And you shouldn't lump mysticism in with horrible dogmas like xtianity and islam; two dogmas that have more in common with the state and 'politics' than other forms of mysticism that, for all you know, do indeed bring about favorable results. If you want to be taken seriously outside the atheist community, you could at least go beyond John Galt and imagine the psycho therapuetic effects of imagery and cathartic effects of meditation, yoga, tai chi, or any form of art really. Reason is a tool.
To an Objectivist, anything outside Objectivism is "mystical" by definition. There's no reasoning with Objectivism about this. The Objectivists have it all on faith, from the spoken & written words of the prophet Ayn Rand. Objectivism is the philosophy of Ayn Rand, by definition.
Reason gets a lot of lip service by Objectivism and even a modest amount of application, within the scope of Objectivism, but it mostly comes down to the mystical personal mindset a great fiction author in Ayn Rand.
The doctrine that the ultimate elements or principles of knowledge or belief are gained by an act or process akin to feeling or faith.
If you are not using reason as the means to determine the validity of an entity then you are using some kind of mystic force" (the process of inducing a feeling or simply just accepting something as fact) .
I agree except that reason operates on statements, not an "entity" directly. We can understand things about entities through analysis of statements with reason, but reason isn't some kind of mystical path to truth. Reason is a tool or a process of analysis of statements.
I'll repeat what I said above: the biggest irony about Objectivism is the misapplication of reason. Objectivism uses reason as an excuse for mysticism through misapplication and fallacies. Objectivism is object worship.
Haha. It's quite clear you don't understand the definition of Reason. Reason identifies and integrates the material (the objects) that are provided by your senses (sight, smell, taste, feel, and hear).
If you think that reason operates on statements (which is a very blunt illustration of how you fail miserably to apply logic); where, or by what means does one use to create a statement?
1. Reason is a rationalization, an explanation. Your idea of reason seems to ignore abstractions. Can't reason also be used for analysis of concepts like capitalism, even though one cannot see, smell, taste, feel or hear something that is capitalistic?
2. Statements are composed of words.
3. Usually by personal attacks, such as laughing at or saying "you fail miserably to apply logic" without demonstrating the assertion with reason. Ayn Rand did this all the time, applying various fallacies.
"Faith caused the dark ages". You don't see how it might of been a lack of faith in reason,the ability to imagine and think for oneself? Reason has an element of faith, we take a lot of what we think we know on faith.
Simply because reason doesn't always survive the test of time. We only know what we are currently able to perceive. Pointedly, in my comment I was referring to the protaganists of the Dark ages, and pointing out their lack of faith in themselves to be able to reason against the fear they were confronted with. I use faith in dealing with cops, in that I believe that if I act in a certain way, I can usurp their authority without them knowing. It usually works, but I can't say it always does. Faith
Reason stands the test of time. It varies to the degree with which individuals or groups find it of interest or utility value. One doesn't need a ton of reason to plant & harvest crops, for example. I should know, I've lived my entire life as a farmer. Military strategy, science, technology, on the other hand, takes a ton of reason to get it right. Reason has certain uses.
Faith helped cause the dark ages. But the dark ages were only dark in the sense of lack of art, science & technology.
And you shouldn't lump mysticism in with horrible dogmas like xtianity and islam; two dogmas that have more in common with the state and 'politics' than other forms of mysticism that, for all you know, do indeed bring about favorable results. If you want to be taken seriously outside the atheist community, you could at least go beyond John Galt and imagine the psycho therapuetic effects of imagery and cathartic effects of meditation, yoga, tai chi, or any form of art really. Reason is a tool.
fungku777 2 years ago
To an Objectivist, anything outside Objectivism is "mystical" by definition. There's no reasoning with Objectivism about this. The Objectivists have it all on faith, from the spoken & written words of the prophet Ayn Rand. Objectivism is the philosophy of Ayn Rand, by definition.
Reason gets a lot of lip service by Objectivism and even a modest amount of application, within the scope of Objectivism, but it mostly comes down to the mystical personal mindset a great fiction author in Ayn Rand.
SBRslacker00 2 years ago
Mysticism by definition: Mysticism
(n.)
The doctrine that the ultimate elements or principles of knowledge or belief are gained by an act or process akin to feeling or faith.
If you are not using reason as the means to determine the validity of an entity then you are using some kind of mystic force" (the process of inducing a feeling or simply just accepting something as fact) .
ProximaMinor 2 years ago
I agree except that reason operates on statements, not an "entity" directly. We can understand things about entities through analysis of statements with reason, but reason isn't some kind of mystical path to truth. Reason is a tool or a process of analysis of statements.
I'll repeat what I said above: the biggest irony about Objectivism is the misapplication of reason. Objectivism uses reason as an excuse for mysticism through misapplication and fallacies. Objectivism is object worship.
SBRslacker00 2 years ago
Haha. It's quite clear you don't understand the definition of Reason. Reason identifies and integrates the material (the objects) that are provided by your senses (sight, smell, taste, feel, and hear).
If you think that reason operates on statements (which is a very blunt illustration of how you fail miserably to apply logic); where, or by what means does one use to create a statement?
And how does an objectivst misapply reason?
ProximaMinor 2 years ago
1. Reason is a rationalization, an explanation. Your idea of reason seems to ignore abstractions. Can't reason also be used for analysis of concepts like capitalism, even though one cannot see, smell, taste, feel or hear something that is capitalistic?
2. Statements are composed of words.
3. Usually by personal attacks, such as laughing at or saying "you fail miserably to apply logic" without demonstrating the assertion with reason. Ayn Rand did this all the time, applying various fallacies.
SBRslacker00 2 years ago
"Faith caused the dark ages". You don't see how it might of been a lack of faith in reason,the ability to imagine and think for oneself? Reason has an element of faith, we take a lot of what we think we know on faith.
fungku777 2 years ago
If you *think* reason requires faith, how did you come to this conclusion? Using what *means* were you able to figure this out?
ProximaMinor 2 years ago
Simply because reason doesn't always survive the test of time. We only know what we are currently able to perceive. Pointedly, in my comment I was referring to the protaganists of the Dark ages, and pointing out their lack of faith in themselves to be able to reason against the fear they were confronted with. I use faith in dealing with cops, in that I believe that if I act in a certain way, I can usurp their authority without them knowing. It usually works, but I can't say it always does. Faith
fungku777 2 years ago
Reason stands the test of time. It varies to the degree with which individuals or groups find it of interest or utility value. One doesn't need a ton of reason to plant & harvest crops, for example. I should know, I've lived my entire life as a farmer. Military strategy, science, technology, on the other hand, takes a ton of reason to get it right. Reason has certain uses.
Faith helped cause the dark ages. But the dark ages were only dark in the sense of lack of art, science & technology.
SBRslacker00 2 years ago
I give you five of my finest stars
Luke12000 2 years ago
Yes.
Fav'd and *****
RobertPFreeman 2 years ago