#4) Project ForkenSwift electric car conversion: it's legal!

[onegaisti]

So, what're the total pros and cons?

[jeepers2655]

don`t electric motors get hot?.....what cools them?

[kaduisaui]

1:14 sophisticated instrumentation added including a multimeter, an ampere meter and a piece of paper on the dash. Sweet! Just kidding...

This is so cool, I want to do the same thing to every car in the World.

[andrew0901280]

what is its top speed and 0 to 60 time if will do 60. also im looking at building somthing like this with a simular car and i was wondering how much it cost total excluding the cost of the car it self thanks

[andrew0901280]

so whats the cost of this project not including the car itself

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Check the web site: forkenswift (.) com. There's a full cost breakdown posted there.

[ccoasterdesigner]

How did you get the emergency disconnect attached to the clutch?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Attached the clutch cable to a small chain, and connected that to half of the Anderson type cable connector. Press the clutch, cable pulls the Anderson connector apart.

[camboy1132]

if you stop buying gas from the gas station they wont be making no more taxes off sales tax off you. Well I ride the bus so I don't pay no taxes. Your car is a bit noisy & the rpm takes long to kick in, think but I think what you are trying to do is a good thing. you are positive person. a guy from Portland or Seattle that builds his own electric car in his garage , this kinda person is sick & tired of gas & waiting for car company to change there behaviour, & going of business,

[CapitanoGUC]

how difficult would it be to convert an land-rover defender - or is this fore wheel just to heavy to drive on electricity ??? - can someone please tell me ???

[monstercameron]

suv=weight electric motor=high torque add them together and you get nothing, what a waste of a comment lol

[CapitanoGUC]

???????????

[ferraridriver16]

well, it depends. Conversions really aren't that hard. Just very time-consuming. I plan on converting my Mazda MX-5 to EV, and i figure it'll take like 6 months to do. You also have to make sure your car has a manual transmission. Automatic transmission conversions have been done, but it's much more difficult. Since SUVs are heavy as crap to begin with, I'd recommend a 144 volt system, but you probably won't get further than 30 miles per charge, and you won't have a very high top speed.

[okiefarmer1]

just gat a electric car to day with the gov. tax $4500 and oklahoma tax of 50% and the dealer 10% it was free i even have some left over for the tag.

[Floridaboy7777]

great job!!!!! id reccomend custom Lithium batteries when these go bad, and possibluy converting a simular car with a go cart motor!

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

I'd gladly go for a lithium pack! If you pay for them :) Kidding aside, for my needs, lead is OK in this car. I only really need a 15-20 km range, and I'm getting 30 km in the summer from this pack.

[beancube2008]

People should push "clunkers to e-plug-ins conversion" for the future industry. Gov't would have more job creation in recycling and environment industry. This creates competition, training, inspection and research development among auto parts vendors as well. The impact for the entire auto industry will be at least ten folds. People should build ready to ship qualified demo package, refurnish and pricing for major models that are still on the road as well. They can be exported as well.

[3089280288]

Damm right man! That's exactly what I'm thinking! Why wait for a new small car that's going to cost 20-30K when you can convert a road ready car that will get the same perfomance. Plus, you pick the car you want and can still find parts.

Then again, the Goverment won't get any fuel tax since you don't need to buy gas/diesel.

If I get real money that's exactly what I would do!

[pjwlk]

Nice job on the car but a pretty much useless video. No stats, nothing, WTF? How about something useful like an 80% technical view and 20% driving?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Nice comment... pretty much useless manners you've got there! :-D

Check the "more info" area on this page for a link to the web site. More details there than you can shake a stick at.

[Jay12341235]

that wasn't a lack of matters, that was a comment and he was pretty much right

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Go to the web site if you want technical details.

[Gillhoolee]

Hi Guys, Hey Larry Flint called & he wants his 'intro' music back, what ever that means? (lol) I getting ready to rip the heart out of something, not sure what yet. I was surprised that the GEO is 1700 lbs and the Tracker is like 700 lbs more. If I do a Tracker that means the Mother in law will have to walk which is fine with me! lol

All the best, Great vids!

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Thanks! Good luck with your project.

[CrackHour125]

Sweeeeeet

[arcrainbow]

Hi,

Awesome effort. I 'm following all news to EVs since summer. I like that I saw some one did it in Ontario, CA,

1) how much do you pay for insurance now?

2) Do you sell the Motors? what is the cost you mentioned about $600 Canadian. is it battery included :) ?

3) Can I have a visit of the car? I live in Richmond hill Ontario.

I believe gas price, global warming, current recession are all connected and these are great opportunities to change the world we live.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

1) Same as the gas version of this car

2) Sold the gasoline motor and one of the extra drive motors from the forklift

3) Sure. The car is in Brockville. Visit the web site to get my e-mail address and send me a note.

[aussiefirestorm]

Forken brilliant ,well done you are an insparation!

[alexandercraig]

Really nice job, well done! Im looking at doing a similar kinda thing. Where is the best place to pick up the running gear?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

We got the electric drive components from a forklift repair shop. Motor controller is used from eBay.

[sixmagpies]

It is only YOU chaps who will, eventually, manage to shame the cynical establishment ('OIL Co', GMC.etc ..and 'their' Government.) into offering appropriate products at a sensible cost ..... a technology which YOU have proven is quite possible as it's already here. Keep fighting the good fight.

"Evil prevails when good men do nothing". Well done ... gentlemen.

[Trelamenos88]

How many range it have?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

25-30 km, on a "new" set of used batteries installed last Hallowe'en. On a brand new set, it would probably be good for 40-60 km.

[paulsavage33]

how fast does it go ?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Roughly 70 km/h flat out, after a long run-up. 50 km/h is a more practical "working" top speed. Fast enough for sub/urban driving in a small, quiet city.

[tomatitotarifa]

Thanks for your reply. There are two tracks, one at the beguining and one later; which one are you refering to? I am interested in the second one. Thanks again and great job on your car!

[klekampcd]

If you don't use the clutch anymore then how are you shifting, since it's a manual transmission?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

See video #5

[tomatitotarifa]

great! can you please let me know the music in the soundtrack??

Thanks!

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

It's from a video introducing the GM Impact (EV1) electric car. Search for "imagine the impact" on this site and you'll probably find it.

[blabbershnitz]

wats the top speed?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

About 70 km/h flat out, with a long road. In reality, about 50-55 km/h.  Which is fine for the urban area where the car is used.

[Trelamenos88]

How many batteries you put and how many miles you drove with full charged batteries?

[SpeedMetal4635]

great work, then can i make the conversion to my car by myself?

[JMJ68]

How much to build me one thanks

[rockwizclown]

whaat do they mean overdue? is it not legal anymore?

[KippTheKidd]

Overdue as in it took longer to make than expected.

[exsane]

Is that how fast it can only go? I notice alot of people are cutting you off or atleast tailgating you.

[EcoModderDOTcom]

You notice what?

[tghooker]

ya know to save the economy someone needs to figure out a way to use eletric power for 18wheelers and jets but i'm getting ahead of meself

[KippTheKidd]

Diesel locomotives are a strong hybrid; they use an all-electric drivetrain with diesel power generators.

I'm currently building an electric ultralight airplane -- it's no jet, but it's a start!

[ztcamper]

Planes? Heh dood, get real. Best thing that's going to happen to planes is bio fuels. Which is about to be tested in NZ.

[ArmaanGalaxy]

it is in canada not america

[tabamoura]

last time I checked Canada was located in North America. no?

[Dilekz]

Electrical car conversion is legal here in EUROPE and why?

-You change the weight.. and the place of the weight changing safety.

-You change the engine.. ( you cannot do that ).

-etc etc.

America has a bit more freedom in that kind..

[notogas]

Can you give us a list of the necessary components to duplicate your work, and if it no trouble list of places where we can buy them. Thanks. great

[1MtnBoy]

Awesome job, pretty quiet : )

if I cant find an new electric under $30K, Im doing this to my Spectra, maybe not GM parts but who cares. no more gas for this little car oh yeah !

[382hp]

Nevermind... i watched the 5th video.... durr

[382hp]

Do you actually shift through gears in an EV like with a gas motor? It seems like you could get that car going pretty fast. I never understood why EV cars don't use multiple gears. Also can you explain the clutch pedal emergency disconnect function?

[cant7think7clearly]

Gidday Darin how's the EV going?

Hey, what video editor did you use for the picture-in-picture part?

Cheers!

Gav

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Hey Gav -

It's going well. 1000+ electric km on the car so far. The rolling science experiment will continue as spring weather arrives (more powerful controller... new charger... battery monitoring 'system'...)

The best editor I've tried is from Adobe, but it's just a 30 day trial thing (too rich for my blood). A free, powerful, but very hard to use editor (which did that vid-in-vid clip) is 'Zwei Stein editor 3.01' from thugsatbay dot com. Good luck if you try it!

Darin

[Mostlyfun]

Gathering lots of info The only thing about EVs that I have aproblem with is the lack roar but the truck has spoked wheels and I have lots of old hockey cards so problem solved Thanks for putting this on here You have opened my eyes. This is going to be one clean hotrod.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

I can tell you this: one of the things that will cause more "OH WOW!" reactions than anything else, if you do an EV rod, will be its *lack* of noise. My experience has been that people think it's incredibly cool to watch a car silently moving around under power at low speeds. Good luck!

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Mostlyfun - sounds like a neat project! Do a search here at YouTube for "White Zombie electric car" for some EV burnouts.

[Mostlyfun]

Thank you guys I am curently in the middle of a hot rod project Its a 1937 GMC pickup the body and suspesion are done and I was about to rebuild and drop in a 1965 413 out of a boat I had budgeted 15000 for the motor rebuild and transmision. Are there motors out there that will give me tire spining power? cuz thats what hot rods is all about I don't need much range as it will be just a toy.

[adric22]

Very good videos.. I need to get some more videos taken and edited up myself. I just can't seem to find the time since I'm too busy working on my EV! :-)

[bxlxix69]

i have a 1992 Buick Roadmaster, 15mpg any ideas?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

How about a 40 mpg Honda Civic? :)

Oh, you mean to make it into an EV?

Big vehicles generally make for poor EVs. Do a Google search for EV Album and you can browse hundreds (1000's) of electric cars, many of which have been converted by their owners. Most of the converted cars are compact to mid size - better efficiency.

[hgallegos915]

WOW this is something BIG! how long does the charge last? you should convert these for a living!

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

The batteries are used & worn, so it only goes about 25 km (in warm weather) on a charge. About half that in the dark depths of winter. You can buy conversions - Google the EV Trading Post, or Blue EV, or Grass Roots EV. Lots of options.

[SpydernD]

great project. You mentioned that the batteries you are using are old and worn out. Have you tried to "pulse" them? I got the procedure off of Ebay for $5. The guy says he developed the technology for NASA. Haven't tried it yet myself.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Thanks.

Nope, haven't tried any pulse charging. The people I know who know a lot about batteries than I do generally don't think pulse charging is any more effective than just cycling the battery.

I know some people swear by pulse type charging, but I've yet to see any references to properly controlled tests on the approach.

[SpydernD]

His method is to "surge" the battery with a power source 2-3 times larger than the battery voltage for a short period of time, ie. 5-10 seconds. It is supposed to break up the sulfur deposits on the plates of the battery. Works with lead acid and Ni-Cad.

[Rb26R34]

How do you shift with the clutch being the killswitch?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

There's actually no clutch in the transmission - the motor is directly coupled to the input shaft. Shifting is done by simply moving the gear lever.

[Rb26R34]

wouldn't that grind the gearbox to bits?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

It does take a bit of practice, but clutchless (and grind-less) shifting can be done in many vehicles - combustion or electric. From my experience, it's easier in the electric.

Have a look at the video - at 5:45 I upshift, and the only unusual noise you hear is the bird chirping in the tree I'm driving past.

I downshift @ 5:54 and upshift again @ 6:10.

[grandcarriage]

I have a citroen that I haven't pulled the tranny out of to fix the clutch, but I'm too eager to drive it, so I shift the same way, by matching revs. It takes practice, but once you get used to it, you can feel where it "wants" to shift. Very very cool job. Bravo!

[somedudepspcrazy]

Nice, whats acceleration like?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

You need to put quotes around thw word "acceleration". :)

Some math, to put things in perspective: with 48 volts and a 225 amp limited golf cart controller, we have about 12 horsepower available at peak draw. :)

My 8 year old nephew can literally outrun the car (yes, on foot) for about 50 feet in a drag race.

[somedudepspcrazy]

Wouldnt it be 15 HP? (48*225/700)

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

You're right - bad math. I shouldn't have used the word "peak draw" with "12 hp".

Strictly speaking, it's a 14.5 hp nominal peak system (746 watts/hp).

In reality, it's less: 225A is the peak rating of the controller, but it will only deliver that amount of current for a few seconds, when it's cool, before ramping down to protect itself.

Plus there are efficiency losses in the controller & motor. The end result is the system rarely if ever actually makes 14.5 hp.

[al1500321]

Amazing project!! Just a few questions. How do the brakes and steering work? Do the HVAC system still work, A/C, heat? Can you still change gears or just use first gear? Thanks.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Steering works the same as before the conversion - it's manual. Brakes were upgraded from a 4-cylinder version of the car - bigger discs and calipers, so even though they're "manual" as well, they're OK.

No heat, or AC though! I pre-warm the car with a hair dryer if it's really cold out. :P

[arcooke]

Great work. I have a question about the forklift motors. I'm sure those were designed for pure torque.. did you make any modifications to the motors themselves to try to get more speed out of the car?

Also, do you plan on upgrading this car or building a brand new one or anything?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

FYI, the motor we used in the car was one of the forklift's hydraulic pump motors. We had to modify the brush timing, and reverse the field connections so it turned in the right direction for the transmission's input shaft.

We might upgrade the controller, and maybe add another couple of batteries for slightly more top speed. No plans to make another car though.

[g0fvt]

Well done, fuel prices over here in the UK are much higher than the US or Canada, ours is about $2 US per litre. Lead Acid is still a feasible battery and bizarrely I believe they are greener than some of the alternatives, lead acid batteries are extremely recyclable. Once again well done.

[shaawy]

well done, but how fast does it go on the highway?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

It doesn't go fast enough to get on the highway :).

Top speed seen to date is about 65 km/h. And that was with a very long run up.

[pearljameric]

wonder if you used those Optima batt. if you would get further?

[testacorsa150]

I know your car is beer budget, and my hat of for that, but do you know any light batteries, that hold a lot of power, and dont cost a fortune?

I am a petrolhead, but your idea is just perfect for a new project for me, so I want to lean stuff - and quickly too :-)

Nice job guys, and thanks for posting these amazing videos - they where very informative, interesting, and funny as h**l.

Best regards

Brian.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Light, *cheap* batteries with lots of energy density and good cycle life don't exist yet. *Expensive* ones do, though! (Too expensive for the majority of people with EV conversions.)

[moviking]

Well done, can you post some speed and distance figures? Swift Huh ?

S imple

W hile

I nventive

F orklift

T oy

Cool Name.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

moviking: nice acronym! Funny.

Top speed: about 50-60 km/h

Range: 20-25 km max in warm weather, 15-20 in cold (note: this is on worn out batteries).

[moviking]

Glad tou like, thanks for the info, you and Gav got the right idea.

[christophermn]

Are you going to add an electric heater?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

No plans to. Although yesterday I put a 1200w hair dryer in the car (plugged in to AC for 20 minutes) to prewarm the interior before I drove. :)

I just dress warmly and try not to breathe on the windows.

[DeLorean4]

I would have never thought of that. Where's your intro sound clip from? The Saturn EV-1 opening? Do you have a URL?

Keep up the good work, I'd like to re-create your project one day, hopefully with a Lada Samara :D There's a scrap metal facility right in front of my school that occasionally has old batteries, electric wheelchairs and other such equipment piled up in front of the building... I'll have to look into that.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Opening sound is from a GM vid: "Imagine the Impact" (prototype of the EV1). Do a YouTube search on that title and you'll find it. It's worth watching actually.

Hey a Samara NEV would be cool. Go for it!

[DeLorean4]

Thank you so much for the link. I'll keep you posted once my project takes off, for now I've started building an electric bicycle :D

[DeLorean4]

That reminds me... last year when we got -30C weather in early February the house would be too cold in the morning, so instead of cranking up the thermostat (which would take to long and isn't ecologically friendly) I picked up my toaster, placed it horizontally on the table so that the slots would face me and put all four of them to the darkest setting. Instant heat! Looking back, I feel so much like MacGyver.

[melsoftm]

Congrats!! Have you invested in a trickle charge solar panel? Just wondering if that would help you any, when at work you can have it sitting in the lot charging itself =P

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

As a matter of fact... we have been using a 12v panel to trickle the accessory battery because we haven't installed the DC-DC converter yet.

[rogertangodotcom]

Please update your website, I am hungry for more data and information! Also the video looks great, I am excited for your project and am thinking of doing something similar here in the US of $3 a gal gas A! (and rising!)

Many thanks for sharing your work!

Andrew

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Hi Andrew. Sorry about the lame web site. And sorry to say I'm going to be too busy for a while to update it.

But if you're looking for more technical data, look up the car's entry at the EV Album: evalbum DOT com. (Do a search for ForkenSwift and you'll find it.)

[DeLorean4]

3$ a gallon being about 70-80 cents per litre while here in Canada it's about 1.10$ even with our stronger dollar. God I love refueling in the States :D

[golf911]

what is its top speed?

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Theoretically, or practically?

In real world driving, let's say between 50-60 km/h.

Theoretically? Maybe 70-80 km/h.

Keep in mind that @ 48v, with 200A of current (the highest I've gotten it - the controller has a 225A limit), the max power available is 9600 watts, or about 12.8 hp.

And since the current only peaks briefly when starting from a stop and with each upshift, the *average* power is much less than that, probably just over half, so let's say 7 hp.

Seven horsepower. Woo!

[golf911]

how many batteries are you using, 3?. if you used 9 (3 sets in parallel and then the three sets in series) you could get longer distances out of it. my vw diesel only has 52hp, there is no need for cars with over 100hp.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Using 8 x 6v for 48v.

We're actually not looking for more range. 20-25 km is fine for daily errands in a small city that's only about 8 km wide.

Also, more batteries would require a suspension upgrade (heavier springs).

A touch more power would be nice though, and that's easy enough to accomplish with a more powerful controller, or a controller bypass circuit for "WOT" operation.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

I keep forgetting to mention an important point: our batteries are USED.

They were cast-offs from another EV owner who was replacing his pack ... because they are worn out!

I'd expect both better power (acceleration) and significantly better range (double, probably) with a new set of batts to replace these ones.

[thinktankhank]

A great accomplishment! I'm also in Ontario and am itching to do a conversion project, but I've been hesitant because my insurance co. said no way! Could you please tell me who insured it? (Answer by private email if you prefer). Thanks!

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

The insurance answer differs even *within* an insurance co., depending on the agent you happen to talk to. It can be a challenge, but it can be done legitimately with persistence.

I recommend you post your question to one of 2 Ontario EV discussion forums to get the experiences from several actual EV owners.

For Durham: durhamelectricvehicles DOT com - follow the link to their Google discuss group.

For Ottawa: evco DOT tricolour DOT net - for instructions on joining the e-mail list.

[Gewels8787]

Congratulatios! you made it. I am really happy there are ppl that have some brain. I wish it was legal in my country , BB

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

I think it IS legal in Italy.  Do a search for "electric Fiat 500" or look for user "jeppmagic" and you'll see a *really* nice conversion done recently.

[Gewels8787]

No it's not belive me. The 500 conversion is signed as a prototype vehicle and may be a property anly of an assotiation. In short not accessible to common ppl. PS, Italy is not a free contry , its a half-free one , like Turkey.

Bureacracy here suppresses all kind of personal initiative. :(

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Well, that's very interesting news - thanks for correcting me. Sorry to hear about the state of things for conversions in Italy.

[landongendur]

That is so freaking awesome! Completely practical in the real world too with 20-25kms on a charge. Has anyone offered to buy it from you yet?

The most shocking part is how little money you spent on the conversion!!

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Hi Peakster... no, the most shocking part is when I accidentally short one of the battery cables :)

No offers to buy this one (not for sale anyway), but we've had more than a few people ask us if we'll make another one for them (also no, sorry!).

[GANTZ100pts]

so how far can it go so far? wish i could build one but i dont got the know how on how to do it right with out messing up.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

20-25 km on a charge. That's in warm weather (uninsulated lead acid batteries don't do well in the cold), and driving it very gently.

[CzechEVclub]

That Roger's announcing voiceover in the start of the video is just hilarious! Thanks for the video.. The clutch pedal trick is neat also.

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Ding ding! You get the prize for being the first commenter to name the mystery voice. :D

[CzechEVclub]

And the prize goes to? Please subscribe to our channel we need some audience/views heavy-lifting help. Altough we are new on the internet but old veterans of the EV fight or plight? :@ )

[cant7think7clearly]

Was that the CEO of GM upon the release of the EV1 speaking at the start?

[CzechEVclub]

Yes, you won the 2nd place! It's the former GM Chairman Roger B. Smith (of "Roger and Me" fame - Michael Moore's film)..

[Odziz]

Way to go, finally on the road. I've been following this project from the start, what a blast!

[civicaccordhonda]

YAY

[cant7think7clearly]

I'm so jealous! That looks like FUN! :)

[ForkenSwiftDotCom]

Driving it is a treat, no doubt. You'll be making your first test drive vid soon enough...

[mcrickman]

You can here the birds chirping from inside the car while driving. I love it. OH please do something about that loud ass blinker. hehe

[ekaftan]

Nice use for the clutch pedal! I'll will most likely duplicate it in mine :)

[peggus2]

Sweet! Good job terrorizing the neighborhood Darin!