Respect both but have devotion for the one that our heart chooses! Please do not let our practice be hijacked by our attachment to one and hatred for another. i am sure the genuine karmapa will be happy to know that as a buddhist we are practicing and applying what the Buddha has taught and that is wisdom & compassion. There is no need to follow the herd instint, follow our hearts! Karmaspa is a Buddha, He has the capability of recognizing himself, He does not need to be recognized by anyone!
hahaha...this shows anybody can masquerade as a holy man. Don`t trust these people, just follow the authentic teachings of Buddha, not some teenagers who haven`t even understood real life outside the monastery. The two karmapas made Karma Kyagu tradition a living joke. Money is the new mantra there with millions tied up. I rather listen to a real hermit who has actually let go off material obsession than some pimply teenager. Just my thoughst on the whole thing.
@ zeznamaple yes you are right buddy HH The Dalai Lama is a politician, According to my acknowledgment there are two kind of politicians one who dedicate himself for benefit of others like Mahatma Gandhi,Nelson Mandela the great politician HH The Dalai Lama is also one of them and another politician who dedicate everything for benefit of only himself like shamarpagla I mean shamarpa la shame on this greedy man who consider himself as a Buddhist master chha!!!!!!!
Que l'on arrête s'il vous plait cette polémique sur les deux karmapa : Oui il y en a deux.... et alors. Ils ne seront pas trop de deux, lorsque l'on voit à quelle allure le monde se dégénère. Nous, en tant que simples pratiquants, nous n'avons qu'à pratiquer. C'est tout. Il est tellement plus facile de juger, critiquer ce monde. Surveillons notre être au quotidien et enfin, ce différend n'en serait pas un pour beaucoup. Que chacun aille vers celui qui résonne le plus dans son coeur.
I've just gotten an insight into the 2nd noble truth. he problem is not so much desire, but it's being attached to what one desires that brings dhukkah, because being attached to the impermanent brings dukkha once that what one has desired passed away. To put it another waywhen the party's over those in dukkha cling to the festivities not wanting them to end, so when they do dhukkah arises. So, dont cling to what doesnt last-this is the 3rd noble truth-.
@Xialung: let's do a quick buddhist math. To be Karmapa means that he achieved the unlimited state of happiness of the consciousness. This way he is "attached" in love to everything even to his hair. Hm?
@lightconstruct: Hey Xialung! Sup dear buddy? :) You like this word, attached very much. When you are in the state of enlightment (it is said, i don't have that realization) you experience the highest joy + unlimitied space and you see everything as the manifestation of mind.
So let's do the "math" :). You are in the ultimate space and joy state, this won't change ever and everything has the very same nature as you. I think this understanding makes you love everything. Naturally. No clinging.
@Xialung All the great retreat masters, yogi and yogini, have long hair. If you're bothering about this, you are mentally trapped in a dualistic thinking. Hair, no hair - how does any of this matter in the end? And it's mighty presumptuous of you to assume that you know whether another is doing anything as a result of attachment. I do not assume you have an aversion to hair, as that would be equally silly. Perhaps you should be more focused on advancing your own growth, than micromanaging others
What if I didn't want anything, but I still suffered?
The source of suffering is not the absence of things, the source of suffering is the apparation of thought. The apparation of thought is independent of our physical reality.
If someone beats you up- do you say it was your fault and because of actions that you did it made the other person beat you up? It is not the fault of the victim that they were beaten up- it is the fault of the criminal (i.e.God) who did it.
I am from sikkim,india..where the main seat of his holiness the 16th gyalwa karmapa is located..wat i want to say is....why are the real monks of the rumtek monastery not allowed to go there..why are the people of situ and gyaltsab rinpoche doing this....only gyaltsab can come to rumtek..but he has been very unpopular among common sikkimese..he stole timbers,,sold late karmapa's belongings.....shamar rinpoche's choice is the true karmapa..LONG LIVE KARMAPA AND SHAMARPA
I find it hard to understand how these monks, having grown up in very protected environments, especially of the generation since the occupation of Tibet, know anything about suffering. They seem to me largely like the Buddhist gods, sitting on their clouds, impervious to reality. To be a great spiritual teacher you have to understand suffering to its very core: people like this haven't got a bloody clue (is my estimation). The monastic tradition has got it very wrong.
Anyone who lives in India sees suffering writ large on the streets every day. Anyone who deals constantly with the problems and neuroses of their students understands a wide range of human issues. Not to mention anyone who overcomes their ego in meditation..
The Jewel Ornament of Liberation says that just as a hair is not felt in the hand but is strongly felt in the eye, the wise feel the subtle suffering of impermanence that pervades conditioned existence.
And I'm sure that when you lived in Tibet, with all the subzero winters, doing all the growing and harvesting, and making every basic thing of life for your self, you were able to say, "Whew, this is so easy! I can't believe what little suffering there is here, in one of the coldest, highest, roughest parts of the world!"
@zootsoot2006 I understand your sentiments but I think you have some confusion between the colloquial English definition of the word "Suffering" and the English word "Suffering" used loosely to translate the Pali / Sanskrit word (dukkha) that, in fact, has no real equivalent in the English Language. Actually, in the texts, there are explanations of 3 different types of suffering. The first Noble Truth as taught by the Buddha refers to the fact that all sentient beings experience "Dukkha".
I'm not sure what you're for and against here.. all schools of Buddhism AFAIK believe in rebirth, not just Tibetan. I've heard the difference between rebirth and reincarnation, and the non-existence of a 'soul' explained by Karmapa Thaye Dorje's students, maybe by himself too; don't recall..
I was a Tibetan Buddhist for over 10 years and these guys are so full of it. They have totally lost their way. The Buddha would laugh if he saw what this has turned into. Especially the idea that "Souls" reincarnate. There are wonderful aspects of Tibetan Buddhis unfortunately these have been compromised by guys like this posing as awakened beings which unfortunately 1) they are not and 2) they have become the norm simply because of lineage which to me translates as dogma and territory
Anyway, the real Karmapa would never exclude anyone from enlightment because he/she has been meditating on the fake one! Therefore, no matter wich one is THE one, the other is spreading dharma and if he does it well and aware of his responsability it will be very beneficial for all beings anyway.
The only concrete way to end this discussion would be if Situ Rimpoche finally agree to give the "prediction" letter to an independent gaphologic analysis. Although many leaders worlwide asked him to do it, why does Situ Rimpoche not allow an analysis of this letter (but please, not a chinese graphologist!). Why the dharma brothers and sisters that believe Urgyen Trinley is the true reincarnation of the 16. Karmapa do not demand an analysis and request Tai Situ to end this discussion?
At last! they decided to come back with cuter and handsome faces:-)
Thats why I chose Pure Land School besides Amitabha Buddha's promises of Pure Land, i dont think I have the time or enuf black hair to worry abt who came from where and what with disputable history and end up more tangled than my mother's hair. But if there are those who dont mind..go ahead...its cool.
What a strange thing to say. Why would you think that H.H. Shamar Rinpoche had changed his mind since March 2007 (when, I can assure you, he was very clear who is who)? And which government are you putting your faith in -- the Dalai Lama's administration (what else can they do but agree with his public position) or the "Religion is poison" Chinese communists?
Hey Paul Lang, one thing I don't understand. In part 1 you commented that he (presumably Thaye Dorje) "is the real Karmapa", and here and in part 3 you say the opposite. I mean it's quite up to you, I'm just curious...
Although a student of the Karma Kagyu lineage. I find it ironic that some Buddhist find it necessary to impart their opinions on others. This is not Buddhism.
There is no truth in whether Thaye Dorje or Ugyen Trinley is the 17th Karmapa. There is only truth in their teachings - the Dharma. This dispte is only a distraction as both sides generate attachment towards each candidate. Enough about who is who. More time should be spent in practice.
The original Urgyen Trinley Dorje was younger than Thaye Dorje. But as a kid, he wasn't very smart and acted out during the ritual ceremonies. Then he went on retreat for some months, and grew a couple feet and aged by 10 years. Its absurd, Urgyen Trinlay was originally installed by the Chinese government. Dalai Lama supports him, as a way to keep a connection to those in Tibet and have that leverage with the Chinese governmeent (and Shamarpa Rinpoche does to this extent now as well).
hey jigme8! you seemed to be quite attached to your teacher! what is your opinion of ego and egolessness? basically every teacher is saying same things. to talk in your language: same shit, different flavor!
my suggestion: GO ON RETREAT AND GET YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE BEFORE OPENING MOUTH ALREADY MISTAKE.
who eve is readin ma this comment i would suggest u to watch other karmapa urgen thinley.. thn i don have to say anythin who is real or whos fake.. u don even know dharma dude.. fuck u and fuck ur other teachers..
I agree.. behind the txtspk (dude, you make me feel old ;-) and disrespect it's a good idea jigme8 has - people should of course check out both candidates before making strong opinions. Thanks for your comment.
Urgen Trinley is born before 16th Gyalwa Karmapa died!
But however, if You are able to see him as Your Teacher go Your way to study and meditate! The only one to confirm a Gyalwa Karmapa is Sharma Rinpoche and not the Dalay Lama, who never had the right to confirm Urgen Trinley,
D.L. is a Gelugpa and should not intervene in Karma Kaguy Manners at all.
It is necessary to practise in a serious way not to get attched by political
confusion.
Anyhow I wish You joy and espacially whisdom at least!
Supposedly he is older. But that is yet another thing that the Urgyen Trinley camp has vociferously refused to do (along with refusing to have the "prediction letter" tested) is to have Urgyen Trinley's age medically established.
'Has there really been anything gained, stirring up passions for and against?'
In the ultimate analysis both Urgyen Tinlay Dorje and Thaye Dorje are perfectly pure Buddhas, therefore there is not the slightest difference between the two!!
jigme8; May I please request that you would not use few choice of words while you are on this page. Yes I am fully aware of this moment I have long long way to go and to study.
Really inspiring. Long life for Karmapa!!! Karmapa Chenno!!!
deemaxx108 3 months ago
Respect both but have devotion for the one that our heart chooses! Please do not let our practice be hijacked by our attachment to one and hatred for another. i am sure the genuine karmapa will be happy to know that as a buddhist we are practicing and applying what the Buddha has taught and that is wisdom & compassion. There is no need to follow the herd instint, follow our hearts! Karmaspa is a Buddha, He has the capability of recognizing himself, He does not need to be recognized by anyone!
tsultrimsangmo 4 months ago
He is amazing and look more thin than before.^^
Ilovekungfumusic 4 months ago
hahaha...this shows anybody can masquerade as a holy man. Don`t trust these people, just follow the authentic teachings of Buddha, not some teenagers who haven`t even understood real life outside the monastery. The two karmapas made Karma Kyagu tradition a living joke. Money is the new mantra there with millions tied up. I rather listen to a real hermit who has actually let go off material obsession than some pimply teenager. Just my thoughst on the whole thing.
russianblueOrDeath 5 months ago
@ zeznamaple yes you are right buddy HH The Dalai Lama is a politician, According to my acknowledgment there are two kind of politicians one who dedicate himself for benefit of others like Mahatma Gandhi,Nelson Mandela the great politician HH The Dalai Lama is also one of them and another politician who dedicate everything for benefit of only himself like shamarpagla I mean shamarpa la shame on this greedy man who consider himself as a Buddhist master chha!!!!!!!
tseringjam 5 months ago
Boys and girls, thanks for commenting. Please note that comments using abusive language will not be approved.
Gandalf1976 8 months ago
wow..handsome man
rangzenla 1 year ago
Are people seriously discussing this man's hair? He's trying to teach Buddhism and people are arguing about his hair? That's got to be a joke, right?
Naturyl 1 year ago
Que l'on arrête s'il vous plait cette polémique sur les deux karmapa : Oui il y en a deux.... et alors. Ils ne seront pas trop de deux, lorsque l'on voit à quelle allure le monde se dégénère. Nous, en tant que simples pratiquants, nous n'avons qu'à pratiquer. C'est tout. Il est tellement plus facile de juger, critiquer ce monde. Surveillons notre être au quotidien et enfin, ce différend n'en serait pas un pour beaucoup. Que chacun aille vers celui qui résonne le plus dans son coeur.
Cordyane 1 year ago
I've just gotten an insight into the 2nd noble truth. he problem is not so much desire, but it's being attached to what one desires that brings dhukkah, because being attached to the impermanent brings dukkha once that what one has desired passed away. To put it another waywhen the party's over those in dukkha cling to the festivities not wanting them to end, so when they do dhukkah arises. So, dont cling to what doesnt last-this is the 3rd noble truth-.
dstewart28 1 year ago
May my root guru Karmapa Thaye Dojie live long and good health to benefit all sentient beings. KARMAPA KHYENNO !!!
Ditayan 1 year ago
This KARMAPA is REAL.this other is false,created by the chinese government and political Dalai Lama.
zelaznamalpa 2 years ago
Karmapa Chenno
ikhamo 2 years ago
So, this Karmapa has hair. He is attached to the love of his hair?
Xialung 2 years ago
Difficult to tell the level of attachment of another's mind, isn't it?
Gandalf1976 2 years ago 2
Oh! You have posted my comment. Thank you! The other uploaders have deleted them! No freedom of speech!
Xialung 2 years ago
the 16th Karmapa also had hair :) would you ask same question about the 16th Karmapa ? Or would you feel a bit silly ....
KTY111111 2 years ago
@Xialung: let's do a quick buddhist math. To be Karmapa means that he achieved the unlimited state of happiness of the consciousness. This way he is "attached" in love to everything even to his hair. Hm?
lightconstruct 1 year ago
@lightconstruct: Hey Xialung! Sup dear buddy? :) You like this word, attached very much. When you are in the state of enlightment (it is said, i don't have that realization) you experience the highest joy + unlimitied space and you see everything as the manifestation of mind.
So let's do the "math" :). You are in the ultimate space and joy state, this won't change ever and everything has the very same nature as you. I think this understanding makes you love everything. Naturally. No clinging.
lightconstruct 1 year ago
@Xialung All the great retreat masters, yogi and yogini, have long hair. If you're bothering about this, you are mentally trapped in a dualistic thinking. Hair, no hair - how does any of this matter in the end? And it's mighty presumptuous of you to assume that you know whether another is doing anything as a result of attachment. I do not assume you have an aversion to hair, as that would be equally silly. Perhaps you should be more focused on advancing your own growth, than micromanaging others
Nu5by5 1 year ago
@Xialung the 16th Karmapa also had hair :) would you ask same question about Him> Or the whole world just accepted him with hair???? ;)
Cafe1626 1 year ago
you interviewer seem to try to be wrighter as Himself Karmapa. Warior.
THELHASA 2 years ago
What if I didn't want anything, but I still suffered?
The source of suffering is not the absence of things, the source of suffering is the apparation of thought. The apparation of thought is independent of our physical reality.
If someone beats you up- do you say it was your fault and because of actions that you did it made the other person beat you up? It is not the fault of the victim that they were beaten up- it is the fault of the criminal (i.e.God) who did it.
Carex09 2 years ago
sweet one!
jeanjadespring 2 years ago
17 reincarnations, wow!!!
michaeldeng1981 2 years ago
Hehe. It's a world record :-)
Karmapa Chenno!
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
I am from sikkim,india..where the main seat of his holiness the 16th gyalwa karmapa is located..wat i want to say is....why are the real monks of the rumtek monastery not allowed to go there..why are the people of situ and gyaltsab rinpoche doing this....only gyaltsab can come to rumtek..but he has been very unpopular among common sikkimese..he stole timbers,,sold late karmapa's belongings.....shamar rinpoche's choice is the true karmapa..LONG LIVE KARMAPA AND SHAMARPA
juvefury 3 years ago 2
He's beautiful!!!!! Just great!
shreeyatyagi 3 years ago 7
I find it hard to understand how these monks, having grown up in very protected environments, especially of the generation since the occupation of Tibet, know anything about suffering. They seem to me largely like the Buddhist gods, sitting on their clouds, impervious to reality. To be a great spiritual teacher you have to understand suffering to its very core: people like this haven't got a bloody clue (is my estimation). The monastic tradition has got it very wrong.
zootsoot2006 3 years ago
Anyone who lives in India sees suffering writ large on the streets every day. Anyone who deals constantly with the problems and neuroses of their students understands a wide range of human issues. Not to mention anyone who overcomes their ego in meditation..
The Jewel Ornament of Liberation says that just as a hair is not felt in the hand but is strongly felt in the eye, the wise feel the subtle suffering of impermanence that pervades conditioned existence.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago 3
@Gandalf1976
hey sorry, but
i accidently voted your comment down.
i wish i could take it back but it won't let me
omeyegod9 1 year ago
Do you think that suffering is something that is "out there?"
Wake up!
bleupeony2 2 years ago
And I'm sure that when you lived in Tibet, with all the subzero winters, doing all the growing and harvesting, and making every basic thing of life for your self, you were able to say, "Whew, this is so easy! I can't believe what little suffering there is here, in one of the coldest, highest, roughest parts of the world!"
theorganichispanic 2 years ago
@zootsoot2006
I learned a new chord today from someone who just started playing guitar. Everyone suffers, so everyone can understand.
omeyegod9 1 year ago
@zootsoot2006 I understand your sentiments but I think you have some confusion between the colloquial English definition of the word "Suffering" and the English word "Suffering" used loosely to translate the Pali / Sanskrit word (dukkha) that, in fact, has no real equivalent in the English Language. Actually, in the texts, there are explanations of 3 different types of suffering. The first Noble Truth as taught by the Buddha refers to the fact that all sentient beings experience "Dukkha".
derekhanger 4 months ago
I'm not sure what you're for and against here.. all schools of Buddhism AFAIK believe in rebirth, not just Tibetan. I've heard the difference between rebirth and reincarnation, and the non-existence of a 'soul' explained by Karmapa Thaye Dorje's students, maybe by himself too; don't recall..
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
I was a Tibetan Buddhist for over 10 years and these guys are so full of it. They have totally lost their way. The Buddha would laugh if he saw what this has turned into. Especially the idea that "Souls" reincarnate. There are wonderful aspects of Tibetan Buddhis unfortunately these have been compromised by guys like this posing as awakened beings which unfortunately 1) they are not and 2) they have become the norm simply because of lineage which to me translates as dogma and territory
hulagirl536 3 years ago
Are you saying you don't think that the Buddha believed in reincarnation?
Or are you talking about the idea of SPECIFIC souls reincarnating? "George dies and comes back as Mary"
CatCommunication 3 years ago
where he comes from?
???
violapeipei 3 years ago
Tibet.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
Anyway, the real Karmapa would never exclude anyone from enlightment because he/she has been meditating on the fake one! Therefore, no matter wich one is THE one, the other is spreading dharma and if he does it well and aware of his responsability it will be very beneficial for all beings anyway.
plumpaquatsch123 3 years ago
The only concrete way to end this discussion would be if Situ Rimpoche finally agree to give the "prediction" letter to an independent gaphologic analysis. Although many leaders worlwide asked him to do it, why does Situ Rimpoche not allow an analysis of this letter (but please, not a chinese graphologist!). Why the dharma brothers and sisters that believe Urgyen Trinley is the true reincarnation of the 16. Karmapa do not demand an analysis and request Tai Situ to end this discussion?
plumpaquatsch123 3 years ago
Hey i got a comment:
At last! they decided to come back with cuter and handsome faces:-)
Thats why I chose Pure Land School besides Amitabha Buddha's promises of Pure Land, i dont think I have the time or enuf black hair to worry abt who came from where and what with disputable history and end up more tangled than my mother's hair. But if there are those who dont mind..go ahead...its cool.
plwk 3 years ago
H.H 17th Karmapa, Gyalwa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the true karmapa.
H.H 14th Dalai Lama knows this, the Shamarpa knows it, and so does the Government of the Motherland.
daveyork0 4 years ago
What a strange thing to say. Why would you think that H.H. Shamar Rinpoche had changed his mind since March 2007 (when, I can assure you, he was very clear who is who)? And which government are you putting your faith in -- the Dalai Lama's administration (what else can they do but agree with his public position) or the "Religion is poison" Chinese communists?
Gandalf1976 4 years ago
H.H 17th Karmapa, Gyalwa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the true karmapa. Paul Lang
tat2sky 4 years ago
Hey Paul Lang, one thing I don't understand. In part 1 you commented that he (presumably Thaye Dorje) "is the real Karmapa", and here and in part 3 you say the opposite. I mean it's quite up to you, I'm just curious...
Gandalf1976 4 years ago
Although a student of the Karma Kagyu lineage. I find it ironic that some Buddhist find it necessary to impart their opinions on others. This is not Buddhism.
There is no truth in whether Thaye Dorje or Ugyen Trinley is the 17th Karmapa. There is only truth in their teachings - the Dharma. This dispte is only a distraction as both sides generate attachment towards each candidate. Enough about who is who. More time should be spent in practice.
with metta. :)
PilsungITF 4 years ago 8
@PilsungITF Good post...wherever the Dharma is there is the Buddha...
ElPapasanga 1 year ago
@PilsungITF I find your comment lacking The Political info , teaching of Buddha! Don't lie to your people.
eyms2 4 days ago
What are you basing this on? Belief? Opinion? third party?
The Buddha said you should not take my teachings as face value but take them and put them to the test, like a gold smith would test gold.
PilsungITF 4 years ago 2
The original Urgyen Trinley Dorje was younger than Thaye Dorje. But as a kid, he wasn't very smart and acted out during the ritual ceremonies. Then he went on retreat for some months, and grew a couple feet and aged by 10 years. Its absurd, Urgyen Trinlay was originally installed by the Chinese government. Dalai Lama supports him, as a way to keep a connection to those in Tibet and have that leverage with the Chinese governmeent (and Shamarpa Rinpoche does to this extent now as well).
gautamsingh 4 years ago
H.H 17th Karmapa, Gyalwa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the true karmapa.
Karmadharmabum 4 years ago
I think every student has to make their own decision, which will be influenced by their teachers. I would not make such a sweeping statement.
spinalcrackerbox 4 years ago
I think it is good to see both of 17th karmapa talking anyway. Very interesting.
bhaaluu 5 years ago
hey jigme8! you seemed to be quite attached to your teacher! what is your opinion of ego and egolessness? basically every teacher is saying same things. to talk in your language: same shit, different flavor!
my suggestion: GO ON RETREAT AND GET YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE BEFORE OPENING MOUTH ALREADY MISTAKE.
dohacello 5 years ago
who eve is readin ma this comment i would suggest u to watch other karmapa urgen thinley.. thn i don have to say anythin who is real or whos fake.. u don even know dharma dude.. fuck u and fuck ur other teachers..
jigme8 5 years ago
I agree.. behind the txtspk (dude, you make me feel old ;-) and disrespect it's a good idea jigme8 has - people should of course check out both candidates before making strong opinions. Thanks for your comment.
Gandalf1976 5 years ago
Urgen Trinley is born before 16th Gyalwa Karmapa died!
But however, if You are able to see him as Your Teacher go Your way to study and meditate! The only one to confirm a Gyalwa Karmapa is Sharma Rinpoche and not the Dalay Lama, who never had the right to confirm Urgen Trinley,
D.L. is a Gelugpa and should not intervene in Karma Kaguy Manners at all.
It is necessary to practise in a serious way not to get attched by political
confusion.
Anyhow I wish You joy and espacially whisdom at least!
tenzinggyurme 4 years ago
you seem to be confused, Thaye Dorje is older than Urgyen trinley Dorje :)
robertplee 4 years ago
Supposedly he is older. But that is yet another thing that the Urgyen Trinley camp has vociferously refused to do (along with refusing to have the "prediction letter" tested) is to have Urgyen Trinley's age medically established.
changchubdorje 4 years ago
'Has there really been anything gained, stirring up passions for and against?'
In the ultimate analysis both Urgyen Tinlay Dorje and Thaye Dorje are perfectly pure Buddhas, therefore there is not the slightest difference between the two!!
robertplee 4 years ago
jigme8; May I please request that you would not use few choice of words while you are on this page. Yes I am fully aware of this moment I have long long way to go and to study.
myASIMO 4 years ago