i had many MANY doubts about islam . raised as one i am constantly learning . la-mowaseon ask ANY SINGLE ARABIC PERSON ANYONE he ll tell you that it means expanding. not even doubting the word for a second
@Thejadjadjad I ALREADY "asked" Yusuf Ali and Shakir, by reading their translations:
YUSUFALI: "With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace."
SHAKIR: "And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample."
Now YOU tell me why not ONE Muslim scholar in 1400 YEARS (NOT ONE!!!!) said the Universe was expanding if the Qur'an SAID "expanding"? You know ancient Arabic better than ALL those scholars?
@philhellenes i am willing to denounce my belief if you grab a camera ask an arab ( egyptian,syrian,lebanese,from the gulf ) what does the word YATAWASAOUN mean. vastness does mean the "expansion" but a more "philosophical" shaky meaning if you ask me. ample also refers to a "great number" both of these meaning are very shocking. the only meaning i myself know of yatawsaoun is expansion. i am no extremist. i prefered agnosticsm. my faith is still shaky but this point is true.
@Thejadjadjad Yet, you haven't answered my question: Why didn't ONE Muslim scholar in 1400 YEARS say (or even SUGGEST) that the Universe was (even MIGHT be) expanding if the Qur'an SAID "expanding"?
Think. How many Muslims studied the Qur'an in fine detail, devoted their entire LIVES to finding meaning in the Qur'an in those 1400 YEARS? Millions? Yet, you understand the context of the ancient Arabic language that they spoke better than ALL of them? That IS, in effect, exactly what you're saying.
@philhellenes there might be copies,translations many factors might blurr the intrepertation. but see thats why the quran is and basicly understand in only one language .Muslims believe that god choose arabic since it was the best language when it comes to expressing ones feeling and description.NEVERTHELESS our challenege is still on. i am no scholar i ve research the surah . read it once and i ve seen this video. it is definetly expanding.
muslims do not claim they knew about the expansion all along...they say it was there in quran but since it can be interpreted in different ways we didn't realize it until just recently, (today we all know about it but when first discovered it was pretty mind blowing, so we can't blame them for that) and technically the verse can indeed be translated into "I'm constantly expanding it", I'm an atheist myself but this make you think, doesn't it?!
@kfkfkf2000 "we didn't realize it until just recently..."?
"We"? Check out Maurice Bucaille, the FIRST to make the claim. Made MILLIONS by selling a book but NEVER converted to Islam. When a man who was only just learning Arabic tells Muslims how to "interpret" the language it SCREAMS bullshit.
The verse is referring to the SKY, AND the verse is in the PAST tense. Nothing implies it's talking about space or that the "expanse" is still expanding. Past tense clearly implies the opposite.
@philhellenes sorry dude, my bad about the translation, I did some research about the word, I already knew a little Arabic (studying it is mandatory in my country and believe me it's hard as fuck, at least compared to learning English), and first it seemed to me that the word it's not even a verb, but an adjective, I wasn't sure...apparently it is an adjective meaning powerful and mighty, at least that's how some of the most respected islamic scholars that I know have translated it
"AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
This is the translation of Muhammad Asad, who provided commentary stating that this foretells an expanding universe. Of course, he published this in 1980, so I guess Hubble scooped him.
Also, the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, not "steadily".
@truth101 You need to learn English. The only time the Qur'an says expansion is decades after the big bang. That's what we call reverse engineering. Do you have a book before 1922 that says the universe was expanding, no. Did you correct Einstein when he thought the universe didn't move, no. I'm sure in a couple of decades Muslim will be saying the Qu'ran proves such things as dark energy or Evolution. Islam says life is creator from water and evolution says life began in water, ahh there we go.
@Moh5Itachi1 What is i bring to you a 100 year old man from China, Africa, Saudi, Pakistan etc. and ask them to recite these verses that they learnt probably when they were 8 years old. No one can change the Qur'an not even Prophets of God.
@truth101 ''What is i bring to you a 100 year old man from China, Africa, Saudi, Pakistan etc. and ask them to recite these verses that they learnt probably when they were 8 years old. No one can change the Qur'an not even Prophets of God.''
HUH? That had absolutely nothing to do with what i said.
So, lets leave these discussions aside, and fix the world we live in, reduce hunger, wars, or even get rid of them, further science and knowledge, cure more diseases. etc.
I am an engineer, a scientist, I read, I think, I philosophize, I believe there is no limit to the human mind, achievement, or endeavor.
& before I sleep, I pray on the rug, I read the Quraan, and I ask Allah to help me be better tomorrow.
I wake up, I pray, then I go to work, to make this world better in my own little way
@grendizerzero We cannot leave these discussions aside. Religions facilitate wars by making the enemy an enemy of God. Such conflicts are almost impossible to end for they are, in effect, proclaimed by God (and God can never say, "I changed my mind").
You are a scientist who believes the Qur'an is the perfect word of a god, that Allah will burn my skin off for "rejecting His signs"? Doesn't SOUND very scientific. Actually, it sounds insane.
@philhellenes isn't burning a form of punishment? as a scientist, if you get an F in a course, and possibly not graduate with a degree that could have landed you a good job and made live a happy and fruitful life? isn't that "punishment" in way for not studying properly? why is this punishment accepted and some supreme being saying I will burn you in hell if you do not believe? (focus, I am saying believe, getting to other things in a minute)
@grendizerzero You are confusing a lack of reward with punishment. If I can't see these "signs" (because there are far more plausible, rational and evidenced explanations) that is my "fault"? That deserves punishment is fire for ETERNITY? Your sense of justice has been SEVERELY perverted by your religion. All the good things none-Muslims have done, and you ask WHY they should NOT be burned for eternity?
I'm sure you are completely sane, but when you try to justify Hell you sound utterly mad.
it is obvious that as far as language goes, you are not very advanced, lack of reward, over a long period of time, can be construed as punishment. In any case, I was trying to use an analogy, I did not mention justice anywhere, all I was saying is as with any system, if you follow the rules, you will be rewarded, if you do not, you will not.
@grendizerzero "all I was saying is as with any system, if you follow the rules, you will be rewarded, if you do not, you will not."
No. That is NOT what you said...AT ALL. You said, in effect, that if you do not follow the rules you get PUNISHED. That is NOT the same as not being rewarded (whether for five minutes or eternity). It is NOT "advanced" to conflate words with opposite meanings. It is a desperate act to hide your inconsistency, from others and possibly from yourself.
@philhellenes isn't failing a course, possibly leading to dismissal from college a PUNISHMENT for not studying? stop deluding yourself, everything in this world functions according to reward and punishment, why is this any different? it is the way people think and understand, analogies, things they can relate to. Do you really think heaven everything is literal to that extent? I am tired
@grendizerzero "isn't failing a course, possibly leading to dismissal from college a PUNISHMENT for not studying?"
No, it's not. It's lack of success. You're saying that if you run in a race, and finish last, the fact that you didn't get a medal is a "punishment". It's a bizarre way to see things. Life is full of failures. If you go through life with this attitude you are constantly going to feel "punished", presumably by Allah (as "all happens by Allah's Will alone").
regarding wars, any religion does not call for open warfare, Islam included, what Islam is calling for is self defense. I am not interested in the same discussions "the Quraan says so" it is very easy to take things out of context in ANY text in ANY language, including the Quraan.
btw Any illiterate looking at quantum mechanics will proclaim you insane if you believe it, true? if educated, things change.
People misinterpreting all religions are the causes of wars, not the religions themselves.
@grendizerzero I agree to a large extent. But as you yourself pointed out, the verses in the Qur'an (and ANY poetic, vague religious text) CAN be "re-interpreted". You see this as a STRENGTH of your religion, yet it is this very flexibility in interpretation which leads to disaster. You KNOW how some parts of the Qur'an and Hadith have been interpreted by jihadists. Your god wrote a book that can be interpreted in opposite ways. "Most Wise"? Not.
@grendizerzero ). Sura 4:56 "Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."
THAT'S hard to misinterpret. Think. If your god says none-Muslims will be burned like this in the afterlife, do you not see how that effects the average Muslim's view of the "worth" of none-Muslims in THIS life? You think this will "fix" the world?
in this context, God is saying the signs (evidence, whatever they maybe) indicate that He exists, overwhelming evidence, again it is a PERSONAL choice, how many pieces of evidence will convince YOU, not Joe, Jack, or Jane, You, that He is there. If you believe, God will grant you heaven in the afterlife "which is after we die", so why do you care? if not, well in the afterlife, there is hell, again after we have died.
interestingly enough, that verse you quoted has a scientific fact in it.
it says that "We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty" we know that the nerves are in the skin, that when burnt, we stop feeling any pain. But when we begin to heal, the pain comes back, because the nerve endings are healing again. No one knew a thousand years ago, but we do now, this just tells me that I should really look into the text, and try to REALLY understand what is being said, not what any schmuck with a few books under his arm says
@grendizerzero "...we know that the nerves are in the skin, that when burnt, we stop feeling any pain..."
Go to a burns ward in any hospital and repeat that, I dare you. Or, next time you have a deep cut, get a knife and cut into the muscle tissue BENEATH the skin. Tell me how it feels. If you are right, you shouldn't feel anything. If I am right, you will.
What silly things people have to say to justify their Scripture. Doesn't it embarrass you? Wouldn't you rather do your own thinking?
where is the knife in the fire? pain from FIRE or HEAT sensible to the SKIN, not a KNIFE, of course it hurts, but if skin is burnt, what pain is there to feel from MORE FIRE? nothing, that is the point.
@grendizerzero You're DESPERATELY trying to turn a farcical threat into a miracle! Allah be praised! He knew that burning hurts the skin! How ELSE could Mohammad have known? MIRACLE!
Pathetic. Truly pathetic. What a child discovers the first time it touches something hot, YOU, a self-claimed scientist, call "miraculous" knowledge!
One of the biggest problems with religion is that it makes otherwise intelligent people think and talk like utter morons.
Atheist friends, we believe in God, a supreme being, you don't. Belief is not something that can be proven, you either do or you do not. You believe that there is no God, you have evidence for it. We do, and we have. What are those? things you will not accept because they don't fit your dogma. As your evidence to us is just a way not face the glaring fact that this universe is designed by a higher being, power, or whatever, that we happen to refer to as God, Allah, or Yahweh.
@grendizerzero Muslim friend, dogma is a set of beliefs which cannot be changed. Muslims are ALWAYS saying that the Qur'an has not changed and cannot be changed. It is the very definition of dogma. You sound intelligent enough to know this, yet instead you say it is atheists that are dogmatic. Where is our dogma? We do not believe in God, but that is not dogma. That is a temporary position until we get convincing evidence. Am I "dogmatic" because I don't belief UFOs visit the Earth?
Muslims say, correctly, that the Quraan does not change, but that does not mean its interpretations do not. There are numerous cases where the Quraan was interpreted one way, only to mean something very different a 100 years later. This is why I am a Muslim, the system is a general, collective system, leaving enough room and flexibility to suit the times.
@grendizerzero The same can and has been done with the Bible. What else CAN you do but re-interpret as old beliefs become laughable. Your scripture says that stars are lamps to chase away devils. OF COURSE someone is going to "re-interpret" that! I mean no insult, though I risk you perceiving it as such. There should be only ONE reason to be a Muslim, and that is believing the claims of the religion are true, not that it offers a "flexible system" or that the beliefs can be made to seem modern.
@philhellenes there are many reasons to be a Muslim, why should there be only ONE? Islam calls for societal equality by instilling a system of "taxation" on the rich to spread to the poor, isn't that good? how about the rights of women to inherit? which was not there originally? how about the rights of bastard children? I never said it is a modern system, I just it is flexible in many areas as to allow for room to suit the times
@philhellenes I already listed some, an all encompassing system that tells me in very broad terms how to live well, help others, tells me to think of the world around me, and how to become a more disciplined person, how to enjoy life, how to give everything its due time and effort, and live life as though I will live forever, and how not to expect rewards from others, to do good just because it is good, to give to the needy, what more can I say?
there are so many examples of this, political systems for instance, do you think democracy is the best from of government? which kind of democracy? true where every one votes directly, or the US form, where a collegiate is involved? or vote for a party instead of a person? or a Monarchy? in Islam, as long as there is a unified government, that the people agree to, and there is a bench of consultants to state opinions on different matters, then anything is ok.
on dogma, the term "convincing" is very loose. UFO's as an example, 10 sightings? a 1000? when can we be convinced? is it when a set of scholars accept the evidence as fact? who are these scholars? are they credible? to whom? again, same principle, you say there is no evidence to prove the existence of God, because the system in place does not allow for it, example your "Not the Quraan" request. Isn't that dogma? "I will not change positions until I see evidence that suits MY way of thinking?"
@grendizerzero A scientist should be aware of the effects of mass hysteria, confirmation bias, self-deception etc. You do NOT believe in Einstein's physics because a scholar told you to believe. The reasoning was sound, the proofs ample, the calculations predict accurately and consistently. No "sightings" required.
Using the claims of a book as proof OF the book's claims is circular reasoning, hence "not the Quran". It's absurd to suggest it's dogmatic to not accept dogma.
If you use your head & think about everything around you, you will get closer to God and the reality of things, you will appreciate the genius behind it, & be humbled & know your place in this world.
2. To my Muslim brothers, the fact that we see science stating what WE (as Muslims) claim to have known more than a thousand years ago puts us in a tight spot,
i. if we knew, why did we not do much about it? why aren't we doing anything about it? do not tell me wars and etc. (Japan anyone?)
ii. if we knew, why are we in this state today?
I think the Quraan is absolute truth, period. But, it keeps telling you "ya ulu albab" meaning those with minds (not brains, minds, meaning thinkers)
I am going to say something, just two cents, maybe shedding some light on the matter.
1. I am a Muslim, but I hate the fact the people say "we KNEW about this more than 1000 years ago" wrong, it was WRITTEN, REVEALED, we SPOKE IT in prayers, meditations, etc. for more than a thousand years, but have not understood it. The reason for that is simple, we did not know, science came later and introduced the theory. Do not belittle human endeavor or genius.
Phil this is a trick question, please note that its us who have to develop knowledge and technology to understand the meaning in the quran (which has been proven not to have been changed since it was written 1400 years ago), its Undoubtedly, fourteen centuries ago that statement would have looked unusual, even to a scientific reseracher wheather an Arab or a non arab. this is proof, that the Qur'an is not outdated, but it is WE who are developing to understand better..
"the meaning in the quran (which has been proven not to have been changed since it was written 1400 years ago)"
Actually it does seem to have changed. Interestingly enough, it seems to have gained a different meaning since that kuffar Maurice Buccaille...Hmm!!! You'd think that even 300 years ago, that meaning "it keeps expanding" would be present even then, but sadly that is not the case.
well its my beliefs and you still cant dispute the fact that 1.5 billion people follow it. Even a level headed person would consider your opinions and the way in which you explain yourself is digusting. I dot personally have anything aganist someones beliefs so id quite like it if it could be the same with me.
@Khan12078 There's a difference between individual spirituality and personal belief on one hand and desperately trying to prove your belief as the only true one (i.e. as fact) based on lies. Just like Phil says, Islamic scholars did NOT derive any scientific progress from ANY Quranic miracle. No, what they do is look for vague verses and give them ambiguous translations and interpretations to fit today's science in them. That's not miraculous, that's horse crap.
@Khan12078 There's a difference between individual spirituality and personal belief on one hand and desperately trying to prove your belief as the only true one (i.e. as fact) based on lies. Just like Phil says, Islamic scholars did NOT derive any scientific progress from ANY Quranic miracle. No, what they do is look for vague verses and give them ambiguous translations and interpretations to fit today's science in them. That's not miraculous, that's bullshit.
@Khan12078 Number of muslims is of no importance at all, especially considering how many times higher the birth rate among muslims in comparison to other religions. Islam shouldn't be proved as the one true belief, because there is no one true belief. It's all a matter of faith. And for this simple reason, one's beliefs shouldn't be forced upon others, most importantly children. Until you have undeniable evidence (not silly miracle claims) of the existence of a god, your arguments are invalid.
@harisnsiddiqui I'd say it makes two errors in its first statement (the Earth was not present at the beginning of the Universe, NOR has it EVER been separated from the Universe), THEN it follows with an incorrect non sequitur, that all things are made from water, THEN it asks why we don't believe!
I think the only thing weaker than 21:30 is the "reasoning" that finds its recent re-interpretation "impressive".
SHAKIR: Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?
According to Stephen. Galaxies have been moving away from us which means they must have been closer to us in the Past. He continues that at some time they must have been on top of each other 15 Billion years ago. Known as Big Bang.
My Request to you is that Question but don't ridicule
@harisnsiddiqui My advise to you is don't mistake simplifications for a public audience with the actual science.
"According to Stephen..."
Hawking, nor any scientist for 100 years, actually means the galaxies WERE on top of each other. They did not exist at the beginning. The temperature was too high for any solid matter. Not a single atom existed. The Earth didn't form until 9 billion year later, and it's STILL very much in/part of the Universe. Stop seeing error as strength.
@philhellenes Most of the atoms that make up the Earth and its inhabitants were present in their current form in the nebula that collapsed out of a molecular cloud to form the Solar System. So I'm confused how and why your not able to grasp on to what I'm saying. Your statement is contradictory!!
@harisnsiddiqui You are comparing the collapse of a nebular that formed the solar system with the formation of matter at the beginning of the Universe. They are not comparable. That is why you are confused.
This occurs in stages. Lighter elements come together cooked in certain types of stars that then live fast and die.. ah.. hard. Those stars mix heavy and light elements in various degrees that then give rise to different types of stars.. all sorted by mass and composition, each applying in turn a different variable to the mix. Insert several billion years and you have a gas cloud with the possibility of creating an earth.
Far from the "we did it" scenario you are painting.
@philhellenes Lets not forget that Science its self is/has been evolving, quite similarly to the theory of evolution it self that evolves every single day. At the end of the day, much is speculation and theory. As some one else said below,
The Quran isent a book of SCIENCE but a book of SIGNS, fortold phrophercies which you could look in to (which you wont). If it was a book of Science, then it wouldent be the Divin Law of our Lord.
"Earth was not Present at the beginning of the Universe"
Is scientifically untrue, Earth in its present form was not there however every scientist would agree that it came into its current form of existence from the Big Bang thus become a product of the Big Bang or as some may suggest, separation of Matter. When joined or separated two Atom's do not loose there original classifications but rather would simply have taken a new form and name.
@harisnsiddiqui Scientifically, and literally, it IS true that the Earth was not present at the big bang for no atoms existed. To defend your beliefs you go to extraordinary lengths. You were not present at the big bang. You would not say, when the big bang is mentioned, that you were there and expect to be believed. Yet you were there in the POETIC sense that your atoms were there. You are taking poetry as literal truth. You can find how to discover the big bang in Shakespeare if you try. :)
Mr.Phill Im not going to debate with you over Surah 51 verse 47. However I will say this much that The miracle of Moses was his Staff, Jesus was given the power to give life by Allah's permission. The miracle given to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the word of God i.e. Quran surah 28 Verse 56 God simply says that Allah guides who he wills.
It is not Islam that is disapproving of Science but rather Science confirming the word of God and his Prophet. We don't have Altered version's like bible!
@philhellenes Its Ironic that you were challenging verse 51:47 on the bases that the 3 main translation by Yusuf, Pithal & Shakir do not use the word EXPANDING.
Than you make this claim about Stars when non of the above use the word Star,
YUSUFALI: adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones
Pickthal & Shakir also use the word Lamp?
Funny how when it favors your Point of you, you quote them.
@harisnsiddiqui PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.
You're right. The Qur'an does not use the word "stars". Allah thought they were "lamps".
@harisnsiddiqui Can you explain me your point, because I've read your exchange with Phil, and actually we know stars are not lamps... You pointed to something that contradicts the so called scientific knowledge that you claim to have in the qu'ran ? Why ?
The Quran isent a book of SCIENCE but a book of SIGNS, fortold phrophercies which you could look in to (which you wont). If it was a book of Science, then it wouldent be the Divin Law of our Lord, as he wants us to believe in him while not turning a blind eye, not based on facts but on faith. The Quran teaches us how to be a proper human being and tells us his creations.
@Khan12078 by proper human you mean slaughtering anyone that leaves your faith? yea...id rather stick with a moral human than a proper one in this case. your book isnt a book of signs at all by the way. we dont find science in your book we find nothing really but a bunch of bullshit and cruelty. the quran only teaches you to be a murderous piece of shit of a human being if you follow what it teaches.
@Delinexwow its funny your just expressing your emotions on whats going on in today society. dont trust what they meadi portray about Islam as it is controlled by the media. think with a free mind and not what those in the media put in. its all lyes go read the Quran and see wether it portrays what i personaly believe you think but people around you made you think.
@Khan12078 Nobody made anybody think anything other than the actions of your people and racist little Pakis like you.Your relgion stinks worse than the stale smell of your corner-shop from not clening it.
@Khan12078 heh, the quran clearly states what i said. the quran is a barbaric book, not played up by the media, but played up by the quran itself. its a satanic book and vile.
@Khan12078 i have no issue with islam, i have issues with your ignorant beliefs and your fake god. i also have issues with how you treat women, and your brutality against humans.
@Delinexwow well that does pretty much sum ups what i implied. and what Islam do you think creuelty to the extent to which you may remarks about how Muslim women are treated oh i know it all the media isent it. yes were terroists, hit the women. kill people for no apparent reason.
@Khan12078 so are you admitting to me that *I* know the quran better than you do? you are telling me what your religion is about yet you dont even know what it says?
@Khan12078 you dont have to answer that. the answer is yes, they do. that alone if i knew NOTHING else tells me your religion is a barbaric evil fucking sadistic religion, and the fact that your people DO follow through with it and we know it proves that. READ your fucking religion, its a vile evil book that is insane. YOU ARE DEMANDED BY ALLAH TO KILL ANYONE WHO LEAVES YOUR FAITH. ALLAH COMMANDS IT.
@Delinexwow well so does chrisrtianity which states that any homesexuality of sorts the person must be killed too. Then i guess you mut be angry at christianity too right?
@Khan12078 youre right, christianity is just as barbaric and cruel as the quran...whats your point? just because christianity is just as bad that makes yours ok? so if i go out and stab a little girl and say "well this other guy shot a little girl...so mines not that bad"? my views on christianity has nothing to do with the validity of your holy book.
Q 1: Arabic words have a range of meanings A 1: well my friend centuries ago the English vocabulary would have words which would have a range of meaning and now the English Language is expanding its vocabulary therefore having one meaning for a certain word while the Arabic Language is stillas old and primitive at the time of the Phrophet, and since then not changed. e.g. such as in old english FOEST would mean fast, firm and strong, meaning 3 different meaning of words
Wow, it's funny to see comments from people trying to alter and lie about the text to prove something that is clearly not there. You keep shutting them down based on the actual text and knowing what you're talking about. Great job and keep calling them out on their BS philhellenes.
mate am an ex muslim arab , quran is understand able in arabic and aint that hard and still ppl just ignore the truth and listen to stupid sheik who lie at them
beside in hadeth a guy ask mohd somthing
abo horaira : mohd tell me about everything
mohd says : everything created from water !
this hadeth is in saheh al bukari
--
2nd thing the earth has been created b4 the universe and it tokes 4 days out of the 6 and guss what ? the entire universe made in 2 days only lol
It says in Quran. 2:23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sūra like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true.
17:88. Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur’ān, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.
11:13. Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than God.- If ye speak the truth!
dont forget to read verse: 51:48 and 51:49 too, which are both miracles human did not know it 1400 years ago. 51:49 And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.
it is a miracle itself because truly everything is created by pairs even the plants, fruits etc... it is the new science that has discovered this.
philhellenes you are a kafir, kafir/infidels never learn, a kafir infidel is leaded by satan. until you clean your heart and read the quran with a clean heart
This video is amazing! Thank you so much for making it! Thats EXACTLY what i've always wanted to tell those people! Although arguing with them is never useful :/ but thanks again :) I'm passing this video to everyone I know who might be interested!
@MrSMH16 YES. MUCH more! I want the exact name of the book in which he said this and the websites you are looking at. PM me with all your evidence. When can I see references to this statement. It seems remarkably obscure and hard to find considering it makes a good piece of evidence for Islamic miracle claims. Give me details of where my ex-muslim arab-speaking friends can see the actual texts (not altered translations). How did YOU find your reference?
Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? SURA 21 :30
Stupid man. You've got to know how to read the translation. Read it from a knowledgeable scholar who knows how the people at that time interpreted it as or how the people who have excelled in Arabic have translated it.
Dark matter: theoreticly neutrino's and it makes up to about one fifth of all the mass in the universe they are thinking of using it for space ship fuel because there is no waste and the neutralino's upon impact with eachother would anhialate them selves and the other neutralino they impacted with there is dark matter in a nutshell
Dark energy
Is a large amount of gravity that creates a amount of mass pushing and pulling the gallaxies together thats dark energy in a nutshell
this is good you read quran.but your science is false because big-bang and black hole really does not exit also your dark energy so why make laugh people. Google it or go to NASA web site.good work block comment.
@mst9210 i'm not a follower of Islam but I do believe all religions do contain great truths that have been twisted through the centuries by various individuals to control populations.
What's your theory on the structure of western language versus eastern language? they read words right to left but like us numbers left to right. of course we use the arabic numerical system but why did we switch the way we read words? there way of reading allows right brain access for words and left brain access for numbers which seems to make sense to me. that's why davinci read his notes via a mirror i'd say. you seem like a left and right brain guy, what do you think?
It's much the same as those who changed the unicorn in the KJV of Job 39:9 to a wild ox when I suppose they finally realized that unicorns didn't actually exist. The retcons of religion...fantastic.
Why did you block me like the hypocrite that you are? And it's nice that you used your other fake account "waytohell2" by pretending to be another person. Nice try buddy, nice try :)
@S0meFA10 - You have no counter arguments. You have no intention of listening. You just insult people. You're the one with sock accounts not me. In short, you're a troll.
maybe mohamad was looking at the stars and saw the clouds move and thought it is -,- that piece of cloud moves that way and never comes back! who knows, people predicted we will go to the moon before we had even an idea of how to fly. even you and i can predict many things and surely one or 2 will hit the right spot ;)
It said "expanded" (made big). That is past tense, meaning the expansion happened in the past. That is WRONG, because the expansion is STILL happening today. It should say "expanding". Also, if your claim is miraculous, then the Bible (another book of mythology) is MORE miraculous for it said the same 600 years earlier, in Isaiah 42:5: "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out..."
It's all poetry. But you see miracles. Because you are easily fooled.
@philhellenes in the verse it is " موسعون " not "موسع" i'm arabic and this word is clearly in Present Continuous (Progressive) Tense like expanding with ing at the end , now would you translate it in google to see for yourself look for "موسعون".and thank you for your respectful arguments we really appreciate it , because a lot of people just want to insult our religion .
@mj4ever001 Taqqiyah. You're SUCH a liar. A non-Arabic speaker can be forgiven for a mistake. YOU cannot. It is not a mistake. It is a bare-faced lie. ANYONE can google the Sura 51:47 and check for themselves. NOT ONE translation before 1922 said "expanding" in the translation.
The only possible excuse for YOU is that modern Qur'ans have altered the arabic word used for 1400 years. And if THAT's the case then your whole religion is a sham for altering its holy text.
@philhellenes there is nothing called modern Qurans the original text is preserved and quran without any doubt is the same book that brought to us by our prophet ,with revelation from allah , the word mentioned in the verse is "موسعون" from the verb " وسع" if you look for " وسع" in google translation you"ll find this :
@mj4ever001 Tell me ONE English translation from before 1922 that uses "expanding" in Sura 51:47. Give me the translator's name and the approximate date of the translation. YOU CAN'T. So I know you are a liar. I don't have to be smart to know that.
@philhellenes i don't need a translation before or after 1922 ,but i'll look for one for you, because it is clear to me that the word mentioned is a verb in the present continuous tense ,it's originated from the verb "موسع" which clearly means to Expand .therfore the meaning of the word it EXPANDING.
@philhellenes here another one M. Asad-- "AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
anyway translations are not reliable ,because the word of God can not be translate it by men correctly ,the meaning will be lost , you have to learn arabic for better understanding, you'll find that in the first page of any translated Quran .
1. M. Asad ((1900–1992) did his translation in 1932, 3 years after Hubble told the world the Universe was expanding. And you would call this a "miracle"?
2. His "translation" is banned in Saudi Arabia, as it "deviates from the orthodox interpretation of some passages (according to Khaleel Mohammed in "Assessing English Translations of the Qur'an").
You're trying to make it SEEM you can show me an older translation that mentions expanding, WITHOUT actually doing it. That's lying.
man I don't know why you stressing yourself out over this matter, I am an arab and I don't need to make that big deal of an effort to understand what that verse says in the end that God is expanding (it), and nothing follows that word in the same verse, so it looks like it's not determined, but the context of the verse is talking about the "universe" in a way that the ancient people at the time wouldn't have a problem with it.
@philhellenes The user Klingschor explains many fallacies from Islamic Fundies.
I also thought that translating that verb as "expanding" was considered heretic in Saudi Arabia, but I might be wrong. Anyway there are too many absurdities in Coran to be considered a book on "science" other than a religious book.
@philhellenes Alot of things written in the Bible are seemingly the wrong tense as well, but think about time in accordance to special relativity. Perhaps according to the center of the universe's frame of reference, the universe is no longer expanding. Perhaps the time it was writing about wasn't referring to us now, or from our frame of reference. Just a thought, not sure if it's right though.
Anyone can Google the older translations. They will not find "expanding" in there. I realise there is a big push to alter modern translations but as long as the older translations exist it is proof of Islam "retro-fitting" its "holy" texts meaning to fit modern science. And if the expansion was disproved tomorrow Islam would alter it back. Fact is NO Muslim scholar in the 1400 years before the big bang was discovered even SUGGESTED that the Universe MIGHT be getting bigger. THAT is why you lose.
And I ask all the Muslims here ..Do Not speak of that which you have No knowledge of.. you will give our friend here false information and sound ignorant leave this for a scholar, it is obvious he is interested about Islam otherwise he would make these videos or even read the translations..Lets just make Dua for him and pray that Allah guides him to the straight path..
Oh huggable buddy, by the crusty toenails of Mohammad (PBUH), please, I beseech you, tell Allah that his followers are shaming Islam by lying, seemingly without end, and seemingly being as obnoxious as they can possibly be, and giving the impression to many non-Muslims that Islam is populated by some sick, backward, uneducated, dishonest, gullible, ignorant, unintelligent, and racist people. Why are the ex-Muslims the only truly friendly Muslims? Allah is most merciful, most hygienic.
my friend Phil here has a funny way of expressing a cry for help..May Allah guide you to the truth and I will pray and make Dua for you, And I would like for you to do the same..The whole aetheist thing is kind is sad..I know people can't be this lost. do you really feel everything just magically appeared..and answer this mr Big Bang..What happened 0.00000001 seconds before the big bang..(just curious) May ALLAH GUIDE YOU MY FRIEND
My dear friend, if you make Dua for me, I shall make spaghetti for you. It's very tasty and filling. Magic? Brother, can you not see that you are the believer in magic? I believe in natural causes, laws and forces, things calculable and predictable with sufficient data. YOU are the one who presents to me "Allah did it" as your explanation for the Universe, yet when I ask "how?", you have NOTHING to say. I have dozens of possibilities to offer. May Allah fluff your pillow this very evening.
There is so much in the Quran that prodicts the future and predicted the past and gives us clues of what is to come and what will happen. The Quran says that if one of the proofs given or predictions given is not true then therefor the Quran is not true either. So My challenge is for you to find something that is not true.
Hey bro, don't take this loser in the video seriously. He is just a immature jerk who likes to act like a 12 year old kid even though this guys is a grown man.
oh right? and how are you different from the things you claimed he is right now?
your looking at a person who is asking you for a proof to your claim and thats all you can come up with ? how very mature of you to do sir. استخدم عقلك شوية
Yeah because when you see how mature that guy in the video is in his comments, then maybe you see why I say this. But I guess you need to look harder next time :)
What? he sounded more mature to me than you did. he took in consideration that he is wrong. and asked you to provide something to prove YOUR claims (as a Muslim).
and you came back with, this guy is bla bla and hes immature bla cry cry.
the guy asked a question and your answer is your acting like a kid. huh maybe you need a class in logic or critical thinking.
it is obvious you either didn't see the video or just is stupid enough to not understand what is being said.
lol i love it when you and people like you turn to tell me that i am the one who is angry -,- i am enjoying this actually, why would i be angry? if your stupid all i need to do is stay away from you in real life so i don't get infected :).
i am actually laughing at what ur saying because its so stupid, and the amazing thing is that you don't even know it..
I never said that I was angry. And aren't you the one has done nothing but whine at me? Even right now by looking at your comments, it seems that you are the one who is pissed off and you try to cover it up by saying that you are laughing at me. I mean come on buddy :)
huh, funny hehe i was just point the flaw of your comment. while all i heared from you was No answer what so ever and your best shot was "Jeez maybe you should calm down and get some rest you sad little boy :)"
i see no point in talking to you. have a nice one.
I like how they make predictions out of hiensight, lol. I totally agree with you. I ask Tell us something we don`t know, from in thier book, then we can test it.
So....you have the dishonesty to claim Islam DID know the Universe was expanding for 1400 years before science discovered it. Cool. :)
If the Arabic word used in the Qur'an clearly did mean expansion, Islam knew. If NOT, then it DID not.
So now, in your NEXT comment, you will give me the name of ONE Muslim scholar who said the Universe is getting bigger every day, in a book published before 1922. If you can't (AND YOU CAN'T) you will either accept your error, or waffle (you WILL waffle).
first of all, the dishonesty is yours, of rejecting a synonym, second you need to understand that no muslim would dare to say we have in the Qur'an said that universe is getting bigger every day, all it says in the Quran is that it is expanding, extending, getting bigger you may call it as you wish, but the meaning stays the same, we don't have to accept an error made up by you, which does not even exist neither claimed by any of us.
Well i tell ppl thing stuff from the Quran and still they don't believe me. So how can we make any of you understand? The Quran says that there will be ppl keep denying the facts you come with. And btw do you think that the Quran will keep on telling stuff that wont come?
Cause who knows when the last day comes and the world will go back in time til the day ppl will fight with rock and sticks again(Also told be Eisenstein)
Has anyone yet noticed that all these videos full of hate are in full attack mode on Muslims and Islam?! Why is that? Lakum deenukum wal yadeen. (last verse in sura Kaferoon) meaning: you follow your religion and I will follow mine.
I consider an athiest like weed growing on the sides of my driveway. No purpose for life.
No, only people who are hypersensitive and consider disagreement to be a form of hatred notice that. This was a very calmly and patiently presented point about how it is unjustified to claim scientific foreknowledge of the Big Bang from the Quran, especially as the person who actually DID make that discovery had probably never read the Quran, and no one who had been reading it for over a thousand years managed to offer that insight to the scientific community.
Rules for a god:
1. Speak to people that cant write
2. Tell them that their language(which at the time is still forming) is the greatest
3. Make random claims that you are always watching your people and can do anything, really give them a few scares.
4. Make a few more appearances and even wrestle a few of your creations then never appear again.
TheDreadedlife 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from philhellenes
وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ
i had many MANY doubts about islam . raised as one i am constantly learning . la-mowaseon ask ANY SINGLE ARABIC PERSON ANYONE he ll tell you that it means expanding. not even doubting the word for a second
Thejadjadjad 1 month ago
@Thejadjadjad I ALREADY "asked" Yusuf Ali and Shakir, by reading their translations:
YUSUFALI: "With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace."
SHAKIR: "And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample."
Now YOU tell me why not ONE Muslim scholar in 1400 YEARS (NOT ONE!!!!) said the Universe was expanding if the Qur'an SAID "expanding"? You know ancient Arabic better than ALL those scholars?
philhellenes 1 month ago
@philhellenes i am willing to denounce my belief if you grab a camera ask an arab ( egyptian,syrian,lebanese,from the gulf ) what does the word YATAWASAOUN mean. vastness does mean the "expansion" but a more "philosophical" shaky meaning if you ask me. ample also refers to a "great number" both of these meaning are very shocking. the only meaning i myself know of yatawsaoun is expansion. i am no extremist. i prefered agnosticsm. my faith is still shaky but this point is true.
Thejadjadjad 1 month ago
@Thejadjadjad Yet, you haven't answered my question: Why didn't ONE Muslim scholar in 1400 YEARS say (or even SUGGEST) that the Universe was (even MIGHT be) expanding if the Qur'an SAID "expanding"?
Think. How many Muslims studied the Qur'an in fine detail, devoted their entire LIVES to finding meaning in the Qur'an in those 1400 YEARS? Millions? Yet, you understand the context of the ancient Arabic language that they spoke better than ALL of them? That IS, in effect, exactly what you're saying.
philhellenes 1 month ago
@philhellenes there might be copies,translations many factors might blurr the intrepertation. but see thats why the quran is and basicly understand in only one language .Muslims believe that god choose arabic since it was the best language when it comes to expressing ones feeling and description.NEVERTHELESS our challenege is still on. i am no scholar i ve research the surah . read it once and i ve seen this video. it is definetly expanding.
Thejadjadjad 1 month ago
muslims do not claim they knew about the expansion all along...they say it was there in quran but since it can be interpreted in different ways we didn't realize it until just recently, (today we all know about it but when first discovered it was pretty mind blowing, so we can't blame them for that) and technically the verse can indeed be translated into "I'm constantly expanding it", I'm an atheist myself but this make you think, doesn't it?!
kfkfkf2000 7 months ago
@kfkfkf2000 "we didn't realize it until just recently..."?
"We"? Check out Maurice Bucaille, the FIRST to make the claim. Made MILLIONS by selling a book but NEVER converted to Islam. When a man who was only just learning Arabic tells Muslims how to "interpret" the language it SCREAMS bullshit.
The verse is referring to the SKY, AND the verse is in the PAST tense. Nothing implies it's talking about space or that the "expanse" is still expanding. Past tense clearly implies the opposite.
philhellenes 7 months ago 3
@philhellenes sorry dude, my bad about the translation, I did some research about the word, I already knew a little Arabic (studying it is mandatory in my country and believe me it's hard as fuck, at least compared to learning English), and first it seemed to me that the word it's not even a verb, but an adjective, I wasn't sure...apparently it is an adjective meaning powerful and mighty, at least that's how some of the most respected islamic scholars that I know have translated it
kfkfkf2000 7 months ago
"AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
This is the translation of Muhammad Asad, who provided commentary stating that this foretells an expanding universe. Of course, he published this in 1980, so I guess Hubble scooped him.
Also, the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate, not "steadily".
wilfredthebold 7 months ago
Quran says that earth was created first -in 2 days- then the rest of the universe... Does this matches the big bang??
ahumangotbrain 7 months ago
I am an Arabic Muslim. To be honest, that verse can have different meanings.
Mrbobab 7 months ago
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Mrbobab 7 months ago
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Mrbobab 7 months ago
I have two words for you my friend..
learn Arabic
truth101 8 months ago
@truth101 You need to learn English. The only time the Qur'an says expansion is decades after the big bang. That's what we call reverse engineering. Do you have a book before 1922 that says the universe was expanding, no. Did you correct Einstein when he thought the universe didn't move, no. I'm sure in a couple of decades Muslim will be saying the Qu'ran proves such things as dark energy or Evolution. Islam says life is creator from water and evolution says life began in water, ahh there we go.
Moh5Itachi1 7 months ago
@Moh5Itachi1 What is i bring to you a 100 year old man from China, Africa, Saudi, Pakistan etc. and ask them to recite these verses that they learnt probably when they were 8 years old. No one can change the Qur'an not even Prophets of God.
truth101 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@truth101 ''What is i bring to you a 100 year old man from China, Africa, Saudi, Pakistan etc. and ask them to recite these verses that they learnt probably when they were 8 years old. No one can change the Qur'an not even Prophets of God.''
HUH? That had absolutely nothing to do with what i said.
Moh5Itachi1 7 months ago
So, lets leave these discussions aside, and fix the world we live in, reduce hunger, wars, or even get rid of them, further science and knowledge, cure more diseases. etc.
I am an engineer, a scientist, I read, I think, I philosophize, I believe there is no limit to the human mind, achievement, or endeavor.
& before I sleep, I pray on the rug, I read the Quraan, and I ask Allah to help me be better tomorrow.
I wake up, I pray, then I go to work, to make this world better in my own little way
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero We cannot leave these discussions aside. Religions facilitate wars by making the enemy an enemy of God. Such conflicts are almost impossible to end for they are, in effect, proclaimed by God (and God can never say, "I changed my mind").
You are a scientist who believes the Qur'an is the perfect word of a god, that Allah will burn my skin off for "rejecting His signs"? Doesn't SOUND very scientific. Actually, it sounds insane.
philhellenes 8 months ago
@philhellenes isn't burning a form of punishment? as a scientist, if you get an F in a course, and possibly not graduate with a degree that could have landed you a good job and made live a happy and fruitful life? isn't that "punishment" in way for not studying properly? why is this punishment accepted and some supreme being saying I will burn you in hell if you do not believe? (focus, I am saying believe, getting to other things in a minute)
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero You are confusing a lack of reward with punishment. If I can't see these "signs" (because there are far more plausible, rational and evidenced explanations) that is my "fault"? That deserves punishment is fire for ETERNITY? Your sense of justice has been SEVERELY perverted by your religion. All the good things none-Muslims have done, and you ask WHY they should NOT be burned for eternity?
I'm sure you are completely sane, but when you try to justify Hell you sound utterly mad.
philhellenes 8 months ago
@philhellenes
it is obvious that as far as language goes, you are not very advanced, lack of reward, over a long period of time, can be construed as punishment. In any case, I was trying to use an analogy, I did not mention justice anywhere, all I was saying is as with any system, if you follow the rules, you will be rewarded, if you do not, you will not.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero "all I was saying is as with any system, if you follow the rules, you will be rewarded, if you do not, you will not."
No. That is NOT what you said...AT ALL. You said, in effect, that if you do not follow the rules you get PUNISHED. That is NOT the same as not being rewarded (whether for five minutes or eternity). It is NOT "advanced" to conflate words with opposite meanings. It is a desperate act to hide your inconsistency, from others and possibly from yourself.
philhellenes 8 months ago
@philhellenes isn't failing a course, possibly leading to dismissal from college a PUNISHMENT for not studying? stop deluding yourself, everything in this world functions according to reward and punishment, why is this any different? it is the way people think and understand, analogies, things they can relate to. Do you really think heaven everything is literal to that extent? I am tired
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero "isn't failing a course, possibly leading to dismissal from college a PUNISHMENT for not studying?"
No, it's not. It's lack of success. You're saying that if you run in a race, and finish last, the fact that you didn't get a medal is a "punishment". It's a bizarre way to see things. Life is full of failures. If you go through life with this attitude you are constantly going to feel "punished", presumably by Allah (as "all happens by Allah's Will alone").
philhellenes 8 months ago
regarding wars, any religion does not call for open warfare, Islam included, what Islam is calling for is self defense. I am not interested in the same discussions "the Quraan says so" it is very easy to take things out of context in ANY text in ANY language, including the Quraan.
btw Any illiterate looking at quantum mechanics will proclaim you insane if you believe it, true? if educated, things change.
People misinterpreting all religions are the causes of wars, not the religions themselves.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero I agree to a large extent. But as you yourself pointed out, the verses in the Qur'an (and ANY poetic, vague religious text) CAN be "re-interpreted". You see this as a STRENGTH of your religion, yet it is this very flexibility in interpretation which leads to disaster. You KNOW how some parts of the Qur'an and Hadith have been interpreted by jihadists. Your god wrote a book that can be interpreted in opposite ways. "Most Wise"? Not.
philhellenes 8 months ago
@philhellenes so why is Islam to blame? blame the misinterpretation, not the system.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero ). Sura 4:56 "Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."
THAT'S hard to misinterpret. Think. If your god says none-Muslims will be burned like this in the afterlife, do you not see how that effects the average Muslim's view of the "worth" of none-Muslims in THIS life? You think this will "fix" the world?
philhellenes 8 months ago
in this context, God is saying the signs (evidence, whatever they maybe) indicate that He exists, overwhelming evidence, again it is a PERSONAL choice, how many pieces of evidence will convince YOU, not Joe, Jack, or Jane, You, that He is there. If you believe, God will grant you heaven in the afterlife "which is after we die", so why do you care? if not, well in the afterlife, there is hell, again after we have died.
interestingly enough, that verse you quoted has a scientific fact in it.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
it says that "We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty" we know that the nerves are in the skin, that when burnt, we stop feeling any pain. But when we begin to heal, the pain comes back, because the nerve endings are healing again. No one knew a thousand years ago, but we do now, this just tells me that I should really look into the text, and try to REALLY understand what is being said, not what any schmuck with a few books under his arm says
That is another reason
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero "...we know that the nerves are in the skin, that when burnt, we stop feeling any pain..."
Go to a burns ward in any hospital and repeat that, I dare you. Or, next time you have a deep cut, get a knife and cut into the muscle tissue BENEATH the skin. Tell me how it feels. If you are right, you shouldn't feel anything. If I am right, you will.
What silly things people have to say to justify their Scripture. Doesn't it embarrass you? Wouldn't you rather do your own thinking?
philhellenes 8 months ago
where is the knife in the fire? pain from FIRE or HEAT sensible to the SKIN, not a KNIFE, of course it hurts, but if skin is burnt, what pain is there to feel from MORE FIRE? nothing, that is the point.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero You're DESPERATELY trying to turn a farcical threat into a miracle! Allah be praised! He knew that burning hurts the skin! How ELSE could Mohammad have known? MIRACLE!
Pathetic. Truly pathetic. What a child discovers the first time it touches something hot, YOU, a self-claimed scientist, call "miraculous" knowledge!
One of the biggest problems with religion is that it makes otherwise intelligent people think and talk like utter morons.
philhellenes 8 months ago
Atheist friends, we believe in God, a supreme being, you don't. Belief is not something that can be proven, you either do or you do not. You believe that there is no God, you have evidence for it. We do, and we have. What are those? things you will not accept because they don't fit your dogma. As your evidence to us is just a way not face the glaring fact that this universe is designed by a higher being, power, or whatever, that we happen to refer to as God, Allah, or Yahweh.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero Muslim friend, dogma is a set of beliefs which cannot be changed. Muslims are ALWAYS saying that the Qur'an has not changed and cannot be changed. It is the very definition of dogma. You sound intelligent enough to know this, yet instead you say it is atheists that are dogmatic. Where is our dogma? We do not believe in God, but that is not dogma. That is a temporary position until we get convincing evidence. Am I "dogmatic" because I don't belief UFOs visit the Earth?
philhellenes 8 months ago
friend philhellenes
Muslims say, correctly, that the Quraan does not change, but that does not mean its interpretations do not. There are numerous cases where the Quraan was interpreted one way, only to mean something very different a 100 years later. This is why I am a Muslim, the system is a general, collective system, leaving enough room and flexibility to suit the times.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero The same can and has been done with the Bible. What else CAN you do but re-interpret as old beliefs become laughable. Your scripture says that stars are lamps to chase away devils. OF COURSE someone is going to "re-interpret" that! I mean no insult, though I risk you perceiving it as such. There should be only ONE reason to be a Muslim, and that is believing the claims of the religion are true, not that it offers a "flexible system" or that the beliefs can be made to seem modern.
philhellenes 8 months ago
@philhellenes there are many reasons to be a Muslim, why should there be only ONE? Islam calls for societal equality by instilling a system of "taxation" on the rich to spread to the poor, isn't that good? how about the rights of women to inherit? which was not there originally? how about the rights of bastard children? I never said it is a modern system, I just it is flexible in many areas as to allow for room to suit the times
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero I say again, someone should ONLY be a Muslim if they believe the Qur'an to have come from Allah. What other reasons do you propose?
philhellenes 8 months ago
@philhellenes I already listed some, an all encompassing system that tells me in very broad terms how to live well, help others, tells me to think of the world around me, and how to become a more disciplined person, how to enjoy life, how to give everything its due time and effort, and live life as though I will live forever, and how not to expect rewards from others, to do good just because it is good, to give to the needy, what more can I say?
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero Scientologists and Christians say exactly the same.
philhellenes 8 months ago
there are so many examples of this, political systems for instance, do you think democracy is the best from of government? which kind of democracy? true where every one votes directly, or the US form, where a collegiate is involved? or vote for a party instead of a person? or a Monarchy? in Islam, as long as there is a unified government, that the people agree to, and there is a bench of consultants to state opinions on different matters, then anything is ok.
That is Islam, flexible for all time
grendizerzero 8 months ago
on dogma, the term "convincing" is very loose. UFO's as an example, 10 sightings? a 1000? when can we be convinced? is it when a set of scholars accept the evidence as fact? who are these scholars? are they credible? to whom? again, same principle, you say there is no evidence to prove the existence of God, because the system in place does not allow for it, example your "Not the Quraan" request. Isn't that dogma? "I will not change positions until I see evidence that suits MY way of thinking?"
grendizerzero 8 months ago
@grendizerzero A scientist should be aware of the effects of mass hysteria, confirmation bias, self-deception etc. You do NOT believe in Einstein's physics because a scholar told you to believe. The reasoning was sound, the proofs ample, the calculations predict accurately and consistently. No "sightings" required.
Using the claims of a book as proof OF the book's claims is circular reasoning, hence "not the Quran". It's absurd to suggest it's dogmatic to not accept dogma.
philhellenes 8 months ago
If you use your head & think about everything around you, you will get closer to God and the reality of things, you will appreciate the genius behind it, & be humbled & know your place in this world.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
2. To my Muslim brothers, the fact that we see science stating what WE (as Muslims) claim to have known more than a thousand years ago puts us in a tight spot,
i. if we knew, why did we not do much about it? why aren't we doing anything about it? do not tell me wars and etc. (Japan anyone?)
ii. if we knew, why are we in this state today?
I think the Quraan is absolute truth, period. But, it keeps telling you "ya ulu albab" meaning those with minds (not brains, minds, meaning thinkers)
grendizerzero 8 months ago
I am going to say something, just two cents, maybe shedding some light on the matter.
1. I am a Muslim, but I hate the fact the people say "we KNEW about this more than 1000 years ago" wrong, it was WRITTEN, REVEALED, we SPOKE IT in prayers, meditations, etc. for more than a thousand years, but have not understood it. The reason for that is simple, we did not know, science came later and introduced the theory. Do not belittle human endeavor or genius.
grendizerzero 8 months ago
Phil this is a trick question, please note that its us who have to develop knowledge and technology to understand the meaning in the quran (which has been proven not to have been changed since it was written 1400 years ago), its Undoubtedly, fourteen centuries ago that statement would have looked unusual, even to a scientific reseracher wheather an Arab or a non arab. this is proof, that the Qur'an is not outdated, but it is WE who are developing to understand better..
SaryBasha 9 months ago
@SaryBasha
@SaryBasha
"the meaning in the quran (which has been proven not to have been changed since it was written 1400 years ago)"
Actually it does seem to have changed. Interestingly enough, it seems to have gained a different meaning since that kuffar Maurice Buccaille...Hmm!!! You'd think that even 300 years ago, that meaning "it keeps expanding" would be present even then, but sadly that is not the case.
DesiFreethinkers 8 months ago
I Think Im gonna start praying again
If you're up there can you hear me Superman!!!
alfredproofrock 1 year ago
No it says its EXPANDING fool
edlgotbanged 1 year ago
i personally have nothing over someone belifes and id like it if the same could be said for me.
Khan12078 1 year ago
well its my beliefs and you still cant dispute the fact that 1.5 billion people follow it. Even a level headed person would consider your opinions and the way in which you explain yourself is digusting. I dot personally have anything aganist someones beliefs so id quite like it if it could be the same with me.
Khan12078 1 year ago
@Khan12078 There's a difference between individual spirituality and personal belief on one hand and desperately trying to prove your belief as the only true one (i.e. as fact) based on lies. Just like Phil says, Islamic scholars did NOT derive any scientific progress from ANY Quranic miracle. No, what they do is look for vague verses and give them ambiguous translations and interpretations to fit today's science in them. That's not miraculous, that's horse crap.
robbegx 1 year ago
@Khan12078 There's a difference between individual spirituality and personal belief on one hand and desperately trying to prove your belief as the only true one (i.e. as fact) based on lies. Just like Phil says, Islamic scholars did NOT derive any scientific progress from ANY Quranic miracle. No, what they do is look for vague verses and give them ambiguous translations and interpretations to fit today's science in them. That's not miraculous, that's bullshit.
robbegx 1 year ago
@Khan12078 Number of muslims is of no importance at all, especially considering how many times higher the birth rate among muslims in comparison to other religions. Islam shouldn't be proved as the one true belief, because there is no one true belief. It's all a matter of faith. And for this simple reason, one's beliefs shouldn't be forced upon others, most importantly children. Until you have undeniable evidence (not silly miracle claims) of the existence of a god, your arguments are invalid.
robbegx 1 year ago
The name of this asshole is pronounced Moris bukaï... He's french...
Acrimonator 1 year ago
What would you say about Surah 21 Verse 30?
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui I'd say it makes two errors in its first statement (the Earth was not present at the beginning of the Universe, NOR has it EVER been separated from the Universe), THEN it follows with an incorrect non sequitur, that all things are made from water, THEN it asks why we don't believe!
I think the only thing weaker than 21:30 is the "reasoning" that finds its recent re-interpretation "impressive".
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes Quran 21:30
SHAKIR: Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?
According to Stephen. Galaxies have been moving away from us which means they must have been closer to us in the Past. He continues that at some time they must have been on top of each other 15 Billion years ago. Known as Big Bang.
My Request to you is that Question but don't ridicule
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui My advise to you is don't mistake simplifications for a public audience with the actual science.
"According to Stephen..."
Hawking, nor any scientist for 100 years, actually means the galaxies WERE on top of each other. They did not exist at the beginning. The temperature was too high for any solid matter. Not a single atom existed. The Earth didn't form until 9 billion year later, and it's STILL very much in/part of the Universe. Stop seeing error as strength.
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes What I said predates the formation of Earth so your putting words in my mouth.
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui Well, I didn't put any words in your mouth. You just put them in your own mouth.
"What I said predates the formation of Earth..."
So, BY YOUR OWN WORDS, you're saying the Earth was there BEFORE its formation. Your logic eats itself.
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes Most of the atoms that make up the Earth and its inhabitants were present in their current form in the nebula that collapsed out of a molecular cloud to form the Solar System. So I'm confused how and why your not able to grasp on to what I'm saying. Your statement is contradictory!!
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui You are comparing the collapse of a nebular that formed the solar system with the formation of matter at the beginning of the Universe. They are not comparable. That is why you are confused.
philhellenes 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui
This occurs in stages. Lighter elements come together cooked in certain types of stars that then live fast and die.. ah.. hard. Those stars mix heavy and light elements in various degrees that then give rise to different types of stars.. all sorted by mass and composition, each applying in turn a different variable to the mix. Insert several billion years and you have a gas cloud with the possibility of creating an earth.
Far from the "we did it" scenario you are painting.
PaleHearse 1 year ago
@philhellenes Lets not forget that Science its self is/has been evolving, quite similarly to the theory of evolution it self that evolves every single day. At the end of the day, much is speculation and theory. As some one else said below,
The Quran isent a book of SCIENCE but a book of SIGNS, fortold phrophercies which you could look in to (which you wont). If it was a book of Science, then it wouldent be the Divin Law of our Lord.
I'll rest my case!!!
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@philhellenes Exactly, Stepehn did not say,
"actually means the galaxies WERE on top of each other"
ACTUALLY, no. Rather he speculated and gave a theory so yah I'd agree to disagree.
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@philhellenes Your Statement that,
"Earth was not Present at the beginning of the Universe"
Is scientifically untrue, Earth in its present form was not there however every scientist would agree that it came into its current form of existence from the Big Bang thus become a product of the Big Bang or as some may suggest, separation of Matter. When joined or separated two Atom's do not loose there original classifications but rather would simply have taken a new form and name.
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui Scientifically, and literally, it IS true that the Earth was not present at the big bang for no atoms existed. To defend your beliefs you go to extraordinary lengths. You were not present at the big bang. You would not say, when the big bang is mentioned, that you were there and expect to be believed. Yet you were there in the POETIC sense that your atoms were there. You are taking poetry as literal truth. You can find how to discover the big bang in Shakespeare if you try. :)
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes Putting words in my mouth again, I never said AT rather I said it was a Product of the Big Bang.
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
Mr.Phill Im not going to debate with you over Surah 51 verse 47. However I will say this much that The miracle of Moses was his Staff, Jesus was given the power to give life by Allah's permission. The miracle given to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the word of God i.e. Quran surah 28 Verse 56 God simply says that Allah guides who he wills.
It is not Islam that is disapproving of Science but rather Science confirming the word of God and his Prophet. We don't have Altered version's like bible!
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui "It is not Islam that is disapproving of Science but rather Science confirming the word of God and his Prophet..."
So go convert Stephen Hawking! Should be easy with all that scientific "confirmation" you have.
It says in the Qur'an that "stars are lamps to chase away devils". Wanna tell us what relativity and quantum mechanics says about that?
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes Its Ironic that you were challenging verse 51:47 on the bases that the 3 main translation by Yusuf, Pithal & Shakir do not use the word EXPANDING.
Than you make this claim about Stars when non of the above use the word Star,
YUSUFALI: adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones
Pickthal & Shakir also use the word Lamp?
Funny how when it favors your Point of you, you quote them.
So its pointless to Debate you!!!
harisnsiddiqui 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui PICKTHAL: And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
SHAKIR: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.
You're right. The Qur'an does not use the word "stars". Allah thought they were "lamps".
philhellenes 1 year ago
@harisnsiddiqui Can you explain me your point, because I've read your exchange with Phil, and actually we know stars are not lamps... You pointed to something that contradicts the so called scientific knowledge that you claim to have in the qu'ran ? Why ?
Acrimonator 1 year ago
The Quran isent a book of SCIENCE but a book of SIGNS, fortold phrophercies which you could look in to (which you wont). If it was a book of Science, then it wouldent be the Divin Law of our Lord, as he wants us to believe in him while not turning a blind eye, not based on facts but on faith. The Quran teaches us how to be a proper human being and tells us his creations.
Khan12078 1 year ago
@Khan12078 by proper human you mean slaughtering anyone that leaves your faith? yea...id rather stick with a moral human than a proper one in this case. your book isnt a book of signs at all by the way. we dont find science in your book we find nothing really but a bunch of bullshit and cruelty. the quran only teaches you to be a murderous piece of shit of a human being if you follow what it teaches.
Delinexwow 1 year ago
@Delinexwow its funny your just expressing your emotions on whats going on in today society. dont trust what they meadi portray about Islam as it is controlled by the media. think with a free mind and not what those in the media put in. its all lyes go read the Quran and see wether it portrays what i personaly believe you think but people around you made you think.
Khan12078 1 year ago
@Khan12078 Nobody made anybody think anything other than the actions of your people and racist little Pakis like you.Your relgion stinks worse than the stale smell of your corner-shop from not clening it.
TheReado01 1 year ago
@Khan12078 heh, the quran clearly states what i said. the quran is a barbaric book, not played up by the media, but played up by the quran itself. its a satanic book and vile.
Delinexwow 1 year ago
@Delinexwow i guess you the person who doesnt actually like Islam immature.
Khan12078 1 year ago
@Khan12078 i have no issue with islam, i have issues with your ignorant beliefs and your fake god. i also have issues with how you treat women, and your brutality against humans.
Delinexwow 1 year ago
@Delinexwow well that does pretty much sum ups what i implied. and what Islam do you think creuelty to the extent to which you may remarks about how Muslim women are treated oh i know it all the media isent it. yes were terroists, hit the women. kill people for no apparent reason.
Khan12078 1 year ago
@Khan12078 Does your book say to kill anyone who leaves the faith?
Delinexwow 1 year ago
@Delinexwow well im not sure personally i dident ever think of leaving my faith so i couldent tell you right now.
Khan12078 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Khan12078 so are you admitting to me that *I* know the quran better than you do? you are telling me what your religion is about yet you dont even know what it says?
Delinexwow 1 year ago
@Khan12078 you dont have to answer that. the answer is yes, they do. that alone if i knew NOTHING else tells me your religion is a barbaric evil fucking sadistic religion, and the fact that your people DO follow through with it and we know it proves that. READ your fucking religion, its a vile evil book that is insane. YOU ARE DEMANDED BY ALLAH TO KILL ANYONE WHO LEAVES YOUR FAITH. ALLAH COMMANDS IT.
Delinexwow 1 year ago
@Delinexwow well so does chrisrtianity which states that any homesexuality of sorts the person must be killed too. Then i guess you mut be angry at christianity too right?
Khan12078 1 year ago
@Khan12078 youre right, christianity is just as barbaric and cruel as the quran...whats your point? just because christianity is just as bad that makes yours ok? so if i go out and stab a little girl and say "well this other guy shot a little girl...so mines not that bad"? my views on christianity has nothing to do with the validity of your holy book.
Delinexwow 1 year ago
have one meaning.
Khan12078 1 year ago
Q 1: Arabic words have a range of meanings A 1: well my friend centuries ago the English vocabulary would have words which would have a range of meaning and now the English Language is expanding its vocabulary therefore having one meaning for a certain word while the Arabic Language is stillas old and primitive at the time of the Phrophet, and since then not changed. e.g. such as in old english FOEST would mean fast, firm and strong, meaning 3 different meaning of words
Khan12078 1 year ago 2
Wow, it's funny to see comments from people trying to alter and lie about the text to prove something that is clearly not there. You keep shutting them down based on the actual text and knowing what you're talking about. Great job and keep calling them out on their BS philhellenes.
TekkaSage 1 year ago
mate am an ex muslim arab , quran is understand able in arabic and aint that hard and still ppl just ignore the truth and listen to stupid sheik who lie at them
beside in hadeth a guy ask mohd somthing
abo horaira : mohd tell me about everything
mohd says : everything created from water !
this hadeth is in saheh al bukari
--
2nd thing the earth has been created b4 the universe and it tokes 4 days out of the 6 and guss what ? the entire universe made in 2 days only lol
that is in quran
q8wizard 1 year ago
It says in Quran. 2:23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sūra like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true.
waqas072004 1 year ago
It says in Quran. This is Quran Challenge
17:88. Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur’ān, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.
11:13. Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than God.- If ye speak the truth!
waqas072004 1 year ago
dont forget to read verse: 51:48 and 51:49 too, which are both miracles human did not know it 1400 years ago. 51:49 And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.
it is a miracle itself because truly everything is created by pairs even the plants, fruits etc... it is the new science that has discovered this.
ARIAAI 1 year ago
philhellenes you are a kafir, kafir/infidels never learn, a kafir infidel is leaded by satan. until you clean your heart and read the quran with a clean heart
ARIAAI 1 year ago
Thanks for the upload. Good argument. Hope this proves that texts can be arbitrarily and deliberately interpreted to favor a preconceived notion...
kokopingo 1 year ago
This video is amazing! Thank you so much for making it! Thats EXACTLY what i've always wanted to tell those people! Although arguing with them is never useful :/ but thanks again :) I'm passing this video to everyone I know who might be interested!
hsweezytube 1 year ago
Here, got one:
By Abu Al Ashari:
"Kitāb al-ibāna 'an usūl al-diyāna"
He says the universe is GROWING LARGER, in the PRESENT tense. Tasfir-wa-Ashari, Basra, written in 929 AD.
Happy? or do you want more?
MrSMH16 1 year ago
@MrSMH16 YES. MUCH more! I want the exact name of the book in which he said this and the websites you are looking at. PM me with all your evidence. When can I see references to this statement. It seems remarkably obscure and hard to find considering it makes a good piece of evidence for Islamic miracle claims. Give me details of where my ex-muslim arab-speaking friends can see the actual texts (not altered translations). How did YOU find your reference?
philhellenes 1 year ago
the last part was just SWEET!
miraj0072004 1 year ago
Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? SURA 21 :30
9831345 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
How will my disciples define Big-Bang?
Heaven separated from the Earth is called as big bang*
lolxd
1GOD1ALLAH 1 year ago
How will my disciples define Big-Bang?
Heaven separated from the Earth is called as big band
lolxd
1GOD1ALLAH 1 year ago
Stupid man. You've got to know how to read the translation. Read it from a knowledgeable scholar who knows how the people at that time interpreted it as or how the people who have excelled in Arabic have translated it.
imaduddinsaqib 1 year ago
read the arabic moran. not english.
WorldIslamicOrder 1 year ago
Dark matter: theoreticly neutrino's and it makes up to about one fifth of all the mass in the universe they are thinking of using it for space ship fuel because there is no waste and the neutralino's upon impact with eachother would anhialate them selves and the other neutralino they impacted with there is dark matter in a nutshell
Dark energy
Is a large amount of gravity that creates a amount of mass pushing and pulling the gallaxies together thats dark energy in a nutshell
childofreletivity 1 year ago
this is good you read quran.but your science is false because big-bang and black hole really does not exit also your dark energy so why make laugh people. Google it or go to NASA web site.good work block comment.
italiatua 1 year ago
dude i luv ur vids, very interesting arguments, and really gives a whole another way of looking at things
just outta curiosity . what happened tht made u do all those vids?
darkenLife88 1 year ago
You are plain proof that the Quran is the Truth.
Don't test Allah. Allah is testing you. Stop mocking the Quran when you know deep down that its the truth.
mst9210 1 year ago
@mst9210 i'm not a follower of Islam but I do believe all religions do contain great truths that have been twisted through the centuries by various individuals to control populations.
theinfinitezero1 1 year ago
What's your theory on the structure of western language versus eastern language? they read words right to left but like us numbers left to right. of course we use the arabic numerical system but why did we switch the way we read words? there way of reading allows right brain access for words and left brain access for numbers which seems to make sense to me. that's why davinci read his notes via a mirror i'd say. you seem like a left and right brain guy, what do you think?
theinfinitezero1 1 year ago
It's much the same as those who changed the unicorn in the KJV of Job 39:9 to a wild ox when I suppose they finally realized that unicorns didn't actually exist. The retcons of religion...fantastic.
yermomsboxx 1 year ago
Hey philhellenes tell me,
Why did you block me like the hypocrite that you are? And it's nice that you used your other fake account "waytohell2" by pretending to be another person. Nice try buddy, nice try :)
S0meFA10 1 year ago
@S0meFA10 - You have no counter arguments. You have no intention of listening. You just insult people. You're the one with sock accounts not me. In short, you're a troll.
philhellenes 1 year ago
maybe mohamad was looking at the stars and saw the clouds move and thought it is -,- that piece of cloud moves that way and never comes back! who knows, people predicted we will go to the moon before we had even an idea of how to fly. even you and i can predict many things and surely one or 2 will hit the right spot ;)
waytohell2 1 year ago
the arabic word for "peace" is also the arabic word for "reload"
rabidchevy 1 year ago
All of them appeal to the irrational side of the human brain, and as such are unpredictably dangerous.
eldadevata 1 year ago
This video was rather funny.
I love it how patient you are, and how you appear to actually expect an intelligent response.
In your place I wouldnt. And not because of the fact that it is directed to Muslims.
Some of us like to think that this particular religion is the best example of fundamentalism and ignorance.
But I dont see it that way. All religions are the same in the end, no matter how peaceful they appear to be.
eldadevata 1 year ago
Anyone can write the word موسع
on google translate and see
what its translation !!
xluuuluuux 1 year ago
It said "expanded" (made big). That is past tense, meaning the expansion happened in the past. That is WRONG, because the expansion is STILL happening today. It should say "expanding". Also, if your claim is miraculous, then the Bible (another book of mythology) is MORE miraculous for it said the same 600 years earlier, in Isaiah 42:5: "Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out..."
It's all poetry. But you see miracles. Because you are easily fooled.
philhellenes 1 year ago 9
Poetry? Well it is now I suppose. It WAS a whole bunch of horrible, unrelentingly evil crap to begin with.
Modern societies just like to smooth out all that rough stuff.
Darkmage1293 1 year ago
@philhellenes in the verse it is " موسعون " not "موسع" i'm arabic and this word is clearly in Present Continuous (Progressive) Tense like expanding with ing at the end , now would you translate it in google to see for yourself look for "موسعون".and thank you for your respectful arguments we really appreciate it , because a lot of people just want to insult our religion .
mj4ever001 1 year ago
@mj4ever001 Taqqiyah. You're SUCH a liar. A non-Arabic speaker can be forgiven for a mistake. YOU cannot. It is not a mistake. It is a bare-faced lie. ANYONE can google the Sura 51:47 and check for themselves. NOT ONE translation before 1922 said "expanding" in the translation.
The only possible excuse for YOU is that modern Qur'ans have altered the arabic word used for 1400 years. And if THAT's the case then your whole religion is a sham for altering its holy text.
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes there is nothing called modern Qurans the original text is preserved and quran without any doubt is the same book that brought to us by our prophet ,with revelation from allah , the word mentioned in the verse is "موسعون" from the verb " وسع" if you look for " وسع" in google translation you"ll find this :
verb 1. Expand 2. Broaden 3. Extend 4. Develop 5. Widen
this is clearly the context of the big bang theory if not the same . don't smart ass and call me a liar.
mj4ever001 1 year ago
@mj4ever001 Tell me ONE English translation from before 1922 that uses "expanding" in Sura 51:47. Give me the translator's name and the approximate date of the translation. YOU CAN'T. So I know you are a liar. I don't have to be smart to know that.
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes i don't need a translation before or after 1922 ,but i'll look for one for you, because it is clear to me that the word mentioned is a verb in the present continuous tense ,it's originated from the verb "موسع" which clearly means to Expand .therfore the meaning of the word it EXPANDING.
mj4ever001 1 year ago
@mj4ever001 - You won't look because you know you won't find it.
3 translations of Sura 51:47 for you:
"With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace."
"We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof)."
"And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample."
One of the above is Yusuf Ali, an Islamic scholar. You know ancient Arabic better than him? Liar.
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes here another one M. Asad-- "AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
anyway translations are not reliable ,because the word of God can not be translate it by men correctly ,the meaning will be lost , you have to learn arabic for better understanding, you'll find that in the first page of any translated Quran .
mj4ever001 1 year ago
@mj4ever001
1. M. Asad ((1900–1992) did his translation in 1932, 3 years after Hubble told the world the Universe was expanding. And you would call this a "miracle"?
2. His "translation" is banned in Saudi Arabia, as it "deviates from the orthodox interpretation of some passages (according to Khaleel Mohammed in "Assessing English Translations of the Qur'an").
You're trying to make it SEEM you can show me an older translation that mentions expanding, WITHOUT actually doing it. That's lying.
philhellenes 1 year ago
@philhellenes
@philhellenes
man I don't know why you stressing yourself out over this matter, I am an arab and I don't need to make that big deal of an effort to understand what that verse says in the end that God is expanding (it), and nothing follows that word in the same verse, so it looks like it's not determined, but the context of the verse is talking about the "universe" in a way that the ancient people at the time wouldn't have a problem with it.
SilentG20 1 year ago
@philhellenes The user Klingschor explains many fallacies from Islamic Fundies.
I also thought that translating that verb as "expanding" was considered heretic in Saudi Arabia, but I might be wrong. Anyway there are too many absurdities in Coran to be considered a book on "science" other than a religious book.
HuanManwe 1 year ago
@philhellenes Alot of things written in the Bible are seemingly the wrong tense as well, but think about time in accordance to special relativity. Perhaps according to the center of the universe's frame of reference, the universe is no longer expanding. Perhaps the time it was writing about wasn't referring to us now, or from our frame of reference. Just a thought, not sure if it's right though.
TimJSwan89 1 year ago
im making a video doing that. Thank for the idea!
Zoaguyver 1 year ago
Here is what you asked for :
Book : [ Tafsir Bahr Al-Muheet ] .
Scholar : Abu Hayyan Al Andalusi .
Date: 753 H.
The word موسعون is in the present tense
Theword بنيناها is in the past tense .
" And it is We who have built the universe
with power ,and verily it is We who are
steadily expanding it ." quran [51:47].
xluuuluuux 1 year ago
Anyone can Google the older translations. They will not find "expanding" in there. I realise there is a big push to alter modern translations but as long as the older translations exist it is proof of Islam "retro-fitting" its "holy" texts meaning to fit modern science. And if the expansion was disproved tomorrow Islam would alter it back. Fact is NO Muslim scholar in the 1400 years before the big bang was discovered even SUGGESTED that the Universe MIGHT be getting bigger. THAT is why you lose.
philhellenes 1 year ago
And I ask all the Muslims here ..Do Not speak of that which you have No knowledge of.. you will give our friend here false information and sound ignorant leave this for a scholar, it is obvious he is interested about Islam otherwise he would make these videos or even read the translations..Lets just make Dua for him and pray that Allah guides him to the straight path..
bklynzig12 1 year ago
Oh huggable buddy, by the crusty toenails of Mohammad (PBUH), please, I beseech you, tell Allah that his followers are shaming Islam by lying, seemingly without end, and seemingly being as obnoxious as they can possibly be, and giving the impression to many non-Muslims that Islam is populated by some sick, backward, uneducated, dishonest, gullible, ignorant, unintelligent, and racist people. Why are the ex-Muslims the only truly friendly Muslims? Allah is most merciful, most hygienic.
philhellenes 1 year ago
my friend Phil here has a funny way of expressing a cry for help..May Allah guide you to the truth and I will pray and make Dua for you, And I would like for you to do the same..The whole aetheist thing is kind is sad..I know people can't be this lost. do you really feel everything just magically appeared..and answer this mr Big Bang..What happened 0.00000001 seconds before the big bang..(just curious) May ALLAH GUIDE YOU MY FRIEND
bklynzig12 1 year ago
My dear friend, if you make Dua for me, I shall make spaghetti for you. It's very tasty and filling. Magic? Brother, can you not see that you are the believer in magic? I believe in natural causes, laws and forces, things calculable and predictable with sufficient data. YOU are the one who presents to me "Allah did it" as your explanation for the Universe, yet when I ask "how?", you have NOTHING to say. I have dozens of possibilities to offer. May Allah fluff your pillow this very evening.
philhellenes 1 year ago
There is so much in the Quran that prodicts the future and predicted the past and gives us clues of what is to come and what will happen. The Quran says that if one of the proofs given or predictions given is not true then therefor the Quran is not true either. So My challenge is for you to find something that is not true.
IslamForUs2 1 year ago
@IslamForUs2
Hey bro, don't take this loser in the video seriously. He is just a immature jerk who likes to act like a 12 year old kid even though this guys is a grown man.
SomeFA10 1 year ago
@SomeFA10
oh right? and how are you different from the things you claimed he is right now?
your looking at a person who is asking you for a proof to your claim and thats all you can come up with ? how very mature of you to do sir. استخدم عقلك شوية
waytohell2 1 year ago
Yeah because when you see how mature that guy in the video is in his comments, then maybe you see why I say this. But I guess you need to look harder next time :)
SomeFA10 1 year ago
@SomeFA10
What? he sounded more mature to me than you did. he took in consideration that he is wrong. and asked you to provide something to prove YOUR claims (as a Muslim).
and you came back with, this guy is bla bla and hes immature bla cry cry.
the guy asked a question and your answer is your acting like a kid. huh maybe you need a class in logic or critical thinking.
it is obvious you either didn't see the video or just is stupid enough to not understand what is being said.
waytohell2 1 year ago
@waytohell2
You done yet? And please I'm acting like a kid? Jeez maybe you should calm down and get some rest you sad little boy :)
SomeFA10 1 year ago
@SomeFA10
lol i love it when you and people like you turn to tell me that i am the one who is angry -,- i am enjoying this actually, why would i be angry? if your stupid all i need to do is stay away from you in real life so i don't get infected :).
i am actually laughing at what ur saying because its so stupid, and the amazing thing is that you don't even know it..
waytohell2 1 year ago
@waytohell2
I never said that I was angry. And aren't you the one has done nothing but whine at me? Even right now by looking at your comments, it seems that you are the one who is pissed off and you try to cover it up by saying that you are laughing at me. I mean come on buddy :)
SomeFA10 1 year ago
@SomeFA10
huh, funny hehe i was just point the flaw of your comment. while all i heared from you was No answer what so ever and your best shot was "Jeez maybe you should calm down and get some rest you sad little boy :)"
i see no point in talking to you. have a nice one.
waytohell2 1 year ago
I like how they make predictions out of hiensight, lol. I totally agree with you. I ask Tell us something we don`t know, from in thier book, then we can test it.
peteq1972 2 years ago
i hope the guy in the video knows that the Quran is not supposed to be a book of science
ComeToTruth 2 years ago
Why do so many muslims claim that it is?
Malsipots 1 year ago
extending doesn't differ from expanding. may Allah guide
Quraniswisdom 2 years ago
So....you have the dishonesty to claim Islam DID know the Universe was expanding for 1400 years before science discovered it. Cool. :)
If the Arabic word used in the Qur'an clearly did mean expansion, Islam knew. If NOT, then it DID not.
So now, in your NEXT comment, you will give me the name of ONE Muslim scholar who said the Universe is getting bigger every day, in a book published before 1922. If you can't (AND YOU CAN'T) you will either accept your error, or waffle (you WILL waffle).
philhellenes 2 years ago
first of all, the dishonesty is yours, of rejecting a synonym, second you need to understand that no muslim would dare to say we have in the Qur'an said that universe is getting bigger every day, all it says in the Quran is that it is expanding, extending, getting bigger you may call it as you wish, but the meaning stays the same, we don't have to accept an error made up by you, which does not even exist neither claimed by any of us.
Quraniswisdom 2 years ago
Waffle.
philhellenes 2 years ago
Well i tell ppl thing stuff from the Quran and still they don't believe me. So how can we make any of you understand? The Quran says that there will be ppl keep denying the facts you come with. And btw do you think that the Quran will keep on telling stuff that wont come?
Cause who knows when the last day comes and the world will go back in time til the day ppl will fight with rock and sticks again(Also told be Eisenstein)
Gjen55 2 years ago
Quransnonwisdom,
My dear ignorant brain washed retard.
The verse you are refering to does not say "extending" it says extent
"...We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).... " (Surah 51:47). Pickthal
My garden may be VAST extent, but that deos not mean i will wake up in the morning to find it has EXPANDED
Muslims now have to resort to lieing and twisting the meaning of word to prove to THEMSELVES that the quran is from allah
quranisajoke1 2 years ago
may alah fuck you in the arse.
Malsipots 1 year ago
Has anyone yet noticed that all these videos full of hate are in full attack mode on Muslims and Islam?! Why is that? Lakum deenukum wal yadeen. (last verse in sura Kaferoon) meaning: you follow your religion and I will follow mine.
I consider an athiest like weed growing on the sides of my driveway. No purpose for life.
akbarwardak 2 years ago
No, only people who are hypersensitive and consider disagreement to be a form of hatred notice that. This was a very calmly and patiently presented point about how it is unjustified to claim scientific foreknowledge of the Big Bang from the Quran, especially as the person who actually DID make that discovery had probably never read the Quran, and no one who had been reading it for over a thousand years managed to offer that insight to the scientific community.
UppruniTegundanna 2 years ago 5
My life has plenty of pupose, take away your book of nonsense and your world will collapse. HA!!
Malsipots 1 year ago
Tak yah nak pok pok.... kencing ah atas cilaka tu ..tunggu ape ...
JonathanVin6 2 years ago