Two words: Real Quiet. He won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, & lost the Belmont Stakes by a nose to Victory Gallop. Greatest horse not to be a Triple Crown winner.....
I have a hard time understanding how anybody could knock this great TB racehorse. Heck that goes for any great racehorse for that matter(or even a very very good one for that matter)! Just enjoy greatness when you witness it. I spent a lifetime breeding racehorses hoping to get my hands on the "BIG ONE!" I.E. they don't grow on trees! Smile.
Just my 2 cents...Affirmed was over rated. Slew was better . Secretariat better than either. Also in the past 33 years the best horse that did not win the Triple Crown was POINT GIVEN...: won Santa Anita Derby, Preakness, Belmont,Haskell, Travers,...his time in the Belomnt was better than Slew and Affirmed. Any opinions out there???
Since 33 years barely reaches Spectacular Bid, I'd definitely choose him as the best non-Tripler.
IMO, Point Given is the best 3 year old since the two stars of 1989 -- Sunday Silence and Easy Goer. I'm not sure I could confidently separate those three. Easy Goer and Point Given forever hurt their rating via inexplicably poor outings in the Derby.
@rodd7 Seattle Slew got very sick after the Triple Crown, and loss in California shortly afterwards. Bid still lost the Jockey Club Gold Cup and Belmont Stakes as a 3 year old. Affirmed lost the Marlboro Cup,Jockey Club Gold Cup and Travers DQ loss also as a 3 year old.
Seattle Slew is one of my favorites in the Triple Crown winners but lets be honest....Man O' War would have beaten all of them. Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Citation, Secretariat have nothing on him. Too bad we don't see these kinds of power horses nowadays. The thoroughbreds are so coddled. They used to race up to twice a week, now its more like once every 2 months!
Two great horses. Slew was probably one of the best bargains of all time from $17,500 yearling to $2 million champion racehorse to multi-million $ chef de race stallion. BTW Slew and J. O Tobin met twice Slew beat him in the Preakness. I'm just happy to have been around to see them.
@DanielSong39 Those 5 losses are a taint belonging to Cauthen (who was in a 110 race losing skein,) With Pincay up, all Affirmed ever did was win, his victory margins suddenly 8-10 lengths. Pincay's lone error was pannicking, in the Travers, as Alydar moved up the rail. (Alydar had recently trounced older horses in the Whitney, including J.O. Tobin, who--of course, utterly destroyed Slew). But be realistic! Exceller was a handicap star, but nothing LIKE the great Alydar--still less, Affirmed!
Not familiar with any such remark. But regardless --what Cauthen says is of little or no consequence -- Steve Cauthen's less-than-stellar jufgement is an important reason why Affirmed's racing record is marred by lacklustre finishes, in my opinion. If only Laffit Pincay had been in the irons. Ffor ths and every one of Affirmed's races. There'd be far fewer doubters as to who was better than whom.
Seattle Slew was a great horse. I feel that 78 was not his best year, but when he wanted to go, he went. I Think Affirmed is great too, but Slew was better. Even Cauthen agreed.
@TheSlewogold Of course Cauthen would agree to that. He was a less than stellar jock and in a bad funk. If Pincay would have ridden Affirmed, he wouldn't have let Slew go in the lead at such slow fractions. Both horses were champions and one race ( with a bad jockey ) is no way to compare the two
@bltorioles True, he did have a bad stretch of runs. But he did ride him through the triple crown when his ego could have easily messed it up, but even if the fractions are slow, if Affirmed was better than Slew he should have caught him. Nothing against him, he was clearly an amazing horse. I feel that he was better than Bid though. But when Slew was on a good day, few horses could have ever passed him. To me he stands as the 3rd best TC winner, behind Secretariat and Citation. Affirmed is #4
@bltorioles Very true, and is the big part of my reasoning. I still think in the Jockey Gold Cup, had Affirmed's saddle not slipped, affirmed probably would have been up with them, but slew probably would be second or first. Slew was still comming back on Exceller, and if there had been more distance, would have caught him.
But none the less, they are very, very hard to compare.
@TheSlewogold Yes they are hard to compare, but Affirmed was a totally different horse under Pincay ( never lost ) and Affirmed handed Exceller his lunch in the 1979 SAH. They both take a back seat to the powerful hooves of the best horse in modern times ( Secretariat )
@bltorioles Agreed. I feel that 79 was simmilar to 78, but was still his best year. The SAH is my favortie race that Affirmed ran. I feel bad for Cauthen because he lost such an amazing mount, but I feel that he was a whole other horse with Pincay.
@bltorioles I think thats pretty goood. Assuming the distance is 1 1/4 miles, with a fast track, thats probably about where I would have it. I would put JOT up to 25/1, but I feel the rest of the odds are good. I feel that this is any horse's race in this case. I would probably put S down to win. Slew would do well, but Affirmed would have a really, really good shot at this. I feel this was his best distance. I don't really know about JOT, but He beat Slew on a bad day, a race he should nvr
@bltorioles have really ran in to start with. There probably would have been a gap and then Alydar, who would have a really good closing kick, but I feel that at least Slew and Affirmed would already be sprinting home. Secretariat, saying that he was in the spring of the 73 season, would probably break slow, hang off the pace by a length, then gone just ran home. I feel that S is definetly the best horse here, but they are all so good its hard to make an unbiased opinion.
@bltorioles Oh yeah, and the Bid would prob hang back off of Affirmed. Affirmed would be good because he could lead or stalk. I don't really know how I forgot Bid.
@bltorioles I did an analysis of the times these horses ran in the Triple Crown plus Marlboro. Based on these results, Secretariat would obviously be a clear favourite over any of these distances, I would put him odds-on even in this field. Affirmed a clear second favourite, especially if the race is 1&1/4 or longer. Then third favourite a toss-up between Seattle Slew and Spectacuar Bid whose times are very closely matched, with Seattle Slew only having a clear edge at 1&1/8 miles or less.
@eckythimble After carefully thinking about it a few days after I posted this, I thend to agree with you. Not so much with the difference with Affirmed and Slew, but with Seceratariat. Sec 3/5, Affirmed 3/1, Slew 4/1, The Bid 5/1, Alydar 5/1 & Tobin 35/1
@deb90566 The Bid 4/5, Affirmed 6/5, Easy Goer 7/5, Seatte Slew 2/1, Sunday Silence 2/1, Sham 5/2, Alydar 3/1, Secretariat minus steroids i mean Lasix 7/2, John Henry and Forego 6/1, Arazi 7/1, Silky Sullivan 45/1. And they're off........... for the Agua Caliente Gold Cup at the infamous Agua Caliente race track in Tijuana, Mexico....Phar Lap,, Seabiscuit I salute you. Peace, Prosperity and Healt.
@rodd7 "Spectacular Bid can't get closer!"--The racecaller's very words.(..neither could
Coastal, though he made a try).
In Affirmed's JC Gold Cup, The Bid made not one, but 4 discrete & determined tries, to pass the reigning Triple Crown champ and wasn't Alydar's equal. Ever wonder why that race, w/ quadrupling turns-back of Spectacular Bid is unavailable among the videotaped records that dot the youtube.com landscape?
3-yr Bid's drubbing vs. 4yr Affirmed looks far worse than what u c here
Seattle Slew was such a beautiful runner and such an outstanding race horse. Although I liked Affirmed, he never reached Seattle Slew's level. Slew beat him twice and proved his superiority in the only place that counts, the racetrack. Slew was one of the greatest and proved it time and time again.
@stevesimpson33 Actually Exceller beat Affirmed the second time but your point is well taken. Seattle Slew made a heroic effort when it seemed like he was well beaten.
@DanielSong39 Thanks, and Slew did that, beyond question. ...But in Affirmed's Santa Anita Hcp., Exceller only tied for third (with Painted Wagon), some 2 1/2 lengths behind the place horse,Tiller -- who, like Exceller, was another of the best distance horses in the world at that time -- and who was himself 4 1/2 lengths back of Affirmed. Whose final time for the ten furlongs was 1:58 3/5 (a track record; one full second faster that the prior record shared by Bold Bidder ...and Spectacular Bid).
You give Slew 47 for the first half and the race is over. Barerra stated in the media that it was impossible for Affirmed to overcome that seeing he was in an all out drive on the turn. Then Affirmed/Pincay employed the same tactics on The Bid the following year, Delp pointed out the same slow early pace scenario and Barrera scoffed at the notion. To Barreras credit he gave The Bid high praise saying he was as game as he was fast. Ahh the golden era of horse racing..
@jkmooreelle Next match, Affirmed's saddle slipped, tho Exceller beat Slew. (Against Ex., A. would set a stakes record that still stands.) Before S.'s Marlboro none but Alydar had beaten Affirmed. Cauthen maybe cost A. 2 mud races; no horse EVER bested A., with Pincay up. ...heck, J.O.Tobin blitzed Slew further than this. (Affirmed won 14 G1 Stakes, most by any stallion ever.) Slew was rested; Aff. fought Alydar thru 8 G1s., & a 3-Crown reign of 30 yrs+ ..never MIND Coastal, and Spectacular Bid
@JayAr709 Wrong about your G1 comment,The Bid had 14 wins as well(look it up) Delp was calling out Affirmed's connections for a rematch and they didn't want any part of it. Which is interesting considering they have different running styles. You saw how many races THE BID lost at age 4.
@jkmooreelle How many times did 'Bid race Flying Paster? but Delp again would've expected his 9-pound break. (Affirmed gave weight like that to Sirlad, Text, & co., and won: 1/5 off the world record.) But 'Bid owned *2 Jewels* so Laz wasn't buying. The Bid did get his re-matches: Right there in the '79 Gold Cup, where it was Coastal who arguably looked the more threatening. 'Bid got a 5-lb pull and Shoemaker: The horse tried, and failed 4 times to get by. Affirmed raced wide: left the rail open!
@JayAr709 I believe they faced each other 5 or six times. Re the 79 Jockey club that was horse racings version of Ali/Frazier. Maybe The Bid wasn't at his best, he had a monster performance in the marlboro preceding the 79 jockey club. I doubt will ever see a triple crown winner which enhances Affirmed and Seattle Slew into iconic status. Some people have suggested changing the triple crown and space the races out more. I say leave it the way it is.
There all great horses, but remember this from 6.5 furlongs to 1.5 miles Spectacular Bid was 26for26 he carried 130 pounds 5 times won all 5 set one world record that still stands today 157.4/5 in the strub stakes, and set 7 track records the Bid best 4 year old of all time.
I understand Secretariat has some thin-skinned fans, but there are better spots to pick on Seattle Slew than a race where he laps the field and leaves another all-time great and Triple Crown winner in the dust.
Feel free to unleash all your frustrations in the video for 1977 Swaps Stakes (won by J.O. Tobin)
@cl0ngrf3 Funny thing. You have just shown, by your comment, you know absolutely nothing about horse racing. Please respond. I can't wait to see you, further, make an idiot of yourself.
@cl0ngrf3 One was a disqualification good buddy in which he won anyway. Almost knocked down & into the fence in his maiden race. Would have won it if his jockey wasn't blocked by a wall of horses. If you don't know why he lost the other 3 sorry to say you know very little about horse racing. If Slew ran the fast pace like the horses did in the 1973 M.C. he would have ran a slower time than the 1:45 4/5. Slew was whipped by the right hand 1st. down the strecth.Cont.
@cl0ngrf3 No response. That is why Crueget then hit him with his left hand. Still not much or any of a response. Why, he was tired. Driven out to the MAX', Big Red not a whip taken to the little 3 yr. old. Only a hand ride. Still a week away from peak form. So strong he galloped out another panel for the 1 1/4 mile in 1:57 4/5. Secretariat ran the 5 furlong in 1:09.2. Slew time was 1:10.1. Slew should had more left than Big Red being a 4 yr. old. If whipped like Slew the time 1:45 or better.
Let me comment on the big red thing with me a being a spectacular bid fan. yes big red was the bad ass of the track. Records still held today by him prove this. i am a major bid fan and I will say Big Red was and is the king of the track! O.k now say shit about people who like the bid. Big Red would've torn more tracks ,horses, owner and trainers egos etc. had he not been sindicated. And yes i am a Bid fan!
@amcmassage1970 And Secretariat ran a 1 mile workout in 'MUD' in fractions of 45 2/5, 57 2/5, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 & a 1:34 flat mile. He was 'Pulled Up' running another furlong in 13 3/5 sec. running the 1 1/8 in 1:47 4/5. If he ran another furlong in 13 4/5 in which he would have done with ease he would have ran the 1 1/4 mile in 'MUD' in 2:01 4/5. Thats 2/5 sec. faster than Slew's Derby win on a fast track & Slew was hit with the whip at least 10 times down the strecth. Can anyone grasp that?
@rscarbro100 grasp this from 6.5 furlongs to 1.5 miles the bid was 26 for 26 never lost set one world record and 8 track records carried 130 pounds 5 times and won all five.
@3232rams You must be living in the land of OZ. If I remember right The Bid lost to Coastal & Affirmed in a 1 1/2 mile distance. Never ran a 1 1/2 mile race at 4 yrs. of age. Remember, The Bid was 4 when he ran that Santa Anita fast rtack in 1:57 4/5 that is slighty downhill. Remember Secretariat 'Gallop Out' another panel in the Marlboro Cup at 3 yrs. of age taking the long route in 1:57 4/5 on a track Whitney Tower said that did not fancy R.R. or Cougar who like nothing but a fast track.Cont.
@rscarbro100 your right i ment to say a mile and a quarter from 6.5 to a 1 1/4 miles he was 26 for 26 he did lose both times at 1 1/2. both great horses SEc the best 3 year old ever but the Bid the best 4 year old of all time.
@3232rams I thought so my good man. As for The Bid being the best 4 year old ever is debatable between him & Dr. Fager. Fager had much better competition than The Bid. Any great horse sound & prepped can beat a gang of horses & rack off many straight wins racing horses of not much substance. Some luck has to go along with that as well. I don't believe the Bid ever beat a older champion or any champion horse during his career. I did not check but none comes to mind.Cont.
@3232rams He only beat 5 horses during his 4 yr. old season. They were Flying Paster in whom he beat 4 straight times a horse with a record of 13 wins of 27 races. He was the California horse of the year as a 2 yr. old. The others he beat were Pereginator, Paint King, Hold Your Tricks & Glorious Song whoever them horses were. As you can see he ran against much of nothing. Fager beat the great 3 time champion Damascus twice. Damascus record as a 3 yr. old ranks very close with Secretariat.
@3232rams Grasp this. Andy Beyer said he was not as sharp in the Marlboro Cup like he was in his T.C. races. He had only 4 weeks of training coming off a serious illnes. Laurin said he needed another week but still he set a world record for the 1 1/8 mile beating 4 champion older horses. The Bid was a great horse but no T.C. winner nor faster than Secretariat. Thats just the way it is.
I have always said something had to be wrong with Slew why he lost to J.O. Tobin. Now we know.Steve Haskins quote:
Turner had to take Slew to Dr. William Reed’s clinic three times in five days, because that’s where the machine was. Each time, he had to tranquilize him. When they shipped to California, Slew had to be tranquilized for the fourth time. He was dull before and during the race and never ran a lick.
Thats right AwsiDooger. Here is the reason no doubt.
This is for AwsiDooger the man that thinks he's an expert with all his theories why Secretariat ran so fast. Let me give you some information about the great Seattle Slew that you probably do not know. I try to be fair And tell it like it is And hoped you read the article by Whitney Tower where he goes into some detail the true condition of the track that day (Marlboro Cup) when Secretariat ran it in world record time. .Hope it makes you have a happy day.Cont. next post.
Overall Seattle Slew was the best all rounder that I've ever seen. Not the fastest or endurance type. I saw him live once.
The competitive instinct in him was perfect to whoever was in his field. He would do just enough to beat whatever the others had in them to lose. He wasn't the Man o war or Secretariat type.
I believe he'd beat both in match races because he had the ability to sense the other horse. Slew was one in a million.
@ronoman88 Don't think that theory that his competitive instinct nor his ability to 'Sense' another horse worked to well in his races against J.O. Tobin, Exceller or Dr. Patches.Don't believe it would work very well against a monster horse like Secretairat who ran his Marlboro Cup on a wet fast track & still a week from being in peak form as Whitney Tower stated in his article titled 'They Made Pigeons of The Field'. Do you have any more theories??
@ronoman88 I'd favor Slew in a match, because he was a natural front runner,
which is huge advantage in a match race. In a regular field (which is better test of ability) I'd give Secretariat the edge at 10 furlongs & up, Slew for shorter.
Man o'War was a front runner, too. So far back, I hesitate to compare.
@marysueeasteregg Slew was a great middle distance horse & when he reach 4 was also a very strong long distance runner. Secretariat was one hell of a middle distance runner as well passing the 1 mile post in 1:33 flat on his way to a world record in his M.C. win. Not only that DRF clocked him in 1:57 4/5 'Pullin Up' at the 1 1/4 mile post.Source: Charles Hatton DRF turf writer in the article titled 'Profiles of Best Horses' column in the American Racing Manual. He was a week away from peak form.
@marysueeasteregg Not only that but SEC. took the long route as well as Slew in that race And never touched by the whip on a not so fast track as well documented by Whitney Tower turf writer for SI. in the article he wrote they 'Made Pigeons of the Field. Slew was hit at least 5 times down his strecth run But that 1:45 4/5 was one hell of a time as well. Two monster of horses everyone can be proud of. Slew & Exceller JCGC race was one of the best I ever seen. Slew should have won.
@rscarbro100 I must know for sure you guys know hitting a horse with a whip is asking for 'Maximum' speed. I just did not see any whip used in Secretariat world breaking time as a "3" yr. old even though he was running a 1:09 2/5 at the 3/4 pole. Why in the hell did they take that 'Whip' to Slew so many times here down the strecth?? Still Slew running with 'Maximum' speed down the strecth he ran a terrific time in 1:45 4/5. Thats only 2/5 seconds slower than Big Red.
All this damn secratarit talk he beat like 8 horse in derby 4in Preakness and 2 in Belmont and also he wasn't even undefeated and had races where he didn't finish in money!slew,zenyatta,see the stars,barbaro,goldikova,smarty,big brown all beat secrataiet!!!
@ch9980 The talk was him running every quarter faster than the last And running it in 1:59 2/5 with the last quarter in 23 flat And still the record today. The talk is about him passing them horses in the Preakness like no other in history. They seen something special that day as well in record time. The talk in the Belmont was the 2:24 flat record time with ease. The talk in the M.C. in 1:45 2/5 beating 4 champions And was not in peak form in world record time. Pretty damn good UH??
@ch9980 Short fields but not as short as you claim. Fields for '73 Triple Crown races: KD-13 PRK-6 BMT-5. Do you know the details on his career, losses included? Secretariat's sole race out of money (4th) was his maiden where he was slammed between horses at start. 1st in Champagne but disqualified. Tooth infection for his only 3rd, in Wood Memorial. Fever coming up to 2nd in the Whitney. I'm unaware of an excuse in the Woodward. Being undefeated is always a matter of luck as well as talent.
@marysueeasteregg You said it the best. undefeated is always a matter of luck as well as talent. Secretariat was only training for his up coming MOW on grass & was entered in the Woodward at the last minute. He didn't have them hard workouts he needed for a 1 1/2 mile race. He was only ready to go 1 1/8 at the most. Still he ran that sloppy track in 2:26 3/5. But the Secretariat haters will not admit to any excuse for him but most will if Slew loses. I have defended the great Slew many times.
I WOULD ALSO that in 1999- Bloodhorse did the '100 Top Racehorses of the 20th Century'. I didn't vote- I was asked by William Nack for my opinion. I told him that I had it Secretariat/ManO'War/NativeDancer and Spectacular Bid. 'War and Dancer both had only 1 loss- both because of the jockey. I think Bid would have beaten Slew, but it doesn't matter, as I said, you people rip each other apart on these boards. It serves no logic to post anything.
@HollywoodParkSteward I respect yours or anyones opinion But I just can't stand it when some make statemenst that is plain not the truth. If I am not telling the way it is I wish someone would call me out on it. Why won't Dooger make a comment on what Whitney Tower said about it. Heywood Broun plainly said the Derby was not lightning fast. Never heard any credible person said that Belmont was lighnting fast. It never was an issue. Can we have a reasonable debate??
Seattle Slew beat Affirmed when it counted. That's enough for me. His entire TC was more impressive than Affirmed's, though that is mainly because Affirmed had Alydar to press him throughout. Regardless, I put Seattle Slew somewhere in the all time top 5, somewhere close behind Secretariat and Man O War.
@iltarion SS track time a Bemont was nearly 3 seconds slower than affirmed and SS had a slower KD time too.They tied in track time at the Preakness but SS was a year older and a better mud runner than affirmed such as this race in 1978 Marlbaro.Affirmed was overall a faster horse.
@LittleVinnyCock Whatever. When they raced head to head the Slew beat him easily. Scoreboard bro. They raced twice and Slew finished ahead of him in the Marlboro Cup and in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
@govrom12 Didn't Affirmed's saddle slip in the JC Gold Cup? You can't count that one. In the Marlboro, Slew was a year older, which does make a difference sometimes, and Affirmed had had a very tough Triple Crown campaign against Alydar, and according to Cauthen, was tired. Slew was relatively lightly raced that year because he got that virus earlier. Also, the other speed, which I think was Sensitive Prince, decided not to run, so Slew got his way on the lead.
Dooger- The worthless cancer that has poisoned all the You Tube boards isn't worth the spit from a bad swallow! Don't bother with his infantile and idiotic comments. You should just disable the comment feature so that the scum doesn't crawl up from the ground. He is useless and can only hide behind the computer screen pretending that he has a life.
@HollywoodParkSteward I don't know if your calling me worthless cancer or not But eveything I say is backed-up with facts. If 'FACTS' is worthess cancer then the theories here are dead pack meat left out for the buzzers.If anyone Scum comes from talk without jack crap to back it up. What have you got between your teeth??
@rscarbro100 Firstly, Dooger, you should just have changed your edit settings so that all comments need to be approved. Secondly, in regards to you Carbro- and the countless people you argue with- you've turned the boards into a cancer. I read countless comments and insults against you, as well as towards you- it's totally idiotic. This is why nobody from the industry bothers with these boards. I would have responded sooner, but I do not bother w/ You Tube.
@HollywoodParkSteward If I post something about Secretariat it is quotes from credible people that knows horse racing. Tower. Nack, Arcaro, Hatton, etc. They get pissed off when I do. They even cut these experts down & myself as well. If that is cancer so be it. To me the cancer is one that make statements without facts & its only their opinion. They just can't stand the "Truth' I guess.
Dooger is just a Secretariat hater.. Always claiming those 1973 tracks were freakish fast.Cont.
@HollywoodParkSteward Doogers statements are cancer. Claiming the M.C. race was freakish fast even though Whitney Tower from SI who was there said it was not. I guess Whitney Tower is cancer & no one should believe him. Why in the hell you guys get mad when I post his quote. I'm telling the truth to the Slew lovers. You & others don't want anyone to know it. Censorship is the way you guys want it. Its to protect Slew. You all are cowards.
In any case, I've always believed that a loss is a loss and every race counts, regardless of circumstances. Was Secretariat sick before the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward? A good trainer/owner would have had the sense to scratch the horse. Was Slew too tired after the Belmont? The owner should have listened to the trainer and put him away for the year. Fact is, horse racing is a team sport and it takes the collective efforts of the horse, trainer, owner, and jockey.
@DanielSong39 The statement of "a loss is a loss" simply means you lack the ability to discuss a subject further. But I must say that your rationale of ...your horse did something that my horse both didnt and couldnt so therefore your horse is on equal ground with my horse. That is the basic sentiment of nearly all the comments posted here.
@bbmtge Secretariat went 16 of 21, Slew 14 of 17. Secretariat went 3 of 5 vs. open graded stakes company, 1 of 3 on dirt. Slew went 3 of 5, all on dirt. Secretariat beat a strong field in the Marlboro; Slew defeated two legends in Exceller and Affirmed.
Both are great champions and both had excellent career records, beating several excellent horses along the way. Seattle's beatdowns of Affirmed and Exceller both compare to Secretariat's performance in the Marlboro. It's too close to call.
@DanielSong39 Again you do not know what you are talking about. Aside from your false coments on SEc...Exceller is not a legend and he defeated Slew in the JGC...in addition Affirmed was 3 YO. Nothing in your commentary boosts Slew. Tell me, with all of the mistakes you have made sofar...tell me about the races that Slew ran at 4YOI...which were G1 races???
@DanielSong39 Further on Affirmed...BEATDOWN(S)...plural...a 4YO defeating a 3YO in the MC is nothing to brag about...you compare that to a 3YO beating older horses...irrational...Affirmed was out of contention in the JGC early on ...beat down, please. As stated...your debate is one of dodging and misrepresenting the facts.
@DanielSong39 Don't you find it amazing a horse could run the Derby in 1:59 2/5 running every 1/4 faster than the last & the last 1/4 was ran in 23 sec. flat?? Slew would have been 14 lengths back. Slew won by 1 1/2 lengths. No camparison there.He beat Slew time in the Preakness by almost 1 second. No camparison there.Do you think Slew could have ran the Belmont in 2:24?? Big Red best Slew time in the M.C. & he was only 3. Slew lose everytime. Nothing Slew did to even compare them.
@DanielSong39 You know what my good man. There still chasing Secretariat records even to this day. The only way Slew, MOW, & Citation beats Secretariat is by the excuses they were always 'Eased Up', 'Coasting', won with ears pricking, never went after records, more weight, could had chirp in their ears, 1973 was lightning fast tracks, they had heart & Big Red didn't. What else did I leave out? I have heard it all. Can you come up with another good one better than these?? I can't wait.(smile)
@rscarbro100 Secretariat, MOW, Citation, and Slew were all great horses and they won more than their share of races against top-notch competition.
The goal in every horse race is to win the race, and you never need to make any excuses for winning. Seattle Slew won 14 of 17, 3 of 5 against open graded stakes competition, defeating Hall-of-Famers Exceller and Affirmed along the way.
Secretariat won more than his share as well and proved himself as one of the all-time greats.
@DanielSong39 Affirmed & Exceller are the 2 only horses that I know of that were of any substance that Slew ran against. I totally agree Affirmed, Citation & Slew were great horses. No doubt about that. Slew never broke any track or world records. He was a speed horse for the most part at middle distance But mostly always tailed off after that. The M.C. Cup was his best time ever. Him winning only 3 races as a 2 year old & getting horse of the year tells you all about the competition in 1976.
@DanielSong39 You are only comparing their win lost record. Slew never had knock your socks off performances like Secretariat did. Far as that goes none in history never came close to his T.C. wins. Still holds the 1:45 2/5 at Belmont Park. Still has after all these yrs. the Derby, Belmont & the Preakness only tied. Where is the comaparison othe than the win/lost record.?? Look at all the champions Big Red won against. No comparison whatsoever between Secretariat & Slew. None at all.
@DanielSong39 Post TC Sec ran 6 races...ALL GRADE 1 races. It is well documented that Sec had a viral infection and was thought to be done for the year. He ran with this in the Whiteny and never fully recovered, yet he still ran. 3 of these races were 1 1/2 miles and more. 3 of these races were run in 23 days 2 of which were 12 and 1/2 miles. He takes 4 of 6, running in 2 races he should have been scratched from. 4 of the 6 are against older horses...look up the credentials of the MC entrants.
@DanielSong39 Wr at 1 1/8 miles, track record in the MOW, both with ease. 2:26 and change in a loss in the mud at Belmont. The 1 5/8 mile Canadian Internatrional. 4 races against older horses. A mere 3 pound difference between RR and Sec in the MC. Seattle Slew post TC...Swaps Stakes, Grade 2...loss by 16 lengths, never raced again as a 3YO. 7 races as a 4YO...2 of them ALLOWANCE RACES, 2 of them GRADE 3!!!!!!!!!!! You must be kidding me.
@DanielSong39 Affirmed at 4 YO went 7-1-1 with 7 wins in a row and with 6 of them rated G1!!! 1:58 and 2/5 carrying 132 pounds. Back to Sec ...21 races in 2 years of racing...more than twice what Slew ran. And whoever heard of a TC champion running chump races at 4YO. Just like the jockey said ".......chumps!!!"
@bbmtge Secretariat and Seattle Slew had comparable career accomplishments and deserve to stand alongside as among the greatest horses of all time.
Affirmed, probably a touch below. Neither Secretariat nor Slew would have lost 5 in a row in what was supposed to be the middle of their primes. He got beaten by the chumps twice to start his 4-year-old season. Recovered extremely well, however. Beating Spectacular Bid was his career highlight.
@DanielSong39 You continue to make me laugh as to your assertions that Sec and Slew had comparable careers. Your complete retreat to generalized comments that you cant support and even run from is quite entertaining. Your naive attempts to take a portion of a horse's career as defining are hilarious. You flat run away from any detail and speak of "graded races" vs the actualoo grading of the race. These are the thought processes of a person who cant handle truths and analysis.
@DanielSong39 For starters, let's talk about how Seattle Slew was raced a mere 3 times at 2YO and a mere 6 times prior to the TC. Sec ran twice that number prior to the TC. Sec is credited by sporswroiters, BloodHorse mag, etc as having run the greatest TC in the history of the sport. Please tell me if you would like the details.Let's also remember that the poster of htis video claims that the 1973 KD was the the track (rated one second slower than the 1964 KD).
@DanielSong39 (con) Further, the poster of this video actually stated that he doubts the time in the 1973 KD not believing that Sham could have run the time that he did. Now we entyer the realm of total absurdity. In a vain attempt to discredit a horse, you simply state you do nto believe the posted time. You see, this is what's called "it is because I say it is". Another distorted thought process.
@DanielSong39 Back to Affirmed. As always you attempt to use wins and losses to your advantage wihtout dekving into detail and objectively analyzing the races both individually and as a group.To close his 3YO season Affirmed vis DQ'd, 2 lengths behind a 4YO TC Champion and has a slipped saddle in the JGC. As a 4YO he did Slew didnt do. 9 races...all but one G1. You talk about Slew running against great competition, yet run way from the fact that he ran only 3 G1 races as a 4YO.
@DanielSong39 Affirmed beaten by chumps. Thought process, "failure to qualify. Affirmed started his 4YO career with the Strub seris. Heard of it. Let me see...Slew started his 4YO career with 2 allowance races and a G3. He lost the G3. Who lost to chumps? Not only did Slew lose, but he ran a terrible time of 1:48 after 3/4 at 1;09 and 4/5. Definition...Godawful. With Pincay, Affirmed went 7-0 with 6 G1 victiories. 132 pounds and 158:2/5. 6 G1 wins. No chump g3's and no chump allowances.
@DanielSong39 Affirmed was a faster horse than Seattle Slew just look at the track times at the big 3 Seattle never bested Affirmed unless you count 1 single race but Aladar had beaten Affirmed too.Secretariat well that horse is one in billion and that Belmont record will Never be broken.
@DanielSong39 Your right. They shouldn't have raced Secretariat in the Whitney or the Woodward according to Steve Haskins from Bloodhorse. As he stated he was totally unprepared for the Woodward. Still he ran a 2:26 2/5 on a sloppy track & still lost. Does that not tell you what one hell of a horse he was?? Don't you find that amazing. What other horse coud have ran that sloppy track in that time not being trained for it? Slew was a 4 yr. old at his best in the JGC & ran a 2:27 1/5.
In the end, Secretariat went 16/21 and Seattle Slew went 14/17. Looks pretty similar, with a slight edge in consistency for Slew and slight edge for Secretariat in durability. Secretariat's world record for 1 1/2 miles and success on grass is enough to put him on level terms with Slew, even considering his inferior record vs. open company.
However, it must also be noted that Spectacular Bid consistently went off at lower odds and won more often than either Slew or Secretariat...
@DanielSong39 Myself I don't consider a 'Loss' when there is very good reasons why they lost. If they were on equals terms with the competition thats different. We all know Slew was better than Exceller. What insane jockey would put a horse on a insane pace & expect him to win.Slew was running a suicidall race with no fault of his own & if you want to count that as loss thats all right with me But I think different. Same with some of the losses with Big Red & others Look at the whole picture.
@rscarbro100 We can continue this discussion in the 1978 Jockey Gold Cup video. However, in that race Slew was simply too keen to go, and even broke through the gate before sprinting the first 6 furlongs, leaving Affirmed and would-be rabbit Life's Hope trailing. I put that more on the trainer than the jockey. Slew was going for the world record for 6 furlongs in a 1 1/2 mile race and there isn't much the jockey can do under those circumstances.
@DanielSong39 Let's see if I have this straight...Sec mile and a half record and success on turf put him on even keel with Slew??? That is an interesting criteria...you rate a horse equal to another when he performs in a manner that the other cannot. Open company...as a 3YO Sec defeated older horses 3 out of 4 times once setting a WR at a mile and an eighth carrying 3 lbs over scale. As always you either cant qualify your statements...or...when you do you are erroneous and illogical..
@bbmtge My argument is that every race counts. Your argument is, "let's rationalize every loss. The horse with the better excuse for his losses is the better horse".
In any case, Secretariat defeated older horses on dirt 1 out of 3 times on dirt, defeating a stellar field in the Marlboro while losing vs. decent field in the Whitney and the Woodward - before finishing his career on grass.
@DanielSong39 There is a difference between excuses and qualifiers. Again you dont seem to want to go thtere. Also, try to be factual. Being excusedriven is to limit comparison. Sec did not lose to older horses 2 out of 3 times. That is a false statement. Slew never ran against older horses. Sec ran 4 times...twice on dirt and twice on turf...defeating older horses 3 of 4 times. The MC, WW and MOW were run over period of 23 days. There is nothing in Slews career that compares...
From a handicapping point of view, both Seattle Slew and Secretariat were brilliant and were deserved odds-on favorites in most of their races.
With that said, there were enough chinks in both horses' armor to seriously consider betting against them. Obviously, there were times when the contrarian approach was successful.
Secretariat faced slightly better competition against 3-year-olds and Seattle Slew had more competition vs. open company.
Seattle Slew was the greatest HORSE of all time. First of all, there is not a horse who could even come close to "Slew" in the breeding shed. He is even more popular for his offspring in which he put on the track. Wait a minute, we all forget he was a triple crown winner too. One more thing. He was the first & ONLY horse to date (2010) to win the triple crown while undefeated. There is not a horse who ever lived who had Seattle Slews' prowess on and off the track.
Slew ran the Belmont in mud.... Secretariat's 3/4 split in the Belmont was faster than Slew's for this race... it can go on and on. as for a fan of Triple Crowns tho, watching the most dominant performance ever in Secretariat's and the only undefeated horse through the Triple Crown in Slew's. pricelessx2
@revpgesq And they were also treated to Affirmed's Triple Crown over the terrific Alydar and Spectacular Bid's ill-fated attempt. We've seen nothing but near misses since then; the most recent being Big Brown, who didn't even bother to finish the Belmont.
Gripping stuff; I hope to see a Triple Crown winner in the near future. And we will see one eventually; let's celebrate it with style when it happens.
Dr. Fager is a criminally underrated horse who didn't get his due because he did most of his damage against open competition instead of beating up on 3-year-olds. His 1968 season surpasses any single season that Secretariat or Seattle Slew put up.
That's the problem with rating horses. Races vs. open company should carry more weight because there's more competition. Instead, they carry less weight. It's truly mindboggling, but I suppose that's how things work.
We see this all too often: hotshot 3-year-olds who are tossed aside when they have to face tougher competition. All of the sudden their times get slower, they have to dig in deeper down the stretch and they often fade. Even the legends had their troubles against open company. This race is a classic example of a more developed, experienced, and faster horse laying the beatdown against a young challenger...
@DanielSong39 To paraphrase what you said about 3-year olds getting tossed aside when the have to face tougher competition: We see this all too often that hotshot 3-year olds like Slew are tossed aside when they have to face tougher competition like the 3 year old J.O. Tobin who crushed him by 16 lengths in the Swaps. This race is a classic example of a faster horse laying the beatdown against a challenger of the same age.
Another factor most people miss is that the handicap division is generally deeper and stronger than the 3-year-old division. The best horses are often not eligible to run in the classics; that's why winning races like this one is more difficult than winning a Triple Crown race.
It's hard to judge horses based on just the classics. Secretariat looked invincible in winning the Triple Crown, but batted .333 vs. open company on dirt. Affirmed got smashed by Slew and Exceller.
@DanielSong39 As you pointed out, it is hard to judge horses based just on the classics. Seattle Slew won the triple crown handily, but he got trounced in "open company" by JO Tobin, Dr. Patches, Exceller, Affiliate, and Text.
It's senseless to respond to every post. The group of Secretariat worshippers and time obsessed handicappers would have picked Affirmed handily in this race. That's all you need to know to evaluate their proclamations. Affirmed ran the Derby and Belmont much faster than Slew. He beat Alydar, not Run Dusty Run. Therefore Affirmed will dominate Slew. It's indeed a simple bar stool mindset, one that bookies love. When all you can see is the obvious, essentially you can't see anything.
@AwsiDooger You have no evidence to back up your claim that a disproportionate number of Secretariat "worshippers" as you describe them would have picked Affirmed to win over Slew. For all you or anyone else knows so-called Sec worshippers may have been less inclined to favor Affirmed over Slew than the population at large. Even though I have no data to back this up, I would guess that a majority of Sec worshippers picked Slew to defeat J.O. Tobin. What is your point anyway?
@AwsiDooger You Slew lovers want to call his Derby win the best ever. I never in my life hear one sportswriter or any horse racing expert ever compare that race even close to what Big Red done. We all know how Secretariat electrifed the crowd & thousand around the world in his Derby win. Still untouched. You won't admit it will you? Slew was hit at least 11 times down the strecth in the Derby much like Sham was. Slew loses by 14 lengths. Woodie Broun said that track was not lightning fast.
@AwsiDooger Its a good thing you were not a sportswriter for some horse magazine. You would be fired the first day & be the laughing stock of the horse racing world. They might even admit you to a insane asylum.(smile) I can back up my statements from the experts of what they said not speculation & theories like you do. You won't tell Affirmed was found to have a throat infection the next day & point out he was a 3 year old. If the shoe was on the other foot you would. Tell all the story.
@AwsiDooger Its a good thing you were not a sportswriter for some horse magazine. You would be fired the first day & be the laughing stock of the horse racing world. They might even admit you to a insane asylum.(smile) I can back up my statements from the experts of what they said not speculation & theories like you do. You won't tell Affirmed was found to have a throat infection the next day & point out he was a 3 year old. If the shoe was on the other foot you would.
@AwsiDooger Actually, Affirmed went off at better odds that sSew based on Slews previous performance. I dont think that it was Sec fans who set the odds before this race. Further to brag about a champion 4YO beating a champion 3YO is ludicrous. As always, ytou twist and turn and misrepresent. You have to in order to keep up your so-called commentary.
@AwsiDooger When Affirmed won in 1978- it was the finest crop of three year olds that I had ever watched on the track at one time- 1973 would be second. In '78 you have three horses that in almost ANY other year would have won the Triple Crown- Affirmed, Alydar and Believe It. You had another that going into the Derby was undefeated- a speed demon- Sensitive Prince. I almost any Derby this past decade- he would have been a solid favorite.
@AwsiDooger U R ABSLTLY RIGHT! i would pick AFFIRMED 10/10 times, senseless arguments, i can't make sense of EASY GOER losing to SUNDAY SLNC (derby, preak) then going a 2:26 blmnt stks, what the hell made SEC run a 2:24 belmont unencouraged etc... endless "what the hells". handicappers share our shoes "we r all handicapped attempting to discern a horses state on race day". appreciate the past w/out the screaming posts, hope for a memorable future. SEC fans relax all r aware of his accomplshmnts
@thunder2688 I am relaxed as a kitten on a hot summer day my good man. So was Big Red in his Marlboro Cup win. He was ridden out in his race. 'Ridden Out' means he was not asked for maximum speed. How many times Slew was hit with the whip in this race? I counted 5 times with the right hand. Was he hit with the left any? Can't quite tell. 'Hit with the Whip' is asking for maximum speed. Read Sharles Hatton article 1974 DRM stating Big Red was clocked 'Pullin Up' at the 1 1/4 post in 1:57 4/5.
@thunder2688 I am sure not everyone is aware of all his accomplishments my good man and some even deny them when proof is shown. Its not cutting down the great Slew at all. Seems like no Slew or The Bid fans never comment on Big Red's accomplishments in his fast 'Blow Outs'. Wouldn't you even say those fast fractions he ran in 'MUD' in 45 2/5, 572/5, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 and 1:34 flat for a mile is one dummdinger of a 'Blow Out'? Remember, a 'Blow Out' is a 'Work Out' not asking for Maximum speed
@thunder2688 Check these fractions out 6 days after his record Derby win. 11, 2/5, 11 1/5, 12, 10 1/5 and 12 4/5. Thats 57 flat for 5 furlongs. Check out that 10 1/5 4th furlong ran. Laurin noted he was not wearing blinkers & he would have went 56 flat with blinkers. Chick Lang quoted DRF clocker Frank Robertson to the effect the colt's half was the fastest he ever timed on the Old Hilltop. Pretty good wouldn't you say? Just another accomplishment he had without asking for 'Maximum' speed.
@thunder2688 Gee good buddy. Many horses lose the Derby & Preakness but have beaten horses in the Belmont that have won both the Derby & Preakness.Many horses run a 1 1/2 mile better than others. The Big Easy was just one of them.
Luckily Secretariat was not as fragile or paranoid as some of his biggest fans. It's definitely the weakest fan base I've ever encountered. They swarm en masse to videos or message boards when his dominance is questioned, tag team posting and refusing to let go until they've posted dozens of consecutive comments. I've seen it repeatedly on YouTube and elsewhere. Then somehow they think they shouldn't be called out on it, even though it's obviously coordinated. LOL.
@AwsiDooger The reason we swarm on these videos is not because we are Slew haters but to read the outrageous statements guys & gals like you make that Slew was better or as good as Secretariat. You hate 'Times Ran' because your horse lose. You look at Big Red defeats & he had no reasons at all why he lost to hear it from you & others. No excuses for him But plenty for Slew. Want to convinced many Big Red ran on lightning fast tracks which is a total Lie. We set the record straight..
Secretariat was a great horse who beat up on a fairly decent 3-year-old class. Sham was a decent horse but let's not compare him to Easy Goer, Alydar, or even Bet Twice. Forego was probably the best of the bunch but he was a late-bloomer.
Against older horses on dirt, he won 1 of 3 races on dirt. He ran a game second to Onion and Prove Out, but also beat a very strong field in the Marlboro. He would finish his career with a couple of grass races.
i was at Belmont Park for this race and i remember Affirmed was around 4-5 and Slew was near 5-2 coming off his loss against Dr Patches. My Dad saw Slew come onto the track and Cordero could barely hold him in the post parade. My Dad who rarely played chalk said son, theres no way this horse is losing today and put $100 to win on Slew.
@thelongshot99 Slew proved who was best in this race. Good thing your dad bypassed the chalk Affirmed and put the money on Slew. The race itself was no contest.
Slew was absolutely on the same level as Secretariat and his performances prove it. Just look at the quality of competition and how easily he dusts them - in this case, a Triple Crown winner. Final time is a LOUSY way of determining the quality of the horse. You have to look at the races!
@DanielSong39 Qualify your statement. Which performances of Slew compare with Sec??? Can't wait for this one. BTW you are aware that Affiremd was 3YO in this race.Again, cantr wait!!!
@DanielSong39 I think Affirmed was the only champion horse Slew ever ran against. Am I right? If you want to talk about competition then look at Secretariat M.C. win. What other horse ever beat 4 champions in one race?? Exceller won 15 of 33 races. Was in the hall of fame but was not a champion of anything. Slew never proved he was on the same level as Secretariat. Only in your mind but not in 'FACTS'. Your trying to compare a 4 year old against a 3 year old as well. Big Red still wins.
@rscarbro100 Seattle Slew's record shows several similarities to Secretariat's. Both had one inexplicable flop race as a 3-year-old (Swaps, Wood). Both won the Triple Crown, but lost two races vs. open company. As for the competition... I think Exceller & Affirmed compare favorably to anyone Secretariat ever faced. I'd rather face the four champions in one race than having to face Exceller and Affirmed time and time again.
@DanielSong39 Exceller did not compare with 'Prove Out'. Why did you leave him out? He still holds the record for the 2nd fastest 1 1 /2 mile on dirt in a 2:25 4/5 time. A time Slew & Exceller never approached. Slew never came close to the 4 yr. old Riva Ridge world record a 1 3/16 mile in 1:52 2/5. Still not been beaten to this day. He done it at 4 years of age. Slew beat a 3 yr. old Affirmed that beat the great Bid. Affirmed better at 4 & his belt did not slip that day either. (smile)
@DanielSong39 Slew ran a 3 year old Affirmed & Big Red a 4 year old Riva Ridge. Big Red also ran agianst Prove Out who out performed Exceller by lengths. .Raced against Sham who out performed Slew in the Derby & Preakness. both were records as well. Slew just did not have the competition like Big Red did. I will say Exceller & Affirmed were no doubt great competiton But not quite like Big Red had to go up against.
@DanielSong39 Final time isn't the only factor in assessing the quality of a horse, but it most certainly factors into the equation. Quite frankly, if Slew and Secretariat could have competed against one another in the Belmont, I don't think Seattle Slew runs 2:23 and change to defeat Sec. Sec passed the 1 1/4 mile mark of that race in 1:59 while Slew never managed to run a single sub 2 min 1 1/4 mile race in his entire career.
@sl7293 Correction: Seattle Slew did run a sub 2 minute time at the Swaps, but that was on one of those West Coast tracks where sub 2 minute times were fairly common.
@DanielSong39 If Slew proved, as you claim, that he was a better horse than Affirmed by defeating him in the Marlboro, does it follow that J.O. Tobin is a better horse than Slew because he defeated him by 16 lengths in the Swaps? Alternatively, is it more reasonable to say that you cannot judge the quality of one horse relative to another purely on the basis of one race?
Slew was an undefeated Triple Crown winner. i think the only other horse to do that was Man O War. And Im glad you mentioned the Ky Derby. Even racing novices know Slew had a very poor break at the gate yet somehow got near the lead into the first turn. watch Slew run off the tv screen in the 1977 Flamingo. Look at the quality of the field he dominated-Affirmed, Cox's Ridge, Upper Nile, all very good. And for my time friends Darby Creek Rd held the Spa record at 7f.
i dont know else to say. Best horse i ever saw and i didnt see Big Red. Psychos keep posting time which is stupid and what u get in jail. Slew would rip the heart out of any horse that challenegd him on the lead. To the time morons- How fast was the Easy Goer-Sunday Silence KY Derby? I think 206 but were they that bad?Their Belmont and Preakness was a "tad" faster.
@thelongshot99 You & others love to talk about Slew fast fraction times in his races But fall way short of even mentioning his final times which show the true measure of a horse Not how fast he ran before he got there to the line. Watch some Secretariat videos & you might learn something about 'SPEED' before you call people stupid, idiots or morons. He ran until his tongue hung out in the K.Y. Derby begin whipped at least 11 times & ended up with a 2:02 1/5 finish.
@thelongshot99 Again qualify your statements. What was Slew's record as a 4YO in major races, not allowances. What was Bid and Affirmed's records as 4YO. Again, major races. Can't wait.
never said slew was better than Secretariat. what i did say was that if they ran at 1m to 1/1/8 miles my loot would be on Slew. I will never comment on Big Red cause i never saw him race. You idiots that dont think Slew was the real deal are insane. You want time- Slew ran the Marlboro in 145.8. Enuf with time morons.
@thelongshot99 Put your foot in your mouth much???? Sec, not fully recovered from his viral infection, ran his MC as a 3YO. He set the world record and defeated older horses. The video is vailable on youtube.
Slew holds no world records. He couldn't even break any one of Secretariat's track records. He would have even lost to Sham in the Kentucky Derby, given Sham's time. That makes him slower than Sham. When Secretariat set all 3 TC track records..everything else is just conversation. Otherwise, another horse in the last 37 years would have beaten ANY of his TC track records..hasn't happened. Sec. set the standard for all horse racing. We'll never see supernatural greatness like Secretariat again.
Secretariat was a dominant horse who proved it in the Classics. Dr. Fager dodged the Triple Crown despite not suffering a serious injury. Dr. Fager defeated Damascus in April then avoided risk at Louisville because his connections knew he was one dimensional and couldn't be rated in top company with big fields at classic distances. They claimed a knee injury then immediately ran in the Withers on May 13. Dr. Fager then avoided the Preakness and Belmont despite winning the Withers in record time.
@AwsiDooger All comments are innuendo. It fits your style and the very thing you complain about in others. You are a mere hypocrite and avoid facts at all cost.
Secretariat definitely wins in number of fans who desperately post 6 or 7 consecutive comments on unrelated videos. LOL. Camp out and whine.
Seattle Slew is not fast enough. That's a delirious opinion. I almost fell over in a seizure of laughter when you claimed Slew couldn't handle a rapid 3/4. Slew and Cormorant set record fractions at 1:09 4/5 in the Preakness. Cormorant wilted, even though he had the inside post while Slew broke from the far outside against a severe track bias.
@AwsiDooger The "classics" as you call them are not the only races where horses prove themselves. If that were the case, horses like Kelso and Forego would not be ranked in the top 10 and ahead of Seattle Slew. Contrary to what you say, Dr Fager did run classic distances against tough opponents. He ran 1 1/4 mile races against arch rival Damascus finishing under 2 minutes three times while carrying up to 135 lbs. He is also ranked ahead of Seattle Slew and deservedly so in my opinion.
@AwsiDooger It is true that Dr Fager could not be rated, but that would not have been a problem in triple crown where double entries, with one horse entered as a rabbit, are almost non-existent. There are only 3 horses that ever finished in front of Dr F in a race & all of them did so as double entries that included a rabbit entered to burn him out. These 3 included all time greats Damascus and Buckpasser. The 3rd horse was 2 yr old horse of the year Successor who defeated Dr Fager at age 2.
i never saw DR Fager but if anyone was favored over Seattle Slew my loot would be on the 'Slew. In a 3 horse mega race i would bet Forego. People dont realize what a great sprinter he was.
The sad part is we havent seen a horse as good as these in the past 30 years. Sunday Silence was close but not as good as these.
This race, I always thought, did a great job at giving an example of how an awesome 4yr.old that won the Triple Crown is a bit stronger and faster than an awesome 3yr.old that won the Triple Crown. That extra year, going into their 4yr.old campaigns, really does make them bigger and stronger yet again. Most think the 4yr.old season is when a colt is at peak racing level, or at least should be.
Spectacular Bid was the best non- triple crown horse. No other horse even comes close.
jkmooreelle 1 week ago
@jkmooreelle
I agree with that. In the 40+ years I've followed, Spectacular Bid is easily the best non-Tripler.
AwsiDooger 1 week ago
Two words: Real Quiet. He won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, & lost the Belmont Stakes by a nose to Victory Gallop. Greatest horse not to be a Triple Crown winner.....
thackery12 1 week ago
I have a hard time understanding how anybody could knock this great TB racehorse. Heck that goes for any great racehorse for that matter(or even a very very good one for that matter)! Just enjoy greatness when you witness it. I spent a lifetime breeding racehorses hoping to get my hands on the "BIG ONE!" I.E. they don't grow on trees! Smile.
BE109 1 month ago
Just my 2 cents...Affirmed was over rated. Slew was better . Secretariat better than either. Also in the past 33 years the best horse that did not win the Triple Crown was POINT GIVEN...: won Santa Anita Derby, Preakness, Belmont,Haskell, Travers,...his time in the Belomnt was better than Slew and Affirmed. Any opinions out there???
sulliva 4 months ago
@sulliva
Since 33 years barely reaches Spectacular Bid, I'd definitely choose him as the best non-Tripler.
IMO, Point Given is the best 3 year old since the two stars of 1989 -- Sunday Silence and Easy Goer. I'm not sure I could confidently separate those three. Easy Goer and Point Given forever hurt their rating via inexplicably poor outings in the Derby.
AwsiDooger 4 months ago
@sulliva What happened to Seattle Slews 3 year old fall campaign? Affirmed, and the Bid showed up for their's
rodd7 3 months ago
@rodd7 Seattle Slew got very sick after the Triple Crown, and loss in California shortly afterwards. Bid still lost the Jockey Club Gold Cup and Belmont Stakes as a 3 year old. Affirmed lost the Marlboro Cup,Jockey Club Gold Cup and Travers DQ loss also as a 3 year old.
flylion132 3 months ago
Seattle Slew is one of my favorites in the Triple Crown winners but lets be honest....Man O' War would have beaten all of them. Seattle Slew, Affirmed, Citation, Secretariat have nothing on him. Too bad we don't see these kinds of power horses nowadays. The thoroughbreds are so coddled. They used to race up to twice a week, now its more like once every 2 months!
CopperTimeWarrior 4 months ago
dang...10 days after i was born!
Brian211978 5 months ago
Two great horses. Slew was probably one of the best bargains of all time from $17,500 yearling to $2 million champion racehorse to multi-million $ chef de race stallion. BTW Slew and J. O Tobin met twice Slew beat him in the Preakness. I'm just happy to have been around to see them.
chuckemeade 5 months ago
Slew was better than Affirmed in my opinion. Actually quite a bit better.
thehonzie1 6 months ago
@thehonzie1 Nah. Slew's better finishes are easily explained (cling to them though you may).
Alydar deSTROYED J.O.Tobin. Who, in turn, embarraased Slew much worse than you see here.
Exceller, good as he could be, just can't be compared to these, as Affirmed's S.A.H'cp amply shows.
Spectacular Bid is better than Slew, and--had Affirmed raced at age 5--the Bid's sparkling 4-year
old record would have more 2nd-place fisinshes behind Affirmed. Slew, like Secretariat, is simply too lightly raced
JayAr709 6 months ago
Second loss in a 5-race losing streak for Affirmed, while Seattle Slew proves emphatically who was boss in '78.
Alydar was a fine horse as well but I doubt he would've fared much better vs. the likes of Seattle Slew or Exceller.
DanielSong39 7 months ago
@DanielSong39 Those 5 losses are a taint belonging to Cauthen (who was in a 110 race losing skein,) With Pincay up, all Affirmed ever did was win, his victory margins suddenly 8-10 lengths. Pincay's lone error was pannicking, in the Travers, as Alydar moved up the rail. (Alydar had recently trounced older horses in the Whitney, including J.O. Tobin, who--of course, utterly destroyed Slew). But be realistic! Exceller was a handicap star, but nothing LIKE the great Alydar--still less, Affirmed!
JayAr709 7 months ago
Not familiar with any such remark. But regardless --what Cauthen says is of little or no consequence -- Steve Cauthen's less-than-stellar jufgement is an important reason why Affirmed's racing record is marred by lacklustre finishes, in my opinion. If only Laffit Pincay had been in the irons. Ffor ths and every one of Affirmed's races. There'd be far fewer doubters as to who was better than whom.
JayAr709 7 months ago
Seattle Slew was a great horse. I feel that 78 was not his best year, but when he wanted to go, he went. I Think Affirmed is great too, but Slew was better. Even Cauthen agreed.
TheSlewogold 7 months ago in playlist Horse Races
@TheSlewogold Of course Cauthen would agree to that. He was a less than stellar jock and in a bad funk. If Pincay would have ridden Affirmed, he wouldn't have let Slew go in the lead at such slow fractions. Both horses were champions and one race ( with a bad jockey ) is no way to compare the two
bltorioles 6 months ago
@bltorioles True, he did have a bad stretch of runs. But he did ride him through the triple crown when his ego could have easily messed it up, but even if the fractions are slow, if Affirmed was better than Slew he should have caught him. Nothing against him, he was clearly an amazing horse. I feel that he was better than Bid though. But when Slew was on a good day, few horses could have ever passed him. To me he stands as the 3rd best TC winner, behind Secretariat and Citation. Affirmed is #4
TheSlewogold 6 months ago
@TheSlewogold More or less agreed....Slew did beat him twice
bltorioles 6 months ago
@bltorioles Very true, and is the big part of my reasoning. I still think in the Jockey Gold Cup, had Affirmed's saddle not slipped, affirmed probably would have been up with them, but slew probably would be second or first. Slew was still comming back on Exceller, and if there had been more distance, would have caught him.
But none the less, they are very, very hard to compare.
TheSlewogold 6 months ago
@TheSlewogold Yes they are hard to compare, but Affirmed was a totally different horse under Pincay ( never lost ) and Affirmed handed Exceller his lunch in the 1979 SAH. They both take a back seat to the powerful hooves of the best horse in modern times ( Secretariat )
bltorioles 5 months ago
@bltorioles Agreed. I feel that 79 was simmilar to 78, but was still his best year. The SAH is my favortie race that Affirmed ran. I feel bad for Cauthen because he lost such an amazing mount, but I feel that he was a whole other horse with Pincay.
TheSlewogold 5 months ago
@bltorioles love Secretariat - he was a MONSTER when he turned it on.
nin12dog 2 months ago
@TheSlewogold Give me your thoughts, all horses are the same age and in the prime of their repective racing careers in this dream race.
1. Seattle Slew Jean Kruget 3/1
2. Spectacuar Bid Willie Shoemaker 5/1
3. Alydar Jorge Velasquez 9/2
4. J.O. Tobin Cauthen 20/1
5. Affirmed Laffit Pincay Jr 3/1
6. Secratariat Ron Turcott 1/1
bltorioles 5 months ago
@bltorioles I think thats pretty goood. Assuming the distance is 1 1/4 miles, with a fast track, thats probably about where I would have it. I would put JOT up to 25/1, but I feel the rest of the odds are good. I feel that this is any horse's race in this case. I would probably put S down to win. Slew would do well, but Affirmed would have a really, really good shot at this. I feel this was his best distance. I don't really know about JOT, but He beat Slew on a bad day, a race he should nvr
TheSlewogold 5 months ago
@bltorioles have really ran in to start with. There probably would have been a gap and then Alydar, who would have a really good closing kick, but I feel that at least Slew and Affirmed would already be sprinting home. Secretariat, saying that he was in the spring of the 73 season, would probably break slow, hang off the pace by a length, then gone just ran home. I feel that S is definetly the best horse here, but they are all so good its hard to make an unbiased opinion.
TheSlewogold 5 months ago
@bltorioles Oh yeah, and the Bid would prob hang back off of Affirmed. Affirmed would be good because he could lead or stalk. I don't really know how I forgot Bid.
TheSlewogold 5 months ago
@bltorioles I did an analysis of the times these horses ran in the Triple Crown plus Marlboro. Based on these results, Secretariat would obviously be a clear favourite over any of these distances, I would put him odds-on even in this field. Affirmed a clear second favourite, especially if the race is 1&1/4 or longer. Then third favourite a toss-up between Seattle Slew and Spectacuar Bid whose times are very closely matched, with Seattle Slew only having a clear edge at 1&1/8 miles or less.
eckythimble 4 months ago
@eckythimble After carefully thinking about it a few days after I posted this, I thend to agree with you. Not so much with the difference with Affirmed and Slew, but with Seceratariat. Sec 3/5, Affirmed 3/1, Slew 4/1, The Bid 5/1, Alydar 5/1 & Tobin 35/1
bltorioles 4 months ago
@bltorioles Slew, Bid, Affirmed, and Alydar are all excellent horses, but Secretariat would have left them all in the dust.
deb90566 3 months ago
@deb90566 Well being I put Secretariat off at the even money favorite, your not tellling me anything I dont already know
bltorioles 3 months ago
@deb90566 The Bid 4/5, Affirmed 6/5, Easy Goer 7/5, Seatte Slew 2/1, Sunday Silence 2/1, Sham 5/2, Alydar 3/1, Secretariat minus steroids i mean Lasix 7/2, John Henry and Forego 6/1, Arazi 7/1, Silky Sullivan 45/1. And they're off........... for the Agua Caliente Gold Cup at the infamous Agua Caliente race track in Tijuana, Mexico....Phar Lap,, Seabiscuit I salute you. Peace, Prosperity and Healt.
rodd7 3 months ago
@rodd7 "Spectacular Bid can't get closer!"--The racecaller's very words.(..neither could
Coastal, though he made a try).
In Affirmed's JC Gold Cup, The Bid made not one, but 4 discrete & determined tries, to pass the reigning Triple Crown champ and wasn't Alydar's equal. Ever wonder why that race, w/ quadrupling turns-back of Spectacular Bid is unavailable among the videotaped records that dot the youtube.com landscape?
3-yr Bid's drubbing vs. 4yr Affirmed looks far worse than what u c here
JayAr709 3 months ago
Seattle Slew was such a beautiful runner and such an outstanding race horse. Although I liked Affirmed, he never reached Seattle Slew's level. Slew beat him twice and proved his superiority in the only place that counts, the racetrack. Slew was one of the greatest and proved it time and time again.
stevesimpson33 8 months ago
@stevesimpson33 Actually Exceller beat Affirmed the second time but your point is well taken. Seattle Slew made a heroic effort when it seemed like he was well beaten.
DanielSong39 7 months ago
@DanielSong39 Thanks, and Slew did that, beyond question. ...But in Affirmed's Santa Anita Hcp., Exceller only tied for third (with Painted Wagon), some 2 1/2 lengths behind the place horse,Tiller -- who, like Exceller, was another of the best distance horses in the world at that time -- and who was himself 4 1/2 lengths back of Affirmed. Whose final time for the ten furlongs was 1:58 3/5 (a track record; one full second faster that the prior record shared by Bold Bidder ...and Spectacular Bid).
JayAr709 7 months ago
You give Slew 47 for the first half and the race is over. Barerra stated in the media that it was impossible for Affirmed to overcome that seeing he was in an all out drive on the turn. Then Affirmed/Pincay employed the same tactics on The Bid the following year, Delp pointed out the same slow early pace scenario and Barrera scoffed at the notion. To Barreras credit he gave The Bid high praise saying he was as game as he was fast. Ahh the golden era of horse racing..
jkmooreelle 10 months ago
@jkmooreelle Next match, Affirmed's saddle slipped, tho Exceller beat Slew. (Against Ex., A. would set a stakes record that still stands.) Before S.'s Marlboro none but Alydar had beaten Affirmed. Cauthen maybe cost A. 2 mud races; no horse EVER bested A., with Pincay up. ...heck, J.O.Tobin blitzed Slew further than this. (Affirmed won 14 G1 Stakes, most by any stallion ever.) Slew was rested; Aff. fought Alydar thru 8 G1s., & a 3-Crown reign of 30 yrs+ ..never MIND Coastal, and Spectacular Bid
JayAr709 10 months ago
@JayAr709 Wrong about your G1 comment,The Bid had 14 wins as well(look it up) Delp was calling out Affirmed's connections for a rematch and they didn't want any part of it. Which is interesting considering they have different running styles. You saw how many races THE BID lost at age 4.
jkmooreelle 10 months ago
@jkmooreelle How many times did 'Bid race Flying Paster? but Delp again would've expected his 9-pound break. (Affirmed gave weight like that to Sirlad, Text, & co., and won: 1/5 off the world record.) But 'Bid owned *2 Jewels* so Laz wasn't buying. The Bid did get his re-matches: Right there in the '79 Gold Cup, where it was Coastal who arguably looked the more threatening. 'Bid got a 5-lb pull and Shoemaker: The horse tried, and failed 4 times to get by. Affirmed raced wide: left the rail open!
JayAr709 10 months ago
@JayAr709 I believe they faced each other 5 or six times. Re the 79 Jockey club that was horse racings version of Ali/Frazier. Maybe The Bid wasn't at his best, he had a monster performance in the marlboro preceding the 79 jockey club. I doubt will ever see a triple crown winner which enhances Affirmed and Seattle Slew into iconic status. Some people have suggested changing the triple crown and space the races out more. I say leave it the way it is.
jkmooreelle 9 months ago
There all great horses, but remember this from 6.5 furlongs to 1.5 miles Spectacular Bid was 26for26 he carried 130 pounds 5 times won all 5 set one world record that still stands today 157.4/5 in the strub stakes, and set 7 track records the Bid best 4 year old of all time.
3232rams 11 months ago
I understand Secretariat has some thin-skinned fans, but there are better spots to pick on Seattle Slew than a race where he laps the field and leaves another all-time great and Triple Crown winner in the dust.
Feel free to unleash all your frustrations in the video for 1977 Swaps Stakes (won by J.O. Tobin)
DanielSong39 11 months ago
I saw Seattle Slew race in Florida. The horse seemed to glide over the track, hoofs barely touching the ground . I've never seen anything like it!
joelok48 1 year ago
@joelok48 1977 Flamingo Stakes at Hialeah. The most beautiful horse I've ever see at the most beautiful track in the world at that time. What a day!
joelok48 1 year ago
Too bad they forgot to ask for Secretariat's 'maximum' speed in the five races that he didn't win
cl0ngrf3 1 year ago
@cl0ngrf3 Funny thing. You have just shown, by your comment, you know absolutely nothing about horse racing. Please respond. I can't wait to see you, further, make an idiot of yourself.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@cl0ngrf3 One was a disqualification good buddy in which he won anyway. Almost knocked down & into the fence in his maiden race. Would have won it if his jockey wasn't blocked by a wall of horses. If you don't know why he lost the other 3 sorry to say you know very little about horse racing. If Slew ran the fast pace like the horses did in the 1973 M.C. he would have ran a slower time than the 1:45 4/5. Slew was whipped by the right hand 1st. down the strecth.Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@cl0ngrf3 No response. That is why Crueget then hit him with his left hand. Still not much or any of a response. Why, he was tired. Driven out to the MAX', Big Red not a whip taken to the little 3 yr. old. Only a hand ride. Still a week away from peak form. So strong he galloped out another panel for the 1 1/4 mile in 1:57 4/5. Secretariat ran the 5 furlong in 1:09.2. Slew time was 1:10.1. Slew should had more left than Big Red being a 4 yr. old. If whipped like Slew the time 1:45 or better.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
was alydar retired at this point?? ?? did he die?? i'm not sure..or was he just not racing
DartsRme312 1 year ago
Comment removed
amcmassage1970 1 year ago
Let me comment on the big red thing with me a being a spectacular bid fan. yes big red was the bad ass of the track. Records still held today by him prove this. i am a major bid fan and I will say Big Red was and is the king of the track! O.k now say shit about people who like the bid. Big Red would've torn more tracks ,horses, owner and trainers egos etc. had he not been sindicated. And yes i am a Bid fan!
amcmassage1970 1 year ago 2
@amcmassage1970 And Secretariat ran a 1 mile workout in 'MUD' in fractions of 45 2/5, 57 2/5, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 & a 1:34 flat mile. He was 'Pulled Up' running another furlong in 13 3/5 sec. running the 1 1/8 in 1:47 4/5. If he ran another furlong in 13 4/5 in which he would have done with ease he would have ran the 1 1/4 mile in 'MUD' in 2:01 4/5. Thats 2/5 sec. faster than Slew's Derby win on a fast track & Slew was hit with the whip at least 10 times down the strecth. Can anyone grasp that?
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 grasp this from 6.5 furlongs to 1.5 miles the bid was 26 for 26 never lost set one world record and 8 track records carried 130 pounds 5 times and won all five.
3232rams 11 months ago
@3232rams You must be living in the land of OZ. If I remember right The Bid lost to Coastal & Affirmed in a 1 1/2 mile distance. Never ran a 1 1/2 mile race at 4 yrs. of age. Remember, The Bid was 4 when he ran that Santa Anita fast rtack in 1:57 4/5 that is slighty downhill. Remember Secretariat 'Gallop Out' another panel in the Marlboro Cup at 3 yrs. of age taking the long route in 1:57 4/5 on a track Whitney Tower said that did not fancy R.R. or Cougar who like nothing but a fast track.Cont.
rscarbro100 11 months ago
@rscarbro100 your right i ment to say a mile and a quarter from 6.5 to a 1 1/4 miles he was 26 for 26 he did lose both times at 1 1/2. both great horses SEc the best 3 year old ever but the Bid the best 4 year old of all time.
3232rams 11 months ago
@3232rams I thought so my good man. As for The Bid being the best 4 year old ever is debatable between him & Dr. Fager. Fager had much better competition than The Bid. Any great horse sound & prepped can beat a gang of horses & rack off many straight wins racing horses of not much substance. Some luck has to go along with that as well. I don't believe the Bid ever beat a older champion or any champion horse during his career. I did not check but none comes to mind.Cont.
rscarbro100 11 months ago
@3232rams He only beat 5 horses during his 4 yr. old season. They were Flying Paster in whom he beat 4 straight times a horse with a record of 13 wins of 27 races. He was the California horse of the year as a 2 yr. old. The others he beat were Pereginator, Paint King, Hold Your Tricks & Glorious Song whoever them horses were. As you can see he ran against much of nothing. Fager beat the great 3 time champion Damascus twice. Damascus record as a 3 yr. old ranks very close with Secretariat.
rscarbro100 11 months ago
@3232rams Grasp this. Andy Beyer said he was not as sharp in the Marlboro Cup like he was in his T.C. races. He had only 4 weeks of training coming off a serious illnes. Laurin said he needed another week but still he set a world record for the 1 1/8 mile beating 4 champion older horses. The Bid was a great horse but no T.C. winner nor faster than Secretariat. Thats just the way it is.
rscarbro100 11 months ago
one of the last calls by the great Chic Anderson before his untimely death.
ChoralfanUSA 1 year ago
I have always said something had to be wrong with Slew why he lost to J.O. Tobin. Now we know.Steve Haskins quote:
Turner had to take Slew to Dr. William Reed’s clinic three times in five days, because that’s where the machine was. Each time, he had to tranquilize him. When they shipped to California, Slew had to be tranquilized for the fourth time. He was dull before and during the race and never ran a lick.
Thats right AwsiDooger. Here is the reason no doubt.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
This is for AwsiDooger the man that thinks he's an expert with all his theories why Secretariat ran so fast. Let me give you some information about the great Seattle Slew that you probably do not know. I try to be fair And tell it like it is And hoped you read the article by Whitney Tower where he goes into some detail the true condition of the track that day (Marlboro Cup) when Secretariat ran it in world record time. .Hope it makes you have a happy day.Cont. next post.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Overall Seattle Slew was the best all rounder that I've ever seen. Not the fastest or endurance type. I saw him live once.
The competitive instinct in him was perfect to whoever was in his field. He would do just enough to beat whatever the others had in them to lose. He wasn't the Man o war or Secretariat type.
I believe he'd beat both in match races because he had the ability to sense the other horse. Slew was one in a million.
ronoman88 1 year ago
@ronoman88 Don't think that theory that his competitive instinct nor his ability to 'Sense' another horse worked to well in his races against J.O. Tobin, Exceller or Dr. Patches.Don't believe it would work very well against a monster horse like Secretairat who ran his Marlboro Cup on a wet fast track & still a week from being in peak form as Whitney Tower stated in his article titled 'They Made Pigeons of The Field'. Do you have any more theories??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@ronoman88 I'd favor Slew in a match, because he was a natural front runner,
which is huge advantage in a match race. In a regular field (which is better test of ability) I'd give Secretariat the edge at 10 furlongs & up, Slew for shorter.
Man o'War was a front runner, too. So far back, I hesitate to compare.
marysueeasteregg 1 year ago
@marysueeasteregg Slew was a great middle distance horse & when he reach 4 was also a very strong long distance runner. Secretariat was one hell of a middle distance runner as well passing the 1 mile post in 1:33 flat on his way to a world record in his M.C. win. Not only that DRF clocked him in 1:57 4/5 'Pullin Up' at the 1 1/4 mile post.Source: Charles Hatton DRF turf writer in the article titled 'Profiles of Best Horses' column in the American Racing Manual. He was a week away from peak form.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@marysueeasteregg Not only that but SEC. took the long route as well as Slew in that race And never touched by the whip on a not so fast track as well documented by Whitney Tower turf writer for SI. in the article he wrote they 'Made Pigeons of the Field. Slew was hit at least 5 times down his strecth run But that 1:45 4/5 was one hell of a time as well. Two monster of horses everyone can be proud of. Slew & Exceller JCGC race was one of the best I ever seen. Slew should have won.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 I must know for sure you guys know hitting a horse with a whip is asking for 'Maximum' speed. I just did not see any whip used in Secretariat world breaking time as a "3" yr. old even though he was running a 1:09 2/5 at the 3/4 pole. Why in the hell did they take that 'Whip' to Slew so many times here down the strecth?? Still Slew running with 'Maximum' speed down the strecth he ran a terrific time in 1:45 4/5. Thats only 2/5 seconds slower than Big Red.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
All this damn secratarit talk he beat like 8 horse in derby 4in Preakness and 2 in Belmont and also he wasn't even undefeated and had races where he didn't finish in money!slew,zenyatta,see the stars,barbaro,goldikova,smarty,big brown all beat secrataiet!!!
ch9980 1 year ago
@ch9980 The talk was him running every quarter faster than the last And running it in 1:59 2/5 with the last quarter in 23 flat And still the record today. The talk is about him passing them horses in the Preakness like no other in history. They seen something special that day as well in record time. The talk in the Belmont was the 2:24 flat record time with ease. The talk in the M.C. in 1:45 2/5 beating 4 champions And was not in peak form in world record time. Pretty damn good UH??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@ch9980 Short fields but not as short as you claim. Fields for '73 Triple Crown races: KD-13 PRK-6 BMT-5. Do you know the details on his career, losses included? Secretariat's sole race out of money (4th) was his maiden where he was slammed between horses at start. 1st in Champagne but disqualified. Tooth infection for his only 3rd, in Wood Memorial. Fever coming up to 2nd in the Whitney. I'm unaware of an excuse in the Woodward. Being undefeated is always a matter of luck as well as talent.
marysueeasteregg 1 year ago
@marysueeasteregg You said it the best. undefeated is always a matter of luck as well as talent. Secretariat was only training for his up coming MOW on grass & was entered in the Woodward at the last minute. He didn't have them hard workouts he needed for a 1 1/2 mile race. He was only ready to go 1 1/8 at the most. Still he ran that sloppy track in 2:26 3/5. But the Secretariat haters will not admit to any excuse for him but most will if Slew loses. I have defended the great Slew many times.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
I WOULD ALSO that in 1999- Bloodhorse did the '100 Top Racehorses of the 20th Century'. I didn't vote- I was asked by William Nack for my opinion. I told him that I had it Secretariat/ManO'War/NativeDancer and Spectacular Bid. 'War and Dancer both had only 1 loss- both because of the jockey. I think Bid would have beaten Slew, but it doesn't matter, as I said, you people rip each other apart on these boards. It serves no logic to post anything.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward I respect yours or anyones opinion But I just can't stand it when some make statemenst that is plain not the truth. If I am not telling the way it is I wish someone would call me out on it. Why won't Dooger make a comment on what Whitney Tower said about it. Heywood Broun plainly said the Derby was not lightning fast. Never heard any credible person said that Belmont was lighnting fast. It never was an issue. Can we have a reasonable debate??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Seattle Slew beat Affirmed when it counted. That's enough for me. His entire TC was more impressive than Affirmed's, though that is mainly because Affirmed had Alydar to press him throughout. Regardless, I put Seattle Slew somewhere in the all time top 5, somewhere close behind Secretariat and Man O War.
iltarion 1 year ago
@iltarion SS track time a Bemont was nearly 3 seconds slower than affirmed and SS had a slower KD time too.They tied in track time at the Preakness but SS was a year older and a better mud runner than affirmed such as this race in 1978 Marlbaro.Affirmed was overall a faster horse.
LittleVinnyCock 9 months ago
@LittleVinnyCock Whatever. When they raced head to head the Slew beat him easily. Scoreboard bro. They raced twice and Slew finished ahead of him in the Marlboro Cup and in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
govrom12 7 months ago
@govrom12 Didn't Affirmed's saddle slip in the JC Gold Cup? You can't count that one. In the Marlboro, Slew was a year older, which does make a difference sometimes, and Affirmed had had a very tough Triple Crown campaign against Alydar, and according to Cauthen, was tired. Slew was relatively lightly raced that year because he got that virus earlier. Also, the other speed, which I think was Sensitive Prince, decided not to run, so Slew got his way on the lead.
flofleming 6 months ago
Dooger- The worthless cancer that has poisoned all the You Tube boards isn't worth the spit from a bad swallow! Don't bother with his infantile and idiotic comments. You should just disable the comment feature so that the scum doesn't crawl up from the ground. He is useless and can only hide behind the computer screen pretending that he has a life.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward I don't know if your calling me worthless cancer or not But eveything I say is backed-up with facts. If 'FACTS' is worthess cancer then the theories here are dead pack meat left out for the buzzers.If anyone Scum comes from talk without jack crap to back it up. What have you got between your teeth??
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Firstly, Dooger, you should just have changed your edit settings so that all comments need to be approved. Secondly, in regards to you Carbro- and the countless people you argue with- you've turned the boards into a cancer. I read countless comments and insults against you, as well as towards you- it's totally idiotic. This is why nobody from the industry bothers with these boards. I would have responded sooner, but I do not bother w/ You Tube.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward If I post something about Secretariat it is quotes from credible people that knows horse racing. Tower. Nack, Arcaro, Hatton, etc. They get pissed off when I do. They even cut these experts down & myself as well. If that is cancer so be it. To me the cancer is one that make statements without facts & its only their opinion. They just can't stand the "Truth' I guess.
Dooger is just a Secretariat hater.. Always claiming those 1973 tracks were freakish fast.Cont.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@HollywoodParkSteward Doogers statements are cancer. Claiming the M.C. race was freakish fast even though Whitney Tower from SI who was there said it was not. I guess Whitney Tower is cancer & no one should believe him. Why in the hell you guys get mad when I post his quote. I'm telling the truth to the Slew lovers. You & others don't want anyone to know it. Censorship is the way you guys want it. Its to protect Slew. You all are cowards.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Back when they used to actually race beyond three, four made a difference
xjungfreud 1 year ago
In any case, I've always believed that a loss is a loss and every race counts, regardless of circumstances. Was Secretariat sick before the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward? A good trainer/owner would have had the sense to scratch the horse. Was Slew too tired after the Belmont? The owner should have listened to the trainer and put him away for the year. Fact is, horse racing is a team sport and it takes the collective efforts of the horse, trainer, owner, and jockey.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 The statement of "a loss is a loss" simply means you lack the ability to discuss a subject further. But I must say that your rationale of ...your horse did something that my horse both didnt and couldnt so therefore your horse is on equal ground with my horse. That is the basic sentiment of nearly all the comments posted here.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge Secretariat went 16 of 21, Slew 14 of 17. Secretariat went 3 of 5 vs. open graded stakes company, 1 of 3 on dirt. Slew went 3 of 5, all on dirt. Secretariat beat a strong field in the Marlboro; Slew defeated two legends in Exceller and Affirmed.
Both are great champions and both had excellent career records, beating several excellent horses along the way. Seattle's beatdowns of Affirmed and Exceller both compare to Secretariat's performance in the Marlboro. It's too close to call.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Again you do not know what you are talking about. Aside from your false coments on SEc...Exceller is not a legend and he defeated Slew in the JGC...in addition Affirmed was 3 YO. Nothing in your commentary boosts Slew. Tell me, with all of the mistakes you have made sofar...tell me about the races that Slew ran at 4YOI...which were G1 races???
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Further on Affirmed...BEATDOWN(S)...plural...a 4YO defeating a 3YO in the MC is nothing to brag about...you compare that to a 3YO beating older horses...irrational...Affirmed was out of contention in the JGC early on ...beat down, please. As stated...your debate is one of dodging and misrepresenting the facts.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Don't you find it amazing a horse could run the Derby in 1:59 2/5 running every 1/4 faster than the last & the last 1/4 was ran in 23 sec. flat?? Slew would have been 14 lengths back. Slew won by 1 1/2 lengths. No camparison there.He beat Slew time in the Preakness by almost 1 second. No camparison there.Do you think Slew could have ran the Belmont in 2:24?? Big Red best Slew time in the M.C. & he was only 3. Slew lose everytime. Nothing Slew did to even compare them.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 You know what my good man. There still chasing Secretariat records even to this day. The only way Slew, MOW, & Citation beats Secretariat is by the excuses they were always 'Eased Up', 'Coasting', won with ears pricking, never went after records, more weight, could had chirp in their ears, 1973 was lightning fast tracks, they had heart & Big Red didn't. What else did I leave out? I have heard it all. Can you come up with another good one better than these?? I can't wait.(smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Secretariat, MOW, Citation, and Slew were all great horses and they won more than their share of races against top-notch competition.
The goal in every horse race is to win the race, and you never need to make any excuses for winning. Seattle Slew won 14 of 17, 3 of 5 against open graded stakes competition, defeating Hall-of-Famers Exceller and Affirmed along the way.
Secretariat won more than his share as well and proved himself as one of the all-time greats.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Slew ran against no one. Exceller is rated as #97 and Affirmed was 3YO. For you to list that as an accomplishment is absurd.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Affirmed & Exceller are the 2 only horses that I know of that were of any substance that Slew ran against. I totally agree Affirmed, Citation & Slew were great horses. No doubt about that. Slew never broke any track or world records. He was a speed horse for the most part at middle distance But mostly always tailed off after that. The M.C. Cup was his best time ever. Him winning only 3 races as a 2 year old & getting horse of the year tells you all about the competition in 1976.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 You are only comparing their win lost record. Slew never had knock your socks off performances like Secretariat did. Far as that goes none in history never came close to his T.C. wins. Still holds the 1:45 2/5 at Belmont Park. Still has after all these yrs. the Derby, Belmont & the Preakness only tied. Where is the comaparison othe than the win/lost record.?? Look at all the champions Big Red won against. No comparison whatsoever between Secretariat & Slew. None at all.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Post TC Sec ran 6 races...ALL GRADE 1 races. It is well documented that Sec had a viral infection and was thought to be done for the year. He ran with this in the Whiteny and never fully recovered, yet he still ran. 3 of these races were 1 1/2 miles and more. 3 of these races were run in 23 days 2 of which were 12 and 1/2 miles. He takes 4 of 6, running in 2 races he should have been scratched from. 4 of the 6 are against older horses...look up the credentials of the MC entrants.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Wr at 1 1/8 miles, track record in the MOW, both with ease. 2:26 and change in a loss in the mud at Belmont. The 1 5/8 mile Canadian Internatrional. 4 races against older horses. A mere 3 pound difference between RR and Sec in the MC. Seattle Slew post TC...Swaps Stakes, Grade 2...loss by 16 lengths, never raced again as a 3YO. 7 races as a 4YO...2 of them ALLOWANCE RACES, 2 of them GRADE 3!!!!!!!!!!! You must be kidding me.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Affirmed at 4 YO went 7-1-1 with 7 wins in a row and with 6 of them rated G1!!! 1:58 and 2/5 carrying 132 pounds. Back to Sec ...21 races in 2 years of racing...more than twice what Slew ran. And whoever heard of a TC champion running chump races at 4YO. Just like the jockey said ".......chumps!!!"
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge Secretariat and Seattle Slew had comparable career accomplishments and deserve to stand alongside as among the greatest horses of all time.
Affirmed, probably a touch below. Neither Secretariat nor Slew would have lost 5 in a row in what was supposed to be the middle of their primes. He got beaten by the chumps twice to start his 4-year-old season. Recovered extremely well, however. Beating Spectacular Bid was his career highlight.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 You continue to make me laugh as to your assertions that Sec and Slew had comparable careers. Your complete retreat to generalized comments that you cant support and even run from is quite entertaining. Your naive attempts to take a portion of a horse's career as defining are hilarious. You flat run away from any detail and speak of "graded races" vs the actualoo grading of the race. These are the thought processes of a person who cant handle truths and analysis.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 For starters, let's talk about how Seattle Slew was raced a mere 3 times at 2YO and a mere 6 times prior to the TC. Sec ran twice that number prior to the TC. Sec is credited by sporswroiters, BloodHorse mag, etc as having run the greatest TC in the history of the sport. Please tell me if you would like the details.Let's also remember that the poster of htis video claims that the 1973 KD was the the track (rated one second slower than the 1964 KD).
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 (con) Further, the poster of this video actually stated that he doubts the time in the 1973 KD not believing that Sham could have run the time that he did. Now we entyer the realm of total absurdity. In a vain attempt to discredit a horse, you simply state you do nto believe the posted time. You see, this is what's called "it is because I say it is". Another distorted thought process.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Back to Affirmed. As always you attempt to use wins and losses to your advantage wihtout dekving into detail and objectively analyzing the races both individually and as a group.To close his 3YO season Affirmed vis DQ'd, 2 lengths behind a 4YO TC Champion and has a slipped saddle in the JGC. As a 4YO he did Slew didnt do. 9 races...all but one G1. You talk about Slew running against great competition, yet run way from the fact that he ran only 3 G1 races as a 4YO.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Affirmed beaten by chumps. Thought process, "failure to qualify. Affirmed started his 4YO career with the Strub seris. Heard of it. Let me see...Slew started his 4YO career with 2 allowance races and a G3. He lost the G3. Who lost to chumps? Not only did Slew lose, but he ran a terrible time of 1:48 after 3/4 at 1;09 and 4/5. Definition...Godawful. With Pincay, Affirmed went 7-0 with 6 G1 victiories. 132 pounds and 158:2/5. 6 G1 wins. No chump g3's and no chump allowances.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Affirmed was a faster horse than Seattle Slew just look at the track times at the big 3 Seattle never bested Affirmed unless you count 1 single race but Aladar had beaten Affirmed too.Secretariat well that horse is one in billion and that Belmont record will Never be broken.
LittleVinnyCock 9 months ago
@DanielSong39 Your right. They shouldn't have raced Secretariat in the Whitney or the Woodward according to Steve Haskins from Bloodhorse. As he stated he was totally unprepared for the Woodward. Still he ran a 2:26 2/5 on a sloppy track & still lost. Does that not tell you what one hell of a horse he was?? Don't you find that amazing. What other horse coud have ran that sloppy track in that time not being trained for it? Slew was a 4 yr. old at his best in the JGC & ran a 2:27 1/5.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
In the end, Secretariat went 16/21 and Seattle Slew went 14/17. Looks pretty similar, with a slight edge in consistency for Slew and slight edge for Secretariat in durability. Secretariat's world record for 1 1/2 miles and success on grass is enough to put him on level terms with Slew, even considering his inferior record vs. open company.
However, it must also be noted that Spectacular Bid consistently went off at lower odds and won more often than either Slew or Secretariat...
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Myself I don't consider a 'Loss' when there is very good reasons why they lost. If they were on equals terms with the competition thats different. We all know Slew was better than Exceller. What insane jockey would put a horse on a insane pace & expect him to win.Slew was running a suicidall race with no fault of his own & if you want to count that as loss thats all right with me But I think different. Same with some of the losses with Big Red & others Look at the whole picture.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 We can continue this discussion in the 1978 Jockey Gold Cup video. However, in that race Slew was simply too keen to go, and even broke through the gate before sprinting the first 6 furlongs, leaving Affirmed and would-be rabbit Life's Hope trailing. I put that more on the trainer than the jockey. Slew was going for the world record for 6 furlongs in a 1 1/2 mile race and there isn't much the jockey can do under those circumstances.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Let's see if I have this straight...Sec mile and a half record and success on turf put him on even keel with Slew??? That is an interesting criteria...you rate a horse equal to another when he performs in a manner that the other cannot. Open company...as a 3YO Sec defeated older horses 3 out of 4 times once setting a WR at a mile and an eighth carrying 3 lbs over scale. As always you either cant qualify your statements...or...when you do you are erroneous and illogical..
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge My argument is that every race counts. Your argument is, "let's rationalize every loss. The horse with the better excuse for his losses is the better horse".
In any case, Secretariat defeated older horses on dirt 1 out of 3 times on dirt, defeating a stellar field in the Marlboro while losing vs. decent field in the Whitney and the Woodward - before finishing his career on grass.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 There is a difference between excuses and qualifiers. Again you dont seem to want to go thtere. Also, try to be factual. Being excusedriven is to limit comparison. Sec did not lose to older horses 2 out of 3 times. That is a false statement. Slew never ran against older horses. Sec ran 4 times...twice on dirt and twice on turf...defeating older horses 3 of 4 times. The MC, WW and MOW were run over period of 23 days. There is nothing in Slews career that compares...
bbmtge 1 year ago
From a handicapping point of view, both Seattle Slew and Secretariat were brilliant and were deserved odds-on favorites in most of their races.
With that said, there were enough chinks in both horses' armor to seriously consider betting against them. Obviously, there were times when the contrarian approach was successful.
Secretariat faced slightly better competition against 3-year-olds and Seattle Slew had more competition vs. open company.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
Seattle Slew was the greatest HORSE of all time. First of all, there is not a horse who could even come close to "Slew" in the breeding shed. He is even more popular for his offspring in which he put on the track. Wait a minute, we all forget he was a triple crown winner too. One more thing. He was the first & ONLY horse to date (2010) to win the triple crown while undefeated. There is not a horse who ever lived who had Seattle Slews' prowess on and off the track.
saratogaken 1 year ago
Slew ran the Belmont in mud.... Secretariat's 3/4 split in the Belmont was faster than Slew's for this race... it can go on and on. as for a fan of Triple Crowns tho, watching the most dominant performance ever in Secretariat's and the only undefeated horse through the Triple Crown in Slew's. pricelessx2
revpgesq 1 year ago
@revpgesq And they were also treated to Affirmed's Triple Crown over the terrific Alydar and Spectacular Bid's ill-fated attempt. We've seen nothing but near misses since then; the most recent being Big Brown, who didn't even bother to finish the Belmont.
Gripping stuff; I hope to see a Triple Crown winner in the near future. And we will see one eventually; let's celebrate it with style when it happens.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
Dr. Fager is a criminally underrated horse who didn't get his due because he did most of his damage against open competition instead of beating up on 3-year-olds. His 1968 season surpasses any single season that Secretariat or Seattle Slew put up.
That's the problem with rating horses. Races vs. open company should carry more weight because there's more competition. Instead, they carry less weight. It's truly mindboggling, but I suppose that's how things work.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
We see this all too often: hotshot 3-year-olds who are tossed aside when they have to face tougher competition. All of the sudden their times get slower, they have to dig in deeper down the stretch and they often fade. Even the legends had their troubles against open company. This race is a classic example of a more developed, experienced, and faster horse laying the beatdown against a young challenger...
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 To paraphrase what you said about 3-year olds getting tossed aside when the have to face tougher competition: We see this all too often that hotshot 3-year olds like Slew are tossed aside when they have to face tougher competition like the 3 year old J.O. Tobin who crushed him by 16 lengths in the Swaps. This race is a classic example of a faster horse laying the beatdown against a challenger of the same age.
sl7293 1 year ago
Another factor most people miss is that the handicap division is generally deeper and stronger than the 3-year-old division. The best horses are often not eligible to run in the classics; that's why winning races like this one is more difficult than winning a Triple Crown race.
It's hard to judge horses based on just the classics. Secretariat looked invincible in winning the Triple Crown, but batted .333 vs. open company on dirt. Affirmed got smashed by Slew and Exceller.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 As you pointed out, it is hard to judge horses based just on the classics. Seattle Slew won the triple crown handily, but he got trounced in "open company" by JO Tobin, Dr. Patches, Exceller, Affiliate, and Text.
sl7293 1 year ago
It's senseless to respond to every post. The group of Secretariat worshippers and time obsessed handicappers would have picked Affirmed handily in this race. That's all you need to know to evaluate their proclamations. Affirmed ran the Derby and Belmont much faster than Slew. He beat Alydar, not Run Dusty Run. Therefore Affirmed will dominate Slew. It's indeed a simple bar stool mindset, one that bookies love. When all you can see is the obvious, essentially you can't see anything.
AwsiDooger 1 year ago 4
@AwsiDooger You have no evidence to back up your claim that a disproportionate number of Secretariat "worshippers" as you describe them would have picked Affirmed to win over Slew. For all you or anyone else knows so-called Sec worshippers may have been less inclined to favor Affirmed over Slew than the population at large. Even though I have no data to back this up, I would guess that a majority of Sec worshippers picked Slew to defeat J.O. Tobin. What is your point anyway?
sl7293 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger You Slew lovers want to call his Derby win the best ever. I never in my life hear one sportswriter or any horse racing expert ever compare that race even close to what Big Red done. We all know how Secretariat electrifed the crowd & thousand around the world in his Derby win. Still untouched. You won't admit it will you? Slew was hit at least 11 times down the strecth in the Derby much like Sham was. Slew loses by 14 lengths. Woodie Broun said that track was not lightning fast.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger Its a good thing you were not a sportswriter for some horse magazine. You would be fired the first day & be the laughing stock of the horse racing world. They might even admit you to a insane asylum.(smile) I can back up my statements from the experts of what they said not speculation & theories like you do. You won't tell Affirmed was found to have a throat infection the next day & point out he was a 3 year old. If the shoe was on the other foot you would. Tell all the story.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger Its a good thing you were not a sportswriter for some horse magazine. You would be fired the first day & be the laughing stock of the horse racing world. They might even admit you to a insane asylum.(smile) I can back up my statements from the experts of what they said not speculation & theories like you do. You won't tell Affirmed was found to have a throat infection the next day & point out he was a 3 year old. If the shoe was on the other foot you would.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger Actually, Affirmed went off at better odds that sSew based on Slews previous performance. I dont think that it was Sec fans who set the odds before this race. Further to brag about a champion 4YO beating a champion 3YO is ludicrous. As always, ytou twist and turn and misrepresent. You have to in order to keep up your so-called commentary.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger When Affirmed won in 1978- it was the finest crop of three year olds that I had ever watched on the track at one time- 1973 would be second. In '78 you have three horses that in almost ANY other year would have won the Triple Crown- Affirmed, Alydar and Believe It. You had another that going into the Derby was undefeated- a speed demon- Sensitive Prince. I almost any Derby this past decade- he would have been a solid favorite.
HollywoodParkSteward 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger U R ABSLTLY RIGHT! i would pick AFFIRMED 10/10 times, senseless arguments, i can't make sense of EASY GOER losing to SUNDAY SLNC (derby, preak) then going a 2:26 blmnt stks, what the hell made SEC run a 2:24 belmont unencouraged etc... endless "what the hells". handicappers share our shoes "we r all handicapped attempting to discern a horses state on race day". appreciate the past w/out the screaming posts, hope for a memorable future. SEC fans relax all r aware of his accomplshmnts
thunder2688 1 year ago
@thunder2688 I am relaxed as a kitten on a hot summer day my good man. So was Big Red in his Marlboro Cup win. He was ridden out in his race. 'Ridden Out' means he was not asked for maximum speed. How many times Slew was hit with the whip in this race? I counted 5 times with the right hand. Was he hit with the left any? Can't quite tell. 'Hit with the Whip' is asking for maximum speed. Read Sharles Hatton article 1974 DRM stating Big Red was clocked 'Pullin Up' at the 1 1/4 post in 1:57 4/5.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@thunder2688 I am sure not everyone is aware of all his accomplishments my good man and some even deny them when proof is shown. Its not cutting down the great Slew at all. Seems like no Slew or The Bid fans never comment on Big Red's accomplishments in his fast 'Blow Outs'. Wouldn't you even say those fast fractions he ran in 'MUD' in 45 2/5, 572/5, 1:09 1/5, 1:21 3/5 and 1:34 flat for a mile is one dummdinger of a 'Blow Out'? Remember, a 'Blow Out' is a 'Work Out' not asking for Maximum speed
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@thunder2688 Check these fractions out 6 days after his record Derby win. 11, 2/5, 11 1/5, 12, 10 1/5 and 12 4/5. Thats 57 flat for 5 furlongs. Check out that 10 1/5 4th furlong ran. Laurin noted he was not wearing blinkers & he would have went 56 flat with blinkers. Chick Lang quoted DRF clocker Frank Robertson to the effect the colt's half was the fastest he ever timed on the Old Hilltop. Pretty good wouldn't you say? Just another accomplishment he had without asking for 'Maximum' speed.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@thunder2688 Gee good buddy. Many horses lose the Derby & Preakness but have beaten horses in the Belmont that have won both the Derby & Preakness.Many horses run a 1 1/2 mile better than others. The Big Easy was just one of them.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Luckily Secretariat was not as fragile or paranoid as some of his biggest fans. It's definitely the weakest fan base I've ever encountered. They swarm en masse to videos or message boards when his dominance is questioned, tag team posting and refusing to let go until they've posted dozens of consecutive comments. I've seen it repeatedly on YouTube and elsewhere. Then somehow they think they shouldn't be called out on it, even though it's obviously coordinated. LOL.
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger The reason we swarm on these videos is not because we are Slew haters but to read the outrageous statements guys & gals like you make that Slew was better or as good as Secretariat. You hate 'Times Ran' because your horse lose. You look at Big Red defeats & he had no reasons at all why he lost to hear it from you & others. No excuses for him But plenty for Slew. Want to convinced many Big Red ran on lightning fast tracks which is a total Lie. We set the record straight..
rscarbro100 1 year ago
Secretariat was a great horse who beat up on a fairly decent 3-year-old class. Sham was a decent horse but let's not compare him to Easy Goer, Alydar, or even Bet Twice. Forego was probably the best of the bunch but he was a late-bloomer.
Against older horses on dirt, he won 1 of 3 races on dirt. He ran a game second to Onion and Prove Out, but also beat a very strong field in the Marlboro. He would finish his career with a couple of grass races.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
i was at Belmont Park for this race and i remember Affirmed was around 4-5 and Slew was near 5-2 coming off his loss against Dr Patches. My Dad saw Slew come onto the track and Cordero could barely hold him in the post parade. My Dad who rarely played chalk said son, theres no way this horse is losing today and put $100 to win on Slew.
thelongshot99 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 Slew proved who was best in this race. Good thing your dad bypassed the chalk Affirmed and put the money on Slew. The race itself was no contest.
Slew was absolutely on the same level as Secretariat and his performances prove it. Just look at the quality of competition and how easily he dusts them - in this case, a Triple Crown winner. Final time is a LOUSY way of determining the quality of the horse. You have to look at the races!
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Qualify your statement. Which performances of Slew compare with Sec??? Can't wait for this one. BTW you are aware that Affiremd was 3YO in this race.Again, cantr wait!!!
bbmtge 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 I think Affirmed was the only champion horse Slew ever ran against. Am I right? If you want to talk about competition then look at Secretariat M.C. win. What other horse ever beat 4 champions in one race?? Exceller won 15 of 33 races. Was in the hall of fame but was not a champion of anything. Slew never proved he was on the same level as Secretariat. Only in your mind but not in 'FACTS'. Your trying to compare a 4 year old against a 3 year old as well. Big Red still wins.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@rscarbro100 Seattle Slew's record shows several similarities to Secretariat's. Both had one inexplicable flop race as a 3-year-old (Swaps, Wood). Both won the Triple Crown, but lost two races vs. open company. As for the competition... I think Exceller & Affirmed compare favorably to anyone Secretariat ever faced. I'd rather face the four champions in one race than having to face Exceller and Affirmed time and time again.
DanielSong39 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Exceller did not compare with 'Prove Out'. Why did you leave him out? He still holds the record for the 2nd fastest 1 1 /2 mile on dirt in a 2:25 4/5 time. A time Slew & Exceller never approached. Slew never came close to the 4 yr. old Riva Ridge world record a 1 3/16 mile in 1:52 2/5. Still not been beaten to this day. He done it at 4 years of age. Slew beat a 3 yr. old Affirmed that beat the great Bid. Affirmed better at 4 & his belt did not slip that day either. (smile)
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Slew ran a 3 year old Affirmed & Big Red a 4 year old Riva Ridge. Big Red also ran agianst Prove Out who out performed Exceller by lengths. .Raced against Sham who out performed Slew in the Derby & Preakness. both were records as well. Slew just did not have the competition like Big Red did. I will say Exceller & Affirmed were no doubt great competiton But not quite like Big Red had to go up against.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 Final time isn't the only factor in assessing the quality of a horse, but it most certainly factors into the equation. Quite frankly, if Slew and Secretariat could have competed against one another in the Belmont, I don't think Seattle Slew runs 2:23 and change to defeat Sec. Sec passed the 1 1/4 mile mark of that race in 1:59 while Slew never managed to run a single sub 2 min 1 1/4 mile race in his entire career.
sl7293 1 year ago
@sl7293 Correction: Seattle Slew did run a sub 2 minute time at the Swaps, but that was on one of those West Coast tracks where sub 2 minute times were fairly common.
sl7293 1 year ago
@DanielSong39 If Slew proved, as you claim, that he was a better horse than Affirmed by defeating him in the Marlboro, does it follow that J.O. Tobin is a better horse than Slew because he defeated him by 16 lengths in the Swaps? Alternatively, is it more reasonable to say that you cannot judge the quality of one horse relative to another purely on the basis of one race?
sl7293 1 year ago
Slew was an undefeated Triple Crown winner. i think the only other horse to do that was Man O War. And Im glad you mentioned the Ky Derby. Even racing novices know Slew had a very poor break at the gate yet somehow got near the lead into the first turn. watch Slew run off the tv screen in the 1977 Flamingo. Look at the quality of the field he dominated-Affirmed, Cox's Ridge, Upper Nile, all very good. And for my time friends Darby Creek Rd held the Spa record at 7f.
thelongshot99 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 Yes, Slew 6-0 going into the Derby. 6 races.!!! Also, please tell me more about MOW's TC. Can't wait!!!
bbmtge 1 year ago
i dont know else to say. Best horse i ever saw and i didnt see Big Red. Psychos keep posting time which is stupid and what u get in jail. Slew would rip the heart out of any horse that challenegd him on the lead. To the time morons- How fast was the Easy Goer-Sunday Silence KY Derby? I think 206 but were they that bad?Their Belmont and Preakness was a "tad" faster.
thelongshot99 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 You & others love to talk about Slew fast fraction times in his races But fall way short of even mentioning his final times which show the true measure of a horse Not how fast he ran before he got there to the line. Watch some Secretariat videos & you might learn something about 'SPEED' before you call people stupid, idiots or morons. He ran until his tongue hung out in the K.Y. Derby begin whipped at least 11 times & ended up with a 2:02 1/5 finish.
rscarbro100 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 Again qualify your statements. What was Slew's record as a 4YO in major races, not allowances. What was Bid and Affirmed's records as 4YO. Again, major races. Can't wait.
bbmtge 1 year ago
never said slew was better than Secretariat. what i did say was that if they ran at 1m to 1/1/8 miles my loot would be on Slew. I will never comment on Big Red cause i never saw him race. You idiots that dont think Slew was the real deal are insane. You want time- Slew ran the Marlboro in 145.8. Enuf with time morons.
thelongshot99 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 Put your foot in your mouth much???? Sec, not fully recovered from his viral infection, ran his MC as a 3YO. He set the world record and defeated older horses. The video is vailable on youtube.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 Sooooooooooo watch Sec on youtube. I saw them all in the 60's and 70's. No contest.
bbmtge 1 year ago
Slew holds no world records. He couldn't even break any one of Secretariat's track records. He would have even lost to Sham in the Kentucky Derby, given Sham's time. That makes him slower than Sham. When Secretariat set all 3 TC track records..everything else is just conversation. Otherwise, another horse in the last 37 years would have beaten ANY of his TC track records..hasn't happened. Sec. set the standard for all horse racing. We'll never see supernatural greatness like Secretariat again.
cmf4321 1 year ago
Secretariat was a dominant horse who proved it in the Classics. Dr. Fager dodged the Triple Crown despite not suffering a serious injury. Dr. Fager defeated Damascus in April then avoided risk at Louisville because his connections knew he was one dimensional and couldn't be rated in top company with big fields at classic distances. They claimed a knee injury then immediately ran in the Withers on May 13. Dr. Fager then avoided the Preakness and Belmont despite winning the Withers in record time.
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger All comments are innuendo. It fits your style and the very thing you complain about in others. You are a mere hypocrite and avoid facts at all cost.
bbmtge 1 year ago
@bbmtge
Secretariat definitely wins in number of fans who desperately post 6 or 7 consecutive comments on unrelated videos. LOL. Camp out and whine.
Seattle Slew is not fast enough. That's a delirious opinion. I almost fell over in a seizure of laughter when you claimed Slew couldn't handle a rapid 3/4. Slew and Cormorant set record fractions at 1:09 4/5 in the Preakness. Cormorant wilted, even though he had the inside post while Slew broke from the far outside against a severe track bias.
AwsiDooger 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger The "classics" as you call them are not the only races where horses prove themselves. If that were the case, horses like Kelso and Forego would not be ranked in the top 10 and ahead of Seattle Slew. Contrary to what you say, Dr Fager did run classic distances against tough opponents. He ran 1 1/4 mile races against arch rival Damascus finishing under 2 minutes three times while carrying up to 135 lbs. He is also ranked ahead of Seattle Slew and deservedly so in my opinion.
sl7293 1 year ago
@AwsiDooger It is true that Dr Fager could not be rated, but that would not have been a problem in triple crown where double entries, with one horse entered as a rabbit, are almost non-existent. There are only 3 horses that ever finished in front of Dr F in a race & all of them did so as double entries that included a rabbit entered to burn him out. These 3 included all time greats Damascus and Buckpasser. The 3rd horse was 2 yr old horse of the year Successor who defeated Dr Fager at age 2.
sl7293 1 year ago
i never saw DR Fager but if anyone was favored over Seattle Slew my loot would be on the 'Slew. In a 3 horse mega race i would bet Forego. People dont realize what a great sprinter he was.
The sad part is we havent seen a horse as good as these in the past 30 years. Sunday Silence was close but not as good as these.
thelongshot99 1 year ago
@thelongshot99 On what performance of Seattle Slew's would you base this opinion???
bbmtge 1 year ago
This race, I always thought, did a great job at giving an example of how an awesome 4yr.old that won the Triple Crown is a bit stronger and faster than an awesome 3yr.old that won the Triple Crown. That extra year, going into their 4yr.old campaigns, really does make them bigger and stronger yet again. Most think the 4yr.old season is when a colt is at peak racing level, or at least should be.
GBeret83 1 year ago