I think that the philosophical questions of why? or how could God allow? or what was it like back in ancient times? or what will the future be like? heaven? etc... are all examples of questions that any answers of "certainty" delivered by another Christian (whether seemingly Biblical or not) would seem like pat, smug "answers" by one who is young and not reached a certain place of faith despite those uncertainties. Life is hard, sometimes research isn't enough. Faith includes waiting on Jesus.
@EffieReal I don't understand. Are you saying that because I am "young" any definitive answers I provide, whether Biblically sound or not, seem pat and smug? I would quote 1 Timothy 4:12, but that doesn't even apply here. The disciples were MY age, teenagers. Only Peter and Jesus payed the temple tax which was only required of men over the age of 20. I'm not "young" by any Biblical standard, I'm a fully grown man.
@shipleyshipster No, I was saying "young" in the sense of young in the faith. BTW, in the sense of life experience, which doesn't necessarily equate to any age in numbers, anyone can be "young". A "fully grown man" can give "seemingly" Biblical sound answers but be so young as to not have spiritual discernment. Taking a situation of a grieving widow for example and someone "Biblically" counseling her to not grieve since her husband is in Heaven. it might be Biblical, but it's wrong to say.
@shipleyshipster BTW, that was just an extreme example for the sake of illustration and I did not mean either comment to be directly at what I think you "personally" might say. I was just addressing the question of waiting on Jesus for some of our answers not really being the face-palm inducer that you expressed in every situation so I attempted to give a more detailed example. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack.
Nice! Time is created by God. Having the property "eternal" means God is bound by time and therefore can't have that property. Nice logic.
I sometimes use the approach: Time and space are one - Spacetime. Without space there is no time. so what's it mean to be eternal when the universe was a singularity. What's eternal mean when time does not exist?
I usually get a very "stoner" response. He's on a separate plane or dimension man. or he just doesn't need a cause. Why? He just doesn't.
I see your point. I didn't realize that theists had actually created a metaphysical definition to resolve the problem of God being bound by time above.
That is, all the other definitions of eternal depend on time except the metaphysical one
4) Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
So I guess that I'll bow to definition on this one. With a slight chuckle I admit you're right It doesn't follow.
The cause and effect relationship inherent within the material world are not applicable to the eternal nature of God. The reason for this is related to their plains of existence. Everything within the universe, that is, within the bounds of time and space, requires a cause and effect action. God however, exists outside the realm of time and space and is thus not bound by said laws. In fact, for God to exist, this is a necessity. A designer would also be the creator of time and space itself.
Who said anything has to be eternal? Why should we believe anything is?
Time didn't exist before the big bang. Spacetime: no space = no time. So what's eternal mean with out time?
So basically there's a magic-land where any dilemma about God doesn't need to be considered. We know this place exists because God exists and made the universe while living there, and we know God exists because he created the universe. It's am impregnable fortress of assertions... devoid of facts.
@CMrace So basically there's a magic-land where any dilemma about the existence of the Universe doesn't need to be considered. We know this place exists because the Universe exists and it made itself while living there, and we know the Universe exists because it created itself. It's an impregnable fortress of assertions... devoid of facts.
Those are my words re-edited no doubt. Except I don't assert any of that.
Through the hard work of measurement and thought we understand what the universe was like in the past and even infer what it will be like in the future. We don't know by what process it was created, but that's ok with me. I'd rather not argue from ignorance and pretend to be right. That would be arrogant.
The only axioms I hold are identity, consciousness, and existence. After that Logic leads the way.
I think that the philosophical questions of why? or how could God allow? or what was it like back in ancient times? or what will the future be like? heaven? etc... are all examples of questions that any answers of "certainty" delivered by another Christian (whether seemingly Biblical or not) would seem like pat, smug "answers" by one who is young and not reached a certain place of faith despite those uncertainties. Life is hard, sometimes research isn't enough. Faith includes waiting on Jesus.
EffieReal 4 months ago
@EffieReal I don't understand. Are you saying that because I am "young" any definitive answers I provide, whether Biblically sound or not, seem pat and smug? I would quote 1 Timothy 4:12, but that doesn't even apply here. The disciples were MY age, teenagers. Only Peter and Jesus payed the temple tax which was only required of men over the age of 20. I'm not "young" by any Biblical standard, I'm a fully grown man.
shipleyshipster 4 months ago
@shipleyshipster No, I was saying "young" in the sense of young in the faith. BTW, in the sense of life experience, which doesn't necessarily equate to any age in numbers, anyone can be "young". A "fully grown man" can give "seemingly" Biblical sound answers but be so young as to not have spiritual discernment. Taking a situation of a grieving widow for example and someone "Biblically" counseling her to not grieve since her husband is in Heaven. it might be Biblical, but it's wrong to say.
EffieReal 4 months ago
@shipleyshipster BTW, that was just an extreme example for the sake of illustration and I did not mean either comment to be directly at what I think you "personally" might say. I was just addressing the question of waiting on Jesus for some of our answers not really being the face-palm inducer that you expressed in every situation so I attempted to give a more detailed example. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack.
EffieReal 4 months ago
Nice! Time is created by God. Having the property "eternal" means God is bound by time and therefore can't have that property. Nice logic.
I sometimes use the approach: Time and space are one - Spacetime. Without space there is no time. so what's it mean to be eternal when the universe was a singularity. What's eternal mean when time does not exist?
I usually get a very "stoner" response. He's on a separate plane or dimension man. or he just doesn't need a cause. Why? He just doesn't.
CMrace 11 months ago
@CMrace Having an eternal nature doesn't require time. It's all time, he exists past, present, and future. I don't follow your logic.
shipleyshipster 11 months ago
Comment removed
CMrace 11 months ago
@shipleyshipster
I see your point. I didn't realize that theists had actually created a metaphysical definition to resolve the problem of God being bound by time above.
That is, all the other definitions of eternal depend on time except the metaphysical one
4) Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
So I guess that I'll bow to definition on this one. With a slight chuckle I admit you're right It doesn't follow.
CMrace 11 months ago
The cause and effect relationship inherent within the material world are not applicable to the eternal nature of God. The reason for this is related to their plains of existence. Everything within the universe, that is, within the bounds of time and space, requires a cause and effect action. God however, exists outside the realm of time and space and is thus not bound by said laws. In fact, for God to exist, this is a necessity. A designer would also be the creator of time and space itself.
Mechanized0 11 months ago
@Mechanized0
Who said anything has to be eternal? Why should we believe anything is?
Time didn't exist before the big bang. Spacetime: no space = no time. So what's eternal mean with out time?
So basically there's a magic-land where any dilemma about God doesn't need to be considered. We know this place exists because God exists and made the universe while living there, and we know God exists because he created the universe. It's am impregnable fortress of assertions... devoid of facts.
CMrace 11 months ago
@CMrace So basically there's a magic-land where any dilemma about the existence of the Universe doesn't need to be considered. We know this place exists because the Universe exists and it made itself while living there, and we know the Universe exists because it created itself. It's an impregnable fortress of assertions... devoid of facts.
FAIL.
shipleyshipster 11 months ago
Comment removed
CMrace 11 months ago
@shipleyshipster
Those are my words re-edited no doubt. Except I don't assert any of that.
Through the hard work of measurement and thought we understand what the universe was like in the past and even infer what it will be like in the future. We don't know by what process it was created, but that's ok with me. I'd rather not argue from ignorance and pretend to be right. That would be arrogant.
The only axioms I hold are identity, consciousness, and existence. After that Logic leads the way.
CMrace 11 months ago
Lol loved the christian facepalm think your totally right on that part well done. Not sure on the time stuff but great video good job lol.
kepter1 11 months ago