Exploring Fischer's Openings #3: Four Knights Game

[fishontilt64]

what do you do if you play bishop to c4 as fischer does and they counter with their bishop the b5? its really tough to combat- thoughts?

[chivo2468]

Why wouldn't black push the pawn at e on 1:58 ???? So white would lose one of his knoghts

[kikook222]

@chivo2468 Because Bishops are worth more than knights in an open game. You don't want to lose your Bishop unless you're getting considerable compensation, IE if the knight moved the queen would be lost. So in your example you could just move the knight being attacked by the pawn and let the bishop take giving you the edge when you reclaim it. That's just practicality, as for Fischer, he probably had a great defense against it!

[chillyrooster]

great video i wud like to see more games broken down like the way u did and short also like a football color commentater does watching the game with arrows and highlighting key spots

[shaolinmonk1991]

dude you can't take with the knight for that white bishop because if Kxd5 cxd5 Qxd5+ Be6 solve the problem and you end up just with the black bishop so sorry thumbs down

[BigGus87]

At 158 e pawn should push forward making the knight move.

[Svecify]

@2:34 Qf7 would protect the lightsquare bishop, so that only the darksquare bishop would fall.

[tabidzi]

that trick is bad because when night retakes bishop d5 is winning\

[jrobichess]

@tabidzi That's assuming your opponent plays correctly to the end. In a blitz game, it's tough to say.

[rhymeMC]

But why not Qf7 after the possible Qxd5+? So the fischer's queen would be in a not so good position.

[grinchychristmas]

he doesn't get both bishops because the white bishop blocks but he does get the black bishop

[iCleopatra79]

jrobi UR THE Best thx alot BTw ur mission was success ( bcz i think u had a purpose of contributing to earth ) That mission was a success :P

[iCleopatra79]

jrobi UR THE Best thx alot 

[Sterlin18]

what happens if the g4 bishop takes f3 horse instead of the horse? Its at 2:05 in the video - what is the best continuation after this move?

[chaflan91]

hey man your videos are very good

i have learned alot from them keep up

the good work =]

[hernan922]

2:34, u say the king most move in order to avert the check, but what would happen if he blocked with either bishop e6 or queen f7 or queen e6?

[HarryPotterDude1000]

@hernan922 Then white takes the black bishop on a5.

[bodypowr]

Great video! Keep up the good work!

[Shoarmaboer20]

This line with Bxf7+ is bad for white. But Fischer got away with it cuz he is a genious. I had a Simul last monday by IM Niels Bos and I beat him in 19 moves with black in this line.

But nice vid!

[convictcounty]

sorry i mean black keeps knight on f6 not f3!

[convictcounty]

what if black doesnt take the bait and keeps knight on f3 eg instead opting to form a fianchetto with g6? i cant see any gain being made by white in this instance other than black loses a move and fails to castle, but he gains a bishop

[bushmaster9999able]

great tip thx son

[dabeethoven]

why fritz says that it isn't a strong move ? it says its like a blunder, but i dont see the reason... that reminds me that some grandmaster said that if you're 1.3 pawns down in fritz you dont care about it in real chess...

[cirosuperiore]

openings in spite what anyone says makes NO difference...just play and dont worry about the openings...be flexible...

[ThaRazor1990]

Indeed whisper, this opening has been refuted nowadays. Anyways nice vids for new playeres!

[whisperwaIk]

Ah, the problems with this video! JRobi's analysis is just plain wrong (he also admits not playing the opening much) - Fischer plays a move, Fischer is like God, and therefore whatever Fischer plays must be good.

In JRobi's version of the Four Knights, White actually has a slight minus! - lost the center, bad knight on h3, and conceded the bishop pair. In fact the whole 4. Bc4!? enterprise is considered dubious. Better is 4. Bb5 or 4. d4, as is more common nowadays.

[StreetStar5]

fischer is a beast son!

[abbenjammin]

in a check position, you don't always need to move the king

[baulfraud]

unbelievable insight, gaur, já gaur !

[khdwkid]

honestly, i don't like my knights as much as bishops. I'd rather lose a knight than a bishopl

[ddstar]

@khdwkid that says alot about you, meaning you are more of a late game player

[khdwkid]

how so?

[woutmannetje]

knights are considered to be better than bishops in a "closed game", while the bishops are superior in an "open game". The later the game, the less closed the position is.

[khdwkid]

thanx! now I get it! so........apperently I'm a late game player....

[lTHRICEl]

Then he would have lost only one bishop.

[barragehat]

yes but black would still lose the black squared bishop.

[Shoarmaboer20]

If Qxd5, cant white just play Be6 and keep his bishop, and maybe only be down a pawn.

[leadstring66]

Fischer was a beast

[DOGGEATDOGG03]

@leadstring66 he lost to a computer. haha

[Mathman3025]

short and sweet clip.

Fischer had a smart comeback. trick worth watching and memorizing.

[Mathman3025]

nicely done

[wildernisable]

Hi Jrobi,

at 2:36 Be6 or Qf7 only wins one bishop.

[rsmasterkeith]

Its actually 2 pawns and a bishop (5 points of material for 3 points) and Qf7 on

3:06 is a good defensive move that prevent the lost of material and the lost of the bishop "pair" in an opening position.

[YOURMOM230]

if u look at it.... if he moved something else.... and white moves knight to e6.... he is gonna trade a knight for a queen.... queen moves... Rg7 checkmate... if he moves say pawn g6 black simply looses queen... but queen e8 blocks the knight from going to e6... better than Qc7 because black pins B to King trying to make things sticky for white

[Shoarmaboer20]

Very nice game played by fischer.

[jrro0t]

dude on 1:57 , couldnt the pawn on e5 push to attack the knight

[mormril]

You should watch Matt's (Greencastleblock) video on this line. He thinks that it is actually perfectly fine for black if white plays Bxf7. In fact, even slightly better for black and I agree. I've played a few games as black in that position and I have 4 wins and 1 loss.

[MrFunny1972]

An excellent response to capture the pawn with the bishop! I have fallen for the pawn fork in the past and now I know how to avoid it if that situation arises again. Thanks Jrobi!

[Pedropieman]

I hate the four knight game, it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo annoying... :(

[badmofker]

will have to keep this one in mind, good vid!

[Eduthemurder]

fischer doesnt necessarily wins both bishops, Ames could block with the queen or the white bishop himself :D

[MikedaSnipe]

I rarely question GM level play, but wtf was with this game? Ames played terribly, fischer played better then I ever could with the exception of Bxf7+?. The lack of criticism makes me raise an eyebrow at you jrobi.

[EcstaCiiCCChaK]

Eh, I wouldn't say he played terribly... he did rather sloppy in some situations during this game, but I think he did fairly well overall.

[bassieeee7]

that move from Fisher was really amazing, great vid

[Hubi277]

I love your videos!I love chess!

[untouchable58]

i new to chess and im learning from reading, where can i find videos on fischer??

[starper277]

This 5.Bxf7+ line favors black. Ames played badly and made it easy for 12 year old Fischer. An improvement to this example is instead of 12... Nxf3 to play Bxf3 For example: 12... Bxf3 13.gxf3 Qf6! black generates activity for his pieces. 14.Kf1 Re8 15.Rg1 Kh7 16.Rg3 Rg8 or: 14.Be3 d4! 15.Bd2 Re8 16.Kf1 Bd6 and black is doing very well.

[MoreToleranceNow]

Agreed. jrobi does great videos, but this particular line predates Fischer by quite a bit. Good explanation re: NxP, though.

[MrFedel]

Qf7 at 3:02 saves 1 bishop but still, 1 free pawn plus bishop is great.

[Trey243]

At 2:30, after the queen grabs the pawn putting the king in check he has two pieces available to throw in front of her. A queen trade offer or a bishop supported by the queen on the diagonal forcing the queen off of it. So Black would lose only one bishop, not both no matter what do to a check chain.

Makes me curious as to black's next move.

Your videos are great though keep it up!

[kaarleenzz]

I noticed that as well.

[jrobichess]

Fischer's line probably factored winning one pawn primarily in that position. Anything else would be gravy with bad play from black. Good call on the alternate moves, white still wins some material but not a terrible amount.

[imsoworried]

plz can u post a vid on guico piano with traps and stratgety

[HeadShotOwnage]

after fork trick...Bxd5? (taking back the pawn)

[srn347]

Then Nc3(peeling back the bishop to attack the center again and gain a tempo attacking the queen.

[HeadShotOwnage]

exactly

[Carabin33fr]

BF7 after the fork trick isnt too bad for black.

[kinggoatpete]

your videos are awesome

keep 'em coming.

[jrobichess]

Thanks for the comment and checking out the vid King!

[ad2344]

Excellent analysis...keep it up.

[jrobichess]

Thanks ad2344!

[jabrightlefthook]

@jrobichess thanks for this i never understood how black always got the advantage when in the four knights game but i see now the bishop sacrifice was the key to taking away the power thanks again

[laputadetumadre11]

@jabrightlefthook the bishop sacrifice doesn't work out very well if your opponent knows what he is doing. Best to avoid the 4 knights altogether. Fischer won because his opponent wasn't very good.

[guyfawkesbeer]

you hold too much responsibility here on youtube when hundreds of people want different videos from you.

[acolwe]

Hey, great stuff. What I've been looking for. There's a defense whose name I don't know but hoped you might make a video for one day. White opens with king's pawn to E4 and then black responds with a pawn on C5. Can you discuss this some day? Thanks!

[jrobichess]

Will definitely check into it - thanks for the comment!

[airbourne777]

man how do ppl remember all the variations to openings i mean theres hundreds of openings which can potentially affect a game.

[jrobichess]

There are definitely a lot. I refer back to my vids and the internet when I don't play one for awhile. I have noticed over time though that it's getting easier to recall the stronger moves in certain positions, even if I forget the actual name.

[luke19631963]

I read about the line Gohma used in a book when I was a kid to even the material out. Adult Fischer certainly favored bishops over knights. Anyway great vids and I used the Fischer Sicillian opening against an opponent the other night on FICS and won. The opening moves were almost verbatim.

[jrobichess]

That's awesome Luke! Thanks for checking out the video!

[luke19631963]

Thanks a heap and keep the great vids coming if you can. Chess is a wonderful game and the interent has opened up so many opportunites to learn more with vids like yours. :)

[theuppercut]

damn man i cant play on fics because i cant register, it says i need a emailadress that does not allow multiple free accounts.. any suggestions?

[jrobichess]

The best bet is to use the real email address given to you from your internet provider. FICS doesn't allow hotmail type emails to try and stop people from having multiple accounts.

[Tiwaking]

This is great! I've now learnt two new responses. The "Gohma Variation" and the "UnorthodoxPlayer Attack" :D

[jrobichess]

Chess is wonderful isn't it. =)

[Gohma]

The whole line runs 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bc4 Nxe4 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4.

[jrobichess]

I see what you're saying now Gohma! I plugged the lines into Fritz. The computer had a solid victory with your line, and fluxuating results with wins to white and black with Fischer's. When I get the most current version of Fritz I will post a video reply to this one. Thanks for the comments!

[jrobichess]

Could you put the whole move sequence in from the beginning? I am wondering what move white plays on move 4 once black takes out the second knight to get into the four knights game. I just want to make sure I understand your point. Thanks for the comments Gohma, I am enjoying the dialogue.

[jrobichess]

Actually just post the move after the second black knight comes out. Up to that point its pretty clear what the move sequence is, but I am curious as to what the next move for white would be leading into the line you are talking about.

[Gohma]

I'm not sure why think black is winning a pawn. After 4...Nxe4 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 material is even and we have an = position. Theory considers this to be white's best against 4...Nxe4.

[Gohma]

5.Bxf7+ is a BAD move no matter who is playing it. Black losing castling is of little relevance as the king is in no danger. On the contrary after 5...Kxf7 6.Nxe4 d5 black has complete central control, the bishop pair, and a strong initiative. Quite simply advantage to black. Fischer did play bad openings from time to time in his younger days ;).

[jrobichess]

It's definitely interesting that's for sure, so what would you recommend when black comes in for that pawn? The bishop protecting the pawn seems to tighten white's options down, and moving the queen blocks in the bishop. There is the other option of letting the pawn go - but if it's a good match that pawn can be very decisive.

[Gohma]

Woops, looks like I was wrong. I just looked up the game and it was played in 1955, when Fischer was only 12 or 13. I'm sure he was looking back on this game in horror just 3 years later when he became a GM.

[jrobichess]

Not sure 12 or 13 years old is bad when it comes to Fischer. =)

I think his bishop move making material even and preventing king side castling is a solid choice just as long as white is careful of the moves that follow. Thanks for the comments and checking out the video Gohma!

[jrobichess]

The alternatives are to take that pawn back with the knight and get the pawn fork, or simply let go of the pawn in the beginning of a match.

[Gohma]

I've never seen this game before but I'll guess it was played in a simul. 4...Nxe4 does not win any material for black, and objectively white's best IS 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 =. 5.Bxf7 is a vastly inferior move that Fischer only used because he knew his opponent was much weaker. Black is practically winning in the line given by UnorthodoxPlayer.

[UnorthodoxPlayer]

as a note for anyone who plays this opening for black if you ever find yourself against this Bxf7 line after 7.Ng5+ Kg8 8.d4 h6 9.Nh3 then the immediate Bxh3 followed by e4 moving the knight gives black significant compensation for the king position which could be remedied at any time by Bd6 Kh7 connecting the rooks.

[jrobichess]

Nice line leading to some compensation for king placement Unorthodox!

[nhat8121]

is it a good idea to know so many openings when starting out? I think I would rather know a couple of openings well. Learning the technicality of the middle and end games would definitely help make you better.

[jrobichess]

When I was looking into that very question, I found many people recommend to pick an opening and stick with it until you learn it in and out. It always helps to look at the variations that can happen in terms of defences to used against the selected opening as well.

[narutoluis]

=D ok thanks

[narutoluis]

i like to see scandinavian,please put a game using the aperture

[jrobichess]

Will definitely add that to the list Narutoluis! Thanks for checking out the video!

[andsanp]

nice!

[jrobichess]

Thanks Andsanp - when I first started playing and got into the four knights position I always seemed to come out a pawn behind so I was excited when I found this line from Fischer!