I am so, so tired of hearing Republican after Republican sugar-coating this insane, futile war. Why can't they just stay in their men's-room stalls and let the smart people run the country?
the numbers blitzer is reading are based on news reports of deaths due to violence. and the numbers have not increased in the summer. they have stayed the same if not decreased.
hey, that comment was supposed to be a reply to pburto.. it can be misconstrued if it's not shown that way.. i'm not pro-war... but i don't think the US pulling out will make an ounce of a difference.
I see your point, but even for June, July, and August, Blitzer cites different numbers than you do. Wondering if you know why they're different, that's all.
So now its civilian casualties, since troop casualties are next to nothing!! The media is playing into the hands of the enemy which wishes to divert its resources and focus from hard military targets to simply easy civilian targets. The progress is not in the statistics but in the hearts and minds of Iraqis in fighting to alqaeda!!!
The progress is in the fact that Iraqis are no longer friends of alqaeda!!!!!! Pay attention, security is not a viable plan but a counterinsurgency is a clear way to victory; which is exactly what we are doing not acting as human shields to Iraqi civilians but active local units embedded with Iraqis in towns and cities across Iraq.
Rising civilian deaths happen in a war sir, what makes you think otherwise? Aside from that I believe the rising mortality rate is due in large part to Alqaeda focusing on the civilian population and its desire to control the people around it. With recent sucesses with the counterinsurgency the population is becoming defiant and repelling alqaueda so alqaeda is doing the most logical thing retaliating.
I'm not a soldier but i've read enough to understand that unless the civilians believe the official gov or US forces can protect them any COIN will not work.
And the rising civilian death may make them hate AQ but it also made them distrust their gov and US forces ability to protect them.
lowleo: True, see, I can agree with you, not often, but sometimes. You made a remark about my insulting Dumbell99, someone who opts for a name like that can't be insulted, do you get my drift, lowleo.
lowleo; Some have the intelligence to understand many of the deaths to civilians is due to the killing among religious factions, the amount of crime before, the money being stolen, the family fueds settled by killing, arms trafficking, by civilians who stole them to the terrorists, these are only a few of reasons. I am sure there are many more, and because they are not in our press you don't think about it. Blame the americans, everyone else does.
"Some have the intelligence to understand many of the deaths to civilians is due to the killing among religious factions, the amount of crime before, the money being stolen, the family fueds settled by killing, arms trafficking, by civilians who stole them to the terrorists, these are only a few of reasons".
Yes and those 'reasons' aren't existed before US forces invade Iraq.
Understand why people tend to blame Americans on Iraq?
lowleo; "those reasons aren't existed before US invade Iraq", I refered to you as lowleo because I thought you were a little slow, now I realize you don't even move, where are you from , the moon, or mars, do you think crime exists only in america, are you that stupid or completly brainless. If anyone can tell you about killing, stealing, or black marketing, an arab can, they have been noted for this for centuries.
<b>Wolf Blitzer, countering</b> the, George W. Bush, puppet, gobblygoop, Orwellian speak, of this guy here, <b>'Republican Rep. Boustany'</b>.
<u>In reply to the</u>, <u><b>gobblygoop/("We have to look at all the metrics very carefully.")</u></b>, said, 'Rep. Boustany'.
<u>Wolf Blitzer, retorts by verbally zapping him with:</u> <b><u>"Well, in terms of, DEAD PEOPLE, civilians, Iraqi dead people, those numbers are high and there getting worse!"</b></u>
Who would give credability to someone with the name wolf, and to top it off he's on the comic news network, I bet even the terrorists don't listen to him.
lowleo; what are the likes of me? You don't know me and I am sure I don't know anyone with the level of intelligence you seem to have, who dresses you in the morning, and feeds you? I don't care if Ron Paul got 100% in the fox poll, anyone who would envision RP as prez. is a brainless idiot, an Islamic terrorist or both.
lowleo; I am not an apologist for anyone, I have never voted a straight ticket in my life. The poll will not get RP elected, and yes , I do once in a while make snide remarks, but that is part of the fun on UT, it, like the poll, is meaningless. I was a registered democrat all my life until last year, and that means nothing also.
It's sad to say but most americans could careless how many Iraqi's die. Sureley this administration could give a damn about any regard for life over there. I just don't understand how they can dig a hole so big, put us americans in there, and we continue to give them more shovels to dig further. Just sick may This administration go to hell.
Vote Ron Paul, if you do not like him for some reason then you have Kucinich and Gravel. Do not let the media tell you they do not have a chance because that is how they control you.
Dumbell99: with your last statement you have been promoted to Dumbell100, I can tell you are a real thinker, or is that a real stinker, it is also evident that you are the first person to actually have a brain smaller than a pea.
oooo you are soo cleaver. I am impressed. But nothing you can say can change the truth I am speaking. People occasionally do not like the things I say and insult me because it goes against their little reality they create for themselves..just like the one you probably created. Imagine, thinking you have a real choice in politics? Who is the real idiot here? It certainly isn't me.
dumbell101;If you have to ask who is the real idiot here, you are in trouble. Yes, I was trying to be clever, don't take it seriously, I do not know you, therefore my comment about the size of your brain is moot, but Ron Paul is a lost cause, and Kucinich is a complete waste of time. Try Mitt or maybe Newt, you can't do any better or maybe you can.
No I will not try those guys because they are not better than the rest of them. What you do not seem to understand is that the people in the CFR are not working for you, they are working for David Rockefeller and the CFR. You will find that is the reason things never seem to change or get better. Just try and look it up, I am serious about that.
dumbell 1000; What you do not understand is that I am telling you to choose for yourself, I only suggested a choice, the decision is yours. Ron Paul is crazy to say that we should get rid of the FBI and the CIA, and to bow down to Iran, he does not understand it all has to do with religion, they will die to make the world an islamic state, they must convert us or kill us. It will not make a difference who is prez., and this is someting you had better believe.
dumbellbeyondcomparison: I understand how you got your moniker, I originally thought it to be a joke, but now I see you have really worked hard to live up to your name. Have someone who understands the language to read this to you, choose for yourself, whatever I or anyone else tells you is strictly opinion, and we all know that opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, but in your case I believe you have two, one at each end.
Democrat = Republican = You get screwed. We all have differing political views, but the one common bind that Americans must have is to remember the Declaration of Indepence and to preserve the US Constitution. Stop fighting amonst ourselved and fight together to preserve the principles of indivudual liberty!
The way to start is voting Ron Paul, if you do not like him for some reason then you have Kucinich and Gravel. Do not let the media tell you they do not have a chance because that is how they control you.
why don't these republicans just come clean and be honest. if they did that, they might have a chance in nov of 08.
why do they feel they have to continue to lie? don't they realize we americans (at least in the north & west who aren't aligned with the christian right) know what the hell is going on?
If this guy realised finally the hell that the Republicans have created in Iraq for other human beings on this planet, he would probably be hanging from from a fan by his tie in his hotel room instead of lying on tv.
The Sanctions that smothered iraq for almost thirteen years, the treatment of the Iraqi people before that date, removed the stigma attached to the imprisonment of an entire nation and their steady "debilitation and the death under the UN sanction regime.when the Anglo-American occupiers settled into their palaces in Baghdad, they would blame the collapse of the electrical power,water-pumping stations, factories and commercial life on Saddam.
I wonder if Boustany is close to fellow GOP Louisana politician Vitter? Vitter was the guy who came forward when his number appeared on the DC Madam's phone records. One hooker said Vitter liked to wear diapers and be whipped! GOP, nothing but Grand Old Perverts! By the way, the Republicans gave Vitter a standing ovation when he came back, but they told Craig he had to leave right away- straight pervs are okay but Republicans sure do hate their gays!
He clearly said, "Sectarian deaths are down." Then he LIES when Wolf confronts him with the facts and says, "Well, I think what I mentioned earlier, Wolf, was the number of attacks." The people who still support pieces of shit like this guy- I'd like them to have their children taken from them and sent to Iraq to fight in the Iraqi Civil War. End this nonsense now. Give us some truth for once Boustany, you lying, Dubya worhipping piece of shit.
Damn straight. Wolf has most often come across as spineless, likely because he has a poor command of the facts, but once he he has the facts it was nice to seem him willing to call bullshit on that lying Republican sack of shit.
Prior to a few mainstream journalists speaking out here recently, you could only get real news about Iraq on BBC - they have journalists embedded with our troops, telling it like it is. Great to see Wolf Blitzer go after this guy and his "facts." The propaganda machine never quits; when will Congress impeach BushCo? During Vietnam protests, we eventually had so many Americans in the streets, they brought our troops home - hopefully more will start protesting Iraq.
haha " In terms of dead people" can't get more concrete than that
McConsumer 3 years ago
Look how cute, Wolf Blitzer finally waking up. Too. Fucking. Late!
viniciusb 4 years ago
I am so, so tired of hearing Republican after Republican sugar-coating this insane, futile war. Why can't they just stay in their men's-room stalls and let the smart people run the country?
mwb970 4 years ago 2
Republicans are human filth.
JoeTheDudeRanch 4 years ago 2
In a country where temperatures soar into the 100's, where few have air conditioning, deaths will increase during the summer.
"Deaths" are not the same as "casualties."
I'm just sayin'.
pburto 4 years ago
the numbers blitzer is reading are based on news reports of deaths due to violence. and the numbers have not increased in the summer. they have stayed the same if not decreased.
Aug-07 1674
Jul-07 1690
Jun-07 1345
May-07 1980
Apr-07 1821
Mar-07 2977
Feb-07 3014
Jan-07 1802
Dec-06 1752
r9nger0ver 4 years ago
hey, that comment was supposed to be a reply to pburto.. it can be misconstrued if it's not shown that way.. i'm not pro-war... but i don't think the US pulling out will make an ounce of a difference.
r9nger0ver 4 years ago
I may have been mistaken... Just noting that he said "deaths" not "casualties".
I note that your numbers don't match what he says however. Any idea why?
pburto 4 years ago
no.. there is indeed an upward trend from june to august, which is what he mentions.. he 'forgets' to mention the preceding numbers.
r9nger0ver 4 years ago
I see your point, but even for June, July, and August, Blitzer cites different numbers than you do. Wondering if you know why they're different, that's all.
pburto 4 years ago
o.. wolf's numbers are from the health ministry.. mine are based on news reports of violence.
r9nger0ver 4 years ago
Another Republican shill. STFU; we don't wanna hear your lies.
expatted 4 years ago 2
So now its civilian casualties, since troop casualties are next to nothing!! The media is playing into the hands of the enemy which wishes to divert its resources and focus from hard military targets to simply easy civilian targets. The progress is not in the statistics but in the hearts and minds of Iraqis in fighting to alqaeda!!!
mproductions12 4 years ago
The progress is in the fact that Iraqis are no longer friends of alqaeda!!!!!! Pay attention, security is not a viable plan but a counterinsurgency is a clear way to victory; which is exactly what we are doing not acting as human shields to Iraqi civilians but active local units embedded with Iraqis in towns and cities across Iraq.
mproductions12 4 years ago
So rising civilian deaths is a sign of progress because you think it would make them hate AQ?
AQ don't care whether Iraqi hate them or not.
What matters to them is that everyone AFRAID of them.
And it seems they've succeeded.
And you call this progress?
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
Rising civilian deaths happen in a war sir, what makes you think otherwise? Aside from that I believe the rising mortality rate is due in large part to Alqaeda focusing on the civilian population and its desire to control the people around it. With recent sucesses with the counterinsurgency the population is becoming defiant and repelling alqaueda so alqaeda is doing the most logical thing retaliating.
mproductions12 4 years ago
I'm not a soldier but i've read enough to understand that unless the civilians believe the official gov or US forces can protect them any COIN will not work.
And the rising civilian death may make them hate AQ but it also made them distrust their gov and US forces ability to protect them.
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
lowleo: True, see, I can agree with you, not often, but sometimes. You made a remark about my insulting Dumbell99, someone who opts for a name like that can't be insulted, do you get my drift, lowleo.
gemini067 4 years ago
Well then why do you insult Blitzer?
If you don't like what he said why don't you argue his points?
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
lowleo; Some have the intelligence to understand many of the deaths to civilians is due to the killing among religious factions, the amount of crime before, the money being stolen, the family fueds settled by killing, arms trafficking, by civilians who stole them to the terrorists, these are only a few of reasons. I am sure there are many more, and because they are not in our press you don't think about it. Blame the americans, everyone else does.
gemini067 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Some have the intelligence to understand many of the deaths to civilians is due to the killing among religious factions, the amount of crime before, the money being stolen, the family fueds settled by killing, arms trafficking, by civilians who stole them to the terrorists, these are only a few of reasons".
Yes and those 'reasons' aren't existed before US forces invade Iraq.
Understand why people tend to blame Americans on Iraq?
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
lowleo; "those reasons aren't existed before US invade Iraq", I refered to you as lowleo because I thought you were a little slow, now I realize you don't even move, where are you from , the moon, or mars, do you think crime exists only in america, are you that stupid or completly brainless. If anyone can tell you about killing, stealing, or black marketing, an arab can, they have been noted for this for centuries.
gemini067 4 years ago
Ah ad hominem attack again.
When was the last time there's suicide bombing, car bombing, IED, insurgents, rebellion in Iraq before America invade it?
Someone sure is slow here and it isn't me.
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
<u><b>hahahahaha</u></b>
<b>Wolf Blitzer, countering</b> the, George W. Bush, puppet, gobblygoop, Orwellian speak, of this guy here, <b>'Republican Rep. Boustany'</b>.
<u>In reply to the</u>, <u><b>gobblygoop/("We have to look at all the metrics very carefully.")</u></b>, said, 'Rep. Boustany'.
<u>Wolf Blitzer, retorts by verbally zapping him with:</u> <b><u>"Well, in terms of, DEAD PEOPLE, civilians, Iraqi dead people, those numbers are high and there getting worse!"</b></u>
knowledgeofall 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A listen to wolf blitzer is exactly why I watch the FOX news channel. Don't need wolfs veiw.
1powerball 4 years ago
How many troops are in a platoon?
IIIGHOSTIII 4 years ago
Usually 30 - 50, it varies.
Edella 4 years ago
Who would give credability to someone with the name wolf, and to top it off he's on the comic news network, I bet even the terrorists don't listen to him.
gemini067 4 years ago
Can't argue his point so you attack his name?
That's low even for the likes of you.
By the way Ron Paul won the Fox poll by 33%.
But Hannity doesn't seem to like this fact very much.
Are you Hannity?
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
lowleo; what are the likes of me? You don't know me and I am sure I don't know anyone with the level of intelligence you seem to have, who dresses you in the morning, and feeds you? I don't care if Ron Paul got 100% in the fox poll, anyone who would envision RP as prez. is a brainless idiot, an Islamic terrorist or both.
gemini067 4 years ago
People like you are GOP apologists who name called instead of argue someone's points.
And yes you do care about whether or not Paul won any poll or else you wouldn't insult Dumbell99 for supporting him.
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
lowleo; I am not an apologist for anyone, I have never voted a straight ticket in my life. The poll will not get RP elected, and yes , I do once in a while make snide remarks, but that is part of the fun on UT, it, like the poll, is meaningless. I was a registered democrat all my life until last year, and that means nothing also.
gemini067 4 years ago
"i had a platoon with me" hahahaha...if i had a platoon of marines protecting me i fucking set up camp next to osama.
jeffc3888 4 years ago 6
ALIENS ARE COMING IN 20012
tube4yourass 4 years ago
tube4yourass: "ALIENS ARE COMING IN 20012"
As long as it is 18,005 years away, I won't worry about it.
vrede420 4 years ago 4
We are already here. That human meant BC...
PTTurboe 4 years ago
Aliens or Jesus ??
U decide....
kaiban42 4 years ago
It's sad to say but most americans could careless how many Iraqi's die. Sureley this administration could give a damn about any regard for life over there. I just don't understand how they can dig a hole so big, put us americans in there, and we continue to give them more shovels to dig further. Just sick may This administration go to hell.
lewti27 4 years ago 8
these clowns are under pressure from Cheney and his clan to produce progress....at any cost...
marcusjansen239369 4 years ago 4
More troops = more civilian deaths. Wow. If this is what Republicans call progress what would a set back look like.
Tonydalonely 4 years ago 3
Vote Ron Paul, if you do not like him for some reason then you have Kucinich and Gravel. Do not let the media tell you they do not have a chance because that is how they control you.
Dumbell99 4 years ago 2
Dumbell99: with your last statement you have been promoted to Dumbell100, I can tell you are a real thinker, or is that a real stinker, it is also evident that you are the first person to actually have a brain smaller than a pea.
gemini067 4 years ago
oooo you are soo cleaver. I am impressed. But nothing you can say can change the truth I am speaking. People occasionally do not like the things I say and insult me because it goes against their little reality they create for themselves..just like the one you probably created. Imagine, thinking you have a real choice in politics? Who is the real idiot here? It certainly isn't me.
Dumbell99 4 years ago
dumbell101;If you have to ask who is the real idiot here, you are in trouble. Yes, I was trying to be clever, don't take it seriously, I do not know you, therefore my comment about the size of your brain is moot, but Ron Paul is a lost cause, and Kucinich is a complete waste of time. Try Mitt or maybe Newt, you can't do any better or maybe you can.
gemini067 4 years ago
No I will not try those guys because they are not better than the rest of them. What you do not seem to understand is that the people in the CFR are not working for you, they are working for David Rockefeller and the CFR. You will find that is the reason things never seem to change or get better. Just try and look it up, I am serious about that.
Dumbell99 4 years ago
dumbell 1000; What you do not understand is that I am telling you to choose for yourself, I only suggested a choice, the decision is yours. Ron Paul is crazy to say that we should get rid of the FBI and the CIA, and to bow down to Iran, he does not understand it all has to do with religion, they will die to make the world an islamic state, they must convert us or kill us. It will not make a difference who is prez., and this is someting you had better believe.
gemini067 4 years ago
You really have to stop watching Fox News. What you just said is a giant shit sandwich of propaganda. Believe what you want, its just sad.
Dumbell99 4 years ago
dumbellbeyondcomparison: I understand how you got your moniker, I originally thought it to be a joke, but now I see you have really worked hard to live up to your name. Have someone who understands the language to read this to you, choose for yourself, whatever I or anyone else tells you is strictly opinion, and we all know that opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, but in your case I believe you have two, one at each end.
gemini067 4 years ago
Ron Paul!
615ocean 4 years ago
Democrat = Republican = You get screwed. We all have differing political views, but the one common bind that Americans must have is to remember the Declaration of Indepence and to preserve the US Constitution. Stop fighting amonst ourselved and fight together to preserve the principles of indivudual liberty!
karn3022 4 years ago 4
The way to start is voting Ron Paul, if you do not like him for some reason then you have Kucinich and Gravel. Do not let the media tell you they do not have a chance because that is how they control you.
Dumbell99 4 years ago
Give me a platoon of Marines and I'll go anywhere i damn please.
TDanza8 4 years ago
Anyone still claiming to be a Republican is a liar. What the F happened to my party?
Patheic.
pjt03 4 years ago 3
why don't these republicans just come clean and be honest. if they did that, they might have a chance in nov of 08.
why do they feel they have to continue to lie? don't they realize we americans (at least in the north & west who aren't aligned with the christian right) know what the hell is going on?
wntoply6 4 years ago 3
Read what the brave soldiers of the 82nd Airborne have to say about the war in an op-ed:
nytimes(dot)com/2007/08/19/opinion/19jayamaha.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
vrede420 4 years ago
Mommas Peace Rap is a look at the Iraq war through a mothers eyes....check it out...Peace
soundslikesouth1 4 years ago
even wolfs on the band wagon...about 3 years to late
deathpr111 4 years ago
Wolf Blitzer actually asking critical questions? How about doing this BEFORE the war started?
coldice76 4 years ago 8
If this guy realised finally the hell that the Republicans have created in Iraq for other human beings on this planet, he would probably be hanging from from a fan by his tie in his hotel room instead of lying on tv.
Kalper7 4 years ago 3
The Sanctions that smothered iraq for almost thirteen years, the treatment of the Iraqi people before that date, removed the stigma attached to the imprisonment of an entire nation and their steady "debilitation and the death under the UN sanction regime.when the Anglo-American occupiers settled into their palaces in Baghdad, they would blame the collapse of the electrical power,water-pumping stations, factories and commercial life on Saddam.
angham69 4 years ago
lol, yeah suddenly Iraq is doing 'just fine' so its ok to invade Iran now .....
WaistMyThyme 4 years ago
that is not like Wolf...he's always been a puppet...i wouldn't get too excited about a sliver of truth from this wolf.
radiofriendly 4 years ago
Way to go Wolf, It's not getting better in Iraq not matter how much the Republicans want to spin it
vmedia69 4 years ago 4
about time wolf grew some balls
xxironballzxx 4 years ago 3
Fuck that Fat Cat in Washington!
geojus1 4 years ago
WOW, Wolfy found his Balls!!
RBLA818 4 years ago
Eh, facts are facts.
sfmandrew 4 years ago
"But wolfe, I want to point out,that we don't give a damn how many lose their lives, Americans or Iraqis.
There is a plan to surge on and they're going to lie there way into it! PERIOD!
rushnout 4 years ago 3
correction
lie THEIR way!
rushnout 4 years ago
I wonder if Boustany is close to fellow GOP Louisana politician Vitter? Vitter was the guy who came forward when his number appeared on the DC Madam's phone records. One hooker said Vitter liked to wear diapers and be whipped! GOP, nothing but Grand Old Perverts! By the way, the Republicans gave Vitter a standing ovation when he came back, but they told Craig he had to leave right away- straight pervs are okay but Republicans sure do hate their gays!
asdffd 4 years ago
Boustany What an idiot even for a rethuglican
jmcguire30 4 years ago
Way to call the BS Wolf!
cjboog11 4 years ago
Where do they make these guys?
MonsterSound 4 years ago
He clearly said, "Sectarian deaths are down." Then he LIES when Wolf confronts him with the facts and says, "Well, I think what I mentioned earlier, Wolf, was the number of attacks." The people who still support pieces of shit like this guy- I'd like them to have their children taken from them and sent to Iraq to fight in the Iraqi Civil War. End this nonsense now. Give us some truth for once Boustany, you lying, Dubya worhipping piece of shit.
asdffd 4 years ago 4
Blizter is still a zionist most likely ; so we'll have to wait and see if people like him are going to do whats right and start speaking the truth.
gavingoo 4 years ago
Well this is a start.
laleeloolelo 4 years ago
Finally...god he must get so tired of not being able to voice his opinion.
TrevorPace 4 years ago 2
finally Wolf is doing some good journalism.
natural 4 years ago 2
Damn straight. Wolf has most often come across as spineless, likely because he has a poor command of the facts, but once he he has the facts it was nice to seem him willing to call bullshit on that lying Republican sack of shit.
asdffd 4 years ago 2
Dead people don't count, The progress is in the control of the oil. Making great progress there.
midwestcharm 4 years ago
The elite probably make far more lending money to the government for the purpose of war than through oil.
WaistMyThyme 4 years ago
How do you make a surge work? You just quit counting the dead.
clyde1952 4 years ago 2
Prior to a few mainstream journalists speaking out here recently, you could only get real news about Iraq on BBC - they have journalists embedded with our troops, telling it like it is. Great to see Wolf Blitzer go after this guy and his "facts." The propaganda machine never quits; when will Congress impeach BushCo? During Vietnam protests, we eventually had so many Americans in the streets, they brought our troops home - hopefully more will start protesting Iraq.
rebelbrew 4 years ago
Arent people starting to see through these talking points? They hardly ever change - and they have no relation to reality.
victor190779 4 years ago
a platoon of marines is what they call "improvement"? WTF is wrong in their heads?
mrmcgee210 4 years ago
his guy just blew my mind.
mrmcgee210 4 years ago
Boustany @ 10 sec : "sectarian deaths are down."
Boustany @ 43 sec : well, i, i think what i, mentioned earlier Wolf was number of attacks.
mrmcgee210 4 years ago 2
Walk the streets of Falluja...lol
Yeah..if you call running on ur knees walking...
Such Bull..We know what time it is disinfo agents!!
PeaceGod12 4 years ago
Yeah, Blitzer has regrown his manhood, and has joined the increasing number of journalists willing to call obvious BS what it is.
Just, why did they let BushCo get away with it for so long?
infrogmation 4 years ago
omg Wolf actually conducting himself as a journalist? You know it's an out and out lie when even Blitzer says something.
Anouke79 4 years ago 3
what a tool. a bush wrench, so to speak.
calloy811 4 years ago 2