I always thought Peter Jackson should have introduced a Gondorian captain or lieutenant character in place of Faramir being injured. Gandalf's power was his ability to inspire the hearts of Men and you'd think there would be at least one or two Gondorian Captains that could step up during the darkest hour of Minas Tirith's existence. It also didn't help when PJ had the WitchKing destroy Gandalf's staff.
no, actually I just needed some line or phrase which he uses in the movies where there is no background noise. There was basically only the Moria scene where this was the case, as in all other scenes there is huge noise when he uses a spell :)
@Hermoor I hate to disappoint you, but Tolkien himself said that Sauron was way more powerful than any of the istari. Besides, if 2 istari would equal win against Sauron, why didn't Gandalf and Radagast wipe Mordor out together?
@LasseLiten1337 Because they were not allowed to use their full potential. Their mission was to guide the free people (men, elves, dwarves) to themself conquer Sauron. Gandalf is really the maia olorin...not some old man in a hat. That is the shape he took to guide the free people. They weren't allowed to go power against power. If they could, Saruman and Gandalf together could probably defeat Sauron.
@Hermoor I know that. I've read The Silmarillion, I know most of what there is to know about the ainur, valinor and such. What I'm trying to tell you is that Sauron was the successor of the dark lord Morgoth - also known as Melkor - (the most powerful ainu ever, and the second mightiest being in the Tolkien universe, after Ilúvatar, or Eru, who created the ainur) and was THE most powerful maia, while Olórin and Curunír just were ordinary maiar.
@Hermoor Plus, Olórin was never allowed to use anywhere near his full power in human form since Ilúvatar didn't want the istari to decide the fate of Middle-Earth, while Sauron didn't have any restrictions at all (he, Morgoth and the other maiar that Morgoth recruited were not crontroled by Ilúvatar). And another thing, Olórin didn't even want to go to Middle-Earth at first (when he was given the quest by Manwe) because he was scared of Sauron. And this is comming from a huge Gandalf fan.
@LasseLiten1337 So your source of information is yourself...you can take that statement and stick it up your ass. There is nowhere mentioned that Sauron would stand a chance against two or even three maias. Just that he was the most powerful of them all. If Gandalf Radagast and Saruman were allowed to use their full potential Sauron would be beaten down. It's logic...if Sauron is 3 and the rest of the maias are 2. 2 + 2 + 2 = 6 Sauron is a 3...which means he would be defeated.
You can't think like that, because Sauron had several Balrogs (who also were maiar) to use, but he wasn't as powerful as Morgoth and therefore not able to control them. And it was kind of the same thing with the istari, Alatar and Pallando just disappeared, Radagast ignored his quest and Saruman betrayed Valinor. If Gandalf should be able to use the other istari against Sauron, Sauron should be able to use the balrogs he actually was lieutenant of (second only to Morgoth) against the istari.
@LasseLiten1337 Well now we are talking only gandalf saruman vs Sauron. Don't involve all the races and allies too. Fact is Sauron would most likely be defeated by two istari...in their complete forms.
@Hermoor in their complete forms Curumo and Olórin, yes, but not as Gandalf and Saruman. When you wrote that Gandalf and Saruman would win against Sauron, I kind of thought that you meant the two of them going right into Mordor in their human forms and killing Sauron, and that would have been very unlikely.
@LasseLiten1337 Also I would like to contest that, Melkor most powerful in the world after Eru? Maybe, maybe not...there were many unknown beings in middle earth. Tom being one of them...most likely nature spirits. Could Melkor defeat the very soul of Arda? Maybe by burning down the land...but wouldn't nature rise and say NO! I think so...I doubt Melkor could tame the combined forces of the Ainurs song. (Tom, Goldberry) and more spirits of Arda...
@Hermoor The Silmarillion says that the most powerful being in Arda was Ilúvatar (Eru), then Manwe and Morgoth came, their power was equal. And when it comes to Tom Bombadil, his powers was most likely not as great outside the Old Forest. Some think that Tom is in fact Ilúvatar, but Tolkien actually said that he just is a really strange being without origins based on a doll he bought for his children in Amsterdam.
@LasseLiten1337 Well look at it this way, at the beginning Eru created the valas and the maias the ones who would sing the world into existence. The combined power of the ainurs song created nature nad the spirits of nature. Tom is most likely the spirit of the world, not a god but the spirit of Arda itself. The result of the ainurs song. If one of the ainur tried to challenge the spirit of the world...Tom. Don't you think the world woul rebel? Don't you think nature would stand up against it's
@LasseLiten1337 creator? I think this is the case which could mean Tom is more powerful than any Vala. At the council of Rivendell someone sais Tom could probably only be destroyed if the land was destroyed. And that Tom had no chance against Sauron if such a power didn't exist in the earth itself. Which it maybe would...Tom is nature...nature is alive, ents huorns and Goldberry/Tom etc proves this.
@Hermoor Or maybe, Tom doesn't have to be a uber-mighty? Maybe Tom Bombadil is just Tom Bombadill? Let me quote The Silmarillion;
"To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren"
That means Morgoth was not only the most powerful ainu, but he also shared all of his siblings powers, thus making him the most powerful god except Ilúvatar. And you can't be more powerful than a god if you're not a divine being.
@Hermoor Maybe Tom Bombadil doesn't have to be mighty? Maybe Tom Bombadil is just Tom Bombadil? Plus, even if he is nature, nature could not be more powerful than its creators, the ainur (they created the universe, Eä, which must mean they also created the nature). And Morgoth is the most powerful ainu.
I think if gandalf had the power to wipe out a whole legion the book would be quite boring with this powerful maia/istari beating the hell out of an army with one spell besides I'm sure it would be required for something said in sindarin. By then he might've bin shot with an arrow, logical thinking to just stab the nearest troll and save time and lives. And little he could do against grond.
Wizards in the lord of the rings are not of the kind of dumbledore. Their true power is not zapping enemies although they do so, they're wizards, after all, when it comes neccessary. I mean their performance adjusts to their task: they use the words -and, if you prefer, literature- to create hope (gandalf) or despair (saruman, the witch king or sauron) out of almost nothing but human hearts. When Gandalf saves faramir although being "staff broken" he proves he is much more than an angel in film.
Wizards aren't supposed to use a lot of spells anyway, they just have huge big ones that wipe out a load of people when they are alone and don't have meat shields in front of them.
yeah gandalf doesnt use enough magic in the movies..in the books, all the rage. they should have kept the part in the movie about when he makes the sky go dark when he cures theoden..and his horse, which can ride at the speed of light leaving flames behind it? what happend to that? and what he is the second greatest being bar sauron but gets killed by a balrog? my fucking ass!
Your over powering him a bit. He could hella bring out a can of woop ass of all of Sauron's armies because he can't die until his task is complete, but he could only do what he is meant to do. Otherwise the big guy upstairs..or across the see would probably revoke his "Get Out Of Death Free" card and *retches* The first book isn't called "The mighty wizard" Its called "The Hobbit" and for a reason. If the wizards could destroy everyone it just wouldn't be any fun. Coming from a wizard fan.
That is true indeed, but you have to admit that they made Gandalf look very weak in the third movie compared to the book. It just didn't seem right to me. I mean, for example he fights against a Balrog, fights against the nazgul on weathertop, but is suddenly afraid of trolls? And when you carefully read the book, you'll notice that he does intervene seldomly with the use of powerful magic when there is the necessitiy
Yeah I recall a part in the books where he says something along the lines of being the most dangerous thing in middle earth next to sauron himself. I believe it was said to Gimli in the Fanghorn. Plus the part where the witch king breaks is staff was lame. Never happened, and would not happen.
I must tell you that I think all of these changes you made are awesome! For anyone that knows Gandalf in the books should know that his visit to the silver screen was somewhat lessened in terms of his magical ability. I remember Peter Jackson saying that he disliked the idea of lightning bolts coming out of a wizards hand and all, but after all, they are wizards and should display their power, at least more than what was shown in Return of the King.
I just don't think that the "real" Gandalf from the books would watch soldiers of Gondor being crushed by the hundreds by trolls. He would certainly intervene by the use of magic, the same way he for example intervened with the use of magic against the balrog, or the wolves (book scene).
I always thought Peter Jackson should have introduced a Gondorian captain or lieutenant character in place of Faramir being injured. Gandalf's power was his ability to inspire the hearts of Men and you'd think there would be at least one or two Gondorian Captains that could step up during the darkest hour of Minas Tirith's existence. It also didn't help when PJ had the WitchKing destroy Gandalf's staff.
Malocosa 2 months ago
Lens flare effects? What is this, Star Trek?
kellorkleft02 6 months ago
Hi,
no, actually I just needed some line or phrase which he uses in the movies where there is no background noise. There was basically only the Moria scene where this was the case, as in all other scenes there is huge noise when he uses a spell :)
The4Experience 9 months ago
0:20 is Gandalf trying to open the gate like he was trying to open Moria gate?
BlueDwarf21 9 months ago
He was forbidden to use force vs force...if he could together with Saruman challenge Sauron. Saurong would run with the tail between his legs.
Hermoor 1 year ago
@Hermoor I hate to disappoint you, but Tolkien himself said that Sauron was way more powerful than any of the istari. Besides, if 2 istari would equal win against Sauron, why didn't Gandalf and Radagast wipe Mordor out together?
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 Because they were not allowed to use their full potential. Their mission was to guide the free people (men, elves, dwarves) to themself conquer Sauron. Gandalf is really the maia olorin...not some old man in a hat. That is the shape he took to guide the free people. They weren't allowed to go power against power. If they could, Saruman and Gandalf together could probably defeat Sauron.
Hermoor 11 months ago
@Hermoor I know that. I've read The Silmarillion, I know most of what there is to know about the ainur, valinor and such. What I'm trying to tell you is that Sauron was the successor of the dark lord Morgoth - also known as Melkor - (the most powerful ainu ever, and the second mightiest being in the Tolkien universe, after Ilúvatar, or Eru, who created the ainur) and was THE most powerful maia, while Olórin and Curunír just were ordinary maiar.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@Hermoor Plus, Olórin was never allowed to use anywhere near his full power in human form since Ilúvatar didn't want the istari to decide the fate of Middle-Earth, while Sauron didn't have any restrictions at all (he, Morgoth and the other maiar that Morgoth recruited were not crontroled by Ilúvatar). And another thing, Olórin didn't even want to go to Middle-Earth at first (when he was given the quest by Manwe) because he was scared of Sauron. And this is comming from a huge Gandalf fan.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 what is your point?
Hermoor 11 months ago
@Hermoor It's that Sauron is more powerful than Saruman and Gandalf together.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 Who has said that?
Hermoor 11 months ago
@Hermoor I wrote that in my earlier comments.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 So your source of information is yourself...you can take that statement and stick it up your ass. There is nowhere mentioned that Sauron would stand a chance against two or even three maias. Just that he was the most powerful of them all. If Gandalf Radagast and Saruman were allowed to use their full potential Sauron would be beaten down. It's logic...if Sauron is 3 and the rest of the maias are 2. 2 + 2 + 2 = 6 Sauron is a 3...which means he would be defeated.
Hermoor 11 months ago
You can't think like that, because Sauron had several Balrogs (who also were maiar) to use, but he wasn't as powerful as Morgoth and therefore not able to control them. And it was kind of the same thing with the istari, Alatar and Pallando just disappeared, Radagast ignored his quest and Saruman betrayed Valinor. If Gandalf should be able to use the other istari against Sauron, Sauron should be able to use the balrogs he actually was lieutenant of (second only to Morgoth) against the istari.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 Well now we are talking only gandalf saruman vs Sauron. Don't involve all the races and allies too. Fact is Sauron would most likely be defeated by two istari...in their complete forms.
Hermoor 11 months ago
@Hermoor in their complete forms Curumo and Olórin, yes, but not as Gandalf and Saruman. When you wrote that Gandalf and Saruman would win against Sauron, I kind of thought that you meant the two of them going right into Mordor in their human forms and killing Sauron, and that would have been very unlikely.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 Of course I meant if they could use their full potential which they weren't allowed to do...
Hermoor 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 Also I would like to contest that, Melkor most powerful in the world after Eru? Maybe, maybe not...there were many unknown beings in middle earth. Tom being one of them...most likely nature spirits. Could Melkor defeat the very soul of Arda? Maybe by burning down the land...but wouldn't nature rise and say NO! I think so...I doubt Melkor could tame the combined forces of the Ainurs song. (Tom, Goldberry) and more spirits of Arda...
Hermoor 11 months ago
@Hermoor The Silmarillion says that the most powerful being in Arda was Ilúvatar (Eru), then Manwe and Morgoth came, their power was equal. And when it comes to Tom Bombadil, his powers was most likely not as great outside the Old Forest. Some think that Tom is in fact Ilúvatar, but Tolkien actually said that he just is a really strange being without origins based on a doll he bought for his children in Amsterdam.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 Actually Tolkien sais himself that he doesn' know who Tom is...his power is unknown.
Hermoor 11 months ago
@Hermoor okay, but Morgoth and Manwe are still the second mightiest beings in the Tolkien lore.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 Well look at it this way, at the beginning Eru created the valas and the maias the ones who would sing the world into existence. The combined power of the ainurs song created nature nad the spirits of nature. Tom is most likely the spirit of the world, not a god but the spirit of Arda itself. The result of the ainurs song. If one of the ainur tried to challenge the spirit of the world...Tom. Don't you think the world woul rebel? Don't you think nature would stand up against it's
Hermoor 11 months ago
@LasseLiten1337 creator? I think this is the case which could mean Tom is more powerful than any Vala. At the council of Rivendell someone sais Tom could probably only be destroyed if the land was destroyed. And that Tom had no chance against Sauron if such a power didn't exist in the earth itself. Which it maybe would...Tom is nature...nature is alive, ents huorns and Goldberry/Tom etc proves this.
Hermoor 11 months ago
@Hermoor Or maybe, Tom doesn't have to be a uber-mighty? Maybe Tom Bombadil is just Tom Bombadill? Let me quote The Silmarillion;
"To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren"
That means Morgoth was not only the most powerful ainu, but he also shared all of his siblings powers, thus making him the most powerful god except Ilúvatar. And you can't be more powerful than a god if you're not a divine being.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
@Hermoor Maybe Tom Bombadil doesn't have to be mighty? Maybe Tom Bombadil is just Tom Bombadil? Plus, even if he is nature, nature could not be more powerful than its creators, the ainur (they created the universe, Eä, which must mean they also created the nature). And Morgoth is the most powerful ainu.
LasseLiten1337 11 months ago
I think if gandalf had the power to wipe out a whole legion the book would be quite boring with this powerful maia/istari beating the hell out of an army with one spell besides I'm sure it would be required for something said in sindarin. By then he might've bin shot with an arrow, logical thinking to just stab the nearest troll and save time and lives. And little he could do against grond.
motjon 1 year ago
Gandalf is a mage. Everybody knows that. But in the movie when the orcs charges to him, he fight like a warrior! =D Hahaahaha
GO GANDALF GO! HAHAHAHA
enthomorf 1 year ago
what kind of move is that? Kame-hame-ha?
I will stop calling Gandalf "KAKAROOOOOT!" everytime i see him,right? i promise!
Graygold77 1 year ago
i like this clip were he uses the light as a spell very nice oh no u have blinded me agghh lool
millanrocks 2 years ago
Wizards in the lord of the rings are not of the kind of dumbledore. Their true power is not zapping enemies although they do so, they're wizards, after all, when it comes neccessary. I mean their performance adjusts to their task: they use the words -and, if you prefer, literature- to create hope (gandalf) or despair (saruman, the witch king or sauron) out of almost nothing but human hearts. When Gandalf saves faramir although being "staff broken" he proves he is much more than an angel in film.
hephaestion1990 2 years ago
Wizards aren't supposed to use a lot of spells anyway, they just have huge big ones that wipe out a load of people when they are alone and don't have meat shields in front of them.
Like those fighters.
TwistingWays 2 years ago
Don't think he was weak... the motherfucker united the forces of good and engineered the fall of Mordor... without using shitloads of magic.
Win? I think so.
RecipeCollector 3 years ago 12
Hmph, even this doesn't do the guy justice.
alexmeh 3 years ago 4
he wasnt weak. he jst had a lot thrown at him. and havign to run from left to right did take some energy out of him.
Ecchiman 3 years ago
I agree, we forget wizard or not, a lot was going on. I mean can you imagine?
jfbruglio 3 years ago
yeah, and he had to save his strength for god knows what else was coming at him.
Ecchiman 3 years ago
his power is restricted. read the book guys >.>
hoodiesss 2 years ago
dont you talk to me about reading the books. I know the books backwards.
Ecchiman 2 years ago
then surely you would know better and agree with me politely.
hoodiesss 2 years ago
Nice discussion here but you didnt do great with the movie, Im sorry, just some lights on the staff:)
IronMaidenGuitarrist 3 years ago
yeah gandalf doesnt use enough magic in the movies..in the books, all the rage. they should have kept the part in the movie about when he makes the sky go dark when he cures theoden..and his horse, which can ride at the speed of light leaving flames behind it? what happend to that? and what he is the second greatest being bar sauron but gets killed by a balrog? my fucking ass!
nice job though dude
beshmao91 3 years ago
Your over powering him a bit. He could hella bring out a can of woop ass of all of Sauron's armies because he can't die until his task is complete, but he could only do what he is meant to do. Otherwise the big guy upstairs..or across the see would probably revoke his "Get Out Of Death Free" card and *retches* The first book isn't called "The mighty wizard" Its called "The Hobbit" and for a reason. If the wizards could destroy everyone it just wouldn't be any fun. Coming from a wizard fan.
john006a 4 years ago 4
That is true indeed, but you have to admit that they made Gandalf look very weak in the third movie compared to the book. It just didn't seem right to me. I mean, for example he fights against a Balrog, fights against the nazgul on weathertop, but is suddenly afraid of trolls? And when you carefully read the book, you'll notice that he does intervene seldomly with the use of powerful magic when there is the necessitiy
todorius 4 years ago 4
Yeah I recall a part in the books where he says something along the lines of being the most dangerous thing in middle earth next to sauron himself. I believe it was said to Gimli in the Fanghorn. Plus the part where the witch king breaks is staff was lame. Never happened, and would not happen.
CyrustheVirus1234 3 years ago 2
I must tell you that I think all of these changes you made are awesome! For anyone that knows Gandalf in the books should know that his visit to the silver screen was somewhat lessened in terms of his magical ability. I remember Peter Jackson saying that he disliked the idea of lightning bolts coming out of a wizards hand and all, but after all, they are wizards and should display their power, at least more than what was shown in Return of the King.
jfbruglio 3 years ago
@todorius could that be because gandalf is very powerfull when it comes to magic
but when it comes to close combat with a trol he'd be overpowered
trolls are quite resistant to magic
WulvPawz 1 year ago
LOL wtf... hahaha This scene was awesome cos even tho the trolls are so strong the men held their ground and put up a fight.
Debono11 4 years ago
Yeah, but Gandalf was afraid of trolls, therefore I hated the scene. How can Gndalf the White be afraid of trolls?
todorius 4 years ago 2
I think he was more fearful because of the mens lives he was with rather then his own.
Plus it makes the whole scene way more heroic with the gondor soldiers fighting on.
Debono11 4 years ago 2
I just don't think that the "real" Gandalf from the books would watch soldiers of Gondor being crushed by the hundreds by trolls. He would certainly intervene by the use of magic, the same way he for example intervened with the use of magic against the balrog, or the wolves (book scene).
todorius 4 years ago
BELLISSIMO magnific
SEVPITON 4 years ago