Squat Rx #12 (Part I)

[BigShotLDN]

very good & helpful

[aalexcp]

Any types on knowing my knees aren't too outward nor too inward? Should the feet be completely on the floor? I find that if I turn my knees more outward, the inside of the foot loses contact with the floor and when my knees bow too inward the outer part of the foot loses contact with the floor.

[mistryman112]

Wow good strong legs

[Posercorpse]

so if my hips shift to the left when i squat(which happens to me all the time...yes i experienced a knee injury before...my right knee) does this mean i need to bring the strength up of my right knee ofr left knee? i tried to clear this up before but to my astonshment my right knee was just as strong as my left while performing bulgarian split squats...can you help me?

[slowfingers1]

I wish one of the issues discussed here would have been with folks who have trouble getting as deep as they need to. I have trouble getting to and definitely beyond parallel. The mind is willing, but I just can not physically get there.

By the way, all these videos are great! Thanks so much for providing them!

[johnnymnemonic2]

I talk about this in the blog in an entry titled "I Can't Squat ATF and Other Tales of Woe..". Send me a PM if you can't find it.

[71grandprix]

Great video, you hit the nail on the head with everything in this presentation. I'm glad there are more people out there that actually critically think when they lift and can relay that information in a useful way. Keep up the good work.

[will1988a]

Be carefull on wide stance squats!

Wide stance squats mainly use the glutes/hanstrings, and as a bodybuilder you definatley dont want 2 build up youre glutes to massive proportions (like i have). I have been squatting with a 2 x 4 under my heels now for 3 months, and the size and shape of my front quads has improved remarkabley. no, i cant shift the same amout of weight, but the musclew is developing in a much better way. Also try pre-exhausting leg extensions with leg presses as an alernative

[bigdogg1978]

kool..so u use front squats for the lower quad, we dnt have a hack machine at our gym,,wats the best way to develop that sweep??

[bigdogg1978]

just wondering does the squat thicken the waist, arnold use to say that to. im tallish 1.83cm, any little tips in squatting properly would be great

[johnnymnemonic2]

I think the short answer to that is 'yes', but probably not any more than any other lift that strongly stresses core strength and stability.

[bigdogg1978]

thanks for the info..at present this is my second week of squats having never done them before and ive got to 150kgs, wat do u think bout straps and a belt, after squat,my adductor was sore so im actually also working on them specifically becuase the right one was ached.i dnt feel any issues with knees or lumbar..should i use straps and belts??

[realworksuks]

I have a couple questions for you

I have the 1st edition of starting strength, is it worth it to pick up the second edition? Why or why not? What changes are made?

Also, when I squat I try my hardest to keep my lower back tightly arched and my chest up and out. This puts a lot of stress on my back, especially my lower back, is this normal? It feels like a reverse hyperextension. I just started to try and correct my form a couple of days ago.

Thanks for your help.. love the videos!

[realworksuks]

I have been trying for the past couple days to correct my squat form. I read we have to keep our chest up, and our lower back has to maintain a tight arch without rounding...

When I do this my back feels a lot of pressure.

Is it normal for your back to feel a lot of the work when squatting? I suppose it is just like doing reverse hyperextensions throughout the whole movement... is this alright? I think my squat is ok besides that..

[gooz007]

I've asked a lot of people and researched on many websites about my heels raising but I still can't understand why. I don't have any problem keeping my heels on the ground and dropping even below parallel when i hold my hand to something. Because otherwise I will loose my balance. Another way that works for me is to use a wide stance. But with a normal stance as soon as i fall in the hole i fall from behind.

[johnnymnemonic2]

I think you need to practice and experiment. Limb length is a factor. So is flexibility. So is bar positioning. So is stance. So is squat technique - if you are "sitting back", you will need to compensate by having more forward lean. If you are doing full squats, you will need to squat more upright.

[OnePremier]

Love the videos... been extrordinarily help full. But one comment and two questions. You keep saying hip adduction... aren't you referring to hip abduction? Maybe its just the mediocre audio quality and you're saying it correctly.

My question is I have clients who's feet flatten out severely when squatting and it sometimes causes their knees to bow in. What can I do to address the problem of the flattening arches? And also where'd you get that T-shirt?

[johnnymnemonic2]

I'm sure I could have said adduction where I should have said abduction and vice-versa. For those who are confused: Adduction = moving toward the body centerline, Abduction = moving away from the body centerline. Where in the video are you referring to?

As far as arches go, a lot of people manage with fallen arches. But, a good olympic weightlifting shoe provides great arch support and a solid base to squat on. Yeah, they're pricey, but they're worth it.

I made the shirt.

[lorentzus]

Pretty sad to see people take it personally when I make comments about the hamstrings during squats. Even more hilarious when someone refuses to believe basic anatomy! This is how the hamstrings in the human body works! Nothing more, nothing less.

Can you stretch the hamtstrings during squats with your knees flexed? Unless you are spastic, the answer is NO!

[johnnymnemonic2]

You haven't read those books I recommended, have you... Btw, Coach Rippetoe has a new edition out of Starting Strength - I highly recommend you start there.

[lorentzus]

Ok. I am specialized in sports medicine, so I have read og are reading my share of scientific literature on daily basis. I especially enjoy reading health- and sportsrelated articles from PubMed and Cochraine.

Functional anathomy is basic knowledge, so if you have any articles that supports your new theory, please notify me!

[johnnymnemonic2]

Funny you should mention that. I was approached by Jon Cohen of Stanford who asked for permission to use the videos in a functional anatomy course...

To bad none of your coursework covered squatting. Please feel free to post a video reply and show us your squatting prowess.

[lorentzus]

Why do I have to post an instructional squat-video to prove basic anathomy about the hamstrings? You don't have to be a smartass just because I disagree with you, so don't pretend what books I have read or not.

[johnnymnemonic2]

It's pretty clear to me that you have not read enough, nor squatted enough to comment here further. Goodbye.

[lorentzus]

I advise you to read more serious litterature than those written by commersial and self-educated coaches. I've read some of the "Starting Strenght"-book, and the content is in many ways amateurish and unprofessional.

[johnnymnemonic2]

You're really done now. Don't post here again.

[71grandprix]

I've met so many of you so called experts lorentzus and I've never met one that knew a thing about lifting. I cannot believe that you've been lifting and especially not training people for 14 years. If you have been I feel sorry for your clients. I'll bet that you think 135lbs is a HEAVY good morning. People like you make me laugh and give me a reason to read the comment sections of these videos. Lets see some of your videos "oh man of knowledge".

[checkerschess]

Johnny, Thanks very much for your videos. I'm a woman teaching myself squats and deadlifts at a health club where lifters do little else than bench -- and trainers seem to have little experience. I've been looking for high quality technical tips on the web for several months. It's very kind of you to offer this for free!

[johnnymnemonic2]

Thanks Checkers. Having real life instruction is the way to go if you can get it, but I'm very happy you're finding the series helpful. Let me know if there are other things about squatting you'd like to see covered.

[lorentzus]

Correction: Wehen you do good-mornings you actualle have extended knees, so you can stretch the length, but the strong contraction of the hamstrings (otherwise you would be falling forward) usually prevents the excercise form being a mobility/"stretch"- excercise

[johnnymnemonic2]

Lorentzus,

I said this to the guys over at Squat Rx #3, but you really need to spend some more time in the squat racks and reading... Spend some time with people who know what they are talking about like Louie Simmons, Mel Siff, and Mark Rippitoe. Get back to us after you have.

[tangawizi]

You talk absolute nonsense. GM aren't done with extended knees. To say you can't stretch the hams with flexed knees displays a complete lack of any real experience doing these exercises and/or a 'coach' who needs replacing because he's filling your head with rubbish. READ MORE, DO MORE.

[johnnymnemonic2]

I don't remember saying that... wait a minute... are you one of those trolls I blocked just logged in under a new name? Seriously, don't you have anything else to do?

How about you post a video reply, so you can demonstrate your tremendous knowledge and skill for us all?

[tangawizi]

My comments were in response to Lorentzus's unfounded and ill-educated remarks about your excellent videos. I currently work with 2 former professional strength athlete's as coaches and your demonstrations and explanations of squat tech are by far the best we've seen on the web. Keep 'em coming...

[johnnymnemonic2]

Thanks. I'm sorry I didn't see the sarcasm right away. I appreciate that.

[lorentzus]

I have trained and been an instructor for fourteen years.

If you think that the "stretch"-feel you get with a good-morning or deadlift is caused by lengthening of the hamstrings, you truly have misunderstood how the body works! What do you think happen when you do this excercises, since you don't think I have done them properly??

[johnnymnemonic2]

Lorentzus,

This is getting old. If you don't believe the hamstring can be stretched with a flexed knee, then it's pretty clear to me that you have never deadlifted or done a good morning (at least not properly). You have a lot to learn and do us a favor and spend some time in the gym before telling us how wrong we all are.

[johnnymnemonic2]

I'm trying to be nice here... As I said to the guys over at SQ Rx #3, you really need to spend more time in the squat rack and broaden your reading list a little.

I can't post links here, but if you do a search for "biarticular muscles concurrent movement lombard's paradox".

[johnnymnemonic2]

Didn't finish that sentence, did I? Anywho, if you do a search for those, you should get the idea. Let me know if you don't.

[lorentzus]

The Lombard's paradox is not about flexibility problems! It describes the "paradox" that antagonists contract at the same time expecially in gait. In squat all the muscles in the lower extremeties contract to stabilize the ancle, knee, pelvis and back. That's not the same as to say that short hamstrings is a problem in squats, and that yot flexibility depends on your hamstrings.

[johnnymnemonic2]

You didn't do the search, did you...

[lorentzus]

You can't stretch the hamstrings when the knee is flexed/bent, and therefore short hamstrings will have little impact on your squatting technique. To have a problem with short hamstrings, you have to do an excercise that fully stretch the hamstrings, squats don't do that because the knee is flexed! Why do you think that the knee is fully extended when you stretch the hamstrings? Do you really think that you can stretch the hamstrings with a flexed knee???

[lorentzus]

How can flexibility problems in the squat possibly be a hamstrings-issue? That ain't true! The more you flex you'r knee, the more you passively shorten your hamstrings. That means that short hamstrings won't be a problem at all in this excercise!

[johnnymnemonic2]

Oh gawd... You understand that the hamstrings are not just a knee flexor, right? You know they are leg/hip extensors, right? You understand that tight hamstrings lead to posterior pelvic tilt, right? You understand that by sitting back into your squat, you are going to increase the stretch reflex of the hamstrings and hip extensors, right?

[tenken417]

I agree. Johnny really knows his stuff. Stretching my hamstrings has helped me a lot and coincides with the research I have been doing.

[johnnymnemonic2]

Thanks tenken. I appreciate that.

[lorentzus]

When you stretch there are other neurologic mechanism than just a "legthening" of your hamstrings. These mechanism has an effect on the surrounding msucles and structures as well as the particular muscle you focuse on.

[carnasaur]

very true...if you exhibit PPT in the hole, just stretch your hamstrings for a few minutes and then try squatting again, chances are it'll be noticably better. I've seen this happen before...

[lorentzus]

When the knee is passively flexed (exentric quadriceps) or actively extended(consentric quadriceps), the hamstrings will have little function as a hip extensor. And it will certainly NOT be stretched when the knee is FLEXED! This is basic anatomy folks!don't act like you know things when you don't have any eduacation.

[lorentzus]

When the knee is passively flexed (exentric quadriceps) or actively extended(consentric quadriceps), the hamstrings will have little function as a hip extensor. And it will certainly NOT be stretched when the knee is FLEXED! This is basic anatomy folks!don't act like you know things when you don't have any eduacation.

[johnnymnemonic2]

Lorentzus,

You're just not getting it. I'll try to have a future Squat Rx that addresses this for you and others.

[tenken417]

thank you so much. i've been working on those hamstrings for my heel problems.

[johnnymnemonic2]

Thanks Tenken. Keep in touch.

[duba3988]

I second the comment by sniz, great video as usual. :)

[johnnymnemonic2]

Thank you!

I think some shifting of the weight is common. Just as long as it doesn't get away from you.

[snizshizzle]

One of the best Rx yet. - When I squat, I sometimes grip the deck with my toes as if I were doing a pistol. I usually only do this in the last couple reps of a heavy set. The weight tends to shift a little on the balls of my feet without my heel coming off, is this still bad?