John Piper - Should Christians take antidepressants?

[ofmiceandmaggie]

With use of anti-depressants, I was actually able to find God. When I was in the midst of my depression, I was unable to see clearly or think rationally about anything. Before my depression, I was a strong Christian; during it, my faith virtually disappeared. When I started taking medication for it, I was put into a mindset where I could set down and read my Bible and actually desired to get close to God. My faith was restored. Whoever says a Christian should not take anti-depressants is wrong.

[danielkirk1]

@candiceevans1 Nice to see someone who finally understands how the devil works. Just watch out my friend, soon you're gonna have to get a mechanics degree to tell someone they have a flat tire... LOL. Let's wake up and realize there is something out there that knows how to swindle us, and we should wake up and realize everything the devil offers you isn't for the temporary. Actually if the devil has a mental disorder, it would be psychopathy.

[Hufflewaffle]

how can anyone take this seriously?

[Birdieupon]

@Hufflewaffle

"how can anyone take this seriously?"

You've not told us what your objection is, so it's hard to answer your question.

[danielkirk1]

@Hufflewaffle What was the point of this comment? How can anyone take you seriously?

[Hufflewaffle]

@danielkirk1 You don't have to take me seriously or not. I'm not the theologian dishing out medical and psychological advice.

[danielkirk1]

@Hufflewaffle What does that have to do with anything? So you need a P.H.D to give some advice about drugs, and psychology issues? You sound like you'd be a fantastic parent with that logic. That's right you're not the theologian, that's why you ask everyone here that believes "how can anyone take this seriously?", because you're too self-important to understand serious things. Bye.

[Hufflewaffle]

@danielkirk1 "So you need a P.H.D to give some advice about drugs, and psychology issues?"

If you want to be taken seriously, yes you do.

[danielkirk1]

@Hufflewaffle I'm having trouble taking YOU seriously. I have been taken seriously about these things, and I've helped many! And I always suggest professionals in these feilds too. You're logic is if you can't A, then B won't happen until you get C. It's not always like that! Humans can do many things without a PhD my friend.

[danielkirk1]

@danielkirk1 sorry your logic not you're.

[Hufflewaffle]

@danielkirk1 Sorry but he is making a mockery of the people who have applied their life to this very specialized work. Theologians are NOT equipped to advise on things like antidepressants or psychotherapy particularly to people who are in real distress and need real help, christian or not. There are some things that require not only a compassionate heart but a proper education and training. You can get on a plane with a theologian in the cockpit if you wish, but not me nor anyone I care about.

[danielkirk1]

@Hufflewaffle Oh knock it off please. No one will be harmed if I Advise things that I've experienced myself to help with these issues. Everyone does it all the time, and so they should(in the real world not the textbook). Did i not tell you that i advise the people i help to a go to a professional? (if they need it). I've helped people beat smoking,drinking, immoral thinking. I've also spent most my time with the deaf. DONT TELL ME HOW TO HELP PEOPLE.

[Hufflewaffle]

@danielkirk1 Sorry what? I have absolutely no idea who you are or how you 'help people'. I commented on a video of John Piper clumsily trying to advise people on serious psychological/medical issues by saying ludicrous things like: 'if I take a sip of water does that mean I am not relying on God?' and 'I produce stuff in my brain by jogging'.

And if you really think no one can be harmed by this type of 'advice' then you also, clearly, have no real experience of the matter.

[danielkirk1]

@Hufflewaffle Relate:

"Sorry what? I have absolutely no idea who you are or how you 'help people'"

with

"And if you really think no one can be harmed by this type of 'advice' then you also, clearly, have no real experience of the matter."

You judge my ability to help people even though you don't know me from a bar of soap. Forget Piper, you do NOT need a PhD to help people with mental or habitual problems! It's just elitist garbage.

[49jubilee]

...cont....i know depressions exist but sometimes i wonder about some of these meds, since the doctor or psychiatrist cant take blood samples and check the same way they can diabetes. ....i trust these meds could work though i also wonder about our diets...people used to say eat fishoil for brain..cod liver etc.and i thought it was for 'smarts'

[49jubilee]

i heard about pregnant mothers taking antidepressants and their babies are having birth defects. the doctors didnt tell these women NOT TO and now they are suing the companies. How come the OB/GYNs tell them not to take zoloft etc! whats causing these depessions? is it our modern life?stress because things are happening at a more rapid rate? i know teenagers who think time is flying..i didnt feel that way until at least 25

[SONICROKS1989]

I take zoloft and the pentecostal church made me think i shouldnt bc God supposedly wants everyone healthy.I like this video it sheads light on the healing subject.The pentecostals are dangerous in their teachings on this and im on my meds again and i living a better life

[macrent2]

She might as well have asked if taking insulin or diabetic medications is a failure to rely on God! How would God disprove of someone taking a life saving medication?

[preachyification1]

That's very compassionate & yet you warn people not to alter their minds unless they have a problem.

[voyagersystem]

Satan loves altered mind states created by trance, music, meditation, yoga and drugs. We don't need drugs to reach Jesus. Jesus reaches us. We need faith.

[voyagersystem]

Psychiatric drugs kill people. They also open people up to demonic oppression.

[ilikezappa]

No ,they should take Cyanide

[ilikezappa]

Before you take an antidepressant you should at least be aware that modern medicines are developed from an understanding of biological processes ,and would not work if an understanding of evolution was the central core of this scientific advancement. Go ahead ,take an antidepressant. Modern science can relieve suffering , but dont you dare start quoting the book of Genesis, which is absolutely incompatible with it.

[LandfillShite]

Oh you piece of shit. Why even debate it? Who wants to be in such a horrible and dark place? One tablet every morning can increase a person's quality of life.

[widemanoranges]

Yes, this is true...but we must know that we are human and the body gets ill at times...Please know that He did not make us dumb..we pray for wisdom and He gives it to us. The ppl that are talking about she is not saved b/c she is on antidepressant...are they willing to go to work for her and take care of her family if she stops?

[FToniS]

Paul recommended Timothy to drink a little wine for his frequent stomach ailments.

[vrghiks]

Christians should trust God,not pills!

[AussieGossie]

The longer John talks the more I can see just how deep his grandiose delusion is... Not one person can handle all the truths in the bible from each intended perspective. He has deceived himself into believing that there is a perfect "kingdom" awaiting us but ignores the fact that we imperfect beings will never be worthy enough to dine with the Lord. No matter what we do we humans need to get it in our heads that there was never a plan for us to be promoted to a greater place.

[mkittyy]

Is this guy seriously legit? what the actual fuck. He's talking SO much shit.

[margovallen]

God made lots of things that are turned into.. or made into medicinal value. Things get out of hand for those of whom are over the top with their extremism. It gets out of hand. God gave us a brain... and He gave us medicine and doctors.

Some of the questions asked of this guy are pretty ridiculous.. yet, it's amazing just how many feel the need to inquire of such issues.

[hellokitty35100]

good point..

[tykomike]

thats rediculous soo rediculous, God commanded us to eat and to drink. when he created the world he created FOOD and created WATER....Man created these drugs to induce a fake sense of being okay....do you really think taking chemicals every day will help you...how about you eat completely raw and live a proper dietary life and you wont need to take asprin.....with anti depressents God can obviously heal you and he said "jesus cam to bring life and life to the full" and we are healed just pray

[serioussi]

@tykomike Ignorant comment. All things are still made from things of the earth where else do the chemicals come from? Space? Who made the chemicals for medicine? Get real man.

[tykomike]

thats rediculous god commands us to eat as well as sleep

[Jack1946geboren]

Yes, I've caught 'piperosis,' an insidious, life-destroying disease. I suspected his god [God] dabbles in pharmacology, since he [He] hawks OTC nostrums like Eternal Life, Forgiveness of Sin, Misery on Earth, Holy War, & sundry Acts of God (typhoons, earthquakes, plane disasters, &c). Piper's right: most Rx anti-depressants don't work very well and have side effects. I agree physical exercise, cognitive therapy and 'getting a life' work better. I doubt praying & praise-shouting help at all.

[punksush1]

Society is the both the cause and the cure for environmental depression.

[fruitofspirit]

Praise the LORD! This is why I love Dr. Piper so much. I've had bipolar disorder since I was 14 years old. I am now 40. I used Lithium for 25, but it stopped working for me in May of last year and I had a horrible psychotic/ manic episode. It has taken a year to find the right medications, but the LORD was with through out it all. And I love his comparison to the bottle of water - praise God!

[bigoldfashen]

Oh my goodness man. Read what I am saying. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with taking medication if you have a legitimate chemical imbalance. What % of depressed people actually have a legitimate imbalance? I'm saying that for anyone who claims to be a Christian and is depressed that is as bad as a Christian that is openly gay. It's not consistent with God. God gave ALL of us freewill. Did Elijah need to take medication? No, he did not have a chemical imbalance.

[MRKetter81]

@bigoldfashen Really? So I guess the psalms are full of writers that are as bad as being openly gay.

You sir are a MORON.

Isaiah 53

3 "He was despised and rejected by men; a man of SORROWS, and acquainted with GRIEF;

and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

[prairiemark]

Nyquil is 40 proof alcohol!

[legalbeagle26]

I just get angry when people make such asinine statements like I need to be delivered, or exorcised, or whatever the latest buzzword for casting out demons is because I was born with a chemical imbalance in my brain that causes a wide range of symptoms. Like I said (blame the devil or the victim.) And these youtubers with no medical education whatsoever are are counseling folks that come on here and listen to them and might say "gee Im gonna go off all my meds"

[prairiemark]

@legalbeagle26 The type of people you speak of are "The village idiots of the Christian faith." They have limited knowledge and limited compassion. God have mercy on their miserable souls.

[fredphellipssdriver]

This guy is old. He likes to be heard. And, frankly, after I watch this video, I, like about 99.99999% of all people, will pretty much forget everything he said. He is from the south (all right wing protestant ministers are, go figure) and he probably has never read anything the Catholic Church has written. He does not like any protestant minister not from the south - bell, warren, any one. Typical redneck hater. If I met him at church I would tell him to go screw himself.

[bigoldfashen]

Cancer or a broken leg are physical problems. Depression and anxiety are mental problems. HUGE difference. Cancer has nothing to do with a Christian's character or faith. You don't get Cancer from a lack of faith but many Christians end up depressed due to a lack of faith. There is also a difference between someone who is temporarily depressed and someone who is living a lifestyle of depression.

This doesn't address antidepressants just the straw man arguments that some are making

[prairiemark]

@bigoldfashen Neurological illnesses are PHYSICAL illnesses......seizure disorders, clinical depression, bipolar, or schizophrenia all have a physical basis. You dont get them due to a lack of faith or because of "bad character" as you imply. We need to get out of the middle ages!

[bigoldfashen]

@prairiemark Many people end up depressed due to a lack of faith. What's more depressing than separating yourself from God? Some people probably do have chemical imbalances but not all of them. There are Christians that are depressed because they have distanced themselves from God. Is it possible to be depressed AND be walking with the Lord as we should? No. Look at Elijah. he got depressed because he was lacking in faith (and he didnt have to take pills to get better).

[prairiemark]

@bigoldfashen You say...."Is it possible to be depressed and be walking with the Lord as we should? No"

That is an ignorant and dangerous statement to make. Many people who are depressed become suicidal when they quit their medications. What prompts you to make a statement like that?

[asilvermountzion1983]

Saying that Christians shouldn't take antidepressants is like saying christian diabetics shouldn't take insulin... it's absurd. The brain is an organ just like any other part of the body and it should be treated just like any other part of the body. Of course, you take take antidepressants because you are "sad"; clinical depression is an ongoing, uncontrollable thought pattern that can not be willed away and (for me) it's coupled with crippling fatigue. God never called us to be ignorant.

[bassmastablasta]

How come nobody considers what they eat as a cause of their depression? I have seen first hand the depression that a bad diet can bring. Eating foods that aren't nourishing to the body, that don't provide essential nutrients and fats can cause great harm to your body and your mental state. God designed our bodies to operate a certain way and when you overdose it with processed foods and chemicals your body will suffer. If your interested in good healthy eating check out the book The Makers Diet.

[prairiemark]

@bassmastablasta There have been many scientific studies on the relationship of diet and depression. The results are inconclusive. You should always eat right and take care of your body. General good health tends to improve ones outlook. But generally you cannot "cure" neurological illnesses with diet.

[blkimes]

I used to suffer from depression. I was on 300mg of Effexor for 2 years. It wasn't until God brought me to see, through reading the bible and learning more about HIM, that my depression was solely based on self pity, self-absorbtion, and just "SELF" that I was able to completely stop taking my medication because my depression was a SIN- based on idoltry and failure to see God as my absolute everything, even in my times of pain. When I saw GOD as my comforterer and my ONLY Idol...I was HEALED.

[prairiemark]

@blkimes I am glad you were healed. It is something to be thankful for. But what about the person who is reading their Bible and growing and a Christian and has a ''Chemical imbalance'' that responses to medication,and whose disease gets worse when they are off of it?

[lightbrownpoop]

i went on anti-depressants only to find out the deep cause of my depression/anxiety was really just wrong thinking habits my whole life. low self-esteem and insecurity. anti-depressants didn't help me, changing my mind did. i still get depression and anxiety from time to time (as everyone does) but not nearly as bad as it used to be. learn to counter negative thoughts and emotions...it's not easy, but alot of people just meditate on whatever garbage pops into their minds without realizing it.

[ourgenerationisdumb]

Please read a book or two before you comment on this topic. Seriously. It's one of those issues people think they know about because they've simply thought about it, or because their opinion feels right to them. Do some actual research before you open your mouth.

[prairiemark]

@ourgenerationisdumb You are right. Sometimes people like to post their opinions and read them even if they are uneducated opinions.

[Apemano]

America must look hard though at the level of ant-depressants that are being used in the US, vs the rest of the world. Try some things first. Diet - drop the junk food, drink only water (pretty much), exercise and get plenty of rest. Bad diet and exercise can cause depression. Secondly look at repenting of pride. Pride is at the core of some depression. Depression can be spiritual in its attack. But there is also a medical condition.........

[legalbeagle26]

At the risk of sounding uncharitable, All of you who think those of us with mental illness and who take medication, don't have enough faith can go FUCK YOURSELVES!

[prairiemark]

@legalbeagle26 I wouldn't use the same words, I hold the same opinion as you do. These are a bunch of kooks who don't know what they are talking about.

[legalbeagle26]

@prairiemark I got carried away with my language and I apologize for that. It just makes me so mad at these people who think that once they become Christians that their life will be free of problems and that they won't suffer. Then again I really don't like John Piper's hyper extreme calvinism that has no wiggle room for anything that doesn't agree with it. As a person with mental illness, I get angry with people blaming the victim (people tend to blame the victim with alot of things.)

[legalbeagle26]

@prairiemark One final thought It is a felony to practice or give medical advice without a license. The only person who needs to be telling or suggesting anything medical is a medical professional. You come to me or my attorney if you have a legal question (Im a legal assistant) you go to a nurse or a doctor for medical questions. Jesus does save you and I believe in all that, BUT its dangerous, and down right mean to tell people all they need is to pray more!

[prairiemark]

@legalbeagle26  It is illegal to practice medicine without a license. However our system allows for a lot of freedom of expression. If someone believes something kooky and unscientific they are generally allowed to express their opinion about it. I am not sure we would want it anyother way. It is illegal for a nurse to practice medicine or a legal assistant to do duties allowed only to be done by lawyers too. We can express our thoughts pretty freely on boards like this without impunity

[tmckinley409]

John Piper is 100% correct on his statement, not ignorant. The people who justify being in bondage to medication. You are the hypocrites. But once again the bondage is what matters here, not if you simply take the pills just be careful of becoming addicted.

[tmckinley409]

People take anti-depressants to feel normal. A chemical imbalance can be fixed with Jesus Christ, he heals, and drugs makes things worse. Of course were going to go to the doctor if we have cancer or break our legs, but were also not going to get addicted to the drugs they give us which result in us being dependent on these pills for the rest of our lives.

[legalbeagle26]

@tmckinley409 and where did you and your idiot friend who told people not to take their meds go to Medical school. You should be ashamed, telling people not to take their medication. Should my friend who killed himself who heard voices, just have "prayed harder" You should be in jail for advocating and peddling such garbage! SCREW YOU!

[MichaelKeating2001]

I'm going to assume that John doesn't understand how SSRIs work and how they're prescribed by his answer since he didn't address either one Biblically.

There has never been any science that shows chemical imbalances leading to depression. For more on this please read "Will Medicine Stop the Pain" by Elyse Fitzpatrick and Laura Hendrickson.

Even secular doctors are now agreeing that these drugs are often more harm than good.

[nedmorlef]

the last generation is passing by. The olive tree has bloomed. that generation shall not pass away before all things be fulfilled. don't get addicted to any man made medicines unless you want to beg them from the antichrist.

[jbjb9402]

I'm very similiar to the woman he talks about at the end. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I had racing thoughts that I just couldn't shut off. Now I am more relaxed, I sleep better, I actually am able to read the bible and concentrate on the things of God and seeking holiness where I couldn't before. I hate the fact that I need medication to function at a normal level, but I guess I'm one of those people who needs them.

[simplythebest444]

I don't think it's wrong to take medicine but I don't think that gives us an excuse to be sick. We have to claim our healing in Jesus name. Remember death and life are in the power of the tongue. Don't say something bad about yourself if you don't want to have it. By Jesus stripes I am healed!

[IamThinkin]

I really respect how Pastor John really thinks about each of the questions.

[BrianJ1962]

@TruthfulChristian

I'm confused...

Do you mean there's a difference between 'people' and 'Christians' (which there obviously isn't)?

Or are you implying that Christians, somehow, will never be put into the position whereby they have a need for them to be prescribed?

Or is this simply an admonition against recreational use of anti-depressants by Christians? (is there such a thing?)

I certainly agree they shouldn't be taken without a medical need & I doubt anyone would seriously disagree. :-)

[BrianJ1962]

An excellent, well balanced & reasoned answer.

I think anyone would agree that, although one shouldn't run to these and other drugs in the first instance, nor should they rely on them long-term - everyone is different, biologically & psychologically.

So whatever appropriate remedy available to aleviate pain, resolve 'physical' ailment and extend life that may be required - I say thank you.

Unfortunately I am unable to take such remedies due to their side effects.

So one finds other ways; lol

[MichaelKeating2001]

@BrianJ1962 Really not a balanced or reasoned answer since it ignores the volumes of science that say how dangerous these things are. He pretended like it's a net sum zero issue - take the drugs with no side effects or don't take the drugs with no side effects. Unfortunately that's not the question and he should have graciously bailed on it or deferred to someone who's studied it.

[BrianJ1962]

@MichaelKeating2001

Hey, for a pastor this was "reasoned" and "balanced" response - but, as you point out, not "complete"; as he doesn't address the 'side effects' issues (which is the reason I can't take pain-killers; despite an obvious need).

However, the way you phrase it, these "volumes of science" would seem to cite ALL "these things" as "dangerous" - which, again, they clearly aren't - indeed, "science" endeavours to make them safer with every scrap of research.

For a pastor - good answer.

[THEGROUND21]

Stop!........How are you going compare water that god made us to have to medication that man made........horrible way of thinking

[Bmarch08]

@THEGROUND21 Totally missed the point he was trying to make

[enslaved2God]

Anyone who makes a blanket statement that it's wrong for Christians to take antidepressants is not only ignorant of the fact that some people, even Christians, have chemical imbalances that aren't only mental but physical issues that can be greatly helped by medication, but they are also hypocrites, seeing that, God forbid, if they broke their leg or had cancer, they would go to a doctor and be treated.

[WorshipInTruth]

@enslaved2God Those chemical imbalances are caused by destructive thought patterns. Antidepressants do nothing but further mess with the brains inner chemistry and create even more destructive thought patterns. The whole idea of antidepressants to me represents a sort of "defeatism". You read up on how harmful they are. There are other options for people suffering "depression". The devil loves dumbing down our populations which such substances.

[WorshipInTruth]

@enslaved2God You are going to compare being upset and not being able to obtain that selfish hedonistic "pleasure feeling" with a true health issue like cancer or a broken limb? To me your worldview is not Christian. Get off the meds, put faith in God, reflect on Scripture. I do not want to sound like a hypocrit because I will occasionally "self medicate" but I think even the occassion drink will be less harmful then being constantly doped up on prescription meds.

[WorshipInTruth]

@enslaved2God If you are taking anti-depressants then take my advice and get off them. Modern society treats everybody who is disillusioned with this fallen world as if they were a nut case, don't let them. You are not, supposed to try to avoid adversity, the Christian response would be to tackle your "depression" head on and without the use of mind altering substances. Pray for the Ghost in the name of Iesus.

[Ryno706]

@enslaved2God I totally appreciate your fervent position but I strongly suggest you study Revelations about how they would not repent of their sorceries. The original word is from the greek pharmakaei where we get the word pharmacy. PM me for more info, trust me on this I used to have PTSD and the Holy Spirit is with you through any period of time. God Bless

[prairiemark]

@Ryno706 The greek word for pharmacy means "drugs with enchantments" not just drugs. A lot of satanic spiritualism has a drug using component....vison quests with peyote and so forth. The Bible in no way condemns the use of pharmaceuticals.

[bigoldfashen]

@enslaved2God comparing Cancer to depression is silly. Lack of faith doesn't cause cancer. Lack of faith frequently and commonly leads to anxiety and depression. I don't necessarily disagree with people taking anti-depressants, though I think it's wrong to be fully dependent upon them, I just disagree with the comparison between cancer and anxiety.

[Aragond68]

Good answer, John.

imho, There's no singular binary answer for everyone, nor one that lasts for all the days of our lives, but he's expressing some basic, useful principles.

[NightcastMinistries]

I was forced onto them by the government at the age of 17 after a suicide attempt (second in less than a month). During my time in the institution, I was saved. However, I remained on Zoloft for another 2 years at the orders of the doctor, my parents, and my own personal choice. God used them to contain my issues, and eventually relieve my spirit of them. Like Piper said, one should not hasten to get on them, but there's nothing wrong with taking them when it becomes necessary.

[fijiization]

the answer is NO we cannot be double standard if we profess Jesus Christ.

the time is looming to deceive true Christians even the elect including big names of today

[desasterz]

did he say husband?

[l1aur3nn]

@TruthfulChristian I"m not sure that I follow you. Unless you meant to say that ideally in Utopia people wouldn't take medications, but realistically here on Earth they sometimes need to. "Truthfulchristian" - that is quite an honorable title that you have, btw. Wow.

[l1aur3nn]

It's great how Pastor Piper sometimes says things like this. Even if what he says sometimes seems basic or obvious. Because, if I for example had said it, no one would consider listening to it.

[memast5]

Depression is an oppression of the enemy. So is sickness and disease.  "And Jesus went about doing good healing all that were oppressed of the devil."

[nedmorlef]

God ordained "every green herb" on the 6th day of creation.I challenge any Christian 2 take a concordance & seek "green herb" or "every green herb". there r at least a 1/2 dozen scriptures spread throughout the OT & NT that proclaim. "herbs bearing seed" as food and medicine. yet the likes of gw bush that lie and call God's work evil. God said himself that his world was "very good". "nothing is evil of itself". Only man is evil. anyone calling a plant evil is psychotic if not psychopathic.

[rupert2trepur]

@nedmorlef I agree people try to twist things to their own passion. Yet though it says if you add unto to these words, I shall add 7 fold unto your life, in the bible. People even re write bible and use that translation to go by, people are sick

[nedmorlef]

i stand by wat I said. man's traditions rule american christianity. I believe the Word of God. Not some pc Christian or tv preacher. cannabis is not a drug. it's an herb w/ euphoric effects w/ tremendous healing properties. it just evolved here w/ the devil? first time alcohol prohibition came to the political front in 1840 , those Christians didn't have any issue w/ buying and selling of negroes like they were litters of puppies but, alcohol was sin. I agree Christians in bondage can be blind.

[nedmorlef]

@rupert2trepur my last comment is towards christians in general and not a personal attack on you. :}

[Bmarch08]

@nedmorlef Yeah, he said that BEFORE the fall. According to this logic, it would be perfectly acceptable and safe to eat poison berries, or to eat poison ivy. Its all good right? After sin was brought into the world, the world became fallen and dangerous, and there are some things that should be avoided.

Not saying that medication is wrong, just pointing out how utterly flawed your logic is.

Also, even if i grant ur premises, i dont see how psychotic or psychopathic are appropriate.

[nedmorlef]

@Bmarch08 aft the fall he said they were food & medicine. read the scriptures. nothing is evil of itself. did he give all but, cannabis? that's not in my bible. even if, u read the wine scripts they don't deny alcohol. yet, many Christians say alcohol is sin. show me a verse. any verse. it says no drinking for kings & bishops. every one else gets a warning to be careful. don't be drunk. that's sin. i guess none of u have any sin . u're all pure as the driven snow. Jesus was the only sinless 1

[Bmarch08]

@nedmorlef your reading in alot into what im saying. I never said i was without sin. Im not saying Cannabis is bad or good, i was just saying that your logic that if it grows from the ground, it is good. Its simply flawed. There are much stronger arguments for Cannabis than that.

Paul did say tho that all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient. Is habitual smoking expedient? To make ur point you must show it is, or at the very least it wont hurt you.

[nedmorlef]

@Bmarch08 well,castor oil comes from the castor bean. ricin comes from the castor bean. ricin is the deadliest natural poison known to man yet, we feed castor oil to our children. i grow castor beans with my vegetable garden. God blesses his world for his people. only men call Gods creations evil. If you are truly sick AD can make your life better. however there are many herbs that work if, you take them regularly. especially the devil plant marijuana. it works so well it must be from satan LOL

[DubCha25]

Pastor John Piper has shown so much grace for those suffering under depressions hold in this video.