@MyUserNameIsFalse You can't generate any, truly, random numbers in CS, or even arbitrary math. They all depend on a source. The meaning to "random" is simply that you can't expect anyone to know the origin of these numerics, since they are the product of an algorithm which runs on a seeder. This seeder could be anything!
C++ has a function called 'rand'() and a correspondent srand(), which are of the windows.h library.
@MrVirtualCoder The bigger question is does randomness even exist? Or is it simply one of the labels we give something that we can't find order in? Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Is randomness only a matter of perception? If so, then random numbers in CS are just as random to most people as anything else.
@CodeMonkeyCharlie Randomness exists in the abstract world of probability theory, but does it exist in real life?
Pseudo random number generators do a good of simulating randomness, and some of the more sophisticated ones do a very good job, at least by the standards of certain statistical tests. As MrVC said above though, no PRNG is truly random
In quantum mechanics, Physicists treat the position of a particle as a random variable, so I guess they think randomness is real
@MyUserNameIsFalse They don't know why particles operates as they do, but we KNOW that they operate through an algorithm, however complex it may be, it exist. These algorithms are describes as 'natural laws'.
If particles did not operate strictly, that is to say non-random, then there'd be no such thing as Determinism, or other philosophical standpoints which indicates that our actions are determined even in the future.
All CS code operate on rails, hence no randomness.
@MrVirtualCoder My understanding is, that according to quantum mechanics, the locations of particles truly are random. In particular, the current state of a physical system does not determine the future state with perfect accuracy. According to this viewpoint, determinism is actually not valid.
To be fair, I'm not an expert by any means on QM, so you might want to look it up yourself. There is a lecture on youtube where philosopher Shelly Kagan discusses this.
@MrVirtualCoder Regarding CS code, you can see in my post that I said PRNGs "do a good job" of simulating randomness. They are, of course, deterministic.
Also, I would object to the statement that "we know" particles follow a deterministic algorithm. We don't know anything about the physical world with certainty, and one of the dominant theories at the moment, QM, says that the positions of the particles are truly random.
@MrVirtualCoder When I say random, I'm referring to the notion of randomness from mathematical probability theory.
All scientific theories are just mathematical models of reality. Since math contains probability, that allows for the possibility of models that contain random elements. It's completely possible that the best model for the universe contains truly random elements that cannot be further explained. There is nothing irrational about it.
@MrVirtualCoder It's been nice discussing this with you. Unfortunately, my knowledge of QM is not adequate to really discuss this topic further, so this will be my last post. Cheers.
@MrVirtualCoder Right, but in this lecture it seems like he was mentioning a special way to randomly select integers mod p, and I was curious what he was talking about.
Clearly you can just use a PRNG to randomly select an integer between 0 and p-1.
I find it quite fascinating how they can question his Mathematics, as if it were faulty, but not understand simple logic. In this case, that if two sets of numbers are different, they must AT LEAST have a difference which is >=1 & < Max. numeric value.
@athanscorps No. I haven't taken any software engineering classes yet. I learned programming - software engineering - simply for hobby. I watch these videos because they're, to be honest, in-depth.
I'm not being racist about the teacher, i enjoyed listening to him. Was rather getting the impression that he haven't been in America for too long, based on his accent. However, I'm not American either.
Darn, I wish they had posted the first lecture. I'm interested in seeing how you generate the random numbers mod p.
MyUserNameIsFalse 1 month ago
@MyUserNameIsFalse You can't generate any, truly, random numbers in CS, or even arbitrary math. They all depend on a source. The meaning to "random" is simply that you can't expect anyone to know the origin of these numerics, since they are the product of an algorithm which runs on a seeder. This seeder could be anything!
C++ has a function called 'rand'() and a correspondent srand(), which are of the windows.h library.
Hope it helped.
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder The bigger question is does randomness even exist? Or is it simply one of the labels we give something that we can't find order in? Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Is randomness only a matter of perception? If so, then random numbers in CS are just as random to most people as anything else.
CodeMonkeyCharlie 1 month ago
@CodeMonkeyCharlie Randomness exists in the abstract world of probability theory, but does it exist in real life?
Pseudo random number generators do a good of simulating randomness, and some of the more sophisticated ones do a very good job, at least by the standards of certain statistical tests. As MrVC said above though, no PRNG is truly random
In quantum mechanics, Physicists treat the position of a particle as a random variable, so I guess they think randomness is real
MyUserNameIsFalse 1 month ago
@MyUserNameIsFalse They don't know why particles operates as they do, but we KNOW that they operate through an algorithm, however complex it may be, it exist. These algorithms are describes as 'natural laws'.
If particles did not operate strictly, that is to say non-random, then there'd be no such thing as Determinism, or other philosophical standpoints which indicates that our actions are determined even in the future.
All CS code operate on rails, hence no randomness.
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder My understanding is, that according to quantum mechanics, the locations of particles truly are random. In particular, the current state of a physical system does not determine the future state with perfect accuracy. According to this viewpoint, determinism is actually not valid.
To be fair, I'm not an expert by any means on QM, so you might want to look it up yourself. There is a lecture on youtube where philosopher Shelly Kagan discusses this.
MyUserNameIsFalse 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder Regarding CS code, you can see in my post that I said PRNGs "do a good job" of simulating randomness. They are, of course, deterministic.
Also, I would object to the statement that "we know" particles follow a deterministic algorithm. We don't know anything about the physical world with certainty, and one of the dominant theories at the moment, QM, says that the positions of the particles are truly random.
MyUserNameIsFalse 1 month ago
@MyUserNameIsFalse Saying that something is "random" is saying that the cause of such cannot be studied thus being profoundly unscientific.
The problem is you can't fully study what defines the physical world - without presupposing its existence, and its definition.
Many scientists may have different views on how the physical world came to be, hence their theorization will vary.
It's irrational to think that physical things operate randomly.
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder When I say random, I'm referring to the notion of randomness from mathematical probability theory.
All scientific theories are just mathematical models of reality. Since math contains probability, that allows for the possibility of models that contain random elements. It's completely possible that the best model for the universe contains truly random elements that cannot be further explained. There is nothing irrational about it.
MyUserNameIsFalse 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder It's been nice discussing this with you. Unfortunately, my knowledge of QM is not adequate to really discuss this topic further, so this will be my last post. Cheers.
MyUserNameIsFalse 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder Right, but in this lecture it seems like he was mentioning a special way to randomly select integers mod p, and I was curious what he was talking about.
Clearly you can just use a PRNG to randomly select an integer between 0 and p-1.
MyUserNameIsFalse 1 month ago
55:09
I find it quite fascinating how they can question his Mathematics, as if it were faulty, but not understand simple logic. In this case, that if two sets of numbers are different, they must AT LEAST have a difference which is >=1 & < Max. numeric value.
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
I love this guy. He broke the chalk.
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
I think he's Mexican :)
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder He's Greek
athanscorps 1 month ago
@athanscorps Ah. I wonder why these foreigners choose America as to do their lectures.
He can't have been there for too long, since his accent is pretty strong.
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
@MrVirtualCoder He's actually over 30 years in the country...
btw i was wondering r u a berkeley student? what's "foreigners choosing America" is all about.
Education didn't worked for u right?
athanscorps 1 month ago
@athanscorps No. I haven't taken any software engineering classes yet. I learned programming - software engineering - simply for hobby. I watch these videos because they're, to be honest, in-depth.
I'm not being racist about the teacher, i enjoyed listening to him. Was rather getting the impression that he haven't been in America for too long, based on his accent. However, I'm not American either.
MrVirtualCoder 1 month ago
To walk past like ten thousand miles in le line...
WHIREAS 1 month ago