The Need for Cultural Immersion

[timotheeforest]

modern cry for contextualisation is a CURSE

[timotheeforest]

look to john baptist he was a little bit out of touch with is society

[roac7777]

I think Driscoll and his ilk should be immersed, UWFOH = Under Water For One Hour

[handtrembler]

But if I understand you correctly, then you could gladly embrace this good theology: "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. And in all things, charity."

The only question becomes, what are essentials? And the only answers are found in Scripture. Wander haphazardly about in the garden of your mind and philosophy, and you will certainly fall into a ditch of error. But make His word your lamp, and your path will be lit.

[handtrembler]

Accommodating and hospitable, absolutely. But Paul did not offer meat to idols, nor join any orgies. He didn't pantomime them in his body but deny them in spirit, either; and I'd argue the whole "narrative" (heh heh heh) makes more sense if you view it in the light of Paul understanding them, yes, but not because his chief objective was to understand them. The gospel is not conditional.

[handtrembler]

Sounds good until you read Paul's letters. It doesn't matter what the lost believe or how they view things... they're lost.

Their minds are twisted and useless; the solution isn't becoming like them, it's the supernatural power of God in revealing the Gospel.

Not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ be robbed of its power. This is what they don't get- God isn't like them; it's a lie to argue otherwise, and idolatry to invent a God they can like. Don't be ashamed of the scandal.

[therealdrag0]

"the solution isn't becoming like them," right!

No one is advocating that. We're saying; God doesn't want you to join the Christian culture, he's fine with rock music, Mohawks, w/e, but you have a sin issue, lets deal with that; that's what matters. Then you can rock out to clean rock music and use your Mohawk to help other Mohawks be open to the gospel! :D

[handtrembler]

It's certainly wise not to attempt a forced acceptance of mainstream Christian culture, but do you think your Mohawk will help other Mohawks be open to the gospel? Seriously, it won't.

It would be easier to say, "Yeah, great!" But it isn't; these people aren't merely assenting to an opinion, they're plummeting toward Hell. And the sacrifice to love them and rescue them extends beyond trendy clothes. Seriously, find out what the Bible says. It's life or death.

[therealdrag0]

Again, I think your missing the point. The need for cultural immersion isn't so that they have a another nice buddy who is like them; the WHOLE point is to make the GOSPEL more accessible. Regardless of what you think, you are participating in culture. If you deny today's culture, you're probably buying into an outdated one. Culture is NOT BAD! Sin is bad, unrighteousness is bad. However YOU have your hair, that is another form of culture. And lost people have prejudices against people like you.

[handtrembler]

You express yourself well. My point is, the GOSPEL is inaccessible. It is literally impossible to believe apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. It is preposterous to the natural mind, and at variance with it. Trying to smooth the way for the gospel to be accepted is admirable in spirit, but misguided.

[therealdrag0]

True. That's one question I have about this, especially considering Driscoll, and Piper, and Chandler are Reformed (Calvinists).

But again, or maybe for the first time. It is clear in the MarsHill passage of scripture that Paul sought points of identification on which to help communicate the Gospel. And 1 Cor 9:19-23, seems to connote an accommodating and hospitable attitude.

[piegie]

You are both ignoring the fact that the rest of Driscoll's teaching is pretty radically conservative. It's not about making the Gospel accessible it's about not adding to it. God doesn't care if you are trendy or have a mohawk or where a dog muzzle so long as you love Jesus and tell others about him in a loving manner. There are plenty of church going people "plummeting toward hell" and people with pink hair that are saved.

[therealdrag0]

I don't think I ignored that.

[piegie]

Ok you didn't ignore it but you sure didn't talk about it. All I'm saying is that your idea of making the gospel accessible is changing the gospel but saying that one has to change how he acts in culture is also adding to it. There are aspects of culture that should be avoided by followers but you don't get to decide them the HS is what directs what level of culture you are comfortable with. And can you define "clean" music. I personally find Mercy Me morre offensive than anything mainstream?

[desigroves]

I think as Christians we must be sure to know the Word and be led by the Spirit of God. Paul urges us to do that which is profitable for the kingdom in ICor 10:23. Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial, everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial 24; nobody should seek his own good but the good of others. I have found that relating to someone in their element gives the example that God loves them right where they're at. I depends on the situation.

[stmcgarret]

This is why grieves/angers me about Mars Hill for they advocate sin plain and simple.R-rated moves laced with nudity, murder, blasphemy and all the other filth Hollywood can produce.If not movies, it is the dregs of the music scene like the ilk found at the promoted Seattle Tattoo Expo.One band is so vile that their site is flagged as porno (Nashville Pus.y).This is total wickedness and inexcusable.One could go on like w/ MD's course jesting, blasphemous "jesus" t-shirts, etc.Wake up & repent!

[stmcgarret]

Reaching out to the lost is our call, but not to "immerse" ourselves in the evil culture we live in.Did Paul, Peter, James, et all preach this?Do you find them going to gladiator contests, raucous banquets, chariot races or any of the other evil Rome was know for?No; instead they preached the exact opposite-that is for believers to separate themselves from the evil and be holy with the call to come out of this sin which is one of the main reason why they were so hated and martyred.

[newsongjoy]

Actually it is exacly what Paul did at Mars Hill. He looked around the Culture and saw who they were, and how depraved they were and how much they needed Jesus. He saw the statues to the Roman Gods and knew how the city worked. He knew he could speak to an interested receptive audience at Mars Hill.

[stmcgarret]

Yes, he saw they were wicked reprobates who lived like ignorant idolizing gentiles. And he told them the times of this ignorance God winked at but now commands all men to repent (turn from this wickedness and forsake it) for he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world. To liken this to diving into our wicked sordid culture and drinking down its filth to be relevant is a stretch beyond words.

[therealdrag0]

Watch the Driscoll video Style in Ministry. He does NOT compromise the gospel, they merely package it so that it is accessible to the generation he is reaching. And they never endorsed sin, you're a liar.

[stmcgarret]

So watching R rated movies with nakedness, murder, blasphemy, etc. is not sin? Donning t-shirts that make a mockery of Jesus is not sin and a trampling under foot of the 2nd commandment? Rejoicing in and promoting the horrendous filth of South Park is not sin? Ok - I guess I'm wrong.

[Cinnabonza]

I encourage TMCguy to examine the book of Acts, and Paul's 13 letters. Paul's methods describe a man searching and understanding and discovering what the people dealt with, worshiped, disliked, etc. Then based the presentation, not changing the Gospel, but applying it in a culturally sound method so the people would understand and get saved by Jesus.

[TMCguy]

Not that I disagree with everything he said.

[TMCguy]

I think this new idea of having to "get to know people" to give them the gospel... is false. I don't really see that in Scripture.

[luvdady]

behold I stand at the door and knock and if you open the door I will come and eat with you! rev3:10

zackeisus come down out of that tree and Im coming to your house .

in that day it was an honor to eat at someones house.

[44jason]

If we only greet our brother then we are only as good as those who have not the love of Christ in them

[timothywarren]

Jesus went into their lives. He didn't wait for them to come to Him, He went to their homes and ate with the whores and tax collectors, He sought them out. Jesus sent the disciples out to preach and teach and love, not to go into a area and set up shop to wait for people to come to them.

[Firebird3509576]

That's right! Jesus ministered in the home and took great criticism for it..."friend of sinners". Jesus came to SEEK and to save those who are lost.

[saved600]

This guy is very dangerous in his philosophy. Yes we need to come to know our neighbors, but not by learning their lifestyles. No one in the bible EVER did this. We are told to come out from among them, not get into their lifestyles. We are to show them our Master through our lifestyles and how that life is a rewarding one. Then they can come and join us, not us them.

[Firebird3509576]

Yes, and if every Christian was "letting their light shine before men" I guess that Driscoll and Rob Bell would not have to spend their time devising a plan to reach the post-modern generation.

[speedy3816]

If it's not a lifestyle that contradicts the word of God, then why not make an effort to learn about your neighbors?

I know plenty of people that live decent, moral, honorable lives yet do not know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

[DiscipleRay]

I know this "makes sense" on a human level but there is no command to make friends in the New Testament, no command to "get to know people" either. The word of God is supernatural, we need to know people well enought to preach the gospel in the language and vernacular they understand. The word will do the work, we must be careful not to depend on our ability to "become relevant" but rather on Christ and the efficacy of the proclaimed message of the gospel.

[cloudstastemetallicC]

maybe, instead of knowing them so you can convert them, you could get to know them because you respect their character as a person or their humanity. You are just trivializing people down to saved or not saved souls, instead of valueing their humanity.

[Daninkorea]

Actually, working with people so that they may know God and enjoy life to the fullest in relationship with Jesus is the highest method of valuing their humanity.