Pascals Wager Atheists Agree with God. must watch

[SpecialEdAllstar]

What you utterly fail to grasp is : What if there is a god, but its not your god? There are literally thousands of religions that all make the exact same claims of exclusivity as your religion does. The ten commandments were ripped off from Hamurabi's code - just like the rest of the old testament was ripped off from other cults,faiths,and pagan religions that predated it by hundreds of years. The bible is just bronze age fairy tales and nonsense.

[wimahlers]

I have heard all excuses. Such as, but not limited to:

"We are under attack by militant atheists".

"The religion of atheism".

"Atheist have no morals, worship the devil, rape, steal, etc.".

"If morals do not come from god, where are they comming from"

In contrast, I think it is rather pathetic to believe that you cannot be moral without a all seeing revengefull god constantly watching you to prevent you doing something immoral. In fact, such an argument makes me superior!

[alphaenemy]

Umm, did slave owners go to hell or what? I'm not sure about how to go about rationalizing their final judgment. What about animal abusers?

[alphaenemy]

Love the pathetic tags these brilliant folk put on their videos

"must watch"

Yeah, this helped. Really brilliant stuff. Now go learn to read.

[sandbar3000]

Man, that is good preaching!!! I make this a favorite.

[mbouw21]

Pascals wager is assinine. It assumes christianity or no god. What if you die and islam is true.

[bigfanofdisneyUSA]

you're very smart...

[ReservoirdogEC]

Lawls

[jxlloyd]

Nice job on the video. God bless. Lloyd

[nezahualcoyotl85]

theres no such thing as an evolutionist!

atheism exist on a spectrum,god isent moral, how many judges punish people for a finite crime? how is murder worst then theft? how is killing some one for anuthers crimes just?

[wimahlers]

You don't understand Pascal's Wager.

There are thousands of gods. Most of them are narcistic bullying sadistic monsters...like the christian god.

Choosing anyone of these thousands of gods makes the other unchosen bullying gods jealous and revengefull.

I choose none. And if a god truly exists and if I ever meet this bully than I expect this god to drop on its knees and sincerly ask forgiveness for being such a self centered prick. Since I am humane there is a possibility I will forgive.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

LOL...I have a lingering inclination that you will be eating these words.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85,

.

"LOL...I have a lingering inclination that you will be eating these words."

.

From this remark I conclude that you actually confirm that at least your god is such a self centered narcistic prick. In that case I can't wait to meet him/her/it so I can confront him/her/it with his/hers/its rather humanly weakness attitude, to understand the error of his/hers/its attitude, and sincerely apologize to me for having been such a self centered narcistic prick.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

Aren't you yourself being a quote "narcissistic prick" by believing that you can judge what is narcissistic, and to believe that you deserve an apology for what you, in your narcissistic nature, have deemed unjust?

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85,

.

"Aren't you yourself being a quote "narcissistic prick" by believing that you can judge what is narcissistic, and to believe that you deserve an apology for what you, in your narcissistic nature, have deemed unjust?"

.

Contrary to that biblical god I do not demand anybody to worship me nor do I threaten with eternal torture if you don't. If I do than you indeed deserve an apology. So, how does this make me a "narcistic prick"? Just because I obseve the bible god is? Explain.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

I didn't say you were a narcissistic prick. That would be mean. However, I don't know of too many narcissistic pricks who show themselves in human form, allow their creations to spit, beat, and mock them, and then to proportedly die for them and their sins. That would be a form of some kind of reverse hypocrisy. Apparently we don't understand God at all.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85

I was created by my parents. And I respect them.

There is right and wrong but there is no such thing as "sin".

I have the zeus forsaken right to mock everything. And I use that right.

I don't believe in gods. So there is nothing to understand about something you don't believe in.

However, I do understand religious people. Like Bush and his holy war. Like islam that the holy war enshrined in their scriptures. It disgusts me.

By the way, my parents are practicing catholics.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

Jesus, nor any of the disciples waged or encouraged any kind of violent struggle against anyone. They were jailed, mocked, and beaten numerous times and never raised a finger in violence, with the exception of the sword/ear thing on the mount of olives which Jesus officially rebuked. I agree that violence and war are disgusting, but they can't be blamed on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85 I don't believe in the historical jesus. And there is good evidence that the historical jesus never existed and no evidence that he did. And even the apostles are doubtful. That is, the apostles writings are written after the assumed dead of jesus. Some of them decades later. And the names of the apostles are made up. And the teachings of jesus are not flawless. Our moral is different now. I even dare to say better. Better, because of equal rights between men and women and homosexuals.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

It seems you have your mind made up. The Gospel is reserved for those who believe and have faith in the word of God, not for those who think they know better.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85

It seems you have your mind made up. The Gospel is reserved for those who believe blindly without proof and therefore think they know better.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

Well, other than biblical prophecy coming to fulfillment, e.g., (Israel existing, an Eastern Asian population with the capacity to yield a 200 million man army, progression toward a one world economy/currecy, increased violence/wars, and significant increase in natural disasters.) This could all just be one big coincidence... Those mean ole Christians just want to control your life. And no, I didn't believe the world was going to end May 21 2011, so don't lump me in that category.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85,

.

"This could all just be one big coincidence.."

,

No it isn't!

It is interpreting vague allegoric verses that could be interpreted to mean anything to mean what you like it to mean.

Would you like me to cite the scientific miracles in the Koran? Or the scientific miracles in the bible? Or use Nostradamus for that matter? Or, on a different note, would you like to use the dead beaten kalam cosmological argument? Choose!

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

Actually I would like you to cite all.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

Also, how is a 200 million man army from the East a vague allegoric verse? The East is the only place is the world that could possibly produce such a vast army, and surprisingly Islam controls much of this region.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85,

.

"Also, how is a 200 million man army from the East a vague allegoric verse?"

.

You got that completely in reverse. But that is understandable when you are trained in interpreting vague texts after the facts. Especially muslims are masters in the technique of hindsight interpretation. But you make a great effort to match up with them. Again, it is interpretation after the facts. No doubt you find some verse somewhere in the bible that predicted islam as well. I am not impressed.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

The problem with that theory is, At the time the Bible was written i.e., about A.D. 60 - 100, so more than 1900 years ago, the world's total human population was around 300 million. The idea of a 200 million man army originating from one largely unknown portion of the world was literally unfathomably. I'm sure the Bible could predict the death of a third of the world's population, and if it came to pass and you were lucky enough to survive, you would still say, "there is no God."

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85 Really? You really claim that they could not pop up big numbers 2000 years ago? Do you actually know what a brahma day is? See: tinyurl(dot)com/7qskp

I am so much not impressed with your hindsight interpretation to still try to force a meaning upon a biblical text that you have not even showed in context. So I will do this for you. See: Revelation, chapter 9, verse 16 (use: tinyurl(dot)com/5a3zj)

I am still so much not impressed. So I am now waiting for the copout excuse: John 12:40.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

I assumed you read the Bible, so therefore providing an exact verse would be unecessary. It's not an excuse as much as it is the propensity of biblical prophecys coming to fruition. You can bury your head in the sand as much as you like, and rationalize this way and that way, but watch the signs of time. John 12:40 is in reference to the hard hearted, faithless generation in which we our entombed currently. Nothing has changed in 2000 years. People will always be the same.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85,

.

"You can bury your head ... and rationalize this way and that way, but watch the signs of time. "

.

This has been said countless times in the past 2000 centuries. Is it not also in the bible that the apostles said that jesus would return in their lifetime?

So, excuse me for being rational and still not being impressed by your "signs of time". Come to think of it, why are you not a muslim? Have you not read, or heard of, the scientific miracles in the koran? 

[wimahlers]

@wimahlers Correction:

2000 centuries must of course be 20 centuries or 2000 years.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

If you want you can private message me. This searching through comments to respond is getting cumbersome, that is unless your goal is merely to prove me wrong in front of everyone. That would fit your narcissistic personality. hahaha (1/2 joke) :)

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85

.

I have a scientific background. As such I prefer an open discussion. And indeed, youtube is not a medium to discuss. I usually invite people to a forum of their likings. A forum is the proper formal way to discuss.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

It's not that they couldn't pop up big numbers. It's all about population distribution. No where else in the world based on current population distributions could a 200 million man army be yielded. Not North America, South America, Europe, or Africa. Only Asia, which is where the verse indicates the army to come from. Also, the verse correlates with the birth of the modern state of Israel (the fig tree) in 1948, so this army would have to come about during the existance of Israel.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85

.

". It's all about population distribution."

.

No! It is all about choosing a random biblical text and a random, usually artificial, number and than somehow corrolate them and claim that there is a relation.

I challenge you to randamly pick any verse in the bible and I can corrolate it to something ... and something else, etc.

I don't even know were you got your 200 million from but I can do that too! 150 million. So, done. Proves nothing. Try the muslim version.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85 By the way...

Demanding to be worshipped and threaten with eternal torture if you aren't is(!) a classical example of being "a self-centered narcistic prick".

But since I don't believe in any god or gods I feel neither threatened nor do I waste the precious time I have in this universe, as a conscious sentient being, on performing time wasting rituals on ancient superstition. And I would appreciate it if you respect my position. But unlike some christian brethren I don't demand it.

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

I'm not demanding you worship God, I only confronted you with your own narcissistic attitude toward God and it turned into a big debate. Rituals? Well, I guess since your parents are catholic and religious, you will generalize that all who believe in Jesus as acting like catholics. This is not the case, but I understand, that people have varying perceptions on what religion is. However, if you truly want to know the unadulterated teachings of Christ, I'd read the new testament.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85

You: I only confronted you with your own narcissistic attitude toward God and it turned into a big debate.

Me: No you didn't! You abused a word - narcistic - and gave it a different meaning.

You: you will generalize that all who believe in Jesus as acting like catholics.

Me: You are generalizing. Why don't you first ask which rituals I refer to?

You: read the new testament.

Me: Why? Why do some people always assume that I have not read enough? Why don't you ask first?

[THEJJR85]

@wimahlers

Anyone who claims that they are going to give God a stern "talking to" when they die, exemplifies the very essence of narcissism. Whether, you want to accept it or not, that's how you are perceived when you say things like that. I'm not judging you, that's simply what narcissism is, an unhealthy overinflated view of one's self and ones worth

If you had read the new testament, you would know the Jesus is the antithesis to the thesis that God is a self centered narcissistic prick.

[wimahlers]

@THEJJR85,

.

"Anyone who claims that they are going to give God a stern "talking to" when they die, exemplifies the very essence of narcissism."

.

As I said and you just proved, you completely changed the meaning of the word "narcism", "narcissism", "narcissist", or any deriviate thereof. Because you seriously have to explain how confronting an entity that demands either slavery or eternal torture. and me demanding an excuse for such behavior, definies me as a narcissist.

[Muhammadan]

Ok I had way too many comments so I've deleted them all and I'll make a video responce instead.

[izbo10]

this is a HUGE jump to a conclusion. All pascals wager does is attempts to prove a creator. Poorly at that. There are almost infinite possibilities other than the bible. look at all the other religions or think about this one. There is an almighty pink elephant living on the 8th planet in a galaxy 4000 light years away that brings you there after death and the only thing he asks to party with him is that you don't believe hes not an orange rhino and you know which planet hes on.

[izbo10]

Well guess what you can imagine him on billions of planets he could be any color and if your wrong you could got to be mauled by a red lion for eternity. This is all possible but im surely not betting on it.

[Muhammadan]

Why'd you make this comment as a reply to me? I agree with what you are saying. I think this argument is completly flawed.

I don't even think this argument does try to prove a creator. Like the video says it just says if you live a good christian life you have nothing to lose, which I don't agree with because of what you said about being infinite possibilities other than the Bible.

I know this isn't about sides, but I'm on yours

; ).

[izbo10]

i more than likely acidentally hit reply than post a new text comment post wasn't directed at you but just at the video itself

[al147316]

that is why you go to the right God

[athywren]

So... if I say that I believe in god, he'll let me into heaven?

Despite the fact that I don't believe, and cannot see proof that I do not see in order to trick myself into believing?

Will god not see through the lie?

[GiltEdgeMedia]

Good presentation. Thank you for sharing this.

[freethinkerbell]

No it is a very bad argument, what if your god is the wrong one, maybe you should worship allah or wotan

[Hooya2]

Tell me,do you believe that eternal torture is an appropriate punishment for any finite crimes? I mean, I can't imagine how that is not cruel and unusual punishment.

"The Pharisees understood what that meant, it meant you're going to hell..."

Jews don't believe in hell.

[Hooya2]

If a man who's hiding Jews in his basement during the Holocaust is asked by a Nazi 'do you have Jews in your basement?' and the man says no, he's a liar, but I'm not going to condemn him. If someone stole something from Hitler, I'd be totally cool with that. Adultery is fine, as long as the husband/wife knows and doesn't mind.

You missed some of the 10Cs, like 'keep the Sabbath day holy'. No atheist respects that 'law'.

[joker4433]

mark 2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

do u guys not realize u are just like the pharisees who always told this to Jesus. God commands all to repent and believe the Gospel so there if u dont the second coming will be terrifying for all of you. but if u repent and believe and continue to repent and believe unto the Son of God Christ Jesus then u are saved unto forever Life John 3:16

[Hooya2]

"do u guys not realize u are just like the pharisees who always told this to Jesus."

In what way is your comment a coherent response to mine? Jesus can choose to break the Sabbath, so what?  That doesn't change the fact that there are verses of the law which atheists dismiss as being useless or even immoral.

"God commands all to repent..."

No, he doesn't; a book demands that, and you assume God wrote it, but there's no way to prove that, or even offer strong evidence for it.

[joker4433]

lol. seriously..u live miserable right now u hate so much hate in ur heart i know this not cuz im a prophet i know that i too used to be like that and the bible is a testimony against all men saying men are evil. look of paul washer sermon jam and watch the one with the guy with glasses and grinning his teeth

[Hooya2]

"lol. seriously..u live miserable right now..."

And that's really the only way theists can defend their ridiculous claims, isn't it? By saying atheists are miserable. They certainly can't defend them with reason or logic.

[Hooya2]

First, you argue a false dichotomy; you assume only two possibilities, either your God exists or no God exists. What if God exists, but he's NOT insane? What if he values free inquiry over faith, so creationists go to hell while people who accept the evidence go to heaven? What if he values kindness and compassion over faith, so most people go to heaven?

Once you look at the infinite range of possible Gods, Pascal's Wager collapses.

[passionate4Christ]

May God open their eyez that they may with it & here with their ears. The evil one has blind folded them. But the only way for us to know the truth. Is to taste & see for ourselves. How many atheist have tried to follow the principles of the Bible to get closer to God. It's just like science... u don't just believe what others tell u. it must be tasted & approved by not just one but a cluster of people.. Why live in darkness dark atheist brothers..Taste & know what's false & what true.

shalom!

[Marduk379]

Wrong, wrong, wrong and dead wrong!

There are countless of outcomes if either the belief in no afterlife or the belief in the christian idea of afterlife is false. You people tend to forget all other religions and worldviews out there.

Besides, it's pretty hard to change ones mind just like that into believing in something you know is illogical to believe. You will know deep inside it's rubbish.

Does anyone think anymore?

[joker4433]

lol well u are right but mostly other relegions do bad they are man made triditions that man can follow. Gods law u cannot follow unless u have Jesus and God has saved u from a corrupt MASS.

Only Jesus can save you and change u

praise God

[Marduk379]

joker4433

"mostly other relegions do bad they are man made"

I think christianity is man made too. Christians do bad things like everyone else, some of them even organize hate groups like God-hate-fags and Ku Klux Klan.

"Only Jesus can save you"

I see that in many religions too, practically everyone of them claim that only they can save you from the corrupted masses, the suffering in this life, damnation and so on.

I see christianity as a drop in the sea of religions.

[joker4433]

Marduk, truly i can say to u . u can ask ANY true christian yes we sin but not as much as we used to and when we do it crushes our heart and the feeling will not go away until u repent. God even says in the new covenant he will make a people and they will be his people and he will be there God and he will write the law of God on there hearts. tell me any other religion have a revelation?? even tho christianity aint a relegion its a family :)

[Marduk379]

"the feeling will not go away until you repent"

We who don't believe in any gods repent in a different way, like asking forgivness from the ones we have hurt or deal with our feelings.

"tell me any other religion have a revelation?"

What about all of them. Buddhism, islam, hindusim, religions of ancient time and so on.

"christianity aint a relegion its a family :)"

If it teaches that one or more gods exist, followed by some rules or morals then it's a religion according to me.

[joker4433]

marduk 1 john tells us christians that we will get this reaction all the time so it has happen before but truly if it aint LOVE that christians write others out of what is it?? say we dont preach at all then in the end u would mourn like all men over nations at the coming of the son of God and u will take the full force of the wrath of God (Hell) and according to the bible every knee will bend whether u bend from the grace given to u or ur kneecaps will be broken by the one who rules the nation!

[Marduk379]

"if it aint LOVE that christians write others out of what is it?"

It can certainly be love that you feel, but I don't think it comes from your god.

"say that we don't preach at all then in the end u would mourn lika all men..."

I think that is a most unlikely senario. I'm just as afraid of Harmagedon as I am of Ragnarök, which is not afraid at all.

Are you afraid that the Fenris Wolf is going to eat you at the end of times? If not, then you know how I feel about your god's wrath.

[joker4433]

nations*

john 5: 28-30

28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

[TheFallibleFiend]

Evolution doesn't equate to atheism. If Pascal were alive today, he would almost certainly accept evolution.

The argument is silly, regardless of Pascal's intent. Even if a god exists, we don't know what properties he has. He might well punish those who believe incorrectly.

[JasmineLowe]

GOOD JOB:)

[imrational]

There are 1,000's of proposed gods, gods not yet "found", and uncounted ones not proposed or who might not have made themselves aware to humanity.

The odds are in favor of you choosing the WRONG god.

If the true god is a jealous one, then you risk punishment for worshipping the wrong one, while I can at least say I didn't worship ANY god due to rational reasons, i.e. lack of a testable theory and supporting evidence.

So, if we are playing a "wager", then you should place your bet on atheism.

[jopickjo]

There is only one God. He sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins. He rose from the dead, and forgives our sins if we receive him as Lord. I was an athiest at one time. Not anymore. Sounds foolish, but we can have the science arguement and it really makes no difference in my belief... because there is another realm of spiritual existence and the relationship with God. If you want proof read the Bible and prohecies and look at how they are being fullfilled even in our own time!

[BigAtheist]

what does evolution have to do with pascal's wager. You do realize that there are a lot of Christians and other theists that accept evolution.

Actually there are 3 choices, what if the atheist is right, you are right , or some other theist is right.

And if the atheist is right and there is no god , no heaven then your life is all you got. in which case, the penalty for getting it wrong is that you have wasted your life prostrate to some imaginary being.

[Edella]

You seem to be conflating "evolutionist" with atheist. There are, of course, "evolutionists" who believe in an afterlife.

[evirus]

incorrect, evolution says nothing about the existence of god, neither for or against. nor does it discuss any aspects of an after life other than, by implication, the inability to reproduce with living beings. also the end consequences of being wrong doesn't determine truth, if chemistry is right billions of people have died from it, does that make chemistry wrong? no, any intelligent person wouldn't be swayed by such spiritual extortion as the idea of hell.

[jopickjo]

You never see evolution presented with good science... just a lot of made up stories with no foundation or proof. I'm an engineer, with 23 patents. I've studied phsyics, chemistry, thermal-dynamics, electrical field therory, etc. I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord with all of my heart. So does many of my engineer friends. I was an athiest at one time.. but when I tried to believe evolution.. the science just didn't support it. Knowing God and seeing answer to prayers is an amazing thing.

[evirus]

evolution is a field of biology, not physics or chemistry nor engineering, so to use your knowledge in those fields serves as an argument from unqualified authority, it would be like someone telling you that you designed a hose wrong, and when asked how, they responded "well I'm a cook"

again evolution and atheism aren't the same thing, there are several theistic evolutionists.

and your claims about evolution's evidence are vague, please give specific examples.

[jopickjo]

Biological systems are full of electrical/chemical feedback control systems. As an engineer I studied those subjects rigorously.  Example: laws of thermal dynamics... such as the law of entrapy. " all things tend to go from an ordered state to a random state" which contradicts idea of evolution. Example: Fossil record grossly contradicts the millions of year time lines claimed by evolutionists. Many examples are contained in creation science texts published over many decades.

[evirus]

thermodynamics specifically talks about the amount of usable energy within a closed system decreasing over time. now evolution is not even a system, its a result of mutations and selective forces, it is the creature who makes it's own form based on the chemical sequence of DNA which is clumsy in it's reproduction(mutations). no creatures, though they expend energy to grow and reproduce aren't closed systems. (...)

[evirus]

(...) recall the energy pyramid, producers at the bottom have the most energy, tertiary consumers at the top have the least amount of energy(due to 90% of the energy being used for growth and reproduction), each level gets energy by consuming creatures of a lower level (primary consumers consume producers). but even this isn't a closed system. the closest thing to a thermodynamically closed system is the solar system itself.

[evirus]

the sun releases energy as it fuses atoms, but the atoms it can fuse is based on weight, after a certain atomic weight the gravity is insufficient to fuse anything heavier. a small portion of that released energy enters earth, a small portion of that is used in photosynthetic organisms(producers) and then you get to that pyramid I mentioned. evolution obeys the laws of thermodynamics because we see the amount of energy within a closed system decreasing.

[jopickjo]

I'm not gonna pretend to know any science thouroghly. We accurately predict behavior of electric and magnetic fields with Maxwells equations .. and yet we can't actually describe what these force fields actually are! One delima...no matter whether you believe in evolution or God...we exist..and whatever we are made of came to exist.. but if there was nothing.. how can something come to exist out of nothing? I don't think either of us can explain that with our science!

[evirus]

you don't need to wholly believe in evolution, or wholly believe in god, you can accept both.

so far as the existence of reality it self, either the universe is eternal(in which case the big bang is simply a state in its existence and not actually a point of creation) or it is finite, in which case there needs to be an explanation for its existence, but to automatically conclude its god isn't logical. out side the universe there might exist the ability for something to come from nothing.

[jopickjo]

I agree you can put things in some higher state of order in localized areas.. it requires creatively directed energy to do so. Not randomly directed energy. For example, we do it when we build a car or a computer. They don't just build themselves out of randomness.

[evirus]

chance is not all there is, the only part of evolution that is chance is the mutation, after that mutation everything follows a predictable pattern through chemistry and natural selection(which is the exact opposite of randomness). look up emergence, evolution is but one example of complex systems resulting from random outcomes filtered by non random constraints.

[Edella]

"I agree you can put things in some higher state of order in localized areas.. it requires creatively directed energy to do so."

Are snowflakes more ordered than water vapor? Do you think they require "creatively directed energy" to form?

[indignant99]

You're full of garbage. Blathering about what you don't know. Get lost, you inveterate liar.

[indignant99]

Thermal-dynamics? No such word. You are a liar. And you're certainly no kind of engineer who I'd trust with ANY engineering task. Flake off!