This State Trumpet stop on 50-inches of wind sounds like the the Theatre Organ "Serpent" stop. Both have the very "thin" and bright sound. I think the Serpent stop seems to have more "crack" in the sound which sounds like a rip saw cutting through sheet metal. The "Bugel Battalia" is another stop in this loud, bright, and thin sounding organ stop family.
@deei2 The Cathedral was rededicated almost 7 years after the devastating December, 2001 fire in the North Transcept. A 4 year cleaning/rehabilitation project finished before the 67th anniversary of the original Cathedral dedication service on November 30th, 1941. The 1941 service celebrated the completion of the full length of the Cathedral. The 2008 rededication service was a rebirth for the Cathedral's cleaned interior.
During the Recessional a few of the Celebrants stop to greet a member of the Congregation who is seated just in front of the camera, who is that person?
I have a question: Is the Episcopalian Church considered catholic (as in the Episcopalian Catholic Church) or protestant? I know it didn't form as a part of the reformation but as a result of disagreement between Henry VIII and the Pope. Episcopalianism, especially the ritual, fascinates me because it is almost a direct copy of liturgical Roman Catholic celebrations.
@Jacobre156 The Anglican Church as a community is closely tied to the Roman Catholic Church in ritual, since the Liturgies were an important part to all English Christians since before the Schism brought about by Henry VIII. It is NOT, however, part of the ROMAN Catholic Church. It is part of the 'catholic' (from the Greek, meaning "Universal") church, in that it is one of the many Christian Communities of faith.
@Jacobre156 The Episcopal Church, however, although now in FELLOWSHIP with the Anglican Church, is not under the SUPREME AUTHORITY of the Anglican Church. It had to split from its Anglican Sister when the colonies severed political ties with England (If they hadn't, the priests would still have had to answer to the king, who appoints the Archbishop of Canterbury, and leader of the Anglican Church--and therefore wouldn't have been COMPLETELY independent from the monarchy).
Been in many churches, but have visited one famous Basilica and three famous Cathedrals:
Saint Peters in Rome, Saint Patricks, Saint John The Divine in New York and the Cathedral of Madrid Spain. All have their own distinctive beauty and Architectural features that make them famous.
It's a matter of opinion..and opinions are like belly buttons..everyone has one...I will always believe that St. Pat's is a much more beautiful worship space...St. John's is ok, but it's dark, gray and dingy...sorry if that disappoints you...
@oofahman When was the last time you visited St. John's? Have you been there since the cleaning? It isn't dark, grey and dingy any longer....Did you actually watch this video and my other videos of the rededication in 2008?
@oofahman Amazing how alot of people - including me - felt God's presence in that "dark, gray and dingy" place, especially when the light hit those stained glass windows just right....go figure.... :)
One of the great Cathedrals in New York City and the World, Saint John the Divine exhibits it's famous Gothic Architecture with an incredibly powerful Trumpet Organ. Magnificent.
All this discussion of light Catholic, etc., regardless - it was nice to see a Roman Catholic cardinal (retired NYC Archbishop, Cardinal Egan) in both the entrance procession and the recessional. I would so love to go there some day.
The State Trumpet is quite amazing, which is more than can be said of the liturgical dancers which personally do nothing for me. The Episcopal church as an institution is in a dire state - its catholicity is seriously in question. Two thuribles should usually only be used in processions of the Blessed sacrament!
for hildawhitby, They had a huge fire and a restoration of the building which was what this rededication was celebrating. My guess is that much of the art work is still being cleaned or restored. Very costly in time and treasure.
@jockboy69 Is the Church of Rome also a zoo? Check Catholic News Agency for an article about an assassin posing as a liturgical dancer in the Sudan. It's a recent article, and confirms that the Vatican allows its use in Africa. Further, many other denominations have liturgical dance. BTW, I'm not a fan of the practice or the streamers but you'll need a different cudgel to bash my church.
@brassspitoon Yes, the RC church is pretty much a zoo as well. As far as needing something to bash your church, I already did, and it seemed to have hit a sore spot.
Oh well, zoo or no, none of this is the end of the world. I'll get over it.
Yes, St. John The Divine is an Episcopal cathedral - didn't you know that Episcopalians consider themselves 'light-Catholics'? Very similar to RC processions, especially for special events...
@livzdave No, it is Roman Catholics who refer to us Episcopalians or Anglicans as 'light Catholics' or 'Catholic light'. Actually, the Anglican Church is the bridge church or denomination between the Catholics and Protestants with our 'high' (Catholic), 'low' (Protestant) and 'broad' (combination of the two) parishes and forms of worship.
Well that is absurd...there is only ONE worship, not broad or whatever...a Bridge Church? a person is either Roman Catholic (or other rites of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Catholic, Coptic, etc.) or that person is not...If you are NOT in union with the Roman Catholic Church, then you are Protestant...it's black and white and as simple as that. All this talk of a bridge church is just plain BS...
@codeman2008 That's really true! My church is an Anglo-Catholic church and to be honest, I think our service is much more Roman Catholic than the actual Roman Catholics.
@codeman2008 There was a time saying or writing "The Anglican Church is the English Catholic church" would have been fighting words. Only in recent years, the Episcopal Church in the U.S. drop "Protestant" from its name. As an life-long Anglican, not once did I ever hear the English Anglican church refer to as the 'English Catholic Church'. While the Anglican and Lutheran denominations share a common lineage with the Roman Catholic faith, they are not Catholic in the Roman sense of the word.
Officially the Anglican church is 'Catholic and reformed', it is Catholic in that it's roots come from the original Church, in the same sense that the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Catholic Church are Catholic. The Lutheran Church is not Catholic in this sense, they broke from the RC church over issues of faith, enable to reform and change. The English Church did NOT break from the Church of Rome for this reason, and though it has been reformed, it is still Catholic in a way.
The Anglican church is not apostolic...it was founded by a mere mortal man, Henry the VIII...he broke from union with Rome because Rome would not allow him to get an annulment, so he got ticked off at the Pope at that time and started his own church. When someone 'founds' their own Church, it is NOT Apostolic (a direct descendant of the Apostles) but a man-made organization. Only the RC Church can trace it's founding back to Christ. Study the history and writings of the early church fathers.
@oofahman .....lol I kinda don't think so! The church was already there and established; Henry the 8th hijacked it and took it over. Besides, don't believe in anything made by man as all great religions today were. The're crooked and controlling. Really have nothing to do with God.
@59swl No - they are catholic in the small 'c', i.e., universal church aspect. Romans, Eastern churches (both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox), the Anglican communion and Lutherans are ALL small "C" catholic churches.
I just had a visit to New York and visited the Cathedral for the first time in a long time. Does anyone know WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLACE? It's like they stripped it of all artwork that could actually be moved. The large crucifix and Black Madonna in the Narthex - gone. The statue of St. Francis, the wolf, the buffalo - gone. The Holocaust Memorial - gone. The large brass artifact that holds the Book of Remembrance is there - you can't move THAT - but there is no BOOK in it anymore!
There was a huge fire in the Cathedral in December 2001 or 2002, I forget which... There was a lot of damage to the gift shop, some of the artwork and the organ... This service was the first with the restored organ. They had been using a substitute while the organ was being repaired. The cathedral which had been "half closed" for repairs was open completely for the first time also in this service.
the people near whoever is recording this are so busy talking during bruce's improv, completely and utterly RUDE...AND they can't even sing in time with the organ especially on the last verse...
Thank you livzdave for posting these videos of this magnificent restored Aeolian Skinner Organ. It is truly awesome!! I can only hope to one day visit this beautiful cathedral.
Also extend thanks to the FDNY heroes and all their fellow comrades for what they have endured not only through 9/11 but every day of their lives! Bravo to you from Canada!
Playing in this place is so frickin' awesome! And you actually don't hear the state trumpet from the console much at all...actually, you don't hear it at all over full organ...yet it's such a loud stop. That building is just amazing.
I mean no disrespect when I say this, but with such a beautiful church, an amazing organ, I think they need desperately a soloist to go along with it....a rich baritone or a mezzo....
Most Anglican churches don't use any vocal soloists during a 'sequence' hymn such as this....I know the Catholic church frequently uses vocal soloists during most of the service.
@maraljan Most Episcopal church musicians and congregations are strongly against soloist leaders, or cantors. They ruin the balance of congregational singing, we all sing as one, as IT SHOULD BE!
@maraljan A church such as this great cathedral is not a concert hall. Although the unchurched or people from other church or faith traditions may feel the need to incorporate soloists in such in a liturgy. Anglicans, as a rule, do not.
@maraljan A church such as this great cathedral is not a concert hall. Although the unchurched or people from other churches or faith traditions may feel the need to incorporate soloists in such in a liturgy. Anglicans, as a rule, do not.
I would absolutely love to see this place. It's huge! The State Trumpet, being two blocks away from the console, can speak over everything else! Would love to see it. Collegiate organ student.
You have no idea. I live in Washington, am Episcopalian and go to our cathedral from time to time. SJTD is much much larger. And our cathedral is 6th in size in the world. The stained glass windows in St. John are incredible, but you're right- the organ takes the cake. I swear if I had a toupee and was near the front, it would fly off my head at the blast of the trumpet pipes. There is no way to describe the sound. By all means, go. It's a real pilgrimage.
Is this WNC? Yes, it's one thing to look at it on YT but to be there is almost like learning the organ all over again! I would believe it, that the trumpets can do that! How's the organ reno going at WNC?
Oh no !! This is St. John the Divine (SJTD)... I was comparing it to Wash. Cathedral - I hate calling our cathedral "National Cathedral". It's the Cathedral Church of St. Peter and St. Paul. Not sure of the status of the organ here. I'm just glad St. John the Divine has been able to get back on its feet. Now if they can just finish it. The transepts are still to be built as well as the towers.
Very true! I was surprised to see that St. John the Devine is still incomplete! The organ is great in that lovely space. I have a Sts. Peter and Paul by where I live! It's got a huge Walker.
Yeah, I know, I was replying to another person's comment, I should have been more specific. I wanted to know if the church HE was talking about was WNC.
i love how worship can be such an artistic, spiritual, physical and emotional act. People coming together, singing, praying, and involved is what it's all about! :)
Mefactor, since you've been here twice, we Episcopalians hold some fascination for you. An inability to question, challenge & reconsider anything, including theology indicates a shallow faith, not a strong one. Christian scripture asserts a support of slavery, does that mean it must be codified then? No. We understand scripture to be a living document, & that it must be read in context. If you believe in a literal interpretation you have turned Christianity into a sort of idol worship.
NO actually i am a life long anglican with a formal christian education....But thankyou for your concern.your facination should be with the tec being unable to affirm basic christian tenants.God is big but, he is GOD. "The god of our understanding" gives us to much control to do and say what we want.God starts to look like "ME" Over the last 2000 years through apistolic succession and the writing of the church fathers we have a good idea of what Christianity should look like it is not the TEC.
By the way, I've never been pressured to drop a big wad of money on the Church. And we don't wonder if some of it is going to pay off hundreds of sexual abuse claims. Neither do we assume that it will be going to fund a new jet, vacation home, or huge spending allowance for the "preacher". But I'm sure you'll be sanctimonious enough to correct our ways.
you can say what you want and be who you want but the faith and the creeds are self explanditory. if the tec cannot affirm those, then what the use of church but to make you feel good and be self justification. Read the church fathers.....
AND ..... i am not fooled...... you don't have to drop a big wad of cash. the tec has never hurt for money..I have worked at the diocese, and provincial level for the old episcopal church...PLEASE..spare me the self sanctification bit. lets not get into this.
Oh but on some level you ARE asking to "get into this". If you want to entertain an image of the RC church that the majority of church historians dismiss, then YOU believe what YOU want. Your comment "The god of our understanding" gives us to (sic) much control to do and say what we want" is revelatory. This is called 'projection'. We project attributes to god . If one feels guilty about certain emotions then those feelings are projected to god to validate their prejudicial ideas. (cont)
You ever seen where the Dean of John the Divine lives? A mansion in a wooded area of Manhattan's Upper West Side is one hell of a perk. And they just laid off workers.
If you are then, afraid of & guilty about your personal freedom, then you will create a very legalistic god full of wrath. The creeds were written because even the synoptic gospels are inconsistent. There is a deep theological reason why for instance, there is no nativity narrative in Mark's gospel. His theology is 'adoptionistic'.
We Anglicans have no time for blind faith. I know many RC priests who feel exactly the same way. If it is a security blanket you are looking for, then fine.
I AM AN ANGLICAN...and have been for the last 30 years. The nature of Jesus Christ is not relative to how guilty you feel if your friend comes out of the closet and gives you an ultimatum. love the person not what they do. and don't make excuses for them. in short Christianity is not "POP culture" I do not feel guilty. But the episcopal church seems to change the rules so that there is no harm no guilt.
you need to read some books. i will give you a list..but may i suggest the bible first.
Somehow the glory and grandeur...reverence and awe...of the RC and Anglican services must be harmonized with the actual Teachings of Jesus. Please reconsider the eucharistic liturgy and Book of Common Prayer...as well as the Old Testament God...and pagan symbolism. A lot of this goes back into ancient Babylon, Egypt, and Rome...and possibly all the way back to Lucifer. I love the organ, brass, singing...and the RC and Anglican people...but please rethink everything. It may be very painful.
The grandeur, and awe dates to the early roman church when the church was recognized as the religion of rome. I am assuming that you go to a non-denominational church...i would first remind you that before the reformations (there were 2 or 3) there was one church and it looked alot like this. The prayer book is 75+ % straight scripture quotation.... The church must look at the bible and take it to heart, have an individual relationship with Christ, and not make disconnects about the faith.
How about a Bach prelude...a procession...and nothing but hymns...a recession...and a Widor postlude? Research the pagan Dagon fish heads some of the clergy in this video are wearing. Jordan Maxwell has some insights regarding this. The eucharist involves human sacrifice. Look at the human sacrifices in paganism and satanism. Some of the ancient roots and traditions are problematic... but it is very, very difficult to throw out the bathwater...without throwing out the baby. I'm very conflicted.
OK put this in simple terms...UPC is not a does not believe in the trinity..yes. The oneness of the godhead stuff is for the birds.. SO..if i were to use the imagery of a BBQ rib to illistrate the "oneness of the godhead" you would say that "the bone is the meat is the sauce....what a bunch of crap. read the creeds. the creeds were written by those who were of early apostolic succession. Also read the church fathers. I think that you would be enlightened by it.
it must be harmonised with the bible, not pop culture MY POINT EXACTLY! However the traditions of the church are important too! they have been constant for the past 1900 years. what ever you believe in in terms of christianity was shaped by what you would ask people to throw away. By the way the most common pagan symbol used today is the Christmas tree....i have never found a christmas tree in the bible.
there is nothing wrong with tradition as long as you are not worshiping that not Christ.
I love the organ/acoustic match. The trompettes are unrivaled. I'm going to listen to organ and choral music while I study my 1928 BCP. Thank-you for posting this.
Best organ in the USA. If only they didn't use those ridiculous liturgical dancers! They make a laughingstock of the liturgy by taking the meaning of liturgical dance totally out of context.
@Geigemann88 That a matter of opinion. It all depends on what you are looking for. I tend to like Riverside and St. John the Divine.oth are wonderful instruments and are the best of their time time.
I agree with you that the "liturgical" DANCERS NEED TO JUST go away!
A great celebration! I think the whole thing is marvelous, so open and very un-stuffy. The place is so enormous, but we need places and things like this to remind us of the enormous diversity and vastness of creation and humanity...to remind us that no matter how great a thing we build that the world and universe is wonderous and unfathomable.
There will be a series of rededication recitals to correspond with the 100th anniversary of the Organ over the next 18 months or so. The first recital is scheduled for sometime this fall. I'm hoping to be able to record some of these recitals myself, using professional equipment.
Is that a serious comment? It is an Episcopal church. The liturgical dance (while not my favorite) and the pennant waving are no stranger than many Roman Catholic Sicilian feast day marches with elaborate floats and "relics" in the mix. Your Bible Belt prejudice is showing.
The use of relics is a practice dating back to the earliest days of the Church. I am curious to know how "liturgical dance" has any connection whatsoever to liturgy. I am Catholic myself, and I know there are obvious differences in liturgy/doctrine between the Catholic and Episcopal Churches, but these two churches are not that far apart, at least liturgically speaking. "Liturgical dance" is a modern innovation that has no place in solemn, serious, dignified liturgy.
In the ancient Byzantine church, the buildings were circular, and the service was performed as a ballet, with an inner and outer circle of people. The climax of the service was the kiss, between to men representing Christ and St Paul, I think. I was reading a book of Byzantine architecture, which described the early service, to explain the significance of the central dome, which was where the kiss happened.
Right about the liturgical dancers; when I was teaching at a Roman Catholic school back in the 1980s, I had an argument with a male student who was no small chap, and he almost backed me into a corner because he was so conservative--against liturgical dance! I had to send him to the office--lol!
Anywho, this is a beautiful restoration, and I hope to get there soon and visit and perhaps play this instrument.
WOW!!!! I have waited years for the Great Organ to finally be restored and sounding greater then ever before!! I have all the organ CDs from here...and I reallllly hope they do another album now that the restoration is complete...
Sounds like most of the singers in the congregation are true Episcopalians (that's a Methodist joke ;-). Another Methodist joke: what do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian? Someone who goes around knocking on doors for no apparent reason.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This awesome instrument has always been a favorite! The CD by Paul Haley is AMAZING as is Dorothy Papadakus CD. Pomp and Circumstance at its ABSOLUTE BEST!
Outstanding. I could do without the liturgical dancers and streamers, but otherwise, just stunning. I don't think I've ever seen a bishop be first in a procession. That was a new one.
Did anyone record (Audio or video) in the introit of the evensong later that day at 4. I had a solo and my mom missed it by 10 minutes. If I could find it, it would make her day! thanks.
This State Trumpet stop on 50-inches of wind sounds like the the Theatre Organ "Serpent" stop. Both have the very "thin" and bright sound. I think the Serpent stop seems to have more "crack" in the sound which sounds like a rip saw cutting through sheet metal. The "Bugel Battalia" is another stop in this loud, bright, and thin sounding organ stop family.
JoePeterzak 4 months ago
What is a "Rededication Service"? However, this is just beautiful.
deei2 4 months ago
@deei2 The Cathedral was rededicated almost 7 years after the devastating December, 2001 fire in the North Transcept. A 4 year cleaning/rehabilitation project finished before the 67th anniversary of the original Cathedral dedication service on November 30th, 1941. The 1941 service celebrated the completion of the full length of the Cathedral. The 2008 rededication service was a rebirth for the Cathedral's cleaned interior.
livzdave 4 months ago
Liturgical abuse in whose opinion? Are they not dancing before the Lord?
BigDaddyOldDude 5 months ago
why are there liturgicla abuses, such as dancers or flags porters?
richardjl41 5 months ago
I think the name Raymond is mentioned.
Bigu47 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Can anybody identify who the seated person in front of Camera is, some of the recessional members greet him?
Bigu47 5 months ago
It was a thrill for me to see Archbishop Dolan and Cardinal Eagan in this video.
BigDaddyOldDude 6 months ago
@livzdave
During the Recessional a few of the Celebrants stop to greet a member of the Congregation who is seated just in front of the camera, who is that person?
Bigu47 8 months ago
Why Are There Women Dancing Around. This Looks Like Some Weird NO New Age Mass
coldlittle 1 year ago
I have a question: Is the Episcopalian Church considered catholic (as in the Episcopalian Catholic Church) or protestant? I know it didn't form as a part of the reformation but as a result of disagreement between Henry VIII and the Pope. Episcopalianism, especially the ritual, fascinates me because it is almost a direct copy of liturgical Roman Catholic celebrations.
Jacobre156 1 year ago
@Jacobre156 The Anglican Church as a community is closely tied to the Roman Catholic Church in ritual, since the Liturgies were an important part to all English Christians since before the Schism brought about by Henry VIII. It is NOT, however, part of the ROMAN Catholic Church. It is part of the 'catholic' (from the Greek, meaning "Universal") church, in that it is one of the many Christian Communities of faith.
hleerose 1 year ago
@Jacobre156 The Episcopal Church, however, although now in FELLOWSHIP with the Anglican Church, is not under the SUPREME AUTHORITY of the Anglican Church. It had to split from its Anglican Sister when the colonies severed political ties with England (If they hadn't, the priests would still have had to answer to the king, who appoints the Archbishop of Canterbury, and leader of the Anglican Church--and therefore wouldn't have been COMPLETELY independent from the monarchy).
hleerose 1 year ago
Why ruin the Liturgy with the liturgical dancers and the weird wavy/spinny things?
istgone 1 year ago
Been in many churches, but have visited one famous Basilica and three famous Cathedrals:
Saint Peters in Rome, Saint Patricks, Saint John The Divine in New York and the Cathedral of Madrid Spain. All have their own distinctive beauty and Architectural features that make them famous.
Bigu47 1 year ago
Such a big and glorious building, but St. Patrick's is much more "beautiful"
oofahman 1 year ago 3
@oofahman Very hard to compare St. Pat's with St. John The Divine...I disagree with your "beautiful" statement...
livzdave 1 year ago 2
It's a matter of opinion..and opinions are like belly buttons..everyone has one...I will always believe that St. Pat's is a much more beautiful worship space...St. John's is ok, but it's dark, gray and dingy...sorry if that disappoints you...
oofahman 1 year ago
@oofahman When was the last time you visited St. John's? Have you been there since the cleaning? It isn't dark, grey and dingy any longer....Did you actually watch this video and my other videos of the rededication in 2008?
livzdave 1 year ago
@oofahman Amazing how alot of people - including me - felt God's presence in that "dark, gray and dingy" place, especially when the light hit those stained glass windows just right....go figure.... :)
ms103127 7 months ago
@ms103127 yeah, go figure, eh??
oofahman 7 months ago
@oofahman It absolutely depends on taste. St. Patrick's is Rome beauty, St. John's is England beauty! Obviously I prefer England. :)
skekso1 2 months ago
One of the great Cathedrals in New York City and the World, Saint John the Divine exhibits it's famous Gothic Architecture with an incredibly powerful Trumpet Organ. Magnificent.
Bigu47 1 year ago
Beautiful!!! Wish I could have been there.
marston5000 1 year ago
All this discussion of light Catholic, etc., regardless - it was nice to see a Roman Catholic cardinal (retired NYC Archbishop, Cardinal Egan) in both the entrance procession and the recessional. I would so love to go there some day.
ksbear2 1 year ago
Can somebody identify the seated gentlemen in front of the Cameraperson, some of the people in the Recessional go over to shake his hand.
Bigu47 1 year ago
Overall pretty silly stuff. Apparently some people really like to play dress up. The organ sounds great though.
lipsbach 1 year ago
The State Trumpet is quite amazing, which is more than can be said of the liturgical dancers which personally do nothing for me. The Episcopal church as an institution is in a dire state - its catholicity is seriously in question. Two thuribles should usually only be used in processions of the Blessed sacrament!
MrJpridgway 1 year ago
Two Lots of Incese??? Ohh were!
davidmiler12 1 year ago
WOW! The Lord's music! The organ without peer. I am moved to tears.
southernboi59 1 year ago
I assume this is Anglo-Catholic church, due to the incense!.
mmaybrown 1 year ago
for hildawhitby, They had a huge fire and a restoration of the building which was what this rededication was celebrating. My guess is that much of the art work is still being cleaned or restored. Very costly in time and treasure.
jefffreeland 1 year ago
It gets better each time I watch it
organfreak23 2 years ago
These re-dedication services that you posted are nothing short of awesome. What do they do for Christmas or Easter?
bikdav 2 years ago
The Christmas and Easter services are very similar, minus some of the liturgical dancers in the processions...
livzdave 2 years ago
@livzdave Oh, goody, goody. All we need is liturgical dancers. The ECUSA has become such a zoo!
jockboy69 1 year ago
@jockboy69 Is the Church of Rome also a zoo? Check Catholic News Agency for an article about an assassin posing as a liturgical dancer in the Sudan. It's a recent article, and confirms that the Vatican allows its use in Africa. Further, many other denominations have liturgical dance. BTW, I'm not a fan of the practice or the streamers but you'll need a different cudgel to bash my church.
brassspitoon 1 year ago
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jockboy69 1 year ago
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jockboy69 1 year ago
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jockboy69 1 year ago
@brassspitoon Yes, the RC church is pretty much a zoo as well. As far as needing something to bash your church, I already did, and it seemed to have hit a sore spot.
Oh well, zoo or no, none of this is the end of the world. I'll get over it.
jockboy69 1 year ago
St. John The Divine is a episcopal church, isn´t it?? The procession looks like roman-catholic...
sanctus100 2 years ago
Yes, St. John The Divine is an Episcopal cathedral - didn't you know that Episcopalians consider themselves 'light-Catholics'? Very similar to RC processions, especially for special events...
livzdave 2 years ago
@livzdave No, it is Roman Catholics who refer to us Episcopalians or Anglicans as 'light Catholics' or 'Catholic light'. Actually, the Anglican Church is the bridge church or denomination between the Catholics and Protestants with our 'high' (Catholic), 'low' (Protestant) and 'broad' (combination of the two) parishes and forms of worship.
59swl 1 year ago
Well that is absurd...there is only ONE worship, not broad or whatever...a Bridge Church? a person is either Roman Catholic (or other rites of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Catholic, Coptic, etc.) or that person is not...If you are NOT in union with the Roman Catholic Church, then you are Protestant...it's black and white and as simple as that. All this talk of a bridge church is just plain BS...
oofahman 1 year ago
The Anglican Church is the English Catholic church, and in many cases the liturgy is even higher than that in RC churches.
codeman2008 2 years ago 3
@codeman2008 That's really true! My church is an Anglo-Catholic church and to be honest, I think our service is much more Roman Catholic than the actual Roman Catholics.
mmaybrown 1 year ago
@codeman2008 There was a time saying or writing "The Anglican Church is the English Catholic church" would have been fighting words. Only in recent years, the Episcopal Church in the U.S. drop "Protestant" from its name. As an life-long Anglican, not once did I ever hear the English Anglican church refer to as the 'English Catholic Church'. While the Anglican and Lutheran denominations share a common lineage with the Roman Catholic faith, they are not Catholic in the Roman sense of the word.
59swl 1 year ago
@59swl
Officially the Anglican church is 'Catholic and reformed', it is Catholic in that it's roots come from the original Church, in the same sense that the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Catholic Church are Catholic. The Lutheran Church is not Catholic in this sense, they broke from the RC church over issues of faith, enable to reform and change. The English Church did NOT break from the Church of Rome for this reason, and though it has been reformed, it is still Catholic in a way.
codeman2008 1 year ago
The Anglican church is not apostolic...it was founded by a mere mortal man, Henry the VIII...he broke from union with Rome because Rome would not allow him to get an annulment, so he got ticked off at the Pope at that time and started his own church. When someone 'founds' their own Church, it is NOT Apostolic (a direct descendant of the Apostles) but a man-made organization. Only the RC Church can trace it's founding back to Christ. Study the history and writings of the early church fathers.
oofahman 1 year ago
@oofahman .....lol I kinda don't think so! The church was already there and established; Henry the 8th hijacked it and took it over. Besides, don't believe in anything made by man as all great religions today were. The're crooked and controlling. Really have nothing to do with God.
2468HOTROD 1 year ago
@59swl No - they are catholic in the small 'c', i.e., universal church aspect. Romans, Eastern churches (both Eastern Catholic and Orthodox), the Anglican communion and Lutherans are ALL small "C" catholic churches.
ksbear2 1 year ago
@codeman2008 Very true, but this reminds me so much of Easter Vigil and Midnight Mass in my parish from the incense to the music to the ritual.
Jacobre156 1 year ago
I just had a visit to New York and visited the Cathedral for the first time in a long time. Does anyone know WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLACE? It's like they stripped it of all artwork that could actually be moved. The large crucifix and Black Madonna in the Narthex - gone. The statue of St. Francis, the wolf, the buffalo - gone. The Holocaust Memorial - gone. The large brass artifact that holds the Book of Remembrance is there - you can't move THAT - but there is no BOOK in it anymore!
hildawhitby 2 years ago
Comment removed
smithjord 2 years ago
@hildawhitby
There was a huge fire in the Cathedral in December 2001 or 2002, I forget which... There was a lot of damage to the gift shop, some of the artwork and the organ... This service was the first with the restored organ. They had been using a substitute while the organ was being repaired. The cathedral which had been "half closed" for repairs was open completely for the first time also in this service.
njn3 1 year ago
I thought "O God our help in ages past was written by William Croft, not Isaac Watts.
PiedPuyper 2 years ago
the people near whoever is recording this are so busy talking during bruce's improv, completely and utterly RUDE...AND they can't even sing in time with the organ especially on the last verse...
jamesjdouglas 2 years ago
Thank you livzdave for posting these videos of this magnificent restored Aeolian Skinner Organ. It is truly awesome!! I can only hope to one day visit this beautiful cathedral.
Also extend thanks to the FDNY heroes and all their fellow comrades for what they have endured not only through 9/11 but every day of their lives! Bravo to you from Canada!
Best Regards,
Roy
organnut 2 years ago
Playing in this place is so frickin' awesome! And you actually don't hear the state trumpet from the console much at all...actually, you don't hear it at all over full organ...yet it's such a loud stop. That building is just amazing.
edolch 2 years ago
I mean no disrespect when I say this, but with such a beautiful church, an amazing organ, I think they need desperately a soloist to go along with it....a rich baritone or a mezzo....
maraljan 2 years ago
Most Anglican churches don't use any vocal soloists during a 'sequence' hymn such as this....I know the Catholic church frequently uses vocal soloists during most of the service.
livzdave 2 years ago
And.......that's why nobody sings.
jacksonborges 2 years ago
And, alas, we tend to be rather open about who's asked to cantor, much to my chagrin every Sunday.
willowthebored 2 years ago
No dear, this isn't Catholic or the Metropolitan Opera.
jacksonborges 2 years ago
Excuse me my dear, I must correct your ignorance
The idea of a "Cantor" is not only common in the catholic Church, but it exists also in Judaism-hello! Look it up sweetheart....hazzanim
Cantors are also present in Ancient Eastern orthodox liturgies....you might want to look that one up too :)
As you can see this was in existance WAY BEFORE the met was even concieved....:)
maraljan 2 years ago
This may sound like the Met to you, but it's an ancient Chant from the middle ages.....way before the met came into existence.
This is a cantor part during an Armenian Eastern orthodox liturgy. FYI-Armenia was the first official Christian nation.
Look up:
"Mary Magdalene Armenian Church Badarak Mass"
on youtube. This is not from a Catholic mass....
maraljan 2 years ago
Only if there was going to be a solo for a verse.
That is the point of a soloist. To sing a solo.
Choral and congregational singing is something else.
rrchapman 2 years ago
@maraljan Most Episcopal church musicians and congregations are strongly against soloist leaders, or cantors. They ruin the balance of congregational singing, we all sing as one, as IT SHOULD BE!
codeman2008 1 year ago
@maraljan A church such as this great cathedral is not a concert hall. Although the unchurched or people from other church or faith traditions may feel the need to incorporate soloists in such in a liturgy. Anglicans, as a rule, do not.
59swl 1 year ago
@maraljan A church such as this great cathedral is not a concert hall. Although the unchurched or people from other churches or faith traditions may feel the need to incorporate soloists in such in a liturgy. Anglicans, as a rule, do not.
59swl 1 year ago
I would absolutely love to see this place. It's huge! The State Trumpet, being two blocks away from the console, can speak over everything else! Would love to see it. Collegiate organ student.
motobkemstr 2 years ago
You have no idea. I live in Washington, am Episcopalian and go to our cathedral from time to time. SJTD is much much larger. And our cathedral is 6th in size in the world. The stained glass windows in St. John are incredible, but you're right- the organ takes the cake. I swear if I had a toupee and was near the front, it would fly off my head at the blast of the trumpet pipes. There is no way to describe the sound. By all means, go. It's a real pilgrimage.
dsindc 2 years ago
Is this WNC? Yes, it's one thing to look at it on YT but to be there is almost like learning the organ all over again! I would believe it, that the trumpets can do that! How's the organ reno going at WNC?
motobkemstr 2 years ago
WNC = Washington National Cathedral? No, this is St. John the Divine in NYC, as the title says...
livzdave 2 years ago
No I was replying to dsindc's comment.
motobkemstr 2 years ago
Sorry, I should have been more specific, I wanted to know what church he was coming from. Sorry again!
motobkemstr 2 years ago
Oh no !! This is St. John the Divine (SJTD)... I was comparing it to Wash. Cathedral - I hate calling our cathedral "National Cathedral". It's the Cathedral Church of St. Peter and St. Paul. Not sure of the status of the organ here. I'm just glad St. John the Divine has been able to get back on its feet. Now if they can just finish it. The transepts are still to be built as well as the towers.
dsindc 2 years ago
Very true! I was surprised to see that St. John the Devine is still incomplete! The organ is great in that lovely space. I have a Sts. Peter and Paul by where I live! It's got a huge Walker.
motobkemstr 2 years ago
No, this is St. John the Divine. The Washington Cathedral's organ renovation is on hold, since the Cathedral can't afford it right now.
organist99x 2 years ago
Yeah, I know, I was replying to another person's comment, I should have been more specific. I wanted to know if the church HE was talking about was WNC.
motobkemstr 2 years ago
the jury's still out on liturgical dance
tippymugs 2 years ago
i love how worship can be such an artistic, spiritual, physical and emotional act. People coming together, singing, praying, and involved is what it's all about! :)
emeryja23 2 years ago
This one mean organ. Can't wait for new CDs recorded here.
2468HOTROD 2 years ago
Great playing by Bruce. I could do without the flag carrying liturgical dancers. They add nothing but distraction an otherwise gorgeous service.
Froscoe 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
beleive what ever you want.......and be welcome in TEC..... They'll believe anything dogma...catma.....whatever....
just keep sending the money.....
Mefactor 2 years ago
Mefactor, since you've been here twice, we Episcopalians hold some fascination for you. An inability to question, challenge & reconsider anything, including theology indicates a shallow faith, not a strong one. Christian scripture asserts a support of slavery, does that mean it must be codified then? No. We understand scripture to be a living document, & that it must be read in context. If you believe in a literal interpretation you have turned Christianity into a sort of idol worship.
dsindc 2 years ago
NO actually i am a life long anglican with a formal christian education....But thankyou for your concern.your facination should be with the tec being unable to affirm basic christian tenants.God is big but, he is GOD. "The god of our understanding" gives us to much control to do and say what we want.God starts to look like "ME" Over the last 2000 years through apistolic succession and the writing of the church fathers we have a good idea of what Christianity should look like it is not the TEC.
Mefactor 2 years ago
By the way, I've never been pressured to drop a big wad of money on the Church. And we don't wonder if some of it is going to pay off hundreds of sexual abuse claims. Neither do we assume that it will be going to fund a new jet, vacation home, or huge spending allowance for the "preacher". But I'm sure you'll be sanctimonious enough to correct our ways.
Dominus Vobiscum.
dsindc 2 years ago
you can say what you want and be who you want but the faith and the creeds are self explanditory. if the tec cannot affirm those, then what the use of church but to make you feel good and be self justification. Read the church fathers.....
AND ..... i am not fooled...... you don't have to drop a big wad of cash. the tec has never hurt for money..I have worked at the diocese, and provincial level for the old episcopal church...PLEASE..spare me the self sanctification bit. lets not get into this.
Mefactor 2 years ago
Oh but on some level you ARE asking to "get into this". If you want to entertain an image of the RC church that the majority of church historians dismiss, then YOU believe what YOU want. Your comment "The god of our understanding" gives us to (sic) much control to do and say what we want" is revelatory. This is called 'projection'. We project attributes to god . If one feels guilty about certain emotions then those feelings are projected to god to validate their prejudicial ideas. (cont)
dsindc 2 years ago
You ever seen where the Dean of John the Divine lives? A mansion in a wooded area of Manhattan's Upper West Side is one hell of a perk. And they just laid off workers.
hildawhitby 2 years ago
If you are then, afraid of & guilty about your personal freedom, then you will create a very legalistic god full of wrath. The creeds were written because even the synoptic gospels are inconsistent. There is a deep theological reason why for instance, there is no nativity narrative in Mark's gospel. His theology is 'adoptionistic'.
We Anglicans have no time for blind faith. I know many RC priests who feel exactly the same way. If it is a security blanket you are looking for, then fine.
dsindc 2 years ago
Comment removed
Mefactor 2 years ago
I AM AN ANGLICAN...and have been for the last 30 years. The nature of Jesus Christ is not relative to how guilty you feel if your friend comes out of the closet and gives you an ultimatum. love the person not what they do. and don't make excuses for them. in short Christianity is not "POP culture" I do not feel guilty. But the episcopal church seems to change the rules so that there is no harm no guilt.
you need to read some books. i will give you a list..but may i suggest the bible first.
Mefactor 2 years ago
Somehow the glory and grandeur...reverence and awe...of the RC and Anglican services must be harmonized with the actual Teachings of Jesus. Please reconsider the eucharistic liturgy and Book of Common Prayer...as well as the Old Testament God...and pagan symbolism. A lot of this goes back into ancient Babylon, Egypt, and Rome...and possibly all the way back to Lucifer. I love the organ, brass, singing...and the RC and Anglican people...but please rethink everything. It may be very painful.
redletterchurch 2 years ago
The grandeur, and awe dates to the early roman church when the church was recognized as the religion of rome. I am assuming that you go to a non-denominational church...i would first remind you that before the reformations (there were 2 or 3) there was one church and it looked alot like this. The prayer book is 75+ % straight scripture quotation.... The church must look at the bible and take it to heart, have an individual relationship with Christ, and not make disconnects about the faith.
Mefactor 2 years ago
I have decided to follow the Teachings of Jesus. This is what Jesus told us to do in the Great Commission.
redletterchurch 2 years ago
I believe you're still missing our point
UPCFreeport 2 years ago
How about a Bach prelude...a procession...and nothing but hymns...a recession...and a Widor postlude? Research the pagan Dagon fish heads some of the clergy in this video are wearing. Jordan Maxwell has some insights regarding this. The eucharist involves human sacrifice. Look at the human sacrifices in paganism and satanism. Some of the ancient roots and traditions are problematic... but it is very, very difficult to throw out the bathwater...without throwing out the baby. I'm very conflicted.
redletterchurch 2 years ago
OK put this in simple terms...UPC is not a does not believe in the trinity..yes. The oneness of the godhead stuff is for the birds.. SO..if i were to use the imagery of a BBQ rib to illistrate the "oneness of the godhead" you would say that "the bone is the meat is the sauce....what a bunch of crap. read the creeds. the creeds were written by those who were of early apostolic succession. Also read the church fathers. I think that you would be enlightened by it.
Mefactor 2 years ago
it must be harmonised with the bible, not pop culture MY POINT EXACTLY! However the traditions of the church are important too! they have been constant for the past 1900 years. what ever you believe in in terms of christianity was shaped by what you would ask people to throw away. By the way the most common pagan symbol used today is the Christmas tree....i have never found a christmas tree in the bible.
there is nothing wrong with tradition as long as you are not worshiping that not Christ.
Mefactor 2 years ago
Please keep your comments on topic. Thanks.
livzdave 2 years ago
I love the organ/acoustic match. The trompettes are unrivaled. I'm going to listen to organ and choral music while I study my 1928 BCP. Thank-you for posting this.
redletterchurch 2 years ago
Best organ in the USA. If only they didn't use those ridiculous liturgical dancers! They make a laughingstock of the liturgy by taking the meaning of liturgical dance totally out of context.
Geigemann88 2 years ago 14
@Geigemann88 Amen!
istgone 1 year ago
@Geigemann88 That a matter of opinion. It all depends on what you are looking for. I tend to like Riverside and St. John the Divine.oth are wonderful instruments and are the best of their time time.
I agree with you that the "liturgical" DANCERS NEED TO JUST go away!
MW, Atlanta, GA
ATLKapellmeister 10 months ago
I'm glad to hear this organ play again and to hear those powerful chamades in the back sound off once more.
tamiasthechipmunk 2 years ago
Comment removed
Mefactor 3 years ago
A great celebration! I think the whole thing is marvelous, so open and very un-stuffy. The place is so enormous, but we need places and things like this to remind us of the enormous diversity and vastness of creation and humanity...to remind us that no matter how great a thing we build that the world and universe is wonderous and unfathomable.
JimmieBluffdweller 3 years ago
I am waiting on edge for them to do a recording now that the Great Organ Restoration is complete....
bombarde1701 3 years ago
There will be a series of rededication recitals to correspond with the 100th anniversary of the Organ over the next 18 months or so. The first recital is scheduled for sometime this fall. I'm hoping to be able to record some of these recitals myself, using professional equipment.
livzdave 3 years ago
what strange religion is this???
bemer65351 3 years ago
Is that a serious comment? It is an Episcopal church. The liturgical dance (while not my favorite) and the pennant waving are no stranger than many Roman Catholic Sicilian feast day marches with elaborate floats and "relics" in the mix. Your Bible Belt prejudice is showing.
brassspitoon 3 years ago
The use of relics is a practice dating back to the earliest days of the Church. I am curious to know how "liturgical dance" has any connection whatsoever to liturgy. I am Catholic myself, and I know there are obvious differences in liturgy/doctrine between the Catholic and Episcopal Churches, but these two churches are not that far apart, at least liturgically speaking. "Liturgical dance" is a modern innovation that has no place in solemn, serious, dignified liturgy.
dearnleyfan 3 years ago 2
In the ancient Byzantine church, the buildings were circular, and the service was performed as a ballet, with an inner and outer circle of people. The climax of the service was the kiss, between to men representing Christ and St Paul, I think. I was reading a book of Byzantine architecture, which described the early service, to explain the significance of the central dome, which was where the kiss happened.
Lifecomesfromwithin 2 years ago
LOL those Liturgical Dancers look like utter fools!! Hahahahahaha
The rest of it is beautifully done.
bladeboi2 3 years ago
I visited this cathedral on a day trip back in like 2000, I'm so glad to see this place is finally renovated and so beautiful
AnonFTLD 3 years ago
WOW! If HDTV and its audio need a church environment to demonstrate its capabilities, this church would be a mighty fine candidate.
bikdav 3 years ago
Many thanks for posting this! I honestly never thought I would hear this magnificent organ again!!
ContreBombarde 3 years ago
Right about the liturgical dancers; when I was teaching at a Roman Catholic school back in the 1980s, I had an argument with a male student who was no small chap, and he almost backed me into a corner because he was so conservative--against liturgical dance! I had to send him to the office--lol!
Anywho, this is a beautiful restoration, and I hope to get there soon and visit and perhaps play this instrument.
tippymugs 3 years ago
Wow. The Holy Spirit is certainly present here!
jackiesps6 3 years ago
THIS is the way the Lord should be worshipped!!
My Gosh we Episcopalians do it SOooo Good!
Awesome, Awesome, Awesom!
Operaman41 3 years ago
I WISH that photographers could be more discreet!
Operaman41 3 years ago
WOW!!!! I have waited years for the Great Organ to finally be restored and sounding greater then ever before!! I have all the organ CDs from here...and I reallllly hope they do another album now that the restoration is complete...
bombarde1701 3 years ago 2
Sounds like most of the singers in the congregation are true Episcopalians (that's a Methodist joke ;-). Another Methodist joke: what do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness with a Unitarian? Someone who goes around knocking on doors for no apparent reason.
a55b47 3 years ago
LOL!!! Man that's funny.........
bhigdaddymark 3 years ago
WOW!
Nue34 3 years ago
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This awesome instrument has always been a favorite! The CD by Paul Haley is AMAZING as is Dorothy Papadakus CD. Pomp and Circumstance at its ABSOLUTE BEST!
hitidesin 3 years ago
Outstanding. I could do without the liturgical dancers and streamers, but otherwise, just stunning. I don't think I've ever seen a bishop be first in a procession. That was a new one.
RChglo 3 years ago 2
I guess when the Presiding Bishop attends, it is acceptable to have her process first.... :-)
ms103127 3 years ago
Did anyone record (Audio or video) in the introit of the evensong later that day at 4. I had a solo and my mom missed it by 10 minutes. If I could find it, it would make her day! thanks.
-patrick
patfennig 3 years ago
Wonderful!!!!
ronanmurray 3 years ago
I left an Awesome rating, but Awesome isnt high enough to rate this , It is beyond Awesome
danielwh1881 3 years ago
Wow - that was an awful lot of insence to be burning just after cleaning all the smoke residue off the interior LOL!
timdidit 3 years ago
Keep them coming, my friend!
stormkingfan 3 years ago
Fantastic!!!!
moller11739 3 years ago