Gods wants noone to parish meaning not just his chosen jews but also his gentile elect Romans 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love .
@MrSlippin22 That is perty much adding to scripture, yes Israel is Gods elect talked about in romans 9 , but the gentiles who choose Jesus are His elect and every one who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved , you are twisting scripture, when you read in chapter 9 of romans it is talking about the Jews!!!!!
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
( JEW OR GENTILE "EVERYONE")How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
IF I COULD MAKE YOU BORN AGAIN I WOULD BUT I CANT SO JUST FORGET IT, GOD BLESS
@MrSlippin22 Just saying when God calls elwct he is talking about Isreal thats is where most calvinist get there doctrine , the elect is also the born again child of God which every one can be if they call on Jesus name,I am already born again john 3 3 and got my name in the lambs book of life , glory to God , God bless you!!!!
@MrSlippin22 That scripture in romans 10 is so good romans 10:9-10 got saved in 1978 Glory to God, around the end of May , also filled with the Holy Spirit,It is marvelous when God saves us,
That is great to hear! I have a 9 year old daughter and many other loved ones who have not been saved and born again ,John 3:7 Marvel not that I [Jesus] said unto thee, Ye must be born again
John 1:13 They are reborn--not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God
I am very worried about them more so for my daughter of course if she is to God forbid die right now she will go to hell.how can I get the holy spirit in her and make her born again?
@MrSlippin22 Keep praying for her she will come in,you can't make a person saved born again, but you can stand on scriptures for your family I also will pray that your family will come in God Bless you!!!!!
All men to be saved not just Jews but also Gentiles Romans 9:24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles. Faith is given to you by God you cant have faith unless god gives it to you( I didnt have faith until i was saved it is a gift given by God). Romans 10:14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?
If you have been chosen/elected by God, he will make it known to you. A mark is set upon you, and written in your identity (deep in your soul). Just as a mother is certain she bore her son, the elected will know they have indeed been chosen. Jehovah does not keep secrets from his people. If you are chosen he will confirm it to you.
God choses sinners , and he saves sinners once you are saved by grace u are the elected of God if was God can choose you, then what makes you think he could choose everyone , he did choose the world John 3 16, he chose the world so the any one can be saved
Romans 8:20 against its (Human) will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope,(The eager Hope is sending his son Jesus Christ who was crucified on a tree to save us )
Psalm 25:12 Who, then, is the man that fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way chosen for him. (God Chooses there way not them)
Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
Adam and eve had free will to choose to eat of the tree or not to eat of the tree, they disobeyed God , they ate of the tree and cursed human kind to hell. now we dont have free will anymore God created everything so because they broke the one law our creator said not to break, we ae cursed "ate of the tree" . God sent us a savior for breaking this lawand his name is our lord and savior Jesus christ. now does that make sense?
@MrSlippin22 yes there is still free will otherwise you wouldn't sin, here is a few verses from Gods word, romans 5 17 - end of the chapter, it is explaining about adam and eve and because they sin or because we sinned, (thou we are forgiven) we are in rightstanding with the father,also roman 3 21- the end talks about us being in rightstanding with God,
Yes we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.as you sated in Romans 5:17 and its true we are delivered from sin thru our lord Jesus as you stated in Romans 5 17 no human being has free will for salvation, in fact God even hides the truth from people he dont want saved. Matthew 13:11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. ill send you my testimony verifying that i had nothing to do with my salvation, God Bless
@MrSlippin22 well God does draw all men to Jesus when you lift Him (Jesus) up, when you call on the Lord you will be saved but first you need to call on Him, calvinism is a heresy, some don't even think they are saved , thou they called on Jesus and got saved, they go by feelings and not by faith ephesians 2 8-9 says by Grace are you saved through faith , it is a gift from, God, God's favor! He wishes none would perish all would come to Him! salvation He did for everyone even the whole world,
1 Corinthians 12:3 no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
2 Thessalonians 2:16 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth
@kerryscottmiller Well I would disagree, I know sexual immorality is wrong and I feel awful about such actions but Its difficult to get through it. By that standard nobody is truly repented sins man will still sin.
@Onetruthrgv - I agree with you there., repentance is never perfect for anyone and no one will ever live free of all sin no matter how long you have been a Christian. This is a big topic and impossible to address in the space given here but Check out Luke 14.1-4, repentance is daily. If you want to talk about this in greater detail please go to christbiblechurch net
This is an interesting sermon..............Repent and believe...........that sounds like a choice...........if man has no free will, then how can he repent and believe on his own? And, then he says come to Christ............how can one come to Christ (according to Calvinism) unless God has called him? This is all so confusing! Either we can choose to come to Christ or we can't. Which is it? I believe in Christ and trust Him....but, I am a sinner and I make mistakes even fall. So, what's up
Thats a very strange question that i have heard over the years. How did Paul know he was saved? how did Cornelious know he was saved? If God has saved you, you will know it. Its not a question of giving intellectual accent to what the Bible says. This person is a simpleton. Salvation, is of the Lord, its something He does, and if He is doing it, how in the world, can you not know. Lets stop kidding ourselves.(2 Cor 13:5)
@torvasal1 It is not a question but an act, we can believe all we want but if we do not live the word, manifest the word into flesh... then we are false followers.. Salvation is something You do.. you cant wait or the lord to save you... Let the lord see your actions.. Dont bow down to nations... do not indulge in modern ways of life.... Jesus rejected the Roman empire... so if he was here he would reject this so called Christian nation America...
@MrLchittum yes Amen:1 jonn 5:1 He that has the Son has life, and in John it says he that belives on Jesus in no wise he will cast him out ,romans 8 says the Spirit bears witness with our spirit, that we are children Of God, if then we are children we are heirs of God and Joint heirs with Jesus,
It is the Hexagram (Seal of Solomon, six pointed star)
Name of a man = Solomon
Number of its name = 666 talents of gold collected by Solomon in one year
Three pairs of triangles with their apexes touching. Each pair collectively represents the number 6, which qualifies the whole symbol as a graphical representation of 666
Solomon was the apostate king of israel that led judah into idolatry and worship of the gods of the mystery religions (satan)
I think the best way to see if you are elect is if you can figure out revelation and see all the deceptions that satan has planning. if you kare pretty darn confident that you wont be deceived then you are probably elect. Israel is mystery babylon, if this surprises you then you probably aren't elect, or maybe I'm not lol
my idea of his whole point is why are you sitting there asking yourself these questions? Get up and follow Jesus. you will find your answer along the way think about it. If someone starts smoking, well there not addicted right away but then they find themselves wanting more, but others will hit a cig and never touch it again. I realize that's a strange analogy but i hope it makes sense
Why do we make salvation so complicated? We are confusing unbelievers at every corner. No wonder the Christian faith is constantly made fun of. No wonder why atheist are atheist. Sometimes, I want to just slap the Christian faith in the face. I have decided to stop labeling myself as a Christian due to the hypocrisy and confusion thereof. Most of my arguments are not only with unbelievers but even more so, with "Christians".
@gallantentry He seems to be saying that to be saved, one must "Repent and Believe". I say that because he actually says exactly that, and he writes it too. I used to believe that the word repent was part of it until I searched the scriptures. I could find nothing other than faith in Christ as to salvation. Maybe you know of scriptures that I didn't find?
@fxtrader92 Repentance of unbelief not a repentance of works. Otherwise Jesus died in vain. He did it all and we have this confirmed in His words of, "it is finished."
Repent & successfully stop sinning & be super holy & SINLESS (which is damn near impossible!!) in our GUILTLESS, HUMAN/HUMANE NATURE FIRST so God will finally get around to deciding if u r holy enuf to be transformed & saved from hell?!?!
As 4 belief - even Satan BELIEVES in God!! So do MOST pagans, etc. &"Christians"!
They r just STUCK IN THEIR HUMAN NATURE. If God wants change, HE NEEDS 2 change u!! U can NEVER change ur own nature!!
An unsaved person has "Other priorities" to think about and deal with b4 God decides if He likes ur effort/proof of conversion from ur NATURAL HUMAN NATURE b4 He may be willing to change u & save u?!?!
I HOPE no natural disasters or illness comes! & many folks have limited will power to even exercise or stop smoking!! How much harder & longer will it be for humans to CHANGE FROM THEIR NATURAL NATURE?!?!
ls this guy basically saying u must 1st become damn near sinless b4 u can get saved?!
God predestined that ALL who choose to BELIEVE the Gospel will be saved, and that ALL who choose to reject it will be damned. He DID NOT predestine who will believe or reject!
@Eromhsa1 Can you prove your last statement Scripturally? Because I'm sure the Calvinists can prove you wrong Scripturally, so be read to give an answer (as 1 Peter 3:15 states). ;)
Oh? Satan & demons definitely BELIEVE in CHRIST & GOD!! R they saved? Is belief the ONLY thing or must u do like dude explained in the video, become sinless 1st B4 u even BEGIN to ask & try out God 4 salvation. As he said, "they got other things 2 think about 1st" which is interesting. What if there's a accident, natural disaster, or illness? Do they still have 2 become PERFECT 1st?!
Would like ANY1 who understand/agree w/ u 1st proving ur conversion from sin to answer this
@LaneCh how god like it if i go have sex with a women (my wife) and have three kids at once and i look at them into there eyes and say well i like this one and that one but the third one i dont like him he will never call me father no matter how much he crys out to me i will kill him with no remorse and no chance for him to get to know me. gods stupid election is like the same thing i said above
@changeishere2008 This seems noble of you trying to do this, honestly. I have no hidden motives, I promise as a brother in Christ. But I would like to ask you though, can you disprove TULIP scripturally? Can you prove free-will Scripturally? What did Jesus pay for on the Cross and in His death? If for our sins...then we do not need to "accept" Him, correct? because the sin of unbelief would have been paid for on the Cross. But it is not us that needs to accept Him, but He needs to accept us. ;)
@1986Lonelyguy you are comparing your ways to God's ways....yet you state God's stupid. :/ probably not the smartest thing to say, I'm not trying to insult you, but giving you a warning. If God is real and His election is something that happens...that's gonna be something brought up on the day of judgment I bet. :/
The message and hope of salvation is not complicated Man sinned- God wanted a family He sent His Only begotten Son on earth to pay for that sin. 2000 years later I heard this message and beleived it. I wanted to know Jesus and follow Him. Why are you twisting the Gospel and preaching falsehood ?
people please stop buying this Lie. It's not of the bible it's sick. ask the Holy Spirit to show you the truth. This doctrine is called Calvinism / 5 point Spergon/ T.U.L.I.P google these key words and find out if these type of teaching lines up with the word of God.
Calvinism: God made us sinners and then sacrificed himself to himself to create a loophole in a rule that he created to save only some of us from a situation that he put all of us in. Don't even try to twist it. If God is sovereign and controls everything, predestines our lives, then he is responsible for this entire situation.
Do unsaved sinners really ask if they are elected by Christ.?Depraved natures look for common ground.? A depraved sinner can turn from sin.? They can repent without Christ.? Than why would they need Christ? They would already have ability for change.This guy believes election but says all men have ability to repent without Christ.! Repent and come to Christ, this what he said Depraved sinners cannot repent from a body of sin Only with God's Spirit can a sinner repent and get a regenerate mind
How Do I Know If I'm One of God's Elect - Well you should have a superior sense of self importance, be a religious selfrightious nutter helps so does a highly inflated ego.
I am a Christian but I wrestle with some of these doctrines we are supposed to believe. One thing is the matter of belief. How exactly does believing something save me from anything? How does me saying, "Yes, I believe that is true," give me salvation?
@backwoodsninja First, I would say that this isn't merely about belief in the way we have come know belief. It is faith. It is acting on something you believe to be true in so much that you would give your very life for it. I look at relationships to understand this principle. Marriage is built on this ideal. Your marriage is saved by the belief that you have in your spouse. If you believe they are doing bad things, then you will act accordingly and the trust will be broken..
@backwoodsninja BTW, love the name. If that trust is broken and you turn away from your spouse, then your relationship is doomed. See, I look at salvation in the light of relationships. I will probably be in a minority here, but I view this as God seeking those who will trust Him. This is a grand relationship. I want to be a part of Christ and to known Him and the only way I can do that is to trust Him. If you love your wife or husband; the things you will do to show them love. Mere..
@backwoodsninja It is far more than being "saved" because you believe in something. I will probably get shouted down here because I definitely take a somewhat unorthodox view of God. When I listen to a video like the one above, I shake my head. I would still ask a person that looks at the Bible through the glasses of Calvin; how do you truly know you are one of the elect? God picks and God saves who He wills. You may think you are, but really you simply misguided in your own depraved mind.
@razputin34 I think sometimes we just don't read the Bible in its complete narrative. You have people yelling about Romans 8 and 9, completely separating out any context for the passages they quote ad nauseam. I wish people would look at the whole of the Bible and examine what directive God gave Adam and Eve. They chose to listen to another voice and God gave them what they wanted. Why did God spare Noah and start over with him? FAITH. Noah TRUSTED and was saved. God didn't make Noah..
@backwoodsninja through all the trials that you have experienced in your life; through them all, do you find that despite all the reasons to not believe, do you find in your soul the ability to say and respond as Jeremiah did, who through all of his own sorrows, suffering and trials, was still able to say:
@backwoodsninja Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall. My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me. This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. Lamentations 3:19-24
@backwoodsninja If you find in your own soul the presence of the words similar to what Jeremiah stated in this passage, it is only by the work of the Holy Spirit in your soul who has caused your soul to be regenerated unto believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You see my friend: the trials we face are for our own. It is God who is keeping us (Psalm 121). The trials we go through is God's mercy to us to inform us that he is indeed keeping us through the valley of the shadow of death.
@backwoodsninja we know that he is keeping us, when through it all, we find, as already stated, that great is his faithfulness unto us, as his mercies are renewed to us every morning by the presence of faith still found within our souls. Man-made faith will crumble at the slightest of trials. But God-given faith will endure the greatest of trials. Faith itself is not saving anyone. It is God who is saving.
@backwoodsninja God is saving those he is saving through faith. As 1 Peter 1:5 reveals: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. According to God's purpose and according to his sovereignty, God has determined to save his people through faith. It isn't faith by itself that is saving anyone, but God who is doing the saving; and that through faith.
@backwoodsninja my friend, where it comes to 'these doctrines' that you wrestle with: let me encourage you to meditate upon and learn to keep close to your heart: Psalm 131. Trusting that as the Lord wills, and as you grow in the knowledge of his grace, that he will give unto you that wisdom and understanding as is necessary and determined by the Lord himself. Let your heart be always grounded and established in the Lord himself in all things as you humbly wait upon the Lord for all your needs.
@HermitintheRain Yes, well, election, in the Calvinist view is possibly the most horrifying story ever told. God, who ordained everything, including the Fall of Man, in His great mercy chooses to save certain people and condemn others. So, basically, he is saving us from a situation that he put us in in the first place. We are His ant farm, and he's a big kid with a magnifying glass. How can Calvinists even preach this stuff and expect anyone to love God?
@backwoodsninja God knew from before He made the universe that people would turn against Him. He hasn't turned against us. God knows that ALL of humanity will not truly repent and follow Him, but He also knows that some will (and He knows who will! and who won't. He knows everything!) We should love Him because of the God He is. We should love Him because He made us and He loved us first. We should love Him because He sacrificed His Son to save us from Hell! That's enough for me.
@backwoodsninja God's power is unlimited, he can doe as he pleases, there's nothing we can do about it. You're suppossed to love and accept Him for who he is. If you say my God is too loving to predestine someone to hell for his glory then you've made your own God and that is idolotry and that will not be toloerated. He is sovereign and just. For the ones he chose to save they should be grateful and love the lord that much more.
@blindergrinder Does he really need to predestine someone to hell in order to glorify himself? Really? I think if there is a God, he'd be better than that.
@backwoodsninja Well it's in the bible. Like i said his power is unlimited and he can do as he pleases. Just think about it for a second, election explains why some believe and others don't and if you did believe in God it sounds like you wouldn't believe in the God of the bible it sounds like you'd make your own god that suits your beliefs.
@blindergrinder Well, in that case, I hope that God puts something in my mind that causes me to believe the necessary things that save me from going to hell just by believing them. Should I also close my eyes to science and believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old?
@backwoodsninja yeah i hope he does too, but lets pretend you do have a choice. Do you really believe you're an accident? A Chemical reaction? If you truly believed in what you do then you must agree with Hitler, Stalin and Mao. You should just go ahead and kill anyone that pisses you off because who is going to judge you. If all we're going to do is die then we should just kill ourselves. We have no meaning no purpose it won't matter how long we are here because we will just die. So depressing.
@blindergrinder Now that just doesn't make any sense at all. If I went around murdering people, I'd end up dead or in jail, and rightly so. If all we're going to do is die, we should kill ourselves? Why? What sense does that make? Guess what, we are going to die. Why would I want that to happen any sooner than it has to?
@backwoodsninja It does make sense if you have nothing to believe in. For some reason you see the value in life and you don't believe but if there's nothing to believe in no life after death who is to stop us from living for our selfish gains? The law? Just kill yourself if you get caught you're gonna dtie anyway. I think deep down inside you're not sure of your beliefs. Let go of your pride and think about what i said. Maybe God has elected you and will use the Holy Spirit to draw you to Him
@blindergrinder I appreciate the guidance. As far as living for selfish gains, let's think about what kind of society we want to live in. I don't want to die. I realize I will die someday, and that's kind of a depressing thought, but why shouldn't I want to make the best of my life while it lasts?
@backwoodsninja That's right man you should. I think God later in your life will reveal himself to you. You seem to be open to the idea of it. Let's not think of the kind of society we men want to live in. We are wretched things. Let's think of the society Christ wants us to live in. If we all had something to look forward to when we die, not just eternal life but rewards to recieve then just think about all the good would come out of serving and helping others instead of ourselves.
why would you say you are wretched brother? would you say that to a child ? you are wretched? We have to watch the words we use. Children could be hearing and affected. I am saved by grace. Jesus has paid my sins in full. He is seated at the right hind of God. when I sin knowingly or unknowingly He advocates for me. The child that He redeemed. God does not want me to walk around with my head down saying things like I am wretched He would rather hear me say I am blessed,
@changeishere2008 i am forgiven, i deserve no grace, i sin everyday and i try my best to repent. We are all wretched we are the ones that should've died no that cross, but no Jesus paid for that., and i don't walk with my head down i rejoice knowing that one day my sins will not only be forgiven but forgotten as well.
@changeishere2008 Martin Luther used a Latin phrase, simul justus et peccado, translating "simultaneously just and sinner." That we can, and are wretched, but yet saved and declared righteous by a holy God. This may seem strange, but Scriptures state it. "While we were sinners Christ died for us." Not, "we were sinners and became righteous then Christ's death was applied to us." I'm sure we agree, even in Romans 7 Paul says there is nothing good within him it was not in past tense but in present
This video elevates our own personal subjective self perceptions & thus elevates us relative to God. The proper thing for a Christian to do is to rely on the objective manifestations of Gods grace. He raised up His Church & gave us the signs of His sacraments to give us objective assurance.
This is slightly off in thinking and philosophy. God's elect are chosen by God to have a special purpose in the last days. Those who choose to be with God through Jesus Christ are saved. There is a huge difference. People are taking the whole "elect'' deal too lightly and throwing the title around. The elect have received a direct message from God and know who they are and only they know who they are.
BTW, I don't konw about you but where I live we got nailed with a Snowpocalypse and I have to go dig myself out again for the 3rd time. 18+ inches here in Northern Michigan.....why oh why didn't I move to Florida....wait a minute....I must have been predestined to live in Michigan. This really stinks!
I like this. Election isn't the message for Non Christians...they cannot claim it. But when they repent they can shout, "Thank you God for Choosing me before the foundation of the World!"
Sorry, please read the second paragraph first [...We are not just elected etc...] and then the first one [...They will live on...] otherwise it's not going to make sense.
They will live on the New Earth after the renovation of the earth by fire [which is what they are “saved” from.]Redeemed Believers [the Bride of Christ] will reign with Christ from heaven over the inhabitants of the earth. So, unless you hate God and reject His rule totally, you will live on the New Earth in the perfect conditions of the Garden of Eden. I am sure that everyone who has ever lived and/or died will in some or other way be given a chance to choose for or against God’s rule.
We are not just elected... we are elected for a purpose. The purpose in this case is to become the Bride of Christ. That is not to say that all those who do not form part of the Bride of Christ go to hell! There are three kinds of people: Unbelievers, Saved Believers and Redeemed Believers. Saved Believers are those who believe in God, go to church, pray etc. but who are not born-again.
With all do respect, where does the Bible say there is a difference between SAVED and REDEEMED? I have never heard this in my whole life. You're either saved=redeemed or not! Again, with all do respect, this is NOT in the Bible and it's way into the heresy land. Please, rethink this.
@flotopo You are right. I was made aware of the [fact] that there is a difference between the meanings of the words "Saved" and "Redeemed". I looked it up in the dictionary and came to the conclusion that this fits in nicely with the fact that the Bible says there's going to be a New Heaven and a New Earth. It is my own theory. Sorry!
The natural mind cannot comprehend the things of God.. if it makes you feel better to believe you have qualified for salvation because you chose Him , then feel better..as for me I will believe what is written .. I was dead in my trespasses and sins, helpless, blinded , held captive my soul (mind, emotions and will ) was in bondage , I was totally deprived of any "freedom" Romans 9:16 " it doesn't depend on the man who wills or the man who runs but on God who has mercy
@edantila Read the rest of Romans 9, it is about the Jews and how God has, is and will deal with them. Romans 10: 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I respond to the faith that God has given me through his word and trust in the sacrifice Christ made for me. God is not some kind of cosmic soul rapist who forces me against my will to be regenerated.
@kingseller1 So, if faith comes by hearing. Explain to us why God allows some people to hear the Gospel while others don't. In other words, is it because God can't get the Gospel to all men or choose not to get it to all men. And if it's "free-will" then why does God deny some men the chance to exercise their "free-will" choice by keeping the Gospel away from them. Acts 16:6. Doesn't look to me that God gives men equal opportunity. Do you know why?
@MrNickKane Read Romans 1 and you will have the answer to your question. Nut shell is Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened... Then the sins of the fathers were visited on the third and fourth generations and so on and so forth. Now it is the Christians job to preach the gospel to every creature.
@kingseller1 Because HE is Sovereign! For "free-will" to be exist all men must have equal opportunity. If no equal opportunity, then all men do not have "free-will". Free-will is an arrogant Doctrine because it must conceded the fact that some men's wills are less equal than others! In Acts, the apostles were forbidden by God not to go into Asia. Do you think that all men in Asia stayed alive until the Gospel arrived? Obviously not. What about North America? Japan? What about them?
@MrNickKane God is sovereign but he does not exercise his sovereignty at the expense of our volition. You don't know what was already going on in Paul's mind, you don't have a clue what God was already doing in his heart prior to the Damascus Rd. We get the account of what happened but not the intimate detalis. Arrogancy is to think like you do that you are somehow better than the lost. You somehow merit salvation where others are excluded from it. You have a white supremacist religion.
@kingseller1 Do you really believe that between 33ad and 70ad there was nobody that God refused to bring the Gospel to? Do you think the people in South America at the time were hearing it? Why not? Don't they get the same opportunity you did to hear the Gospel and make a "free-will" decision? One has to overlook a whole lot of reality to believe in everyone having a "free-will"
@MrNickKane 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If the sovereignty of God is what saves us then why isn't everyone saved, since it is God's will that ALL should come to repentance?
This is the problem with those who espouse decision-ism, they claim that the sufficiency of the Sacrifice (Christ's) is dependent on man's will. However, according to Scripture, the sufficiency was always God's. Man's role was only to present a sacrifice and the decision of whether or not it atoned for sin was God's. Now, they claim God has changed and has given man the authority to chose whether or not Christ is sufficient. How is the acceptance of Christ's sacrifice man's and not God's now?
@Mr...I am not sure where you are getting that idea from, but it is not from those of us who are not Calvinists. God accepted the sacrifice of Jesus, God the Son, and in order for that sacrifice to count for man, man must accept Christ as Savior. Just as the Israelites had to put the blood on their doors during the first passover. The sacrifice was made but the man had to put it on his door for it to count for him. The way you put it seems like everyone is saved regardless of their beliefs.
@kingseller1 That is the worse exegesis I have read for the Passover. You are not sure what I am getting at because you obviously have no insight to the Old Covenant sacrificial system. You interpret "command" as "suggestion". A command from God, simply put, means "Do this or I will destroy you!" Your will isn't exactly "free" if you have "fear" motivating you to do something. You'll find out on your deathbed how "free" that will is.
This dude is a pompus jackwagon. Anyone can be 'elect' and whether or not you are elect depends on if you choose to accept Jesus. You cannot repent of your sins, that is preposterous. You can repent of your beliefs about God, and Christ. Man is not predestined to salvation, but is saved according to the foreknowledge of God.
@kingseller1 This is an interesting perspective. Every time I here anyone rail against Sovereign Grace and the Doctrine of Election or Predestination, they tell us what it isn't. Enlighten us and tell us what it is. Also, tell us where it is in the Scriptures that God handed the decision over to man as to whether or not a sacrifice was acceptable to man. It seems pretty clear that it has always been God's but you believe different. Please, explain.
@MrNickKane Sure no problem. John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. If you believe in Jesus, that he is indeed God, that he died for our sins, being the only acceptable sacrifice to God the Father, and you believe that he rose again from the dead, trusting in him you have eternal life. If you reject the deity of Christ, the sacrificial death, or the physical resurrection ur lost.
@kingseller1 John 3:36 is descriptive and not a command. So, you do have a problem. Christ is pointing out the benefits of those who already believe as oppose to those who don't. Read it again. Is that really the best you can come up with? You still can't find any Scriptures emphasizing man's choice. Let me save you the trouble. The New Testament always emphasizes God's choice. Seriously, get a concordance and put it to the test. Look up choose, choice, chosen. Yield to the Word.
@MrNickKane And how does one arrive at a belief? You are quite pompus and arrogant, and I think if you are relying on some kind of supernatural soul rapist to choose you because of some kind of sovreign grace you are the one who is going to be quite shocked on your deathbed.
@kingseller1 Really, "soul rapist" you mean like when Saul was on the road to Damascus to persecute Christians and Christ appeared to him. Knocked Saul on his unwilling butt. Blinded him, sent him to the house of his enemy and then changed his name to Paul? Yeah, that's the Salvation I believe in. One can only believe in Christ if Christ chooses to reveal Himself to them. Until then, they abide in ignorance under the wrath of God.
@MrNickKane Calvinism is nothing but a poorly thought out philosophy. Do you really think that God waited 1500 years to reveal his design to the world...and then when he did he revealed it to a Frenchman??? Come on use your head, the plan of Salvation is simple and available to all man, all who believe what God has said in the Bible. Jesus is God, he lived on this earth a perfect life and gave his life as a sacrifice acceptable to God, and rose again proving that he is God.
@kingseller1 I think that anyone who has really studied the history of the matter would not make such a statement. For instance, do you realize that Clement (the Apostolic one) believed that the elect were a specific number? And if you were using your head, you'd realize that the Gospel has not been offered to all men. I have even met some of the descendants of those who never heard the Gospel. That's a reality you can't reconcile.
@MrNickKane Romans 1 reconciles it quite nicely. And Clement of Alexandria was a heretic plain and simple. Just like his protege Origen. I don't care about the history, because I have studied it. Mostly dudes, like you, who twist the scripture and practice eisogesis.
@kingseller1 I'm still trying to understand what the argument is here...help me understand. It's pretty simple if we take it to scripture and what's perfectly clear.It will separate the division.
@kingseller1 "All who trust that are saved all who reject that are lost. Plain and simple."
There isn't a Calvinist who would argue against that. But here is the point the Reformers were making. That even the credit for your decision to accept goes to God and the you have done nothing, and nothing means just that...nothing, to merit your salvation. There is no "quid pro quo" in Salvation. If you'd stop and think about it, what your a claiming is that Calvinist do not believe they make...
@kingseller1 a decision. Well, we do. What we defend is that the Glory in all things goes to God. Go and read Augustine, Luther and Calvin carefully. Go and study the Reformation a little closer and you'll understand what provoked them to do so. They felt the Catholic Church was exalting man's will and authority to a point of heresy. And no offense but, historically, most denominations that advocate "free-will" are usually oppressive. And oppression is what the Reformation is all about.
@MrNickKane Right, exactly. Luther and Calvin were trying to reform a corrupt system full of lost men. Kudos to them for that, but they were both quite flawed and mostly wrong. Where they did get it right was by grace through faith... but that is about it for both of them. Calvin came up with a philosophy to explain salvation. He was still a statist and favored killing those who disagreed with him, just like he learned from the mackerl snappers.
@kingseller1 In all the time I have been on here. Not once were those who were willing to condemn me were willing to administer the Gospel to me. That shows me that those, such as yourself, are only here to extol yourselves. Your just as guilty a being motivated by the same hate you accuse others of. But it's all about to change for you guys.
@MrNickKane Yeah whatever. I don't look to history to get my theology. I haven't condemened anyone, and I have given the gospel to many on youtube and in real life. I have presented the gospel to you in our discussion as well. It is up to you to accept or reject it. (Why do you go to a SBC church, they are not calvinist at all, at least the ones I know.) You shouldn't be so quick to dole out judgment and then try to play innocent. You have a weak unbiblical argument.
@kingseller1 No, one looks at history to see how God works providentially through his creation. Actually, the SBC roots are Calvinistic. Robert Selph wrote a wonderful book on the history of the SBC and the Doctrine of Election. Both Paul Washer and David Platt are Reformed and SBC. More and more members of the SBC are going back to their roots as well.
@kingseller1 "You have a weak unbiblical argument."
Sticks and stones may break my bones but Christ will never fail me! I have to ask, does anyone other than you buy into your rhetoric? And remember, judgment is a whole different animal than condemnation. I never stated anyone was lost. I guess "free-will" exempts you from the fact that the Scriptures only gives God the authority to curse and condemn.
@MrNickKane Do you know my relatives I was speaking of? Have you heard their testimony? Well then I guess you are talking out of school once again. If someone says they are trusting in baptism, confirmation and church membership to get to heaven do you acknowledge their salvation?
@kingseller1 No, I may not know them but then again, only Christ really knows them. But I believe it's awful risky to grab the gavel out of God's hand and bang it around in condemnation of others or even speculate it if they at least attend a Church that isn't cult-ish. My family is Mormon and I haven't spoken to them in years but I am not eager to send anyone to destruction. Wow! I can't believe that you and I would have agreed at one point.
@MrOh I think we agree on a great many things, you are just wrong headed in your soteriology,but that is ok, everyone has the free will to be wrong. I think in other circumstances (real life) we could have a good debate that isn't broken up by 500 character segments and be able to depart friends. Your LDS relatives go to a church that teaches that Jesus is not God. The bible calls those people antichrists, they preach another gospel they are anathema (LDS) so I think its pretty safe.
@kingseller1 Since I haven't spoken to my relatives, I wouldn't want to risk a condemnation. If God could do what He has for me, he could do it for them. But here is the question, How much credit do you give God for your decision to chose Christ. No, this is not a trick question and, no, I am not trying to bait you. I ask everyone this question. And if you say "all". What is your definition of "all".
@MrNickKane 1 of at least 2 Ok one more time. I give God all the credit for my salvation. God presented the plan of salvation through a preacher. I heard it I believed it, because God gave me the faith to believe. Now you are saying Amen, however here is the difference. Faith is believing what God said, God provided the evidence and I agreed with God that the evidence is true and faithful and I accepted Christ's offer to provide me with salvation. I did not do anything, I just believed.
@kingseller1 So, if you give God all the credit for your salvation. Then you are admitting that He gave you the belief and faith as well. Or, for you, is belief and faith separate from salvation?
@kingseller1 I know you'll claim you answered that. And you did. However, the first have of your response says that God gave me the faith to believe but then you said "here is the difference" and then made it sound as if belief was of your own doing.
@MrNickKane Right, because I would have those skills if I was because everything a 16 yr old girl writes is incoherant, and misspelled! But if I get too much older I might start wishing I was 16 again.
@MrNickKane Just as if you were to tell me your name is MrNickKane, you have presented the evidence and I believe you. Or if I were to tell you I live in Michigan, in the lower penninsula 50 miles east of Lake Michigan, and 50 miles south of Traverse City. Now it is up to you to believe me or not. So do you have faith? Who gave you the faith?
@MrNickKane I am not sure what you mean by that. Is salvation not an argument? Is not God making a case for your salvation throughout the Bible? Is not man making a case for doing things his own way throughout the Bible and history? So therefore couldn't it be said that all salvation is done through apologetics? No not for you because you think it is your destiny to be saved. That is the difference between us. You were destined to be saved, and I accepted God's offer to be saved.
@kingseller1 "Is not God making a case for your salvation throughout the Bible?"
God doesn't make "cases" he dictates, decrees and executes those decrees. God makes a case for His Son throughout the Bible. He obviously shows that throughout the Old Testament, man cannot, through his "will" exercise the ability to obtain salvation through obedience and ritual, so, he sent His son to do what will could willfully obtain.
@kingseller1 "Is not man making a case for doing things his own way throughout the Bible and history?"
No, man is failing miserable at living up to the standards that God dictated. The Old Testament testifies to the fact that man, under his own ability, could never live up to the standards God establishes. That is why in the New Covenant, God writes His laws upon our hearts and causes us to walk in His statutes. We have not input in this. It's all God or we would be back where we started.
@MrNickKane If God dictates and decrees why do you and I still sin? God said that we are to be Holy as he is Holy, I am not sin free are you? So if God can force us to be saved, then he can force us not to sin. And since God doesn't want us to sin and we do sin, how can you say we have no free will?
Silly response. You know that Paul addresses that in Romans 7. You remember: 21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind...
@MrNickKane So then we do have free will. Or are you going to say that the flesh has limited omnipotence? The flesh forces us to sin and God forces us to be good? Or do we choose to sin and choose to reject God's will for us? Seriously I don't have time for this today, but go ahead and answer I will catch up with you tomorrow or Friday.
Before Christ, our wills have been infected by sin. Every element of us have and our nature is therefore sinful. We cannot exercise any decision apart from our will. When we come to Christ, we are free in Him but because we are in the flesh and the world, we still wrestle with sin and experience dying. However, we have the moral agency, the ability to decide right from wrong. However, sometimes the desire of the flesh can cause us to stumble. Rom 7.
I wish it were that simple. But there is a difference. And it's not an argument. I prefer it to be a discussion. I think the more we will discuss this, the more you'll understand what the reformed position truly is. The reason there is so much dissension over this is because we concentrate on single words or fragments of the position. That and the fact that some of those who hold this position do a bad job of articulating it.
@MrNickKane The difference is that you are trying to philosophize the mechanics of salvation. Calvinism takes 14 1000+ page volumes to explain what Jesus said simply in John 3:16. I disagree with most of what I have read from the likes of Jonathan Edwards, John Calvin, and what I have heard from Paul Washer and John Piper. IMO Washer is a pompus blowhard who thinks he is the only one on the earth who is saved. Piper is a little better.
@kingseller1 John 3:16 is simple? Really? Then explain to me why Nicodemus approached Christ and what Christ said in John 3:1-15. Go ahead. I would LOVE to read this. BTW- applying your same logic, it could be said that God wasted too many years, manpower and ink to write the Bible when all he needed to write was John 3:16. That's poor logic. I let Washer and Piper handle themselves. As far a pompous, there are no "buts" when they give God ALL the credit. LOL
@kingseller1 Washer speaks the truth and doesn't tickle ears. Doesn't mean he's 100% correct nor is anyone. But he's very solid. Also check out John MacArthur
@harleycraig1 Yeah, I don't always agree with some of the ways Washer articulates his points at times and I am not quite sure I agree with his eschatology (because I am not sure exactly what it is) but I LOVE his passion and his uncompromising spirit when it comes to much of what he espouses. CJ Mahaney is another one worth listening to. As is David Platt.
@MrNickKane So then after we are saved we have free will? Come on now. Either we have free will and exercise it prior to salvation and after, or we do not have free will before or after we are saved. And don't say that moral agency and free will are not the same thing. Even with moral agency the agent must choose to act.
@kingseller1 I never said that we have "free-will" after we are saved, I said that we are freed from the bondage of sin, that if we be in Christ, only then, are we free-indeed. In other words, before Christ, our will is in bondage to the wrath of God. No matter what, you cannot use your free-will to free you from that wrath. Only the death of Christ could provide that means. And once again, you are acting as if the Calvinist does not believe in moral decisions. However, here's the difference.
@kingseller1 Before Christ, you cannot make ONE not ONE correct or righteous decision that would put you in good standing with God. Why? Because you mind is corrupted by sin. It's dead in trespasses and sin. You cannot even seek after God. However, after God RENEWS your mind, you can desire to do what is righteous, you can seek after God and it's free from the law of sin and death. What I cannot understand is how you separate the "mind" from the "will", if the mind needs renewing Rom 12:2...
@kingseller1 Then you decision making process needs renewing. This obviously implies that your mind was somehow damaged or restricted prior to needing a RENEWING. It's interesting to note that nearly every free-willie will admit to many limitations to the will but then claim its...free. But, yet, it's not from the limitations. In other words, it's okay that sin has limited it but you'll be d@mned before you'll believe that God limits it. Amazing. Truly amazing.
@kingseller1 A choice to act isn't the argument. We don't choose whether Christ's death was sufficient for our salvation. That's God's alone. You never read the words "offer" and "choice" in the same paragraph anywhere in the New Testament. But we do see calling and response taught. Sheep responds to the Shepard. Not because they become sheep but because they already are sheep. Christ conveyed this idea later in John 10:25-30. He doesn't look at them at tell them they don't believe because...
@kingseller1 they refuse to believe. He tells them they don't believe because they are not already sheep. As he says, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." Later, He tells the disciples "You did not choose me, but I chose you" but you would tell the disciples that they made the decision. If you'd go back and read, Christ never asks someone to follow or offers someone the chance, He ALWAYS commands them to follow Him. "Come, follow me." What you lack are clear cut...
@kingseller1 examples of your formula of Salvation. I have put the opportunity out there from someone to show me where Christ or Paul emphasizes man's choice using the "free-will" Gospel scheme and no one person can give me an example. They also refuse to offer a definition of Predestination and election. I know why, because once you study the meanings of those words, you cannot get around that their usage in Scripture that solely emphasizes God's choice. But it's apparently no that...
@kingseller1 "how can you say we have no free will?"
What you fail to understand is that the Reformer believes that man has a free moral agency. The reason they do not prefer to claim a "free-will" is do to the fact that they believe the "will" along with the rest of the person has been affected by sin. Just as Paul outlines in Romans 7. He wants to do good but finds that he can't always do so. But here is the difference. Before we come to Christ, we, by nature are enemies of God.
@kingseller1 However, after we come to Christ, we, by nature, are now friends of God. Before Christ, our wills can only have us do what is bad before God. After, we come to Christ, we now can do good before God but, because of the flesh, we still battle temptation and sin. However, when we die, we wi
Gods wants noone to parish meaning not just his chosen jews but also his gentile elect Romans 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand Ephesians 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love .
Get it?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 That is perty much adding to scripture, yes Israel is Gods elect talked about in romans 9 , but the gentiles who choose Jesus are His elect and every one who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved , you are twisting scripture, when you read in chapter 9 of romans it is talking about the Jews!!!!!
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
READ THE ENTIRE PASSAGE
Romans 10
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
( JEW OR GENTILE "EVERYONE")How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
IF I COULD MAKE YOU BORN AGAIN I WOULD BUT I CANT SO JUST FORGET IT, GOD BLESS
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 Just saying when God calls elwct he is talking about Isreal thats is where most calvinist get there doctrine , the elect is also the born again child of God which every one can be if they call on Jesus name,I am already born again john 3 3 and got my name in the lambs book of life , glory to God , God bless you!!!!
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
ohh i didnt know you were born again. when did Jesus save you?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 That scripture in romans 10 is so good romans 10:9-10 got saved in 1978 Glory to God, around the end of May , also filled with the Holy Spirit,It is marvelous when God saves us,
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
That is great to hear! I have a 9 year old daughter and many other loved ones who have not been saved and born again ,John 3:7 Marvel not that I [Jesus] said unto thee, Ye must be born again
John 1:13 They are reborn--not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God
I am very worried about them more so for my daughter of course if she is to God forbid die right now she will go to hell.how can I get the holy spirit in her and make her born again?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 Keep praying for her she will come in,you can't make a person saved born again, but you can stand on scriptures for your family I also will pray that your family will come in God Bless you!!!!!
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
does it say in scripture anywhere that you can pray for a person to get saved?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
There are scriptures in acts and other places. God wants your whole family to be saved
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
ohh wait you just called out to Jesus and he saved you?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
All men to be saved not just Jews but also Gentiles Romans 9:24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles. Faith is given to you by God you cant have faith unless god gives it to you( I didnt have faith until i was saved it is a gift given by God). Romans 10:14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
If you have been chosen/elected by God, he will make it known to you. A mark is set upon you, and written in your identity (deep in your soul). Just as a mother is certain she bore her son, the elected will know they have indeed been chosen. Jehovah does not keep secrets from his people. If you are chosen he will confirm it to you.
macaroni185 1 month ago
God choses sinners , and he saves sinners once you are saved by grace u are the elected of God if was God can choose you, then what makes you think he could choose everyone , he did choose the world John 3 16, he chose the world so the any one can be saved
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
Adam and Eve were subject to curse all mankind
Romans 8:20 against its (Human) will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope,(The eager Hope is sending his son Jesus Christ who was crucified on a tree to save us )
MrSlippin22 2 months ago
No free will/ Gods Will
Psalm 25:12 Who, then, is the man that fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way chosen for him. (God Chooses there way not them)
Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
MrSlippin22 2 months ago
@MrSlippin22 then how did adam and eve sin if they had no free will your not making sence
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
Adam and eve had free will to choose to eat of the tree or not to eat of the tree, they disobeyed God , they ate of the tree and cursed human kind to hell. now we dont have free will anymore God created everything so because they broke the one law our creator said not to break, we ae cursed "ate of the tree" . God sent us a savior for breaking this lawand his name is our lord and savior Jesus christ. now does that make sense?
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 yes there is still free will otherwise you wouldn't sin, here is a few verses from Gods word, romans 5 17 - end of the chapter, it is explaining about adam and eve and because they sin or because we sinned, (thou we are forgiven) we are in rightstanding with the father,also roman 3 21- the end talks about us being in rightstanding with God,
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
Yes we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.as you sated in Romans 5:17 and its true we are delivered from sin thru our lord Jesus as you stated in Romans 5 17 no human being has free will for salvation, in fact God even hides the truth from people he dont want saved. Matthew 13:11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. ill send you my testimony verifying that i had nothing to do with my salvation, God Bless
MrSlippin22 1 month ago
@MrSlippin22 well God does draw all men to Jesus when you lift Him (Jesus) up, when you call on the Lord you will be saved but first you need to call on Him, calvinism is a heresy, some don't even think they are saved , thou they called on Jesus and got saved, they go by feelings and not by faith ephesians 2 8-9 says by Grace are you saved through faith , it is a gift from, God, God's favor! He wishes none would perish all would come to Him! salvation He did for everyone even the whole world,
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
1 Corinthians 12:3 no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
2 Thessalonians 2:16 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth
MrSlippin22 2 months ago
I thought repent means to change ones mind and not to turn?
Onetruthrgv 4 months ago
@Onetruthrgv - If one has truly changed his mind -- He will turn. You can't change your mind and not turn, else you haven't changed your mind.
kerryscottmiller 4 months ago
@kerryscottmiller Well I would disagree, I know sexual immorality is wrong and I feel awful about such actions but Its difficult to get through it. By that standard nobody is truly repented sins man will still sin.
Onetruthrgv 4 months ago
@Onetruthrgv - I agree with you there., repentance is never perfect for anyone and no one will ever live free of all sin no matter how long you have been a Christian. This is a big topic and impossible to address in the space given here but Check out Luke 14.1-4, repentance is daily. If you want to talk about this in greater detail please go to christbiblechurch net
Have a good weekend.
Pastor Kerry
kerryscottmiller 4 months ago
@kerryscottmiller Thank you pastor I will look into it!
Onetruthrgv 4 months ago
@Onetruthrgv Oops, I meant to type Luke 17.1-4 not 14.1-4.
Grace and Peace.
kerryscottmiller 4 months ago
This is an interesting sermon..............Repent and believe...........that sounds like a choice...........if man has no free will, then how can he repent and believe on his own? And, then he says come to Christ............how can one come to Christ (according to Calvinism) unless God has called him? This is all so confusing! Either we can choose to come to Christ or we can't. Which is it? I believe in Christ and trust Him....but, I am a sinner and I make mistakes even fall. So, what's up
proverbs1824 4 months ago
Thats a very strange question that i have heard over the years. How did Paul know he was saved? how did Cornelious know he was saved? If God has saved you, you will know it. Its not a question of giving intellectual accent to what the Bible says. This person is a simpleton. Salvation, is of the Lord, its something He does, and if He is doing it, how in the world, can you not know. Lets stop kidding ourselves.(2 Cor 13:5)
torvasal1 5 months ago 2
@torvasal1 It is not a question but an act, we can believe all we want but if we do not live the word, manifest the word into flesh... then we are false followers.. Salvation is something You do.. you cant wait or the lord to save you... Let the lord see your actions.. Dont bow down to nations... do not indulge in modern ways of life.... Jesus rejected the Roman empire... so if he was here he would reject this so called Christian nation America...
5tecpatl 5 months ago
read 1john to learn thw truth about whether or not you are saved.
MrLchittum 5 months ago
@MrLchittum yes Amen:1 jonn 5:1 He that has the Son has life, and in John it says he that belives on Jesus in no wise he will cast him out ,romans 8 says the Spirit bears witness with our spirit, that we are children Of God, if then we are children we are heirs of God and Joint heirs with Jesus,
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 month ago
2013 is Mark of the Beast year
It is the Hexagram (Seal of Solomon, six pointed star)
Name of a man = Solomon
Number of its name = 666 talents of gold collected by Solomon in one year
Three pairs of triangles with their apexes touching. Each pair collectively represents the number 6, which qualifies the whole symbol as a graphical representation of 666
Solomon was the apostate king of israel that led judah into idolatry and worship of the gods of the mystery religions (satan)
Ravenous11yt 5 months ago
I think the best way to see if you are elect is if you can figure out revelation and see all the deceptions that satan has planning. if you kare pretty darn confident that you wont be deceived then you are probably elect. Israel is mystery babylon, if this surprises you then you probably aren't elect, or maybe I'm not lol
check out my channel and god bless :)
Ravenous11yt 5 months ago
my idea of his whole point is why are you sitting there asking yourself these questions? Get up and follow Jesus. you will find your answer along the way think about it. If someone starts smoking, well there not addicted right away but then they find themselves wanting more, but others will hit a cig and never touch it again. I realize that's a strange analogy but i hope it makes sense
TheAlane100 6 months ago
Why do we make salvation so complicated? We are confusing unbelievers at every corner. No wonder the Christian faith is constantly made fun of. No wonder why atheist are atheist. Sometimes, I want to just slap the Christian faith in the face. I have decided to stop labeling myself as a Christian due to the hypocrisy and confusion thereof. Most of my arguments are not only with unbelievers but even more so, with "Christians".
commonsense1plus1 6 months ago 2
the elect are Israelite and no other read your bible
TheSlugztgo 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 6 months ago
This is very good teaching coming from a Calvinist. Awesome explanation. Thanks for this post.
MsHannelore 8 months ago
heresy. He wrongly defines 'repentance', which is a godly sorrow...not a regret or a work. Repentance is of the heart.
gallantentry 8 months ago
@gallantentry He seems to be saying that to be saved, one must "Repent and Believe". I say that because he actually says exactly that, and he writes it too. I used to believe that the word repent was part of it until I searched the scriptures. I could find nothing other than faith in Christ as to salvation. Maybe you know of scriptures that I didn't find?
fxtrader92 6 months ago
@fxtrader92 Repentance of unbelief not a repentance of works. Otherwise Jesus died in vain. He did it all and we have this confirmed in His words of, "it is finished."
gallantentry 6 months ago
How do u 1st PROVE UR CONVERSION if ur unsaved?!
Repent & successfully stop sinning & be super holy & SINLESS (which is damn near impossible!!) in our GUILTLESS, HUMAN/HUMANE NATURE FIRST so God will finally get around to deciding if u r holy enuf to be transformed & saved from hell?!?!
As 4 belief - even Satan BELIEVES in God!! So do MOST pagans, etc. &"Christians"!
They r just STUCK IN THEIR HUMAN NATURE. If God wants change, HE NEEDS 2 change u!! U can NEVER change ur own nature!!
Sogwa 8 months ago
An unsaved person has "Other priorities" to think about and deal with b4 God decides if He likes ur effort/proof of conversion from ur NATURAL HUMAN NATURE b4 He may be willing to change u & save u?!?!
I HOPE no natural disasters or illness comes! & many folks have limited will power to even exercise or stop smoking!! How much harder & longer will it be for humans to CHANGE FROM THEIR NATURAL NATURE?!?!
ls this guy basically saying u must 1st become damn near sinless b4 u can get saved?!
Sogwa 8 months ago
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Sogwa 8 months ago
God predestined that ALL who choose to BELIEVE the Gospel will be saved, and that ALL who choose to reject it will be damned. He DID NOT predestine who will believe or reject!
Eromhsa1 8 months ago 2
@Eromhsa1 Can you prove your last statement Scripturally? Because I'm sure the Calvinists can prove you wrong Scripturally, so be read to give an answer (as 1 Peter 3:15 states). ;)
npotts89 8 months ago
@Eromhsa1
Oh? Satan & demons definitely BELIEVE in CHRIST & GOD!! R they saved? Is belief the ONLY thing or must u do like dude explained in the video, become sinless 1st B4 u even BEGIN to ask & try out God 4 salvation. As he said, "they got other things 2 think about 1st" which is interesting. What if there's a accident, natural disaster, or illness? Do they still have 2 become PERFECT 1st?!
Would like ANY1 who understand/agree w/ u 1st proving ur conversion from sin to answer this
Sogwa 8 months ago
How does a Hindu, a Muslim, a Buddist gets to be elected ?or prove their conversion?
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@changeishere2008 well, just as an atheist or agnostic does. Believing upon the Lord Jesus as Savior and God.
npotts89 8 months ago
@LaneCh how god like it if i go have sex with a women (my wife) and have three kids at once and i look at them into there eyes and say well i like this one and that one but the third one i dont like him he will never call me father no matter how much he crys out to me i will kill him with no remorse and no chance for him to get to know me. gods stupid election is like the same thing i said above
1986Lonelyguy 9 months ago
@1986Lonelyguy
I will expose Calvinisim's lie and twisted theology everyday. People need to wake up.
T.U.L.I.P doctrine is deadly it devides the body of Christ. into elect and non- elect.
Jesus paid with His blood for the whole world not for some few elect. we have a choice to receive the gift of salvation.
Man has free will.
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@changeishere2008 This seems noble of you trying to do this, honestly. I have no hidden motives, I promise as a brother in Christ. But I would like to ask you though, can you disprove TULIP scripturally? Can you prove free-will Scripturally? What did Jesus pay for on the Cross and in His death? If for our sins...then we do not need to "accept" Him, correct? because the sin of unbelief would have been paid for on the Cross. But it is not us that needs to accept Him, but He needs to accept us. ;)
npotts89 8 months ago
@1986Lonelyguy you are comparing your ways to God's ways....yet you state God's stupid. :/ probably not the smartest thing to say, I'm not trying to insult you, but giving you a warning. If God is real and His election is something that happens...that's gonna be something brought up on the day of judgment I bet. :/
npotts89 8 months ago
Mark Keiler
The message and hope of salvation is not complicated Man sinned- God wanted a family He sent His Only begotten Son on earth to pay for that sin. 2000 years later I heard this message and beleived it. I wanted to know Jesus and follow Him. Why are you twisting the Gospel and preaching falsehood ?
changeishere2008 9 months ago
people please stop buying this Lie. It's not of the bible it's sick. ask the Holy Spirit to show you the truth. This doctrine is called Calvinism / 5 point Spergon/ T.U.L.I.P google these key words and find out if these type of teaching lines up with the word of God.
continued....
changeishere2008 9 months ago
Calvinism: God made us sinners and then sacrificed himself to himself to create a loophole in a rule that he created to save only some of us from a situation that he put all of us in. Don't even try to twist it. If God is sovereign and controls everything, predestines our lives, then he is responsible for this entire situation.
backwoodsninja 9 months ago
Do unsaved sinners really ask if they are elected by Christ.?Depraved natures look for common ground.? A depraved sinner can turn from sin.? They can repent without Christ.? Than why would they need Christ? They would already have ability for change.This guy believes election but says all men have ability to repent without Christ.! Repent and come to Christ, this what he said Depraved sinners cannot repent from a body of sin Only with God's Spirit can a sinner repent and get a regenerate mind
polopowers1 11 months ago
ooh, wow this clears up so many misconceptions I have had about God's Election.
JerBro1 11 months ago
more bullshit,just the babblings of another badly evolved human.
megamus3 11 months ago
How Do I Know If I'm One of God's Elect - Well you should have a superior sense of self importance, be a religious selfrightious nutter helps so does a highly inflated ego.
But as for me Romans ch10 - v9:10 is all I need
God bless
Loonypics 1 year ago
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For by grace ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is THE GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
CrackerJayherber 1 year ago
I am a Christian but I wrestle with some of these doctrines we are supposed to believe. One thing is the matter of belief. How exactly does believing something save me from anything? How does me saying, "Yes, I believe that is true," give me salvation?
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja First, I would say that this isn't merely about belief in the way we have come know belief. It is faith. It is acting on something you believe to be true in so much that you would give your very life for it. I look at relationships to understand this principle. Marriage is built on this ideal. Your marriage is saved by the belief that you have in your spouse. If you believe they are doing bad things, then you will act accordingly and the trust will be broken..
razputin34 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja BTW, love the name. If that trust is broken and you turn away from your spouse, then your relationship is doomed. See, I look at salvation in the light of relationships. I will probably be in a minority here, but I view this as God seeking those who will trust Him. This is a grand relationship. I want to be a part of Christ and to known Him and the only way I can do that is to trust Him. If you love your wife or husband; the things you will do to show them love. Mere..
razputin34 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja It is far more than being "saved" because you believe in something. I will probably get shouted down here because I definitely take a somewhat unorthodox view of God. When I listen to a video like the one above, I shake my head. I would still ask a person that looks at the Bible through the glasses of Calvin; how do you truly know you are one of the elect? God picks and God saves who He wills. You may think you are, but really you simply misguided in your own depraved mind.
razputin34 1 year ago
@razputin34 I think sometimes we just don't read the Bible in its complete narrative. You have people yelling about Romans 8 and 9, completely separating out any context for the passages they quote ad nauseam. I wish people would look at the whole of the Bible and examine what directive God gave Adam and Eve. They chose to listen to another voice and God gave them what they wanted. Why did God spare Noah and start over with him? FAITH. Noah TRUSTED and was saved. God didn't make Noah..
razputin34 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja through all the trials that you have experienced in your life; through them all, do you find that despite all the reasons to not believe, do you find in your soul the ability to say and respond as Jeremiah did, who through all of his own sorrows, suffering and trials, was still able to say:
HermitintheRain 11 months ago
@backwoodsninja Remembering mine affliction and my misery, the wormwood and the gall. My soul hath them still in remembrance, and is humbled in me. This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. Lamentations 3:19-24
HermitintheRain 11 months ago
@backwoodsninja If you find in your own soul the presence of the words similar to what Jeremiah stated in this passage, it is only by the work of the Holy Spirit in your soul who has caused your soul to be regenerated unto believing on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You see my friend: the trials we face are for our own. It is God who is keeping us (Psalm 121). The trials we go through is God's mercy to us to inform us that he is indeed keeping us through the valley of the shadow of death.
HermitintheRain 11 months ago
@backwoodsninja we know that he is keeping us, when through it all, we find, as already stated, that great is his faithfulness unto us, as his mercies are renewed to us every morning by the presence of faith still found within our souls. Man-made faith will crumble at the slightest of trials. But God-given faith will endure the greatest of trials. Faith itself is not saving anyone. It is God who is saving.
HermitintheRain 11 months ago
@backwoodsninja God is saving those he is saving through faith. As 1 Peter 1:5 reveals: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. According to God's purpose and according to his sovereignty, God has determined to save his people through faith. It isn't faith by itself that is saving anyone, but God who is doing the saving; and that through faith.
HermitintheRain 11 months ago
@backwoodsninja my friend, where it comes to 'these doctrines' that you wrestle with: let me encourage you to meditate upon and learn to keep close to your heart: Psalm 131. Trusting that as the Lord wills, and as you grow in the knowledge of his grace, that he will give unto you that wisdom and understanding as is necessary and determined by the Lord himself. Let your heart be always grounded and established in the Lord himself in all things as you humbly wait upon the Lord for all your needs.
HermitintheRain 11 months ago
@HermitintheRain Yes, well, election, in the Calvinist view is possibly the most horrifying story ever told. God, who ordained everything, including the Fall of Man, in His great mercy chooses to save certain people and condemn others. So, basically, he is saving us from a situation that he put us in in the first place. We are His ant farm, and he's a big kid with a magnifying glass. How can Calvinists even preach this stuff and expect anyone to love God?
backwoodsninja 11 months ago
@backwoodsninja God knew from before He made the universe that people would turn against Him. He hasn't turned against us. God knows that ALL of humanity will not truly repent and follow Him, but He also knows that some will (and He knows who will! and who won't. He knows everything!) We should love Him because of the God He is. We should love Him because He made us and He loved us first. We should love Him because He sacrificed His Son to save us from Hell! That's enough for me.
blkimes 10 months ago
@backwoodsninja God's power is unlimited, he can doe as he pleases, there's nothing we can do about it. You're suppossed to love and accept Him for who he is. If you say my God is too loving to predestine someone to hell for his glory then you've made your own God and that is idolotry and that will not be toloerated. He is sovereign and just. For the ones he chose to save they should be grateful and love the lord that much more.
blindergrinder 10 months ago
@blindergrinder Does he really need to predestine someone to hell in order to glorify himself? Really? I think if there is a God, he'd be better than that.
backwoodsninja 10 months ago
@backwoodsninja Well it's in the bible. Like i said his power is unlimited and he can do as he pleases. Just think about it for a second, election explains why some believe and others don't and if you did believe in God it sounds like you wouldn't believe in the God of the bible it sounds like you'd make your own god that suits your beliefs.
blindergrinder 10 months ago
@blindergrinder Well, in that case, I hope that God puts something in my mind that causes me to believe the necessary things that save me from going to hell just by believing them. Should I also close my eyes to science and believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old?
backwoodsninja 10 months ago
@backwoodsninja yeah i hope he does too, but lets pretend you do have a choice. Do you really believe you're an accident? A Chemical reaction? If you truly believed in what you do then you must agree with Hitler, Stalin and Mao. You should just go ahead and kill anyone that pisses you off because who is going to judge you. If all we're going to do is die then we should just kill ourselves. We have no meaning no purpose it won't matter how long we are here because we will just die. So depressing.
blindergrinder 10 months ago
@blindergrinder Now that just doesn't make any sense at all. If I went around murdering people, I'd end up dead or in jail, and rightly so. If all we're going to do is die, we should kill ourselves? Why? What sense does that make? Guess what, we are going to die. Why would I want that to happen any sooner than it has to?
backwoodsninja 10 months ago
@backwoodsninja It does make sense if you have nothing to believe in. For some reason you see the value in life and you don't believe but if there's nothing to believe in no life after death who is to stop us from living for our selfish gains? The law? Just kill yourself if you get caught you're gonna dtie anyway. I think deep down inside you're not sure of your beliefs. Let go of your pride and think about what i said. Maybe God has elected you and will use the Holy Spirit to draw you to Him
blindergrinder 10 months ago
@blindergrinder I appreciate the guidance. As far as living for selfish gains, let's think about what kind of society we want to live in. I don't want to die. I realize I will die someday, and that's kind of a depressing thought, but why shouldn't I want to make the best of my life while it lasts?
backwoodsninja 9 months ago
@backwoodsninja That's right man you should. I think God later in your life will reveal himself to you. You seem to be open to the idea of it. Let's not think of the kind of society we men want to live in. We are wretched things. Let's think of the society Christ wants us to live in. If we all had something to look forward to when we die, not just eternal life but rewards to recieve then just think about all the good would come out of serving and helping others instead of ourselves.
blindergrinder 9 months ago
@blindergrinder
why would you say you are wretched brother? would you say that to a child ? you are wretched? We have to watch the words we use. Children could be hearing and affected. I am saved by grace. Jesus has paid my sins in full. He is seated at the right hind of God. when I sin knowingly or unknowingly He advocates for me. The child that He redeemed. God does not want me to walk around with my head down saying things like I am wretched He would rather hear me say I am blessed,
changeishere2008 9 months ago
@changeishere2008 i am forgiven, i deserve no grace, i sin everyday and i try my best to repent. We are all wretched we are the ones that should've died no that cross, but no Jesus paid for that., and i don't walk with my head down i rejoice knowing that one day my sins will not only be forgiven but forgotten as well.
blindergrinder 9 months ago
@changeishere2008 Martin Luther used a Latin phrase, simul justus et peccado, translating "simultaneously just and sinner." That we can, and are wretched, but yet saved and declared righteous by a holy God. This may seem strange, but Scriptures state it. "While we were sinners Christ died for us." Not, "we were sinners and became righteous then Christ's death was applied to us." I'm sure we agree, even in Romans 7 Paul says there is nothing good within him it was not in past tense but in present
npotts89 8 months ago
This video elevates our own personal subjective self perceptions & thus elevates us relative to God. The proper thing for a Christian to do is to rely on the objective manifestations of Gods grace. He raised up His Church & gave us the signs of His sacraments to give us objective assurance.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
This is slightly off in thinking and philosophy. God's elect are chosen by God to have a special purpose in the last days. Those who choose to be with God through Jesus Christ are saved. There is a huge difference. People are taking the whole "elect'' deal too lightly and throwing the title around. The elect have received a direct message from God and know who they are and only they know who they are.
djtommybravo 1 year ago
BTW, I don't konw about you but where I live we got nailed with a Snowpocalypse and I have to go dig myself out again for the 3rd time. 18+ inches here in Northern Michigan.....why oh why didn't I move to Florida....wait a minute....I must have been predestined to live in Michigan. This really stinks!
kingseller1 1 year ago
I like this. Election isn't the message for Non Christians...they cannot claim it. But when they repent they can shout, "Thank you God for Choosing me before the foundation of the World!"
gamhazell 1 year ago
Sorry, please read the second paragraph first [...We are not just elected etc...] and then the first one [...They will live on...] otherwise it's not going to make sense.
kelkiewyn 1 year ago
They will live on the New Earth after the renovation of the earth by fire [which is what they are “saved” from.]Redeemed Believers [the Bride of Christ] will reign with Christ from heaven over the inhabitants of the earth. So, unless you hate God and reject His rule totally, you will live on the New Earth in the perfect conditions of the Garden of Eden. I am sure that everyone who has ever lived and/or died will in some or other way be given a chance to choose for or against God’s rule.
kelkiewyn 1 year ago
We are not just elected... we are elected for a purpose. The purpose in this case is to become the Bride of Christ. That is not to say that all those who do not form part of the Bride of Christ go to hell! There are three kinds of people: Unbelievers, Saved Believers and Redeemed Believers. Saved Believers are those who believe in God, go to church, pray etc. but who are not born-again.
kelkiewyn 1 year ago
@kelkiewyn,
With all do respect, where does the Bible say there is a difference between SAVED and REDEEMED? I have never heard this in my whole life. You're either saved=redeemed or not! Again, with all do respect, this is NOT in the Bible and it's way into the heresy land. Please, rethink this.
flotopo 1 year ago
@flotopo You are right. I was made aware of the [fact] that there is a difference between the meanings of the words "Saved" and "Redeemed". I looked it up in the dictionary and came to the conclusion that this fits in nicely with the fact that the Bible says there's going to be a New Heaven and a New Earth. It is my own theory. Sorry!
kelkiewyn 1 year ago
The natural mind cannot comprehend the things of God.. if it makes you feel better to believe you have qualified for salvation because you chose Him , then feel better..as for me I will believe what is written .. I was dead in my trespasses and sins, helpless, blinded , held captive my soul (mind, emotions and will ) was in bondage , I was totally deprived of any "freedom" Romans 9:16 " it doesn't depend on the man who wills or the man who runs but on God who has mercy
edantila 1 year ago
@edantila Read the rest of Romans 9, it is about the Jews and how God has, is and will deal with them. Romans 10: 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I respond to the faith that God has given me through his word and trust in the sacrifice Christ made for me. God is not some kind of cosmic soul rapist who forces me against my will to be regenerated.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 So, if faith comes by hearing. Explain to us why God allows some people to hear the Gospel while others don't. In other words, is it because God can't get the Gospel to all men or choose not to get it to all men. And if it's "free-will" then why does God deny some men the chance to exercise their "free-will" choice by keeping the Gospel away from them. Acts 16:6. Doesn't look to me that God gives men equal opportunity. Do you know why?
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Read Romans 1 and you will have the answer to your question. Nut shell is Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened... Then the sins of the fathers were visited on the third and fourth generations and so on and so forth. Now it is the Christians job to preach the gospel to every creature.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Because HE is Sovereign! For "free-will" to be exist all men must have equal opportunity. If no equal opportunity, then all men do not have "free-will". Free-will is an arrogant Doctrine because it must conceded the fact that some men's wills are less equal than others! In Acts, the apostles were forbidden by God not to go into Asia. Do you think that all men in Asia stayed alive until the Gospel arrived? Obviously not. What about North America? Japan? What about them?
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane God is sovereign but he does not exercise his sovereignty at the expense of our volition. You don't know what was already going on in Paul's mind, you don't have a clue what God was already doing in his heart prior to the Damascus Rd. We get the account of what happened but not the intimate detalis. Arrogancy is to think like you do that you are somehow better than the lost. You somehow merit salvation where others are excluded from it. You have a white supremacist religion.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Do you really believe that between 33ad and 70ad there was nobody that God refused to bring the Gospel to? Do you think the people in South America at the time were hearing it? Why not? Don't they get the same opportunity you did to hear the Gospel and make a "free-will" decision? One has to overlook a whole lot of reality to believe in everyone having a "free-will"
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If the sovereignty of God is what saves us then why isn't everyone saved, since it is God's will that ALL should come to repentance?
kingseller1 1 year ago
This is the problem with those who espouse decision-ism, they claim that the sufficiency of the Sacrifice (Christ's) is dependent on man's will. However, according to Scripture, the sufficiency was always God's. Man's role was only to present a sacrifice and the decision of whether or not it atoned for sin was God's. Now, they claim God has changed and has given man the authority to chose whether or not Christ is sufficient. How is the acceptance of Christ's sacrifice man's and not God's now?
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@Mr...I am not sure where you are getting that idea from, but it is not from those of us who are not Calvinists. God accepted the sacrifice of Jesus, God the Son, and in order for that sacrifice to count for man, man must accept Christ as Savior. Just as the Israelites had to put the blood on their doors during the first passover. The sacrifice was made but the man had to put it on his door for it to count for him. The way you put it seems like everyone is saved regardless of their beliefs.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 That is the worse exegesis I have read for the Passover. You are not sure what I am getting at because you obviously have no insight to the Old Covenant sacrificial system. You interpret "command" as "suggestion". A command from God, simply put, means "Do this or I will destroy you!" Your will isn't exactly "free" if you have "fear" motivating you to do something. You'll find out on your deathbed how "free" that will is.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
This dude is a pompus jackwagon. Anyone can be 'elect' and whether or not you are elect depends on if you choose to accept Jesus. You cannot repent of your sins, that is preposterous. You can repent of your beliefs about God, and Christ. Man is not predestined to salvation, but is saved according to the foreknowledge of God.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 This is an interesting perspective. Every time I here anyone rail against Sovereign Grace and the Doctrine of Election or Predestination, they tell us what it isn't. Enlighten us and tell us what it is. Also, tell us where it is in the Scriptures that God handed the decision over to man as to whether or not a sacrifice was acceptable to man. It seems pretty clear that it has always been God's but you believe different. Please, explain.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Sure no problem. John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. If you believe in Jesus, that he is indeed God, that he died for our sins, being the only acceptable sacrifice to God the Father, and you believe that he rose again from the dead, trusting in him you have eternal life. If you reject the deity of Christ, the sacrificial death, or the physical resurrection ur lost.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 John 3:36 is descriptive and not a command. So, you do have a problem. Christ is pointing out the benefits of those who already believe as oppose to those who don't. Read it again. Is that really the best you can come up with? You still can't find any Scriptures emphasizing man's choice. Let me save you the trouble. The New Testament always emphasizes God's choice. Seriously, get a concordance and put it to the test. Look up choose, choice, chosen. Yield to the Word.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane And how does one arrive at a belief? You are quite pompus and arrogant, and I think if you are relying on some kind of supernatural soul rapist to choose you because of some kind of sovreign grace you are the one who is going to be quite shocked on your deathbed.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Really, "soul rapist" you mean like when Saul was on the road to Damascus to persecute Christians and Christ appeared to him. Knocked Saul on his unwilling butt. Blinded him, sent him to the house of his enemy and then changed his name to Paul? Yeah, that's the Salvation I believe in. One can only believe in Christ if Christ chooses to reveal Himself to them. Until then, they abide in ignorance under the wrath of God.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Calvinism is nothing but a poorly thought out philosophy. Do you really think that God waited 1500 years to reveal his design to the world...and then when he did he revealed it to a Frenchman??? Come on use your head, the plan of Salvation is simple and available to all man, all who believe what God has said in the Bible. Jesus is God, he lived on this earth a perfect life and gave his life as a sacrifice acceptable to God, and rose again proving that he is God.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 I think that anyone who has really studied the history of the matter would not make such a statement. For instance, do you realize that Clement (the Apostolic one) believed that the elect were a specific number? And if you were using your head, you'd realize that the Gospel has not been offered to all men. I have even met some of the descendants of those who never heard the Gospel. That's a reality you can't reconcile.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Romans 1 reconciles it quite nicely. And Clement of Alexandria was a heretic plain and simple. Just like his protege Origen. I don't care about the history, because I have studied it. Mostly dudes, like you, who twist the scripture and practice eisogesis.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 I'm still trying to understand what the argument is here...help me understand. It's pretty simple if we take it to scripture and what's perfectly clear.It will separate the division.
harleycraig1 1 year ago
@MrNickKane All who trust that are saved all who reject that are lost. Plain and simple.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "All who trust that are saved all who reject that are lost. Plain and simple."
There isn't a Calvinist who would argue against that. But here is the point the Reformers were making. That even the credit for your decision to accept goes to God and the you have done nothing, and nothing means just that...nothing, to merit your salvation. There is no "quid pro quo" in Salvation. If you'd stop and think about it, what your a claiming is that Calvinist do not believe they make...
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 a decision. Well, we do. What we defend is that the Glory in all things goes to God. Go and read Augustine, Luther and Calvin carefully. Go and study the Reformation a little closer and you'll understand what provoked them to do so. They felt the Catholic Church was exalting man's will and authority to a point of heresy. And no offense but, historically, most denominations that advocate "free-will" are usually oppressive. And oppression is what the Reformation is all about.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Right, exactly. Luther and Calvin were trying to reform a corrupt system full of lost men. Kudos to them for that, but they were both quite flawed and mostly wrong. Where they did get it right was by grace through faith... but that is about it for both of them. Calvin came up with a philosophy to explain salvation. He was still a statist and favored killing those who disagreed with him, just like he learned from the mackerl snappers.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 In all the time I have been on here. Not once were those who were willing to condemn me were willing to administer the Gospel to me. That shows me that those, such as yourself, are only here to extol yourselves. Your just as guilty a being motivated by the same hate you accuse others of. But it's all about to change for you guys.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Yeah whatever. I don't look to history to get my theology. I haven't condemened anyone, and I have given the gospel to many on youtube and in real life. I have presented the gospel to you in our discussion as well. It is up to you to accept or reject it. (Why do you go to a SBC church, they are not calvinist at all, at least the ones I know.) You shouldn't be so quick to dole out judgment and then try to play innocent. You have a weak unbiblical argument.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 No, one looks at history to see how God works providentially through his creation. Actually, the SBC roots are Calvinistic. Robert Selph wrote a wonderful book on the history of the SBC and the Doctrine of Election. Both Paul Washer and David Platt are Reformed and SBC. More and more members of the SBC are going back to their roots as well.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane That is why the SBC is losing influence and members in droves.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "You have a weak unbiblical argument."
Sticks and stones may break my bones but Christ will never fail me! I have to ask, does anyone other than you buy into your rhetoric? And remember, judgment is a whole different animal than condemnation. I never stated anyone was lost. I guess "free-will" exempts you from the fact that the Scriptures only gives God the authority to curse and condemn.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Do you know my relatives I was speaking of? Have you heard their testimony? Well then I guess you are talking out of school once again. If someone says they are trusting in baptism, confirmation and church membership to get to heaven do you acknowledge their salvation?
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 No, I may not know them but then again, only Christ really knows them. But I believe it's awful risky to grab the gavel out of God's hand and bang it around in condemnation of others or even speculate it if they at least attend a Church that isn't cult-ish. My family is Mormon and I haven't spoken to them in years but I am not eager to send anyone to destruction. Wow! I can't believe that you and I would have agreed at one point.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrOh I think we agree on a great many things, you are just wrong headed in your soteriology,but that is ok, everyone has the free will to be wrong. I think in other circumstances (real life) we could have a good debate that isn't broken up by 500 character segments and be able to depart friends. Your LDS relatives go to a church that teaches that Jesus is not God. The bible calls those people antichrists, they preach another gospel they are anathema (LDS) so I think its pretty safe.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Since I haven't spoken to my relatives, I wouldn't want to risk a condemnation. If God could do what He has for me, he could do it for them. But here is the question, How much credit do you give God for your decision to chose Christ. No, this is not a trick question and, no, I am not trying to bait you. I ask everyone this question. And if you say "all". What is your definition of "all".
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane 1 of at least 2 Ok one more time. I give God all the credit for my salvation. God presented the plan of salvation through a preacher. I heard it I believed it, because God gave me the faith to believe. Now you are saying Amen, however here is the difference. Faith is believing what God said, God provided the evidence and I agreed with God that the evidence is true and faithful and I accepted Christ's offer to provide me with salvation. I did not do anything, I just believed.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 So, if you give God all the credit for your salvation. Then you are admitting that He gave you the belief and faith as well. Or, for you, is belief and faith separate from salvation?
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 I know you'll claim you answered that. And you did. However, the first have of your response says that God gave me the faith to believe but then you said "here is the difference" and then made it sound as if belief was of your own doing.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 And what "evidence" are you speaking of? If faith is the substance of things unseen....then what "evidence" were you given?
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane I will answer you tomorrow, cant talk on the phone and do this at the same time. I don't have those skills!
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Well, at least we know you are not a 16 year-old girl.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Right, because I would have those skills if I was because everything a 16 yr old girl writes is incoherant, and misspelled! But if I get too much older I might start wishing I was 16 again.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Amen!
harleycraig1 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Just as if you were to tell me your name is MrNickKane, you have presented the evidence and I believe you. Or if I were to tell you I live in Michigan, in the lower penninsula 50 miles east of Lake Michigan, and 50 miles south of Traverse City. Now it is up to you to believe me or not. So do you have faith? Who gave you the faith?
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Not to be sarcastic, but that sounds a little too much like Salvation through apologetics.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane I am not sure what you mean by that. Is salvation not an argument? Is not God making a case for your salvation throughout the Bible? Is not man making a case for doing things his own way throughout the Bible and history? So therefore couldn't it be said that all salvation is done through apologetics? No not for you because you think it is your destiny to be saved. That is the difference between us. You were destined to be saved, and I accepted God's offer to be saved.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "I am not sure what you mean by that. Is salvation not an argument?"
Salvation is not an argument. The Gospel is presented if men respond great, if not, we dust our feet off and move on.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "Is not God making a case for your salvation throughout the Bible?"
God doesn't make "cases" he dictates, decrees and executes those decrees. God makes a case for His Son throughout the Bible. He obviously shows that throughout the Old Testament, man cannot, through his "will" exercise the ability to obtain salvation through obedience and ritual, so, he sent His son to do what will could willfully obtain.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "Is not man making a case for doing things his own way throughout the Bible and history?"
No, man is failing miserable at living up to the standards that God dictated. The Old Testament testifies to the fact that man, under his own ability, could never live up to the standards God establishes. That is why in the New Covenant, God writes His laws upon our hearts and causes us to walk in His statutes. We have not input in this. It's all God or we would be back where we started.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane If God dictates and decrees why do you and I still sin? God said that we are to be Holy as he is Holy, I am not sin free are you? So if God can force us to be saved, then he can force us not to sin. And since God doesn't want us to sin and we do sin, how can you say we have no free will?
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1
Silly response. You know that Paul addresses that in Romans 7. You remember: 21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind...
C'mon, you know this.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane So then we do have free will. Or are you going to say that the flesh has limited omnipotence? The flesh forces us to sin and God forces us to be good? Or do we choose to sin and choose to reject God's will for us? Seriously I don't have time for this today, but go ahead and answer I will catch up with you tomorrow or Friday.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "So then we do have free will."
Before Christ, our wills have been infected by sin. Every element of us have and our nature is therefore sinful. We cannot exercise any decision apart from our will. When we come to Christ, we are free in Him but because we are in the flesh and the world, we still wrestle with sin and experience dying. However, we have the moral agency, the ability to decide right from wrong. However, sometimes the desire of the flesh can cause us to stumble. Rom 7.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Semantics....NO really I am going now I will catch up with you down the road, I do find this argument rather stimulating.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "Semantics"
I wish it were that simple. But there is a difference. And it's not an argument. I prefer it to be a discussion. I think the more we will discuss this, the more you'll understand what the reformed position truly is. The reason there is so much dissension over this is because we concentrate on single words or fragments of the position. That and the fact that some of those who hold this position do a bad job of articulating it.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane The difference is that you are trying to philosophize the mechanics of salvation. Calvinism takes 14 1000+ page volumes to explain what Jesus said simply in John 3:16. I disagree with most of what I have read from the likes of Jonathan Edwards, John Calvin, and what I have heard from Paul Washer and John Piper. IMO Washer is a pompus blowhard who thinks he is the only one on the earth who is saved. Piper is a little better.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 John 3:16 is simple? Really? Then explain to me why Nicodemus approached Christ and what Christ said in John 3:1-15. Go ahead. I would LOVE to read this. BTW- applying your same logic, it could be said that God wasted too many years, manpower and ink to write the Bible when all he needed to write was John 3:16. That's poor logic. I let Washer and Piper handle themselves. As far a pompous, there are no "buts" when they give God ALL the credit. LOL
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Washer speaks the truth and doesn't tickle ears. Doesn't mean he's 100% correct nor is anyone. But he's very solid. Also check out John MacArthur
harleycraig1 1 year ago
@harleycraig1 Yeah, I don't always agree with some of the ways Washer articulates his points at times and I am not quite sure I agree with his eschatology (because I am not sure exactly what it is) but I LOVE his passion and his uncompromising spirit when it comes to much of what he espouses. CJ Mahaney is another one worth listening to. As is David Platt.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane So then after we are saved we have free will? Come on now. Either we have free will and exercise it prior to salvation and after, or we do not have free will before or after we are saved. And don't say that moral agency and free will are not the same thing. Even with moral agency the agent must choose to act.
kingseller1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 I never said that we have "free-will" after we are saved, I said that we are freed from the bondage of sin, that if we be in Christ, only then, are we free-indeed. In other words, before Christ, our will is in bondage to the wrath of God. No matter what, you cannot use your free-will to free you from that wrath. Only the death of Christ could provide that means. And once again, you are acting as if the Calvinist does not believe in moral decisions. However, here's the difference.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Before Christ, you cannot make ONE not ONE correct or righteous decision that would put you in good standing with God. Why? Because you mind is corrupted by sin. It's dead in trespasses and sin. You cannot even seek after God. However, after God RENEWS your mind, you can desire to do what is righteous, you can seek after God and it's free from the law of sin and death. What I cannot understand is how you separate the "mind" from the "will", if the mind needs renewing Rom 12:2...
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 Then you decision making process needs renewing. This obviously implies that your mind was somehow damaged or restricted prior to needing a RENEWING. It's interesting to note that nearly every free-willie will admit to many limitations to the will but then claim its...free. But, yet, it's not from the limitations. In other words, it's okay that sin has limited it but you'll be d@mned before you'll believe that God limits it. Amazing. Truly amazing.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 A choice to act isn't the argument. We don't choose whether Christ's death was sufficient for our salvation. That's God's alone. You never read the words "offer" and "choice" in the same paragraph anywhere in the New Testament. But we do see calling and response taught. Sheep responds to the Shepard. Not because they become sheep but because they already are sheep. Christ conveyed this idea later in John 10:25-30. He doesn't look at them at tell them they don't believe because...
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@MrNickKane Good word
harleycraig1 1 year ago
@kingseller1 they refuse to believe. He tells them they don't believe because they are not already sheep. As he says, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me." Later, He tells the disciples "You did not choose me, but I chose you" but you would tell the disciples that they made the decision. If you'd go back and read, Christ never asks someone to follow or offers someone the chance, He ALWAYS commands them to follow Him. "Come, follow me." What you lack are clear cut...
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 examples of your formula of Salvation. I have put the opportunity out there from someone to show me where Christ or Paul emphasizes man's choice using the "free-will" Gospel scheme and no one person can give me an example. They also refuse to offer a definition of Predestination and election. I know why, because once you study the meanings of those words, you cannot get around that their usage in Scripture that solely emphasizes God's choice. But it's apparently no that...
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 to God to emphasize any example in the New Testament that emphasizes man's decision in Salvation.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 "how can you say we have no free will?"
What you fail to understand is that the Reformer believes that man has a free moral agency. The reason they do not prefer to claim a "free-will" is do to the fact that they believe the "will" along with the rest of the person has been affected by sin. Just as Paul outlines in Romans 7. He wants to do good but finds that he can't always do so. But here is the difference. Before we come to Christ, we, by nature are enemies of God.
MrNickKane 1 year ago
@kingseller1 However, after we come to Christ, we, by nature, are now friends of God. Before Christ, our wills can only have us do what is bad before God. After, we come to Christ, we now can do good before God but, because of the flesh, we still battle temptation and sin. However, when we die, we wi