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  • Wasn't tolerance of others religion one of the major points of American ideals? And the melding of religions would be no more successful than the melding of christianity and darwinian evolution. If science and religion are unblendable then so do religions have the right and privilege to remain seperate. And while we are on the topic, if religion must be tolerant of science so must science be tolerant of religion and neither should bend for the other.

  • There are scientific evidences that there are more crimes in societies in US where there the religiousity is higher.

    Moral are rules dictated by religions, ethics are human basic rules how most humans like to live and need to live together. Ethics are universal vithin humanity.

    But as noted here by some, the problem is religion and not theists. It is the religions that brings the problems.

  • @andjack "the problem is religion and not theists."

    1. Theists made up the religion, it did not appear by itself.

    2. Theists use the religion to further their own agendas.

    So while theists are not all the same, religion is a tool. What theists object to (those in charge) is removing their only tool for controling people to do their bidding. The others are so brainwashed they think the world would end if they admit doubt because of the threats indoctrinated into them.

  • @AMomentOfClarity2011

    1) But when they start a sect and it isn't personal any more it starts to be a problem.

    2) They don't have to, but when they start to form a religion it does.

    All theist are not the same, as you wrote. Not all of them want to controll others, but some does. As some people are thirsty for power, in any way.

    (If there are some aspect of the definitions of the words I miss, you might enligth me, as english isn't my first language)

  • @andjack The root cause about religion is the untestability of their methodology. They can claim anything, adapt the translations to anything, anytime and object to any criticism because they claim that their god(s) know better than us.

    It basically has starved mankind of critical thinking for thousands of years, and crippled moral thinking as the emphasis is always in the wrong place. Now they use morality as a threat over us if we try to get free of their dogma.

    It drives me mad.

  • @AMomentOfClarity2011 yes, I agree about untestability. I have read and understood the Invisible Pink Unicorn and Russel's teapot.

    Moral is an religions norms of behaiving. We need ethics that is not based on one religion. We need to base our society on ethics, to build our moral from that.

    I agree, but I have atheist friends that are more dogmatic than many of my religious friends. So, I am not that categorical about religiosity, as long as it is kept private.

  • @andjack Glad we see eye to eye with the principle issue.

    And don't think that just because someone is atheistic they are right.

    I think atheists need to really sit down and offer an altnernative to the way religion works, there are good philosophies out there as a base line. I am a secular humanist.

    I don't support an atheist state, but a secular one. The issue is HOW to behave, not what to believe.

  • @AMomentOfClarity2011 I am happy to live in a quite seculare society/state, so I think I know how important that is. Secular state has room for religions to, as long as the state is secular.

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  • @andjack 1. a sect is not a democracy, its ALWAYs the priests that tell you what to do.

    So it is always a limited, and elite group, often tiered to enhance the pyramid scheme effect.

    2. All texts support the people who lead it. They can excuse any act, no matter how vile, all it takes is equivocation and no conscience.

  • @andjack mankind would be far better off if we build morality on actual reason and tested effects instead of revealed "wisdom". Iook at the Jains, they don't want to hurt a fly. They are atheistic, no god, but they still have morality.

    Rather than fear of punishment in the next life we should have focused on empathy for others in THIS life. I think we could have worked out a lot of problems by now.

  • @AMomentOfClarity2011 Doing good is not exclusivly from religious morality, neighter from atheistic morality. It comes from beeing human and to have and show empathy.

    And no, I have not seen any proofs of the existance of any god and I'm not active in any religion.

  • Abandon your religion, keep your spirituality.

  • One of the worst things from religion is that it teaches people that being ignorant is something to be proud of and that it should be encouraged....sadly that is what developing countries hear from their imams, pastors and priests, I know it cause I live there, and if you dare to question their reason or even to ask for an argument then you face social suicide, is not a coincidence that we have the most violent places in the whole world.

  • @intestinomedicino

    "One of the worst things from religion is that it teaches people that being ignorant is something to be proud of "

    One of the worst things from Enver Hoxha's athiesm is that it taught people that being ignorant is something to be proud of.

    It goes back and forth, if you think religion or athiesm is the underlying problem, you're not looking deep enough.

  • @Alaskaslim "if you think religion or athiesm is the underlying problem, you're not looking deep enough." The underlying issue is how to run a successful and fair society.

    There are plenty of bad examples in the past. The point is that religion has no method for finding out what is moral or not or what is true or not. The revealed wisdom they have repeated given is flawed, and highly suspect.

    And atheism, by itself, is not the solution, as its not a code of conduit. It's disbelief.

  • why would any supreme being who is above petty things - want us to worship at his feet?

    Isnt it foolish to worship celebrites? dont we put our idols on pedistals? Isnt that worship?

    Isnt it silly?

  • Would an Atheist World Be More Moral? YES.

    People forget that mankind has been around 400,000 years. various conflicting religions throughout all those ages. Tell me how the world will get along with different religions? Because we never have.

  • @masonTganes If it isn't religion, it's something else. Even if religion disappeared, people would find something else to fight about. That "us" vs. "them" mentality is ingrained in the minds of most.

  • @masonTganes Religion is just an excuse, not a cause, of amorality. You have to look at the big picture. People will always find something to bicker about. Hate was always about greed, it always was and always will be. Greed propogates hate. Via hate, people can rationalize being amoral. Religion, like ethnicity, culture, gender, nationality, et cetera, mixed with ignorance, is merely convenient scapegoat and/or rationalization of hate. Without religion, nothing changes.

  • @ProfThrax Well Religion in this video clearly is the sole reason for the hostility involved. In this video its all about " my god is right- yours is wrong"

    END ALL RELIGION to save humanity from itself.

    We cant talk about logic or reason when faith gets in the middle.

  • @masonTganes

    And I can give you examples where Atheism was the reason for hostility involved.

    What ProfThrax said is correct, human beings will make up ANY REASON to kill each other.

    Communist China, as a single force, killed more people than anything else on earth, in the name of what? POLITICS.

    Nazi Germany did it in the name of RACE, the Rwanda genocide, equally, had nothing to do with Religion.

    Hatred & intolerance exists INDEPENDENT of Religion, it does not derive from it.

  • @Alaskaslim The middle east has been at war with one another for a thousdand years because of war.

    Throughout history, religion justified many wars.

    Hitler condemed jews because their beleifs differed from his.

    Religion is the #1 thing that divides the world.

  • @masonTganes

    "Hitler condemed jews because their beleifs differed from his."

    Along with 8 Million Jews, he also killed 10 Million Slavs.

    The latter had NOTHING to do with religion, it was simple racism.

    Further, killing Jews had nothing to do with Religion, they were a scapegoat, blamed for undermining the war effort in Germany, hence why they lost in WWI.

    Scapegoating has happened elsewhere sans religion, once again, the Rwanda genocide, your point falls flat.

  • @Alaskaslim "The latter had NOTHING to do with religion, it was simple racism." So all the Hitler speeches, the support by the Church, the support by the Christian population of germany for genocide has nothing to do with religion?

    Seems if you close your eyes to history, you believe anything.

  • @AMomentOfClarity2011

    "the support by the Church"

    If it was supported by the Church, why did it RESCUE Jew by the 1,000s from Nazi Germany? Why did they pass information along to the allies? Why did priests refuse to cooperate with Nazi Authorities?

    Why is Father Maximilian, and many like him, a martyr?

  • @Alaskaslim They played both sides. And some priests are not 'the church'. There are some genuine people who are good despite their faith. Also Hitler went even more nuts in the last few years and even the Church could not support him.

  • @Alaskaslim your dealing with an organisation that actively supported child molesters in their ranks, so don't pretend they are angels. They have been responsible for horrible crimes against humanity down through history.

  • @ProfThrax That's a pretty bold statement considering how much of society has immersed its self in Religion. Religion might just be an excuse to convey hate towards others but the problems is that society and government has set a standard which allows this excuse to be widely accepted and due to political correctness questioning these excuses just gets you criticized and judged. My personal opinion is that Religion isn't a excuse but rather a reason for hate and ignorance.

  • What would there be even Religion stopped to be right now? If it just up and vanished? What would happen? People are just as impressionable as before and other People will certainly try to lead them on with something that will sound similar to Religion. People will still try to communicate with and influence to Super Natural and there will be People who try to tell them how to do it and sell them Promises. End of Religion=Sales Increase on Tarot Cards.

  • @madman123456 Once a child is brainwashed with any sort of teachings- it follows them for life.

    Thankfully technology is exposing the truth about religion and backward thinking.

    It took 200 yrs for America to be tolorant towards blacks... the gay rights issue should speed up the process of exposing religion for the evil it is.

  • @masonTganes

    "Thankfully technology is exposing the truth about religion and backward thinking."

    I know atheists who are 9/11 truthers. In some cases, technology has INCREASED backwards thinking, for it allowed exchange of ignorant ideas all the more.

    Travel on 9/11 youtube videos for a while, you'd think the "Government Conspiracy" was a sure fact, and that America is error for not bringing these people "to justice".

    In short, your FAITH in technology fails you.

  • @Alaskaslim

    "It took 200 yrs for America to be tolorant towards blacks."

    Lead by the QUAKERS who took a literal, moralist interpretation of the Bible. It was by their influence the North became abolitionists, and later supporters of the civil rights movement.

    There are Quakers TODAY who support gay rights, as well as Churches, citing the Bible as evidence to do so, your point fails.

  • @Alaskaslim So let me understand your points of view.

    Gays dont deserve equal rights.

    The church saved us during the middle ages.

    911 has no relation to religion.

    If someone beleives in a different god- they are sinners.

    Science is only true if agrees with the bibles timelines and explanations.

    Ok well I guess you are rational and correct with everything.

    I think we are done talking.

    Please DO NOT REPLY to me any further.

  • @Alaskaslim Not sure i understand your point.

    911 is a seperate topic, but it sure does provide another point-- where was your GOD on 911. How could he allow such horrific murder.

    If you surf youtube enough - there is actual video footage following the people straight to the ground as they jumped. It shows their bodies explode like watermellons on the ground. Watch an hours or 2 of that and tell me how great the lord is.

  • @mason

    "Not sure i understand your point."

    Athiests can believe in stupid things, and here's why;

    Just because you don't believe in God, does NOT mean your grasp on science is immune to failure, and for many 9/11 truthers, moon landing conspirators, "inner earth" theorists, it clearly has.

    On the other hand, the Catholic Church is the oldest Western World institution still alive, it kept reason & education alive through the Dark Ages, without them, you would not know the Greeks.

  • @Alaskaslim

    By "Greeks" I mean Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, Pythagoras, etc. Their teachings and institutions, were kept alive by Clergy scholars.

  • @Alaskaslim Theodosius destroyed part of the library of Alexandria to 'destroy any paganism', especially knowledge about Mithras. A lot of the knowledge was lost due to christianity. What was saved was repressed by the church and only what suited it was preserved. christianity has a lot to answer for for 1000 years of the darkages.

  • @AMomentOfClarity2011

    "A lot of the knowledge was lost due to christianity."

    Knowledge was lost to extremism, not Christianity.

    Christianity on the other hand saved knowledge altogether, keeping it alive through the dark ages, if you want to go that route, then by default, you must admit, without Christianity, the renaissance would not have happened until centuries later.

  • @Alaskaslim you got to be kidding. The renaissance would have occurred much earlier without the abuse of the church.

    They held progress back a thousand years. They horded all wealth and were in collusion with dictators. They were the wealthiest organisation on earth.

    IF they had their way we would be under a totalitarian regime where literal translations of their texts would be mandatory. History shows clearly their intolerance.

    Most change is due to rebellion against them.

  • @Alaskaslim If it was not for the rise of secularism in this world we would still be living under a christian version of Islam.

    Only due to slowing forcing the church to validate its actions have any freedom been achived.

    We see the alternative in the middle east, where secularism has only just begun to weaken Islam.

  • @AMomentOfClarity2011

    "If it was not for the rise of secularism in this world we would still be living under a christian version of Islam."

    America was founded under Christian ideals, a healthy distrust of any Governmental authority, proclaiming that we all have rights endowed by our creator, that no force on Earth should be allowed to limit or take away.

    It was not secularism under which the Constitution or Declaration of Independence was formed, but Christian idealism.

  • @Alaskaslim All art was religious art, or some mundane portraits of rich people. The church had the wealth, and paid for propaganda.

    Leonardo de vinci had to sneak around to disect bodies to understand anatomy because of the taboos by the church.

  • the world will be less moral just because what is immoral will become something moral. like if we say marijuana is illegal and then we make it legal is not wrong anymore.

  • Atheism all the way.

  • All living creatures stand in need of Him.

  • @ndrummer99

    -----Your comment viewed with------

    ------------> Atheist Vision <------------

    "All living creatures stand in need of the squire circle shaped sea rhinoceros of the Sahara."

  • Being from Utah I see first hand what a religious based state can cause. Good and bad. As a result of the religious influence in Utah, I've noticed low crime rates (although that good be due to other things like average income and racial demographics), overpowered police, a corrupt legal system (as might be said for the whole U.S. legal system), and discrimination. I could go on about the pros and cons but most would be cons.

  • Almost all people on this planet believe in God and believed in God throughout history. But there always have been wars and cruelty and nothing change nowadays. Religion and morality are different things. Religion is pseudoscience which must be eliminated by education. And the moral obligation for everyone is to be open-minded and critical.

  • I'm an independent theist, and If you ask me, many of the problems in today's world lie with religion. Not with theism; that's distinct from believing in a 'higher power' in that Religion is essentially the blind subscription to a creed. But religion can and has been abused by the corrupt to bend the commoner to the whims of their oppressors.

    The best thing, in my book, would be to go beyond the bounds of the religion people were born with and study theology in as open a way as possible.

  • @TuxedoClam What r ur beliefs then?

  • @kamkaj19 In short, I have a suspicion that there is a deity or higher power of some sort which is what the various religions have exalted, simply manifested and perceived in a different way; as one God, as many, as animals, as men, what have you; one that, I would be lying If I said I thought I knew exactly what it was. Because of this, I think that the various scriptures of the world are all pieces to a larger theological puzzle that, as of yet, we don't have all the answers to.

  • It's obvious to me that all religions are false and making sth new by yourself is even more ridiculous. Is impossible that anyone can know what there is. It is all made up by some people. So i dont agree;p sorry for my english

  • @kamkaj19 Oh, I'm well aware that fabrications, falsehoods, mistakes, etc. are common in most scripture, however I think that there have been things that people can't simply 'make up'; prophecy.

    A few prophecies from different Abrahamic books, such as, for example, Ezekiel, have come true with disturbing accuracy, and with a consistency that I have a hard time attributing to mere coincidence.

    The main problem, I think, arises when institutions like the church come along...

  • @TuxedoClam For example? I'm curious. There may be some accuracies (maybe coincidence). But dont you think that when at least one thing is false in sth that is supposed to be written by god? Then all relligion is false cause god is not supposed to be mistaken. Yes, and all that false church thing.

  • @kamkaj19 Well, one specific example off the top of my head is the prophecy regarding the destruction of Tyre. (biblegateway. com /passage/?search=Ezekiel+26%3A­1-21&version=NASB)

    As for your second point, I don't see reason to believe that the deity himself wrote those texts. I think that's a falsehood presented by fundamentalists and the church. I think human error can be held culpable for problems in recording the prophecies, in translation, and sometimes from blatant forgeries.

  • @TuxedoClam So much new words ;p Are you a native speaker? So who do you think wrote bible or quran? I can't get how there can be faith when assuming that its just human work.

  • @kamkaj19 Indeed I am; born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, raised in Salinas, California. ;D

    As for who I think wrote the Bible and Qu'ran; it should be clarified the Bible is actually not a single text, but rather a collection of various different writings from numerous time periods. So, there are various authors. As for who wrote the Qu'ran, all I know is that they say that Muhammed wrote it. I unfortunately have not studied Islam, as my father was an anti-muslim bigot (cont)

  • @TuxedoClam (cont), and I was raised to hate Islam and Muslims. It was actually just recently that I was able to shed my prejudice, so I, regrettably, haven't studied Islamic scripture just yet. Though, I do intend to eventually.

    If you ask me, though texts may not have been written by a deity, I'm convinced that it did cause certain things described. For example, the prophets having their visions. However, the descriptions of these visions came down to the prophets; to people.

  • @TuxedoClam I'm from Solarnia, Opolskie, if someone asks;p

    I've heard that it has many authors too. Must have looked funny when a god dictated the bible to them or quran. They must have had some weird connection then, telepathy for sure;D. I'ts strange that any god doesn't dictate nothing to anyone now. Or maybe does for some new religion ^^ Ok.. I'm an apatheist. Take care.

  • @TuxedoClam well , If you didn't read about Islam , so give yourself the chance to know it and Study it , But I recommend that you read about the difference between the Arab land before Islam and after Islam. and You don't need to study the Arabic script to study Islam, there are only 20% of Muslims who speaks Arabic. It will also be interesting to read about Muhammad since he is an effective man on the Human History.

  • @TuxedoClam How can we ever get to a world where people are taught about deities and it not turn into religion?

  • @VideoMenu Because the study of deities and conforming to strict practices centered around their worship are not necessarily the same thing.

    If people only retained their individuality, and held beliefs because they personally understand them to be true and not because they were indoctrinated, most of the problems with religion would no longer exist.

  • I don't understand why people care about who has what religion. It's a waste of time and energy that could be better used building homes for the homeless, or some other charitable act of compassion which your god would probably love to see you do anyway.

  • @Assassin1990x You are right that who has what religion does not matter. The problem is religion itself. When people get satisfied with the explanations and answers that the different religions have., and worse is when people let their religion dictate their lifes. Being caught in a web of lies and get forced by fear into a religion which according to historic events is not even a force of good. It's our moral obligation to reach out and help these people.

  • @Mikkerthebhu1 It's weird how religious people try to convert others to their religion thinking they are saving that person from hell or something. Then people like you do the same, because you both 'know' how you think and feel is right. You see each other as the fool who is caught in a web of lies, yet you are both happy with the life you live. Look at it from a different perspective, and leave well enough alone. Look at it from their point of view. Don't *force* your beliefs on people I guess

  • @johnnymitnick I completely agree that you shouldn't force your belief on anyone. Surprisingly that has been religions method for millenia. If you don't accept your religions God your are doomed. Any truely good Christian would do everything in his power to convince people of their religion so they can be salvated. Atheists has no reason beyond their own reason and empathy. I am a big fan of truth and I want to share the truth... religion has not a single leg in the truth

  • @Mikkerthebhu1 Unfortunately, a lot of atheists are employing the same tactics into 'recruiting' religious people. Atheism can be bad just like religion can be, except in a different way. Look up stuff like Stalin's atheist state and you'll see what I'm referring to. (In particular Gulags) And I know you think all religion is like Christianity, but it's not. Really, people just use religion as an excuse to spread their hate, when in reality religion promotes the opposite. BTW I'm an atheist, too

  • @johnnymitnick you made so many generalizations in that post... What does it even mean when you say "a lot of", could i say "some" instead and completely change the whole meaning of the sentence? I am not argueing that atheists are universaly "good" nor that religion are universaly "evil". BUT there is a difference in "recruiting" methods. Ideally an atheist would convince her opponent by argument, critical thinking, education and reason. In contrast some religions uses indoctriation and fear.

  • While I do agree that there may be some "good" religions, there are none that makes any worthy arguments to justify the idea of a God. Some have amazing morales and ideas, but that can hardly be argued as a reason to believe in a deity. So the idea of religion is absolutely unnecessary. I could grant you that religion was amazing and made the whole world a fantastic place, but it would all be in the name of a made up deity. Do we really need that?

  • @Mikkerthebhu1

    "The problem is religion itself."

    Religion is no problem at all, any negative you can attach to religion, is more fitting to human nature itself, that is found regardless of what one's beliefs derive from.

    "Being caught in a web of lies "

    What "lies"? That everyone is special? That you should treat others with dignity and respect? That you should practice and assume humility?

    It is a force for good, but like any thing that man has, it can be abused.

  • @Alaskaslim "That everyone is special? That you should treat others with dignity and respect? That you should practice and assume humility?" whats religious about these statements. You are using secular morality to justify religious dogma. Multiple faiths hold these ideals, although the humility is in question when you think you are the favourites of a god and that he answers your prayers. Hardly that humble.

    The golden rule existed long before christianity.

  • @Alaskaslim also the bible has plenty of examples which contradict the very sentences you profess are the defence for it. Especially the old testament and the introduction of hell in the new testament.

    Theist apologetics are two faced in my opinion. They try to soft sell religion and then when they got you they screw you to death.

  • Im a Catholic and I learned that morality is based upon how your parents brought u up as a child and what your conscience tells you. You can be a religious nut but still commit sin meanwhile an Atheist can donate to many organizations to help cancer research. Who do you think the better person in that comparison is?

  • “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” -Steven Weinberg

  • @SirBraxton1989 Weinberg's statement is true as far as it goes, but it is not the whole truth. To make it the whole truth, we must add an additional clause: "And for bad people to do good things—that [also] takes religion." - Freeman Dyson

  • @Balla4life3 I guess we can agree that when it comes to morality, religion, or lack thereof, really has no affect. It depends on the individual.

  • @SirBraxton1989 Couldn't agree more.

  • This video could have been shortened to three words: I don't know.

  • 1:40 About the ignorance of theists in saying very few actually live in such a way that they are prejudice towards those of different beliefs is bullshit. That man has clearly lived a sheltered life. 40% of Americans believe in creationism. The majority from the South. The majority of these people shun away from anyone of other religious stance. Atheists, Hindus etc. I have personal accounts where people have actually had to move due to their atheism. unable to open bank accounts find work.

  • more moral no

    more peaceful yes

  • Religion is just another way to divide eachother. We will eventually outgrow this. Atheism doesnt mean you will be moral, although atheists do tend to be more intelligent and moral then religious folk.

    But as an atheist, nothing is more disgusting then an immoral atheist.

  • It is possible if as people had chose 1 proper belief system on conducting yourself and actually lived that way but that will not ever happen because The rat fink frums will always manipulate your thoughts to prosper

  • You think the unshakable race ruling shit gives a crap about morals from the books they push Ha that does not matter if someone chooses to blame their religion on their actions to justify them is as guilty as someone who has no religion and looks to shift the blame & justify their actions.

  • God or no God egotistical organized crooks would still run shit and oppress us they Just feel better inventing a God that Loves them most and grants permission to demoralizes everyone else like cattle and live wealthy prosperous lives

  • We sure would have had a lot less wars..

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  • Tolerance is the key word here also the intellectual humility and honesty that I feel will feed that tolerance. Just imagine all the videos and comments you may have seen on youtube and all the real life conversations you have had. You have to admit that no matter if you are theist or atheist there are people on both sides that are simply intolerant. From the death threats given by "christians" or the smugness of "atheists" in reality its just stupid people within both camps ruining it for all.

  • Yes it would and there is a proof: Global Peace Index.

  • No, an atheist world would not be any better. I agree religion has done some evil things in the past however this isn't the past anymore. I think the world today would turn to chaos if we lived in an atheist world now.

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  • Dear God, this guy is so damn boring. Bringing nothing new to the table on a debate that's far too binary.

    Will you people ever STFU?

  • im agnostic not atheist. That is because i have had allot of weird unexplained shit happen to me...before i became agnostic i was christian then became a muslim for 5 years. I stop following religion the same reason I left christainy for Islam. and that is if YOU STUDY your religion pre-religion or study the religions that where dated before your religion you will see shocking parallels with the religion that you thought was true with religions your priest, rabbi or iman call pagan. check it

  • @TheSouthernPsycho @ponchred both of you shut the fuck up. Maybe there is a god, we don't know, there isn't any hard evidence saying that there is a god, and whether or not there is a god, are we meant to know? Until science can really prove there is or isn't a god, we really dont know. Besides many scientists say that science and religion are 2 people telling the same story.

  • although im not an athiest, i think this world would be better because in religion, people are good in fear of being sent to hell, not because they want to be good, they fear punishment and reach for the reward, rather than being good to help another out, or just to be kind

  • @TheSouthernPsycho I have a wealth of evidence against the Christian God concept. It's totally illogical. The stupidest of all. If you're any type of Christian you're either a pussy or a nutjob. Lol. Now I win!

  • Religion has nothing to do with morality. It can't, because God doesn't exist. You can't predicate something that is real (morality) on something that isn't. What it boils down to is people know what's right and wrong and they choose to act that way or not.

  • I think individual behaviour does have an effect, but depending on how devoted you are to your religion or how much the religion is pushed on you it would change your own actions and beliefs. you have to realize that everyone has free will, but we all learn from our surroundings and decisions we have to make because of them, so everything will effect the way you act. I think loosing the superiority complex of religion would be necessary for a better future.

  • It could be argued that people with a certain religion might see something bad as good because of it and vice-versa.

  • Being a jackass is generally not related to religious affiliation.

  • no comment

  • Atheism isn't more moral its more comprehensive.

  • @KatanaRapierCombo2 I guess the percentage depends on the study. I'm not really against someone believing in a God. I am against them telling me they know what it wants or thinks. No one could possibly know that. Especially a bunch of shepherds from the bronze ages.

  • I'm finally seeing some smart people down there. You can't judge a person just because he's theist or an atheist, only the person itself and it's many possible qualities. So would an atheist world be better? Can you really be sure that there would be no more man and nature made disasters if that were to happen? personally, I don't belive we live in either a completely religious world or atheist, because within our countless numbers there is a vast variety.

  • “There are good people and there are bad people. Only religion makes good people do bad things.”

  • Religion and atheism do not directly correlate with morality. If a religious asshole becomes an atheist, he's not necessarily going to stop being an asshole--and vice versa. There have been many immoral religious people (bin Laden), and there have been many immoral atheists (Stalin). But there have also been many good religious and atheist people. So there's no point blaming one group over another for immorality. It all boils down to individual behavior.

  • @allamericandude15 Yes, all people are equal, excluding the fact that most major religious doctrines are inherently racist, elitist, sadistic, unforgiving, condemning, capricious, fatalistic, and ignorant to name a few. So I would say that subscribing to such beliefs is very much related to one's morality.

    Of course there will be exceptions, for the simple reason that religion is not the only influence acting upon our moral code. And thank god for that!

  • @allamericandude15 I do think a good amount of it is based on individual behavior but I don't think it all comes to that. For instance I think religion is very good at getting good people to do bad things.

  • @RichT519 BAD PEOPLE who are also smart are the ones who get good people to do bad things. Religion is simply one of the tools they can use. They could also use a political ideology, a reaction to a catastrophic event, a common enemy--pretty much anything that could get a group of people to come together and follow a single leader. Once that happens, the leader can make that group do whatever he/she wants.

  • @allamericandude15 I think that people's doubtless following is a result of religious morality in the first place though. Religion says to have blind faith in god, so one gains that habit of believing and following without doubt. Whereas atheism and science try to encourage doubt and questioning constantly and is the basis for both of them. If people are raised thinking scientifically they will naturally be much more skeptical.

  • @Seanze329 But like I said, religion isn't the ONLY entity capable of creating a group of blind followers.

  • @allamericandude15 Right, but it makes all the more possible. Which I think is an unnecessary risk.

  • @allamericandude15 I would argue that religious morals are traditional and therefore have tons of flaws and are extremely resistant or unable to change. So if one doesn't have religious moral constraints one can develop and adapt morality MUCH easier. Religion is also based more on fear than equality and efficiency. Plus atheist morality is able to changed into anything so naturally would be able to become better. Like you said though, an immoral person is immoral regardless.

  • @allamericandude15 yes you're right, but the thing about religion is that it can be the cause of immorality while atheism isn't

  • @scienceevolution94 Oh yes it can. If a person comes to the belief that there is no god, then they might also conclude that there is no point for morality, or that there is no set definition for "morality"--so they might feel that they can do whatever they like without fear of "divine retribution". It has happened, albeit not frequently.

  • @allamericandude15 Most people that commit crime believe in god. Morality is inherit not based on god, the church didn't invent morality just look at it's history.

    In fact look at all the riligious people starting wars today in the name of thier faith.

    Yes the world would be way better off if there were no such thing.

  • @OliverFist Most PEOPLE believe in god anyway, so the statement "most people that commit crime believe in god" is redundant and therefore useless as an argument. It's sort of like "all toads are frogs, but not all frogs are toads."

    And yes, there are a lot of people who commit acts of violence in the name of god. But that's not the ONLY reason people commit violent acts. People commit violence for a political ideology, a reaction to a catastrophic event--heck, even a soccer team.

  • @scienceevolution94 u can do bad things in the idea of no consequences, the same as u can in the name of a god. this is a philisophical argument that humans will have to struggle with for a long time.  debate is always healthy though.

  • @randallschecter You say no consequences then you say in the name of god, in most religions you can be forgiven for your sins, therefore no consequences for the sin as long as you ask forgiveness. Atheists don't ask for forgiveness. Truth is there are no consequences for any unless they are caught. 95% of prison's are populated by people claiming to believe.

  • @OliverFist 95%?

    is that the average of the world or some country?

    in USA, 2009, 98,4% of prison population was religious.

  • @allamericandude15 That and facial hair.

  • @allamericandude15 You're basing that on no scientific evidence whatsoever. Whereas I can happily claim the opposite on the basis of evidence. I would say that as a general trend, I have found Atheists (such as myself) to have less traditional values (misconstrued as morals). Whereas theists are less morally empathetic towards others. Take the genocide on homosexuality in Ghana. It is founded on the basis of the Christian Bible claiming 'homosexuality is wrong.'

  • @jackhwo1 "You're basing that on no scientific evidence whatsoever." And you are? Then show me the grand social experiment you did to verify your claims.

    Plus, your argument about religious people only doing good things to stay out of hell doesn't stand up. Your basing that conclusion on absolute assumptions (which no good scientist would ever do). You and I BOTH know that it isn't true in all cases--unless you know how to read minds, and can tell what every religious person is thinking.

  • @allamericandude15 Firslty, I gave you evidence. There never has been a global scientific study based on this topic. However there is a clear link between religion and lack of morals through oppression throughout history ONE good example is the genocide going on in Ghana today (as I've already fucking said). And that statement was (quite obviously) meant to be a clear statement claiming the norm.... (continued)

  • @jackhwo1 Ha! You say your claims are "scientific" because you gave me one example as "evidence". In my original comment, I cited TWO examples as "evidence" and you said that I was basing my conclusion "on no scientific evidence whatsoever". That's awfully hypocritical.

    And you undermined your own argument. You say "religion was created to instill morals", but you also say "there is a clear link between religion and lack of morals". Religion is either moral or immoral. Which is it?

  • @allamericandude15 It has grown past its original intention. Created in a time of ignorance. Such as the intolerance of homosexuality and the tolerance of slavery. In our society it has an adverse affect because it is out-dated. However its intention was to instill morals. It the men creating it couldn't tell the future. They didn't know society would progress like this. Your argument is laughable. I'm not contradicting myself. You're panicking and making up bullshit.

  • @jackhwo1 That's irrelevant to the issue. Just because something is "outdated" does not make it immoral.

    Also, not ALL religious people are intolerant of homosexuality (like Ron Paul), and religious groups (particularly the Quakers) were the ones who STARTED the anti-slavery movement in America. So that argument is bogus.

    And you did contradict yourself, even if you don't want to admit it. You said two things that effectively mean the opposite of each other.

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  • @allamericandude15 Firslty, I was using the fact that the bible is outdated to EXPLAIN its immorality. And the fact it was written in times when oppression was acceptable is the reason it's immoral.

    Arguing like you is like arguing with a creationist. You are incapable of reason. I never contradicted myself, you act like you don't even know what that means.

    Nor did I ever claim all religious people were homophobic slavers. But A LOT are, due to their ignorance. Idiot.

  • @jackhwo1 I'm going to reply to your childish little insults with reason: You say "not all religious people were homophobic slavers". So you claim that religion condones immorality, yet you also say that not all religious people are immoral. Doesn't that fit my original argument that morality is based on individual behavior?

  • @allamericandude15 It not only condones but promotes immorality. It promotes homphobie, it promotes the murder of those who don't 'follow the one true faith.' That does not mean that it works on 100% of theists. There is no logic in your argument. Not everyone can be controlled by the Bible. That's one of my main points.

    I do not understand what must be wrong with your brain for you to consider this as logic. Your incompetence genuinely confuses me.

  • @jackhwo1 It's apparent that you are no longer capable of a mature discussion. If you're just going to resort to childish insults instead of actually debating the issue, I see no reason to continue. And you're basing your conclusions on a sweeping marginalization of religious people. If you were as "scientific" as you previously claimed to be, you would know not to make such generalizations. It only leads to the very sort of bigotry you claim to oppose.

    So I'm done.

  • @allamericandude15 Come to whatever conclusions you want, we both know you aren't using logic. So it doesn't make a difference what you say. It's all utter bullshit.

  • @jackhwo1 Whatever you say, man. You can call me "illogical" or "bullshit" or whatever you want--it's just empty words. You haven't been able to invalidate my hypothesis through reason, so you have resorted to name-calling to try and discredit me--but all it does is demonstrate your own lack of maturity. But if it makes you feel like you won, then go ahead--I can't stop you.

  • @allamericandude15 Exactly what hypothesis did you put forth? Clearly I've completely missed what you've been saying. You put nothing forth that could be discredited through logic. All you managed to do was call my statements contradictory when in actual fact I was ensuring my statements weren't bigoted.

    Name calling? Really? I call what I see, it isn't childish name calling it's stating facts. Like this. You're a hypocrit. Said one thing did something else. Im childish now?

  • @allamericandude15 ... (continued) Think about it. Religion was created to instil morals on those who were less inclined to natural moral values. Therefore the statement is quite accurate. I was never claiming that there aren't 'good' theists and 'bad' athiests. I happily admit the contrary.

  • @allamericandude15 Oh and by the way.

    When atheists do good things it's because of their morals.

    When theists do good things it's because they're afraid of hell.

  • I'm an atheist but I really don't see what the big deal is about Religion, I wouldn't even know people were Religious if I were to go to a mall or a store, no one discusses it. Dawkins is so vehement towards, it's almost become repugnant.

  • @12Ominous I love your comment