Bellof would have definitely taken the pair of them. He'd then probably have put the thing into the wall, but he would have passed the pair of them.
Not sure if the video's on YouTube, but watch Brazil from the same year, dry race, Senna in the turbocharged Toleman on the fast Rio track, Bellof in the atmo Tyrrell, and Bellof just strolled up to the back of him and swept past.
Bellof was something else, but he didn't have Senna's concentration - if Bellof wasn't overtaking people he got bored
That was really funny from you. Do you at least remember what was the difference in quality between a Toleman and any other F1 car in that year? If it wasn't for Senna Toleman's best qualification was last place among those who did finish the race.
That'd be the same basic Toleman Warwick had regularly put in the points at the tail end of 1983, and Johansson would take to 4th at Monza? The Toleman wasn't a race-winning car, but neither was it a dog. it was certainly superior to the Tyrrell, especially on a power circuit like Rio.
I'm not even sure what that last sentence means. You can't possibly be ignorant enough to suggest Toleman would have been back markers that year without Senna...
@CounterX01 agreed. the laps before the race was red-flagged, Senna was lapping 4 seconds faster than Prost, but Bellof behind him was even 2 seconds faster than Senna(!). One more thing: Senna stated that he had damaged his right front suspension over the cerbs in the chicane, under braking he could already see his right front wheel moving backwards and forwards. It is untrue that the interruption of the race stole him a victory. In fact, it saved him a 2nd place. Bellof would have won.
@TheColinChapman I agree but its irrelevent anyway as the tyrrells were DQ'ed from the season after the lead shot in the water tank thing so Prost would probably have had the win anyway!
cangrejero , you proabably remember me , i commented on this video 4 years ago , when it was a difficult time in my life , my account in that time was manrikPLA , this was one of the first videos i saw and i continue loving it , in that difficult times , when i remembered of this video , it produced me good feelings.
I'm brazilian and wachted this race by TV. Unfforgetable. It was a fantastic first show of A. Senna. Fastest lap many times in wet. I was a karting racer that time and listen from older racers about him in karts. The best.
Well, Mr Senna was actually fighting Ballestre off-track about his starting position. The FIA President put the pole position on the wrong, dirty side of the track so that, according to Senna, the pole sitter would loose out to the 2nd starting car anyhow (Prost.
He stated that Ballestre wanted to fix the championship this way, and he announced already prior to the start of the race that he would continue on straight and fix the championship himself, if the FIA would uphold this unfair decision.
If the GP was complete, perhaps Senna had won, with Prost in second place by adding six points. At the end of the championship, he would be champion defeating Lauda by difference of one point 73x72.
@melguizo27 I heard that German fans said that if the GP was complete, Senna pass Prost, Belof pass Prost and Senna and win the race. But that will never know ...
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Senna's car was narmally aspirated. That's why it could catch the top teams on the greasy conditions on a twisty circuit. He deserved the win, it's only because Prost's french that the race wasn't stopped a lap later as the rules meant the guy who was leading two laps before it was stopped was the winner.
no im fairly sure it was the hart turbo engine, hence the flames pouring out of his car. Bellof on the other hand did have the NA cosworth, which was obviously an advantage as he didnt have a ridiculous turbo boost to deal with.
Nesta corrida,o mundo começou a descobrir quem é o melhor piloto de corridas de todos os tempos! Ayrton Senna, ídolo não somente no Brasil,mas em todo o Mundo,eternamente vivo em nossas memórias e em nossos corações !!!
When Bellof finally got his turbo engine in mid 85 he went fastest at the official test in Silverstone. Unfortunately he died a few weeks later, having just signed a Ferrari contract
I wonder if he would have won SEVERAL titles for Ferrari if he had lived. The number of titles Bellof and countryman Schumacher could have brought together would be staggering!
i know that bellof's efforts were fantastic but in all fairness it was senna who was the star of the race. bellof had the ideal unturboed car with a tyrrel chassis (which were always good) and it turned out to be underweight anyway. senna in a car that handled like shit, turboed and complied with the rules was catching prost by 4 seconds a lap. senna was the rain master and also, bellof, still with an unturboed car was a lap down on senna in the portuguese grand prix in 1985. senna was the best.
Hmm, you might discuss if the car really was lighter. The problem of the normally aspirated engines was that they had a power disadvantage of up to 700 (!!!!)hp in quali and up to 400 in the race. And in addition these engines nearly had twice the weight as the turbos. The turbo cars could place the additional weight where they wanted to fulfill the weight minimum.
And by no means you can compare the 1985 Tyrell (only car without turbo) to the Lotus 85, perhaps the best car in the field
In the beginning of the 1985 stages it looked as though. in some ways like the Brawns today but they soon weakened from race to race to only an average car.
I had 3 years old when this season happened but what i know from reading is that Senna was able to made poles just because of the turbo engine for qualifying only, and he just win races because he did one stop strategy while others stopped twice.
Brawn GP won two races making two poles in equal conditions to the others, so the comparison may be right only at winter training.
It's a shame that nobody really knows the background why the race was stopped by Jacky Ickx.
Bellof also started in the Sportscar Series, at that time equal in speed to F1. He went on to kick Ickxs ass to win the 1984 world championship. Ickxs and Bellof had a relation filled with hate which eventually led to a harsh maneuvre in Spa by Ickxs which costed the life of Bellof.
Here in Monaco he only tried to prevent Bellof from winning, who went more than 3sec faster than Senna in the last laps.
I agree at what happened at Monaco, but and a lot of people didn't realize that Bellof was lapping Ickx's team car in a words team, but I do not think he ment to have him wrek like that. I absolutely have no idea other than to agree with you as to why that race was stopped. Yes Bellof was the fastest car in the field and I have heard stories that ySenna's wasn't 100% heathy at the time it was stopped
Just a quick note. A mechanic who worked for Toleman has since come forward and admitted that the one of the front pushrods on Senna's car was cracked (he had wacked a curb somewhere) and he may well not have finished had the race gone full distance.
Furthermore Bellof's pace was better in the final laps before the race was stopped and he could have caught Senna though as we all know passing him would have been a WHOLE different matter..
yes I have seen the full race, and Senna once made a mistake in the chicane after the Tunnel (I think it´s called Rivage) and jumped quite wildly over the curbs.
hehe, he was young and hungry...well, it was Prost's will to stop, he was claiming for the red flag, for Senna it wasn't too dangerous there, so he realised it only a half lap later.
Second, Bellof's car was DISQUALIFIED due to too low weight. GO READ before making up heroes. Read about the life of Ayrton and them come back to coment about best drivers.
It's funny how uninformed people like to find heroes where there are none...get your facts together.. GO READ.
Bellof did not had a turbo, which is BETTER to drive in the RAIN. In turbo powered cars we have something called TURBO LAG (go read about it...) also those turbo cars had an horse power "explosion" in the wheels, which turned them very difficult to control in rainy conditions... Senna managed to do this Magic with probably the WORST car in terms of turbo LAG in the grid!
right, but the power differance those days was so important, i would say even in races with rain the turbo engine had an advantage on normal tracks like Silverstone. But combining rain and a track like Monaco things stay different.
you are uninformed yourself if you think Bellof wasn´t one of the fastest drivers ever, especially in the rain.
If you don´t like his performance here watch the sportscar races. I don´t care if his team made his car underweight, I am just happy to get to see him brilliant as ever.
And he was the fastest in the greatest race car ever, the Porsche 956, with about 10 top class drivers in the same cars driving against/with him every race, like Ickx, Bell, Stuck and for single races Rosberg and Senna
well you can´t say that for sure, because Bellof was coming in big steps from behind, so it would have been a close fight between Bellof and Senna, if the race wouldn´t have been aborted.
But it seems most Senna fans are blind for other good racers.
Senna was in my oppinion one of the best of all time, but sadly Bellofs time was too short to compare him in F1 cars to Senna. But his sportscar races, and this race at Monaco showed his talent, even if the car was underweight and the turbo wasn´t that important in the rain, it was the worst car of the season. Sadly the world could never see, what Stefan Bellof could do in a competitive F1 car. But it would have shurely made the late 80s even more interesting.
i don't deny Bellof was a raw diamond. If race was going on full distance it's not impossible he won. His car was more reliable than the Turbos Prost and Senna drove. Anyway he had to stop before the end for the usual water refueling. His car was not powerful, but that day under that conditions other things were important.
a you a blind for the fact Bellof drove an underwight car. Tyrell usually stopped a couple of laps before the end for refueling water. But as the the race was unterrupted, Bellof's car was lighter than the others.
prost in rain no slouch!!!!!!!!!! u forgotten donnington.. senna in vastly slower mclaren passing 4 cars in one lap, including mr prost..senna is was so much better then prost.. outqualified him by over a second in monaco in 1988 and till then prost was meant to be monaco master.. senna was the moral winner in monaco.. in only his 1st season, passing a great like lauda on the straight..SIMPLY THE BEST....... SENNA FOR EVER
Thanks very nice Video say what you will about Senna but Prost no was slouch in the rain .But Senna was the master after all he won Monaco like seven times.
race was a cheat!!! was stopped early by a frenchman jacky ickx to allow prost win as senna was about to pass him. ironicaly senna did cross the line 1st but since race was stopped early results were taken from a lap previous...
many years later another frenchman jean marie balestre banned senna from jap grand prix giving title to prost... SENNA WAS CHEATED!!!
race was a cheat!!! was stopped early by a frenchman jacky ickx to allow prost win as senna was about to pass him. ironicaly senna did cross the line 1st but since race was stopped early results were taken from a lap previous...
many years later another frenchman jean marie balestre banned senna from jap grand prix giving title to prost... SENNA WAS CHEATED!!!
Please don't remember the part of history you dislike. There was no cheating there. Rules are rules. Prost had more points than Senna in 88 but still lost the WC to him. RULES ARE RULES.
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He also seems to conveniently "forget" when Senna pulled a Schumacher by hitting Prost in Japan. Funny how they all howl and cry about "cheating" when Senna sometimes did it too. Otherwise, the Senna/Prost years would have been more or less forgotten.
Imo in that conditions the power deficit was not a handicap. but it was a handicap starting from ultimate place. The turbo gap 1984 was still there and on that track and with that conditions with good driving skills and reliabilty sensation was possible. Prost perhaps could not finish. McLaren mad a mistake before the race covering too much the airscoope for the brakes.
Lauda complained about that. The brakes overheated. So i cannot agree with YRHDB who said Prost would have won that race.
This race show unreal performances from some cars. But don´t forget that low powered cars handle better than powerful ones in wet tracks. Besides that, the Toleman was a superb chassis, designed by Rory Byrne, the same designer of Schumacher´s Ferraris.
Monaco com chuva seria muito ruim, o melhor de Monaco é que na maioria das vezes tem pista seca, a corrida seria interrompida facilmente porque teria vários acidentes
Monaco with rain would be very bad, the best of Monaco is that the majority of races have dry track,the race would be halted easily because would have several accidents
Senna estava com a suspensão dianteira danificada após ter errado na Chincane... um dos mecanicos da Toleman afirmou, ao fim da prova, que a suspensão não duraria mais duas voltas...
ghe is better than senna. and senna comit a error at final lap,so he had problens on suspension(minimal but with the time this problens will be big, made him out)
This was a huge achievement for the best in racer in Monaco ever: Ayrton Senna. Not only a great champion, he was a better person too. In Lap 23 the best lap 1'54.674 just beating the great Lauda.
Eh divertido ver o Lauda se desesperar por ser ultrapassado por uma Toleman: "Wow... I should be driving very slow 'cause even a Toleman is getting my position!"
No you are missing the point. The tyrell was a fantastic car but with a Cosworth engine, it was underpowered. That day, the tractability benefits from having no turbo (lag) were huge. Interestingly, Pat Symonds recently disclosed that when Senna's car was examined after the race, he had a cracked rocker arm, suggesting that if Ickx had not flagged the race, Ayrton might have retired, particularly as if it had dried, it would almost certainly failed (Source Autosport UK)
Yes. I'm brazilian and i'm a Senna fan and i'm really heartbroken...but imagine how Senna was feeling...no can do. If the race stopped at those conditions,why would they start it in the first place?!?!? Kind of weird....or not eh?
Prost:"I'm having problems with my car and Senna is catching me up!Snif snif snif!"
Ickx:"Ok ok. I will Finish the race on next lap.Just hold 1st."
Ickx->Porsche official racer.
Prost-> Mclaren tag porsche racer.
Remember the 1989 Suzuka grand prix too. Prost hit Senna...Senna came back and won..Senna disqualifyied by FIA's president Jean (french man)...Prost world champion...
Ironic race marshal Jacky Ickx ended that wet race halfway. Bellof could have easily won it. His handling of wet conditions, is still second to none. I'm sure Stefan Bellof had a bone to pick with his former Rothman's teammate, for ending the race early. Unfortunately when Bellof tried to overtake Ickx at Spa-Francorchamps- it cost him his life. He could have been F1 world champ a full decade before Schumacher.
Bellof might've won (once he got to senna he would have still had to pass :P) but it wouldnt have mattered because he would be disqualified for being underweight.
bellof would probably won the race, he was the quickest on the track, even though he was driving a tyrell, not turbocharged car... Sadly he died far too early =((
I liked Senna and Bellof a lot. But Prost had a huge problem that day, his brakes didn't heat up to the optimal temperature, just like Lauda's in the other Mc Laren. They were so many crashes that day the direction decided to stop the race and Prost loss the 84 championship because of that decision (he got only the half the points for his victory).
but if the races wouldnt been stopped senna and bellof have have overtaken prost... dont know who would have won think bellof and so prost would got about the same points.. maybe 0,5 and so won the world championchip but dont know :D
stefan what?! hey crazy, senna started on 13th with one of the weakest cars on grid, a Toleman. Survived upon many crashes and slippering cars and wasn´t allowed to beat Prost because Jackie Ickx race director finished it before the final overlapping avoiding a shame for the french driver against the rookie Senna. Bellof was disqualified, hahahahaha!!!
Thanks a lot for the video but the music is horrible. Man why the hell did u put music??? THis is Senna's proof of being a rain master. One of the best Grand Prix for him. I can't believe you screw that vid with this shit music/// I'm disgusted
Sigh. Here we go again. You seem to be able to read. Good. Go read my profile, and see that what I do is put F1 clips to music. Say it with me: There is no shortage of F1 clips on youtube without music. You can use the lovely search bar feature of youtube to find them. Go compliment them instead of bitching over here.
Big fan of Old F1 and Modest mouse..awesome bro!
streethassled 7 months ago
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jamestargetedindiv 7 months ago
This was fantastic.
RIP Senna
RIP Bellof
Bellof should have won and Tyrrel should not have been DSQ from 1984
kzimera 8 months ago 3
hahaa I love how Senna speeds to the finish line and passes Prost!!! After that Senna waved his hands saying he won!! hahahaa
auomauom 8 months ago
stefan bellof as well very good race :)
superava1982 10 months ago
Bellof would have definitely taken the pair of them. He'd then probably have put the thing into the wall, but he would have passed the pair of them.
Not sure if the video's on YouTube, but watch Brazil from the same year, dry race, Senna in the turbocharged Toleman on the fast Rio track, Bellof in the atmo Tyrrell, and Bellof just strolled up to the back of him and swept past.
Bellof was something else, but he didn't have Senna's concentration - if Bellof wasn't overtaking people he got bored
CounterX01 1 year ago
@CounterX01
That was really funny from you. Do you at least remember what was the difference in quality between a Toleman and any other F1 car in that year? If it wasn't for Senna Toleman's best qualification was last place among those who did finish the race.
pauloacsilva68 1 year ago
@pauloacsilva68
That'd be the same basic Toleman Warwick had regularly put in the points at the tail end of 1983, and Johansson would take to 4th at Monza? The Toleman wasn't a race-winning car, but neither was it a dog. it was certainly superior to the Tyrrell, especially on a power circuit like Rio.
I'm not even sure what that last sentence means. You can't possibly be ignorant enough to suggest Toleman would have been back markers that year without Senna...
CounterX01 1 year ago
@CounterX01 agreed. the laps before the race was red-flagged, Senna was lapping 4 seconds faster than Prost, but Bellof behind him was even 2 seconds faster than Senna(!). One more thing: Senna stated that he had damaged his right front suspension over the cerbs in the chicane, under braking he could already see his right front wheel moving backwards and forwards. It is untrue that the interruption of the race stole him a victory. In fact, it saved him a 2nd place. Bellof would have won.
TheColinChapman 10 months ago
@TheColinChapman I agree but its irrelevent anyway as the tyrrells were DQ'ed from the season after the lead shot in the water tank thing so Prost would probably have had the win anyway!
LB1973 10 months ago
@LB1973 that's true, definitely.
TheColinChapman 10 months ago
Beautiful tribute... 8)
curva130r 1 year ago
Senna is the best!!!
otaviobenassi 1 year ago 2
cangrejero , you proabably remember me , i commented on this video 4 years ago , when it was a difficult time in my life , my account in that time was manrikPLA , this was one of the first videos i saw and i continue loving it , in that difficult times , when i remembered of this video , it produced me good feelings.
uudrakgvens94 1 year ago
Senna passaria Prost em uma ou duas voltas no máximo, isto antes da bandeira vermelha.
10Muringa 2 years ago
I'm brazilian and wachted this race by TV. Unfforgetable. It was a fantastic first show of A. Senna. Fastest lap many times in wet. I was a karting racer that time and listen from older racers about him in karts. The best.
MarcoCarval1 2 years ago
@MarcoCarval1 corre de kart ainda?
TiagoWakabayashi 1 year ago
that was probably the best race of f1 ever , are u agree?
uudrakgvens94 2 years ago 26
Well, Mr Senna was actually fighting Ballestre off-track about his starting position. The FIA President put the pole position on the wrong, dirty side of the track so that, according to Senna, the pole sitter would loose out to the 2nd starting car anyhow (Prost.
He stated that Ballestre wanted to fix the championship this way, and he announced already prior to the start of the race that he would continue on straight and fix the championship himself, if the FIA would uphold this unfair decision.
skyhigh747 2 years ago 12
prost's lucky day
bygota 2 years ago 21
@bygota No, no. Is Prost'a BAD LUCKY DAY.
If the GP was complete, perhaps Senna had won, with Prost in second place by adding six points. At the end of the championship, he would be champion defeating Lauda by difference of one point 73x72.
Sorry for the bad english - google translate.. ^^
schinvelox 1 year ago 5
@schinvelox you are agree. And don´t forget the good performance of bellof with tyrrell
melguizo27 1 year ago
@melguizo27 I heard that German fans said that if the GP was complete, Senna pass Prost, Belof pass Prost and Senna and win the race. But that will never know ...
schinvelox 1 year ago
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@schinvelox you are right , and don´t forget the great race of Bellof with Tyrrell
melguizo27 1 year ago
@schinvelox no Prost was 3rd
superava1982 1 year ago
AYRTON SENNA FOREVER!!!
vandokajuru2 2 years ago 7
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The music is totally displaced in this video
gerschpa 2 years ago
Senna,, simply the best... Vc é o kra Ayrton, o melhor e totalmente insubstituível... FOREVER AYRTON OF BRAZIL
astolphi1000 2 years ago
Bellof was catching senna and prost, so senna wouldn't have won had the race gone the full distance
crbassassin 2 years ago 3
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Senna's car was narmally aspirated. That's why it could catch the top teams on the greasy conditions on a twisty circuit. He deserved the win, it's only because Prost's french that the race wasn't stopped a lap later as the rules meant the guy who was leading two laps before it was stopped was the winner.
droob11 2 years ago
no im fairly sure it was the hart turbo engine, hence the flames pouring out of his car. Bellof on the other hand did have the NA cosworth, which was obviously an advantage as he didnt have a ridiculous turbo boost to deal with.
burgy2590 2 years ago
Great vid. I went to a Monaco GP in the rain.. but it wasn't this bad!!!
YouReportSport 2 years ago 3
Nesta corrida,o mundo começou a descobrir quem é o melhor piloto de corridas de todos os tempos! Ayrton Senna, ídolo não somente no Brasil,mas em todo o Mundo,eternamente vivo em nossas memórias e em nossos corações !!!
Dalton2709 2 years ago
the red flag was used for a prost dont lose for a novice toleman driver!! senna forever!! in wet tarmac no one can beat him!!!
josemariadobairro 2 years ago 4
RIP Bellof & Senna.
breitling911 3 years ago 13
When Bellof finally got his turbo engine in mid 85 he went fastest at the official test in Silverstone. Unfortunately he died a few weeks later, having just signed a Ferrari contract
DARTCG 3 years ago
I wonder if he would have won SEVERAL titles for Ferrari if he had lived. The number of titles Bellof and countryman Schumacher could have brought together would be staggering!
starlionblue 2 years ago
i know that bellof's efforts were fantastic but in all fairness it was senna who was the star of the race. bellof had the ideal unturboed car with a tyrrel chassis (which were always good) and it turned out to be underweight anyway. senna in a car that handled like shit, turboed and complied with the rules was catching prost by 4 seconds a lap. senna was the rain master and also, bellof, still with an unturboed car was a lap down on senna in the portuguese grand prix in 1985. senna was the best.
wolfmother4eva 3 years ago
Hmm, you might discuss if the car really was lighter. The problem of the normally aspirated engines was that they had a power disadvantage of up to 700 (!!!!)hp in quali and up to 400 in the race. And in addition these engines nearly had twice the weight as the turbos. The turbo cars could place the additional weight where they wanted to fulfill the weight minimum.
And by no means you can compare the 1985 Tyrell (only car without turbo) to the Lotus 85, perhaps the best car in the field
DARTCG 3 years ago 3
Lotus 85 was the best car? Are you kidding?
luisolf 2 years ago 3
In the beginning of the 1985 stages it looked as though. in some ways like the Brawns today but they soon weakened from race to race to only an average car.
DARTCG 2 years ago
I had 3 years old when this season happened but what i know from reading is that Senna was able to made poles just because of the turbo engine for qualifying only, and he just win races because he did one stop strategy while others stopped twice.
Brawn GP won two races making two poles in equal conditions to the others, so the comparison may be right only at winter training.
luisolf 2 years ago
Bellof got disqualified unfortunately and the podium position went to Rene Arnoux
sharpbleydz500 3 years ago
It's a shame that nobody really knows the background why the race was stopped by Jacky Ickx.
Bellof also started in the Sportscar Series, at that time equal in speed to F1. He went on to kick Ickxs ass to win the 1984 world championship. Ickxs and Bellof had a relation filled with hate which eventually led to a harsh maneuvre in Spa by Ickxs which costed the life of Bellof.
Here in Monaco he only tried to prevent Bellof from winning, who went more than 3sec faster than Senna in the last laps.
DARTCG 3 years ago 6
I agree at what happened at Monaco, but and a lot of people didn't realize that Bellof was lapping Ickx's team car in a words team, but I do not think he ment to have him wrek like that. I absolutely have no idea other than to agree with you as to why that race was stopped. Yes Bellof was the fastest car in the field and I have heard stories that ySenna's wasn't 100% heathy at the time it was stopped
dalebshelton 3 years ago
Senna = The Rainmaster
Baia1220 3 years ago 4
Great vid!
kevinmosleyI 3 years ago
Just a quick note. A mechanic who worked for Toleman has since come forward and admitted that the one of the front pushrods on Senna's car was cracked (he had wacked a curb somewhere) and he may well not have finished had the race gone full distance.
Furthermore Bellof's pace was better in the final laps before the race was stopped and he could have caught Senna though as we all know passing him would have been a WHOLE different matter..
georgewynne69 3 years ago
"he had wacked a curb somewhere"
yes I have seen the full race, and Senna once made a mistake in the chicane after the Tunnel (I think it´s called Rivage) and jumped quite wildly over the curbs.
BMWizardofOz 3 years ago
it was behind Rosberg, when in bad visibility he jumped over the curb in the fast chicane.
sargatanas88 3 years ago
Yes he jumped up there.
luisolf 2 years ago
Prost lost the championchip because the race had stopped in the middle, by 0,5 pt
jotaok 3 years ago 3
Bellof was killed the day I was born.
Bennyboy1985 3 years ago 4
ur probably his reincarnation mate
alexdelaiglesiav 3 years ago 3
Hope so :P
Bennyboy1985 3 years ago
1984 were a golden year for Senna and also for me because I was born
wiseguysdeniro 3 years ago 4
I think it was a great race by all top 3 drivers, Prost, Senna and Bellof.
Prost driving very intelligent for the whole race, always thinking more about the championship, having nothing to prove.
So he slowed down, after all his championship opponents fell back/out.
Senna and Bellof driving to show their talent where really blasting round the track.
Bellof getting 10th from last in the first 3 laps, and both storming through the whole bunch of experienced top drivers, but also taking more risk.
BMWizardofOz 3 years ago
Well, but Prost did not become world champion.
schopfheim91 3 years ago
Senna, the king. In this year, Senna was robbed. If the race had been stopped, Senna had been won.
The rain man... We miss you, Ayrton Senna!
Only to remember, in this year, Senna drove with a Toleman.
ricacardo1987 3 years ago 2
it´s hard to say how good or bad the Toleman was at that day in these conditions.
Just like it´s hard to say how good or bad the Tyrrell of Bellof was exactly.
And I think it´s impossible to know who would have won, as accidents and mechanical failures could have happened to anyone of the drivers.
The only thing that is known quite sure, is that Prost would have let Senna (and maybe Bellof)overtake, being no danger for the chapionship.
BMWizardofOz 3 years ago
It' amazing to see how they made it easy for other drivers to overtake them.
Today is NOT like this!
xr3prata 3 years ago
today they close the all doors, yes. other spirit and other tecnology, drivers were more busy to handle there cars without electronic helps...
sargatanas88 3 years ago 2
and there was much more respect for each other back then.
Masrkimi94 3 years ago
why senna continue racing after passing prost when the race was already finished?
alexdelaiglesiav 3 years ago
hehe, he was young and hungry...well, it was Prost's will to stop, he was claiming for the red flag, for Senna it wasn't too dangerous there, so he realised it only a half lap later.
sargatanas88 3 years ago 4
Awesome video, and nice song. That was the good years :'(
R4YMI 3 years ago 2
thanks ;)
joanscx 3 years ago
what's this song?
joanscx 3 years ago
The song is called "Edit the Sad Parts" by Modest Mouse. It's an extended version which is currently out of print.
Cangrejero 3 years ago
I love the 96 video, but this one hits home a little more. Great choice of song for it, the feeling at the end of the song just... fits.
sevopie 3 years ago
Thank you for that. :)
Cangrejero 3 years ago
Second, Bellof's car was DISQUALIFIED due to too low weight. GO READ before making up heroes. Read about the life of Ayrton and them come back to coment about best drivers.
ph4nt0m22 3 years ago 2
It's funny how uninformed people like to find heroes where there are none...get your facts together.. GO READ.
Bellof did not had a turbo, which is BETTER to drive in the RAIN. In turbo powered cars we have something called TURBO LAG (go read about it...) also those turbo cars had an horse power "explosion" in the wheels, which turned them very difficult to control in rainy conditions... Senna managed to do this Magic with probably the WORST car in terms of turbo LAG in the grid!
ph4nt0m22 3 years ago
right, but the power differance those days was so important, i would say even in races with rain the turbo engine had an advantage on normal tracks like Silverstone. But combining rain and a track like Monaco things stay different.
sargatanas88 3 years ago 2
you are uninformed yourself if you think Bellof wasn´t one of the fastest drivers ever, especially in the rain.
If you don´t like his performance here watch the sportscar races. I don´t care if his team made his car underweight, I am just happy to get to see him brilliant as ever.
And he was the fastest in the greatest race car ever, the Porsche 956, with about 10 top class drivers in the same cars driving against/with him every race, like Ickx, Bell, Stuck and for single races Rosberg and Senna
BMWizardofOz 3 years ago 3
Is the car retiring at 2:32 missing it's front wing? If it's not it's a weird looking car.
edkev94 3 years ago
is safety car already used in '84? this kind of race definitely need one :)
yaagitu 3 years ago
Well...Senna won that for me, even now, nothing will shake me on that.
Megaloryan 3 years ago 2
well you can´t say that for sure, because Bellof was coming in big steps from behind, so it would have been a close fight between Bellof and Senna, if the race wouldn´t have been aborted.
But it seems most Senna fans are blind for other good racers.
BMWizardofOz 3 years ago
exactly... senna wasn't a good driver... he was the best of all time... if you know something about f1 you should know that
rso 3 years ago
Senna was in my oppinion one of the best of all time, but sadly Bellofs time was too short to compare him in F1 cars to Senna. But his sportscar races, and this race at Monaco showed his talent, even if the car was underweight and the turbo wasn´t that important in the rain, it was the worst car of the season. Sadly the world could never see, what Stefan Bellof could do in a competitive F1 car. But it would have shurely made the late 80s even more interesting.
BMWizardofOz 3 years ago
why didn't he continue to race in f1???
rso 3 years ago
because he died in a sportscar race at Spa in 1985, when he already had a ferrari contract for 1986.
BMWizardofOz 3 years ago
i don't deny Bellof was a raw diamond. If race was going on full distance it's not impossible he won. His car was more reliable than the Turbos Prost and Senna drove. Anyway he had to stop before the end for the usual water refueling. His car was not powerful, but that day under that conditions other things were important.
sargatanas88 3 years ago 2
a you a blind for the fact Bellof drove an underwight car. Tyrell usually stopped a couple of laps before the end for refueling water. But as the the race was unterrupted, Bellof's car was lighter than the others.
sargatanas88 3 years ago
but tyrrel don't have turbo!
senna broke the suspension in the last lap
he will stop
anda bellof will pass prost
Luger911 3 years ago
senna the true winner!prost+balestre+fia=losers
airtongarbin 3 years ago
prost in rain no slouch!!!!!!!!!! u forgotten donnington.. senna in vastly slower mclaren passing 4 cars in one lap, including mr prost..senna is was so much better then prost.. outqualified him by over a second in monaco in 1988 and till then prost was meant to be monaco master.. senna was the moral winner in monaco.. in only his 1st season, passing a great like lauda on the straight..SIMPLY THE BEST....... SENNA FOR EVER
specialsenna 3 years ago 6
Thanks very nice Video say what you will about Senna but Prost no was slouch in the rain .But Senna was the master after all he won Monaco like seven times.
Mr911cerrera 3 years ago 2
jacky ickx is from belgium!
francoispiraud 3 years ago
race was a cheat!!! was stopped early by a frenchman jacky ickx to allow prost win as senna was about to pass him. ironicaly senna did cross the line 1st but since race was stopped early results were taken from a lap previous...
many years later another frenchman jean marie balestre banned senna from jap grand prix giving title to prost... SENNA WAS CHEATED!!!
specialsenna 3 years ago 8
race was a cheat!!! was stopped early by a frenchman jacky ickx to allow prost win as senna was about to pass him. ironicaly senna did cross the line 1st but since race was stopped early results were taken from a lap previous...
many years later another frenchman jean marie balestre banned senna from jap grand prix giving title to prost... SENNA WAS CHEATED!!!
specialsenna 3 years ago 4
Please don't remember the part of history you dislike. There was no cheating there. Rules are rules. Prost had more points than Senna in 88 but still lost the WC to him. RULES ARE RULES.
lcville 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He also seems to conveniently "forget" when Senna pulled a Schumacher by hitting Prost in Japan. Funny how they all howl and cry about "cheating" when Senna sometimes did it too. Otherwise, the Senna/Prost years would have been more or less forgotten.
starlionblue 2 years ago
@specialsenna Ickx is Belgian.
kzimera 8 months ago
hey great video and great music! really soothing to watch. haha. strange.
redsnow88 3 years ago 2
Senna: The King of Rain
andemarc 3 years ago 5
Senna and Bellof = the RAINMASTERS
intruZo1991 3 years ago 5
I love your video. Great choice of music. It´s a pitty that today F1 is only about money and not about racing anymore, unlike in those days.
heinzbecker1980 4 years ago
Let´s quote Michael Delany alias Steve McQueen:
"Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing is...it's life...anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
And that´s a fact. A fact that was be effective for Bellof and Senna!
CitroenC4WRC 4 years ago 4
I would love to see what Murray and James Hunt think of this gp..
Rosssmith21 4 years ago
This came from footage from the US broadcast, so I don't even have that audio.
Cangrejero 4 years ago
Bellof hat damals auch den Rundenrekord auf dem Nürburgring (old version) geknackt......
der beste Deutsche......bis heute
dragmile11 4 years ago
fastest lap: Ayrton Senna 1.54,334 -
2nd fastest: Stefan Bellof 1.54.978
another consideration: in dry conditions the wonder was not possible. Senna came from 13th , Bellof from 20th (the last!)
sargatanas88 4 years ago 2
Imo in that conditions the power deficit was not a handicap. but it was a handicap starting from ultimate place. The turbo gap 1984 was still there and on that track and with that conditions with good driving skills and reliabilty sensation was possible. Prost perhaps could not finish. McLaren mad a mistake before the race covering too much the airscoope for the brakes.
Lauda complained about that. The brakes overheated. So i cannot agree with YRHDB who said Prost would have won that race.
sargatanas88 4 years ago
No, I said the 1984 championship, not that race...
YRHDB 4 years ago
hi citroenc4wrc! Superseb Fan?
ok let's check the starting grid. You are right. Bellof is the only one with aspirate engine. His teammate Brundle nqf, Marc Surer (Arrows-Ford) nqf.
sargatanas88 4 years ago
Sure SuperSeb Fan!
CitroenC4WRC 4 years ago
That´s right saragatanas88...by the way...did you know that Bellof's car was the only non-turbocharged car in the whole field?
That was real racing by Stefan Bellof...the greatest german driver! Greater than Schumacher!!!
CitroenC4WRC 4 years ago 2
a good race from Bellof, too. But his car war irregular because underweight. anyway: fastest lap from ayrton.
sargatanas88 4 years ago
Hadn´t this race been stopped, Prost would have become 1984 World Champion at the end of the season.
YRHDB 4 years ago
This race show unreal performances from some cars. But don´t forget that low powered cars handle better than powerful ones in wet tracks. Besides that, the Toleman was a superb chassis, designed by Rory Byrne, the same designer of Schumacher´s Ferraris.
YRHDB 4 years ago
Great highlight video. Monaco Grands Prix of the past are always fun to watch
bakrob00 4 years ago
Bellof and Senna are real legends. They showed to the world this day how to drive in a wet track with bad cars.
Bellof e Senna são lendas de verdade. Eles mostraram pro mundo como pilotar em pista molhada com carros tão ruins.
jordanluciano 4 years ago 2
Monaco com chuva seria muito ruim, o melhor de Monaco é que na maioria das vezes tem pista seca, a corrida seria interrompida facilmente porque teria vários acidentes
Monaco with rain would be very bad, the best of Monaco is that the majority of races have dry track,the race would be halted easily because would have several accidents
gabrieljuventus 4 years ago
Senna tava andando mais rápido. quando Senna passasse Prost ele ia se mandar de vez!!! é improvável que Bellof o alcançasse!!!
pw7369 4 years ago
Senna estava com a suspensão dianteira danificada após ter errado na Chincane... um dos mecanicos da Toleman afirmou, ao fim da prova, que a suspensão não duraria mais duas voltas...
e Bellof vinha em terceiro, tirando tempo...
Rodrigo121 4 years ago
We need more wet monaco races
psihadal 4 years ago 3
more 2 Laps and Bellof wins...
Rodrigo121 4 years ago
Senna + Bellof = true legends
dmc1200 4 years ago 2
Great Race, and great song!!!
what is the name of this song???
RIP, senna and bellof
101182ironman 4 years ago
Incredible, Senna and Bellof bacame famous that day, but, the quiestion is, imaginate that the race didn't stop, who would win, ¿Senna or Bellof?
PS: There's also rain at the tunnel :D
Dani13bskt 4 years ago
senna of course, if the race didn't stop senna would be first :)
LudgeroODC 4 years ago
Bellof would have caught him before the end
me35656 4 years ago
Bellof was faster.
capy15 4 years ago
belof of course!
ghe is better than senna. and senna comit a error at final lap,so he had problens on suspension(minimal but with the time this problens will be big, made him out)
Luger911 4 years ago
music?
pzmarcelpz 4 years ago
great video and great Stefan Bellof
mrmik986 4 years ago
just perfect...
Miss you SENNA =(
LudgeroODC 4 years ago
2 legends were made that day,
within ten years both were lost,
RIP
gypsyhater 4 years ago 3
Lap 11,34s is the difference between prost and senna.
Lap 31,7s is the difference.
Senna,i miss you,rainmaster and king of monaco.
RIP Senna and Bellof.
boxerevolution 4 years ago
Senna the Man who can win in rain.
pawel1818 4 years ago
Senna and Bellof were really awesome in this race. I miss both of them, they were the best in these years
schusselam 4 years ago 2
anyway, it wasnt 3 seconds a lap faster which was the how much time bellof took from senna each lap towards the end
me35656 4 years ago
what a race
me35656 4 years ago
dam I wish I knew the world of F1 when I was younger.I missed the great stuff.
kimosabe34 4 years ago
This was a huge achievement for the best in racer in Monaco ever: Ayrton Senna. Not only a great champion, he was a better person too. In Lap 23 the best lap 1'54.674 just beating the great Lauda.
joseavs 4 years ago
catching senna...in an inferior car...at monaco...in the rain...
me35656 4 years ago 2
Stefan Bellof is not belong us for 22 years
He was surely one of the best Sportscars racer alongside with Derek Bell, Jacky Ickx and Henri Pescarolo(and a lot more)
RIP Stefan Bellof(1957-1985)
sbellof84 4 years ago
ESta foi a grande corrida do Senna.
Eh divertido ver o Lauda se desesperar por ser ultrapassado por uma Toleman: "Wow... I should be driving very slow 'cause even a Toleman is getting my position!"
monstavicius 4 years ago 2
so what bellof started last and in worst car
me35656 4 years ago 2
No you are missing the point. The tyrell was a fantastic car but with a Cosworth engine, it was underpowered. That day, the tractability benefits from having no turbo (lag) were huge. Interestingly, Pat Symonds recently disclosed that when Senna's car was examined after the race, he had a cracked rocker arm, suggesting that if Ickx had not flagged the race, Ayrton might have retired, particularly as if it had dried, it would almost certainly failed (Source Autosport UK)
EarAche1964 4 years ago
Yes. I'm brazilian and i'm a Senna fan and i'm really heartbroken...but imagine how Senna was feeling...no can do. If the race stopped at those conditions,why would they start it in the first place?!?!? Kind of weird....or not eh?
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
Prost:"I'm having problems with my car and Senna is catching me up!Snif snif snif!"
Ickx:"Ok ok. I will Finish the race on next lap.Just hold 1st."
Ickx->Porsche official racer.
Prost-> Mclaren tag porsche racer.
Remember the 1989 Suzuka grand prix too. Prost hit Senna...Senna came back and won..Senna disqualifyied by FIA's president Jean (french man)...Prost world champion...
Prost--->Professor of crybabys
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
Stefan Bellof was so great in this race, as always
anyone got the whole race?
BMWizardofOz 4 years ago
RIP Bellof
Surely the german could have become world champion in the late eighties/early nineties.
Lacatus3007 4 years ago
Ironic race marshal Jacky Ickx ended that wet race halfway. Bellof could have easily won it. His handling of wet conditions, is still second to none. I'm sure Stefan Bellof had a bone to pick with his former Rothman's teammate, for ending the race early. Unfortunately when Bellof tried to overtake Ickx at Spa-Francorchamps- it cost him his life. He could have been F1 world champ a full decade before Schumacher.
Dilberto88 4 years ago
Ickx was an idiot anyway, losing the championship to someone who died with four races left, and he was considerably close.
StylesP1987 4 years ago
Bellof might've won (once he got to senna he would have still had to pass :P) but it wouldnt have mattered because he would be disqualified for being underweight.
bjsdoc 4 years ago
bellof would probably won the race, he was the quickest on the track, even though he was driving a tyrell, not turbocharged car... Sadly he died far too early =((
Nhartl206 4 years ago
nice
tomazrui 4 years ago
Excellent choice of music!! This was Senna's debut year and the year I was born!
Brainpumper 4 years ago
for the guy asking "Stefan what?"... check this site out
forix(dot)com/8w/bellof(dot)html
123McAnus321 4 years ago
Yes,Bellof was the fastest!!!and if the race wouldn`t been stopped,i think he had won it!!!
Thanks for this beautiful video,Cangrejero!!!!!
schroener 4 years ago
Senna was with a damaged suspension, the fastest lap of the race is from Senna.
luisolf 2 years ago 4
what a fantastic sound track!
which sound track is it?
senna and bellof: 2 great drivers
they had ever known the risk of this sport
but they loved it so much.... as me
i'll never forget them
marcofreres 4 years ago
The song is 'Edit the Sad Parts' by Modest Mouse. I'm glad you enjoy it!
Cangrejero 4 years ago
I liked Senna and Bellof a lot. But Prost had a huge problem that day, his brakes didn't heat up to the optimal temperature, just like Lauda's in the other Mc Laren. They were so many crashes that day the direction decided to stop the race and Prost loss the 84 championship because of that decision (he got only the half the points for his victory).
hoplageis57 4 years ago
I am sure a lot of Senna fans are heartbroken lol
Rosssmith21 4 years ago
but if the races wouldnt been stopped senna and bellof have have overtaken prost... dont know who would have won think bellof and so prost would got about the same points.. maybe 0,5 and so won the world championchip but dont know :D
bamboootscha 4 years ago
check the time at the last 4 laps...!!!!
loooool to you!!!!
The Tyrrell was as bad as the toleman.both hadn`t turbochargers!!!
schroener 4 years ago
Agreed, at the time the race was stopped, Bellof was fastest on track.
Cangrejero 4 years ago
The Toleman had a Hart turbo engine. And actually turbo meant a disadvantage on the slippery surface.
Katyusha44 4 years ago
He turned the turbo setting down, anyone would probably do that because the track is bumpy and twisty.
StylesP1987 4 years ago
i haven't known that. but makes sense.
Katyusha44 4 years ago
stefan what?! hey crazy, senna started on 13th with one of the weakest cars on grid, a Toleman. Survived upon many crashes and slippering cars and wasn´t allowed to beat Prost because Jackie Ickx race director finished it before the final overlapping avoiding a shame for the french driver against the rookie Senna. Bellof was disqualified, hahahahaha!!!
pedroaug 4 years ago
Stefan Bellof was the master in this race!!!
The fastest race driver ever... Bellof and the Porsche 956 in the group c!!!! symply unbeatable
schroener 4 years ago 2
Thanks a lot for the video but the music is horrible. Man why the hell did u put music??? THis is Senna's proof of being a rain master. One of the best Grand Prix for him. I can't believe you screw that vid with this shit music/// I'm disgusted
basic86 4 years ago
Sigh. Here we go again. You seem to be able to read. Good. Go read my profile, and see that what I do is put F1 clips to music. Say it with me: There is no shortage of F1 clips on youtube without music. You can use the lovely search bar feature of youtube to find them. Go compliment them instead of bitching over here.
Cangrejero 4 years ago