Richard Dawkins: Trinity And Quantum Theory Equally Mysterious

[ogfunk187]

we live in a hologram, the buddhists are right.

[baldrbraa]

It's strange to hear Richard Dawkins uttering the word "trinity"

[wadden960]

that assumes that there is a way forward in the area of ESP, if it happens to be all nonsense then skeptism was exactly the right attitude to avoid wasting your time on something false there are more things to study then there is time to study them so you have to make a choice as to what is worth your time, since there is no actual evidence for ESP my skeptism allows me to not waste my time, to quote Dawkins "there is such a thing as being so Open-minded your brain falls out"

[wadden960]

I haven't heard anything about this study but to say the least I am skeptical, but say it is all 100% accurate and repeatable in a controlled environment, I would say its a pretty far cry to go from possibly having a sense someone is watching you to being able to read minds or control things with your mind, from wiki on ESP "Among scientists in the National Academy of Sciences, 96% described themselves as skeptical" I would say I am not in bad company in being skeptical about the whole thing

[wadden960]

@loeghat ... Show me some evidence (falling apple) and we can arrive at a conclusion you don't start at the answer then work back to the evidence. Newton didn't think of gravity then wait for an apple to fall to support his thought...

[wadden960]

@loeghat "what if telepathy exists.." your argument would only hold water if there was evidence that telepathy was accurate, it may exist in some form we don't understand but no one has ever demonstrated it to exist in any controlled situation. We can't see gravity but we can see the apple fall so we know something is happening and we expanded on that observation to come to the conclusion of Gravity....

[stewodd]

whats a richard dawkins? 

[murozman]

@loeghat "What if telepathy exists..." Well that would depend on how you define it. As for your other words, I have no idea what you are saying.

[murozman]

@loeghat What do you mean by " ... explain quantum physics... " Do you mean no one can understand it? Quantum physics may be counter-intuitive but it is well understood. I mean we use it to make all kinds of things from computers to tunneling microscopes. What we don't understand is how it ties in with the rest of the laws of the universe, it's all to do with unification. We UNDERSTAND it but not fully! DNA 'telepathy' is NOT telepathy, it's just a substitute for the lack of an explanation.

[Stndup1]

Feynman, Richard The Strange Theory of Light and Matter)Now if the world of nature is made of atoms, and we too are made of atoms and obey physical laws, the most obvious interpretation of this evident distinction between past and future, and this irreversibility of all phenomena, would be that some laws, some of the motion laws of the atoms, are going one way that the atom laws are not such that they can go either way.

[M1ST3RHYDE]

FCUK, THIS MAN IS GOOD!!!

I only wish i could present casses like Dawkins.

[karlmahlmann]

I would bet $1000 that Dawkins has never had a course in quantum and the only thing he knows about quantum mechanics is what he's read in other pop-science books. The irrational devotion to this lunatic is indistinguishable from the devotion the followers of some Indian guru or Mohammad would have. And that's to be expected, right. For all his words, he reduces to just another demagogue with his own intractable dogma about life and death (and, oh yes, aliens - they made us, you know -lol)

[rrpostalagain]

I would bet your bet is wrong. How 'bout that? I don't think anyone should take anything he (or anyone) says as gospel. Still, I put a bit more respect for him than a typical youtube poster. He's just one piece, one voice, in judging the universe around us, and I don't see where he claims to be anything else. I am sure he would admit quantum theory is not his educational strength. Nor is it mine.

[darkrain64]

ok so u belive yes he dose not denine god in the sence as of a start but in saying that there is much more evidence saying that the way we used 2 belive that life came about is very very unlikely to have happened p.s sorry about spelling

[karlmahlmann]

After Dawkins graduated with an advanced degree in Biology, he became a science writer. He's never been significantly involved in research and never made any notable contribution to science. He's probably never taken a course in quantum mechanics. I doubt if he's had any of the math that underlies the topics he lectures about. Its hard to imagine a more brazen impostor. He also talks glowingly about how human DNA could have been made by space aliens.

[M1ST3RHYDE]

You Speak Much about evidence you have no credible Ideas of.

The Alien DNA you mentioned was Him giving A Complete Hypothetical In the attempts to Give A Best & case Scenario for the Foolish notion Of Intelligent Design.. This Is Openly stated by him EVERY chance he can & he said he will no longer "Extend The Olive Branch". To help another case sound Almost Plausible.

You should Never trust A poorly represented movie that Edits commentary exactly to thier liking.

[karlmahlmann]

But just when you think this guy is rational and of sound mind, he starts talking about his space alien theories. He just keeps yapping that aliens made us, everywhere he goes. Other than that he's terrific. I caught his act in Vegas. He does a fantastic impersonation of a scientist. He fit right in with the Elvis & Lucy impersonators. - if he would just shut up about his UFO theories.

[M1ST3RHYDE]

You do a poor job of impersonating A person that knows what he is talking about. I know For A fact that you are More then wrong, You are a missguided Liar & should be Ashamed of YourSelf.

You may have seen him say it so often for the only reason that you watch the exact same poorly edited clip from that Shity movie.

[patrickledford420]

@M1ST3RHYDE yes, these creationist have nothing left but quote mining, outright lies and fudging the data. i dont know why the fuck they dont accept that religion is bullshit and a god may exist but (s)he certainly didnt create us in our current form and that THEIR god is NOT real

[chutethebull68]

@patrickledford420 How then do you explain Hebrews 11:1-3 which says, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for and evidence of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." This is a description of quantum mechanics taken directly from the Bible written 2000 years ago.

[TerryStoneNL]

@chutethebull68 how in the world does that describe quantum mechanics?

Either you don't understand quantum mechanics or you are interpreting an ancient text so it fits with modern science. So really there is nothing to explain here, the burden of proof rests on the shoulders of those making the claim, in this case it rests with you.

[HackNinja420]

@chutethebull68 Faith translated is "i believe without proof". The bible is quite poetic, the best way to lie is to sandwich it between two truths. For example...

Thou shalt not kill. All gays must be stoned to death. Judge not, lest ye shalt not be judged. Do you see my point. Basicly, if we are being real, god was invented in a cave, by primates. The smart one found that if he played the role of "shaman" or "god is more my friend that yours" role he could aquire more coin, food, water etc etc

[MrDasmaster]

@karlmahlmann so how does this make him wrong?

[1stLtDavis]

Lynchburg, VA LOL

[karlmahlmann]

Does this guy have any credentials in physics?? (Other than the fact that his name rhymes with Hawking). The guy has an advanced degree biology - so what?, -apparently no background in physics or mathematics. Looks like he's never been involved in research or made any contribution to science. His position at Oxford was in public relations. He's a science writer. Why is he yapping about quantum mechanics. I bet he wouldn't recognize the Schrodinger equation if it bit him in the fanny.

[murozman]

Your argument is fallacious, it's called an argumentum ad hominem. I can tell you that what he said about physics is entirely accurate. Of course he's not a physicist but he can talk about it. Biology involves a lot of maths actually, and I'm sure he can understand the basics of Schrodinger equation. I have explained it to people who have done A Level physics and further maths quite easily(of course after teaching them partial derivatives) and helped them solve basic quantum mechanical problems.

[stalwartatheist]

"The guy has an advanced degree biology - so what?, -apparently no background in physics or mathematics"

I'm sorry to be blunt, but you're talking shit. A scientist specializing in one field does not only know about that one field. As murozman points out, biology involves much mathematics. By your reasoning, Stephen Hawking's opinions on chemistry or biology should be ignored. You've made a twat of yourself here Karl.

[jazzx251]

Read "The God Delusion"

[karlmahlmann]

The guy is a scientist impostor, pure and simple. He got an advanced degree in biology and went straight into writing "great scientist condescends to masses" books. There are actually a lot of good science-for-laymen books written by accomplished scientists. Many are agnostic / atheist. None are garden-variety bigots like Dawkins.

[jazzx251]

Nice try - but you should read some of his books before you spout that drivel.

[DietBroccoli]

Was he wrong?

[Cade57]

Yes Karl is wrong, Dawkins was writing very good science books, they were not at all condescending to any body.

[DietBroccoli]

You misunderstand. I was responding to karl. I know that karl was wrong, but I was asking if Dawkins was wrong. Already knowing, of course, that he was not.

[1Solace]

How can he be atheist if he is so fond of quantum theory? Someone please explain this to me.

[cidvisions]

Because quantum theory is not mystic. Nothing in quantum theory predicts any kind of mystical powers, healing, or anything like you saw in "What the Bleep do we Know?" Go read the articles about how pissed the scientists were who were in the movie when they saw how grossly misrepresented they were.

[1Solace]

Quantum theory is not mystic, but its implications are profound. There are numerous experiments indicating that another force, dimension, or energy field exists and cannot be measured, explained or predicted accurately. The evidence is also immense, from the wave/particle duality, to quantum entanglement, to the cosmos effect on evolution, to the testing of electromagnetic energy in plants/tissue that somehow can detect something in the room that distresses them (that's an intelligent awareness)

[1Solace]

Moreover, the DNA's structure is beginning to reveal itself as well as mostly of a wave nature; scientists, for example, can change a frog embryo into a salamander embryo just by directing a holographic electromagnetic laser through. The list is endless and as we approach the future, more and more phenomenon are evident. So who's speaking of mysticism? I have never seen that movie, and I wouldn't get all my quantum information from it. Mass media taints

[cidvisions]

OMG thank you so MUCH!!! I just read the article you are sourcing and it is the funniest damn thing I have seen in ages!

"wave-activated DNA can manipulate the space matrix, producing small electromagnetic wormholes of a subquantum nature."

LOL!

I am studying to be an organic chemist and I can't wait to show this around. But I think you should definitely teach all of your offspring that they should think real hard about any injuries or disease they have instead of using medical technology.

[gmcjetpilot]

New super collider (atomic particle accelerator/smasher) is looking for GOD PARTICAL. Why?

Renowned scientest, physicist like Stephen Hawking consider God in the universe. All the founding fathers of modern science, Newton, Kepler, felt the universe was inteligable to man because it was made intelligently, not random chance. Why?

I HATE science being perverted. He projects science as infallible, perfect and having ALL THE ANSWERS, a substitute for God. Science is GREAT, but God is greater.

[Zekkron]

Higgs Boson particle.

[gmcjetpilot]

Right! The Large Hadron Collider might confirm or disprove the Boson Higg theory among other's: whats in a proton, nature of dark matter & matter energy and extra dimensions. Unobserved particle are predicted by the standard model (atom) which falls short of a complete theory of fundamental interactions & doesn't include gravity (another thing we really don't fully understand). Lots of unknown unseen stuff in science, cool. I hope they don't create a black-hole & swollow up the Earth.

[gmcjetpilot]

This is what I hate about Dawkins circular logic. He tries to baffle people with BULL SHIT. First he knows NOTHING about physics or quantum mechanics. I have a masters in physics. The circular logic comes in, when he says or implies religion can't be proved with science, than blows a BIG SMOKE screen trying to impress people with SCIENCE and how AMAZING! Than says SEE relgion sucks. WTF?

I love science too much to see frauds use it to "prove" atheism, or Christians use it for that matter.

[IzzyBunneh]

you're very clearly bias, if you're going to get so upset i suggest not coming into the discussion at all

and he's said several times that no one can "disprove" god, anymore than anyone can disprove unicorns, that's a misrepresentation of his position

[gmcjetpilot]

I am not upset at all. You are the one posting EIGHT RELIES! Ha-ha LOL

You are putting words in my mouth I never said. Did I say anything about Einstein's personal spiritual beliefs? Is Einstein you God. What does he know about theology and philosophy? Nothing. You are a weird creep liar who feels the need to post bombastic BS about your beliefs. No one cares! I am entitled to my beliefs and opinions as well. Who are you to tell people what they should believe; are you the Thought Nazi.

[gmcjetpilot]

I love how he lends credibility to quantum physics, general theory or relativity, subatomic particles and than says they CAN MEASURE IT WITH STUPEFYING ACCURACY, but you can't with the bible? PLEASE.

When the most renowned physicist doing the most cutting edge theoretical work, wax poetic about GOD, when trying to explain the astronomically unlikely statistical chance that things happened, as predicted to make "theories" work, you would say, REALLY? That is why they say GOD!

[IzzyBunneh]

einstien made it clear he didn't believe in a personal god, saying, "if there's anything in me that can be called religious, then it is an unbounded admiration for the universe as far as our science can reveal it"

his earlier quotes suggest a spiritual disposition, but his later ones tend to sober up a bit, probably as he realizes he's misleading people

einstien used god as a metaphor for the unknown, which is fine, although misleading

and how is that a verifiable prediction?

[SKJAVED9999]

is bible the word of god ?

if bible is the word of god how come that:

1. bible has scientific errors, illogical and contradictions errors

2. Jesus proves that trinity is fake himself.

3. bible has unfulfilled prophecy

4.Jesus said that he is not god himself in the bible..

to believe what i am saying i would recommend you to watch my videos on my channel which is very short in which proofs, references and verses are mentioned as subtitled.

[gmcjetpilot]

"bible has scientific errors, illogical and contradictions errors" THAT IS NOT TRUE EXAMPLE PLEASE

"Jesus proves that trinity is fake himself"

WRONG, AGAIN EXAMPLE

"bible has unfulfilled prophecy"

WRONG, AGAIN EXAMPLE

"Jesus said that he is not god himself in the bible" REFERENCE PLS

You throw all this out (lies) and expect any one to take you seriously. You have been drinking the KOOK AID, my friend. Your brain is rotted, heart corroded with deception. Sad.

Merry Christmas

[IzzyBunneh]

scientific errors in the bible? how about it gets the value of pi wrong? or that it has verses that suggest the typical belief in the area at the time, that the world was flat. or that it calls bats birds, and makes anatomical statements about insects that are incorrect. it talks about a solid "firmament" like a "tent" over the "circle" of the earth, paints a clear picture. the bible makes it clear that stars are tiny objects in sky that will fall down when jesus comes back. Revelation 8:10

[gmcjetpilot]

"scientific errors in the bible? how about it gets the value of pi wrong?"

The Bible does not predict Pi. Dawkins is a jackass. The Bible is not scientific nor tries to be. Any one that tries to do science with the Bible is a fool. GOOGLE this than search the site with following key words: LEARN!

gotquestions org religious-science

science-God

Christian-science

creation-evolution

science-creationism

flying-spaghetti-monster

abiogenesis-definition-theory

[gmcjetpilot]

"Pi" - purplemath com modules bibleval

"that the world was flat" - Bible NEVER says the world is flat. It says it's a disk round (no translation for globe or sphere), and it says 4 corners, as in N-E-S-W, not flat.

"bible makes it clear that stars are tiny objects in sky" - Revelation 8:10 says, "and there fell out of the heaven a great star". That is "A" great star, one, causing destruction as it HITS earth. Don't try to interpret or understand revelations, it's BEYOND YOU.

[IzzyBunneh]

look, i'm not going to baby you, if you want to know these things, you obviously have a computer and a stable internet connection, and i trust you have a bible

do the research yourself and stop asking atheists to "prove" it, because it's all there. judging from the frantic pase and capitalized words in your posts, you're one of those angry christains, therefore i end the discussion before things get ahead of themselves

enjoy your ignorance, you won't get anymore from me

[cidvisions]

Sorry GMC but the bible specifically says the world is a "circle" not a sphere. Now I could go along with your idea that they meant sphere if only they didn't call the sky a dome. As anyone who has seen a superbowl knows, a dome is only HALF of a sphere. They thought the Earth was flat.

[karlmahlmann]

@cidvisions actually the Bible wasn't written in English. You are splitting hairs on English definitions. The Hebrew translated as "dome" in Amos, New American Standard. is translated as "strata" in the New King James. Anyway, it's in the context of poetry. The Bible consistently describes the Earth exactly as a planet. You should consider that, before the Big Bang theory, the phrase "In the beginning" was the strongest point of Bible criticism.

[cidvisions]

@karlmahlmann The King James version is widely held by biblical scholars to be a very bad translation. In the Hebrew the word used to describe the Earth as a circle, Khug, was NEVER used anywhere else except to describe flat circular objects. The only reason the KJV "consistently describes the Earth exactly as a planet" is because the committee that wrote it knew the Earth was a planet.

[TheNikkonish]

@cidvisions well then that sort of debunks the idea that the Bible is the inerrant word of god.

[murozman]

Stars are bigger than the earth, except neutron stars(which are dense and have more mass). Stars don't fall to earth, they are not above the earth. In fact, if anything was to 'fall' towards anything, the earth will be the one doing the falling(the star would move infinitesimally). Read a book about gravity or some thing! Jesus!

[IzzyBunneh]

According to the Genesis creation myth, the earth was formed and floreated before the creation of the sun. Aside from biomechanical problems, this flatly contradicts the nebular hypothesis of stellar formation, in which planets form in the accretion disk created by a young star. Also if you deny evolution, there's another contradiction of science, there's more of course, trying googling and researching this stuff yourself for once?

[gmcjetpilot]

"deny evolution"

Oh no we can't deny that, because that's YOUR religion. It's perfect & infallible. Ha-ha. You cling to evolution. Clearly there's natural selection, adaptation with-in species, but NO species evolving into another. ALL LIFE WE SEE CAME FROM SOME SPONTANIOUS ACCIDENTAL RANDOM SIMPLE LIFE ORIGIN (with out intelligence) IS FAR FROM TRUTH OR LAW. IT'S A GRAND THEORY W/ BIG HOLES. Your denial of God is weak. Don't draw science into your delusion. God transcendent & metaphysical.

[IzzyBunneh]

as for the trinity thing he was talking about, probably: Deut 6:4. Mark 13:32

unfulfilled prophecies? there's many, of course, but because of the limit space i'll just outline a couple, the most significant which ish probably jesus claiming that he'd come back during the apostle's life times

then there's the business about god saying cain will be a wanderer forever, couple chapters later he settles down in a city. and the business about no one sitting on the throne of daivd

[gmcjetpilot]

"because of the limit space"

Cain? Have some quotes, verse chapter? I can't respond to a vague saw-man / red-herring. If you're really sincere, see the references I gave you. READ THE BIBLE! Call a local Church. Talk to pastor or minister. The devil has a good grip on you. You don't believe in God yet have no proof. OK so be it. You made a choice. Fine. Enjoy your Godless life. If you're so sure than shut up and move along, but you think about God a lot for an atheist. Ha-ha.

[IzzyBunneh]

we also have a number of prophecies that haven't apparently happened, but christains just claim that they "haven't come to pass yet", fair enough if no particular date is mentioned

no where in the bible does jesus claim to be god, except when he says John 10:30 "I and the Father are one"

but of course, a little later you see him describing all the children of god and his disciples as "one"

he also says,Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I." i'll list some more

[gmcjetpilot]

Jesus is God. Look it's silly to debate the Bible with you, because you're ignorant. Google:

gotquestions org is-Jesus-God

Also search these topics in got questions org:

Trinity-Bible

Jesus-Son-of-God

who-is-God

Gospel-of-John

SAB-cruelty-short

Do you always spew about things you know nothing of? You go to these atheist "skeptic" web sites and take everything out of context. Google

bible cc john 14-28

[IzzyBunneh]

the problem with deciding this stuff from the bible is the book is so vague and poorly constructed and ordered, that most of what is written can be twisted to mean anything

not to mention the several times it was altered for political reasons, and because of modern advances in science

the vagueness is why theres around 34thousand distinct sects of christainity, according to the online christain encylopedia. if this is a book written by an omnipotent being, then i'm sort of disapointed

[gmcjetpilot]

"deciding this stuff from the bible is the book is so vague and poorly constructed"

You mean the QURAN? Have you read the Quran? Why are you picking on the Bibles and Christians when the Quran incites violence & 99% of terrorism is by Muslims in the name of Allah the last 18 yrs. (Of course there where Islamic crusades from 5th through 12 century).

[IzzyBunneh]

i find the works of Plato or Aristotle much more compelling, and of course, why is it that our modern secular morality is so much more advanced than the morality of god? it certainly creates a more stable society

and then there's the whole business about the old testament claiming to be "the absolute unalterable word of god"... oh, whoops, the new testament, we'll let it slide this once i guess

[gmcjetpilot]

" find the works of Plato or Aristotle much more compelling, and of course, why is it that our modern secular morality is so much more advanced than the morality of god? it certainly creates a more stable society"

How so, your opinion, who cares. The moral, values and wisdom of Jesus Chirst are the finest mankind has ever seen. Does my faith offend you. Is it the Gay thing? Are you gay?

Your sarcasm mixed with ignorance makes you a Philistine full of rebellion, intolerance and stupidity.

[IzzyBunneh]

by the way, the poster you responded to recommended the videos on his channel for the details

and don't get angry about it, he's entitled to his opinion. of course, you're entitled to take offense and insult him too if you want, but i wouldn't recommend it if you were actually expecting a response ( i don't respond to people who throw personal insults either, that's when i end the discussion )

[787Bisurdaddy]

Dawkins is awesome. I only hope to hone my intellect and ideas so that one day I may provide my answers as quickly and completely as he can. As it stands right now, the answers tend to be there, but they take a while for me to refine.

[Alphasys]

How ever eloquent Mr. Richard Dawkins is. He's gifted with the power to insue clarity in few words. In other words... Gotta love the guy.

[torresmatt]

Did you really think I meant what I said? I was using a device known as sarcasm...to make fun of the idea of the trinity and how much of an idiot the guy asking the question sounded like.

[greycloud24]

i stopped debating with theists. it is impossable to have a rational debate with an irrational person, and a theist by their very beleifs must be defined as irrational. any rational person would come to the conclusion that their god is false on their own with no need of a debate.

[Xenithan]

Indeed. If you say something is not possible, they pull the Miracle card, and how can you debate that? Topicality!!!

[Nykytyne]

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."

--Thomas Jefferson

[torresmatt]

I dunno I think the trinity still makes more sense. Jesus, god and the holy spirit are separate but the same. They're not different, but they are but they're not. They're the same but they're not the same, but they are the same...just different. If you can't get your head around that, I dunno what to tell ya. You just don't get it.

[paulmarko]

Lol, nice

[Psittacosaurus]

torresmatt, the idea that one idevidual entity can, at the same time be three separate entities is profoundly illogical. That's like saying the Three Stooges are actually one highly masochistic person.

[torresmatt]

Yeah...no shit. Notice the ridiculous way in which I pretended to put forth the idea. I was trying to point out how stupid it is by pretending I believe it.

[EGarrett01]

Right, and what predictions come from the Holy Trinity idea?

Good to see you didn't understand a single thing Dawkins said in this video.

[torresmatt]

Okay...obviously I did too good of a job being sarcastic here. I was trying to point out the ridiculousness and lack of logic it takes to believe the trinity. I think paulmarko got it.

[EGarrett01]

Poe's Law states:

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing"

[torresmatt]

Okay, that's a lovely law you've got there. But did you really think I would use the sentence that I used? Sorry, but no. Satire doesn't have to contain a "smiley". Go read "a modest proposal" by Jonathan Swift. No smileys...no "gotcha!" at the end. Just satire.

[EGarrett01]

Poe's Law states:

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing"

[Fakatkafa]

Hmmm, sounds to me as if you are the one who doesn't get it at all in the first place. Did you even undertand what you said? Get some fresh air, it'd do good...