Don't you think that a better focus would be to take on the banks that suck the life blood out of small businesses and communities resulting in debt slavery? How about getting rid of the armaments industry that is feeding international war?
Atheists and agnostics,God is on your side.He does not seek to condemn anyone.He seeks to bless,to give joy and peace.Read the story of the "good Samaritan".
@TheEaglestar1 "he does not condemn anyone" Only homosexuals, infidels, and those deemed worthy to go to hell...'He seeks to bless, to give joy and Peace" Jesus told ppl hate their families and that he was bringing a sword to divide them. The Good Samaritan is a great story--so is the tale about a man who asked god to give him a win in battle and in return he would sacrifice the first person who came out of his front door. The person was his daughter. He killed her.
@sepiasiren Firstly,please be assured of my kind intentions to you,a fellow human being who I do not know anything about, yet care very much for.Textual converse can be so easily misinterpreted.
What I said was,"He does not seek to condemn anyone".You misquoted me with "he does not condemn anyone".These are not the same.
The difference in meaning between what I said and what you perceive that I said is as follows.
@sepiasiren God does not seek to condemn anyone and has provided a means whereby anyone can easily escape condemnation.
Ezekiel 18:23,"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
2 Peter 3:9,"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
@sepiasiren 1 Timothy 2:3-6,"3This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men". Romans 8:1,"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,"
@sepiasiren Matthew 19:25-26,"25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
@sepiasiren John 3:5-7,"5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
So,let's summarise the points so far.God doesnot seek to condemn anyone.He is patient withpeople,wanting them to come to a point where they are not condemned.God has provided a means whereby....
@sepiasiren ...people are not condemned(through Jesus Christ's atoning death and a new life through being born again).This brings us onto the next point.It is easy.Not difficult.
Ephesians 2:8-9,"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast."
What does this mean,ie grace?Well,grace is a free gift that is not(and cannot) be earned.A free gift just needs to be received.
@sepiasiren We receive the free gift of being born again (which frees us from condemnation and allows us to live a more full life here and now on earth) simply by faith.Faith means relationship and trust in God that He will do as He says and trust in Jesus Christ that His death is sufficient to atone for all our faults(and I wish to point out that I personally have many) and also in allowing the Holy Spirit to motivate us to love God and other people just as the "good Samaritan".
@sepiasiren I hope that this is a comprehensive coverage of the main point.I will happily discuss more on this if you wish.The other two points which you made can also be discussed but I would like to ensure this first point is covered completely first.What do you think?
The 1st Amendment was meant so that laws wouldn't be written specifically to affect religions; not to exempt religions from laws in general.
And as pointed out in the video, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", yet to establish a new religion, you must meet Congress' legislated requirement of what a religion is? That seems to contradict.
I think the Church gets its money from people who go to church and donate at the offertory. This money is spent towards maintaining the church. Taxing the church would just leach off people twice, and it would not be fair because why can't you tax the synogogue or the mosque, or a scientology church? I'm not an athiest, or a full Christian, more like an agnostic. If i'm wrong, tell me where most religious people get their money off.
@redrooster241 Something like 150 million people are Christian in America so if each donated only 5 bucks per year the churchs would make 750million tax free. You would also account that each one of those people could get a tax deduction for donating. Most rich people do that so they can feel good about themselves donating but in reality they just take taxes from the government and pour it into the church.
@vottoduder By that logic pastors, being associated with the church, are beyond US law as laid down by the state.
Seperation of church and state means that Churches are not given special consideration under the law, such as by giving them tax exemptions, or by giving them children via morning school prayers.
Absolutely tax the churches! They should have to file all the same tax paperwork as any other "non-profit" organization, and only get a tax break on those PORTIONS of their activities that any other non-profit organization would.
@GodVlogger I agree. Except for the churches which clearly are not Non-Profits. There should be a limit on annual income which if exceeded should be taxed identically to all other corporations, which is what they are.
@jacksawild Well the only way that churches could/should qualify as "non-profit" organizations are by filing tax forms like every other non-profit organization does. Then the truly charitable activities of the churches may qualify for tax exemption. But all the other stuff would pay taxes just like everyone else.
Use your God given intuition: who shows a higher consciousness level? who kills or who respects life?, who steal or who share? who enslave or who frees? who envy or who love? who is selfish or who is selfless? who is materialistic or who is spiritual?. We are due to move to the next consciousness level by rejecting all materialism and selfishness. Those were Jesus teachings, which atheism reject. God will act, and anyone that refuse to move may be expendable. Open your eyes before is too late.
The federal government shouldn't tax anyone. It should be allotted a percentage of state income once a month. It should be uniform throughout the states so if the best number turns out to be10% then every state gives the federal government 10%. States should have no taxes other than one flat sales tax. Also, no government in America federal, state, or local should be allowed to profit from crime, no fines at all.
@aegisgfx They already are in the political process. And they vote as a bloc. And not only churches. For example, 4 Hasidic Jews from New Square,NY are convicted of fraud, sentenced to jail. Hillary Clinton is campaigning for state senator, goes to New Square, talks to the leaders. Election day comes, 1359 out or 1369 voters in New Square vote for Hillary. Shortly thereafter, Bill Clinton pardons the New Square Four.
@Lodine66 Because of all the harm its doing. You're the dipshit now.lol I bet you didn't think of that before making your childish comment. How old are you? 12
@Lodine66 taxing churches has no bearing on freedom of belief, you dont need a wooden barack with a symbol atop to believe what you believe , when you exit the church or if you are for months away from that organisation will you stop believing? NO because churches are not obligatory for faith they only are supports. you can believe whatever you want but you canot expect other faiths and people without religion to pay for your organisation that suports your faith in your imaginary friends.
1st amendment alows freedom of excercising your religious faith. it is not there to protect churches as organisations. faith doesnt require more than 1 person and can be freely excercised without a church. if you want to organise your faith and build a church for it thats something youve created as a suport to your faith but its not bearing on wheather you beleive. taxing your church has no bearing on freedom of your belief. your belief is free its just that others dont have to pay for it too
The government will do everything in its power to maintain tax exemption. Contrary to what many of you may believe, 501c3 is not intended to help churches - it is meant to subjugate them to the State. Under the disguise of financial benefits, churches are told what they can and cannot say. Google "How the IRS controls churches".
reuters reports the greeks have started a tax the church facebook page, can any one send a link to it please, i have searched facebook cant find the specific page, 100,000 greeks have subscribed according to reuters? Please help
@Lodine66 I agree that the churches should be able to exercise their religion freely. But they should not be tax exempt. When churches are tax exempt we pay the taxes for them. No one should have to pay for a religion they don't agree with.
@Lodine66 But to believe in the existence of god based on a book that was written thousands of years ago by non-eyewitnesses and is filled with doctrines that, if practiced, would lead to a prison sentence in modern society is somehow not nuts? Why? Just because it never changes?
@Lodine66 You are a retarded person. you are the reason the rest of the world hates the U.S. You believe in God? Do you think he would like you calling people names.
@Lodine66 You sound like a brainwashed religious fanatic. You may not be, but that's what you're coming off as. It is a bit hypocritical for you to diss ianman6 for have no certainty, but claiming to be certain god exists. Many people change their views on things when they learn something new that contradicts it. Sadly, with religion, this basic reasoning can sometimes fail, like you and your beliefs on evolution.
@Lodine66 Fuck you right back. Who's the brainwashed asshole here? You're the one who believes in a fucking sky daddy fairy tale for grown ups. Please, give me a fucking break, I'm not 5 anymore. And us evolving from neanderthals? Wtf are you reading? Is the science material in your area from the 1800s? Because that would explain your mental retardation. On a side note, I know some 'fags' as you call them who would lay you the fuck out in a second, you arrogant cunt.
@Lodine66 Wtf does this have to do with Marxism? Nothing. You believe in God be cause you're too dumb to think for yourself so you are easily convinced by other, smarter-sounding people than you who also can't think for themselves.
The tax free status automatically given to established religions is given to them because it is established that they are a religion already right? Not because they are a preferred religion ah? It is just government trying to be more efficient or more lazy depending on how you want to look at it.
soooo......wait you want to make the government dependent on tax from churches?
the churches are rich.....and its a lot of cash, up to 10% of a person's earning.....that is a lot of money your standing to take....how could the government remain separate when one of your largest cash cows is religion .....this is a bad idea....for both side.
I am an atheist, and I don't think churches should be taxed. I think it would backfire, and give churches more of a foothold in government, which is already happening too much. It would give them grounds and standing to say "Hey, we're taxpayers too! Therefore we DEMAND ________________", and all too many politicians will use this as one more way to chip away at the wall of separation. We need to keep religion out of politics--taxes will inevitably bring them in more.
@Strangerinasland But how does tax evasion increase one's influence with the government? I don't see the connection. I don't like religion--especially organized religion, and the bigger and thicker that wall of separation is, the better. If churches paid taxes, wouldn't that give them leverage? Wouldn't they be able to say--"hey, we're taxpayers too, we should have some say-so in how things are run"? I know, they already try to, but wouldn't this breach that wall and give them more leverage?
@DandAinTac I probably should have put some qualifier in there rather than make it a flat out statement of fact. I don't think we can know for certain which is better, specially since there are other factors involved.
I'm thinking tho that politicians knowing churches are being treated better in this 1 way probably makes them more in the mindset to treat them better in other ways.
@Strangerinasland Hmmm. I see your point, and I suppose it's possible. I think government is already predisposed to treat churches with enormous deference no matter what. I'm afraid it would just open a door wider. I want to slam that door shut and nail it shut. I think the whole issue deserves a long thorough debate though. I'm for anything that will strengthen and reinforce separation of church and state.
I agree with everything Matt said. What most people don't realize about churches being tax exempt is any church that owns property, building, homes, etc, that they can claim as being used by the church for the church than it is Tax exempt. We have a pastor here that has one of the largest Churches in Alaska, they have their own school, which people pay for, and he own over a dozen large homes, condos, duplexes that he claims if used for the church. All of it is tax exempt and a load of shit.
Damn right's the churches should be taxed. In my opinion all churches, mosques, etc should be closed down and torn down. People that want to worship or follow this nonsense can do so in their own homes. Just Sayin'
@Allanfries no they can't, and maybe i think this channel being torn down for all you idiots meeting here...how are you going to have separation of church and state when your drawling in billions from churches, if it comes down to it, the churches will win....think USSR, Pope John Paul shows up, people start screaming "WE WANT GOD"
This is an interesting discussion. I oftened wondered why Churches don't pay any taxes? I know that at one time the Church was really part of the ruling government but today there seems to be no reason why this old law exists. In fact why should there be any tax exemptions at all for anyone. Right now it seems that the rich can hire lawyers to get deductions and exemptions. Why not just tax everyone at the same rate????
@chairde mainly due to the fact that most of the money goes to charity, my parish priest got about 150$ a mouth in pay, the majority of the money is spent *in my parish* on a parish school, which holds 800 kids, and is currently the only thing standing in the way of 32 kids in every class in both the local middle schools, the reminder of this money is going to Japan at the moment, we have found a sister school to help rebuild and have already sent them a good deal of money :) good enough?
@kevinjjfr So what is your point? Are you trying to tell me that poor people don't pay taxes. The working poor pay taxes out of their paychecks don't they. Then why should your Church be exempt? It doesn't matter what your church does, that is not and has never been the point. Good works have nothing to do with the payment of taxes. You shouldn't get a free pass from taxes. Instead of sending money to Japan you should pay property tax that will benefit our society.
if they are sayin Money is a Material Thing then why do religion rake in the Material money, why dose the Pope have trillions. and not home the homless, and other things, i say TAX them all to the Poor House
Your confused with the term "CHURCH" it isn't a building it's the believers in Christ basically the people are the church. So how can you say that we should be taxed we are being taxed everybody pays taxes. Stop hating on the church don't be a hater dude
@Brotherfireball1988 There was no "hate" in his statement. He simply said that the constitution specifically prohibits the government from sanctioning any religion. If the government gives tax exempt status to churches, then it must decide what "church" is tax exempt and which is not, thereby sanctioning one church over another. If no distinction is made, then fraud runs rampant. The only other logical alternative is to not give churches tax exempt status as a church. I support the latter.
@hellgun949494 Depends on who you ask but yes the evidence points to the lack of a deity, not to mention that most gods depicted are more complex than what was started with making the notion ridiculous.
Personally, I am open to the idea a god exists if there was proof that one exists, however this would not mean I would worship it in anyway or change my life around this, it would just be another fact of my existence.
i'm a agnostic .. i hate church and most christians but taxing the church is fucking stupid.. do you think most churches rake in money? and the corrupted ones that do.. you don't think they would find a way around your new tax? and for someone who thinks god is real and thinks they have to give 10% of their income to god just to have the government take it away ... thats moral? you guys are just haters go drinks some hateraid
@jetset808 your mostly correct, i think the church pulls in a lot of cash....other then that your 100% right, if they start taxing churches, well why give 10% of our income to see it taken away? the churches will just meet in open field and stop providing services like schools, and charity work to save cost....the other thing is of course if it comes down to church VS state, state's going down.
@hellgun949494 Most athiest do realize that a god could exist, however there is not enough evidence that says a god does. It is kind of like some religious people are open to the thought that a god may not exist. The type of person that you are reffering to is actually what is called an Anti-theist as in they are one hundred percent against the idea that a god exists. On a side note I do ask you, please don't follow this up with a version of Pascal's wager.
I've heard that taxing churches would allow them more benefits in politics, such as lobbying. I'm too forgetful to have my own opinion on the matter, but it is something to think about.
1st off, I am an athiest but, I do not think they should be taxed. By doing so, you are entangling religion $ with government $ and then the dif. churches would have more of a say in the running of government: no taxation w/o representation. I do however think that churches who are exempt, should have totally transparent books to make sure there is no $ going to certian political campaigns and acting like a puppet master.
Yeah the immortal jellyfish negates the entire Bible. Just that one creature alone. Sorry the bible says: No immortal creature or being exists outside of heaven and hell. Well shit, that's so fucking clearly WRONG. I'll no longer show ANY religious person ANY respect. Nor will I debate them. Science won. Religion outright lost. The war is over. Evolutionary quantum leap. + immortal being.
The very first words of the Bill of Rights read: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Exempting religious organizations from paying taxes is a clear case of our government "respecting an establishment of religion," precisely what the framers intended to prohibit.
@oleh2007 Oh, there are many churches that make a profit. They just don't have to be transparent about their books. Correct me if I'm wrong, but church "employees" do get taxed on their "salaries", and the tax exempt status only applies to the churches properties, which are copious. Many people, myself included, see this automatic tax exemption as a tacit endorsement of religion by our government.
@richwfd2002 yes you're right, if ministers get paid they do need to pay the federal income tax all the taxes.
but the concept of taxing churches is as ridiculous as lets say taxing kindergatens and schools.
besides most of the money that churches receive stays in the community, it goes for charity and maintance of the church itself. besides churches still pay thier bills.
@oleh2007 Bullshit Most churches keep 70% of all their income. Including dvds, bookmakers, Schools. How in the hell is taxing churches like taxing kindergartens? That is shit coming from your mouth. If we taxed churches. There would be no more U.S. debt, free health care for everyone. No more starving people in the U.S. Less taxes for us. More money for everyone. But you don't care about that do you?
@oleh2007 The Establishment Clause prohibits government from making adherence to a religion relevant in any way to a person's standing in the political community. That means endorsing religion.
@oleh2007 What? Are you joking or are you retarded. Churches get profit. the largest mega church earn over 70million dollars last year. Just one church. The minister from that church does not have a job. He works full time with his church. He lives in a 1.5 million house. Drives a 70 thousand dollar car. I think he's making money. Just because your minister doesn't make money doesn't mean everyone else is.
"The 47 percent number is not wrong. [...] But the modifiers here — federal and income — are important."
This was your exact quote and now your going back on it. And do you know what tax returns are? You act like you are oblivious to the fact that people get there money back.
I never said 47% do not pay income taxes, I said they do not have a deficit at the end of the year (i.e. they paid them during the year), therefore they do not need to pay further taxes. There is a big difference in paying enough of your income tax year round without owing at the end of the year, and not paying taxes period.
Non-profit atheist organisations should be taxed into oblivion, and atheists should be made to donate an equal percentage of their income to charities that christians (who incidently donate more) do.
@AtheistTower Actually many atheist donate both time and money to many charities. I myself volunteered as an EMT for my local ambulances company and took in two teenagers living on the streets. I feel all churches should be taxed unless proven they aren't making a profit. Which many wouldn't be able to show. Evangelicals are some of the worst offenders. But taxing a group because of non belief is silly and forced charity takes away from the very concept of charity.
@AtheistTower You should learn to make your point without name-calling. It's childish. Furthermore, it's overkill for the comment I made. I was simply stating in response to IAmTheCthulhu that the pastors I've known did indeed draw a salary. Also, he gave no good reason for saying that by taxing churches it will enable them to impose their values into law. It makes no sense. But churches, like any business, do indeed need to be taxed, because that's what they are, a money-making business.
I apologise for my language. However, very few churches are businesses by definition; their purpose is not to generate money, they are not for profit, irrespective of how many actually make a profit. Churches that are set up for profit are not real churches.
@AtheistTower Actually there is a large number of churches (I'm not sure if they are the majority) but still a large number, were they make billions of dollars each year. They even have gift shops attached to the churches selling books, videos, toys, etc... and not cheap might I add, for their followers to get. There have been services where the minister gets people to buy his new book. Its no surprise that theses ministers live extremely well.
I'm not saying atheists don't, but statistically speaking you donate less than Christians. It's unconstitutional to enforce churches to prove they're not for profit, churches by definition are not real churches if their purposes are for the accumulation of money. I say we have a vote, and we know which side will loose it.
@AtheistTower Most atheist do give to charities h/e most do it anonymously or to small charity programs. I myself don't trust most big charities like cures for disease or feed some kid over seas. Most of those have been found to be frauds or only a small amount of money goes to the need itself. H/e I gladly go to a FF breakfasts to support a local vet getting his house altered for his wheelchair or a bar party that goes to help a mom pay for kids chemo treatments. I can't write those off.
Can you back up that claim that 'most atheists give to charities'? On the other hand, the most honest and best to charities around are often Christian or nature or ran by Christians (e.g. Tear Fund).
@AtheistTower Sadly there aren't statics backing it up, but most atheist apply on their taxes many charities they give to. As for the xian charities, many of them have been found to be frauds. Some aren't charities at all, but political campagains to fight abortion and gay rights. Thats why I go to small charities run by small groups that show their records.
There is evidence however to show that atheists are more likely to be socialists (even communists actually) and lean left politically, there is also evidence that shows that socialists are less likely to donate to charities and would rather use other's money to pay via taxation. LGBT organisations run as 'non for profit' with tax exemption, how is it wrong for organisations like NOM to run and ask for donations?
@AtheistTower First off the so called communist were devote xians until there leaders wanted the power the churches had. Atheist fighting for socialist ideals that aren't communist like free or low cost healthcare, control of big business that are destroying our economy, isn't unreasonable and would help more ppl than allowing big business make slaves out of the middle class. Xians often support big business that cause theses problems. As for the NOM why is denying rights to people a charity?
No they weren't. Mao was never a xian. Studies also show that atheists are more likely to support big government, so ultimately they are compelled to worship something else. Giving to charity has nothing to do with evolution, I'm a biology teacher myself, altruism in regards to charity is almost the antithesis of natural selection.
@AtheistTower First off you are only talking about one kind of communist. I was talking about communist Russia. Sec. Just because atheist support the gov. getting involved in control of big business and health care doesn't mean they will seek to worship something else. Another lie by the xian right, who support big business who have sweat shops in 3rd world countries and treat their employees like crap.
Ironically, it will be these oh so "evil" coorporations who will ultimately bring about the middle class in asia and bring millions out of poverty. A big government or the UN on the other hand are failures at bringing about such change.
Indeed I am a secondary school biology and chemistry teacher, and a biochemistry graduate. Social evolution is based around unsubstantiated evolutionary psychology, I'm not saying it's untrue, but that it's not solid science.
@AtheistTower 1st off I don't use terms like evil b/c they are subjective. Sec. sweat shops helping 3rd world countries? Hmmm.. like they do in south america, where the ppl are coming to the USA b/c the eco has been destroyed by theses big business? Or the dangerous fire hazardous sweat shops in Asia were ppl are treated cruelly & even killed? And what is doing that to our USA eco? Taking away our middle class and putting ppl into poverty? Causing us to crash then receive our bail out money?
@AT As for social evolution, the patterns are clear. We see this in our hx as our societies developed. Trades that harmed society like stealing, murder, etc... were frowned in all successive societies. The charities were also found in early soc. to keep the ppl 2gether & avoid soc. chaos. Charity break downs during food shortages in nearly all societies. Again the facts back this up. The mentality that religion is the cause is unfounded. Plenty of religious ppl are far from charitable.
@AtheistTower Also you still can't argue that xianity is also socialist, but more onto the common person rather than the big business. I really have an issue with people trying to tell me what I can do with my own body, who I can sleep with or marry and other rights that they wish to take away. But free or at least affordable health care is wrong? How many people work full time or more and can't afford to go to a doctor? Plenty! even those in our health care fields!
@AtheistTower I was talking about social evolution, which is how our society evolved. Helping one another to survive enhanced our survival. Humans aren't solo creatures. This isn't about natural section, but social development and the evolution of our society. And as for being a bio teacher, really at 21? Hmmm.. maybe a student. But I seriously doubt teacher. Plus a teacher would know about social evolution and would have figured that out.
@AtheistTower Seriously take a look at what big businesses are doing to the USA and to third world countries with their sweat shop labor. Its horrible! And as for socialistic views, well xians want to tell us what to do with our bodies, who we should marry, what drugs we should be allowed to take and how we live our daily lives. They only attack socialism when it comes to protecting big businesses interest. But for the individual person they want us living under their strict socialist order.
@AtheistTower I also would like to point out that most people by nature are charitable. That is not because of a belief in a god, but basic survival of human in society. Its part of evolution. Its the monotheist who started the BS that being charitable requires a belief in a god. Its a down right lie. Btw the xian museum of creation cost 27,000,000 million dollars to make, which would have fed and housed many of the homeless and other people suffering.
@AtheistTower BTW I personally feel that if something is labeled as a charity, they should be required to have all their finical records open to the public. That way we know where the money is going too. There was a feed the children charity run by a xian group that was pocketing 70 cent of every dollar for "advertising." Big schandel in the 80s.
Another interesting point I heard from a pastor in the pulpit once: Some 50 years ago, a pastor didn't have to pay taxes on his salary! Some deal that was!
@Almamater8888 preachers don't make a salary and if you tax churches they can impose their values into law. if you tax them they have some kind of influence over decisions.
That 47% pays their taxes, they however end up with out a deficit and owe no FURTHER taxes. Two points can't prove each other, circular reasoning. Those 47% have nothing to do with the church, trying to use them as being included with the church in not paying taxes, is dishonest.
"That 47% pays their taxes, they however end up with out a deficit and owe no FURTHER taxes."
That is a lie...if your talking about income taxes.
"trying to use them as being included with the church in not paying taxes, is dishonest."
How is that being dishonest? Churches don't pay income tax, neither do 47% of Americans. Can you tell me what's different about it and why I can't make this comparison?
@54tumelo56 The 47% are paying income taxes, they simply do not have a deficit in mount paid and amount owed. Which is why they do not "pay" income taxes during "tax season"... There is no comparison to be made between someone paying their income tax in advance, versus someone who does not pay them in the first place.
That is how it's dishonest. That 47% pays, the church does not.
@nerhu59 nerhu59, you admitted yourself that 47% do not pay income taxes and that's accurate. So why are you going back on it now? If you don't make more then what it costs to live then you cant afford to pay taxes, thus you do not pay taxes, and have no tax burden. All the money they "pay" they get back in a refund so the government does not keep their money, and sometimes they get more back, which means they are taking money from the government. Churches certainly don't do that.
@54tumelo56 Income tax pays the interest to the fed it doesn't pay for roads, schools, etc these are paid for by use taxes and various hidden in cost taxes that everyone pays anytime they buy anything. if you get money back it is a Refund of other taxes that you have paid thru the year, they are only taking from the government if they have no job and their only source of income is from the gov. like welfare or a public worker. Churches should have to keep better records and pay taxes
"The 47 percent number is not wrong. [...] But the modifiers here — federal and income — are important. Income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay. There are also payroll taxes and investment taxes, among others. And, of course, people pay state and local taxes, too."By JAKE SIMPSON, Atlantic wire. From the TAX FACTS, Tax policy center.
@nerhu59 "it was about those that do not owe federal taxes, and therefore have none to pay." like churches?
"income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay. There are also payroll taxes and investment taxes, among others. And, of course, people pay state and local taxes, too." Same thing goes for churches. They are not exempt from all taxes. Not twisting facts, just being fair.
@54tumelo56 No, your not, where is that 40% coming from then? If not from those who don't pay them, that really do... When all tax exemptions are taken into account, it is estimated that the average family may pay up to $1,000 in extra taxes every year to make up for the lost revenue not received from churches and religious groups.
Basically they are taking advantage of services they are not paying for.
@nerhu59 "the average family may pay up to $1,000 in extra taxes every year to make up for the lost revenue not received from churches and religious groups."
It's not "lost" revenue. It's revenue the government never had. Just like the government is never gonna have revenue from people without a tax burden, and therefor DO NOT pay taxes. Which happens to be 47 percent of Americans right now. We're talkin about income taxes right?
Jesusfullofit, Jesus did not make religion a thought crime..
@54tumelo56 re: "Jesusfullofit, Jesus did not make religion a thought crime..". Yes, he did. If you do not think his religion is the 'one true religion' and believe in another religion or worship another god or no god, then it is a 'crime' to him and his daddy which you will be punished for in hell for all of eternity. Where else does religious beliefs reside if not in your MIND?
"If churches don't have to pay taxes, they also can't call the fire department when they catch fire. Sorry reverend, that's one of those services that goes along with paying in. I'll use the fire department I pay for. You can pray for rain."
@54tumelo56 , "Half of America", really? There are that many churches catching on fire in America? Maybe you god is trying to tell you something, and your not getting it... I suppose you think it is okay for illegals to partake in Medicaid without contributing also? You can't get for free what everyone else must pay for, that is not right.
@54tumelo56, if you're referring to the last poll that said half of Americans don't pay taxes, it was about those that do not owe federal taxes, and therefore have none to pay. Don't try and twists facts to suit your needs.
Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral in SoCal is 50+ million in debt. (how is this allowed to happen?)... Now they are seeking BANKRUPTCY protection... after never paying a dime in taxes. Hundreds of tax paying small companies such as caterers, contractors etc are going under because GOD didn't come through. Because there isn't one. What could be more obvious? Bankruptcy is for businesses, not cults. Put them all in jail for fleecing good citizens.
Don't you think that a better focus would be to take on the banks that suck the life blood out of small businesses and communities resulting in debt slavery? How about getting rid of the armaments industry that is feeding international war?
Atheists and agnostics,God is on your side.He does not seek to condemn anyone.He seeks to bless,to give joy and peace.Read the story of the "good Samaritan".
TheEaglestar1 2 weeks ago
@TheEaglestar1 wow--please read your own bible--not just the feel good parts. That's all.
sepiasiren 1 day ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@sepiasiren Hello.I have read the entire Bible.If you'd like to elaborate on the meaning behind your comment,please go ahead.Much appreciated.
TheEaglestar1 1 day ago
@TheEaglestar1 "he does not condemn anyone" Only homosexuals, infidels, and those deemed worthy to go to hell...'He seeks to bless, to give joy and Peace" Jesus told ppl hate their families and that he was bringing a sword to divide them. The Good Samaritan is a great story--so is the tale about a man who asked god to give him a win in battle and in return he would sacrifice the first person who came out of his front door. The person was his daughter. He killed her.
sepiasiren 23 hours ago
@sepiasiren Firstly,please be assured of my kind intentions to you,a fellow human being who I do not know anything about, yet care very much for.Textual converse can be so easily misinterpreted.
What I said was,"He does not seek to condemn anyone".You misquoted me with "he does not condemn anyone".These are not the same.
The difference in meaning between what I said and what you perceive that I said is as follows.
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
@sepiasiren God does not seek to condemn anyone and has provided a means whereby anyone can easily escape condemnation.
Ezekiel 18:23,"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
2 Peter 3:9,"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
@sepiasiren 1 Timothy 2:3-6,"3This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men". Romans 8:1,"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,"
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
@sepiasiren Matthew 19:25-26,"25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
@sepiasiren John 3:5-7,"5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
So,let's summarise the points so far.God doesnot seek to condemn anyone.He is patient withpeople,wanting them to come to a point where they are not condemned.God has provided a means whereby....
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
@sepiasiren ...people are not condemned(through Jesus Christ's atoning death and a new life through being born again).This brings us onto the next point.It is easy.Not difficult.
Ephesians 2:8-9,"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast."
What does this mean,ie grace?Well,grace is a free gift that is not(and cannot) be earned.A free gift just needs to be received.
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
@sepiasiren We receive the free gift of being born again (which frees us from condemnation and allows us to live a more full life here and now on earth) simply by faith.Faith means relationship and trust in God that He will do as He says and trust in Jesus Christ that His death is sufficient to atone for all our faults(and I wish to point out that I personally have many) and also in allowing the Holy Spirit to motivate us to love God and other people just as the "good Samaritan".
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
@sepiasiren I hope that this is a comprehensive coverage of the main point.I will happily discuss more on this if you wish.The other two points which you made can also be discussed but I would like to ensure this first point is covered completely first.What do you think?
TheEaglestar1 10 hours ago
" You want a say in Government ? Fine ! Buy a ticket, like everybody else ! "
-George Carlin on churches weighing in on politics
HENRYPATRICK1736 2 weeks ago
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chrlpolk 1 month ago
The 1st Amendment was meant so that laws wouldn't be written specifically to affect religions; not to exempt religions from laws in general.
And as pointed out in the video, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", yet to establish a new religion, you must meet Congress' legislated requirement of what a religion is? That seems to contradict.
chrlpolk 1 month ago
Very clear, unbiased, well thought out position. I agree.
livingdeadgrl18 2 months ago
I think the Church gets its money from people who go to church and donate at the offertory. This money is spent towards maintaining the church. Taxing the church would just leach off people twice, and it would not be fair because why can't you tax the synogogue or the mosque, or a scientology church? I'm not an athiest, or a full Christian, more like an agnostic. If i'm wrong, tell me where most religious people get their money off.
redrooster241 2 months ago
@redrooster241 Something like 150 million people are Christian in America so if each donated only 5 bucks per year the churchs would make 750million tax free. You would also account that each one of those people could get a tax deduction for donating. Most rich people do that so they can feel good about themselves donating but in reality they just take taxes from the government and pour it into the church.
infinitewobdrahpa 1 month ago
@infinitewobdrahpa That's a very good point. I don't live in USA so I don't really know how things are run. Why don't we tax other major religions?
redrooster241 1 month ago
@SeraphimGolgotha I see you don't get out much lol
Sssssnnaakke 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
church and religion are a great tool that politicians use to keep people dormant.
guayacan07 3 months ago
We should change the law and tax the hell out of them!
parkert51 3 months ago
Appraise the lord! Tax Church Property!
helvet666 3 months ago
I agree but Separation of Church and State keeps the US from taxing churches.
vottoduder 3 months ago
@vottoduder By that logic pastors, being associated with the church, are beyond US law as laid down by the state.
Seperation of church and state means that Churches are not given special consideration under the law, such as by giving them tax exemptions, or by giving them children via morning school prayers.
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
@neverfearchrisishere Churches, not pastors, are beyond tax laws which I disagree with. But thats our law unfortunately.
vottoduder 3 months ago
Absolutely tax the churches! They should have to file all the same tax paperwork as any other "non-profit" organization, and only get a tax break on those PORTIONS of their activities that any other non-profit organization would.
GodVlogger 4 months ago in playlist Religion - Political - Business 12
@GodVlogger I agree. Except for the churches which clearly are not Non-Profits. There should be a limit on annual income which if exceeded should be taxed identically to all other corporations, which is what they are.
jacksawild 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@jacksawild Well the only way that churches could/should qualify as "non-profit" organizations are by filing tax forms like every other non-profit organization does. Then the truly charitable activities of the churches may qualify for tax exemption. But all the other stuff would pay taxes just like everyone else.
GodVlogger 2 months ago
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mysticjbyrd 5 months ago in playlist More videos from AtheistExperience
This has been flagged as spam show
Use your God given intuition: who shows a higher consciousness level? who kills or who respects life?, who steal or who share? who enslave or who frees? who envy or who love? who is selfish or who is selfless? who is materialistic or who is spiritual?. We are due to move to the next consciousness level by rejecting all materialism and selfishness. Those were Jesus teachings, which atheism reject. God will act, and anyone that refuse to move may be expendable. Open your eyes before is too late.
dejesusluisx 5 months ago
Tax everyone even churches, atheist groups, and fat lazy welfare frauds.
kidney122398 5 months ago
The only time AronRa has to keep quiet is when he's sitting beside Matt on this show.
ChipArgyle 5 months ago
Sign the petition! wh(dot)gov/gUn
Fictilitious 5 months ago
Would the church of the flying spaghetti monster qualify?
Hopefulfilment 5 months ago
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'They are taxed you twat.'
Yes I fully agree however the churches tax the people who go there are asked to give donations which are nothing more than a faith tax.
MsOneiroi77 6 months ago
The federal government shouldn't tax anyone. It should be allotted a percentage of state income once a month. It should be uniform throughout the states so if the best number turns out to be10% then every state gives the federal government 10%. States should have no taxes other than one flat sales tax. Also, no government in America federal, state, or local should be allowed to profit from crime, no fines at all.
KenMacMillan 7 months ago
Religion is a 100 billion dollar a year industry in the U.S. non-profit my ass.
SonOfNye 7 months ago 19
Tax the Atheist Experience while you're at it, and anyone else that promotes falsehood and politics.
sum137 7 months ago
@sum137 They are taxed you twat.
brewerbrian420 6 months ago
if you tax them, won't they then enter the political process for real and vote as a block making the US into a theocracy overnight?
aegisgfx 7 months ago
@aegisgfx They already are in the political process. And they vote as a bloc. And not only churches. For example, 4 Hasidic Jews from New Square,NY are convicted of fraud, sentenced to jail. Hillary Clinton is campaigning for state senator, goes to New Square, talks to the leaders. Election day comes, 1359 out or 1369 voters in New Square vote for Hillary. Shortly thereafter, Bill Clinton pardons the New Square Four.
henrybird 6 months ago
@Lodine66 Because of all the harm its doing. You're the dipshit now.lol I bet you didn't think of that before making your childish comment. How old are you? 12
SuperMrAtheist 7 months ago
@Lodine66 taxing churches has no bearing on freedom of belief, you dont need a wooden barack with a symbol atop to believe what you believe , when you exit the church or if you are for months away from that organisation will you stop believing? NO because churches are not obligatory for faith they only are supports. you can believe whatever you want but you canot expect other faiths and people without religion to pay for your organisation that suports your faith in your imaginary friends.
86Corvus 7 months ago
1st amendment alows freedom of excercising your religious faith. it is not there to protect churches as organisations. faith doesnt require more than 1 person and can be freely excercised without a church. if you want to organise your faith and build a church for it thats something youve created as a suport to your faith but its not bearing on wheather you beleive. taxing your church has no bearing on freedom of your belief. your belief is free its just that others dont have to pay for it too
86Corvus 7 months ago
The government will do everything in its power to maintain tax exemption. Contrary to what many of you may believe, 501c3 is not intended to help churches - it is meant to subjugate them to the State. Under the disguise of financial benefits, churches are told what they can and cannot say. Google "How the IRS controls churches".
IoannisClimacus 7 months ago
reuters reports the greeks have started a tax the church facebook page, can any one send a link to it please, i have searched facebook cant find the specific page, 100,000 greeks have subscribed according to reuters? Please help
cliveandmat 7 months ago
@Lodine66 I agree that the churches should be able to exercise their religion freely. But they should not be tax exempt. When churches are tax exempt we pay the taxes for them. No one should have to pay for a religion they don't agree with.
misswhitegrape 7 months ago
@Lodine66 But to believe in the existence of god based on a book that was written thousands of years ago by non-eyewitnesses and is filled with doctrines that, if practiced, would lead to a prison sentence in modern society is somehow not nuts? Why? Just because it never changes?
qac1pitt 7 months ago
I'm not atheist but there should be separation of church and state and the churches should be taxed.
If the church owns a charity the charity should get tax exempt as long as it meets these requirements:
-Separate from the church
-Does not deny employment/services to people they don't agree with. (atheist, gays, etc)
-Excepts all appropriate donations even if they don't agree with them. (Harry Potter stuff, Twilight stuff, etc)
misswhitegrape 7 months ago
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@Lodine66 You are a retarded person. you are the reason the rest of the world hates the U.S. You believe in God? Do you think he would like you calling people names.
SuperMrAtheist 7 months ago
@Lodine66 You sound like a brainwashed religious fanatic. You may not be, but that's what you're coming off as. It is a bit hypocritical for you to diss ianman6 for have no certainty, but claiming to be certain god exists. Many people change their views on things when they learn something new that contradicts it. Sadly, with religion, this basic reasoning can sometimes fail, like you and your beliefs on evolution.
Spazztic52 8 months ago
@Lodine66 Fuck you right back. Who's the brainwashed asshole here? You're the one who believes in a fucking sky daddy fairy tale for grown ups. Please, give me a fucking break, I'm not 5 anymore. And us evolving from neanderthals? Wtf are you reading? Is the science material in your area from the 1800s? Because that would explain your mental retardation. On a side note, I know some 'fags' as you call them who would lay you the fuck out in a second, you arrogant cunt.
ianman6 8 months ago
@Lodine66 Wtf does this have to do with Marxism? Nothing. You believe in God be cause you're too dumb to think for yourself so you are easily convinced by other, smarter-sounding people than you who also can't think for themselves.
ianman6 8 months ago
I think taxing the churches would help the economy.
kidney122398 8 months ago
The tax free status automatically given to established religions is given to them because it is established that they are a religion already right? Not because they are a preferred religion ah? It is just government trying to be more efficient or more lazy depending on how you want to look at it.
masluxx 8 months ago
soooo......wait you want to make the government dependent on tax from churches?
the churches are rich.....and its a lot of cash, up to 10% of a person's earning.....that is a lot of money your standing to take....how could the government remain separate when one of your largest cash cows is religion .....this is a bad idea....for both side.
kevinjjfr 8 months ago
its all donations....they do charity....
kevinjjfr 8 months ago
I'm from the UK. Can someone please explain to me in simple terms what is the first amendment and how does it apply here?
TheSpartan2910 8 months ago
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@TheSpartan2910 separation of church and state, freedom of speech, press, religion, etc
kevinjjfr 8 months ago
I am an atheist, and I don't think churches should be taxed. I think it would backfire, and give churches more of a foothold in government, which is already happening too much. It would give them grounds and standing to say "Hey, we're taxpayers too! Therefore we DEMAND ________________", and all too many politicians will use this as one more way to chip away at the wall of separation. We need to keep religion out of politics--taxes will inevitably bring them in more.
DandAinTac 8 months ago 2
@DandAinTac Churches have more influence in government because they get away with tax evasion.
Strangerinasland 8 months ago
@Strangerinasland But how does tax evasion increase one's influence with the government? I don't see the connection. I don't like religion--especially organized religion, and the bigger and thicker that wall of separation is, the better. If churches paid taxes, wouldn't that give them leverage? Wouldn't they be able to say--"hey, we're taxpayers too, we should have some say-so in how things are run"? I know, they already try to, but wouldn't this breach that wall and give them more leverage?
DandAinTac 8 months ago
@DandAinTac I probably should have put some qualifier in there rather than make it a flat out statement of fact. I don't think we can know for certain which is better, specially since there are other factors involved.
I'm thinking tho that politicians knowing churches are being treated better in this 1 way probably makes them more in the mindset to treat them better in other ways.
Strangerinasland 8 months ago
@Strangerinasland Hmmm. I see your point, and I suppose it's possible. I think government is already predisposed to treat churches with enormous deference no matter what. I'm afraid it would just open a door wider. I want to slam that door shut and nail it shut. I think the whole issue deserves a long thorough debate though. I'm for anything that will strengthen and reinforce separation of church and state.
DandAinTac 8 months ago
I agree with everything Matt said. What most people don't realize about churches being tax exempt is any church that owns property, building, homes, etc, that they can claim as being used by the church for the church than it is Tax exempt. We have a pastor here that has one of the largest Churches in Alaska, they have their own school, which people pay for, and he own over a dozen large homes, condos, duplexes that he claims if used for the church. All of it is tax exempt and a load of shit.
Strictlypointless 9 months ago
Damn right's the churches should be taxed. In my opinion all churches, mosques, etc should be closed down and torn down. People that want to worship or follow this nonsense can do so in their own homes. Just Sayin'
Allanfries 9 months ago 2
@Allanfries no they can't, and maybe i think this channel being torn down for all you idiots meeting here...how are you going to have separation of church and state when your drawling in billions from churches, if it comes down to it, the churches will win....think USSR, Pope John Paul shows up, people start screaming "WE WANT GOD"
kevinjjfr 8 months ago
This is an interesting discussion. I oftened wondered why Churches don't pay any taxes? I know that at one time the Church was really part of the ruling government but today there seems to be no reason why this old law exists. In fact why should there be any tax exemptions at all for anyone. Right now it seems that the rich can hire lawyers to get deductions and exemptions. Why not just tax everyone at the same rate????
chairde 9 months ago
@chairde mainly due to the fact that most of the money goes to charity, my parish priest got about 150$ a mouth in pay, the majority of the money is spent *in my parish* on a parish school, which holds 800 kids, and is currently the only thing standing in the way of 32 kids in every class in both the local middle schools, the reminder of this money is going to Japan at the moment, we have found a sister school to help rebuild and have already sent them a good deal of money :) good enough?
kevinjjfr 8 months ago
@kevinjjfr So what is your point? Are you trying to tell me that poor people don't pay taxes. The working poor pay taxes out of their paychecks don't they. Then why should your Church be exempt? It doesn't matter what your church does, that is not and has never been the point. Good works have nothing to do with the payment of taxes. You shouldn't get a free pass from taxes. Instead of sending money to Japan you should pay property tax that will benefit our society.
chairde 8 months ago
i said aboot Taxing the Religions years ago.
if they are sayin Money is a Material Thing then why do religion rake in the Material money, why dose the Pope have trillions. and not home the homless, and other things, i say TAX them all to the Poor House
realnameunknown2011 9 months ago
Your confused with the term "CHURCH" it isn't a building it's the believers in Christ basically the people are the church. So how can you say that we should be taxed we are being taxed everybody pays taxes. Stop hating on the church don't be a hater dude
Brotherfireball1988 9 months ago
@Brotherfireball1988 There was no "hate" in his statement. He simply said that the constitution specifically prohibits the government from sanctioning any religion. If the government gives tax exempt status to churches, then it must decide what "church" is tax exempt and which is not, thereby sanctioning one church over another. If no distinction is made, then fraud runs rampant. The only other logical alternative is to not give churches tax exempt status as a church. I support the latter.
coolgreyoneabby 9 months ago
@hellgun949494 Depends on who you ask but yes the evidence points to the lack of a deity, not to mention that most gods depicted are more complex than what was started with making the notion ridiculous.
Personally, I am open to the idea a god exists if there was proof that one exists, however this would not mean I would worship it in anyway or change my life around this, it would just be another fact of my existence.
roadkill1001 10 months ago
i'm a agnostic .. i hate church and most christians but taxing the church is fucking stupid.. do you think most churches rake in money? and the corrupted ones that do.. you don't think they would find a way around your new tax? and for someone who thinks god is real and thinks they have to give 10% of their income to god just to have the government take it away ... thats moral? you guys are just haters go drinks some hateraid
jetset808 10 months ago
@jetset808 your mostly correct, i think the church pulls in a lot of cash....other then that your 100% right, if they start taxing churches, well why give 10% of our income to see it taken away? the churches will just meet in open field and stop providing services like schools, and charity work to save cost....the other thing is of course if it comes down to church VS state, state's going down.
kevinjjfr 8 months ago
@hellgun949494 Most athiest do realize that a god could exist, however there is not enough evidence that says a god does. It is kind of like some religious people are open to the thought that a god may not exist. The type of person that you are reffering to is actually what is called an Anti-theist as in they are one hundred percent against the idea that a god exists. On a side note I do ask you, please don't follow this up with a version of Pascal's wager.
jmcclelland2007 10 months ago
Churches should be taxed unless they put 50% of their proceeds into feeding and clothing and sheltering the poor and caring for sick and elderly.
heartfire451 10 months ago
Pastors make money and don't pay an income tax. That's a sin by the Bible's logic haha.
2b3the1 10 months ago
Yes, tax the churches. Why should they be exempt? Everyone else is taxed to death.
It's all gravy for the churches.
cheeriosinabowl 10 months ago
I've heard that taxing churches would allow them more benefits in politics, such as lobbying. I'm too forgetful to have my own opinion on the matter, but it is something to think about.
TuahShinguru 10 months ago
@TuahShinguru
Martin said that.
Quintinohthree 10 months ago
1st off, I am an athiest but, I do not think they should be taxed. By doing so, you are entangling religion $ with government $ and then the dif. churches would have more of a say in the running of government: no taxation w/o representation. I do however think that churches who are exempt, should have totally transparent books to make sure there is no $ going to certian political campaigns and acting like a puppet master.
nugglenunny 11 months ago
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RayTech70 11 months ago
Yeah the immortal jellyfish negates the entire Bible. Just that one creature alone. Sorry the bible says: No immortal creature or being exists outside of heaven and hell. Well shit, that's so fucking clearly WRONG. I'll no longer show ANY religious person ANY respect. Nor will I debate them. Science won. Religion outright lost. The war is over. Evolutionary quantum leap. + immortal being.
ScrewGlennBeck 11 months ago
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The very first words of the Bill of Rights read: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Exempting religious organizations from paying taxes is a clear case of our government "respecting an establishment of religion," precisely what the framers intended to prohibit.
robertdexter102591 11 months ago
man , here in Holland Tax is going mad.
you even pay tax for the pets .
so ill bet the church here pays Tax too, although im not sure.
ImmortalUniverse 11 months ago 2
I totally agree with taxing churches! The government would be back in the black in a matter of MONTHS!
morgannicgregor 1 year ago 58
@morgannicgregor I don't see why churches should be able to evade taxes others must pay but it definitely would not put the government in the black.
Strangerinasland 8 months ago
This sounds too rational for government and definitely religion.
xbox1768 1 year ago 50
i have always hated that theme track but i have heard it so many times, its been driven into my skull
desconocidos27 1 year ago
Chuches should be treated the same as buisnesses. Weather or not for prophet.
brokenseeker 1 year ago
churches get no profit what so ever!
the minister from my church doesn't even get paid!!!
oleh2007 1 year ago
@oleh2007 Oh, there are many churches that make a profit. They just don't have to be transparent about their books. Correct me if I'm wrong, but church "employees" do get taxed on their "salaries", and the tax exempt status only applies to the churches properties, which are copious. Many people, myself included, see this automatic tax exemption as a tacit endorsement of religion by our government.
richwfd2002 1 year ago
@richwfd2002 yes you're right, if ministers get paid they do need to pay the federal income tax all the taxes.
but the concept of taxing churches is as ridiculous as lets say taxing kindergatens and schools.
besides most of the money that churches receive stays in the community, it goes for charity and maintance of the church itself. besides churches still pay thier bills.
oleh2007 1 year ago
@oleh2007
Charity and maintenance on the pastor's Rolls Royce maybe.
scourfish 1 year ago
@scourfish nooooo, Graig drives an old Pontiac... Ministery is what he does on Sundays he's got a full-time job.
oleh2007 1 year ago
@oleh2007
Your pastor is working for the wrong ministry, then.
scourfish 1 year ago
@scourfish he doesn't do that for money. And that is the something that the fat bold guy from the video doesn't understand!
oleh2007 1 year ago
@oleh2007 Bullshit Most churches keep 70% of all their income. Including dvds, bookmakers, Schools. How in the hell is taxing churches like taxing kindergartens? That is shit coming from your mouth. If we taxed churches. There would be no more U.S. debt, free health care for everyone. No more starving people in the U.S. Less taxes for us. More money for everyone. But you don't care about that do you?
SuperMrAtheist 7 months ago
@richwfd2002 and besides what is so wrong about endorsing religion?
oleh2007 1 year ago
@oleh2007 The Establishment Clause prohibits government from making adherence to a religion relevant in any way to a person's standing in the political community. That means endorsing religion.
Codfert970 1 year ago
@oleh2007 what is he than homeless?
Beatnick79 1 year ago
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@oleh2007 what is he than homeless?
Beatnick79 1 year ago
@oleh2007 What? Are you joking or are you retarded. Churches get profit. the largest mega church earn over 70million dollars last year. Just one church. The minister from that church does not have a job. He works full time with his church. He lives in a 1.5 million house. Drives a 70 thousand dollar car. I think he's making money. Just because your minister doesn't make money doesn't mean everyone else is.
SuperMrAtheist 7 months ago
DO NOT tax the church. If we tax the church, then they can get into our public schools a lot easier.
TheGreatRL 1 year ago
@TheGreatRL No they can't. It will be another step of getting religion out of the country.
SuperMrAtheist 7 months ago
@SuperMrAtheist When the churches get taxed, it means they play by the same rules as we do. And if they do, they can run the country a lot easier.
TheGreatRL 7 months ago
I don't think church needs to be taxed.. Its not really a business, more like people gathering together for an "Interest".
-Athiest.
rangergxi 1 year ago
I watch this every sunday... like church.
rangergxi 1 year ago
"The 47 percent number is not wrong. [...] But the modifiers here — federal and income — are important."
This was your exact quote and now your going back on it. And do you know what tax returns are? You act like you are oblivious to the fact that people get there money back.
54tumelo56 1 year ago
I never said 47% do not pay income taxes, I said they do not have a deficit at the end of the year (i.e. they paid them during the year), therefore they do not need to pay further taxes. There is a big difference in paying enough of your income tax year round without owing at the end of the year, and not paying taxes period.
nerhu59 1 year ago
Non-profit atheist organisations should be taxed into oblivion, and atheists should be made to donate an equal percentage of their income to charities that christians (who incidently donate more) do.
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower Actually many atheist donate both time and money to many charities. I myself volunteered as an EMT for my local ambulances company and took in two teenagers living on the streets. I feel all churches should be taxed unless proven they aren't making a profit. Which many wouldn't be able to show. Evangelicals are some of the worst offenders. But taxing a group because of non belief is silly and forced charity takes away from the very concept of charity.
Boudiga 1 year ago
Anton LaVey beleived taxing the churches could clear national debt. And the Church of Satan does pay, so why shouldn't all the others?
Symos 1 year ago
I would never give you a dime !!!
purplehaze5562 1 year ago
The preacher at every church I've attended made a salary. The rest of your point is nonsensical.
Almamater8888 1 year ago
@Almamater8888 Also he was drafted. if you want to hate, fine. Realize though that hes still a human being.
IAmTheCthulhu 1 year ago
@Almamater8888
Of course they did you fucktard. It's their job to preach, it's a full time job, a church doesn't function without one.
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower You should learn to make your point without name-calling. It's childish. Furthermore, it's overkill for the comment I made. I was simply stating in response to IAmTheCthulhu that the pastors I've known did indeed draw a salary. Also, he gave no good reason for saying that by taxing churches it will enable them to impose their values into law. It makes no sense. But churches, like any business, do indeed need to be taxed, because that's what they are, a money-making business.
Almamater8888 1 year ago
@Almamater8888
I apologise for my language. However, very few churches are businesses by definition; their purpose is not to generate money, they are not for profit, irrespective of how many actually make a profit. Churches that are set up for profit are not real churches.
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower Actually there is a large number of churches (I'm not sure if they are the majority) but still a large number, were they make billions of dollars each year. They even have gift shops attached to the churches selling books, videos, toys, etc... and not cheap might I add, for their followers to get. There have been services where the minister gets people to buy his new book. Its no surprise that theses ministers live extremely well.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@Boudiga
I'm not saying atheists don't, but statistically speaking you donate less than Christians. It's unconstitutional to enforce churches to prove they're not for profit, churches by definition are not real churches if their purposes are for the accumulation of money. I say we have a vote, and we know which side will loose it.
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower Most atheist do give to charities h/e most do it anonymously or to small charity programs. I myself don't trust most big charities like cures for disease or feed some kid over seas. Most of those have been found to be frauds or only a small amount of money goes to the need itself. H/e I gladly go to a FF breakfasts to support a local vet getting his house altered for his wheelchair or a bar party that goes to help a mom pay for kids chemo treatments. I can't write those off.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@Boudiga
Can you back up that claim that 'most atheists give to charities'? On the other hand, the most honest and best to charities around are often Christian or nature or ran by Christians (e.g. Tear Fund).
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower Sadly there aren't statics backing it up, but most atheist apply on their taxes many charities they give to. As for the xian charities, many of them have been found to be frauds. Some aren't charities at all, but political campagains to fight abortion and gay rights. Thats why I go to small charities run by small groups that show their records.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@Boudiga
There is evidence however to show that atheists are more likely to be socialists (even communists actually) and lean left politically, there is also evidence that shows that socialists are less likely to donate to charities and would rather use other's money to pay via taxation. LGBT organisations run as 'non for profit' with tax exemption, how is it wrong for organisations like NOM to run and ask for donations?
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower First off the so called communist were devote xians until there leaders wanted the power the churches had. Atheist fighting for socialist ideals that aren't communist like free or low cost healthcare, control of big business that are destroying our economy, isn't unreasonable and would help more ppl than allowing big business make slaves out of the middle class. Xians often support big business that cause theses problems. As for the NOM why is denying rights to people a charity?
Boudiga 1 year ago
@Boudiga
No they weren't. Mao was never a xian. Studies also show that atheists are more likely to support big government, so ultimately they are compelled to worship something else. Giving to charity has nothing to do with evolution, I'm a biology teacher myself, altruism in regards to charity is almost the antithesis of natural selection.
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower First off you are only talking about one kind of communist. I was talking about communist Russia. Sec. Just because atheist support the gov. getting involved in control of big business and health care doesn't mean they will seek to worship something else. Another lie by the xian right, who support big business who have sweat shops in 3rd world countries and treat their employees like crap.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@Boudiga
Ironically, it will be these oh so "evil" coorporations who will ultimately bring about the middle class in asia and bring millions out of poverty. A big government or the UN on the other hand are failures at bringing about such change.
Indeed I am a secondary school biology and chemistry teacher, and a biochemistry graduate. Social evolution is based around unsubstantiated evolutionary psychology, I'm not saying it's untrue, but that it's not solid science.
AtheistTower 1 year ago
@AtheistTower 1st off I don't use terms like evil b/c they are subjective. Sec. sweat shops helping 3rd world countries? Hmmm.. like they do in south america, where the ppl are coming to the USA b/c the eco has been destroyed by theses big business? Or the dangerous fire hazardous sweat shops in Asia were ppl are treated cruelly & even killed? And what is doing that to our USA eco? Taking away our middle class and putting ppl into poverty? Causing us to crash then receive our bail out money?
Boudiga 1 year ago
@AT As for social evolution, the patterns are clear. We see this in our hx as our societies developed. Trades that harmed society like stealing, murder, etc... were frowned in all successive societies. The charities were also found in early soc. to keep the ppl 2gether & avoid soc. chaos. Charity break downs during food shortages in nearly all societies. Again the facts back this up. The mentality that religion is the cause is unfounded. Plenty of religious ppl are far from charitable.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@AtheistTower Also you still can't argue that xianity is also socialist, but more onto the common person rather than the big business. I really have an issue with people trying to tell me what I can do with my own body, who I can sleep with or marry and other rights that they wish to take away. But free or at least affordable health care is wrong? How many people work full time or more and can't afford to go to a doctor? Plenty! even those in our health care fields!
Boudiga 1 year ago
@AtheistTower I was talking about social evolution, which is how our society evolved. Helping one another to survive enhanced our survival. Humans aren't solo creatures. This isn't about natural section, but social development and the evolution of our society. And as for being a bio teacher, really at 21? Hmmm.. maybe a student. But I seriously doubt teacher. Plus a teacher would know about social evolution and would have figured that out.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@AtheistTower Seriously take a look at what big businesses are doing to the USA and to third world countries with their sweat shop labor. Its horrible! And as for socialistic views, well xians want to tell us what to do with our bodies, who we should marry, what drugs we should be allowed to take and how we live our daily lives. They only attack socialism when it comes to protecting big businesses interest. But for the individual person they want us living under their strict socialist order.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@AtheistTower I also would like to point out that most people by nature are charitable. That is not because of a belief in a god, but basic survival of human in society. Its part of evolution. Its the monotheist who started the BS that being charitable requires a belief in a god. Its a down right lie. Btw the xian museum of creation cost 27,000,000 million dollars to make, which would have fed and housed many of the homeless and other people suffering.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@AtheistTower BTW I personally feel that if something is labeled as a charity, they should be required to have all their finical records open to the public. That way we know where the money is going too. There was a feed the children charity run by a xian group that was pocketing 70 cent of every dollar for "advertising." Big schandel in the 80s.
Boudiga 1 year ago
@AtheistTower The 6,000 Mega churches in the U.S. that pull in between 20 to 70 million dollars a year would disagree with you.
SuperMrAtheist 7 months ago
Another interesting point I heard from a pastor in the pulpit once: Some 50 years ago, a pastor didn't have to pay taxes on his salary! Some deal that was!
Almamater8888 1 year ago
@Almamater8888 preachers don't make a salary and if you tax churches they can impose their values into law. if you tax them they have some kind of influence over decisions.
IAmTheCthulhu 1 year ago
How can we facilitate this happening in the US? And not only churches, but mosques, synagogues, and temples.
Almamater8888 1 year ago
It wasn't my opinion about the 1k in lost revs. see link
atheism.about.com/od/churchestaxexemptions/a/whyitmatters.htm
That 47% pays their taxes, they however end up with out a deficit and owe no FURTHER taxes. Two points can't prove each other, circular reasoning. Those 47% have nothing to do with the church, trying to use them as being included with the church in not paying taxes, is dishonest.
nerhu59 1 year ago
@nerhu59
"That 47% pays their taxes, they however end up with out a deficit and owe no FURTHER taxes."
That is a lie...if your talking about income taxes.
"trying to use them as being included with the church in not paying taxes, is dishonest."
How is that being dishonest? Churches don't pay income tax, neither do 47% of Americans. Can you tell me what's different about it and why I can't make this comparison?
54tumelo56 1 year ago
@54tumelo56 The 47% are paying income taxes, they simply do not have a deficit in mount paid and amount owed. Which is why they do not "pay" income taxes during "tax season"... There is no comparison to be made between someone paying their income tax in advance, versus someone who does not pay them in the first place.
That is how it's dishonest. That 47% pays, the church does not.
nerhu59 1 year ago
@nerhu59 nerhu59, you admitted yourself that 47% do not pay income taxes and that's accurate. So why are you going back on it now? If you don't make more then what it costs to live then you cant afford to pay taxes, thus you do not pay taxes, and have no tax burden. All the money they "pay" they get back in a refund so the government does not keep their money, and sometimes they get more back, which means they are taking money from the government. Churches certainly don't do that.
54tumelo56 1 year ago
@54tumelo56 Income tax pays the interest to the fed it doesn't pay for roads, schools, etc these are paid for by use taxes and various hidden in cost taxes that everyone pays anytime they buy anything. if you get money back it is a Refund of other taxes that you have paid thru the year, they are only taking from the government if they have no job and their only source of income is from the gov. like welfare or a public worker. Churches should have to keep better records and pay taxes
wanabyastick 1 year ago
"The 47 percent number is not wrong. [...] But the modifiers here — federal and income — are important. Income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay. There are also payroll taxes and investment taxes, among others. And, of course, people pay state and local taxes, too."By JAKE SIMPSON, Atlantic wire. From the TAX FACTS, Tax policy center.
nerhu59 1 year ago
@nerhu59 "it was about those that do not owe federal taxes, and therefore have none to pay." like churches?
"income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay. There are also payroll taxes and investment taxes, among others. And, of course, people pay state and local taxes, too." Same thing goes for churches. They are not exempt from all taxes. Not twisting facts, just being fair.
54tumelo56 1 year ago
@54tumelo56 No, your not, where is that 40% coming from then? If not from those who don't pay them, that really do... When all tax exemptions are taken into account, it is estimated that the average family may pay up to $1,000 in extra taxes every year to make up for the lost revenue not received from churches and religious groups.
Basically they are taking advantage of services they are not paying for.
Religion, Politics, and Taxes
By Austin Cline, About.com Guide
nerhu59 1 year ago
@nerhu59 "the average family may pay up to $1,000 in extra taxes every year to make up for the lost revenue not received from churches and religious groups."
It's not "lost" revenue. It's revenue the government never had. Just like the government is never gonna have revenue from people without a tax burden, and therefor DO NOT pay taxes. Which happens to be 47 percent of Americans right now. We're talkin about income taxes right?
Jesusfullofit, Jesus did not make religion a thought crime..
54tumelo56 1 year ago
@54tumelo56 re: "Jesusfullofit, Jesus did not make religion a thought crime..". Yes, he did. If you do not think his religion is the 'one true religion' and believe in another religion or worship another god or no god, then it is a 'crime' to him and his daddy which you will be punished for in hell for all of eternity. Where else does religious beliefs reside if not in your MIND?
yeshuahfullofit 1 year ago
"If churches don't have to pay taxes, they also can't call the fire department when they catch fire. Sorry reverend, that's one of those services that goes along with paying in. I'll use the fire department I pay for. You can pray for rain."
-R.D.
nerhu59 1 year ago
@nerhu59 Thank God that's not the case, then we'd have to deny nearly half of America of fire department services.
54tumelo56 1 year ago
@54tumelo56 , "Half of America", really? There are that many churches catching on fire in America? Maybe you god is trying to tell you something, and your not getting it... I suppose you think it is okay for illegals to partake in Medicaid without contributing also? You can't get for free what everyone else must pay for, that is not right.
nerhu59 1 year ago
@nerhu59 I was talking about the 40-some-odd percent of people that don't pay taxes...
54tumelo56 1 year ago
@54tumelo56, if you're referring to the last poll that said half of Americans don't pay taxes, it was about those that do not owe federal taxes, and therefore have none to pay. Don't try and twists facts to suit your needs.
nerhu59 1 year ago
Oh yeah!
Roper122 1 year ago
I already pay taxes. The government is the last place I want my money going when I pay tithes to my church.
54tumelo56 1 year ago
wait...if churches are taxes can't they act as private corporations??
Obscure128 1 year ago
Religion will NEVER be taxed because it is the perfect control tool for the system.
0toHero 1 year ago
Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral in SoCal is 50+ million in debt. (how is this allowed to happen?)... Now they are seeking BANKRUPTCY protection... after never paying a dime in taxes. Hundreds of tax paying small companies such as caterers, contractors etc are going under because GOD didn't come through. Because there isn't one. What could be more obvious? Bankruptcy is for businesses, not cults. Put them all in jail for fleecing good citizens.
sparky7718 1 year ago