Re: The Miraculous Quran: Embryology and Semen (1 of 2)

[chrstilen5]

Why anyone wanna prove Islam?... prove there to be the bigest asshole ever? The one who will send you to hell. if you dont make him happy, by barking like a dog saying wof wof.

[friede123456789]

the word of allha is wrong, cause the humans makes his own translations. bravo

[Yressa]

@friede123456789 allah couldn't foresee these problems and make an error-free word that is translatable?

[Mkvine]

Even in the other translations you provided, it is not accurate to say that the fluid comes from between the loins and the *breast-bones.* The seminal vesicle which produces the fluid is contained near the loins. It's not anywhere near the "breast-plates."

[angeleye827]

/watch?v=8mCaMnCGmAU

[jdemeulenaer123]

Coran is not reliable and we do not need this shit nor in the West nor in Asia. Keep your shit for yourself buddy. Humor does not belong to it nor to you maybe...

[lasboor2006]

mohammad was also not superstitious about anything and people these days living in r life time have wild balifes i no or herd of many and i no people reading it would agree especialy in the old times



[lasboor2006]

its good to include that when muhammad was reciving or wrighing it. he wasnt tryin to convince any1 that he was a scientist or that he new how babys were formd or about the univers so in short science was not even around for people to make up theorys they would also have quipment and labs or wright about there observation mohammad did none of that if so the koran would be full of randome stuff since he was gussing dont forget that back in 1800 people thought mice came from rice and wild one

[jihadulnafs]

Brother where did you get that arabic word roots from quranic words?

[WomaninCT]

So are you trying to say this is a miraculous statement by the Quran, that people were conceived of semen from the loins and the pelvic region of a woman? I have no ties to the medical community, however, I don't think you need to. This is obvious stuff.

[Gulfporter]

Islam out of Europe.

[kufrtokufr]

Please take a look at this video we made about Acts17Apologetics

copy and past this into your browser to watch after .com:

------> /watch?v=0TwmC8Rd7ck

[Sajofi]

Very good video. It should be spread to the entire western world so they stop mock us.

[StopSpamming1]

Why are Muslims so adamant that there is something scientific in the Koran? A zygote is not created by ejaculation mingling with blood.

Why all this brain acrobatics and contortion if it is obvious that the Koran reflects the knowledge of people of the 7th century? And what of it? Does this endanger the entire religion? Why not concentrate on the messages of Islam instead of trying to defend an inaccuracy?

[AfghDude]

Good video!

[c3aki]

thanks for clarifying

[Zdrazy]

Part 3

You seem intent on maintaining that sperm comes from a region 'between the loins,' but I've refuted this assertion twice now with evidence from a book on reproductive physiology.

Feel free to challenge me, but produce your evidence, as your Qur'an puts it (2:111). Don't simply make unsupported and false claims to support your argument.

As-Salamu 'Alaykum

[ilovegoogledotcom]

@Zdrazy The loin is defined as "the region of the sexual organs, esp. when regarded as the source of erotic or procreative power." If you're not willing to accept that sperm comes from between the loins, then where, my smart lad, does it come from?

[Zdrazy]

@ilovegoogledotcom

Yes, but that's in English. The actual anatomical region of the loins is not the same thing, and the verse says 'between the loins,' not 'from the loins.'

If you read my other posts you'd see that I showed that sperm comes from the epididymides, which are adjacent to the testes. They are not located between the loins.

[StopSpamming1]

If you interpret the books like that, then yes, they are wrong, as bone and muscles begin to develop simultaneously, rather than sequentially (as the Quran tells us) and was directly copied from the ancient Greek doctor Galens hypothesis.

The only one I found wording it like your example was Tom Marino. The other books I found are quite specific about what the error in the Koran is.

[StopSpamming1]

I check my facts. It seems you don't want to accept reality, but prefer a wrong version.

I prefer the truth.

Nobody accepts the "clothing bones with flesh" as being true. I have no idea why you do.

[thefotfoundation]

"Nobody accepts the "clothing bones with flesh" as being true. I have no idea why you do."

Hmmm...

All those textbooks must have been wrong then:

"Mesenchymal cells aggregate throughout the cores of the elongating limb buds to form the limb skeleton. ...

There is evidence that the limb muscles develop from somites and that the cells migrate into the limb bud. Generally, the muscles differentiate on the flexor and extensor sides of the axial skeleton of the limbs..."

continued...

[thefotfoundation]

The orientation of the joints, muscles and limbs is due to the rotation of the limbs during weeks 6-8. The muscles form their connections to the limbs prior to rotation...

Recheck your facts.

I give you back your words:

"I check my facts. It seems you don't want to accept reality, but prefer a wrong version.

I prefer the truth."

[StopSpamming1]

Why don't people check the facts before posting a video?

Why would you expect and want science in a spiritual book?

The Koran gets it wrong, as the described order of the formation of an embryo is false, it misses the female egg, sperm does not become an embryo and gets the order of creation of flesh and bones wrong.

It's a book of poetry and not science. Twisting words does not help.

[thefotfoundation]

"Why don't people check the facts before posting a video?" true for comments also.

The order of embryological development is correct in the Quran, including the description of "clothing bones with flesh" which is accurate.

The Quran is actually not a book of poetry as Arabs are unable to categorize the linguistic structure with that of all known poetry and I agree twisting words does not help.

[MrGrandDragon]

You need to and HAVE to show us evidence to suggest Mohammed copied his ideas from a Companion or the Greeks...

We have no hadith suggesting any correlation between the knowledge of other people being influenced in the Qur'an, even fable infant stories are not the same.

[thefotfoundation]

There are many that say that Quranic embryological information is copied from Galen but there are many problems with this idea. Two I mention:

Firstly you have to show that the Quran states exactly what Galen stated, but the Quran doesnt repeat the errors that Galen made. There are many Muslim works that criticize Galens work.

Secondly you would have to should where and how Muhammad (pbuh) would have got this knowledge and how he was able to distinguish the error from the correct information.

[LothairOfLorraine]

The criteria you hope to set isn't relevant. Galen's word is similar enough to make the connection likely, so inculchating exactly what Galen had written is unnecessary. Also, since the historical connection is pluasible, the 'where' and 'how' the compilers got ahold of it is not important. Lastly, I don't see how the compilers of the Quran actually separated facts from fiction.

[pakmanjonez]

good job copy and pasting.

iv actually read up on the comparison between Galen and what the Quran says. They are both different. Galen was proven to be wrong. Can you prove the same with the Quran?

[MrGrandDragon]

That is not a contradiction. Why don't you appreciate content and context? The two verses are not the same.

Al-Quran 32:5 indicates that a period required for all the affairs to go up to Allah (swt), is a thousand years of our reckoning.

Al-Quran 70:4 means that the period required for angels and the spirits to ascend unto Allah (swt) is fifty thousand years.

The period for two different acts need not be the same thus no contradiction.

[MrGrandDragon]

Al Baqara in my simple reading has NOTHING to do with Human embryology since the verse read in Context is speaking of a an event mentioning Hamlet...

[pakmanjonez]

wait a minute - nutfa, alaqa, mudagha, adaam, and DRESSING THE BONES WITH MUSCLES?

how did it go from arabic to english all of the sudden? instead of proving ur point i think you have disproved it bro. the 5th stage is made up!

[thefotfoundation]

Please provide the actual complete hadith references or quote the hadith directly to substantiate your claim, it will them be looked at with credibility.

[MrGrandDragon]

In any case if you want to know more about those stages and the significance of those days mentioned in the Hadith go to:

islamicmedicine(dot)org/embryo­engtext(dot)htm

[kevluigi]

I did have a question for fot. If we were to take the interpretation of tariab meaning pelvic region and such, muhammad asad translates the previous verse as seminal fluid, although the literal translation is gushing fluid. It seems ambiguous as to whether this refers to both the man and woman. If it does, do you tend to think the fluid is only for men or perhaps the follicular fluid or other fluid used by women as well? However, these fluids don't seem like gushing do they?

[thefotfoundation]

Interesting question. I could quite easily suggest how the fluids could be gushing. But I would probably like to look at the word that is translated as gushing to look for what this word may mean in detail.

But for discussion sake: when the follicle and follicular fluid are released hey would inevitably gush forth from the ovary. In fact a percentage of women actually feel the moment of ovulation.

[thefotfoundation]

The science is the Quran is demonstrable, but if you want to belittle and dismiss rather than examine it, that is actually fine.

But to go onto metaphysical "proof" is absurd and I dont agree that it is relevant to the topic.

Can you prove that Paul spoke to Jesus (pbuh)?

As if by doing so (which I would like to see you do by the way) that would make any difference to the topic of Science in Scripture.

[thefotfoundation]

Should read: The science IN the Quran is demonstrable, but if you want to belittle and dismiss rather than examine it, that is actually fine.

[kevluigi]

I never even talked about this. Why don't you address what I said?

[thefotfoundation]

Its unfortunately a typical ploy to avoid meaningful discussion.

It maybe well intentioned but a superficial examination of the question presupposes that God or Angels talking to people needs to be witnessed to be "real".

Its bizzare.

[locustzombelovr]

I hope u know that there is no actual translation! All ur original documents of the Quran were burned! At least Christianity has actual written history. Ur basing ur logic on nothing. U have no strong base.

[thefotfoundation]

All original documents of the Quran were burned? Hmmm must be learning from the Acts17 School of Islam. The lack of basic knowledge is astounding.

Tell me locust what is the oldest complete Bible you have?

Tell me did Jesus (pbuh) speak to his disciples in Greek or do you have an Aramaic Bible?

"U have no strong base"... I dont even know why I bother sometimes.

[kevluigi]

Your stating that the Greeks knew this means nothing. There are many things the Greeks "knew" but turned out to be wrong. Also, Greek knowledge was doubtfully present in the Arabian peninsula until post-Islam where the these works were translated. Not only would the burden of proof be on you to say that he got this info from reading Aristotle or what not, but it is highly more likely that he never even heard of this person.

[thefotfoundation]

Hi Atom, Welcome.

Its seems from your response that you have not seen part two of the video.

1) I do not have a favoured translation as I posted many.

2) I did not say that the verse is about the male penis supplying sperm (as I hold the verse applies to the Male Sulb and the Female Tra'aib).

4) Therefore the verse talks about a fluid from man and a fluid from woman. So the example from the Greeks that semen causes pregnancy is mis-leading. Aristotle held that there was NO womens "semen"...

[thefotfoundation]

...you can check that by reading page 72 of Encyclopedia of birth control By Vern L. Bullough (google books).

Hence the Quran in this case clarifies the error within Greek knowledge.

I do agree that world history did not start with Islam. However I do take objection to simply referring to Greek knowledge as the sources for Quranic statements without establishing:

1) How the knowledge that the Greeks had came to Muhammad (pbuh) and

2) How he was able to sift out the incorrect materail.

[Jeremias1111]

Hi fot, long time no see!

I notice that you changed your position on scientific miracles in the quran. I liked the former position not to claim miracles but the possibility of the quran being correct more.

Regarding your question:

1) According to Islamic tradition a companion of Mohammed, Harith Ibn Kalada, was a medic trained in Judishapur/Persia. Since Galenic medicine was state of the art at that time, he will have been familiar with it.

Mohammed just needed to have a chat with him.

[LothairOfLorraine]

Not even him exclusively. If Galenic medicine was commonly taught in Persia, then the conenction is more than plausible, and the miraculous nature of the verses is severly diminished, even refuted.

Unfortunately for Muslims, all of this is true and that have placed far too much apologetic energy into an approach that attempts to appeal to the western mind, yet only impales itself on the horns of the bull.

[MrGrandDragon]

You are funny.

Can you provide evidence to show that Mohammed (pbuh) conversed with a Persian chap in the 7th century and borrowed this idea form him just so he can add it in the Qur'an that he supposedly wrote even though he was illiterate?

Anyway amazing video bro, the detail you went through it very enlightening. To be honest I think there are various opinions which can be valid depending on your translation. The problem occurs when people dont try and look at a variety of translations

[thefotfoundation]

Hi Jeremias, It has been a while. I dont think that my position has changed and if your description of my "former" position is how you saw it, then I dont believe that the two views are necessarily different.

As for the common claim that Muhammad (pbuh) got medical information from Harith Ibn Kalada, this raises for you a number of issues:

continued...

[thefotfoundation]

Here are two points for now:

1) Why did none of the literate learned opponents of Islam who also knew this doctor Harith Ibn Kalada not expose Muhammad (pbuh) as a fraud getting his Quran from ibn Kalada?

Note: Al Nadr ibn al Harith was the son of Hairth Ibn Kalada and an ardent opponent of the Muslms.

2) If you going to make the accusation of plagarism you must demonstrate what was copied, and account for the differences between Galen and Quranic information.

All the best, fot

[thefotfoundation]

Jeremias, If you scan this comments section you will see other implausible ideas that are expounded as credible:

e.g. "If Galenic medicine was commonly taught in Persia"

I mean even now medicine is not commonly taught anywhere, the further we go back on history the more learning of any kind becomes the privilege of the rich and far from "commonly taught".

But these statements are, along with your above theory, attempts at conjecture to create doubt to justify the persons pre-theory.

[Jeremias1111]

1. "commonly taught" - Well, dont claim that everybody knew about Galenic medicine. But I claim that every medic trained in Persia knew Galenic medicine. t was state of the art of that time.

2. "Al Nadr ibn al Harith" - He even was a medic himself, wasnt he?

If Nadr told the people that Mohammeds statements match Galen as known by Nadr and his father, how would that expose Mohammed? People would not be surprised that Allah and Galen, the greatest authority on medicine, match, would they?

[Jeremias1111]

3. But now we can see the shortcomings of the quranic description and see that this is in line with the state of the art of that time.

The quran does not mention anything that is not visible to the eye: Not the single sperm cell, not the egg, "mudgha" as "chewed substance" matches the visible chorion-amnion cavity much better than the embryo of that time.

[Jeremias1111]

Btw, long time since your last video - same with me I have to admit. Do you plan on some?

Best

Jeremias

[thefotfoundation]

I dont know bro, I always seem to be busy. I remember once offering to look up a word for you and not following that up.

I always have ideas about videos but fitting it in seems to be the hard bit.

Are you an Athiest (believe there is not God) or an Agnostic (unsure if God exists)?

Personally I dont believe Athiests have any claim to rational superiority at all.

I like talking to people with different views even if we disagree, as long as there is civility.

All the best,

fot

[thefotfoundation]

3. Of course I completely disagree with your statement. Firstly you continue to assert the similarities of Galenic and Quranic information, without demonstration/evidence of copying or explanation for differences.

Secondly your claim about description I do not agree with, despite watching your video on this topic.

[thefotfoundation]

1. I am glad you disagree with what some say about the wide availability of galenic embryology in Arabia.

2. You miss the point. If this knowledge that Muhammad (pbuh) claimed was from God was known and taught by the father of an opponent of Islam then firstly discredit the claim and secondly not be extraordinary knowledge.

Matching Galen isnt enough as so could others i.e. Ibn Kaladas son.

So your whole preposition is based upon trying to find an origin of this knowledge based on conjecture.

[Eopyk]

Well the Byztanies andf Greeks (Who all spoke Greek more or less ) did leave alot loan words in Classic Arabic and also the fact tha the Quran have all correct parts of Greek science but also it's wrongs. Second of all Classical Arabic is dead language Modern Standard Arabic is based on it to an extent but still diffrent(espicaly in the phonology) and the Arabic ''dialects'' that are for the most part linguisticaly diffrent languages the only thing that is classical is the written language.

[SumayahsIslam]

Did you even watch the video? How much clearer can both the video and the Qur'an get? Seriously...

[Eopyk]

Gah YT glitches I have to post a shorter version without quotes I guess.

Yes I did plus reading some comments in part two he says that it is a fact that ejaculation does not come from the testicles and this not true and you expect me to take this serious ? It is the result of sexual stimulation and you eventualy shoot out semen containing sperm from the testicels. Or he saying that even if Islam was proven wrong he would still belive unless I do not missunderstand him.

[thefotfoundation]

Eopyk, you need to get some basic, I repeat basic human biology education. The ejaculate does not, I repeat not come from the testicles.

The testicles produce sperm which is then transported to the seminal vesicles. Then when when the semen is ejaculated it comes from this place. No sperm is ejaculated from the testicles. Thats absurd.

Is that why you use the word "eventually" in your comment?

The question about the verse isnt where sperm comes from but where the ejaculate comes from.

[thefotfoundation]

You say: "Or he saying that even if Islam was proven wrong he would still belive unless I do not missunderstand him. "

What do you take people for? You arrogantly assume that people believe blindly without any rational. Typical of some athiests, who truly are irrational.

I would suggest that before you critique this video you actually watch it, perhaps then you would make less erroneous assumptions about it.

[Eopyk]

You saidso unless I did not get your video comment in part incorrect.

[Zdrazy]

Part 1

"The testicles produce sperm which is then transported to the seminal vesicles. Then when when the semen is ejaculated it comes from this place."

I see you're still reiterating the same old, shall we say, 'untruths' in order to defend your God, Mr. fot.

I suppose it must be a source of considerable cognitive dissonance to have the 'infallible word of God' proven to be erroneous, but here I go again...

[Zdrazy]

Part 2

As I stated before, refer to a book on reproductive physiology. The one I refered you to before can be viewed for free on GoogleBooks: "Knobil and Neill's physiology of reproduction, Volume 1"

Page 783: "The muscle is well developed in the cauda, from where emission of stored sperm occurs at ejaculation."

I can PM you an image of the location of the cauda if you want, since it's not letting me post it, or Google it. But the cauda is located in the under portion of the testes.

[thefotfoundation]

I dont accept your first assumption about greek loan words in classical Arabic unless you provide some linguistic evidence.

Secondly, the claim that Classical Arabic is a dead language when millions read (Quran) and write and learn that language (Fusha Arabic) today is absurd. Its not like Biblical Greek or Hebrew which only a handful of Scholars speak.

Thirdly, dialects are not different languages. English contains many many dialects are there then different English languages?

[Eopyk]

Well the written language and what you have is Modern Standard Arabic that is very much based on Classical Arabic  but it is not the same as MSA especialy in the phonetic aspects where Classical Arabic hade more laterals phonems (L like sounds) for an example. Also the Arabic ''diealects'' are in some cases as far apart as for an example Spanish and Italian, Morrocan Arabic is very hard fro Iraqi Arabs to understand for an example they are so diffrent that should be seen as diffrent tounges

[Eopyk]

Greek loan words ahem there many like falsafa just for an example. .. I mean do you think classical arabic was free from loans ?

[muslim610]

Excellent video bro,jazak Allah khir....  "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." Stephen Hawking English cosmologist and physicist (1942 - )

[thefotfoundation]

BarakhAllahFiKum Akhi. Salaam, fot