George Galloway & Ilan Pappe 3

[wailonkok]

pussy ass jews. not one ccaller willing to confront the truth!!!

[MegaChairmanMao]

Israel is a fascist, apartheid state.

[bpatrice49]

The central problems in attempting to resolve or even improve this situation lay in the occupied territories and Palestinian representation. The settlements constructed and communities forged make removal so difficult. Secondly the utter lack of or worse yet destructive Palestinian representation has only made Israelis more arrogant and asserive and certain that there IS NO PARTNER FOR PEACE. Arafat/Hammas/PLO. They have not allowed a legitimate cohesive palestinian voice to emerge to the world

[sting695]

Ilan Pappe is a true Jewish hero!

[skabudaw1]

ppl like him make me respect jews

[Batavian187]

I'm not Jewish, but I agree with you that the period leading up to the creation of Israel was brutal.

Many atrocities accured on all sides.

We can't say it was a highlight of human existance but we can hope that we can now move beyond these primal and destructive behaviors and settle our differences by dialogue and peaceful means.

[rachidmaroc2k]

But how can we apply dialogue with a regime that says: We want peace, but we'll keep on going attacking "terrorists" a.k.a freedomfighters and actually civilians. Even if we get peace. That means that the largest part of palestine remains 90% jewish. The idea of a jewish palestine can't go along with peace. The muslim and christian Palestinians deserve to return back to their houses (if they're not yet demolished that is). One state for muslim, christian and jewish Palestinians. NO Israel.

[teerath11]

Batavian187 Israeli kills palesitianis are they nazis too? or are you going to say no, when jews went to palestine and trying to remove the people who ever they are out of there country isnt that what hitler was trying to do to the jews in europe, the jews are doing exactly the same thing in palestine but for some reason the occupiers are nazis????????

[Batavian187]

Israeli's kill Palestinian Arabs because there is an active conflict going on between them and groups in Gaza that launch missiles and whatever else at Israeli cities.

Palestinian Jews and Arab Palestinians were both engaged in brutal violence against the other as well as against the British in the British mandate years.

Arab Palestinians tried to kill the Jewish Palestinians and the Jewish Palestinians did the same.

It was a civil war between these two groups and atrocities occurred.

[Batavian187]

The thing is that there were two sides not just one side.

The 1930's and 40's were an age were racial thought and theory were still considered by many to be legitimate.

With the rise of the Nazi's in Germany as the prime example.

These thoughts found fertile grounds in the Palestine and Arab world of those years.

Many Arabs were Nazi collaborators with the Mufti of Jerusalem as a prime example.

[rachidmaroc2k]

That's not the point. If Germany suddenly invades Holland and conqueres half of it, ethnicly cleanses it from all Dutch people and deports Germans to villages that used to be Dutch, then that's a crime against humanity. If the Dutch fight back against this occupying force, by rocketattacks, or whatever, how can you call this terrorism? You can't. UNLESS, the biggest supperpowers in the world support Germany. That happens right now. Israel is the oppressor, but it has the support of the US.

[Batavian187]

Your comparison is not correct and i think i explained it several times already.

Jews were native to Palestine just as Arab Palestinians.

There was no invasion just argueble a slight increase in Jewish migration after the British took the territory from the Ottomans after WW1.

But it's by no way comparable to the scenario you paint by suggesting that Jews were somehow "invading" Palestine.

They were perfectly legal being in the place that they were.

[rachidmaroc2k]

What are you talking about? What about the 800,000 muslim and christian Palestinians that were ethnicly cleansed? What about the fact that there were 5% jews before 1948 on a population of about 4 milion or so, and now there are millions of jews. How is that possible? How is it possible that a town that used to be 90% muslim is now 90% jewish? How about the fact that Israel is now about 90% jewish while it used to be 90% muslim? You call that a slight increase? Thats ethnic cleansing you moron.

[rachidmaroc2k]

What are you talking about? What about the 800,000 muslim and christian Palestinians that were ethnicly cleansed? What about the fact that there were 5% jews before 1948 on a population of about 4 milion or so, and now there are millions of jews. How is that possible? How is it possible that a town that used to be 90% muslim is now 90% jewish? How about the fact that Israel is now about 90% jewish while it used to be 90% muslim? You call that a slight increase? Thats ethnic cleansing you moron.

[Batavian187]

It was a war rachidmaroc2k a civil war.

Many Arabs fled others were forced out Jews were massacred.

You should study the years leading up to Israeli independence.

Both sides comitted atrocities against the other.

[rachidmaroc2k]

I've read Illan Pappe's book. I know everything about it. 800,000 palestinians were driven out of their homes, millions of jews were deported to villages that used to be full of palestinians, etc. If Mexicans in California suddenly say that that's their promised land and Mexico starts deporting millions of Mexicans to california and they call it an independant state and start ethnicly cleansing it from all non-mexicans... will you call that "perfectly legal in the place that they were"?

[rachidmaroc2k]

By the way, HOW can you call it Israeli independence? Independence of what?? Jews drove out 800,000 palestinians from 1948 and destroyed about 200 villages, thousands were killed. Borders were set up. This was a simple case of conquering. It's as if we moroccans would take over parts of Holland and have millions of moroccans come over from Morocco and then call out an "independant" state. That's not a war of independence, that's a simple case of conquering land, murdering, etcetera.

[Batavian187]

Your comparison simply doesn't fit.

Palestine was not a state but simply a British colony and before that an Ottoman province the British ended up giving responsibility of the territory to the UN and they split it into an Arab and Jewish state.

You had Jews and Arabs fighting each other by then.

But what you said about one state,i think that would be the best solution in the future right now it's simply to idealistic let them try and live as peaceful neighbors first.

[rachidmaroc2k]

Israel is an illegal, terrorist state untill the state disappears or untill it lets ALL palestinians come back. Now read what I'm saying, i'm not saying that the jews have to leave, I want them to stay. All I'm saying is, break down those damn borders, put down arms and let all refugees go back to their homes and let's have one state for all of them. BUT, we MUST acknowledge the massacres that happened and we must bring the responsible commanders to justice, just as we did with the nazi's.

[Batavian187]

rachidmaroc2k i don't think Israeli's want to live under Arab rule.

Much like the Arabs do not want to live under Israeli rule.

This is why they fought and are fighting these wars.

If you are talking about borders being lifted then i can see such a thing happening maybe in the future.

A sort of Middle East version of the European Union.

Pre-1948 Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs tried living together.

It didn't work and ended up in countless massacres.

We don't want to repeat that.

[FireFlyWW]

This is simply a perversion of the truth.

Palestinian jews were living peacefully and successfully with Muslims & christians in palestine until the british came in and started importing jews from all over the place in 10-15 years.

Don't call those "palestinian" jews. They were FORIGN people who came from other places.

Stop perverting the facts and try to open your eyes.

[Batavian187]

The problem is that we have a different concept of what a citizen makes.

I don't see how a person coming there and getting citizenship 40 years ago or 400 years ago somehow has more rights then an immigrant that gains citizenship after 10-15 years.

There is also no legal president for it.

Maybe Nazi laws about "Blut und Boden".

But then Jews probably have a lot to go on as well.

Basically Jewish migrants stopped being foreigners the minute they gained Palestinian citizenship.

[hussaiz3]

Lol - "slight increase"

[Batavian187]

Notice how Galloway says Europe instead of THE NAZI's.

They were but one political faction not all Europeans killed 6 million Jews.

And if he spends time READING and LEARNING about the people he calls hero's in the Middle East who are fighting Israel he might discover some similarities between them and the Nazi's.

In fact he might take a small sniff in the crowds who follow him around and discover they are right there.

[rachidmaroc2k]

Actually, there's a BIG similarity between Zionism (Israel) and Nazism. Nazism thinks Der Dritte Reich is for Arians only and Arians have the right to expand their Lebensraum. Zionists think the holy land is for Jews only (that's why they ethnicly cleansed it from Palestinians and aren't allowing refugees to go back) and think that Jews are the chosen people of God, and thus they have the right to conquer land, deport people, etc, for the good of the "Jewish Cause". Sounds like Nazism to me!

[Batavian187]

I have no doubt some extremist Jews think this way.

I think we can all witness some of the human rights abuses that go on in the occupied territories.

However i think that the Israeli state of itself is not racist.

Not more racist then any European country demanding that people become citizens before they are given equal rights under the law.

[rachidmaroc2k]

You think a state that ethnicly cleansed the native population and isnt allowing them to come back because they want to keep it a Jewish state, isn't racist? That's strange. Cuz it's actually almost the very definition of racism. It's racism. It's nazism from another perspective, called the Jewish perspective, which is called zionism. The Palestinians are fighting to get back the land that was stolen from them. Israel is "defending" the terretories that it stole from them, by large scale murder.

[Batavian187]

What do you mean with "native population" ? Both the Jews and Arabs were "native" to the land of Palestine.

[Batavian187]

In fact..the Jews have had a presence in this land about a 1000 years before the first Arab ever entered this land.

[rachidmaroc2k]

That's true obvious. But if you look at it like that then there is no such thing as a native population. It's just simple facts. In 1946 there were 85% muslim Palestinians, 10% christian Palestinians and 5% jewish Palestinians. In 1948, ethnic cleansing cleansed Palestine from 800,000 palestinians, both muslims and christians. THAT's what this conflict is about. Right now, towns that used to be 90% muslim are 90% jewish. How does that happen? By murder and persecution.

[oelole2005]

Ilan Pappe is one of the most honest human beings in the world.

[Batavian187]

Ilan Pappe is a man who has spend to much time in his ivory tower going over historic documents and probably drinking to much and smoking to much while trying to read them.

He has no idea of the reality, and that Palestinians much less Muslims are interested in living at peace with any non Muslim whoever that might be.

These people also do not care about Palestinians they are just an excuse to further Islamo fascism on the world inspired by there book Qu'ran which is like Mein Kampf.

[rachidmaroc2k]

Actually... if there's one1 book that someone could compare to Mein Kampf, it would be the Thora or the Talmud. The Talmud says: "Jews are humans, but we don't call non-Jews that way. Non-Jews are like animals." It also says: "A Jew can rape a non-Jewish girl, but he cannot marry her". The Thora is full of texts that are about the murdering of tribes, the killing of women, the burning of houses, etcetera. Zionism = Nazism.

[Batavian187]

That just shows me you need to talk to a Rabbi before you make ignorant statements.

[Batavian187]

No Jew i know has ever set fire to peoples cars because the peoples disrespected the Torah laws.

Let alone murder people.

Yet this is what we find with Muslims they are beheading,blowing up ,and stealing and destroying everying that does not agree with them.

[Batavian187]

Even in Denmark Muslims are burning cars and stealing because some person drew a picture of what he thinks Muhammed was.

And you issue death threats.

Muslims living in Serbia in the souther province of Serbia, want to take out there own little state.

Stealing it from the Serbs.

[rachidmaroc2k]

Muslims in Serbia? They're being oppressed. Muslims blowing up and destroying American troops in Iraq, cuz they're being occupied. As goes for the Muslims in Palestine, who're being opressed. That's why we fight. The last 100 years, Muslims haven't invaded ANYTHING. Jews though, in 1948, have ethnicly cleansed Palestine from 800.000 Palestinians and have conquered Palestine. Same goes for the English, French, Americans. Everybody, even Muslims, have the right to self-defence when attacked.

[rachidmaroc2k]

Muslims aren't attacking American, British and Israeli's because they don't agree with the Qur'an. We're attacking them because they're occupying and invading us. Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan is a perfect example. Muslims are attacking Israel because you've stolen peoples land. You can't conquer a land and drive people away, and call the same people that try to get back to their land (by force cuz you're blocking them with force) "terrorists" and say you're defending yourself. That's nonsense.

[Tayma]

I LOVE YOU ILAN PAPPY... I have met you in 2005 in the US and loved your lecture.

I am sorry that you have to leave Paletine/Israel to live in England but where ever you are I am sure you'll continue working for JUSTICE..

you are a true HERO.

[johnsmdm]

how can you call him a jew sir?..he's not of our tribe, he's a traitor!..we have been told by God that Zion belongs to us.Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.What have you got to say for yourself?

[Singhjikhalsa]

vote respect-George Galloways party- channel 171 Galloway show tuesday-thursday from 5pm-7pm

[tonykassim]

To both George Galloway and Ilan Pappe thank you for standing up to the oppressors of the 21st century.

May GOD Bless you both for your purity of your hearts and the sincerity of your conscience.

[costabas]

Absolutely Brilliant. Thank you George.

[handfull33]

It takes men of character to stand up to say and do right things. It also takes character to stand up in the face of criticism and still do what is right. When people don't have substance in criticizing people they turn to name calling. To all the fools, try coming at him with something solid. This man is the bravest of the BRAVE. What an amazing JEW!