As a socialist I hate democrats. They are the ones perpetuating the capitalist system through propping it up with progressive taxation, welfare, SS and propagandizing college education for the training of corporate employment. I vote republican because they want to let capitalism strangle itself. Which it always does as seen with the bank collapse. Also republicans want to ship jobs overseas which forces our economy into its inevitable hightech agrarian future.
I thought democratic socialism was a centre left ideology, the labour party in the United Kingdom are called a democratic socialist party and they are centre left. Can anybody help????
I really love chomsky and am starting to like zinn to. I think if the government started to promote more democratic worker owned companies like worker cooperatives and employee stock companies and stopped backing undemocratic corporations that would be a good thing. back cooperatives in all forms, workers, housing, educational, etc.
He suggests we need freer movement for people over borders. Interesting since we are closing down borders in the age of Homeland Security as we remove borders for businesses that want to exploit cheaper labor. It makes sense: otherwise people will try to follow their jobs as they get exported to cheaper countries. .
@jolow2 That's my complaint, chiefly. There's nothing there. Just blind accusations you picked up while listened to somebody who rakes in millions a year doing talk radio or something.
Full of violent emotion, and no substance.
"Oh noes...the elites are coming to get us all" so says the guy who writes the book and then promotes the book on the radio and tv and rakes in upwards of $15 million a year doing it. "buy my book. save your country from the elites." Elites my ass.
You are absolutely right sir. Now, how do we convince the Tea Partiers to vote for what is good for them for a change???? We have a population who is so backward and brainwashed that what you are talking about is looked upon as BAD for the workers. I think this is very sad, and I don't know if there is anything we will ever be able to do about it.
I wish we could set up a society this way, but sorry to say power and money do what they want. At the rate were going well be slaves soon. Especially if Globalization occurs a one world dictatorial role. No Thank you. I'll stick to fixing my own countries problems first. Lead by example.
@fallenempireoverdrve Thank you! I am well aware of that speech, and well aware of the term. As a citizen from outside USA, it struck me that "libertarian" could have such a different meaning. Real libertarianism is libertarian socialism is classical anarchism. Libertarians strike against illegitimate power no matter which form. Real libertarians also strike against all kinds of "newspeak"!
@jettrink60 Dzerzhinsky was Polish, Lenin was of Swedish, German and Russian stock and Stalin (the one with the highest body count) was Georgian. I don't care if someone's Jewish or not Jewish, it's idiotic and dangerous to associate an ethnicity with murder, how the hell was Howard Zinn a murderer?
I hate how when we talk about communism for example, we have to say "excluding in the sense of the soviet union". Just like with minarchism, which advocates the reduction of government; The only things you hear about it are people talking about more freedom for corporations. With anarchism, it's associated with chaos.
Everything is getting so confused. People really need clarification.
I hope Zinn's ideas never become reality...but only so that I can see all of the commenters below suffer the indignity that comes with living in the type of society we have now.
All you zinn followers are delusional.Ive watched several of zinn interviews and read some comments and come to the only conclusion that one could.Its like you all are in a fantasy and you babble about crazy commuines and no laws.Utter madness.Its almost to hard to believe.A society that hangs out,gets high and does whatever they want and that rely on huge gov.to take care of them.That not the world I want to live in.You are like a cult.
And I want to fly like a bird, swim like a dolphin, burrow like a snake, jump like a kangaroo, and think like Einstein. That's my philosophy of what humans should be like. Oh, you want to know how that's possible? Well, I haven't thought that far ahead.
This man is an idealist. This video irrevocably proves it. After his bombardier career with the 8th Air Force over, this man spent the next 6 decades in a university setting, insulated from everyday life and yet judging it all the same.
As noble as his goals sound, I think even leftists would agree with me on the point that they are unrealistic, at least for the foreseeable future.
11 Million Americans served in the military during WWII. You dont have much to say about them...nor the millions of Americans that Zinns version of history slanders
and demeans..you have nothing to say about THAT..only Howie Zinn the pathological liar gets all this special treatment. Why not concentrate on Zinns
unique character..as a poisoner of gullible minds, a distorter of facts
Read my comment again. I was not praising Zinn. Rather I was saying, albeit politely, that he was out of touch. He ignored key aspects of history in blatant revisionism. I think you're confusing me with the pro-Zinn trolls here.
First read Zinn's People's History. Then read the Patriot's History. You will see just how frequently Zinn omits critical information in an effort to demonstrate class struggle.
@RavingDissension I think its also very important to read Zinn's opening chapter, which clearly and equivocally states that he intends to leave things out. As all history is really an act of omission, Zinn is very upfront about it. The only reason that this is controversial is that he omits what is traditionally includes, and includes what is traditionally excluded. A reading of ALL sides of history is extremely important, only from that can you make a true judgement.
History is a collection of truths and facts. Books like the People's History are not in fact history, but arguments, since their validity is at best, up for debate. I would say the same for the Patriot's History.
Now, Zinn presumes that declaring bias him free reign to exhibit it. That admitting his Marxist tendencies somehow exonerates the fact that he will incorporate personal predispositions into his arguments.
Because of this, his credibility has waned as of late.
@RavingDissension Truth and facts... maintained by those who are in power. I think it was Orwell who says, paraphrasing, he who controls the present, controls the past. Now, writing falsifications could quickly be refuted. But when omitting certain historical events, which Zinn includes in his People's histories, the powers-that-be are controlling the flow of information, creating a one-sided bias. Thus, it may be a collection of truths and facts, but shares the agenda of the historian.
It is objective and self descriptive. But i guess to specify you could say multinational corporations and government states of the world and in a more general sense those who have abandoned Altruism altogether and choose to embrace the human element of selfishness. This is logical and natural because certainly a truly altruistic person would never seek power over another.
there is no good and evil. only selfless and selfish.
@thenoorys So, a true altruist is an anarchist? A true altruist wouldn't parent his children? Or, do these examples not fall into the category "seeks power over another"?
2. Parenting is simply caring for a child it is altruistic even if power over one must sometimes be exerted. But are we to be parented by our politicians, adults my equal, what can they do to protect me from myself and how can they mandate it on a national level.
@thenoorys Adult your equal? In what respect? Certainly an established politician know more than you about politics? And, it's easier to coach someone else than to push yourself. I think politicians should act more like coaches than bureaucrats, that is to says they should give more advice relative to the amount of laws they give, work with the attitudes and the spirit of the people. Furthermore, sentralized power is an acceptable tool for solving problems like collective irrationailty.
socialism? globalism? this all sounds very scary to me...sure it works on paper, but when you add the human element to the equation, you realize that socialism can never work on a large scale.....i like his freedom message though.
i assume your american because it works in Canada, England, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark. Your just rehashing the bullshit American euphemism that it just dosn't work.
@djtanner66 No i just don't think it's moral...I do not think it is okay for someone else, no matter their title of nobility, to take and use your money in any way, no matter how noble you may think it is....voluntary exchange is the only way to go about it
personal responsibility should take over and we should all volunteer, and we should rely on families friends and churches to take care of our problems..instead of relying on some monolithic government
@djtanner66 The countries you mentioned aren't socialist. They're social democracies, and they are rolling back on these programs because they are going bankrupt.
Is this Zinn guy for real? He smoked too much of the wacky weed in his younger days. He doesn't understand freedom and what it takes to preserve a republic.
@jolow2 He's naive. He has an idealistic image of democracy. He thinks our problems are caused because we don't have enough democracy, not too much. I would say just wait till we are in economic ruin, but I doubt even then he would realize; I see people like djtanner66 saying "Socialism works in Europe", when in fact, Europe is on the brink of societal suicide. Where the hell is it working? It's not blindness-it's the refusal to see.
What is your lack of understanding about a simple comment you obviously disagree with, that you need clarification? Would you like me to write a more detailed critique so you can comprehend? Are you smoking now? lol
@jolow2 Because you made a blunt statement with no content to back that up, it's an incredibly easy thing to brush off someone's ideas as those belonging to a lunatic or pothead, you believe that Zinn doesn't understand the concepts of freedom and the preservation of a republic (which you're right, because he's dead), so to the benefit of those who have not yet expired, can you please tell us where he was wrong when addressing these apparent necessary truths?
Zinn himself says the realization of these goals cannot be immediate. It is wishful thinking used as a backdrop or measure of what he would like to see. I might like to see a world styled more like Zinns utopia, but he leaves us with the "hope and change" emotional illusion, and we all know where that has got us. He offers no practical, real world advice to achieve these feel good statements, and he can't.
@jolow2 No achievement of any goal is immediate, you aren't a graduate the second you are born, you graduate through a transitional process that's called education, again like the pot smoking analogy you label his ideas as utopian, Howard Zinn was an activist pre and post prominence, but he was primarily an analyst and historian, he believed in democratic socialism and said that this comes through mass struggle, this isn't an original answer which already exists, so the answer is in activism.
Freedom to the individual is not granted by communistic or socialistic entities. The state is all important, but he talks about freedom anyway. As far as the preservation of a republic......... difficult when erasing borders and "equalizing" wealth. Sovereignty is abolished when the "world" decides the fate of your country and the laws you abide by. I assume you are NOT dead, so please reply.
@jolow2 Freedom is definable by the individual, it's a transient and impermanent and the socialist environment has no real answer for what freedom actually is, and neither do you, me, a libertarian or social democratic state. There's a common misconception that your personal property would be distributed among the masses, unless we're talking about Pol Pot this isn't true, it's collective ownership of the means of production, so a publicly governed state and publicly controlled factories etc...
. "There's a common misconception that your personal property would be distributed among the masses"
Aren't wages and profit personal property to be distributed according to the dictates of the powers that be? We are taxed in order to fund social programs, subsidies, and general "entitlements" a form of wealth distribution to the masses. The logic that my car or clothes belong to me is of little comfort. I like the definition of freedom as defined by the Constitution. .....Impermanent?
@jolow2 Impermanent, the Constitution itself is never fixed, the abolition of slavery itself in the 14th amendment is a prime example of that, the Constitution exists as long as people are there to want it to exist, you are entitled to your freedom and this is based on the writings of Locke 400 years ago, Locke said that it's your natural right to have life, liberty and the pursuit of property, maybe that evolves in to something more over the centuries such as the right to life and comfort.
You're right, the constitution is not fixed, but it takes more than an act of Congress to change it, and so it should. I am entitled to my freedom, and that comes from GOD, not Locke or someones definition of freedom. If it "evolves" to the right to comfort someone has to pay for that which takes someones economic freedom.
Now, have I explained my original blunt statement or do you need more?
@jolow2 I'm sure God cares more about your economic freedom than the 40m+ Americans without free healthcare in a country with the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. Jesus would have just loved seeing the sub par private healthcare system and the bare minimum wage, after all profit and usury were two key pillars of our Lord's teachings for salvation. You do realise that your concept of God and freedom is natural law which is what John Locke helped conceive right?
When did Jesus ever advocate confiscating money from one GROUP and redistributing it to another?
He spoke about INDIVIDUAL salvation, not collective. Yes, I realize God and freedom are natural laws. I thought I inferred that by my statement, but I guess it didn't translate.
It might be hard for foreigners to understand, but
Obamacare has MUCH more to do with POWER and CONTROL than health care. Much of it has NOTHING to do with the well being of the populace, but it is a HUGE power grab by the elite. It was passed with thuggery and deception just like the stimulus
@jolow2 Yes...because your post was full of facts... C'mon. Conspiracy theories fueled by ranting talking heads does not equal facts-- just a highly potent form of bullshit imbued with whiny hot-headedness.
@jolow2 Just calling you out on your baseless claims regarding power grabs and mysterious elites taking over healthcare (because of course there are no legitimate issues with our current health care system. It's the best in the world!)
This is not the foundation for a real discussion on a complex subject. I'm not interested in delving into stupid conspiracy theories propagated by big TV personalities (who aren't even journalists). They get paid loads of money for talking BS, and we don't.
I've gone over my posts. I THINK you are referring to my comment about Obamacare as a power grab. Is that it? I stand firmly behind that statement. If you don't understand that don't tell me how baseless it seems to you. You're really not as intelligent as you try to make me believe.
@ehunter2 You clearly know nothing of Zinn, he grow up in a working class family and worked in a ship building yard. He was a member of the union, and dealt with many different issues there. Zinn also served in the Second World War as a bombardier, and then he went to school after that. Read a little before you open your mouth.
@ehunter2 He was exceptionally secular, I have never heard him use any kind religious language, and furthermore he was a fierce critic of Israeli policy. He was committed to a form of anarcho-socialism, which whether you support it or not is a legitimate political belief. And finally he was a more consistent critic of the USSR than the US government, as he argued that their actions were immoral, and not simply illegal (as your government stated). Please read before you speak.
@ehunter2 So your problem with Zinn geminates from a hatred of the Jewish race? And I'm wondering now what your problem is with attempting to improve the plight of people while they live? It would be nice to assume things get better after death, but why not make it the best it can be right now?
Not quite..my problem with Jews is that every Communist movement
every espionage ring in the USA, every Hollywood studio, every news network almost all of Academia and almost every investment
fraud scheme has been run by Jews. Pretty remarkable for a group of people that make up no more than 2% of the population. CARE TO DEBATE THE FACTS CLOWN?
@ehunter2 A) I haven't given my opinion on anything as of yet, I merely defended Zinn from an unfounded attack. B) What evidence do you have that the GOVERNMENT of the US is "fundamentally good and just"? Of course Zinn believed the people were good and just, in fact thats what his entire thesis is. C) I would argue that you are more conditioned then I am, because I can look at what the US does and walk away saying what is right and wrong, you believe its always right.
You have given your unemphatic opinion. You believe 100% in the philosophy of
Coddled Adolescent Naivete. Nothing ever gets in the way of your compulsive need to play teenage rebel trying to find out "hypocrisy" amongst the adults. Get a job. Enter the real world. Try to do something..anything...you will find that
nothing is perfect, nothing is even "right" . At best it suffices. In the real world..the one Zinn never entered, the USAs accomplishments are stupendous.
@ehunter2 I have yet to give my opinion, you don't know whether I have entered the work force or not and your talk of the "real" world is so vague and non-discript that its irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that its not difficult to "find out" the hypocrisy, its blatantly obvious. And just because nothing "is perfect" doesn't mean that does not mean that we should give up trying to fix it, especially when some solutions are so clearly obvious. Furthermore name a lie yet?..... NO YOU DIDN'T
@ehunter2 You really are out of your depth my friend. The US government has formerly apologized for its role in the overthrow of Mossadegh, even TIME Magazine reported it. The declassified CIA documents reveal that the US government lied through its teeth on every aspect of the Vietnam War, even the alleged Gulf of Tunkin. Over military bases in over 100 countries around the world and thats not an empire? US capitalists attempted to over democratically elected governments in Venezuela, Bolivia
@ehunter2 And I don't think that I'm a mystery, merely that you're casting incorrect assertions on who I am, and what I have lived through. I'm no rebel at all, I'm within the mainstream of globe opinion (as far as it can be judged), and I hardly think I'm a genius, only that I'm open minded. Clearly to a great extent as I've tolerated this discussion, and given you many opportunities to actually refute Zinn's premises rather then say they're wrong and think you've made an effective argument.
@ehunter2 I also feel it would be more productive if the ad hominen attacks were to end, so that we could discuss the real issues. Not what you perceive me to be or not be. If you wish to continue to attack my intelligence feel free, but lets both recognize that it does nothing to advance the conversation.
Because your definition of "best it can be" is so highly fraudulent, so narrow
so out of touch with reality that it simply labels you as a mindlessly conditioned robot. A pure product of propaganda. And the fact that you have no clue about all
@ehunter2 Okay, you are clearly trolling, I had already told you, Zinn worked in the shipping industry building ships for a decade. Which in the '20's was no easy job. He served in the Air Force in WWII (have you ever been in the military?). He never attempted to subvert the "USA", he presented the actions of the government from the perspective of it victims. So you could say he undermined the government's interests but those aren't the same as the general population.
millions of people ..ie. Zinn served in the military, Zinn had a difficult
job..MILLIONS of people have done that THEN you use this..pump it full
of sentimental hot air and use it to excuse a fvking raging psychopath and
pathological liar who spent 6 decades distorting history and duping the young and gullible....and then you demand intellectual respect...Dismissed moron, dismissed
@ehunter2 A) Just because millions of people served in the military doesn't lessen the fact that Zinn DID work, and you've again skated over the fact that he worked in a ship-building yard, and that he even lead the union there. B) You've yet to list a lie that Zinn spread, quantify your statements. C) Why do you think the people you grew up with are so patriotic? If you can't examine your own social situation in an unbiased way thats not the fault of the people that attempt to help the poor.
Why are they so patriotic? Because the see the USA as fundamentally GOOD and JUST place..and they came to that opinion from their immediate experience in life.
Zinn on the other hand is a psychopath..nothing in real life ever made him question his ideology and his ideology was a projection of his sub conscious
@ehunter2 Zinn was always very clear about his intentions. He wanted to promote democratic socialism in the US, but was a strong critic of the Soviet Union. You're attacking him because you don't agree with his philosophy, since you have no interest in trying to understand it. The truth is that many of the freedoms you enjoy today came about because of Zinn and his comrades. But you can't admit that, because you think he's a damn commie.
Howard Zinn doesnt have a "philosophy"..he has no intellectual integrity..he only has one obsessive goal..to subvert the USA by whatever means possible,
twist history by ignoring context, exploit ignorant 20somethings with
half truths, invent words like "social justice" that disquise his pathological
hatreds...Yo cannot dig 1/2" inch into real history and not expose Zinn ...there isn nothing to "understand" about he man
@Zatzzo Shall we start at the beginning. How about Zinns depiction of the
New World Indians as inhabiting a paradise of love peace and tolerance
until the big bad white man came and ruined it all. No mention of Aztecs
ripping the living hearts out of sacrificial victims who were enslaved fellow indians, no mention of the 7 story pile of skulls in the heart of Mexico City.
No mention that after 50,000 yeasr of occupying the North America Indians
Capitalism is the final chapter in historic evolution of THE TYRANNY OF PRIVATE PROPERTY RELATIONSHIP of alienation,exploitation and suffering of humanity, a Market mechanism where minority interest is the NEGATION OF OUR COMMON HUMANITY IN COOPERATION and HARMONY. We shall overcome the structure of minority power and oppression and reclaim our planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being, expressing our energetic creative potentials in freedom of being.
Capitalism is the wage slavery of immense humanity in a politically manipulated,tyrannical MARKET MECHANISM of artificial scarcity to perpetuate the conditions of servitude and compliance in the interest of the OWNING/RULING CLASS. Capitalism in State dictatorship or Corporate Fascism modality is a monetary control,suppression and deception of the Working Class across the world. We need to reclaim our lives,our Planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being.
I agree with his points. Communism itself is a nice ideal. But due to human nature (and it's track record up till now), the people at the top always keep the good things for themselves. While the rest suffer.
In 2010, it's astounding to me that we have lots of nationalized industries in the States. We even have a Socialst Senator. But we're forbidden to say the word Socialist.
you're right about the people at the top keeping things in spite of the poor.....we can limit the negative aspects of human nature like greed with a strong democracy. our country is so corrupt because we have a limited democracy and a powerful corporate system. the only way you can limit private power and business-motivated government is to have a supreme democracy
This is the opposite of what America was founded on and what the constitution stands for how can someone want to change America into this type of thinking if you are a socialist fine then please bring your thinking into another country, We are free to make choices and free to believe what we want because it is America but please we were founded on a constitution and that is what we should follow. I have my freedoms and capitalism as my country was founded on and please do not take those away
@flanmanflannery If you're all about freedom why does he have to take his thinking to another country thats not free at all. Zinn wants freedom from corrupt government and corporate interest he is preaching peace.
@justbrandon666 He believes in socialism, America was founded on capitalism. Why would you try to change this system we created capitalism to get away from the big government of the british if you want to go back to this way of thinking then shouldnt you go to a country that already has this in affect than try to change the capitalist views that have worked so well in america. we have learned from the past anytime there is more government there is less freedom and the country is worse off
@flanmanflannery Exactly that's why he's talking about using concepts from the philosophy of anarchy because all governments do is declare war and oppress people. Socialism isn't big government ownership of anything it is simply democracy in the workplace. The workers own their company and vote on what they want to do instead of one person running everything.
@flanmanflannery yeah. just look at those scandinavian countries. biggest governments (relative to economy) in the world and regular hell holes to live in. uneducated, unhappy populace, low life expectancy, low literacy rates, low earners, slow-growing, weak economies...
I agree with Howard Zinn. To be practical, I'm a social democrat that supports a European-social democracy type system, I live in Canada but I believe that to go further education should also be completely free (I think it is free in Finland and the gov't pays college students money to rent their own apartment,etc).
In theory as a end-goal, definitely I'm a social anarchist. Anarchism to me is summarized by "skepticism towards all forms of authority, whether of the state, church, or parents."
@dougIassbickford: Nope; as I am not Immanuel Kant and thus do not uphold the believe that all human development and abilities are bound to the blood; but I do not believe that the blood is without influence, so I stand in the Aristotelian middle between those two extremes; but as the word you charged me with is considered evil by the current political orthodoxy I do not fear it as I reject the current political orthodoxy.
"We see exactly the opposite with the noble man, who conceives the fundamental idea good in advance and spontaneously, that is, from himself and from there first creates a picture of bad for himself! This bad originating from the noble man and that evil arising out of the stew pot of insatiable hatred of these the first is a later creation, an afterthought, a complementary colour; by contrast, the second is the original, the beginning, the essential act of conception in slave ...
... morality although the two words bad and evil both seem opposite to the same idea of good, how different they are! But it is not the same idea of good; it is much rather a question of who the evil man really is, in the sense of the morality of ressentiment. The strict answer to that is as follows: simply the good man of the other morality, the noble man, the powerful, the ruling man, only coloured over, only reinterpreted, only seen through the poisonous eyes of ressentiment. ...
Here there is one thing we will be the last to deny: the man who gets to know these good men only as enemies, knows them also as nothing but evil enemies, and the same good men who are kept within strict limits by custom, honour, habit, thankfulness, even more by mutual protection, through jealousy inter pares and who, by contrast, demonstrate in relation to each other such resourceful consideration, self-control, refinement, loyalty, pride, and friendship towards the outside, where the ...
... strange world, the world of foreigners, begins, these men are not much better than beasts of prey turned loose. There they enjoy freedom from all social constraints. In the wilderness they make up for the tension which a long fenced-in confinement within the peace of the community brings about. They go back to the innocent consciousness of a wild beast of prey, as joyful monsters, who perhaps walk away from a dreadful sequence of murder, arson, rape, and torture with an exhilaration and ...
... spiritual equilibrium, as if they had merely pulled off a student prank, convinced that the poets now once again have something to sing about and praise for a long time to come. At the bottom of all these noble races we cannot fail to recognize the beast of prey, the blond beast splendidly roaming around in its lust for loot and victory. This hidden basis from time to time needs to be discharged: the animal must come out again, must go back into the wilderness, Roman, German, Japanese ...
... nobility, Homeric heroes, Scandinavian Vikings in this need they are all alike. It is the noble races which left behind the concept of the barbarian in all their tracks, wherever they went. A consciousness of and even a pride in this fact still reveals itself in their highest culture (for example, when Pericles says to his Athenians, in that famous Funeral Speech, our audacity has broken a way through to every land and sea, putting up permanent memorials to itself for good and ill). ...
... This audacity of the noble races, mad, absurd, sudden in the way it expresses itself, its unpredictability, even the improbability of its undertakings Pericles emphatically praises the rayhumia [mental balance, freedom from anxiety] of the Athenians their indifference to and contempt for safety, body, life, comfort, their fearsome cheerfulness and the depth of their joy in all destruction, in all the physical pleasures of victory and cruelty everything summed up for those who suffer ...
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As a socialist I hate democrats. They are the ones perpetuating the capitalist system through propping it up with progressive taxation, welfare, SS and propagandizing college education for the training of corporate employment. I vote republican because they want to let capitalism strangle itself. Which it always does as seen with the bank collapse. Also republicans want to ship jobs overseas which forces our economy into its inevitable hightech agrarian future.
ped200014 1 day ago
please listen to the song "the epic tale of Pat Tillman and i" by the band Independence 76. Its on their website and very powerful.
hdnc11 1 week ago
Chomsky, Zinn, and Vidal are my favorite thinkers. Very logical, clear, enlightened and knowledgeable.
Econiodide 1 month ago
"democratic socialism" is so vague it means nothing.
kingofcrunk1010 2 months ago
@kingofcrunk1010
listen to the words Zinn is saying, this is democratic socialism
ResolutionismTube 1 month ago
I thought democratic socialism was a centre left ideology, the labour party in the United Kingdom are called a democratic socialist party and they are centre left. Can anybody help????
23lFrench 2 months ago
@23lFrench
the labour party of the UK started as a reform socialist party but is now a social liberal party.
kingofcrunk1010 2 months ago
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Howard Zinn = Economic illiterate
USTreasuryBond 2 months ago
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USTreasuryBond 2 months ago
I really love chomsky and am starting to like zinn to. I think if the government started to promote more democratic worker owned companies like worker cooperatives and employee stock companies and stopped backing undemocratic corporations that would be a good thing. back cooperatives in all forms, workers, housing, educational, etc.
Spillers72 2 months ago 9
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@Spillers72
The government should have no business backing either.
TheBoomstickhero 2 months ago
@Spillers72 yuck that would be awful.
USTreasuryBond 2 months ago
He suggests we need freer movement for people over borders. Interesting since we are closing down borders in the age of Homeland Security as we remove borders for businesses that want to exploit cheaper labor. It makes sense: otherwise people will try to follow their jobs as they get exported to cheaper countries. .
iamcompucomp 4 months ago
john cusack watched this so it has to be good
XxxBookreviewerXxx 4 months ago 2
Keep sucking on your bottle of kool-aid. You're posts are so weak.
jolow2 5 months ago
@jolow2 Your use of catch-phrases isn't helping. "Obamcare", "kool-aid"... "zippity-do-da."
still smells.
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
@iridescentsquids
I wanted to make it understandable and simple enough for even you to comprehend complex issues.
Yippee aye oh cay ya
jolow2 5 months ago
@jolow2 That's my complaint, chiefly. There's nothing there. Just blind accusations you picked up while listened to somebody who rakes in millions a year doing talk radio or something.
Full of violent emotion, and no substance.
"Oh noes...the elites are coming to get us all" so says the guy who writes the book and then promotes the book on the radio and tv and rakes in upwards of $15 million a year doing it. "buy my book. save your country from the elites." Elites my ass.
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
@iridescentsquids
WTF? You are some kind of whack job
jolow2 5 months ago
@jolow2 Yea, right. I'm sure you came up with all of your brilliant idea all by yourself.
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
You are absolutely right sir. Now, how do we convince the Tea Partiers to vote for what is good for them for a change???? We have a population who is so backward and brainwashed that what you are talking about is looked upon as BAD for the workers. I think this is very sad, and I don't know if there is anything we will ever be able to do about it.
purpurpledog8 5 months ago
I wish we could set up a society this way, but sorry to say power and money do what they want. At the rate were going well be slaves soon. Especially if Globalization occurs a one world dictatorial role. No Thank you. I'll stick to fixing my own countries problems first. Lead by example.
ThebirdmanTrainer 5 months ago
kinda sounds like noam chomskys "libritarian socialism "
fallenempireoverdrve 6 months ago
@fallenempireoverdrve
"Libertarian socialism"? =)
RSFO 5 months ago
@RSFO if your interested /watch?v=wriQGI5NGOM
fallenempireoverdrve 5 months ago
@fallenempireoverdrve Thank you! I am well aware of that speech, and well aware of the term. As a citizen from outside USA, it struck me that "libertarian" could have such a different meaning. Real libertarianism is libertarian socialism is classical anarchism. Libertarians strike against illegitimate power no matter which form. Real libertarians also strike against all kinds of "newspeak"!
RSFO 5 months ago
@RSFO agreed
fallenempireoverdrve 5 months ago
Works in Australia
tanisfilms 6 months ago
@jettrink60 Dzerzhinsky was Polish, Lenin was of Swedish, German and Russian stock and Stalin (the one with the highest body count) was Georgian. I don't care if someone's Jewish or not Jewish, it's idiotic and dangerous to associate an ethnicity with murder, how the hell was Howard Zinn a murderer?
JakCei 6 months ago
@jettrink60 And to reduce and judge someone down to their ethnicity is what had Jews murdered in Europe too.
JakCei 6 months ago
it is great to see him on YT, glad we have this source..since he is gone but the legacy is forever..it is sad that he was the last man standing..
alinn71 6 months ago
I hate how when we talk about communism for example, we have to say "excluding in the sense of the soviet union". Just like with minarchism, which advocates the reduction of government; The only things you hear about it are people talking about more freedom for corporations. With anarchism, it's associated with chaos.
Everything is getting so confused. People really need clarification.
Crabbensmasher 6 months ago
@babayabadabadu You think I OWE you a reply. hahaha! Keep your hand extended in great expectation. Typical commie.
schizotypalgrasp 7 months ago
@babayabadabadu Ever notice how the laziest commies are also the most vile?
schizotypalgrasp 7 months ago
eat a dick bitch
rallotubbs1 7 months ago
The more educated and selfless you are the more you lean to the ideals of the left.
sid8980 7 months ago
Being a social democrat>>>>>>>>> being a democratic socialist.
Sweden> Chile (those 2 years or whatever lol)
TheEthanwashere 7 months ago
idiot lol jk but seriously idealistic
matters5 8 months ago
I hope Zinn's ideas never become reality...but only so that I can see all of the commenters below suffer the indignity that comes with living in the type of society we have now.
WishCRUS4D3R 8 months ago
All you zinn followers are delusional.Ive watched several of zinn interviews and read some comments and come to the only conclusion that one could.Its like you all are in a fantasy and you babble about crazy commuines and no laws.Utter madness.Its almost to hard to believe.A society that hangs out,gets high and does whatever they want and that rely on huge gov.to take care of them.That not the world I want to live in.You are like a cult.
biwon 8 months ago
Where does Zinn get off TAKING my effort and giving it to another person who is clearly unwilling (not unable) to go after their own dreams?
Piss off, old man.
schizotypalgrasp 8 months ago
I love this guy
alderete74 9 months ago
I love this guy
alderete74 9 months ago
hello: youtube.com/user/TenezLeDroitt
TenezLeDroitt 9 months ago
If someone beside you controls your life, what difference does it make on which contininent he resides?
Dumbass
guitmusy 10 months ago
this guy is a hack
global society means someone on a different continent will control your life.
dumbass...
ZamolxisReborn 10 months ago
just a little senile, maybe?
jpmusick 10 months ago
And I want to fly like a bird, swim like a dolphin, burrow like a snake, jump like a kangaroo, and think like Einstein. That's my philosophy of what humans should be like. Oh, you want to know how that's possible? Well, I haven't thought that far ahead.
educheny 11 months ago
I think I love him
tarjay35 11 months ago
love mr. zinn
rip
hell0kittyhk 11 months ago
Obama should watch this.
whereismybailouttv 11 months ago
Amazing philosophy..amazing human being you will be missed professor Zinn
gavilan89 11 months ago
how do you get rid of corruption?
Madfoot713 11 months ago
@Madfoot713 tax it
000sauce000 9 months ago
I JUST FOUND HE DIED!!!! ... My heart just broke...
ymatmband 1 year ago
This man is an idealist. This video irrevocably proves it. After his bombardier career with the 8th Air Force over, this man spent the next 6 decades in a university setting, insulated from everyday life and yet judging it all the same.
As noble as his goals sound, I think even leftists would agree with me on the point that they are unrealistic, at least for the foreseeable future.
RavingDissension 1 year ago
@RavingDissension
11 Million Americans served in the military during WWII. You dont have much to say about them...nor the millions of Americans that Zinns version of history slanders
and demeans..you have nothing to say about THAT..only Howie Zinn the pathological liar gets all this special treatment. Why not concentrate on Zinns
unique character..as a poisoner of gullible minds, a distorter of facts
and a life long Communist
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2
Read my comment again. I was not praising Zinn. Rather I was saying, albeit politely, that he was out of touch. He ignored key aspects of history in blatant revisionism. I think you're confusing me with the pro-Zinn trolls here.
RavingDissension 1 year ago
@RavingDissension
You are still being far far "to polite". The very notion that Zinn was "out of
touch" allows you completely avoid what is going on here. Zinn represents
a major trend of thought..the same type of thinking via Political Correctness
that has moved to the center of national thinking. Zinns philosophy powers
the mass media, mass education, Academia, and now the Federal Govt.
Via mass immigration it is destroying the demographics that made America
and turning it Third World
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2
First read Zinn's People's History. Then read the Patriot's History. You will see just how frequently Zinn omits critical information in an effort to demonstrate class struggle.
RavingDissension 1 year ago
@RavingDissension I think its also very important to read Zinn's opening chapter, which clearly and equivocally states that he intends to leave things out. As all history is really an act of omission, Zinn is very upfront about it. The only reason that this is controversial is that he omits what is traditionally includes, and includes what is traditionally excluded. A reading of ALL sides of history is extremely important, only from that can you make a true judgement.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
History is a collection of truths and facts. Books like the People's History are not in fact history, but arguments, since their validity is at best, up for debate. I would say the same for the Patriot's History.
Now, Zinn presumes that declaring bias him free reign to exhibit it. That admitting his Marxist tendencies somehow exonerates the fact that he will incorporate personal predispositions into his arguments.
Because of this, his credibility has waned as of late.
RavingDissension 1 year ago
@RavingDissension Truth and facts... maintained by those who are in power. I think it was Orwell who says, paraphrasing, he who controls the present, controls the past. Now, writing falsifications could quickly be refuted. But when omitting certain historical events, which Zinn includes in his People's histories, the powers-that-be are controlling the flow of information, creating a one-sided bias. Thus, it may be a collection of truths and facts, but shares the agenda of the historian.
jordancn 1 year ago
@jordancn
I'm curious. Who exactly are the powers-that-be?
RavingDissension 1 year ago
@RavingDissension Good...finally...he's dead.
Now rest in piss...
ASentinel2 1 year ago
@ASentinel2
"Good...finally...he's dead."
Are you implying that I actually wanted him dead?
RavingDissension 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RavingDissension I say we are better off without the dirtbag...
Are you still confused? Piss on his grave... did that get it?
How about this? "dead man in a box..." Perhaps you would understand "dust to shit, back to dust..."
ASentinel2 1 year ago
@RavingDissension
It is objective and self descriptive. But i guess to specify you could say multinational corporations and government states of the world and in a more general sense those who have abandoned Altruism altogether and choose to embrace the human element of selfishness. This is logical and natural because certainly a truly altruistic person would never seek power over another.
there is no good and evil. only selfless and selfish.
thenoorys 1 year ago
@thenoorys
I made a lot of comments so what are you referring to as "objective and self descriptive"?
RavingDissension 1 year ago
@thenoorys So, a true altruist is an anarchist? A true altruist wouldn't parent his children? Or, do these examples not fall into the category "seeks power over another"?
Pomme843 1 year ago
@Pomme843
1. I've come to believe just that yes.
2. Parenting is simply caring for a child it is altruistic even if power over one must sometimes be exerted. But are we to be parented by our politicians, adults my equal, what can they do to protect me from myself and how can they mandate it on a national level.
thenoorys 1 year ago
@thenoorys Adult your equal? In what respect? Certainly an established politician know more than you about politics? And, it's easier to coach someone else than to push yourself. I think politicians should act more like coaches than bureaucrats, that is to says they should give more advice relative to the amount of laws they give, work with the attitudes and the spirit of the people. Furthermore, sentralized power is an acceptable tool for solving problems like collective irrationailty.
Pomme843 1 year ago
@RavingDissension
Zinn isnt "missing" anything. His destruction of America is deliberate and he
uses high sounding ideals "social democracy" "social Justice" "equality" to do it.
It is precisely the same vocabulary used by every Communist thats come along.
Of course the Zinn-morons are so ill educated that they know no history, and cant even see through Zinns most glaring lies.
ehunter2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
He believes in the New World Order. Unfortunately so do the corporations who will bring it.
Sheeplvl2 1 year ago
He believes in the New World Order. Unfortunately so do corporations.
Sheeplvl2 1 year ago
socialism? globalism? this all sounds very scary to me...sure it works on paper, but when you add the human element to the equation, you realize that socialism can never work on a large scale.....i like his freedom message though.
kommon12Cents 1 year ago
i assume your american because it works in Canada, England, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark. Your just rehashing the bullshit American euphemism that it just dosn't work.
djtanner66 1 year ago 15
@djtanner66 No i just don't think it's moral...I do not think it is okay for someone else, no matter their title of nobility, to take and use your money in any way, no matter how noble you may think it is....voluntary exchange is the only way to go about it
personal responsibility should take over and we should all volunteer, and we should rely on families friends and churches to take care of our problems..instead of relying on some monolithic government
kommon12Cents 1 year ago
@djtanner66
Actually your socialist paradises, Greece, Portugal, France, Italy, Spain
are all filing for bankruptcy. They cultures are disintergrating through mass
immigration of the One World kind that Zinn propagandized about. But then
that was what Zinn was really about..destroying the West.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 How is the American economy doing? Are you out of the recession yet?
sweiland75 9 months ago
@djtanner66 The countries you mentioned aren't socialist. They're social democracies, and they are rolling back on these programs because they are going bankrupt.
GoingGoingGalt 7 months ago
@GoingGoingGalt
Is this Zinn guy for real? He smoked too much of the wacky weed in his younger days. He doesn't understand freedom and what it takes to preserve a republic.
jolow2 6 months ago
@jolow2 He's naive. He has an idealistic image of democracy. He thinks our problems are caused because we don't have enough democracy, not too much. I would say just wait till we are in economic ruin, but I doubt even then he would realize; I see people like djtanner66 saying "Socialism works in Europe", when in fact, Europe is on the brink of societal suicide. Where the hell is it working? It's not blindness-it's the refusal to see.
GoingGoingGalt 6 months ago
@jolow2 Maybe you smoked too much as well seeing as you can't formulate a constructive critique.
JakCei 6 months ago
@JakCei
What is your lack of understanding about a simple comment you obviously disagree with, that you need clarification? Would you like me to write a more detailed critique so you can comprehend? Are you smoking now? lol
jolow2 6 months ago
Comment removed
JakCei 6 months ago
@jolow2 Because you made a blunt statement with no content to back that up, it's an incredibly easy thing to brush off someone's ideas as those belonging to a lunatic or pothead, you believe that Zinn doesn't understand the concepts of freedom and the preservation of a republic (which you're right, because he's dead), so to the benefit of those who have not yet expired, can you please tell us where he was wrong when addressing these apparent necessary truths?
JakCei 6 months ago
@JakCei
Zinn himself says the realization of these goals cannot be immediate. It is wishful thinking used as a backdrop or measure of what he would like to see. I might like to see a world styled more like Zinns utopia, but he leaves us with the "hope and change" emotional illusion, and we all know where that has got us. He offers no practical, real world advice to achieve these feel good statements, and he can't.
jolow2 6 months ago
@jolow2 No achievement of any goal is immediate, you aren't a graduate the second you are born, you graduate through a transitional process that's called education, again like the pot smoking analogy you label his ideas as utopian, Howard Zinn was an activist pre and post prominence, but he was primarily an analyst and historian, he believed in democratic socialism and said that this comes through mass struggle, this isn't an original answer which already exists, so the answer is in activism.
JakCei 6 months ago
@JakCei
Freedom to the individual is not granted by communistic or socialistic entities. The state is all important, but he talks about freedom anyway. As far as the preservation of a republic......... difficult when erasing borders and "equalizing" wealth. Sovereignty is abolished when the "world" decides the fate of your country and the laws you abide by. I assume you are NOT dead, so please reply.
jolow2 6 months ago
@jolow2 Freedom is definable by the individual, it's a transient and impermanent and the socialist environment has no real answer for what freedom actually is, and neither do you, me, a libertarian or social democratic state. There's a common misconception that your personal property would be distributed among the masses, unless we're talking about Pol Pot this isn't true, it's collective ownership of the means of production, so a publicly governed state and publicly controlled factories etc...
JakCei 6 months ago
@JakCei
. "There's a common misconception that your personal property would be distributed among the masses"
Aren't wages and profit personal property to be distributed according to the dictates of the powers that be? We are taxed in order to fund social programs, subsidies, and general "entitlements" a form of wealth distribution to the masses. The logic that my car or clothes belong to me is of little comfort. I like the definition of freedom as defined by the Constitution. .....Impermanent?
jolow2 6 months ago
@jolow2 Impermanent, the Constitution itself is never fixed, the abolition of slavery itself in the 14th amendment is a prime example of that, the Constitution exists as long as people are there to want it to exist, you are entitled to your freedom and this is based on the writings of Locke 400 years ago, Locke said that it's your natural right to have life, liberty and the pursuit of property, maybe that evolves in to something more over the centuries such as the right to life and comfort.
JakCei 6 months ago
@JakCei
You're right, the constitution is not fixed, but it takes more than an act of Congress to change it, and so it should. I am entitled to my freedom, and that comes from GOD, not Locke or someones definition of freedom. If it "evolves" to the right to comfort someone has to pay for that which takes someones economic freedom.
Now, have I explained my original blunt statement or do you need more?
jolow2 6 months ago
@jolow2 I'm sure God cares more about your economic freedom than the 40m+ Americans without free healthcare in a country with the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. Jesus would have just loved seeing the sub par private healthcare system and the bare minimum wage, after all profit and usury were two key pillars of our Lord's teachings for salvation. You do realise that your concept of God and freedom is natural law which is what John Locke helped conceive right?
JakCei 6 months ago
@JakCei
When did Jesus ever advocate confiscating money from one GROUP and redistributing it to another?
He spoke about INDIVIDUAL salvation, not collective. Yes, I realize God and freedom are natural laws. I thought I inferred that by my statement, but I guess it didn't translate.
It might be hard for foreigners to understand, but
jolow2 6 months ago
@JakCei
con't
Obamacare has MUCH more to do with POWER and CONTROL than health care. Much of it has NOTHING to do with the well being of the populace, but it is a HUGE power grab by the elite. It was passed with thuggery and deception just like the stimulus
jolow2 6 months ago
@jolow2 bullshit
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
@iridescentsquids
Very eloquently stated, idiot!
jolow2 5 months ago
@jolow2 About the amount of effort your comment deserved.
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
@iridescentsquids
LOL
Another jammed packed informative comment!! DOLT!
jolow2 5 months ago
@jolow2 Yes...because your post was full of facts... C'mon. Conspiracy theories fueled by ranting talking heads does not equal facts-- just a highly potent form of bullshit imbued with whiny hot-headedness.
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
@iridescentsquids
I still don't know what you are referring to. Which factual post?
jolow2 5 months ago
@jolow2 Just calling you out on your baseless claims regarding power grabs and mysterious elites taking over healthcare (because of course there are no legitimate issues with our current health care system. It's the best in the world!)
This is not the foundation for a real discussion on a complex subject. I'm not interested in delving into stupid conspiracy theories propagated by big TV personalities (who aren't even journalists). They get paid loads of money for talking BS, and we don't.
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
Comment removed
jolow2 5 months ago
I've gone over my posts. I THINK you are referring to my comment about Obamacare as a power grab. Is that it? I stand firmly behind that statement. If you don't understand that don't tell me how baseless it seems to you. You're really not as intelligent as you try to make me believe.
Just calling YOU out.
jolow2 5 months ago
@jolow2 I know you "stand by it". It's still bullshit.
iridescentsquids 5 months ago
@JakCei
Well Jak, I have got to go to work now. Someone has to pay for Obamas cool parties and junkets.
jolow2 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
yay!!!!!! he is finally dead!
Njtiger888 1 year ago
Too bad Howie couldnt have lived to watch all his dreams come true..in the Clownface of Barrack Obama and Nancy Pelosi...humilitated by nothng
less than reality.
ehunter2 1 year ago
HOWARD ZINNS "PHILOSOPHY"
1. Hide the fact that you were a member of the Communist Party for 50 years.
2. Talk only to the young and ignorant. Avg. Age 19. When they grow up and wise
up..turn to the younger generation.
3. Distort facts, leave out context, leave out massive sections of reality..pitch
a simple minded book to the simple minded.
4. Never..ever talk to a fully informed adult..who will detect you.
5. Cash in on book sales to the tune of several million dollars.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2
1. Never hid that. He was extremely proud of it.
2. He was a teacher. Talking to young people is what they do. And a lot of old people agreed with him.
3. The book was only simple minded if you consider looking at history through the eyes of the losers simple-minded.
4. What the fuck is a fully-informed adult? I think Noam Chomsky qualifies, and they were best friends.
5. That's capitalism, buddy. Fortunately, Zinn agreed with you that it's very unfair.
00maharum00ma 1 year ago
@00maharum00ma
1. He hid his intentions deliberately. He mouthed nice sounding
gibberish that fooled the gullible and ignorant.
2. Zinns teaching depended on having a classroom of 19 year olds
too ignorant to actually spot how Zinn was leaving things out and distorting
the rest.
3. History is either truthful or not. Zinns type of brainwashing
denies truth..substituting only "opinions"
4. Noam Chomsky is a mirror image of Zinn.
5. Unfair is Zinns use of the techniques Ive outlined above.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 Isnt it funny how Howie and Chomsky talk constantly about
"working people" about "work" about "the People" when both of them
had ABSOLUTELY NO..REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE with WORK, WORKERS,
OR REALITY? For 30, 40, 50, 60 YEARS both of them knew nothing but Academia.
Neither Chomsky or Zinn EVER
1. Built anything.
2. Met a payroll
3. Dealt with workers
4. Dealt with unions, absenteeism, drunks on the job, endless excuses
or any REAL LIFE situation...ever. Just 60 years of Academia
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 You clearly know nothing of Zinn, he grow up in a working class family and worked in a ship building yard. He was a member of the union, and dealt with many different issues there. Zinn also served in the Second World War as a bombardier, and then he went to school after that. Read a little before you open your mouth.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
He was a radical Jew absolutely committed to Communism and
who knew and celebrated anything that undermined the USA.
He belonged to the Communist Party and never uttered one word of protest
against the USSR while fault finding the USA at every turn.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 He was exceptionally secular, I have never heard him use any kind religious language, and furthermore he was a fierce critic of Israeli policy. He was committed to a form of anarcho-socialism, which whether you support it or not is a legitimate political belief. And finally he was a more consistent critic of the USSR than the US government, as he argued that their actions were immoral, and not simply illegal (as your government stated). Please read before you speak.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson He was an atheistic Jew. Like Trotsky. Like Marx.
Like Engels, Like Kamenev, Like Kagnovich. Like Chomsky Like Soros.
Get the picture? There socialism is a substitute for the religion they
rejected. Instead of God they followed the false God of their own ego
as saviour's. Instead of the Kingdom of Heaven, like Judas and Satan
they preached paradise on Earth and like all of the above they created a living Hell.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 So your problem with Zinn geminates from a hatred of the Jewish race? And I'm wondering now what your problem is with attempting to improve the plight of people while they live? It would be nice to assume things get better after death, but why not make it the best it can be right now?
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
Not quite..my problem with Jews is that every Communist movement
every espionage ring in the USA, every Hollywood studio, every news network almost all of Academia and almost every investment
fraud scheme has been run by Jews. Pretty remarkable for a group of people that make up no more than 2% of the population. CARE TO DEBATE THE FACTS CLOWN?
HMMM?
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 A) I haven't given my opinion on anything as of yet, I merely defended Zinn from an unfounded attack. B) What evidence do you have that the GOVERNMENT of the US is "fundamentally good and just"? Of course Zinn believed the people were good and just, in fact thats what his entire thesis is. C) I would argue that you are more conditioned then I am, because I can look at what the US does and walk away saying what is right and wrong, you believe its always right.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
You have given your unemphatic opinion. You believe 100% in the philosophy of
Coddled Adolescent Naivete. Nothing ever gets in the way of your compulsive need to play teenage rebel trying to find out "hypocrisy" amongst the adults. Get a job. Enter the real world. Try to do something..anything...you will find that
nothing is perfect, nothing is even "right" . At best it suffices. In the real world..the one Zinn never entered, the USAs accomplishments are stupendous.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 I have yet to give my opinion, you don't know whether I have entered the work force or not and your talk of the "real" world is so vague and non-discript that its irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that its not difficult to "find out" the hypocrisy, its blatantly obvious. And just because nothing "is perfect" doesn't mean that does not mean that we should give up trying to fix it, especially when some solutions are so clearly obvious. Furthermore name a lie yet?..... NO YOU DIDN'T
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
NAME A LIE...? NAME A LIE?
1. USA deposed Mossadegh in Iran to steal oil. ZINN LIE #1
2. USA fomeneted the Vietnam War via Diem Assasination. ZINN LIE#2
3. USA has a world empire. ZINN LIES #3, #4, # 5 , # 6...#582.
4. USA Capitalism is a system of coercion and exploitation. ZINN LIES #583- 789
5. USA Peace movement is really about "peace" ZINN LIES #790-2101
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 You really are out of your depth my friend. The US government has formerly apologized for its role in the overthrow of Mossadegh, even TIME Magazine reported it. The declassified CIA documents reveal that the US government lied through its teeth on every aspect of the Vietnam War, even the alleged Gulf of Tunkin. Over military bases in over 100 countries around the world and thats not an empire? US capitalists attempted to over democratically elected governments in Venezuela, Bolivia
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@ehunter2 etc. And we responsible for the deaths of environmental activists in the Niger Delta. And what exactly do you think the peace movement is?
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
The idea that you are some kind of big mystery is another bit of naivete.
You are as predictable as they come. From the canned "social justice"
schtick to the "exploited peoples" to all the distortions of history that
Zinn got you to swallow..because you know no real history. And finally
your deep belief that you are some kind of "rebel" or "genius"
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 And I don't think that I'm a mystery, merely that you're casting incorrect assertions on who I am, and what I have lived through. I'm no rebel at all, I'm within the mainstream of globe opinion (as far as it can be judged), and I hardly think I'm a genius, only that I'm open minded. Clearly to a great extent as I've tolerated this discussion, and given you many opportunities to actually refute Zinn's premises rather then say they're wrong and think you've made an effective argument.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@ehunter2 I also feel it would be more productive if the ad hominen attacks were to end, so that we could discuss the real issues. Not what you perceive me to be or not be. If you wish to continue to attack my intelligence feel free, but lets both recognize that it does nothing to advance the conversation.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
Because your definition of "best it can be" is so highly fraudulent, so narrow
so out of touch with reality that it simply labels you as a mindlessly conditioned robot. A pure product of propaganda. And the fact that you have no clue about all
this earns you Lenin's term "useful idiot".
ehunter2 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
Shall we we quit picking tid bits and make sense of what Zinn
actually did day in and day out for 60 years? From 1945-2005?
He did no physical work, built nothing, achieved nothing. He spent
60 years exploiting the ignorance of teenage morons, twisting the truth
and doing everything he could to subvert the USA. He was a pathological
lunatic that disquised himself as "a man of the people"
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 Okay, you are clearly trolling, I had already told you, Zinn worked in the shipping industry building ships for a decade. Which in the '20's was no easy job. He served in the Air Force in WWII (have you ever been in the military?). He never attempted to subvert the "USA", he presented the actions of the government from the perspective of it victims. So you could say he undermined the government's interests but those aren't the same as the general population.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson Bwaahahaaha. You take the average life facts of
millions of people ..ie. Zinn served in the military, Zinn had a difficult
job..MILLIONS of people have done that THEN you use this..pump it full
of sentimental hot air and use it to excuse a fvking raging psychopath and
pathological liar who spent 6 decades distorting history and duping the young and gullible....and then you demand intellectual respect...Dismissed moron, dismissed
ehunter2 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
What "victims" is that ? The ones that Howie Zinn paints as vicims? The poor?
The working class. My entire family is poor and working class. I grew up in Newark
NJ one of the poorest cities in American and NO ONE..ABSOLUTELY NO ONE
I knew looked on themselves as "victims" They were all intensely patriotic and
deeply grateful to be in the USA.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 A) Just because millions of people served in the military doesn't lessen the fact that Zinn DID work, and you've again skated over the fact that he worked in a ship-building yard, and that he even lead the union there. B) You've yet to list a lie that Zinn spread, quantify your statements. C) Why do you think the people you grew up with are so patriotic? If you can't examine your own social situation in an unbiased way thats not the fault of the people that attempt to help the poor.
123philhenderson 1 year ago
@123philhenderson
Why are they so patriotic? Because the see the USA as fundamentally GOOD and JUST place..and they came to that opinion from their immediate experience in life.
Zinn on the other hand is a psychopath..nothing in real life ever made him question his ideology and his ideology was a projection of his sub conscious
hatreds.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@00maharum00ma
Zinn lied at every turn. He had to. If the truth was know that he was
parroting the Party Line..merely a dupe of Moscow, pathologically
hating a country that had given him everything he would have been seen
for what he was.. a Psychopath.
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2 Zinn was always very clear about his intentions. He wanted to promote democratic socialism in the US, but was a strong critic of the Soviet Union. You're attacking him because you don't agree with his philosophy, since you have no interest in trying to understand it. The truth is that many of the freedoms you enjoy today came about because of Zinn and his comrades. But you can't admit that, because you think he's a damn commie.
Have you even read a people's history?
00maharum00ma 1 year ago
@00maharum00ma
Howard Zinn doesnt have a "philosophy"..he has no intellectual integrity..he only has one obsessive goal..to subvert the USA by whatever means possible,
twist history by ignoring context, exploit ignorant 20somethings with
half truths, invent words like "social justice" that disquise his pathological
hatreds...Yo cannot dig 1/2" inch into real history and not expose Zinn ...there isn nothing to "understand" about he man
ehunter2 1 year ago
@ehunter2
tell us about some of his half truths please.
Zatzzo 1 year ago
@Zatzzo Shall we start at the beginning. How about Zinns depiction of the
New World Indians as inhabiting a paradise of love peace and tolerance
until the big bad white man came and ruined it all. No mention of Aztecs
ripping the living hearts out of sacrificial victims who were enslaved fellow indians, no mention of the 7 story pile of skulls in the heart of Mexico City.
No mention that after 50,000 yeasr of occupying the North America Indians
lived in unrelieved misery. Thats a start
ehunter2 1 year ago
What's that song at the beginning?
JessAtlas 1 year ago
great man
justbrandon666 1 year ago
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Capitalism is the final chapter in historic evolution of THE TYRANNY OF PRIVATE PROPERTY RELATIONSHIP of alienation,exploitation and suffering of humanity, a Market mechanism where minority interest is the NEGATION OF OUR COMMON HUMANITY IN COOPERATION and HARMONY. We shall overcome the structure of minority power and oppression and reclaim our planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being, expressing our energetic creative potentials in freedom of being.
arzoyan 1 year ago
What an idiot!
roatc 1 year ago
Comment removed
roatc 1 year ago
if glenn beck watched this his head would explode.
quick, everyone send it to him!
curlyfry1106 1 year ago 29
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Capitalism is the wage slavery of immense humanity in a politically manipulated,tyrannical MARKET MECHANISM of artificial scarcity to perpetuate the conditions of servitude and compliance in the interest of the OWNING/RULING CLASS. Capitalism in State dictatorship or Corporate Fascism modality is a monetary control,suppression and deception of the Working Class across the world. We need to reclaim our lives,our Planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being.
arzoyan 1 year ago
I agree with his points. Communism itself is a nice ideal. But due to human nature (and it's track record up till now), the people at the top always keep the good things for themselves. While the rest suffer.
In 2010, it's astounding to me that we have lots of nationalized industries in the States. We even have a Socialst Senator. But we're forbidden to say the word Socialist.
whereismybailouttv 1 year ago
you're right about the people at the top keeping things in spite of the poor.....we can limit the negative aspects of human nature like greed with a strong democracy. our country is so corrupt because we have a limited democracy and a powerful corporate system. the only way you can limit private power and business-motivated government is to have a supreme democracy
johnowensjr1234 1 year ago
This is the opposite of what America was founded on and what the constitution stands for how can someone want to change America into this type of thinking if you are a socialist fine then please bring your thinking into another country, We are free to make choices and free to believe what we want because it is America but please we were founded on a constitution and that is what we should follow. I have my freedoms and capitalism as my country was founded on and please do not take those away
flanmanflannery 1 year ago
@flanmanflannery If you're all about freedom why does he have to take his thinking to another country thats not free at all. Zinn wants freedom from corrupt government and corporate interest he is preaching peace.
justbrandon666 1 year ago
@justbrandon666 He believes in socialism, America was founded on capitalism. Why would you try to change this system we created capitalism to get away from the big government of the british if you want to go back to this way of thinking then shouldnt you go to a country that already has this in affect than try to change the capitalist views that have worked so well in america. we have learned from the past anytime there is more government there is less freedom and the country is worse off
flanmanflannery 1 year ago
@flanmanflannery Exactly that's why he's talking about using concepts from the philosophy of anarchy because all governments do is declare war and oppress people. Socialism isn't big government ownership of anything it is simply democracy in the workplace. The workers own their company and vote on what they want to do instead of one person running everything.
justbrandon666 1 year ago
@flanmanflannery yeah. just look at those scandinavian countries. biggest governments (relative to economy) in the world and regular hell holes to live in. uneducated, unhappy populace, low life expectancy, low literacy rates, low earners, slow-growing, weak economies...
konx666 1 year ago
@konx666 thank god for capitalism
flanmanflannery 1 year ago
why didn't this man go for president, he would have done many changes
flinzo 1 year ago
@dougIassbickford you are narrow-minded
tothatextent 1 year ago
retardide
tothatextent 1 year ago
retard
tothatextent 1 year ago
I agree with Howard Zinn. To be practical, I'm a social democrat that supports a European-social democracy type system, I live in Canada but I believe that to go further education should also be completely free (I think it is free in Finland and the gov't pays college students money to rent their own apartment,etc).
In theory as a end-goal, definitely I'm a social anarchist. Anarchism to me is summarized by "skepticism towards all forms of authority, whether of the state, church, or parents."
andyx1205 1 year ago
@GreatGrumbledook
Newsflash: you are crazy!
eye0thetiger 1 year ago
@dougIassbickford: Nope; as I am not Immanuel Kant and thus do not uphold the believe that all human development and abilities are bound to the blood; but I do not believe that the blood is without influence, so I stand in the Aristotelian middle between those two extremes; but as the word you charged me with is considered evil by the current political orthodoxy I do not fear it as I reject the current political orthodoxy.
GreatGrumbledook 1 year ago
"We see exactly the opposite with the noble man, who conceives the fundamental idea good in advance and spontaneously, that is, from himself and from there first creates a picture of bad for himself! This bad originating from the noble man and that evil arising out of the stew pot of insatiable hatred of these the first is a later creation, an afterthought, a complementary colour; by contrast, the second is the original, the beginning, the essential act of conception in slave ...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
... morality although the two words bad and evil both seem opposite to the same idea of good, how different they are! But it is not the same idea of good; it is much rather a question of who the evil man really is, in the sense of the morality of ressentiment. The strict answer to that is as follows: simply the good man of the other morality, the noble man, the powerful, the ruling man, only coloured over, only reinterpreted, only seen through the poisonous eyes of ressentiment. ...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
Here there is one thing we will be the last to deny: the man who gets to know these good men only as enemies, knows them also as nothing but evil enemies, and the same good men who are kept within strict limits by custom, honour, habit, thankfulness, even more by mutual protection, through jealousy inter pares and who, by contrast, demonstrate in relation to each other such resourceful consideration, self-control, refinement, loyalty, pride, and friendship towards the outside, where the ...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
... strange world, the world of foreigners, begins, these men are not much better than beasts of prey turned loose. There they enjoy freedom from all social constraints. In the wilderness they make up for the tension which a long fenced-in confinement within the peace of the community brings about. They go back to the innocent consciousness of a wild beast of prey, as joyful monsters, who perhaps walk away from a dreadful sequence of murder, arson, rape, and torture with an exhilaration and ...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
... spiritual equilibrium, as if they had merely pulled off a student prank, convinced that the poets now once again have something to sing about and praise for a long time to come. At the bottom of all these noble races we cannot fail to recognize the beast of prey, the blond beast splendidly roaming around in its lust for loot and victory. This hidden basis from time to time needs to be discharged: the animal must come out again, must go back into the wilderness, Roman, German, Japanese ...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
... nobility, Homeric heroes, Scandinavian Vikings in this need they are all alike. It is the noble races which left behind the concept of the barbarian in all their tracks, wherever they went. A consciousness of and even a pride in this fact still reveals itself in their highest culture (for example, when Pericles says to his Athenians, in that famous Funeral Speech, our audacity has broken a way through to every land and sea, putting up permanent memorials to itself for good and ill). ...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
... This audacity of the noble races, mad, absurd, sudden in the way it expresses itself, its unpredictability, even the improbability of its undertakings Pericles emphatically praises the rayhumia [mental balance, freedom from anxiety] of the Athenians their indifference to and contempt for safety, body, life, comfort, their fearsome cheerfulness and the depth of their joy in all destruction, in all the physical pleasures of victory and cruelty everything summed up for those who suffer ...
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
... from such audacity in the image of the barbarian, of the evil enemy, of something like the Goths or th