the comparison with the baby, is like for what ? Jesus yes He was a child, and a God, but He as a child according to tradittion was very wise ! He was God as a child as much as the age permited the body to understand, to respond to the communion ! Jesus is a comunion of God and human ! He is the perfect mediator betwin human and God !
my God, cant become an ice cube, not because He doesnt can , but because it has no purpuse, no help for me ! so the comparison with that ice cube is not so good, because Jesus also RESURECTED, so the melted ice cube, meaning probably even death, was abolished
as both true God and true man: unmixed, unchanged, undivided, unseparable. What do we understand here ? we understand that the humanity of the Son of man comunicates inside the Mesiah, with God, they are one in comunication, is your SOUL, one with your FLESH ? does your SOUL need water ?
now waith a minute you dont know how God can become human, and remember the word is become,not BE as we find here this is the true meaning of what you say here be as in IS,this doesn t mean that He cant be man ! not become but be man ! this is what was wrong with the other video.Your logic in this video is weird, because God also created This material World DIRECTLY, and s the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters at Genesis 1,2 ! Psalm 115, 3 says that God makes on Earth all he desires !
2 of your arguements here are fraudulent. Both the example of the ice cube and the baby are the same basic natures. Let me explain. It is true that water can become an ice cube but that ice cube is still water. That ice cube was always water. It's still the same basic element it's form has changed.
Likewise with the baby. That baby will still be a human no matter what it's age.
Therefore Jesus could become man but still be God in basic nature. This is what Phillipians 2:5-11 affirms.
You cannot drink an ice cube. When ice cube become water, the ice cube is no more existent. Same goes for the baby. A baby becoming a man nullifies the existence of that baby.
If God became man, He would still be God, but the only God... no other one being prayed to by that man god.
An ice cube is made of the same substance as water, just the form is different. Ice is just frozen water. Steam, though a gas, is just heated water. Same substance. A baby is still a human, as is an elderly person. Still human.
So by your logic, God can put on flesh and still be God.
... you missed the explanation. If ever Gos became man, that man would not be praying to a god as he himself is the God. I did not expect you would get it.
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures egarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Cont)
(Cont) According to Paul, Jesus's resurrection was clear proof that He is the Son of God. So the question is whether you believe that God rose Jesus from the dead or not.
Jesus is a decendant of David through Mary. Read Luke 3:23-38, which is Jesus's geneology from Mary (as contrasted with Matthew 1:1-16 which is Jesus's geneology from Joseph). Jesus is considered Joseph's firstborn Son through marriage. Scripture is clear that Jesus is a decended from David.
That is because Isreal was a patriarchial society so women wern't normally named in geneologies. Joseph was put in instead of Mary. It is Mary's geneology because there is a difference from Solomon on. Joseph's geneology is the kingly line.
But to put this to rest you should know that Mary and Joseph's real firstborn was James. He was the writer of the book of James. What does James say about Jesus Christ?
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ (James 1:1)
I'm not wanting to escape. Believe me, you have proven nothing here. I am just tired of beating my head against a wall. When you have someone who will not acknoledge the obvious then they are obviously not willing to see the truth.
But the book of James DID make it into the Bible. Revelation also almost didn't make it in. Many of the things written in Revelation are now coming to pass or are about to come to pass. Where will you be when Jesus Christ returns?
John 8:58-59: "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. (emphesis mine)
Compare with Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "
You see then that this was a direct claim to Deity by Jesus. That is why the Jews tried to stone Him.
The Bible never says that Jesus stopped being God when He became man.
Phil 2:6-7:
6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
This doesn't mean that He stopped being God, Jesus's nature remained the same. Jesus gave up His position as God, His authority.
It is clear from the context that the Jews knew what Jesus meant and you should know what Jesus meant as well. If you are going to be intellectually dishonest then we can end this discourse alltogether because it would be clear that you do not want to see the truth.
However, if you want to proceed then quit denying what is plainly there. No one else in scripture claimed to be I AM in Abraham's time (or before even which is CLEARLY what Jesus was referring to). Now what do you think?
Everyone's creation is pre-ordained, and this predates the creation of man. God did not decide to create as time went by. So, there should be nothing wrong with anyone being even before Noah's time. It is not inconsistent with God's foreknowledge.
Your point was about "I Am," and I can find you numerous places where "I Am" was used by people not worshiped.
Look, you are just being obstinate now. You can clearly see from the context that the Jews CLEARLY understood what Jesus meant when he said: "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58). You should again read John 8:59 and see what the Jews' reaction was to this statement. 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him (John 8:59). They obviously understood that He was claiming Deity. It is a shame that Satan has so clouded your understanding to not see something so obvious.
John 5:16-18: 16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
John 1:14: The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Those are John's words. If you have a problem with John's testamony, a man who walked and talked with Jesus Christ, a man who testified to Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection, then HOW MUCH MORE should you have a problem with Muhammad who came along some 500 years later.
You might say that Muhammad talks for God and is God's Prophet but I could (and do) say the same thing about John. It is ridiculous to think that the Apostles got wrong what Muhammad would get right 500 years later.
Which John is this? How can you prove that the writer of this Gospel is John was was a disciple? John 21:24-25 clearly makes it dubious that this Gospel is written by the alleged disciple.
Again, you are biting off more than you can chew. John's gospel is almost universally accepted as being from the Apostle John. John 21:24-25 does not make it dubious at all. There are many references that indicate that John the Apostle wrote the book.
How do you know that he wasn't a prophet? And who are you to say that he wasn't a prophet? Because Muhammad said so??
Universally accepted by Christians is what you meant to say. You offer no explanation for what is written in that reference given, but you go on to say it is universally accepted. By who?
No, I mean that Biblical scholarship almost universally say that John the Apostle wrote the gospel of John. Meaning university professors. Too numerous to put here.
As for John being a prophet. John was an Apostle. He was one of the 12 disciples. The Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ are GREATER than the Prophets. Just as Jesus Christ is GREATER then the Prophets and the Apostles, being that He is God's Only Begotton Son. The Apostles proclaimed the gospel of Jesus Christ, and wrote scripture
Matthew 28:19: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (emphesis mine).
Notice that Jesus did not say names but name, meaning one name for the Trinity, that would be YHWH.
Where did you get the conclusion drawn? From Jesus or you had to make it fit?
If Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel, don't you find it contradicting that he wanted to make disciples of all nations? Another reason I find these Gospels dubious.
Jesus was sent only to the nation of Isreal during His ministry before His death, burial, and resurrection. The great commission came after His resurrection and after Isreal had rejected His message.
Also, Jesus never rejected ANYONE who needed help. There are different examples in scripture where He did help gentiles including the one where you get your quote from. Jesus said that to the Canaanite woman, who He helped after He saw her great faith. That can be found in Matt 15:21-28.
Again, when did Jesus say this about only being sent to Isreal? Was it before or after His death, burial, and resurrection? Before, right? And what about Matthew 28:18-20? Before or after? After right? Is it that you are truely so blinded that you cannot see these things or are you just being contentious? I cannot argue with someone who will say that it is night when it is day. Go ahead and live in your darkness if you want to. I will soon wash my hands with you.
Webdawah, it is not my intention to get be this way but if you want to argue such obvious points then there is not much that I can tell you. You will either believe or you will not. I will not judge you, God will.
Because, you see, unlike Allah who needs his people to propagate his religion by the sword, YHWH does not need to do so. YHWH has promissed that ALL will bow before Him and He will execute vengence upon the ungodly. He doesn't need man to do so.
Somehow you think by disparaging my beliefs, you will get me to believe what you believe.
What I don't get is why he is being worshiped all of a sudden, and he begins to contradict himself after the 'resurrection.' If he was going to die anyway, why not be truthful and up front about your being a god? Very dubious.
I am not dsparaging your beliefs, I'm telling you the truth. I already told you about this. He is being worshipped because His resurrection proves that He IS God. That is why Thomas worshipped Him. He was also worshipped BEFORE He was resurrected. I have shown you some of those scriptures as well.
If you would just read the text with an open mind instead of just trying to disprove it God might show it to you.
Also, Jesus Christ is not "a god". HE IS GOD! The God of all creation.
@webdawah Jesus being worshiped and acknowledged as God in the NT prior to His Resurrection: Matthew 2 Matthew 14:33 Matthew 20:20 Matthew 28:9, 17 Mark 3:11 Mark 5:6-8 Mark 5:22, 33 Mark 7:25 Luke 5:8, 12 John 9:35-38 John 11:32 John 20:24-31 No inconsistencies here...other signs and wonders followed Him, as well, which are conspicuously absent from the "ministry" of Mohammed. Mohammed was not aware of important details about Jesus and His life...why, if we're being consistent, here?
@stronzo5785 Matthew 2 says they came to worship him. Apart from the striking similarity of this event with that of the story of Krishna, watch dubious writing parts 1-6.
@webdawah...frankly, I wouldn't feel like typing, either, if I had to defend an indefensible position.
Please source your assertion about similarities to the story of Krishna...
And...please don't think that you're off the hook with your attempt at distraction. You forgot about the other 11 passages I quoted...gosh, if I has so much homework to do I'd be too tired to type, too.
Thank you for your reply, and, though I disagree with you, I do respect your right to believe anything you like.
One problem with your source...neither Christ-myth proponents nor opponents recommend using Graves as a source. Indeed, Mr. Graves had no credentials as a historian, archeologist or religious studies scholar, and his works are criticized for their inaccuracy by people of all faiths mentioned in his book.
@stronzo5785 I expect you to discredit the source. I am not a theology professor, but that does not mean that everything I say about religion is not credible, or true.
Would you like to hear it from a Hindu priest? I don't know how to access Hindu scriptures. Watch "The Hidden Story of Jesus" by Theologian, Dr Robert Beckford. Tell me that the Hindu priest is telling a lie about his religion.
@webdawah...you simply don't know how to source anything, proving again that you didn't do your homework.
To the point...you want we, who watch your videos, to do your research for you. I do respect the fact that you are admitting that you don't know how to access Hindu scriptures, but the fact that you source this material yet still quote it boggles the mind.
If I make an assertion, I use multiple sources that I can explain, and I give you the quote, so that you can check it out...you don't.
@stronzo5785 I assume the Hindu priest is telling a lie about his religion to help my argument, and the theologian who asked the question knew in advance that we would have this conversation. Just like the devil knew in advance about the story of Jesus in the Bible and replicated it in other ancient religions. I saw this coming, quit wasting my time. "Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions" by Thomas William Doane
pp. 186.
"Christianity Before Christ" by John G. Jackson pp. 80.
@webdawah uh, John G. Jackson is an atheist, and Thomas William Doane is an agnostic. You, a Muslim, are desperate enough to support your point that you'd use people who don't believe in your god, to support some position that you can't even define.
Hey...I'm a Christian. I read and study the NT, because that document is a clear testament to the truth of God, and the truth found in the NT refutes the Quran.
@stronzo5785 So, if I quote Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" even though he's a renowned scholar, you will discredit him as a source. If he were a Muslim, you will say he has bias. Can I ever give you a reference that you will accept, despite scholarship in the subject? I had written you off long ago as a dishonest individual, I only tried to give you a second chance to redeem yourself.
You have been blocked. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
So, what's the context of God becoming man? If God became man, and still retained His person, that means there are two gods. What's more? One of those gods prayed, and beckoned on the other.
In the context of an onipotent entity no action that entity takes can place limitations on that entity against its will.
No, it means that there are two persons. 3 persons, 1 being, that is the basis of the Trinity. Being human as well as divine, Jesus could experience the human condition, being separeted from God, and that is why He prayed to God the Father.
What is the significance of the trinity, if all of the chosen people by God in the Old Testament never mentioned or alluded to a trinity in their teachings?
What is the purpose of worshipping a trinity, since you claim God is one? Did God give permission to worship Jesus, or the Holy Spirit? Neither did Jesus ask to be worshipped.
You are saying that God becomes man, then sends that man to earth. Apparently, that man takes instructions from a higher power. They both can't be the same person.
Actually, the Trinity is implied in the Old Testament. (Psalm 2, Job 33:4)
Err You answered your own question on that second point: God is one. Hence, worshipping God means worshipping all three persons within Him and directing prayer to any one part of the Trinity is praying to the whole of it.
Yep, they arent the same person, they are different persons, hypostases, in one essence.
27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Notice that Jesus did not correct Thomas here in his calling Jesus God.
This does not mean Jesus was worshipped. Thomas could have well made that statement in exclamation. "Because you have seen me..." did Thomas not see him before that event? That was not a test of faith, but a clarification that he saw Jesus.
First of all, scripture clearly portrays this scene as after the resurrection. So you will obviously object this whole scene if you are true to your Muslim beliefs (since Muslims are in the habit of denying the resurrection of Jesus Christ). (Cont)
Thomas was saying one of 2 things both of which deserved a rebuke from Jesus if Jesus is not God. Thomas was either calling Jesus his Lord and His God or Thomas was making an exclamation at the marvel of Jesus's resurrection. If Thomas was making an exclamation, then Jesus should have rebuked him for taking God's name in vain, which He didn't do. If Thomas was calling Jesus his Lord and God then Jesus didn't refute this either. Jesus's response suggests that Thomas was doing the latter.
The problem with this is that Jesus never called himself a god and never asked to be worshiped before the 'crucifixion. where then did this idea that Jesus is a god come from, that Thomas would adopt it?
Thomas response came from the fact that he was seeing a Man who he knew was dead yet was standing alive before him, with the wounds of His crucifixion at that. Also Thomas knew the scriptures that spoke of the Messiah and His death, burial, and resurrection. Jesus Christ's resurrection was proof of His Deity. Read Romans 1:2-4.
Jesus said, You call Me Teacher and Lord, and rightly so, for this is what I am; John 13:13. You have one Teacher, the Messiah; Matthew 23:10. These are but some of many verses that lead us to correctly conclude, Jesus is the Messiah and Lord of Israel.
I gave you some scriptures to ponder over. God will not spoon feed you like a baby. He wants you to search the Bible for the truth. God hides His mysteries in the Bible so that only those who truly love Him will find Him. For this reason Jesus sometimes spoke in parables that people could not understand.
How do you worship a God that hides His signs? God supposedly wants to confuse you and confirm that you love him if the confusion does not succeed? Think about what you say.
The book of Proverbs states in 25:2, "It is the glory of God to hide a matter and the glory of kings is to seek it out". The sin of a man cofuses him. God's glory was to send His son (who did not openly declare His divinity), to reveal God's truth of salvation through faith in Jesus' death on the cross. The confusion of Muhammed caused him to reject Jesus as God's Son and as the only way to be saved from God's condemnation.
The verse from proverbs you showed does not say what you showed. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter."
I asked you about the signs of God. How do we know these things if they are hidden? How could we be faulted for not unravelling these hidden signs?
The only reason Jesus did not say he was God, is because he is not. Paul made him so.
Christians know the mysteries of God through the Holy Spirit who reveals the mysteries of God to us. Muslims cannot recieve the Holy Spirit, the Spirt of Truth for they reject Jesus divine Sonship and atoning death and resurrection. God declared to John the Baptist that Jesus was the Son of God. John declared Jesus to have existed before John was born. Jesus never denied being God and accepted the worship of those who called Him Lord and God. Jesus as a teacher and prophet never corrected them.
Your comment is a buch of contradictions. A prophet is someone who depends on God for prophecies. Jesus never claimed to be God, and was never worshipped in his lifetime. Paul invented this doctrine.
A prophet is someone who speaks forth the words of God. Jesus spoke the words of God. He was the divine Word of God made flesh. Jesus claimed to be God when He said to the Jews, "Before Abraham was born, I Am." The Jews then tried to stone Jesus for blasphemy, they knew that when God first revealed himself to Moses, He used the name, I Am. Read John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14
I have seen this argument before. "Before Abraham was born, I Am" is not a name, but part of a sentence. Many people used the phrase 'I am" in the Bible, are they not all gods then?
If they stoned him for saying "I am," that would have been a blasphemy charge. It's just a clear contradiction that when he was on trial, nobody brought up the "I am" charge.
Read Mark 14:62-64, or Matthew 26:63-66. Jesus is charged with blasphemy for equating himself with God. There was no need for an exact charge of using the "I Am" title of God.There were other things Jesus had said that would be considered blasphemy to Jews.
In the refernces you gave, he said he was the Christ(Messiah), not God. They charged him with blasphemy, because they did not see him to be the Messiah. Not that they thought he claimed to be God.
When Jesus showed Thomas the wounds He received at the crucifixion, Thomas believed and called Jesus, My Lord and My God. Instead of correcting Thomas, Jesus blesses Thomas and says, "blessed are those who believe but have not seen". Jesus did not have to correct Thomas for Thomas correctly declared Jesus to be Lord and God. Read John 20:28,29.
Webdawah, Thomas would not use God's name in vain to exclaim surprise. Jews are not to use God's name in vain. Thomas was declaring Jesus to be his Lord and God.
I'll ask you the same question I asked before. Can you fill in the gap? Jesus never called himself God, then why was Thomas all of a sudden calling him one?
Jesus never denied being God. Jesus should have corrected Thomas and told him to stop calling him Lord and God if Thomas had been wrong. Instead, Jesus blesses those who believe in Him without have seen what Thomas has seen. Jesus previously told His disciples they are correct in calling Him, Lord. The Holy Spirit led Thomas to not only call Jesus, Lord but also his God.
Webdawah, you can come to the understanding that Jesus is Lord of Israel by reading Luke 1:16,17,67-79. Jesus was sent by the Father. Jesus himself claimed the Father sent Him on His mission to heal the sick, give sight to the blind, bind up the wounded, set the captives of Satan free and give His life for the salvation of mankind.
Your references don't say what you claim. It seems difficult for you to even understand the book you base your faith upon. No human here was called "Lord of Israel." And the whole passage was talking about John the baptist, not Jesus.
John the Baptist is the forerunner of the Messiah,the Lord & king of Israel.He is to prepare the people of Israel to receive the kingdom of God.If you read the intervening verses in chap.1, John,while still in the womb of his mother, is filled with God's Spirit & jumps for joy in the prescence of Mary who is pregnant with Jesus.John was to be filled with the God's Spirit from before his birth as was foretold by the angel.The connection between Jesus and John is established before their births.
Jesus was both God & man. In the Gospel,He is called the Son of God & the Son of Man. Jesus is God because He is One with the Father, and the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son and the Holy Sprit are one God. In the Bible,God,the Father speaks from heaven saying of Jesus, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." The Holy Spirit in our hearts testifies that Jesus is the Son of God and one God with the Father.The Holy Spirit,whom Muslims cannot receive, reveals the mysteries of God to us.
Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit;Matthew 28:19. Baptism is the seal of God by which we become His children. Jesus said, He and the Father are One. Jesus also spoke of the Holy Spirit as coming from the Father. Jesus did not fully reveal the mystery of the Trinity but sent the Holy Spirit to reveal this mystery after His ascension into heaven. God, the Holy Spirit is the Teacher and Helper of the Church who guides us unto all Truth.
This verse does not say that God is three in one. If you baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit what was Jesus baptized in? Give Biblical verses.
It does not explicitly say that but it is implied.The Gospel teaches that in Jesus dwelt the Father,Son and Holy Spirit. Christian baptism is to make us like Christ.We are to be sons of God,being One with the Father,Son & Holy Spirit.Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.John the Baptist only baptized Jews to receive their Messiah & prepare them for the kingdom of God.Jesus did not have to be baptized but submitted to baptism since He was a Jew & as a sign for John the Baptist;John 1:30,31.
God, the Father told John that the man on whom he saw the Spirit come upon, He is the Messiah and Lord of Israel. The sign was for John to believe in Jesus as Lord and Son of God. Jesus, the Son of Man needed to pray to God. Jesus was limited in His humanity and needed to ask God's help to perform His mission.
Can you show the verse were God called Jesus the lord of Israel?
You mean Jesus takes permission from God? How then could you call him God? Jesus as God came down to earth on his own, but when he got to earth he required permission from God? Does that make any sense to you?
God is a mystery. It is futile for you to try to understand His trinitarian nature with your finite mind. It is as if an atheist or polytheist might ask, if God is one, how can He possibly hear so many prayers at once? The Trinity is a more difficut concept to grasp but is as true as God's Oneness. Just as true is the Incarnation of God's Son. John the Baptist speaks of Jesus as having existed before him. This leads us to conclude Jesus preincarnate existence with God, the Father.
God is only one, you and I know that. All these trinitarian concepts are pagan. Why did God hide this trinitarian quality in the Old Testament? Why did he hide it from Moses, Abraham and all the prophets? Are the OT people less important than Paul?
How can someone be God & man at the same time? Can someone be alive and dead at the same time?!
in the Bible several people were called sons of God, how many sons of God should I worship? Psa 2:7,Jer 31:9,Luk 3:38 just to name a few, That alone ruins the concept of Trinity. Trinity + other sons of God.
I don't worship someone because he was called son of man! How does that make him divine?! We don't even believe that Jesus had a father, so he's not really a son of man.
God is a mystery, He can be both God and man. Jesus did not die only His body died and was buried.Jesus descended into Hell.The Psalms say,even if I descend into Hell,You(God) are there.The Bible says all men are sons of God. We are all sons of God by virtue of our common descent from Adam who is called the son of God.Jesus is unique in being born of a virgin and the power of the Holy Spirit. He is the only begotten Son of God by this miraculous act & is to be worshipped as God by all mankind.
You misunderstand the Bible just as your own prophet did.Hosea,Numbers,& Malachi were written before Jesus was born.They do not contradict the Incarnation of God.God is Omnipresent as He is Omniscent,His presence can be in Hell.God sends the Holy Spirit to Christians so we too can be sons of God as Christ was the Son of God.Jesus is the firstborn of many brothers.There are many types of sons. All men are sons of God by their common humanity. Only Jesus and Xtians are true sons of God in Spirit.
heidi, Jesus never denied He was God. He accepted the worship of those who called Him Lord and God. He was a prophet and a teacher who would have corrected such excess if it were not true. Jesus knew it was confimation from God that people would worship Him as God.Jesus never would proudy proclaim to be God for that was not in His character as a humble man. Christians do not worship Jesus in vain. Jesus hears and answers Christian prayers much better than Allah does for Muslims.
God answers Christians prayers. God rescued me from dying through the prayers of my Christian family and friends. God answers the prayers of people who believe in Jesus,the Son of God. Christianity continues to grow much faster than Islam because God answers the prayers of those who believe in His Son. Muslims who reject Jesus as God's Son do not prosper. Muslims are among the most backwards of people in the world who must immigrate to Christian countries in order to prosper. Islam is a curse.
By your way of thinking, every Christian must be more prosperous than every Muslim... which is not true. I hope you see the fallacy in your logic.
With what statistics do you base your assertion that Muslims must migrate to Christian countries to prosper? Actually, the leaders of so called Christian countries invade Muslim lands to impede this prosperity. How much prosperity would you find in a country like Iraq that has been war torn for over 5 years, and invaded by prosperous Christians?
Those who follow the teachings of Christ do prosper. Western countries whose ethics are based on the Christian Bible also prosper. Muslims who follow the Quran do not prosper for it teaches killing, subjugating & hatred of non-Muslims. Iraq cannot prosper because of Muslim hatred and violence. US wants to help Iraqis but jihadis will not let them. US invaded Iraq to liberate Iraq from Saddam's tyranny. Saddam killed more Muslims than the US bombs. Muslim Jihadis are the ones killing Muslims.
That's either a delibrate lie, or a comment made out of Ignorance. Over a million Iraqis have died in the last 5 years. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc are filled with Muslims who follow the Qur'an, and many Westerners are there through migration...I wonder what they are doing there.
U.S. invaded Iraq for oil...simple. They lied about WMDs, and the whole world has seen this. Name one Western country whose ethics are based on Christian Bible, just one. Show one Qur'anic verse that says 'hate.'
Most million+Iraqis who died did so at the hands of other Muslims.Arab countries which import workers do so to do menial jobs which Arabs are too proud to do or do not have the expertise to do.Western countries do not have laws against apostasy. They allow for religious freedom.Freedom of religion is derived from the Christian Bible. Muslim countries do not have full religious freedom & prohibit Muslims from leaving Islam. Quran hate speech is found in Quran 2:65;5:51,60;9:30;58:22,98:6
What statistics do you use to know who died in the hands of Muslims? Western countries too have visa programs that does just what you calim Arabs do. Don't be a hypocrite. Can you show me religious freedom in the Bible?
I don't know which of the verses you posted above teaches to hate as you claimed. Can you post the words you see teaching hate?
Who needs statistics? Almost everyday one reads of some terrorist act committed by Muslims in the name of islam, the same as in Iraq. Non-Muslims may work in Muslim countries but do not want to become second-class citizens. Muslims who immigrate to Western countries do want to become citizens. They find more freedom and prosperity in Christian countries than in Muslim. The Bible teaches us the love and grace of God. The Bible does not teach Christians to kill apostates or enemies of Jesus.
I asked you to show the verses that allude to religious freedom in the Bible, but you have not.
How do you know that Muslims who go to Christian countries want to become citizens? Do you work for the immigration services?
You are either not truthful or you don't know better. If Islam preaches terrorism, you would not be behind your computer today typing these things. It's common sense.
Webdawah, The New Testament says, God is love. 1 Corinthians 13 says, Love is gentle and kind. It does not force itself. God does not force people to follow Him if they do not want to. God gives us free will to reject Him. There is no apostasy law in the N.T. I know Muslims want to stay in Western countries by the many mosques being built. I can criticize islam because of the freedom that exists in my country. If I lived in a Muslim country, I wuld be in jail or dead. That's common sense.
Everyone knows Love in an attribute of God. You have decided not to show me this verse you claim preaches freedom of religion in the New Testament. If you want to talk about apostacy, there is no apostacy law in the Qur'an either.
God's Spirit guided Christians to eventually eliminate slavery, although there is no verse in the Bible prohibiting it. The same goes for allowing the freedom of religion. Muslims would still be practicing slavery if not for Christians who were the first to eliminate it. The Quran(5:33) does teach maiming, killing & crucifying the enemies of Allah and Muhammed. Sufi saint,Mansur al-Hallaj was crucified by Muslim authorities for blasphemy against Islam.Like Jesus,he was crucified as an apostate.
Qur'an 5:33 is not teaching anything, but commenting on events that have happened. The Prophet showed us a great exapmle by freeing slaves long before the west emulated this example.
Quran 5:33 is written in the present tense to Muslims. They are to cut off hands & feet, crucify, kill or exile the enemies of Allah & his messenger(Muhammed). Mansur al-Hallaj was crucified in obedience to this command by the Muslim Caliph. Muhammed did own slaves. Muhammed and his followers only freed some slaves, but only those who became Muslim. Jesus never owned slaves but became as a servant of men. He washed the feet of His disciples as an example of Christian servanthood and humility.
Can you post the Quranic verse on your next comment? Let's see if it is commanding to do anything.
I thought Jesus was God, why are you comparing him to Muhammad who was a man? It clearly shows that deep inside you, you know that Jesus was just a man.
Why should I post it? You and I know what Quran 5:33 commands Muslims to do. Why don't you post it and then try to hide what it really says. Jesus was both God and man. I realize God is a mystery and can become incarnate in Jesus Christ. I know Muhammed was just a man and a sinner. I know he was no prophet of God. No prophet of God would marry his son's wife and then say God allowed it. He would be committing the triple sins of adultery, incest and blasphemy.
Webdawa, Don't act ignorant. You know the Quranic verses I cited negatively describe non-Muslims. Such verses create prejudice and hatred in the minds of Muslims towards non-believers. "May God curse them" (Sura 9:30)does not teach love but hatred. There are no Quranic verses teaching Muslims to love their enemies, only verses to fight, subjugate or kill their enemies. Jesus teaches believers to forgive & love their enemies, to return good for evil and not retaliate.
I am not acting ignorant, you are the one displaying ignorance and I don't fault you for that. Anyone reading that verse without knowledge would say the same. "May God curse them" is an Arabic expression used for something abhorent. It's far from a hate speech.
So Muhammed says, Christians and the Christian faith are abhorent. This still sounds like hate speech to me. If any politician or person in the media were to declare Muslims and their faith to be abhorent, Muslims would be rioting in the streets and declaring fatwas of death on the blasphemers.
The Qur'an is God's words, and He's not a politician or media personnel. Ascribing godhood to a man, or sonhood of God to a man are all pagan as the verse alludes.
The errors of the Quran prove it is not God's word.Knowledgeable people know better than to accept Muhammd as God's prophet & the Quran as God's word.Mhmmd had poor knowledge of the Bible & the Christian faith which caused him commit many mistakes in composing the Quran.Muslims choose to ignore the facts & blindly accept the Quran as God's word. Muslims prfer a lie to the truth. True followers of God love the truth & reject the lie.Jesus said,I am the truth,the life & the only way to the Father.
Genesis 1 is not to be taken literally. What is important is the spirtual truths that are taught such as God is Creator of all, Man & woman are made in God's image, man and woman are made for each other. Many Christians, as well as I accept evolution as God's way of creating mankind. Adam was not a literal person so the Quran is wrong to declare Adam, God's first prophet. The Bible makes no such mistake. The Bible does not insist on literalism in all cases but allows for figurative language.
Early Christian theologians taught that Genesis 1 should not be interpreted literally. The Bible teaches that the spiritual meaning of scripture is more important than the literal. Muslims insist the Quran is the literal and perfect word of Allah. Muslims insist Adam was God's first prophet but God's revelation in nature declares human evolution from animals but not from Adam. Human evolution can be reconciled with the Christian faith but not with islam. Islam is not scientific but anti-science.
Adam come from the Hebrew word adamah, meaning earth. Mankind was made from the earth, all life came from the earth. All living forms evolved from the elements of the earth.
Teilhard de Cardin did believe humans evolved from animals. Didn't you access the link I gave you? Our bodies are composed of water and other elements of the earth. Life may have evolved in water but not solely from water. It may have evolved on the shore of a body of water where there is clay. Our bodies are basically composed of water, and carbon molecules.
I didn't see a link. I have skimmed through articles by this person you mentioned. I think you are in a dilema. What happens to the concept of original sin if we eveolved from animals? What is the pupose of Jesus' 'death' if there's no original sin?
Does Satan exist with this kind of concept and how so?
(1 Corinthians 15:45)"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul..." Was Paul telling a lie, or was he just stupid and did not know Adam was not to be taken literally?
Original sin is the animal nature that humans are born with & have inherited from our animal ancestors.What Paul is teaching is that Adam(humans) have a living soul. God created humans to have living souls. Jesus, the Lamb died on the cross to kill the animal nature in the human body that causes us to sin. Jesus frees us from the animal nature and gives us His divine nature as full sons of God. Through Christ, mankind evolves from the animal/man into the God/man and inherits the kingdom of God.
I would never teach the Quran to children or adults. I would throw it in the garbage bin where it belongs. Nor, should I cast my pearls before swine. I'm beggining to wonder about you.
Muhammed was teaching beyond his comprehension in denying the truth of the Holy Trinity and the divine sonship of Jesus (Sura 9:33). Muhammed accorded himself too much importance by calling himself God's messenger. Anyone can see the Quran is pure garbage.
The Holy Trinity is a mystery of God. It makes no sense to finite human minds, much less to those who lack the Holy Spirit. Allah al-Batin would best describe the Holy Trinity, Allah the Three in One.
Besides, who created this mystery that somehow we cannot understand? Where did this concept come from if humans cannot understand it. God never referred to Himself as three in one, so who created this confusion? ... Paul of Tarsus.
Al-Batin means God is a mystery. God's mystery is hidden in nature, in the Bible and in Jesus Christ who tells us baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the Torah, Genesis 18, God came to Abraham in the form of three men.
I'll let you teach me Arabic after you can show me where God refers to Himself in the OT as a three in one. Three angels appeared to Abraham in the oaks of Mamre, that was not God. Can you explain why God did not know where Sarah was? Can you explain why God was tired and had to rest under a tree, eat and drink?
the comparison with the baby, is like for what ? Jesus yes He was a child, and a God, but He as a child according to tradittion was very wise ! He was God as a child as much as the age permited the body to understand, to respond to the communion ! Jesus is a comunion of God and human ! He is the perfect mediator betwin human and God !
TheMistAnchorite 8 months ago
my God, cant become an ice cube, not because He doesnt can , but because it has no purpuse, no help for me ! so the comparison with that ice cube is not so good, because Jesus also RESURECTED, so the melted ice cube, meaning probably even death, was abolished
TheMistAnchorite 8 months ago
as both true God and true man: unmixed, unchanged, undivided, unseparable. What do we understand here ? we understand that the humanity of the Son of man comunicates inside the Mesiah, with God, they are one in comunication, is your SOUL, one with your FLESH ? does your SOUL need water ?
TheMistAnchorite 8 months ago
now waith a minute you dont know how God can become human, and remember the word is become,not BE as we find here this is the true meaning of what you say here be as in IS,this doesn t mean that He cant be man ! not become but be man ! this is what was wrong with the other video.Your logic in this video is weird, because God also created This material World DIRECTLY, and s the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters at Genesis 1,2 ! Psalm 115, 3 says that God makes on Earth all he desires !
TheMistAnchorite 8 months ago
Comment removed
TheMistAnchorite 8 months ago
asalam alykom brother keep up
hishamalyemeny 1 year ago
at least we have a God who was bigger than a human average size..or at least he is big enough not to be dragged and crucified by other humans..
jajaborduniyay 3 years ago
2 of your arguements here are fraudulent. Both the example of the ice cube and the baby are the same basic natures. Let me explain. It is true that water can become an ice cube but that ice cube is still water. That ice cube was always water. It's still the same basic element it's form has changed.
Likewise with the baby. That baby will still be a human no matter what it's age.
Therefore Jesus could become man but still be God in basic nature. This is what Phillipians 2:5-11 affirms.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
You cannot drink an ice cube. When ice cube become water, the ice cube is no more existent. Same goes for the baby. A baby becoming a man nullifies the existence of that baby.
If God became man, He would still be God, but the only God... no other one being prayed to by that man god.
webdawah 3 years ago
An ice cube is made of the same substance as water, just the form is different. Ice is just frozen water. Steam, though a gas, is just heated water. Same substance. A baby is still a human, as is an elderly person. Still human.
So by your logic, God can put on flesh and still be God.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Thank you for proving the incarnation.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
... you missed the explanation. If ever Gos became man, that man would not be praying to a god as he himself is the God. I did not expect you would get it.
webdawah 3 years ago
Finally, something for YOU to think about.
Please read Romans 1:1-4:
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures egarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Cont)
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
(Cont) According to Paul, Jesus's resurrection was clear proof that He is the Son of God. So the question is whether you believe that God rose Jesus from the dead or not.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Something for you to think about; Jesus was not a descendant of David, Joseph was. Joseph and Jesus are not related... except you think they are.
webdawah 3 years ago
Jesus is a decendant of David through Mary. Read Luke 3:23-38, which is Jesus's geneology from Mary (as contrasted with Matthew 1:1-16 which is Jesus's geneology from Joseph). Jesus is considered Joseph's firstborn Son through marriage. Scripture is clear that Jesus is a decended from David.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Talk about intellectual dishonesty, both the references you gave state the Joseph is the descendant of David, not Mary.
webdawah 3 years ago
That is because Isreal was a patriarchial society so women wern't normally named in geneologies. Joseph was put in instead of Mary. It is Mary's geneology because there is a difference from Solomon on. Joseph's geneology is the kingly line.
But to put this to rest you should know that Mary and Joseph's real firstborn was James. He was the writer of the book of James. What does James say about Jesus Christ?
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ (James 1:1)
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
You are not making any sense with the genealogy explanation, but since you want to escape, I'll help you.
Are you now quoting from James that almost did not make it into the Bible?
webdawah 3 years ago
I'm not wanting to escape. Believe me, you have proven nothing here. I am just tired of beating my head against a wall. When you have someone who will not acknoledge the obvious then they are obviously not willing to see the truth.
But the book of James DID make it into the Bible. Revelation also almost didn't make it in. Many of the things written in Revelation are now coming to pass or are about to come to pass. Where will you be when Jesus Christ returns?
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
I can give you many Quranic references that help solidify my faith, and hadiths too. These are the ones I consider to be the Truth.
webdawah 3 years ago
John 8:58-59: "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. (emphesis mine)
Compare with Exodus 3:14: God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "
You see then that this was a direct claim to Deity by Jesus. That is why the Jews tried to stone Him.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Notice also that this was during Jesus's ministry before His death, burial, and resurrection. This means that Jesus was God during this time.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
The Bible never says that Jesus stopped being God when He became man.
Phil 2:6-7:
6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
This doesn't mean that He stopped being God, Jesus's nature remained the same. Jesus gave up His position as God, His authority.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
I can find you many more places in the Bible that a person refers to themselves as "I am," should that mean they are all gods?
webdawah 3 years ago
It is clear from the context that the Jews knew what Jesus meant and you should know what Jesus meant as well. If you are going to be intellectually dishonest then we can end this discourse alltogether because it would be clear that you do not want to see the truth.
However, if you want to proceed then quit denying what is plainly there. No one else in scripture claimed to be I AM in Abraham's time (or before even which is CLEARLY what Jesus was referring to). Now what do you think?
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Everyone's creation is pre-ordained, and this predates the creation of man. God did not decide to create as time went by. So, there should be nothing wrong with anyone being even before Noah's time. It is not inconsistent with God's foreknowledge.
Your point was about "I Am," and I can find you numerous places where "I Am" was used by people not worshiped.
webdawah 3 years ago
Look, you are just being obstinate now. You can clearly see from the context that the Jews CLEARLY understood what Jesus meant when he said: "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58). You should again read John 8:59 and see what the Jews' reaction was to this statement. 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him (John 8:59). They obviously understood that He was claiming Deity. It is a shame that Satan has so clouded your understanding to not see something so obvious.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Spare me the Satan talk, and respond to my "Dubious writings." I don't like repeating myself.
webdawah 3 years ago
I will respond to it when I see it. I haven't seen it yet so I haven't responded yet.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
John 5:16-18: 16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
John 1:14: The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Whose words are these? God?
webdawah 3 years ago
Those are John's words. If you have a problem with John's testamony, a man who walked and talked with Jesus Christ, a man who testified to Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection, then HOW MUCH MORE should you have a problem with Muhammad who came along some 500 years later.
You might say that Muhammad talks for God and is God's Prophet but I could (and do) say the same thing about John. It is ridiculous to think that the Apostles got wrong what Muhammad would get right 500 years later.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Which John is this? How can you prove that the writer of this Gospel is John was was a disciple? John 21:24-25 clearly makes it dubious that this Gospel is written by the alleged disciple.
Besides, John was not a prophet.
webdawah 3 years ago
Again, you are biting off more than you can chew. John's gospel is almost universally accepted as being from the Apostle John. John 21:24-25 does not make it dubious at all. There are many references that indicate that John the Apostle wrote the book.
How do you know that he wasn't a prophet? And who are you to say that he wasn't a prophet? Because Muhammad said so??
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Universally accepted by Christians is what you meant to say. You offer no explanation for what is written in that reference given, but you go on to say it is universally accepted. By who?
webdawah 3 years ago
No, I mean that Biblical scholarship almost universally say that John the Apostle wrote the gospel of John. Meaning university professors. Too numerous to put here.
As for John being a prophet. John was an Apostle. He was one of the 12 disciples. The Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ are GREATER than the Prophets. Just as Jesus Christ is GREATER then the Prophets and the Apostles, being that He is God's Only Begotton Son. The Apostles proclaimed the gospel of Jesus Christ, and wrote scripture
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
... and cannot stay consistent about what was seen or not seen.
webdawah 3 years ago
Matthew 28:19: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (emphesis mine).
Notice that Jesus did not say names but name, meaning one name for the Trinity, that would be YHWH.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Where did you get the conclusion drawn? From Jesus or you had to make it fit?
If Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel, don't you find it contradicting that he wanted to make disciples of all nations? Another reason I find these Gospels dubious.
webdawah 3 years ago
Jesus was sent only to the nation of Isreal during His ministry before His death, burial, and resurrection. The great commission came after His resurrection and after Isreal had rejected His message.
Also, Jesus never rejected ANYONE who needed help. There are different examples in scripture where He did help gentiles including the one where you get your quote from. Jesus said that to the Canaanite woman, who He helped after He saw her great faith. That can be found in Matt 15:21-28.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Oh the same woman he is alleged to have referred to as of the 'dogs.' I don't see how this incident confirms making disciples of all nations.
webdawah 3 years ago
Again, when did Jesus say this about only being sent to Isreal? Was it before or after His death, burial, and resurrection? Before, right? And what about Matthew 28:18-20? Before or after? After right? Is it that you are truely so blinded that you cannot see these things or are you just being contentious? I cannot argue with someone who will say that it is night when it is day. Go ahead and live in your darkness if you want to. I will soon wash my hands with you.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Webdawah, it is not my intention to get be this way but if you want to argue such obvious points then there is not much that I can tell you. You will either believe or you will not. I will not judge you, God will.
Because, you see, unlike Allah who needs his people to propagate his religion by the sword, YHWH does not need to do so. YHWH has promissed that ALL will bow before Him and He will execute vengence upon the ungodly. He doesn't need man to do so.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Somehow you think by disparaging my beliefs, you will get me to believe what you believe.
What I don't get is why he is being worshiped all of a sudden, and he begins to contradict himself after the 'resurrection.' If he was going to die anyway, why not be truthful and up front about your being a god? Very dubious.
webdawah 3 years ago
I am not dsparaging your beliefs, I'm telling you the truth. I already told you about this. He is being worshipped because His resurrection proves that He IS God. That is why Thomas worshipped Him. He was also worshipped BEFORE He was resurrected. I have shown you some of those scriptures as well.
If you would just read the text with an open mind instead of just trying to disprove it God might show it to you.
Also, Jesus Christ is not "a god". HE IS GOD! The God of all creation.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
I don't remember where he was worshiped before 'resurrection,' but if something is inconsistent you will see the holes if you have an open mind.
webdawah 3 years ago
stronzo5785 1 year ago
@stronzo5785 Matthew 2 says they came to worship him. Apart from the striking similarity of this event with that of the story of Krishna, watch dubious writing parts 1-6.
I don't feel like typing.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah...frankly, I wouldn't feel like typing, either, if I had to defend an indefensible position.
Please source your assertion about similarities to the story of Krishna...
And...please don't think that you're off the hook with your attempt at distraction. You forgot about the other 11 passages I quoted...gosh, if I has so much homework to do I'd be too tired to type, too.
stronzo5785 1 year ago
@stronzo5785 I remember you and your tactics. I am responding to you out of respect, not because I think it's worth my time.
"World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Christianity Before Christ" by Kersey Graves, pp. 47.
Watch "Dubious Writings" parts 1 through 6, it would pretty much tell you how I feel about the New Testament that contains your quotes.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah
Thank you for your reply, and, though I disagree with you, I do respect your right to believe anything you like.
One problem with your source...neither Christ-myth proponents nor opponents recommend using Graves as a source. Indeed, Mr. Graves had no credentials as a historian, archeologist or religious studies scholar, and his works are criticized for their inaccuracy by people of all faiths mentioned in his book.
Got anyone else?
stronzo5785 1 year ago
@stronzo5785 I expect you to discredit the source. I am not a theology professor, but that does not mean that everything I say about religion is not credible, or true.
Would you like to hear it from a Hindu priest? I don't know how to access Hindu scriptures. Watch "The Hidden Story of Jesus" by Theologian, Dr Robert Beckford. Tell me that the Hindu priest is telling a lie about his religion.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah...you simply don't know how to source anything, proving again that you didn't do your homework.
To the point...you want we, who watch your videos, to do your research for you. I do respect the fact that you are admitting that you don't know how to access Hindu scriptures, but the fact that you source this material yet still quote it boggles the mind.
If I make an assertion, I use multiple sources that I can explain, and I give you the quote, so that you can check it out...you don't.
stronzo5785 1 year ago
@stronzo5785 I assume the Hindu priest is telling a lie about his religion to help my argument, and the theologian who asked the question knew in advance that we would have this conversation. Just like the devil knew in advance about the story of Jesus in the Bible and replicated it in other ancient religions. I saw this coming, quit wasting my time. "Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions" by Thomas William Doane
pp. 186.
"Christianity Before Christ" by John G. Jackson pp. 80.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah uh, John G. Jackson is an atheist, and Thomas William Doane is an agnostic. You, a Muslim, are desperate enough to support your point that you'd use people who don't believe in your god, to support some position that you can't even define.
Hey...I'm a Christian. I read and study the NT, because that document is a clear testament to the truth of God, and the truth found in the NT refutes the Quran.
Can't you address that?
stronzo5785 1 year ago
@stronzo5785 So, if I quote Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" even though he's a renowned scholar, you will discredit him as a source. If he were a Muslim, you will say he has bias. Can I ever give you a reference that you will accept, despite scholarship in the subject? I had written you off long ago as a dishonest individual, I only tried to give you a second chance to redeem yourself.
You have been blocked. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
webdawah 1 year ago
Quotemining a dictionary. This is a new low in arguing on Youtube...
Myrkky100 3 years ago
It would have done you some good if you actually picked up one. You don't quote mine dictionaries, definitions are constant.
webdawah 3 years ago
Meanings depend on the context.
Furthermore, it is a logical fallacy to claim that God, an inherently omnipotent entity, can't do something, that is the whole point of this vid.
Myrkky100 3 years ago
So, what's the context of God becoming man? If God became man, and still retained His person, that means there are two gods. What's more? One of those gods prayed, and beckoned on the other.
webdawah 3 years ago
In the context of an onipotent entity no action that entity takes can place limitations on that entity against its will.
No, it means that there are two persons. 3 persons, 1 being, that is the basis of the Trinity. Being human as well as divine, Jesus could experience the human condition, being separeted from God, and that is why He prayed to God the Father.
Myrkky100 3 years ago
What is the significance of the trinity, if all of the chosen people by God in the Old Testament never mentioned or alluded to a trinity in their teachings?
What is the purpose of worshipping a trinity, since you claim God is one? Did God give permission to worship Jesus, or the Holy Spirit? Neither did Jesus ask to be worshipped.
You are saying that God becomes man, then sends that man to earth. Apparently, that man takes instructions from a higher power. They both can't be the same person.
webdawah 3 years ago
Actually, the Trinity is implied in the Old Testament. (Psalm 2, Job 33:4)
Err You answered your own question on that second point: God is one. Hence, worshipping God means worshipping all three persons within Him and directing prayer to any one part of the Trinity is praying to the whole of it.
Yep, they arent the same person, they are different persons, hypostases, in one essence.
Myrkky100 3 years ago
I don't see any allusion to the trinity in the references you gave.
All the prophets before Jesus never claimed this trinity concept. Could it be that they had no knowledge?
Different persons cannot be the same person.
webdawah 3 years ago
Jesus recieved worship. Matt 14:23, 28:9,17, Lk 24:52, Jn 9:38.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
John 20:27-29:
27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Notice that Jesus did not correct Thomas here in his calling Jesus God.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
This does not mean Jesus was worshipped. Thomas could have well made that statement in exclamation. "Because you have seen me..." did Thomas not see him before that event? That was not a test of faith, but a clarification that he saw Jesus.
webdawah 3 years ago
First of all, scripture clearly portrays this scene as after the resurrection. So you will obviously object this whole scene if you are true to your Muslim beliefs (since Muslims are in the habit of denying the resurrection of Jesus Christ). (Cont)
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Thomas was saying one of 2 things both of which deserved a rebuke from Jesus if Jesus is not God. Thomas was either calling Jesus his Lord and His God or Thomas was making an exclamation at the marvel of Jesus's resurrection. If Thomas was making an exclamation, then Jesus should have rebuked him for taking God's name in vain, which He didn't do. If Thomas was calling Jesus his Lord and God then Jesus didn't refute this either. Jesus's response suggests that Thomas was doing the latter.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
The problem with this is that Jesus never called himself a god and never asked to be worshiped before the 'crucifixion. where then did this idea that Jesus is a god come from, that Thomas would adopt it?
webdawah 3 years ago
Thomas response came from the fact that he was seeing a Man who he knew was dead yet was standing alive before him, with the wounds of His crucifixion at that. Also Thomas knew the scriptures that spoke of the Messiah and His death, burial, and resurrection. Jesus Christ's resurrection was proof of His Deity. Read Romans 1:2-4.
BudManInChrist 3 years ago
Which scriptures talk about the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah? Besides, which ones talk of the messiah being a diety?
webdawah 3 years ago
Jesus said, You call Me Teacher and Lord, and rightly so, for this is what I am; John 13:13. You have one Teacher, the Messiah; Matthew 23:10. These are but some of many verses that lead us to correctly conclude, Jesus is the Messiah and Lord of Israel.
evo55 3 years ago
I asked you to show me where God said that Jesus is the "Lord of Israel" as you claimed.
webdawah 3 years ago
I gave you some scriptures to ponder over. God will not spoon feed you like a baby. He wants you to search the Bible for the truth. God hides His mysteries in the Bible so that only those who truly love Him will find Him. For this reason Jesus sometimes spoke in parables that people could not understand.
evo55 3 years ago
How do you worship a God that hides His signs? God supposedly wants to confuse you and confirm that you love him if the confusion does not succeed? Think about what you say.
webdawah 3 years ago
The book of Proverbs states in 25:2, "It is the glory of God to hide a matter and the glory of kings is to seek it out". The sin of a man cofuses him. God's glory was to send His son (who did not openly declare His divinity), to reveal God's truth of salvation through faith in Jesus' death on the cross. The confusion of Muhammed caused him to reject Jesus as God's Son and as the only way to be saved from God's condemnation.
evo55 3 years ago
The verse from proverbs you showed does not say what you showed. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter."
I asked you about the signs of God. How do we know these things if they are hidden? How could we be faulted for not unravelling these hidden signs?
The only reason Jesus did not say he was God, is because he is not. Paul made him so.
webdawah 3 years ago
Christians know the mysteries of God through the Holy Spirit who reveals the mysteries of God to us. Muslims cannot recieve the Holy Spirit, the Spirt of Truth for they reject Jesus divine Sonship and atoning death and resurrection. God declared to John the Baptist that Jesus was the Son of God. John declared Jesus to have existed before John was born. Jesus never denied being God and accepted the worship of those who called Him Lord and God. Jesus as a teacher and prophet never corrected them.
evo55 3 years ago
Your comment is a buch of contradictions. A prophet is someone who depends on God for prophecies. Jesus never claimed to be God, and was never worshipped in his lifetime. Paul invented this doctrine.
webdawah 3 years ago
A prophet is someone who speaks forth the words of God. Jesus spoke the words of God. He was the divine Word of God made flesh. Jesus claimed to be God when He said to the Jews, "Before Abraham was born, I Am." The Jews then tried to stone Jesus for blasphemy, they knew that when God first revealed himself to Moses, He used the name, I Am. Read John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14
evo55 3 years ago
I have seen this argument before. "Before Abraham was born, I Am" is not a name, but part of a sentence. Many people used the phrase 'I am" in the Bible, are they not all gods then?
webdawah 3 years ago
The Jews understood what Jesus meant. Why else would they have wanted to stone Him?
evo55 3 years ago
If they stoned him for saying "I am," that would have been a blasphemy charge. It's just a clear contradiction that when he was on trial, nobody brought up the "I am" charge.
webdawah 3 years ago
Read Mark 14:62-64, or Matthew 26:63-66. Jesus is charged with blasphemy for equating himself with God. There was no need for an exact charge of using the "I Am" title of God.There were other things Jesus had said that would be considered blasphemy to Jews.
jonbarnhill77 3 years ago
In the refernces you gave, he said he was the Christ(Messiah), not God. They charged him with blasphemy, because they did not see him to be the Messiah. Not that they thought he claimed to be God.
webdawah 3 years ago
Read Mark 14:61-62. The High Priest asked Jesus if he is the Messiah and Son of the Blessed One (God). Jesus answers that he is.
jonbarnhill77 3 years ago
The problem is that the Jews never envisaged the Messiah to be God. So the Hight Priest was not thinking that Jesus calimed to be God.
webdawah 3 years ago
When Jesus showed Thomas the wounds He received at the crucifixion, Thomas believed and called Jesus, My Lord and My God. Instead of correcting Thomas, Jesus blesses Thomas and says, "blessed are those who believe but have not seen". Jesus did not have to correct Thomas for Thomas correctly declared Jesus to be Lord and God. Read John 20:28,29.
evo55 3 years ago
He did not declare Jesus a god, but exclaimed in surprise.
Can you fill in the gap? Jesus never called himself God, then why was Thomas all of a sudden calling him one?
webdawah 3 years ago
Webdawah, Thomas would not use God's name in vain to exclaim surprise. Jews are not to use God's name in vain. Thomas was declaring Jesus to be his Lord and God.
jonbarnhill77 3 years ago
I'll ask you the same question I asked before. Can you fill in the gap? Jesus never called himself God, then why was Thomas all of a sudden calling him one?
webdawah 3 years ago
Jesus never denied being God. Jesus should have corrected Thomas and told him to stop calling him Lord and God if Thomas had been wrong. Instead, Jesus blesses those who believe in Him without have seen what Thomas has seen. Jesus previously told His disciples they are correct in calling Him, Lord. The Holy Spirit led Thomas to not only call Jesus, Lord but also his God.
jonbarnhill77 3 years ago
I asked you to show me where people had been calling Jesus God before this incident with Thomas, not conjecture.
webdawah 3 years ago
Webdawah, you can come to the understanding that Jesus is Lord of Israel by reading Luke 1:16,17,67-79. Jesus was sent by the Father. Jesus himself claimed the Father sent Him on His mission to heal the sick, give sight to the blind, bind up the wounded, set the captives of Satan free and give His life for the salvation of mankind.
evo55 3 years ago
Your references don't say what you claim. It seems difficult for you to even understand the book you base your faith upon. No human here was called "Lord of Israel." And the whole passage was talking about John the baptist, not Jesus.
webdawah 3 years ago
John the Baptist is the forerunner of the Messiah,the Lord & king of Israel.He is to prepare the people of Israel to receive the kingdom of God.If you read the intervening verses in chap.1, John,while still in the womb of his mother, is filled with God's Spirit & jumps for joy in the prescence of Mary who is pregnant with Jesus.John was to be filled with the God's Spirit from before his birth as was foretold by the angel.The connection between Jesus and John is established before their births.
evo55 3 years ago
You still did not show any mention of Jesus as the "Lord of Israel."
webdawah 3 years ago
the bible says about jesus
CHILD GREW(LUKE 2:40)
WAXED STRONG(LUKE 2:40)
what makes him god
hishamalyemeny 3 years ago
Jesus was both God & man. In the Gospel,He is called the Son of God & the Son of Man. Jesus is God because He is One with the Father, and the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son and the Holy Sprit are one God. In the Bible,God,the Father speaks from heaven saying of Jesus, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." The Holy Spirit in our hearts testifies that Jesus is the Son of God and one God with the Father.The Holy Spirit,whom Muslims cannot receive, reveals the mysteries of God to us.
evo55 3 years ago
Can you show any verse of the Bible where Jesus claimed that God is three in one?
webdawah 3 years ago
Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit;Matthew 28:19. Baptism is the seal of God by which we become His children. Jesus said, He and the Father are One. Jesus also spoke of the Holy Spirit as coming from the Father. Jesus did not fully reveal the mystery of the Trinity but sent the Holy Spirit to reveal this mystery after His ascension into heaven. God, the Holy Spirit is the Teacher and Helper of the Church who guides us unto all Truth.
evo55 3 years ago
This verse does not say that God is three in one. If you baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit what was Jesus baptized in? Give Biblical verses.
webdawah 3 years ago
It does not explicitly say that but it is implied.The Gospel teaches that in Jesus dwelt the Father,Son and Holy Spirit. Christian baptism is to make us like Christ.We are to be sons of God,being One with the Father,Son & Holy Spirit.Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.John the Baptist only baptized Jews to receive their Messiah & prepare them for the kingdom of God.Jesus did not have to be baptized but submitted to baptism since He was a Jew & as a sign for John the Baptist;John 1:30,31.
evo55 3 years ago
Why did he have to show John the baptist a sign? So, your main belief is not even explicit, but you are quick to tell whose prayers are not answered?
If Jesus, and the Father can be at separate places at the same time, and one is praying to the other, it's obvious that only one of them is God.
webdawah 3 years ago
God, the Father told John that the man on whom he saw the Spirit come upon, He is the Messiah and Lord of Israel. The sign was for John to believe in Jesus as Lord and Son of God. Jesus, the Son of Man needed to pray to God. Jesus was limited in His humanity and needed to ask God's help to perform His mission.
evo55 3 years ago
Can you show the verse were God called Jesus the lord of Israel?
You mean Jesus takes permission from God? How then could you call him God? Jesus as God came down to earth on his own, but when he got to earth he required permission from God? Does that make any sense to you?
webdawah 3 years ago
Webdawah, You're wrong; Jesus did not come on His own. Jesus said, His Father in heaven sent Him.
evo55 3 years ago
So, God sent himself?
webdawah 3 years ago
God is a mystery. It is futile for you to try to understand His trinitarian nature with your finite mind. It is as if an atheist or polytheist might ask, if God is one, how can He possibly hear so many prayers at once? The Trinity is a more difficut concept to grasp but is as true as God's Oneness. Just as true is the Incarnation of God's Son. John the Baptist speaks of Jesus as having existed before him. This leads us to conclude Jesus preincarnate existence with God, the Father.
evo55 3 years ago
God is only one, you and I know that. All these trinitarian concepts are pagan. Why did God hide this trinitarian quality in the Old Testament? Why did he hide it from Moses, Abraham and all the prophets? Are the OT people less important than Paul?
webdawah 3 years ago
How can someone be God & man at the same time? Can someone be alive and dead at the same time?!
in the Bible several people were called sons of God, how many sons of God should I worship? Psa 2:7,Jer 31:9,Luk 3:38 just to name a few, That alone ruins the concept of Trinity. Trinity + other sons of God.
I don't worship someone because he was called son of man! How does that make him divine?! We don't even believe that Jesus had a father, so he's not really a son of man.
heidi1981work 3 years ago
Yes, Jesus was one with God in "message" because he is God's messenger. Same message.
No, Jesus wasn't one with God in "divinity" because:
- Jesus was born, God isn't born.
- Jesus died when God is the ever-living.
- Jesus didn't know the Day of Judgment, God knows it
- Jesus got hungry and didn't know that the tree didn't have figs on it
- Jesus had a separate will than God.
- the Father is greater than ALL.
Just to name a few.
heidi1981work 3 years ago
God is a mystery, He can be both God and man. Jesus did not die only His body died and was buried.Jesus descended into Hell.The Psalms say,even if I descend into Hell,You(God) are there.The Bible says all men are sons of God. We are all sons of God by virtue of our common descent from Adam who is called the son of God.Jesus is unique in being born of a virgin and the power of the Holy Spirit. He is the only begotten Son of God by this miraculous act & is to be worshipped as God by all mankind.
evo55 3 years ago
GOD is "a spirit" Joh 4:24 "not a man" Hos 11:9 "not the son of man" Num 23:19 God
"changes NOT" Mal 3:6 SO he can NOT be God & man or God then man at any point, he's a spirit
"our Father who art in Heaven"
God can be in "Hell"? this verse wasn't said by Jesus & it's about God being omniscient.
Jesus (a man, not a spirit) was unique in being born of a virgin & the power of the "Holy Spirit" that he was going to send AFTER he goes away?
"only begotten son" NO I provided verses for other sons.
heidi1981work 3 years ago
You misunderstand the Bible just as your own prophet did.Hosea,Numbers,& Malachi were written before Jesus was born.They do not contradict the Incarnation of God.God is Omnipresent as He is Omniscent,His presence can be in Hell.God sends the Holy Spirit to Christians so we too can be sons of God as Christ was the Son of God.Jesus is the firstborn of many brothers.There are many types of sons. All men are sons of God by their common humanity. Only Jesus and Xtians are true sons of God in Spirit.
evo55 3 years ago
allah is the biggest
hishamalyemeny 3 years ago
one more verse for those who didn't read the Bible:
John 17:3 And this is life eternal,that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD,AND JESUS CHRIST,WHOM THOU HAST SENT
the Bible, Jesus' words also
heidi1981work 3 years ago 2
well said brother
heidi1981work 3 years ago
reply to a couple postings,
God is "Al-Muthil" of those who deserve it and he is "Al-Mu'ez" of those who deserve it.
Jesus is not God,he never said he's God and he said
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:7 howbeit in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
the Bible,Jesus' words!
If Christians did read the NT they would have stopped following the commandments of men, worshiping Jesus in vain.
heidi1981work 3 years ago 2
heidi, Jesus never denied He was God. He accepted the worship of those who called Him Lord and God. He was a prophet and a teacher who would have corrected such excess if it were not true. Jesus knew it was confimation from God that people would worship Him as God.Jesus never would proudy proclaim to be God for that was not in His character as a humble man. Christians do not worship Jesus in vain. Jesus hears and answers Christian prayers much better than Allah does for Muslims.
evo55 3 years ago
"much better than Allah does for Muslims" How did you know that?
Jesus never claimed to be God and nobody ever worshipped him in his lifetime.
webdawah 3 years ago
God answers Christians prayers. God rescued me from dying through the prayers of my Christian family and friends. God answers the prayers of people who believe in Jesus,the Son of God. Christianity continues to grow much faster than Islam because God answers the prayers of those who believe in His Son. Muslims who reject Jesus as God's Son do not prosper. Muslims are among the most backwards of people in the world who must immigrate to Christian countries in order to prosper. Islam is a curse.
evo55 3 years ago
By your way of thinking, every Christian must be more prosperous than every Muslim... which is not true. I hope you see the fallacy in your logic.
With what statistics do you base your assertion that Muslims must migrate to Christian countries to prosper? Actually, the leaders of so called Christian countries invade Muslim lands to impede this prosperity. How much prosperity would you find in a country like Iraq that has been war torn for over 5 years, and invaded by prosperous Christians?
webdawah 3 years ago
Those who follow the teachings of Christ do prosper. Western countries whose ethics are based on the Christian Bible also prosper. Muslims who follow the Quran do not prosper for it teaches killing, subjugating & hatred of non-Muslims. Iraq cannot prosper because of Muslim hatred and violence. US wants to help Iraqis but jihadis will not let them. US invaded Iraq to liberate Iraq from Saddam's tyranny. Saddam killed more Muslims than the US bombs. Muslim Jihadis are the ones killing Muslims.
evo55 3 years ago
That's either a delibrate lie, or a comment made out of Ignorance. Over a million Iraqis have died in the last 5 years. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc are filled with Muslims who follow the Qur'an, and many Westerners are there through migration...I wonder what they are doing there.
U.S. invaded Iraq for oil...simple. They lied about WMDs, and the whole world has seen this. Name one Western country whose ethics are based on Christian Bible, just one. Show one Qur'anic verse that says 'hate.'
webdawah 3 years ago
Most million+Iraqis who died did so at the hands of other Muslims.Arab countries which import workers do so to do menial jobs which Arabs are too proud to do or do not have the expertise to do.Western countries do not have laws against apostasy. They allow for religious freedom.Freedom of religion is derived from the Christian Bible. Muslim countries do not have full religious freedom & prohibit Muslims from leaving Islam. Quran hate speech is found in Quran 2:65;5:51,60;9:30;58:22,98:6
evo55 3 years ago
What statistics do you use to know who died in the hands of Muslims? Western countries too have visa programs that does just what you calim Arabs do. Don't be a hypocrite. Can you show me religious freedom in the Bible?
I don't know which of the verses you posted above teaches to hate as you claimed. Can you post the words you see teaching hate?
webdawah 3 years ago
Who needs statistics? Almost everyday one reads of some terrorist act committed by Muslims in the name of islam, the same as in Iraq. Non-Muslims may work in Muslim countries but do not want to become second-class citizens. Muslims who immigrate to Western countries do want to become citizens. They find more freedom and prosperity in Christian countries than in Muslim. The Bible teaches us the love and grace of God. The Bible does not teach Christians to kill apostates or enemies of Jesus.
evo55 3 years ago
I asked you to show the verses that allude to religious freedom in the Bible, but you have not.
How do you know that Muslims who go to Christian countries want to become citizens? Do you work for the immigration services?
You are either not truthful or you don't know better. If Islam preaches terrorism, you would not be behind your computer today typing these things. It's common sense.
webdawah 3 years ago
Webdawah, The New Testament says, God is love. 1 Corinthians 13 says, Love is gentle and kind. It does not force itself. God does not force people to follow Him if they do not want to. God gives us free will to reject Him. There is no apostasy law in the N.T. I know Muslims want to stay in Western countries by the many mosques being built. I can criticize islam because of the freedom that exists in my country. If I lived in a Muslim country, I wuld be in jail or dead. That's common sense.
evo55 3 years ago
Everyone knows Love in an attribute of God. You have decided not to show me this verse you claim preaches freedom of religion in the New Testament. If you want to talk about apostacy, there is no apostacy law in the Qur'an either.
webdawah 3 years ago
God's Spirit guided Christians to eventually eliminate slavery, although there is no verse in the Bible prohibiting it. The same goes for allowing the freedom of religion. Muslims would still be practicing slavery if not for Christians who were the first to eliminate it. The Quran(5:33) does teach maiming, killing & crucifying the enemies of Allah and Muhammed. Sufi saint,Mansur al-Hallaj was crucified by Muslim authorities for blasphemy against Islam.Like Jesus,he was crucified as an apostate.
evo55 3 years ago
Qur'an 5:33 is not teaching anything, but commenting on events that have happened. The Prophet showed us a great exapmle by freeing slaves long before the west emulated this example.
webdawah 3 years ago
Quran 5:33 is written in the present tense to Muslims. They are to cut off hands & feet, crucify, kill or exile the enemies of Allah & his messenger(Muhammed). Mansur al-Hallaj was crucified in obedience to this command by the Muslim Caliph. Muhammed did own slaves. Muhammed and his followers only freed some slaves, but only those who became Muslim. Jesus never owned slaves but became as a servant of men. He washed the feet of His disciples as an example of Christian servanthood and humility.
evo55 3 years ago
Can you post the Quranic verse on your next comment? Let's see if it is commanding to do anything.
I thought Jesus was God, why are you comparing him to Muhammad who was a man? It clearly shows that deep inside you, you know that Jesus was just a man.
webdawah 3 years ago
Why should I post it? You and I know what Quran 5:33 commands Muslims to do. Why don't you post it and then try to hide what it really says. Jesus was both God and man. I realize God is a mystery and can become incarnate in Jesus Christ. I know Muhammed was just a man and a sinner. I know he was no prophet of God. No prophet of God would marry his son's wife and then say God allowed it. He would be committing the triple sins of adultery, incest and blasphemy.
evo55 3 years ago
Webdawa, Don't act ignorant. You know the Quranic verses I cited negatively describe non-Muslims. Such verses create prejudice and hatred in the minds of Muslims towards non-believers. "May God curse them" (Sura 9:30)does not teach love but hatred. There are no Quranic verses teaching Muslims to love their enemies, only verses to fight, subjugate or kill their enemies. Jesus teaches believers to forgive & love their enemies, to return good for evil and not retaliate.
evo55 3 years ago
I am not acting ignorant, you are the one displaying ignorance and I don't fault you for that. Anyone reading that verse without knowledge would say the same. "May God curse them" is an Arabic expression used for something abhorent. It's far from a hate speech.
webdawah 3 years ago
So Muhammed says, Christians and the Christian faith are abhorent. This still sounds like hate speech to me. If any politician or person in the media were to declare Muslims and their faith to be abhorent, Muslims would be rioting in the streets and declaring fatwas of death on the blasphemers.
evo55 3 years ago
The Qur'an is God's words, and He's not a politician or media personnel. Ascribing godhood to a man, or sonhood of God to a man are all pagan as the verse alludes.
webdawah 3 years ago
The errors of the Quran prove it is not God's word.Knowledgeable people know better than to accept Muhammd as God's prophet & the Quran as God's word.Mhmmd had poor knowledge of the Bible & the Christian faith which caused him commit many mistakes in composing the Quran.Muslims choose to ignore the facts & blindly accept the Quran as God's word. Muslims prfer a lie to the truth. True followers of God love the truth & reject the lie.Jesus said,I am the truth,the life & the only way to the Father.
evo55 3 years ago
You reject the Qur'an based on alleged errors? How come you are a Christian? Have you read the Bible lately?
How can you live with the record in Genesis that God allegedly created light(1:3) before creating the sun(1:16)? That's a tip of the iceberg.
webdawah 3 years ago
Genesis 1 is not to be taken literally. What is important is the spirtual truths that are taught such as God is Creator of all, Man & woman are made in God's image, man and woman are made for each other. Many Christians, as well as I accept evolution as God's way of creating mankind. Adam was not a literal person so the Quran is wrong to declare Adam, God's first prophet. The Bible makes no such mistake. The Bible does not insist on literalism in all cases but allows for figurative language.
evo55 3 years ago
At the face of "errors" you claim "figgurative language." How then do you take everything in the Qur'an to call it erroneous?
BTW, Adam was a literal man and God's Prophet. I'll like to see these Christian views of Adam being a figurative model.
webdawah 3 years ago
Early Christian theologians taught that Genesis 1 should not be interpreted literally. The Bible teaches that the spiritual meaning of scripture is more important than the literal. Muslims insist the Quran is the literal and perfect word of Allah. Muslims insist Adam was God's first prophet but God's revelation in nature declares human evolution from animals but not from Adam. Human evolution can be reconciled with the Christian faith but not with islam. Islam is not scientific but anti-science.
evo55 3 years ago
That's why I asked you to show me which Christian theologians say we evolved from animals.
webdawah 3 years ago
Adam come from the Hebrew word adamah, meaning earth. Mankind was made from the earth, all life came from the earth. All living forms evolved from the elements of the earth.
evo55 3 years ago
That's not what I asked you. I asked for Christian theologians who say we evolved from animals.
BTW, evolutionists believe that all life forms are from water, not the earth.
webdawah 3 years ago
Teilhard de Cardin did believe humans evolved from animals. Didn't you access the link I gave you? Our bodies are composed of water and other elements of the earth. Life may have evolved in water but not solely from water. It may have evolved on the shore of a body of water where there is clay. Our bodies are basically composed of water, and carbon molecules.
evo55 3 years ago
I didn't see a link. I have skimmed through articles by this person you mentioned. I think you are in a dilema. What happens to the concept of original sin if we eveolved from animals? What is the pupose of Jesus' 'death' if there's no original sin?
Does Satan exist with this kind of concept and how so?
(1 Corinthians 15:45)"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul..." Was Paul telling a lie, or was he just stupid and did not know Adam was not to be taken literally?
webdawah 3 years ago
Original sin is the animal nature that humans are born with & have inherited from our animal ancestors.What Paul is teaching is that Adam(humans) have a living soul. God created humans to have living souls. Jesus, the Lamb died on the cross to kill the animal nature in the human body that causes us to sin. Jesus frees us from the animal nature and gives us His divine nature as full sons of God. Through Christ, mankind evolves from the animal/man into the God/man and inherits the kingdom of God.
evo55 3 years ago
You know you are not making any sense, right?
You say it is a pre-determined process that we evolve from animals, and you are saying it is also a sin to have animal traits.
God had to sacrifice Jesus(in form of another animal=lamb) to remove animal traits.
I hope you are not teaching this garbage to kids.
webdawah 3 years ago
I would never teach the Quran to children or adults. I would throw it in the garbage bin where it belongs. Nor, should I cast my pearls before swine. I'm beggining to wonder about you.
evo55 3 years ago
You can't teach what's above your comprehension. Stop according yourself too much importance.
I see why you decided not to regard my comment, you too can see it's pure garbage.
webdawah 3 years ago
Muhammed was teaching beyond his comprehension in denying the truth of the Holy Trinity and the divine sonship of Jesus (Sura 9:33). Muhammed accorded himself too much importance by calling himself God's messenger. Anyone can see the Quran is pure garbage.
jonbarnhill77 3 years ago
You see, the 'Holy Trinity' makes no sense. You will twist and turn and flip to explain it without coming across.
The Quran contains many statements of truth, one of them is that Jesus(pbuh) was just a man, and nothing more.
webdawah 3 years ago
The Holy Trinity is a mystery of God. It makes no sense to finite human minds, much less to those who lack the Holy Spirit. Allah al-Batin would best describe the Holy Trinity, Allah the Three in One.
jonbarnhill77 3 years ago
Al Batin means The Hidden, not three in one.
Besides, who created this mystery that somehow we cannot understand? Where did this concept come from if humans cannot understand it. God never referred to Himself as three in one, so who created this confusion? ... Paul of Tarsus.
webdawah 3 years ago
Al-Batin means God is a mystery. God's mystery is hidden in nature, in the Bible and in Jesus Christ who tells us baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the Torah, Genesis 18, God came to Abraham in the form of three men.
jonbarnhill77 3 years ago
I'll let you teach me Arabic after you can show me where God refers to Himself in the OT as a three in one. Three angels appeared to Abraham in the oaks of Mamre, that was not God. Can you explain why God did not know where Sarah was? Can you explain why God was tired and had to rest under a tree, eat and drink?
Come off it.
webdawah 3 years ago
Genesis 18 does say the Lord appeared to Abraham. Some translations use God others Jehova.