@Gunman848...I just picked up the Ruger SR9 and now I'm having second thoughts about it....I heard a lot of feedback on different issues with it like barrel peening. The break in period is killing me because the slide won't close when loading unless I slingshot it ...I have to load it aggressively to get it to close all the way but anyways the Springfield XD was my other choice and I think I made the wrong one :(
I thought the 9mm had more penetration power than 45acp but the 45 had more stopping power?....This round is a beast with penetration and stopping power I think it's got the 9mm beat with both!...I gotta get one!
@bf2lover42 The .408 Cheytac may have been designed to retain its energy, but it still isn't battle proven like the .50BMG. One of the key attributes to a .45's ballistic performance is its low velocity, and the 5.56 will never be able to compete with a 7.62x51. It is ballistically inferior, and transfers far less KE. If you weren't aware, the Armed Forces are looking for slightly larger calibers in the AR platform.
@BRIKbushcraft Okay, so instead of coming up with the same reasoning you presented in your last post, you resorted with the "battle proven" argument. Which indeed is very pertinent. Still, does not show that the .50 BMG is "better" because of it's size.
5.56 is not inferior to 7.62x51 in the range it was supposed to perform - up to 300m. If you are talking about terminal ballistics, 5.56 is superior and if you are talking about trajectory, at 300m the 7.62 has no big advantage.
@bf2lover42 .50 BMG travels at 1153 FPS (Fastest available round), & the .408 travels at 1213 FPS (Also fastest available round). These velocity differences were noted INSIGNIFICANT by the USMC. They turned down Cheytac. The only militaries on planet earth that have employed the .408 Cheytac are Poland & Turkey. Between them, purchasing only 2 M-200 rifles. If it was superior to the 50, it would be replacing the 50. The .50BMG rounds mentioned above were 750gr. The .408 rounds were 419gr.
@BRIKbushcraft No, no, no, no, no. Being turned down =/= inferior. You have to take into account the ridiculous amount of .50 BMG that already exists, making it more suitable for anti-material purposes. If I made a jet fighter 10.000 times better than the F22 that ran on "Unobtainium" nobody would buy it.
Well, you caught me off guard, because I could swear I had a source to a bear being killed by 5.56. You win this time.
@bf2lover42 Part II: The 5.56x45 is far inferior to the 7.62x51. A 7.62x51 will kill anything in North America. The .308 cartridge is used to hunt multiple species of bear. A .223 is used when hunting coyotes & praire dogs. The .308 has been effective out to 1 mile (Todd Hodnett). 5.56 has a maximum range of about 800m. There's web talk of 1000m shots with a 5.56, but no video or documentation of any kind. After 400m, the 5.56 becomes ineffective. Have you ever been around firearms in your life?
@bf2lover42 LOL, the .223 does not have better terminal ballistics at close range. For any .223 or 5.56 bullet you can name, I can name a 7.62x51 that would do the job better. There's no arguing with twice the energy and mass.
PROTIP: assault rifles were developed because shooting full rifle cartridges at humans less than 300m from you meant that most of the energy would be wasted by the bullet flying away
@bf2lover42 Assault rifles were developed because the ammunition and firearms are lighter and cheaper and more controllable and "good enough." No one ever, EVER complained that the 30 caliber battle rifles weren't working because they "wasted energy." The terminal ballistics were always excellent.
Both your history and terminal ballistics are out of whack.
@aluisious Not only lighter and cheaper, but also offered full power rifle performance at short ranges with a reduced kick, full auto yadda yadda volume of fire yadda yadda smaller and lighter gun, etc etc etc.
Watch ballistics tests of both 7.62x51 and 5.56x45 and you'll see that 7.62 doesn't tumble as violently and doesn't dump efficiently it's energy.
@bf2lover42 You can use a soft point or hollow point in 7.62 and that nullifies your argument. Plus, a 7.62 that sails through a block of gelatin with half its energy left has still dumped 100% of the energy of a 5.56 in the block.
You simply can't argue that 5.56x45mm is better than 7.62x51mm at any range. The smaller round might be good enough and have other advantages, but it just doesn't have better terminal ballistics.
@aluisious "You can use a soft point or hollow point in 7.62"
That will indeed outclass any 5.56 load you could find. In that matter you are absolutely right.
"just doesn't have better terminal ballistics"
Not entirely, because terminal ballistics study more factors than energy. Energy? 7.62x51 wins. Will that energy go to the body? 5.56 wins, it has just gained bad fame because of shorter barreled rifles that make it incapable of tumbling even at 300m.
@skks666 But between rifle rounds, the larger will do more damage. A .22LR certainly can't compete with a larger round, like a .338 Lapua Magnum. Bigger is better. America was built on that philosophy.
@bf2lover42 the 5.56 is incradable when it comes to the cavity it makes the 7.62x51 didnt have that kind of damage but the slower moving 7.62x39 that an AK47 or an SKS uses will out preform a 5.56
Very interesting, does this test suggest that flash would warp and cause further damage to itself? I know this is gelatin, and it's supposed to behave that way, but it's supposed to simulate flesh, which is also very stretchy. Also, I would think shock waves would reverberate off of harder targets that aren't directly damaged by the bullet like bones.
This video only shows a .45ACP FMJ 230 grain passing through gel. Why are people making comments about whether the 9MM is better or not, and not inferior? I think I hear the call of fan boys.
Let's face it. A bullet is like a penis. The bigger it is, the more damage it does.
animal muscle and skin density is far different than human. .45 would throw a man to the ground and he will lay there and die. but on most occasions, it lacks the speed to go through medium size animals. if you want to kill a man, 185 grain +P hollow point will teach him a lesson with 1 bullet. if you want to kill a deer, 30-06. simple as that.
@TheRogue4life A .45 still has the speed and power to go through a car door at 500+ yards from a Glock.
/watch?v=gcEkNlQTpTk
Back in 1909 or 1910 when the U.S. Govt. first tested the .45 they were shooting 230gr FMJ roundnose into full grown cows and taking them down in less than a minute.
And the one thing that's almost NEVER mentioned in reports of survived shootings, is the type of bullet used, so judging the entire caliber by those "survived" reports is the wrong thing to do. Because odds are, if they survived and the shot placement was correct, then it's an ammo failure. If they survived because the shot placement was crap, then it's NOT an ammo or caliber failure.
You don't even have to break the skin to drop someone with 1 shot, beanbag guns work.
@NinjaRider777R How are you certain it could be an ammo failure or shot placement failure? It could might not be an ammo failure or shot placement failure.
@NinjaRider777R Resistance to Gunfire Mettinger absorbed nine rounds from Borders' .45—six of which hit him in the torso and two more of which literally severed his right foot—without any significant effect on his fighting ability. This would have been remarkable even if Officer Borders had been firing marginally effective rounds, but he was using .45 caliber Gold Dot ammunition, which is considered by many to be the best man-stopper on the market
@esh325 The suspect in that case was drunk and raging with anger to the point where feeling pain was no longer happening.
And yes, it's still shot placement, one to the head would have stopped the fight long before the cop was down to his last bullet, but cops aren't trained to go for the headshot, in many cases in court if they do go for the head the scumbag criminal defense lawyers try to make it count against them.
@NinjaRider777R Not really, some suicides around here were committed with 45 acps, and the exit hole was less than a quarter in size. These are full-skull headshots, not just pass-throughs.
@TheRogue4life +1 this is important. you don't want the bullet to go through any target. hollow points do have draw backs also. effectiveness can be hindered by clothing clogging up the hollow point before in enters the target. it does not let the bullet expand as it should. newer ammo like hornady tiped hollow point fix this but at a higher ammo cost. but still, IMO hollow point is best for all around defence. keep bullets in the target not through them!
No doubt, .45 ACP edges out 9mm in penetration and final expansion diameter. But with proper shot placement, even .22 LR can put someone down. Nearly ALL ammo can make holes in bad guys; question is, with a COM shot, how deep and how nasty of a wound do you feel you need to make to reliably stop a bad guy? The FBI says 12" deep - technically, even round-nose CCI Mini-Mag .22 LR will do that - but there's no official minimum on wound diameter. Hell, even a BB can kill someone!
@Silver00Coin Yeah. Despite what die-hard .45 fangs tell you, .45 FMJ is only slightly better than 9mm FMJ. A .45 does NOT leave a .45 inch permanent cavity.
@dene8989 You don't know what you are talking about, the 45acp is FAR SUPERIOR to the 9mm, just research street results of actual police shootings !!! Get your facts before you make statements !!!
@bubba45357dan Street results? LOL. Marshal and Shaw ej? Why is it that their data changes every year. A few years ago they said .38 special was the best, and we all now you can shoot someone all day with the .38 special and they will just keep on tickin. Get YOUR data strait and try shooting things with various calibers, try animals if you like, and stop depending on false, untested, "street data." Hell, I've shot game with a .45 and it just bounces off while the 9mm zipped right through!
bullet is like a jet breaking a sound barrier. :)
mikedelapena 1 week ago
@Gunman848...I just picked up the Ruger SR9 and now I'm having second thoughts about it....I heard a lot of feedback on different issues with it like barrel peening. The break in period is killing me because the slide won't close when loading unless I slingshot it ...I have to load it aggressively to get it to close all the way but anyways the Springfield XD was my other choice and I think I made the wrong one :(
bmister50 1 month ago
@bmister50 I looked into buying an SR9, then I remembered the Glock 19 exists.
aluisious 3 weeks ago
I thought the 9mm had more penetration power than 45acp but the 45 had more stopping power?....This round is a beast with penetration and stopping power I think it's got the 9mm beat with both!...I gotta get one!
bmister50 1 month ago
@bmister50 The 9mm is good if you want to hurt the guy, but if you want to kill him well then go with a 45 ;)
BruceJBCpaintball 1 month ago
@bmister50 get a ria 1911 if you want a low cap heavy duity gun, for a more tactical approach, s&w m&p, er a xd.
gunman848 1 month ago
Comment removed
BRIKbushcraft 1 month ago
@bf2lover42 The .408 Cheytac may have been designed to retain its energy, but it still isn't battle proven like the .50BMG. One of the key attributes to a .45's ballistic performance is its low velocity, and the 5.56 will never be able to compete with a 7.62x51. It is ballistically inferior, and transfers far less KE. If you weren't aware, the Armed Forces are looking for slightly larger calibers in the AR platform.
BRIKbushcraft 1 month ago
@BRIKbushcraft Okay, so instead of coming up with the same reasoning you presented in your last post, you resorted with the "battle proven" argument. Which indeed is very pertinent. Still, does not show that the .50 BMG is "better" because of it's size.
5.56 is not inferior to 7.62x51 in the range it was supposed to perform - up to 300m. If you are talking about terminal ballistics, 5.56 is superior and if you are talking about trajectory, at 300m the 7.62 has no big advantage.
bf2lover42 1 month ago
@bf2lover42 .50 BMG travels at 1153 FPS (Fastest available round), & the .408 travels at 1213 FPS (Also fastest available round). These velocity differences were noted INSIGNIFICANT by the USMC. They turned down Cheytac. The only militaries on planet earth that have employed the .408 Cheytac are Poland & Turkey. Between them, purchasing only 2 M-200 rifles. If it was superior to the 50, it would be replacing the 50. The .50BMG rounds mentioned above were 750gr. The .408 rounds were 419gr.
BRIKbushcraft 1 month ago
@BRIKbushcraft No, no, no, no, no. Being turned down =/= inferior. You have to take into account the ridiculous amount of .50 BMG that already exists, making it more suitable for anti-material purposes. If I made a jet fighter 10.000 times better than the F22 that ran on "Unobtainium" nobody would buy it.
Well, you caught me off guard, because I could swear I had a source to a bear being killed by 5.56. You win this time.
bf2lover42 1 month ago
@BRIKbushcraft .50 BMG has a muzzle velocity around 3000 FPS, give or take based on bullet weight.
aluisious 3 weeks ago
@bf2lover42 Part II: The 5.56x45 is far inferior to the 7.62x51. A 7.62x51 will kill anything in North America. The .308 cartridge is used to hunt multiple species of bear. A .223 is used when hunting coyotes & praire dogs. The .308 has been effective out to 1 mile (Todd Hodnett). 5.56 has a maximum range of about 800m. There's web talk of 1000m shots with a 5.56, but no video or documentation of any kind. After 400m, the 5.56 becomes ineffective. Have you ever been around firearms in your life?
BRIKbushcraft 1 month ago
@BRIKbushcraft (cont.) .223 is powerful enough for deer, even if it's diameter makes it illegal to use in deer hunt in many countries.
It has better terminal ballistics than 7.62x51 up to 300m, which it was designed to. It was never designed for 800m shots and it will perform poorly.
Wow, claiming I have never been around firearms? I proved my point, and 5.56 is superior.
By your logic, if 7.62 rifles were replaced by 5.56 then that makes it superior. Hypocrisy much?
bf2lover42 1 month ago
@bf2lover42 LOL, the .223 does not have better terminal ballistics at close range. For any .223 or 5.56 bullet you can name, I can name a 7.62x51 that would do the job better. There's no arguing with twice the energy and mass.
Just absurd...
aluisious 3 weeks ago
@aluisious >terminal ballistics
>only compare energy
PROTIP: assault rifles were developed because shooting full rifle cartridges at humans less than 300m from you meant that most of the energy would be wasted by the bullet flying away
bf2lover42 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
aluisious 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bf2lover42 Assault rifles were developed because the ammunition and firearms are lighter and cheaper and more controllable and "good enough." No one ever, EVER complained that the 30 caliber battle rifles weren't working because they "wasted energy." The terminal ballistics were always excellent.
Both your history and terminal ballistics are out of whack.
aluisious 3 weeks ago
@aluisious Not only lighter and cheaper, but also offered full power rifle performance at short ranges with a reduced kick, full auto yadda yadda volume of fire yadda yadda smaller and lighter gun, etc etc etc.
Watch ballistics tests of both 7.62x51 and 5.56x45 and you'll see that 7.62 doesn't tumble as violently and doesn't dump efficiently it's energy.
bf2lover42 3 weeks ago
@bf2lover42 You can use a soft point or hollow point in 7.62 and that nullifies your argument. Plus, a 7.62 that sails through a block of gelatin with half its energy left has still dumped 100% of the energy of a 5.56 in the block.
You simply can't argue that 5.56x45mm is better than 7.62x51mm at any range. The smaller round might be good enough and have other advantages, but it just doesn't have better terminal ballistics.
aluisious 3 weeks ago
@aluisious "You can use a soft point or hollow point in 7.62"
That will indeed outclass any 5.56 load you could find. In that matter you are absolutely right.
"just doesn't have better terminal ballistics"
Not entirely, because terminal ballistics study more factors than energy. Energy? 7.62x51 wins. Will that energy go to the body? 5.56 wins, it has just gained bad fame because of shorter barreled rifles that make it incapable of tumbling even at 300m.
bf2lover42 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
xdeloach 1 week ago
@skks666 But between rifle rounds, the larger will do more damage. A .22LR certainly can't compete with a larger round, like a .338 Lapua Magnum. Bigger is better. America was built on that philosophy.
BRIKbushcraft 1 month ago
@BRIKbushcraft Well, the .408 was made to retain more energy than .50 BMG at longer ranges, and it is smaller.
Plus, the .22LR is not very fast. 9x19mm is faster than .45ACP so it's a pair comparison.
And finally, the military chose to replace 7.62x51 by 5.56 assault rifles, which fire a smaller round.
bf2lover42 1 month ago
@bf2lover42 the 5.56 is incradable when it comes to the cavity it makes the 7.62x51 didnt have that kind of damage but the slower moving 7.62x39 that an AK47 or an SKS uses will out preform a 5.56
randomness8895 1 month ago
@randomness8895 I know, it was exactly my point.
bf2lover42 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@randomness8895 I know, it was exactly my point.
bf2lover42 1 month ago
In 2 world wars, the 230 grain ball round was a proven man stopper. So when you add a good jhp in the mix, its a great match.
pjicleanair420 2 months ago
Stop at 0:01 and look
myhunterkitty1 2 months ago
stop at 0:02 and look what it is
myhunterkitty1 2 months ago
Very interesting, does this test suggest that flash would warp and cause further damage to itself? I know this is gelatin, and it's supposed to behave that way, but it's supposed to simulate flesh, which is also very stretchy. Also, I would think shock waves would reverberate off of harder targets that aren't directly damaged by the bullet like bones.
ThrowingSpoon 2 months ago
This video only shows a .45ACP FMJ 230 grain passing through gel. Why are people making comments about whether the 9MM is better or not, and not inferior? I think I hear the call of fan boys.
Let's face it. A bullet is like a penis. The bigger it is, the more damage it does.
JLai1969 2 months ago
@JLai1969 I'd say a rifle bullet will do more damage than a pistol bullet, and usually the rifle bullets are smaller.
skks666 2 months ago
how many frames per second are there in this?
dracoalpine 3 months ago
9mm cartridges are certainly not inferior to the .45- they have a higher velocity and range, only less brute force and penetration.
superman5051 4 months ago
But will it blend? Seriously, what happens to this shit if you throw it in a blender? I DEMAND TO SEE A VIDEO!
31337pcs 4 months ago
Closer to God
WolfClan76 4 months ago
holy shit !
longlife4rock 4 months ago
I think 45 acp ball ammo in my 1911 in plenty sufficient to do the job. I don't need the expensive JHP's.
hlgrice 5 months ago
animal muscle and skin density is far different than human. .45 would throw a man to the ground and he will lay there and die. but on most occasions, it lacks the speed to go through medium size animals. if you want to kill a man, 185 grain +P hollow point will teach him a lesson with 1 bullet. if you want to kill a deer, 30-06. simple as that.
TheRogue4life 6 months ago
@TheRogue4life A .45 still has the speed and power to go through a car door at 500+ yards from a Glock.
/watch?v=gcEkNlQTpTk
Back in 1909 or 1910 when the U.S. Govt. first tested the .45 they were shooting 230gr FMJ roundnose into full grown cows and taking them down in less than a minute.
NinjaRider777R 5 months ago
@NinjaRider777R People have survived .45 acp's. It's not a magical one shot stop bullet.
esh325 4 months ago
@esh325 Shot Placement.
And the one thing that's almost NEVER mentioned in reports of survived shootings, is the type of bullet used, so judging the entire caliber by those "survived" reports is the wrong thing to do. Because odds are, if they survived and the shot placement was correct, then it's an ammo failure. If they survived because the shot placement was crap, then it's NOT an ammo or caliber failure.
You don't even have to break the skin to drop someone with 1 shot, beanbag guns work.
NinjaRider777R 4 months ago
@NinjaRider777R How are you certain it could be an ammo failure or shot placement failure? It could might not be an ammo failure or shot placement failure.
esh325 4 months ago
@NinjaRider777R Resistance to Gunfire Mettinger absorbed nine rounds from Borders' .45—six of which hit him in the torso and two more of which literally severed his right foot—without any significant effect on his fighting ability. This would have been remarkable even if Officer Borders had been firing marginally effective rounds, but he was using .45 caliber Gold Dot ammunition, which is considered by many to be the best man-stopper on the market
esh325 4 months ago
@esh325 The suspect in that case was drunk and raging with anger to the point where feeling pain was no longer happening.
And yes, it's still shot placement, one to the head would have stopped the fight long before the cop was down to his last bullet, but cops aren't trained to go for the headshot, in many cases in court if they do go for the head the scumbag criminal defense lawyers try to make it count against them.
NinjaRider777R 4 months ago
@NinjaRider777R I've got a video of a cop talking about how he survived a .45 acp to his head.
esh325 4 months ago
@esh325 What did it do, graze him and give him a little scratch?
Nobody survives a full direct impact headshot from a .45, even a basic 800fps 230gr FMJ ball, the exit hole is usually 2.5 to 3 inches....
NinjaRider777R 4 months ago
@NinjaRider777R Hit him in the jaw and exited out of his neck.
esh325 4 months ago
@NinjaRider777R Not really, some suicides around here were committed with 45 acps, and the exit hole was less than a quarter in size. These are full-skull headshots, not just pass-throughs.
dysqsarhut 4 months ago
@TheRogue4life +1 this is important. you don't want the bullet to go through any target. hollow points do have draw backs also. effectiveness can be hindered by clothing clogging up the hollow point before in enters the target. it does not let the bullet expand as it should. newer ammo like hornady tiped hollow point fix this but at a higher ammo cost. but still, IMO hollow point is best for all around defence. keep bullets in the target not through them!
gonzosc1 4 months ago
@TheRogue4life A bullet can't throw you to the ground. There's no such thing as a one shot stop round.
esh325 4 months ago
感動した。
zigorou100 6 months ago
does it come in 36-24-36 size? LOL:)
HerbWalker 6 months ago
If you're stuck with non expanding ball ammo go to a semi qad-cutter, with a +P designation and lighter bullets.
Southern661 7 months ago
No doubt, .45 ACP edges out 9mm in penetration and final expansion diameter. But with proper shot placement, even .22 LR can put someone down. Nearly ALL ammo can make holes in bad guys; question is, with a COM shot, how deep and how nasty of a wound do you feel you need to make to reliably stop a bad guy? The FBI says 12" deep - technically, even round-nose CCI Mini-Mag .22 LR will do that - but there's no official minimum on wound diameter. Hell, even a BB can kill someone!
darkwriter77 8 months ago 2
And that is ball ammo just think if you throw a hollow point at someone. They gonna stay down.
AKxALLxDAYx 10 months ago 18
@AKxALLxDAYx the hornady ftx is a sicko
mememojo 1 week ago
Say, uhh, can I have five minutes alone with that jelly?
TheMrNamefag 11 months ago 90
@TheMrNamefag You nasty bastard!! I was thinking the SAME thing!!! hahahahaha
HerbWalker 6 months ago
@TheMrNamefag - E-Harmony. Where you can meet women fitting your desires.
Search4diabetescure 1 month ago
Nobody uses the FMJ except the military. Everyone who wants to do some real damage with use a JHP in any caliber 9mm and up.
chrizzis77 11 months ago
These show nothing except temporary cavity and dont even take bone and organs into account
Silver00Coin 1 year ago
@Silver00Coin Still interesting
Fightnight92 1 year ago
@Silver00Coin Yeah. Despite what die-hard .45 fangs tell you, .45 FMJ is only slightly better than 9mm FMJ. A .45 does NOT leave a .45 inch permanent cavity.
dene8989 1 year ago
@dene8989 You don't know what you are talking about, the 45acp is FAR SUPERIOR to the 9mm, just research street results of actual police shootings !!! Get your facts before you make statements !!!
bubba45357dan 6 months ago
@bubba45357dan Street results? LOL. Marshal and Shaw ej? Why is it that their data changes every year. A few years ago they said .38 special was the best, and we all now you can shoot someone all day with the .38 special and they will just keep on tickin. Get YOUR data strait and try shooting things with various calibers, try animals if you like, and stop depending on false, untested, "street data." Hell, I've shot game with a .45 and it just bounces off while the 9mm zipped right through!
dene8989 6 months ago