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  • If you believe we and our universe are the products of an unknown and unknowable supernatural creation source then you are being honest. If you believe we are the products of a supernatural creation source and you insist on defining and characterizing it by calling it your "god" then you are being willfully and grossly DISHONEST. And only an irresponsible and weak minded person would claim to know and understand what cannot be known or understood and even have the gall to name it.

  • America has survived (Barely) by somehow living by christian standards. By some huge coincidence more atheists have been popping up here as the government declines?

  • Going to church does not make someone a christian. This report is incorrect. Most people in the western world consider themselves christian and do believe in Jesus whether they attend church on a regular basis or not at all.

  • news like this, plus debates on religion clearly show that religion has lost its power it once had. 50 years ago it would have been unthinkable.

  • just a small fact,mormoms are christans

  • @shogyi nope

  • @shogyi nope

  • glad to see WESTERN Christianity dying, no more HOLY WARS, and more children are saved from pedophile priests!

  • @Sasukekillsitachi and saved from jebus camp

  • I'm proud to help lower the percentage of christians in America : )

  • while christianity is going down hundreds of people become muslim everyday 0.o

  • The most educated people tend to be the least religious, and that's a fact.

    What does that tell you about all the religious ppl out there? They are more likely to be under-educated.

  • America, the most Christian nation in the world needs to evangelize itself.

  • Lol ...true that Religion is dying , well to be honest the christian religion is dying but the Muslim religion seems to be increasing , must be a sheer numbers thing though.

  • @IHATEATHEIST2 WHAT? Muslim religion growing? You have no data to prove that, AND everybody can pierce Islam with a spear by asking one question: Why do women hide their hair? Why? Really, why? What is the problem with showing hair?

  • @trppmdm

    Author Samuel Huntington predicts that Islam will overtake Christianity early in the 21st century. By the year 2025, Islam will have 5% more adherents than will Christianity. The U.S. Center for World Mission estimated in 1997 that Christianity's total number of adherents is growing at about 2.3% annually. This is approximately equal to the growth rate of the world's population. Islam is growing faster: about 2.9% and is thus increasing its market share.

  • @trppmdm

    Author Samuel Huntington predicts that Islam will overtake Christianity early in the 21st century. By the year 2025, Islam will have 5% more adherents than will Christianity. The U.S. Center for World Mission estimated in 1997 that Christianity's total number of adherents is growing at about 2.3% annually. This is approximately equal to the growth rate of the world's population. Islam is growing faster: about 2.9% and is thus increasing its market share.

    Hope that helps.

  • @IHATEATHEIST2 They are facts. A fact can change every second.

  • @trppmdm

    Well I gave you some data ..yes facts can change every second , but this is a long term projection based on population growth in certain religionised teritories .....so I think it's unlikely to change this second.

    As to why Muslin Woman cover their bodies ( note not just their heads) look it up on google

  • america was like 90 percent white in 1948

  • I love watching videos about this subject i get to see fellow atheists comment on the video and shit on religion

  • Way to go America. 12% down, only 77% more to go. you can do it, we know you can!

  • @neuromatiker

    thank u for your words of encouragement

  • @neuromatiker lmao

  • @neuromatiker Looking back further, at the gradual decline of the church from Galileo's time to the present, it's clear that religion is steadily dying. Nowadays, priests might be molesting children, but they can't put you under house arrest. The rate should increase as people realize they don't have to claim to be christian. Today we've come to the milestone that being religious isn't even considered to be "cool" & the silly taboo against publicly criticizing religious irrationality has fallen.

  • Fuck i wish Pisslam was on the decline, Pisslam fucks the world more than any other religion ever could. The bastards keep multiplying like germs. Ex-Muzzie.

  • Comment removed

  • If it weren't for the muslims the 77% chart would have probably been around 20%.

  • whats wrong with being not christian?

  • At this economy, 10% of your paycheck isn't worth it.

  • the internet made me an atheist

  • Atheism is the Natural way to be. We are born without a belief in gods, but are slowly socialized to learn and even become indoctrinated about gods, depending on our environment.

  • Most Christians in the US are too obsessed with trying to ensure their influence over American society is untouched. But fortunately more Americans are waking up. If Christians keep up trying to promote tyrannical ideas for America, and promoting bigotry, I can safely assume they'll be a minority by the end of the century here in the US. I was a Christian for most of my life and my nuclear family is devoutly Christian, but I woke up and I am an Atheist now.

  • Hey guys hey! hey... how many Atheist fly Planes into Buildings? or kill Abortion Doctors.

  • Actually , there are more christians now. There are also more of others too because of our much larger population than in 1948. This is a bogus and inaccurate report because the overall population growth since 1948 has not been taken into account. We are even more of a christian nation now because we have many more christians and christians today are more socially and politically active now than in 1948 too. This video is simply wishful thinking for atheists and anti christians.

  • @KripDrip

    cont.

    "This is a bogus and inaccurate report because the overall population growth since 1948 has not been taken into account."-- I disagree, the overall population growth is irrellevant, the poll(or whatever it was) deals with the percentage of people who identify themselves as christians in the overall population in '48 and in the overall population in '08.

    This video is simply wishful thinking for atheists and anti christians.--Just sad :(

  • @KripDrip There are so many things wrong with what you just said. It's the percentage that matters, not the overall number of Christians. If the percentage of Christians is declining, then Christianity is declining. And if the population is growing so much then the growth of the number of atheists is extremely large. How is the video bogus? It just states the facts regarding the percentages without even drawing conclusions from those facts. Your conclusions don't even make sense.

  • @KripDrip It's a matter of time regardless. Science and reason will ALWAYS win.

  • the world's growing up.

  • ATHEISM FTW!

  • There's more 12 percent non-religious people in the U.S. A lot of them down admit to being non-religious because of fear of persecution.

  • If USA only had proper schools and proper education there would be no organised religions there at all anymore. Knowledge kills superstition.

  • Control the masses through fear aka religion.

  • And how many Americans follow the Roman Pantheon? Almost zero? So, if we continue this trend 2000 years, maybe there will be almost no Christians! Damn, that's too long, what can we do to speed this up?

  • @dabigq You don't have to do a damn thing to speed up the decline. Once the baby boomer generation start dropping like flies, the decline will start accelerating.

  • Why are there so many variations of religions all around the world ?? It is because they are all made up - man made fantasy stories and delusions. churches are a waste of building materials and utilities.

  • @HonestMan395 - Hi there , I just want to say that America is very different on many levels than the rest of the western world. From our beginnings to present day we have many differences than the rest of the world. Christian faith in america most likely will not decline like in europe or england because it is so a part of our structure as a society and our way of thinking regarding local and world views. We have our sins as a nation , but abandoning faith in God is not one of them.

  • Actually , there are more christians now. There are also more of others too because of our much larger population than in 1948. This is a bogus and inaccurate report because the overall population growth since 1948 has not been taken into account. We are even more of a christian nation now because we have many more christians and christians today are more socially and politically active now than in 1948 too. This video is simply wishful thinking for atheists and anti christians.

  • @marleonetti5 Typical of christians. If you don't agree with something, Rubbish it or just ignore it.

    If Gallup had come out and said that christianity was growing, you would have claimed it was completely accurate.

    This is not wishful thinking. It is a trend throughout the western world. America is just a little slower than everybody else, but you're getting there.

  • @marleonetti5 Do you realize most members of Gen Y don't even go to church. You'll have even fewer deciples in the next generation.

  • @Cenamark2 - You can't really measure how many christians there are by how many people are in church buildings. Many christians believe that most of the churches today are much more concerned with collecting large amounts of money then following Jesus. There has always been believers who did not attend church on a regular basis because of the corruption that seems to exist in organized church structures that eventually lose true spirituality and are simply "religious" in nature.

  • On a non-related subject: the average education level of Americans has also been increasing since 1948...

    ;-p

  • @Unicron4ever It is a fact throughout the world. As education levels rise, Religion dies.

  • Adoration of the Zombie may well be in decline but the Moon-worshippers are certainly doing their bit to keep idiocy alive and kicking

  • So the Roman Catholics are Christians (and, of course, I agree) but the Orthodox are a "non-Christian religion"? Is that supposed to make any sense?

  • @Troul478 Since when did religion make sense?

  • @mythicalhell At least it makes far more sense than your question...

  • @Troul478 Ever hear of a rhetorical question? Na, of course you haven't. If you did you wouldn't have made a dumb ass comment.

  • @mythicalhell Sure, sure.

  • It's because of the actions of a few, their like cults in that they devalue other human beings, they constantly give other religions and atheists a bad rep acussing them of all the worlds attrocities despite evidence to the contrary and try to undermine education and revise history. I hope this doesn't affect the good, devout, hardworking foreward thinking christians who want to help humanity.

  • @ganados0

    I have no problem with private Christians.

    The thing is that being good and hardworking doesn't require the "Christian" or "devout" part. Nor do I put much stock in self-identifying as Christian as though it were genuinely the source of their goodwill or humanity.

  • I believe the Internet may accelerate the inexorable movement to rationality. It's not so easy to bully atheists into silence on the Internet, or sanction nonbelievers. This is why they will use votebots against atheist posts, try to have them suspended or removed on technicalities, or anything else they can think of. In their minds, anything is justified since immortal souls are at stake.

  • @DandAinTac

    Hah!

    That makes them sound nobler than they are.

    No, they have to make an effort to save souls because if they don't their boss is going to toss them in the lake of fire. They don't really give a damn if a few nonbelievers are tortured eternally so long as they've got their own place in heaven.

  • @dhx84 Well maybe so. Certainly in some cases. But there are fundies out there who are truly sincere in their beliefs. Ironically, I believe they are more dangerous than the cynical ones who are just using religion toward their own personal ends.

  • I expect to see some sort of attempted backlash orchestrated by theists in positions of power. This is what's behind the mantra "we are a Christian Nation"--they want to make it so by force of law. Expect to see attempts to silence and punish atheists and nonbelievers who are open and try to persuade others--this could happen on a number of levels, such as Christian bosses firing atheist subordinates, or Republican administrations working with fundies to try to chip away at the 1st Amendment.

  • America is on the right track I see! I hope the 21st century will bring the USA the same as the 20th century brought Europe! And who know's the developping world will undergo the same in the 22nd century, that would be awsome! Let's stop believing in fairy tales and get over to serious bussines.

  • Losing our world's religions will be like the moon landing, "a small step for man, a giant leap for mankind."

  • it's not really that i'm glad we have fewer christians. It's not really that i'm glad people are becoming more atheistic. It's just that that's what it happens when you give people education and the ability to communicate.

    As far as I see it, as soon as the percentages for every religion will move toward the same number, people will become more accepting, and they'll stop arguing about their religion, but rather about important stuff... like running out of oil and public debt...

  • Where are they getting these results?

  • Its called the buy bull for good reasons.

  • I do believe that Christianity is in decline in the USA, but it is too late for me.

    I am 50 years old and will not live in the US to enjoy the time when being an atheist is fully accepted.

    As soon as I have reached retirement age, I will move to a place where 12/25 is just another day, or just a day to make money, overtly.

    I cannot stand being slighted. I resent "In God We Trust" on the greenback profoundly.

  • @betalover1 i celebrate christmas as a matter of tradition and to be with family. don't let the christians co-op and ruin christmas :)

  • @betalover1

    Christian stole the solstice celebrations for their own political purpose.

    I am atheist and I enjoy those vacations with my friends and family. ;)

  • @betalover1 ooo so do I may thinking friend, I mark the word gOD off of every bill that passes through my hands. Sometimes when I am in line somewhere with a god bill I will fold it almost in half so the crease is on the o of god then rip a tiny hole where the word god should of never been placed to begin with. Sometime when I am smoking I will put the lit cig over the word god and burn it out. it makes a nice impression and if enough people deface it in this way who knows it may get taken off.

  • I am a Seventh Day Adventist and I can't believe they don't have us in the category with protestants! According to them we are a non-Christian group????? That's insane!

  • it's the great falling away. may god have mercy on us all.

  • @wp4866

    May you learn proper grammar.

  • @Drazhenko Let him keep the grammar. Lets pray (just kidding) that he learns critical thinking and what the scientific method is all about.

  • 77% That's still too much. don't people realize that the church has nothing to do with religion. The church just wants more money so they can expand their "Christian Empire" across the globe

  • That's good news if it doesn't imply a rising in islam.

  • @jimalbi welcome to the party .. you can join any islamconverts group.. everyday there's a convert or two...

  • @minute1981

    Here (Quebec), catholicism is in serious decline since the 60s.

    Churches are sold, demolished or converted to library, scene or appartments.

    Religion is no more teached in school and all our clergy men are getting very old. There is no more priest ordinated and soon, nobody will still be available to run the remaining empty churches.

    Only one problem remain: islam practice is seriously rising. The reason: massive islamic immigration.

  • @jimalbi okay.. you're right.. it's one reason.. but..aren't you forgetting something?...maybe you WANT to forget.

  • @jimalbi To be honest Catholicism isn't Christianity if you ask me.

  • @jshjamaar The awesome thing is that if people are beginning to reject Christianity Light. They're most certainly not going to adhere to hard lined Christianity. In 100 years Yahweh and Jesus will be chilling with Zeus and Thor in the Dead Deities Club.

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  • that will always be 77% more than in Europe, but it doesn't mean religion will end. most people have a need to believe in something "meaningful". So there will be "new religions" which will take over the old ones much like Christianity did with paganism. However, I think Christianity will remain with us long after we're long gone.

  • Its tough to be living as a practising Christian in America.

  • @nasranithomman Give me a break. Get over your delusions of being oppressed.

  • If one stands with David Duke, then beware for you will be held accountable of supporting his hatred and lies before God.

  • I would argue that 77% of people say that they're Christians when asked. But what percentage of those people actually understand Christian teaching or attend church services? If you conducted a similar poll of New Yorkers as to whether or not they believed the Yankees would win the next world series you'd probably get a similar percentage, even among those who don't actually follow baseball.

  • The rate of decline is too slow in my view. I'm atheist and proud of it! It's time to come out of the "religious closet" and stop being so damn polite!

  • Chruch attendance is only around 33%, which means less then have of stated Christians in America attend church regularly.

    In 2009 6100 Christians places of worship filled for bankruptcy. over 21,000 churches in America over the past century have been converted from religious to private use. the most common is for higher education. (which is ironic considering that churches brainwashed and discouraged education! :D)

  • @NORTHERNKONFLIKT - You must be a product of public education to make a statement that churches "discourage" education. On the contrary, private Christian schools have the highest percentages of student who go on to college - there often used as models for public schools to replicate! Churches established the first schools in America (both Princeton and Harvard were religious institutions). Churches educated most Americans up to the 20th Century - altered only by public school compulsion.

  • @bnicewilly Well of course Christian Schools have high rates of college attendance. They're mostly full of upper middle class kids who'd be going to College no matter what.

  • @HoSayLiaoLah HAVE U EVER READ THE BIBLE? IF U HAD THEN U WOULDN'T TALK SUCH NONSENSE. U SEEM 2 TAKE A TINY PIECE OF SCRIPTURE + THEN PROCEED 2 THINK U KNOW WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT! IF U BOTHERED 2 READ NEW TESTAMENT U WOULD SEE THAT WE CHRISTIANS GIVE WILLINGLY, NOT BY THE LAW, BUT I DOUBT U WILL UNDERSTAND...

  • @The3in1trinity

    I am a Buddist but I do have the honour of reading the Bible. The Earth is created 6000 years ago, huh? People live to 800 years old, huh? A guy managed to collect all animals, 1 male and 1 female and squeezed them onto a ship, huh? There is so much rain that the whole planet is flooded, huh? Eating an apple will give u knowledge, huh?

  • @HoSayLiaoLah oh great grasshopper telll us more of your great widom we wish to hear your deep thoughts of life and answers to questions.huh?

  • @The3in1trinity

    and then in the old testament it says you can stone disobedient children and kill people, then it says thou shall not kill.... i see a paradox

  • @HoSayLiaoLah GIVE ME YOUR MONEY OR BURN IN HELL

  • Quantum physics and cosmology are in tune with Hindu-Buddhist concepts of consciousness as an integral part of reality. Time, energy and galaxies come out of the Big Bang, but modern theorists hypothesize other Big Bangs, other dimensions beyond our time/space horizon-- the universe is much larger than you realize. Science certainly doesn't see evidence for the "Father/King" creator promoted by conservative culture warriors motivated by political ambition rather than honest curiosity.

  • @luvdomus

    Hinduism is utter nonsense, with its polytheism, creation stories, divine wars and battles, belief in reincarnation and eternal soul, mountains that house gods et cetera.

    Religions are bullshit, and there's no reason to cling to such irrational obfuscations in this day and age.

  • @UserNameForYeeTube No religion is utter nonsesense, since, as products of human culture they express human fears and yearnings in metaphorical ways, though they can become so tangled that they defeat their own purpose. Hinduism has many sects, some more rutted than others, but religion can still speak to us on many levels. Many Hindus are scientists , whereas American Evangelical fundamentalism has spawned an entire anti-intellectual movement.  Science can generate its own unexamined dogmas.

  • Religious stories can express human sentiments, but so does "Hansel and Gretel". Difference is nobody bases their lives around the German folk story or uses it as a basis for policy.

    Antireligious criticism rarely demands that all beliefs must be suppressed and folk stories forgotten, but that they shouldn't influence public policy - and that hopefully in the future mankind would free itself from unnecessary superstition.

  • @UserNameForYeetube, Hinduism is a monastic faith NOT a Polytheistic faith, why do so many people get this wrong?

  • Hinduism is a pantheistic, monotheistic, monistic, panentheistic, pantheistic and indeed monastic, dualistic, nondualistic, atheist or agnostic; depending on which school you are referring, during which time period, from which standpoint, from which angle, with which preconceived ideas or for whichever reason you are examining; religion, belief system, philosophy, culture, language or national heritage.

    What it is for certain is a huge waste of time and a great source for division and conflict

  • @UserNameForYeeTube

    Only if you take it literally. Much philosophy can be learned from Hinduism.

  • @Reaperlastfm

    Certainly, but there's no reason to involve religion in what you take from it. If I think Jesus said something smart or good or inspiring there's no reason for me to believe he was the son of god who killed himself to appease his father who was mad at something he created himself or something, or in talking snakes etc.

    Take the good and leave the bad. Appreciate the poetry and moral teachings and abandon the superstition and irrationality.

  • @UserNameForYeeTube

    Of course, that's what I was saying :)

    And by the way:

    foxnews . com/us/2011/01/25/churches-end­-nigh/#content

    The End Is Nigh: Church Foreclosures Surging :)

  • I am glad that the education system is working. Why is it the less educated are more likely to believe in a god being? The third world countries are very religous.

  • Well americans may soon come back to religeon looking at the current state of economy, praying to a dreamed up deity is perhaps better than rolling over and dying. Maybe hope is all America needs because the future aint pretty for americans

  • what ! america an athiest country they just got a habit of calling themselves christains ! that explains the high murder rates , sexuall crimes , imorality , drunkeness , ect no belive in god so why not do what you like ?

  • Americans have been very turned off to religion by so called "conservative" Christians and their narrow-minded intolerance, scientific illiteracy and belligerent attitude. The influence of advanced scientific discoveries and the insights provided by Eastern philosophies like Buddhism have given Americans more enlightened ways to see themselves and their world. Progressive Christians have retained people's respect, but as for you "Born-Agains"-- you blew it.

  • @luvdomus:

    Born agains have respect, it's just the conservative "Christians".

  • @ogirv101 Born-agains and conservative christians overlap so much they are simply two factions of the same movement. Born agains more "magical" in their thinking, conservatives more scheming for political gain but willing to distort science with disinformation.

  • 77%, it was 73% last year, I'm guessing that it's actually slowly increasing... Compared to 1948, it is very low, but America is still very religious, 90% believing in God, and most of us being devout. I think it's a pretty good thing, Christianity has played a major role in unifying and creating great nations in western civilization, and so far, the most religious country of western civilization is the most scientific (weird). US produces 1/3 of all scientific advancement globally.

  • @ogirv101

    You are drawing links between 2 unrelated facts. You have the most scientific advancemnt because you have the economy and the sheer population over other countries with a sufficient drive in scientific endeavors. Religion, if anything, has hindered your advancement! The founders of your nation were secularists.

  • @jamespwatson:

    Religion has hindered scientific advancement? How, name a legitimate example, please be rational or I will be forced to ridicule your claim.

    If you had half a knowledge of the advancement of Science, you would know only its application (technology) is driven by economy. The discoveries, the fundamental ones, made by people like Newton and Einstein were personal curiosity and a forced inspiration by the cosmic religious feeling (In Einstein's words).

  • @ogirv101 Attacks on evolution, pope threatening to condemn Galileo for astronomical discoveries, general emphasis on "supernatural" nonesense over valid scientific progress. Dark ages, witch hunts. Stem cell research. Terry Schiavo incident. Faith healing. Einstein certainly wasn't a beliver in the Christian gods, or any personal dieties. No scientific advancement during the Christian controlled dark ages until modern secular era. The most religious people are the most unsientific.

  • @luvdomus:

    Yeah, explain to me why Darwin was a Christian when he developed his theory? Or why there are more theistic evolutionists than creationist evolutions? Can you also please explain to me how you're so stupid to think that the Church condemned Galileo for his observations (yeah, you're an idiot and don't read history, you make assumptions like the idiot you are).

    Dark ages? Nothing to do with Christianity. Stem cell research, even some Atheists go against it. Fait healing?

  • @luvdomus:

    I wonder if you'r even seriosu with all this bullshit you're spouting. No scientific advacement until modern secular era? What does that even mean? First of all we have the ocford calculators, roger bacon, william of occam, and duns scotus with their genuine contributions to science. What about the rise of Universities because of scholasticism? Or what about forced literacy to attain salvation by the Church?

    Try doing something, read, don't make assumptions.

  • William of Ockham and Duns Scotus were philosophers, not scientists. It doesn't strike you as odd that the progression of science was incredibly slow until the "modern secular era" as it was put. For a long time, it was a few people, here and there, who came up with one small idea, maybe a couple every century, compared to now, science and technology are booming, comparatively speaking of course.

  • @jamespwatson:

    Science arose formt he branch of metaphysics, Science came from philosophy. In fact the main tools used in Science were once considered part of philsoophical thinking, the scientific revolution was partially inspired to have a distinct branch of science and a distinct branch of philosophy as distinct branches fo thinking.

    Occam's razor and ideas of simplcitiy (Christian idea) is used in Science today, we take the simplest explanations and deny unwarrented hypothesis.

  • Sure, you are right about that, but don't go saying they made scientific contributions, when they made philosophical ones that eventuated into science.

    Christian Idea.... pfft.

    Occam's razor was not a Christian idea. Sure it has been applied to Christianity, time and time again (in both supporting and non-supporting perspectives).

  • @jamespwatson:

    If you create the basis in which to do science, that is more important than scientific discoveries as well, since you created the way into which to make these discoveries. That is what the Philosophers did and the foudning fathers of the scientific revolutino did, god dam you're stupid.

    Simplciity and the idea of coherence in the Universe is a pure Christian idea, Islam and a couple of other rational (Deist, Pantheist) religions holds them as well, but Christianity...

  • @jamespwatson:

    Was the religion to hold it, nourish it, cultivate it, and create the greatest scientific event in history of our thinking.

    Why was there only 50-52 men? It was a study on who had the most influence on the scientific revolution, sure there were lots of men, the Church itself mad eit their duty to have as many people understanding nature as possible.

    The thing is that there are only few really influential people, and most of these were anti-atheist and devout theists.

  • @jamespwatson:

    Francis Bacon, the father of the scientific method, was in fact a philsoopher. Also, I don't think these were "small" ideas, you're just arrogant and don't knwo a fucking word you're talking about.

    Yes, Science is booming, and it's because of these group of small men (around 50 or 52) that started the scientific revolution that made Science noruish, maintain itself, and "boom". But according to you, they were only small ideas? Yeah, take a course in history of science...

  • OK, maybe they weren't small ideas, but they were few and far between. Why was there not 50000 men instead of 50? Religion.

  • @ogirv101

    You are not wrong about the fundamental discoveries, but do you think ALL sciences can be studied and improved upon without economic stimulation? To say so is naive. I am pretty sure the human genome project required a hell of a lot of funding. Not to mention NASA's seemingly halted progression due to financial boundaries. Money spent by your government on religious propaganda (and even fighting wars on other religions) is funding that could have easily gone somewhere more beneficial.

  • @jamespwatson:

    Little economic stumiluation is needed, in fact economic stimulation is added after the fundamental studies. you're basing this off an irrational view that Science was inspired by economy, no it wasn't, it was inspired by religious men trying to understand God (in their words not mine).

    My goverment religious propoganda, religious wars? Now you're going to start with some conspiracy shit, if you do, I'll just end it here.

  • Conspiracy shit? Are you or are you not in a multi-billion dollar war against a group of religious extremists?

    You think I am basing this off an idea that science was inspired by economy? Don't put words in my mouth. Sure, anyone can have an idea. To develop it takes time, and resources. Time and resources = money.

  • @jamespwatson:

    Yeah, we are going ot war on religious extrimists? That's not a religious war, a religious war is fighting in the name of religion, we're fighting in the name of the defence of our nation, unless you want to have flying plnaes crash into our cities? You unpatriotic ass.

    Sure anyone can have an idea? Wow, you're thinking of engineering and technology, the application of science. The Science I'm talking about has little to do with that...

  • Never did I use the term "Religious War". When did I say that? You fight a war on religious extremists. Imagine for a second that this religion did not exist, and all the money spent on the war was given to fund scientific projects.

    You accuse me of being unpatriotic? Please get your head around the fact not every person in the world is American.

    Of course I am talking about the advancement of engineering and technology. I set the topic.

  • @jamespwatson:

    I could care less abotu engineering and technology? Science is more important, the application of it is run by economy and other things that really don't catch my interest. let me quote Einstein on this:

    Many take to science out of a joyful sense of superior intellectual power; science is their own special sport to which they look for vivid experience and the satisfaction of ambition;...

  • @jamespwatson: many others are to be found in the temple who have offered the products of their brains on this altar for purely utilitarian purposes. Were an angel of the Lord to come and drive all the people belonging to these two categories out of the temple, the assemblage would be seriously depleted, but there would still be some men, of both present and past times, left inside. Our Planck is one of them, and that is why we love him."

  • @ogirv101 Believing in "god" is no more specific than believing in "something somewhere out there somehow or another". People believe in unknown forces but belief in the doctrines of the Christian gods is declining.

  • @luvdomus:

    The main function of Science is to attain the cosmic religion feeling and wake it up to those who are receptive to us, as Einstein said. He also said that it was pointless to have that feeling if no definate theology or notion of God was made. (contradicts the bullshit you're sputing for some reason).

    "It is said, not unjustly, by a contemporary; that in this materialistic age of ours, the truely serious scientific workers are the religious" ~Albert Einstein

  • The main function of science is to attain the truth, no matter how damaging it is to contemporary belief systems.

    Just because Einstein hypothesized E=MC^2 doesn't mean that every quote he said can be taken as gospel.

  • @jamespwatson:

    That's your view of science, politicians see it as money, others see it as the product of the devil, but the most influential scientists saw as finding truth and understanding God's glory.

    I was not making the definition, it wasn't even me, it was off a direct quote from Einstein, and pretty much the greatest scientists agree with him. Also, he didn't hypothesize, he developed that equation off other equations, Einstein wasn't only responsible for E=MC^2 you nescient bafoon.

  • Science by definition: systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

    Just because Einstein was quoted to have agreed with someone does not make that quote applicable and correct in today's society.

    Again with the putting words in my mouth and vain insults. I only used it as an example and now you say I know nothing of anything else he did because I chose his most famous work in that example?

  • @jamespwatson:

    I know what science is you dipshit, i take philsoophy of science currently. What we're talking about is what inspires sciences, it has nothing to do with understanding the process of science itself you moron.

    Einstein, Newton, Faraday, maxwell, Planck, Darwin, Bohr were all devout God believers. They attributed their inspiration to God's existence, and belief in God has inspired the greatest scientists of all ages, nothing more. You're putting words in my mouth.

  • No, I was talking about how religion has hindered science. You dragged it to a different topic and proceeded to act like you knew everything.

    You used a quote from Einstein about religious scientists and expected me to believe what he said because he is Einstein. That quote is merely him agreeing with someone else, in a time no longer applicable. Note that its a subjective quote please.

    Maybe they were all god believers. So what, there is more brilliant Atheist scientists now than Theists.

  • @jamespwatson:

    The science which you speak of, is not actual search for truth, but rather manipulation of nature to suit the purpose of man. Sure it's important, but it is meaningless to me, to understand nature in its fundamental level if the science I speak of.

    It cannot be reduced to simple making humans more comfortable, rather searching for truth. I also find it funny taht you think religion has hindered science, but historicaly that's not what the fathers of science thought.

  • @jamespwatson:

    The scientists we have today are merely working off what past scientists have done, ti was the genius of men like Newton, Copernicus, Mendel, Darwin, and other fathers of science who allowed today's scientists to even work.

    These men were inspired by religion and God, sorry, I could care less about today, but I could care less about the people. what does the evidence show? Do you not see the order in the Universe, or do you close the eye?

  • Thank you for admitting your delusion. I am done with this.

  • @jamespwatson:

    Yes they all believed in God, they were all God believers. I never claimed the believed in a personal God. Darwin did not believe in a personal God either in his later life.

    Do you even know what a personal God is? Yeah, you're a complete idiot.

  • Newton and Darwin believed in god only because of the times in which they were born, when it was unacceptable not to. Their scientific discoveries were accomplished in spite of their unfortunate religious milieu not because of it. Religion no longer defines the world, science does. The modern cosmos is closer to Hindu-Buddhist concepts than the patriarchal worldview of the Middle Ages modeled as it was after Kings and courts and subjects who either obey their lords or are punished.

  • @luvdomus:

    Actually, in the time they were born, it was only acceptable to be an anglican Christian. Darwin was an Agnostic Deist in his later life (and yes, it was acceptable), and Newton was an arian Christian who had to keep his beliefs secret? Any more nonsense?

    Their discoveries in spite of religion? Newton said that his reason for doing science was God? Darwin was a naturalist, he was deeply inspired by nature which his God created.

  • @luvdomus:

    Hindu-Buddhist concept? Are you serious? They both believe in an eternal Universe, modern cosological models are anything but eternal! You also don't seem to understand history at all, why don't you read about history and recognize truth rather than just assuming.

    How often have you read on the history of science and religion? Not often, I bet you just watch youtube videos and assume shit out of your own bias.

  • An applicable quote for you:

    I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

  • @jamespwatson:

    I never claimed Einstein believed in a personal God? What on earth are you quoting that for?

  • No problem.

    My point of view is: There is no such thing as the supernatural, it is merely a book of myth, or rather YOUR Myth of choice.

    There has never yet been any evidence pointing to anything like that existing.

    We now have explanations for a great deal of our universe, and it's ALL natural.

    BTW, why did you choose that particular god, I don't suppose you were brought up to believe it were you?

    Why is "faith", (believing something in the absence of evidence, because your told) a good thing

  • @martiangrundy:

    So your view is reliant on Metaphysical naturalism, but in metaphysical naturalism all that exists is the atom and the void (i.e. Democritus), so then there is no purpose, just blind forces creating the Universe blindly.

    Meaning, moral relativism should be the actual ethical stance, epistemolgoical relativism should also be the actual stance. This menas no such thing as judicial laws, and no such thing as Knowledge or Science, just a product of flawed human thinking.

  • @martiangrundy:

    Why is faith a good thing? Well, think about it. Do you have evidence that your knowledge atatinign abilitites are valid? You don't, and it is impossible to do so as Kurt Godel prove mathematically through his Incompleteness theorom. All knowledge is based on precursive faith on the axiomatic fundamental truths in which we attain knowledge itself. Read on Precursive (rational) faith of William James and the Belief Conservation principle.

  • Sorry just a test.

    This garbage system keeps throwing away posts, or not posting in the first place.

    Man what a garbage system this is.

  • Goodness, how disappointing.

    Let's imagine we know absolutely none of it.

    WHY do we need dream up a deity?

    Do we have ANY evidence to make us think a thing like this could exist?

    As you yourself earlier said, were explaining more and more all the time, what do you imagine will happen in the future?

    1, well continue in our quest for understanding, continually finding, (as we have done since science begun) that we can explain everything in natural terms.

    OR

    2, we'll discover the supernatural.

  • Cont.---

    "ignoring the possibility of a God shows human arrogance".

    Absolutely not, I'm fully aware, and comfortable with my minuscule and finite place in the cosmos, and am more than happy to move over for the next generations. Can you really think this more arrogant than imagining that the universe was made with just us in mind? And by merely praying, the "gaffer" of the whole universe will actually listen to YOU, and alter events just for YOU.

    If so, you have a strange idea of arrogance.

  • "We are begining to understand, espescially in the last 100 years, what that what makes up the world around".

    Yes absolutely, and every time we figure something out, we find it has a natural explanation, and that we need nothing supernatural to explain the world.

    "and thats only the world we can see and analyze, not the intellectual or spirtual domain".

    WHAT "intellectual or spirtual domain" exactly, intellectuality comes from our brain, all physical, and explainable naturally.

    Cont.---

  • Yes absolutely, it is scientific knowledge that has given us the world we so take for granted, in 2009.

    I'm puzzled however.

    "scientific knowledge only allows for believers to understand -the very little- things we do not know about nature."

    How does this "increase your faith", this is the archetypal "god of the gaps". These gaps by necessity, are becoming less and less as our knowledge increases. When will be the time to say, "well it seems we can explain everything in naturalistic terms"?

  • Scientific knowledge and advancement can not help but undermine supernatural beliefs, it is inevitable eventually.

    As the non first world advance it will happen in the rest of the world slowly.

    The USA is lagging the rest of the first world, but the general scientific knowledge is woeful, they are slowly falling behind, and I don't think they will allow this much longer. I see a scientific backlash coming quite soon, as more get to realise how crucial science is to the economy, and health.

  • I wish this transition would hurry up. I hate religion. Yes, HATE.

  • agnosticism ftw