I wish the right would just own up to their heroes. If Hitler was so left-wing, why did he get such whole-hearted and open assistance from right wingers like Prescott Bush, Kurt Waldheim and Gustav Schwarzenegger?
You claim that the right wing does not mean anti state, whereas the modern right are now anti state, hence during hitler's time they would be left wing.
No matter what your definition of right wing is, Hitler would not have been on the modern right's side.
@Iisdabest889 Right wing does not NECESSARILY mean anti-state. It can be either pro-state or anti-state. What makes someone right wing is not rejection of the state per se, but, more specifically, their rejection of the idea that the state should try to make everyone politically and economically equal. Both Hitler and the modern right reject this.
@TheMessianicManic Not really. Hitler believed all classes were to be economically equal (businessmen, workers and government were to be on the same economic playing field) but not politically equal. IE Scientific racism against Jews, but great support for the working class but not destruction of business.
The modern right is for the individual to get what he works for, not punishing others for equal outcomes. No one is against economic equity, they're against it coming at the expense of others
@Iisdabest889 The essence of what it means to be left wing is to be in favor of eliminating or mitigating stratification and hierarchy. Hitler was not in favor of this.
@TheMessianicManic Not necessarily. Anarchist communes have a form of hierachy to a certain extent, the Soviet Union had a hierachy, left wing in modern terms means how close you are to Socialism, and right wing means how close you are to capitalism (though this is only recent), though right wing used to be how close you were to mercantilism and a monarchy, and the left had both capitalists and socialists.
A modern conservative would NEVER support Hitler, as his policies were too socialist.
@Iisdabest889 - funny how when you look at Europe's Nazi movement that actually still exists today, it very clearly identifies itself as "right wing" with no uncertainty or confusion. This soap job by left-over Conservatives from the "right-wing" American political nazi movement from the 1940s is typical Nazi propaganda behavior. The same "reich-wing" claiming the "left" were the "Nazis" plays host to Nazis all over America, from JT Ready in Arizona, to Sean Hannity's best-bud Hal Turner.
@ObamaComma Funny how when you look at North Korea's title, it calls itself "democratic". The Neo-Nazi's call for nationalisation of industry and higher welfare for the working class, as well as compulsory employment. Does this sound right wing to you?
If a Neo-Nazi was in the White House, the Tea Party would be screaming "Socialist! Socialist!", even if he calls himself right wing.
@Iisdabest889 - Once again, you are intentionally ignoring the gorrilla in the room. JT Ready (an Arizona Neo-Nazi "conservative" and GOP Precinct caption, supported by Rep. Pierce (also a "right-wing" conservative)) march on the streets of Arizona, with nazi signs that say "the National Socialist Party" (and they are "right-wing" conservatives affiliated with the GOP). Calling black white, and white black is an old Jesuit trick, appropriated by the Nazis themselves from Ignatius Loyola.
@ObamaComma That's funny, because I've had the misfortune of coming across several Neo-Nazi's who-I-will-not-name and they seemed to be rather Anti-GOP and Anti-Democrat.
If they are so right wing, why do their beliefs contradict what it means to be right wing? And since when would you say advocating a controlled economy right wing? How about abortion, is that right wing too?
@Iisdabest889 - They work through confusion and opposite speak SOP. That is why Bush would say "freedom and democracy" and then pass the Patriot Acts, and circumvent democratic elections here in America (while they were pursuing strategic Oil conquests in the middle-east). Sean Hannity? you wish to argue he is a "liberal"? Really a "socialist"? Appearantly you do not know his long time personal friend, Hal Turner, was such a violent Nazi, the FBI, actually arrested him? (Yes, Conservative)
@ObamaComma Do you even know what socialism is? It has over 300 definitions, but the main definition is Government control of the means of production.
I don't know if you realize this... but all Communist regimes are with closed borders, militarist, no-gay rights and even kids use weapons.
My Country for example (Bulgaria) was one of the last communist (far-left) regimes in Europe. Our government banned Islam, "terrorized" turks and gypsies
All political opposition was Banned, Dissidents were sent in death camp (Belene/Белене)
@MrReco12 "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler
That was Actually said by Gregor Strasser. Indeed, you can read his WHOLE ARTICLE online: it is entitled "Thoughts and tasks about the future".(called a primary source)
LOL, the only historian that believes Hitler said "we are socialists" is Toland. And he was never able to provide the primary source.
"We stand for the maintenance of private property... We shall protect free enterprise as the most expedient, or rather the sole possible economic order."
- Adolf Hitler
Yeah, sounds REALLY SOCIALIST TO ME.
"capitalists had worked their way to the top through their capacity, and on the basis of this selection they have the right to lead.""
-Adolf Hitler
Which regime coined the term privatization: Why it was the Third Reich under the "socialist" Adolf Hitler!
@MrReco12 LOL!!! You think that just because private property and initiative was allowed, they were CAPITALISTS?
First off, you clearly haven't done your homework. Private property was only allowed if it benefitted the state. It wasn't nationalized because people know their own property better than the government does, so the private initiative was used to benefit Germany.
However, in many cases it meant profit loss, and that's when property was nationalised IE Junkers.
@MrReco12 Entrepreneurship was banned... Small business suffered HUGE taxes ranging from 50% in profits in 1933 to 98% on self financing firms in 1939, so they had to accept government finance and decreased profits. Big businesses weren't nationalized, and were even exempt from the taxes, but the control over them was so tight that they were private in name only.
"Bolshevism destroys not only private property but also private initiative and the readiness to shoulder responsibility."
-Speech to reichstag: 1935(Indeed you can READ THE WHOLE SPEECH ONLINE).
Hitler never said that about capitalism. Indeed, je admired capitalists like Albert Krupp and Fredrick Flick because he admired their actions,survival of the fittest, etc.
@MrReco12 Capitalism was, and is, an economic ideology. Bolshevism was a political one. Hitler never criticized huge regulations, or high taxes. However, that quote doesn't invalidate him saying that communism is preferable.
"The maintenance of a rotten industrial system has nothing to do with nationalism. I can love Germany and hate capitalism." Bendersky, Joseph W. A History of Nazi Germany: 1919-1945.
@MrReco12 That speech is criticizing Bolshevism's revolutionary economic system in favour of a market economy. So you're saying Hitler's rhetoric was right wing, yet his economic policies were left?
@MrReco12 "Restrictions on imports and the self-manufacture of substitutes for foreign raw materials call for a planned economy, which is a dangerous undertaking because every planned economy only too easily leads to bureaucratization."
Don't you think it's strange how Hitler is criticizing policies he later on implements?
"It is better for us to go down with Jewish Bolshevism than live in eternal slavery under Capitalism" -- Adolf Hitler.. Hmm, doesn't sound very PRO capitalist to me!
You haven't really looked much into privatization or private industry in Germany, have you? The Nazis even privatized some public services, but exercised so much economic control over the businesses that there was no point in privatization.
Oh yea, do you even know who took over these "private businesses".
@MrReco12 Pinochet wasn't a fascist, and modern historians don't consider Franco to be a fascist either due to his non-expansionism, restoration and support for the Catholic church and opposition to cultural revolution. He was part of the Falange, which were AT FIRST a fascist party, but by the time Franco had taken over most of its fascist elements were gone.
@MrReco12 Both Hitler AND Mussolini supported Franco, but only due to his anti - communism and antagonism to the Soviet Union. Why did Mussolini have to push Franco to create a corporate workers union? I'm pretty sure it was due to the fact that Franco's policies weren't exactly FASCIST.
@MrReco12 "I want everyone to keep what he has earned, subject to the principle that the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State … The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners." -- Adolf Hitler.
:The Nazis lowered the taxes imposed on most business: "The government...eased the capital position of private business. Agriculture [and particularly the large land holders, the 'agrobusiness'] was given a tax relief and a reduction of the burden of debt, while industry gained subsidies and tax relief for new investment and employment." - RJ Overy "War and Economy in the Third Reich", p55.
@MrReco12 " The largest corporations were mostly exempt from taxes on profits, but government control of these were extensive enough to leave "only the shell of private ownership."- Peter Termin, The Economic History Review, New Series, Vol. 44, No. 4.
"Nazi government corporate takeovers, and threatened takeovers, encouraged compliance with government production plans, even if unprofitable for the firm."
profits were rising rapidly after 1933 and this opened attractive future prospects for German corporate management." - Tooze, "Ibid", p114.
Indeed, be 1934 the bonuses being paid to the boards of some firms were so spectacular that they were causing acute embarrassment to Hitler's government." - Adam Tooze, "The Wages of Destruction", p108.
@MrReco12 "Despite making huge profits under the Nazi regime, corporations were forced to use these profits to benefit the state - and were supervised in doing so under threat of nationalization and treason." htt()p:/()/varldens()historia.()se/files/bonnier-his()/pdf()/SHI()S_07()31.pdf Remove brackets.
@MrReco12 Funny you should say that Hitler is a right wing Hero, when SOCIALISTS like George Bernard Shaw thought that National SOCIALISM was the future, and spoke positively about Adolf Hitler.
Are you sure Hitler was a Right wing hero? His policies and his supporters sure weren't.
@LighterPlanet Left wing means anti-hierarchy. You think Nazis were against hierarchy?
TheMessianicManic 3 months ago
You have NO clue what you are talking about!
DutchRunner325 6 months ago
Check out the video that I made on my channel about right wingers revising history. This is an excellent video by the way.
DaHonestAbe 6 months ago
Comment removed
DaHonestAbe 6 months ago
I wish the right would just own up to their heroes. If Hitler was so left-wing, why did he get such whole-hearted and open assistance from right wingers like Prescott Bush, Kurt Waldheim and Gustav Schwarzenegger?
vcdaniels 7 months ago
100% WRONG.
You claim that the right wing does not mean anti state, whereas the modern right are now anti state, hence during hitler's time they would be left wing.
No matter what your definition of right wing is, Hitler would not have been on the modern right's side.
Iisdabest889 9 months ago
@Iisdabest889 Right wing does not NECESSARILY mean anti-state. It can be either pro-state or anti-state. What makes someone right wing is not rejection of the state per se, but, more specifically, their rejection of the idea that the state should try to make everyone politically and economically equal. Both Hitler and the modern right reject this.
TheMessianicManic 9 months ago
@TheMessianicManic Not really. Hitler believed all classes were to be economically equal (businessmen, workers and government were to be on the same economic playing field) but not politically equal. IE Scientific racism against Jews, but great support for the working class but not destruction of business.
The modern right is for the individual to get what he works for, not punishing others for equal outcomes. No one is against economic equity, they're against it coming at the expense of others
Iisdabest889 9 months ago
@Iisdabest889 The essence of what it means to be left wing is to be in favor of eliminating or mitigating stratification and hierarchy. Hitler was not in favor of this.
TheMessianicManic 9 months ago
@TheMessianicManic Not necessarily. Anarchist communes have a form of hierachy to a certain extent, the Soviet Union had a hierachy, left wing in modern terms means how close you are to Socialism, and right wing means how close you are to capitalism (though this is only recent), though right wing used to be how close you were to mercantilism and a monarchy, and the left had both capitalists and socialists.
A modern conservative would NEVER support Hitler, as his policies were too socialist.
Iisdabest889 9 months ago
@Iisdabest889
/watch?v=Uw0A36C2MyA: Capitalist business put on trial for collaborating with Nazi Germany.
FAIL!
MrReco12 5 months ago
@TheMessianicManic
Pinochet proves them wrong. Why do they support Pinochet whilst they disown Hitler?
MrReco12 6 months ago
@Iisdabest889 - funny how when you look at Europe's Nazi movement that actually still exists today, it very clearly identifies itself as "right wing" with no uncertainty or confusion. This soap job by left-over Conservatives from the "right-wing" American political nazi movement from the 1940s is typical Nazi propaganda behavior. The same "reich-wing" claiming the "left" were the "Nazis" plays host to Nazis all over America, from JT Ready in Arizona, to Sean Hannity's best-bud Hal Turner.
ObamaComma 7 months ago
@ObamaComma Funny how when you look at North Korea's title, it calls itself "democratic". The Neo-Nazi's call for nationalisation of industry and higher welfare for the working class, as well as compulsory employment. Does this sound right wing to you?
If a Neo-Nazi was in the White House, the Tea Party would be screaming "Socialist! Socialist!", even if he calls himself right wing.
Iisdabest889 7 months ago
@Iisdabest889 - Once again, you are intentionally ignoring the gorrilla in the room. JT Ready (an Arizona Neo-Nazi "conservative" and GOP Precinct caption, supported by Rep. Pierce (also a "right-wing" conservative)) march on the streets of Arizona, with nazi signs that say "the National Socialist Party" (and they are "right-wing" conservatives affiliated with the GOP). Calling black white, and white black is an old Jesuit trick, appropriated by the Nazis themselves from Ignatius Loyola.
ObamaComma 7 months ago
@ObamaComma That's funny, because I've had the misfortune of coming across several Neo-Nazi's who-I-will-not-name and they seemed to be rather Anti-GOP and Anti-Democrat.
If they are so right wing, why do their beliefs contradict what it means to be right wing? And since when would you say advocating a controlled economy right wing? How about abortion, is that right wing too?
Iisdabest889 7 months ago
@Iisdabest889 - They work through confusion and opposite speak SOP. That is why Bush would say "freedom and democracy" and then pass the Patriot Acts, and circumvent democratic elections here in America (while they were pursuing strategic Oil conquests in the middle-east). Sean Hannity? you wish to argue he is a "liberal"? Really a "socialist"? Appearantly you do not know his long time personal friend, Hal Turner, was such a violent Nazi, the FBI, actually arrested him? (Yes, Conservative)
ObamaComma 7 months ago
@ObamaComma Do you even know what socialism is? It has over 300 definitions, but the main definition is Government control of the means of production.
Yup. Definitely a socialist movement.
Iisdabest889 7 months ago
I don't know if you realize this... but all Communist regimes are with closed borders, militarist, no-gay rights and even kids use weapons.
My Country for example (Bulgaria) was one of the last communist (far-left) regimes in Europe. Our government banned Islam, "terrorized" turks and gypsies
All political opposition was Banned, Dissidents were sent in death camp (Belene/Белене)
Communism > Capitalism
LeviathanOrb 6 months ago
@Iisdabest889
Pinochet, Franco and Suharto were all supported by the modern right.
I say Hitler would have been a right wing hero!
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler
Yea, sounds REALLY right wing to me.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
That was Actually said by Gregor Strasser. Indeed, you can read his WHOLE ARTICLE online: it is entitled "Thoughts and tasks about the future".(called a primary source)
LOL, the only historian that believes Hitler said "we are socialists" is Toland. And he was never able to provide the primary source.
You silly little man :D
MrReco12 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
"We stand for the maintenance of private property... We shall protect free enterprise as the most expedient, or rather the sole possible economic order."
- Adolf Hitler
Yeah, sounds REALLY SOCIALIST TO ME.
"capitalists had worked their way to the top through their capacity, and on the basis of this selection they have the right to lead.""
-Adolf Hitler
Which regime coined the term privatization: Why it was the Third Reich under the "socialist" Adolf Hitler!
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 LOL!!! You think that just because private property and initiative was allowed, they were CAPITALISTS?
First off, you clearly haven't done your homework. Private property was only allowed if it benefitted the state. It wasn't nationalized because people know their own property better than the government does, so the private initiative was used to benefit Germany.
However, in many cases it meant profit loss, and that's when property was nationalised IE Junkers.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@MrReco12 Entrepreneurship was banned... Small business suffered HUGE taxes ranging from 50% in profits in 1933 to 98% on self financing firms in 1939, so they had to accept government finance and decreased profits. Big businesses weren't nationalized, and were even exempt from the taxes, but the control over them was so tight that they were private in name only.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
"Bolshevism destroys not only private property but also private initiative and the readiness to shoulder responsibility."
-Speech to reichstag: 1935(Indeed you can READ THE WHOLE SPEECH ONLINE).
Hitler never said that about capitalism. Indeed, je admired capitalists like Albert Krupp and Fredrick Flick because he admired their actions,survival of the fittest, etc.
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 Capitalism was, and is, an economic ideology. Bolshevism was a political one. Hitler never criticized huge regulations, or high taxes. However, that quote doesn't invalidate him saying that communism is preferable.
"The maintenance of a rotten industrial system has nothing to do with nationalism. I can love Germany and hate capitalism." Bendersky, Joseph W. A History of Nazi Germany: 1919-1945.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
In terms of political ideology, Hitler was still a Right winger like Franco and Pinochet.
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 If Hitler is on the same side of the spectrum as Pinochet, then so is Stalin, Mao and even Castro.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
"Bolshevism destroys not only private property but also private initiative and the readiness to shoulder responsibility."
Sounds like he disliked the economic model to me. Read the whole speech, it is a intriguing one and proves that Hitler was indeed a rightist!
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 That speech is criticizing Bolshevism's revolutionary economic system in favour of a market economy. So you're saying Hitler's rhetoric was right wing, yet his economic policies were left?
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
Not at all. But i shall discuss it tomorrow because i have other issues to deal with at the moment(completing my assignment).
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 "Restrictions on imports and the self-manufacture of substitutes for foreign raw materials call for a planned economy, which is a dangerous undertaking because every planned economy only too easily leads to bureaucratization."
Don't you think it's strange how Hitler is criticizing policies he later on implements?
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@MrReco12 I too have an EE to research. Funnily enough, it's on whether or not Franco should be considered a Fascist.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
"It is better for us to go down with Jewish Bolshevism than live in eternal slavery under Capitalism" -- Adolf Hitler.. Hmm, doesn't sound very PRO capitalist to me!
You haven't really looked much into privatization or private industry in Germany, have you? The Nazis even privatized some public services, but exercised so much economic control over the businesses that there was no point in privatization.
Oh yea, do you even know who took over these "private businesses".
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@MrReco12 Pinochet wasn't a fascist, and modern historians don't consider Franco to be a fascist either due to his non-expansionism, restoration and support for the Catholic church and opposition to cultural revolution. He was part of the Falange, which were AT FIRST a fascist party, but by the time Franco had taken over most of its fascist elements were gone.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
HA HA HA, Hitler never met with Bernard Shaw: However he did meet with your dear hero General Franco:
watch?v=l9w6NG67Tmc
Two Rightwing dictators who were united in their hatred of the left.
Franco saluting the swastika:
watch?v=Ns_ENuBLI_Q&
The Rightwing Grand alliance: watch?v=jduLYaC7Vd4
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 Both Hitler AND Mussolini supported Franco, but only due to his anti - communism and antagonism to the Soviet Union. Why did Mussolini have to push Franco to create a corporate workers union? I'm pretty sure it was due to the fact that Franco's policies weren't exactly FASCIST.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@MrReco12 "I want everyone to keep what he has earned, subject to the principle that the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State … The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners." -- Adolf Hitler.
Oh wow, sounds REALLY right wing to me!
FAIL.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
:The Nazis lowered the taxes imposed on most business: "The government...eased the capital position of private business. Agriculture [and particularly the large land holders, the 'agrobusiness'] was given a tax relief and a reduction of the burden of debt, while industry gained subsidies and tax relief for new investment and employment." - RJ Overy "War and Economy in the Third Reich", p55.
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 " The largest corporations were mostly exempt from taxes on profits, but government control of these were extensive enough to leave "only the shell of private ownership."- Peter Termin, The Economic History Review, New Series, Vol. 44, No. 4.
"Nazi government corporate takeovers, and threatened takeovers, encouraged compliance with government production plans, even if unprofitable for the firm."
Search: Hugo Junkers.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@Iisdabest889
profits were rising rapidly after 1933 and this opened attractive future prospects for German corporate management." - Tooze, "Ibid", p114.
Indeed, be 1934 the bonuses being paid to the boards of some firms were so spectacular that they were causing acute embarrassment to Hitler's government." - Adam Tooze, "The Wages of Destruction", p108.
MrReco12 5 months ago
@MrReco12 "Despite making huge profits under the Nazi regime, corporations were forced to use these profits to benefit the state - and were supervised in doing so under threat of nationalization and treason." htt()p:/()/varldens()historia.()se/files/bonnier-his()/pdf()/SHI()S_07()31.pdf Remove brackets.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
@MrReco12 Funny you should say that Hitler is a right wing Hero, when SOCIALISTS like George Bernard Shaw thought that National SOCIALISM was the future, and spoke positively about Adolf Hitler.
Are you sure Hitler was a Right wing hero? His policies and his supporters sure weren't.
Iisdabest889 5 months ago
Nazism is Third Position, and Hitler was left-winged at all
National Socialism was a socialism+a lot of privacy+nationalism, not individualist
NationalSyndycalism 9 months ago