Gedda&Sutherland 1963 live I Puritani "Vieni fra queste braccia"

[Eiswirth1]

Just incredible! No two singers these days generate chills like that!

[Bjoerrelli]

Your right Gedda was born 1925 not 27 I was confused and mixed that up.

[Iplayinaband]

Falsetto is airy and completely incapable of dynamic range. Falsetto is useless, does not carry through a room, and does not blend with the rest of the voice. Gedda does not mix with falsetto. His voice is fully resonant and rings. He is mixing with legitimate head voice.

[00193900]

This recording is available on CD and is pure gold. Was there that nite so it brought back memories and it STILL makes my hair stand on end! Also a young Justino Diaz, Ernst Blanc and Betty Allen. A 100 * performance from EVERY singer!

[ATsarIsBorn]

MY three tenors were Bergonzi, Gedda and Vickers. All still alive, none of them replaced so far as I am aware.

[00193900]

Was there that night 3rd row center and BELIEVE me, what a night! Have never been to any performance like it since. EVERY singer sang 150%!

[Herur22]

@00193900

Lucky you to be able to be there.

[MrAndredekock]

@Herur22 It's obvious that you're also a Gedda fan so welcome to the club lol. I corresponded with him in the days of snailmail from 1973 to 1983 and he was always so gracious as to reply to all my letters in his own flowing and very exotic hand writing. I was actually meant to go and study voice with him and his wife who were both attached to the Gothenburg Conservatoire, but it all fell through and never materialised. Still he continued showing support to me and always replied to my letters.

[Herur22]

@MrAndredekock

Yes, I am certainly a Gedda's fan. Nice for you to be able to be in contact with him for so long. Bad luck that you weren't able to study with him. I am wondering though - at that time Gedda was still married to Anastasia. Do you mean to tell that she had anything to do with the conservatory?

[MrAndredekock]

@Herur22 Yes Gedda was still performing all over the world at that time too and so when he was away his wife would coach the students in his absence. I would have been studying at the University but Gedda and his wife would have been my two main teachers, along with whoever was at the University. Politics is what prevented me from going eventually. Take care.

[Astradamors]

@00193900 I absolutely envy you!

[GermanOperaSinger]

There's a lot of truth to what 'bigus' says. But Gedda's singing technique was MUCH closer to the classic Italian bel canto style than Pavarotti's. The extension of full chest into the top is a very 20th century idea. TRUE bel canto involved mixing the registers, training the head tone to control all pitches in a singer's range. This gives the voice flexibility, dynamic control, and a GREAT top that ideally peaks in power at the highest usable note in the singer's range. This is what Gedda used.

[GermanOperaSinger]

Pavarotti may have had a great top in his 30s, but even then, could he sing a high C in messa voce like Gedda? Additionally, he lost his top by the time he was in his 40s. Gedda still had a usable high C# well into the 1970s, when he was over 50. The bel canto technique 'school of head voice' is tried and true, vocally healthy, and produces a beautiful, easy to control singing voice. The 20th century 'school of chest voice' produces a vibrant but heavy, hard to control sound. It's a tradeoff.

[GermanOperaSinger]

In the end, technique is secondary. Both had good techniques, and I listen for musicality and artistic expression. Gedda was a far greater musician and artist than Pavarotti, and a far more varied singer. Pavarotti just phoned everything in - all his roles sound the same. That's just my opinion.

[GermanOperaSinger]

I forgot to mention: breath support is also a very 20th century concept. As 'bigus' noted, it takes far less breath support to control a falsetto/head register dominated mixed voice than it does to control a chest dominated sound. 19th century bel canto teachers never mentioned anything about breath support, and neither did the late Cornelius Reid, one of the last advocates of the TRUE bel canto technique here in the States (and indeed, in the world). All we have nowadays are chest belters.

[MrAndredekock]

@GermanOperaSinger That's a total over exaggeration! For one thing you are mixing up your terminology as Gedda sings a PURE HEAD VOICE High D or F and definitely NOT a chest voice. Yes he supports that note in the chest by creating an apposing pressure on the diaphragm in order to keep the flow of air constant throughout the note but it is NOT a chest voice! And be specific as to who you are calling chest belters and exactly what you mean by that as it is IMPOSSIBLE to sing chest upper registers

[Bjoerrelli]

@GermanOperaSinger I have to disagree, Gedda was great up until around -73 when he was 45-46 years old. Then his vibrato slowed down and started to sound wobbly. Pavarotti who were just eight years younger than Gedda didn´t start to sound wobbly until a year before he died. But I agree that Gedda in his prime had the easiest top of the two. If you listen to the high F in Puritani anyone can hear the differece between the two on their absolute top notes.

[Herur22]

@Bjoerrelli

Just a little correction - Gedda was 48 years old in 1973 (and Pavarotti was 10 years younger). It was in that year that he sang that great high F, in comparison to Pavarotti's falsetto.

[MrAndredekock]

@Bjoerrelli The wobble can develop at different ages in different people. Beverly Sills developed a wobble at about age 48 and stopped singing altogether at 51. I myself am a retired baritone and developed a wobble at 56 and immediately stopped singing. So it really is the role of the dice as to whether a singer develops a wobble or not and hopefully it comes at the end of their career and does not shorten it as it did with mine and many other singers.

[SHICOFF1]

I heard pavoratti often and I know what squillo is, he had some Squillo in house and Gedda when I heard him in recital and on stage had little squillo in his voice but the voice on top was much bigger then Pavoratti . Enrico. Di Giuseppe in the 60's, Shicoff, Tucker and Peerce had lots of ring in house when I heard them. Neil in the middle voice especially in the 1980's had Amazing Squillo when I heard him . Chicago, Lucia with Gruberova . I wish I had heard Fritz W.but never did

[SHICOFF1]

Neil Shicoff in one interview said that Gedda's voice had this incredible top that could go to the moon! You either Like his sound or not but he had fantastic high notes for a basic lyric voice. I heard him in recital and in opera, he was excellent in both and yes his top voice was larger then Pavoratti was.

[premiereopera1]

Sorry, but Pavarotti did NOT have a big voice, and his high C was less than half the size of that of Gedda. I saw them both countless times.

[qw3rtydud3]

Great sound... they do distort the vowels a hell of a lot though

[UchihaGege]

nobody can sing this like gedda even pavarotti shifted it before singing, and it isn't like this

[murzik777]

Дело не в высоких нотах. Гедда вкладывал душу в пение так, как мог только он один. Впрочем, и Паваротти в этом не откажешь - он делал это по-итальянски. И Каррерасу - я просто умираю от его Tu che a Dio spiegastil'ali. А все же с Кристиной Дейтеком у Гедды Vieni fra queste braccia получше.

[poolification]

Does anyone know if this recording is available on CD?

[Herur22]

You can download the performance from the address given on the side bar.

[Herur22]

It is, of course, a pirate recording and the quality is not good. But only this pirate recording exists, as far as I know.

[poolification]

Got it! Never really noticed your download page before - it's a treasure chest! Thanks alot Herur, you're God's gift to youtube!

[00193900]

Just got it from Amazon

[Herur22]

I don't see this recording at Amazon. Did you got the recording with Sills?

[serenaluce]

Gedda's singing is just stunning! Always... Why talk so much about Pavarotti who was just more promoted if there is GEDDA?!

[bigus]

@serenaluce there will always be lots of talk about pavarotti because he was the best and set the standard of singing on pretty much all of the tenor rep he sang. not to say other tenors weren't good simply that pavarotti had more of the desireable qualities in the voice and musicality than most.

[serenaluce]

@bigus There's no such thing as "the best singer". You can only speak for yourself and say that YOU consider Pavarotti the best for you. As for me, there are so many great tenors (if we talk about them) who are MUCH BETTER then he in IMO. But he was PROMOTED more than any other tenor in the world of all time! He actually doesn't set any standard of excellency in voice but shows THE BEST marketing skills.Such tenors from different times as Wunderlich, Gigli, Gedda, Atlantov, Corelli are greater!

[bigus]

@serenaluce of course it is my opinion just like anyone else who has an opinion on their favorites, they have their reasons. i have listened to all of those tenors at length and unfortunately don't find them greater in any one way than pav except in the rep they personally excelled in. wunderlich for mozart/rossini which pav didnt do. and corelli for the larger roles i would prefer his size of voice over pav but neither were all around as good imo.side by side pav sets the standard 9/10 times

[serenaluce]

@bigus Pavarotti IMO had a great smooth and effortless technique but he knew very well how to sell himself for the market. He tried to please as many people as possible and made his interpretations just beatiful but the depth of his singing, image suffered. I don't want to say he was bad. He was a classically trained singer and singing opera he performed in the right style, unlike Bocelli who sings POP OPERA, in QUASI CLASSICAL style but his promoters now mix it and present as TRUE opera!

[bigus]

@serenaluce i agree with you with bocelli etc. but pavarotti was intensely musical, and his phrasing was as perfect as you can get imo. he knew exactly how long to sustain, and when to trasition to get maximum interpretive effect from the music. sure he was a big fat guy later who was hard to be seen as the hero but people love callas and di stephano for their phrasing and that is where pavarotti gets his musical influence and his technique could support his musical phrasing that others couldnt

[bigus]

@serenaluce geddas voice lacked the beauty and only excelled pav in his ability to float high notes which is also a reason his voice lacked the power because of the mixing he had to do. gigli is of course fantastic in everyway but i still find him inferior slightly in everyway. Atlantov really?? not in a million years, how is he even in the running? even if a tenor compares technically to pav you have all the other aspects such as phrasing, legato, overall musicality and then finally timbre.

[Herur22]

@bigus

The question of the beauty of the voice is very subjective. For me Gedda's voice is most beautiful and judging from many comment on Youtube (and many critics) I am not the only one with this opinion.

[bigus]

@Herur22 i agree, the question of timbre beauty is 100% opinion. gedda is fantastic and i own many recordings etc but i just don't think his tone quality throughout his range is as exciting or as beautiful as pavarottis and it is of course my opinion. geddas B-C-D are my favorite notes that he sings but im not a fan of his production in the low voice and passagio which i think is purely technical.

[serenaluce]

@bigus I agree too that it's all subjective! And in my subjective opinion I agree with Herur. I'm just not ready to say that Gedda has the most beautiful voice but he is in my top 3 of all time. Concerning him and Pavarotti, I'm just so surprised how people can even compare them and prefer Pavarotti?! And I don't even want to mention how slender and aristocratic looking, handsome man Gedda is! His voice has DEPTH, EMOTIONS, SOUL! I have a set of vynil records. For me he's the best Arturo ever

[bigus]

@serenaluce thats fair enough and i totally respect that. to be honest i was once a super fan of gedda and preferred both him and kraus to pavarotti. the more i learned about technique however i have had to shift to pavarotti and corelli as being the pinnacles of vocal production first and foremost along with bjorling. adding to that the way pavarotti makes love to the sung line with his musical phrasing and topping it off with his brilliant clarion timbre i can settle on no other for a favorite

[bigus]

i settled on pavarotti after running down the list for years through the process of deduction rather than stopping with the 3 tenors like some do. im a simple student of the voice and analyze it as a hobby along side my own personal study and teaching. pav just had superior phonation and overal technical production that the rest, almost machine like in his consistancy. people love to hate him for selling out but he was still a master. if gedda is your favorite i respect it,he used to be mine too

[serenaluce]

@bigus Well, it's again all subjective. I don't find that Pavarotti had superior phonation and better technique. If he sang like a MACHINE isn't a compliment to me at all. I prefer HUMAN singing, even sometimes possible some mistakes in technique ( I don't mean Gedda at all), but with SOUL and PERSONALITY, INDIVIDUALITY, not like an AUTOMATION, SINGING MACHINE! Tastes really differ. Gedda is UNIQUE, not a singing machine, not CONVEYER producing a lot of SIMILAR stuff.

[gaytenor]

@bigus Given your age and attitude I'm sure you never heard either singer in a live presentation. A poorly recorded William Tell with Gedda from Florence shows that Gedda's top was the most powerful part of his voice yet he could be heard in every scene of the opera clearly. As Herur22 has pointed out tonal beauty is subjective but I personally find Gedda's tone ravishing. At 60in a recital in Italy Gedda could still float the high notes in the Pearl Fishers aria in true mezza voce.

[bigus]

@gaytenor yes he could, but that was because he mixed. pavarotti never mixed when you mix its easy to float because you arent supporting full voice. but mixing isn't true mezza voce its mixed falsetto which gedda did beautifully but it also limited his core voice potential. its all a technical trade off. true mezza voce isn't a mixed falsetto pavarotti did use true mezza voce because he didnt mix his core. as much as i like geddas mix i prefer overall more core throughout which pav and othershad

[bigus]

i agree that geddas top was the strongest part of his voice. he doesn't really start sounding good until about A natural to me BECAUSE of his limited core he had as a result of mixing his high notes. i just prefer more squillo in the sound. pavarotti didnt have a huge voice but he had a ton of squillo because he never mixed and kept his phonation pure. one tenor i love who does mix is LBL i just like his voice/production more. i dont mind mix i just think its a trade off for the rep you choose

[bigus]

@serenaluce finally a tenor's/singers fame will typically be the result of the number of contrabutions they have made to their art. not sure anyone has made as large of a contrabution to the actual world of opera since caruso, and caruso chiefly because he was instrumental in the changing of what people whated to hear in a tenor from one phase of history to another. sure pav was marketed well, but he also did more singing and was in significantly higher demand than any other during his time.

[serenaluce]

@bigus I don't think that "3 tenors" style which is sold in every Wal-Mart and on which the majority of all people in the world judge about opera at all is THE GREATEST CONTRIBUTION to the actual world of opera since great Caruso! Also doing more singing as anybody else doesn't prove that he is really THE GREATEST! Take e.g. baroque. This promoted nonentity Philippe Jaroussky sings as much stuff as possible just for money, pleasing many with sweet empty sounds presenting his POP as true stuff

[bigus]

pavarotti cant be judged for the 3 tenors concerts as his operatic contrabutions,even tho those concerts are perhaps a big reason opera has been sustained because people who knew nothing about opera were turned onto it by those very concerts, i myself was one of them, now it is a passion.pavarottis operatic contrabutions came in his prime well before those concerts which were more for fun he was already the most famous tenor to date before them.he topped every role he performed except aida imo.

[hisimperialmajesty]

Astounding, on both accounts. I think the guy making the recording sums it up at the end (albeit by accident, perhaps): "...never heard anything quite like this." Absolutely astounding.  Thank you, Herur22.

[LobsngDmchoi]

Why is everyone talking about Pavarotti's high C in various stages of his career? Here we have an incredible thrilling live performance by two fine artists in one if the great bel canto duets. Unforgettable. Phenomenal vocalism.

[assindiastignani]

"King of the High C" was simply a P.R. gimmick by the record companies, one - I expect - Pavarotti soon came to regret. As a matter of pride, he couldn't allow himself to sing things like La Racconta di Rodolfo transposed, but yet after about 1972 or so that "C" war rarely good live (and I heard him in BOHEME many times in the house) and it obviously caused him great stress, because he always looked terrified the first 30 minutes of that opera.

[Mooorhe]

His C was rarely good in the '80s, for the duration of the '70s, it was stunning note that warranted the title it got.

[assindiastignani]

Are we talking live, or recordings?

[Mooorhe]

Live and in the studio.

[meltzerboy]

Why is having a high C so important? Caruso did not have a great high C, and that takes nothing away from his being a phenomenal tenor. Schipa was never known for high notes but is still regarded as a great tenore di grazia. You are correct in stating Pavarotti had a wonderful high C earlier in his career, and that is why--apart from the advertising campaign--he was called "King of the High C's." Later, he might have lost some of the top notes, as did Sutherland and most singers. But who cares?

[Mooorhe]

A high C isn't particularly important, as you say. I was participating in a discussion, adding that a singer is not to be judged by his years of twilight, that's not to say losing a reliable high C puts a singer into the twilight of their career, of course.

I agree with you that an argument about a high C is a fruitless one indeed, but I felt the need to point out the fact that singers age, and they change with age.

[meltzerboy]

I understand you are participating in a discussion and defending Pavarotti. My argument is simply that it does not matter so much to me if Pavarotti could no longer sing all those high C's in Fille du Regiment the way he brilliantly had done earlier in his career. (Perhaps, however, it did make a difference to Pavarotti!) There is so much more that makes a great singer than high notes, a powerful voice, or a large range even though we are always happy when a singer's voice has these features.

[Mooorhe]

It looks like we are very much in agreement then. No voice can have every asset of course, but I'm very glad that there are so many assets in voices out there to be admired.

[bigus]

@meltzerboy being a tenor myself ill just say its a matter of self respect to be able to command a high C of quality. its like what we strive for or the ultimate goal vocally. not to change the importance of the other aspects of singing, but unless your voice is big enough to never sing rep with a high C in it, then you will need the high notes to get hired. and the people of course want to hear the exciting high notes. i love richard tauber, but those singing days are gone right now.

[meltzerboy]

@bigus If you read my other comment, you'll find I partially agree with you. As far as wanting to hear high notes, I admit it does provide a visceral thrill; however, I look for many other qualities as well, including legato phrasing, tonal beauty and production, emotional commitment, interpretation, and so on. I think it unfortunate that the high notes, preferably forte, are such a huge consideration for managers with respect to hiring, as well as what audiences expect and respond to the most.

[castorp278]

''Caruso did not have a great high C, and that takes nothing away from his being a phenomenal tenor.'' It does take something away from him for with a great high c he would be even MORE phenomenal tenor.

[bigus]

@castorp278 agreed

[bigus]

@Mooorhe his high Bs he sang were always amazing and i dont think a half step is anything for him, he simply sang different rep. he had already tackled all the high rep and simply moved on to different mountains. his Cs later in his career or after his opera career were still better than most imo.i think pavarottis big claim to fame was his consistancy very rare do you ever hear pavarotti making any sort of mistake or blunder etc. he always sounds amazing.

[bigus]

@assindiastignani in his last 3 tenors concert in paris pavarotti sang a high C and it was the best note he sang all evenning. just because he didnt sing many high Cs later in his career didnt mean he couldn't. people like to think that, but the rep he was mainly singing in the concert circuits never called for anything higher than a B natural which were always amazing. whats a half step?

[assindiastignani]

@bigus Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. Richard never sang the aria in C Major, yet his Trovatore stretta was the most exciting ever. The high notes - whether C, B, B-flat or whatever - only need to be secure and beautiful. BTHW, you hardly need defend Pavarotti to me - you're preaching to the choir. I'm a big fan of his and heard him many, many times live in Boheme, Ballo, Luisa Miller, Aida, Puritani (in my opinion his best role), Rigoletto, etc.

[mariagalvany]

2) I have notice that Pavarotti always hid behind his soprano during duets. I dont know why he did that and i also agree if you are considered"THE KING OF HIGH C's" you should aleast have a strong high C.But he did'nt well not that large to say and he was covered in many duets with soprano. One that comes to mind is Monserrat Caballe,Who in "ANDREA CHENIER" blow him away in the final duet. which shocked me, I meam you couldnt hear him and also you could hear him try to go higher but he couldnt.

[Mooorhe]

Luciano Pavarotti had a very strong high C in the 60s and 70s. It was a beautiful strong sound. Grab a 'La Boheme' of his from the 70s. Or just watch what's available of his 1979 La Scala performance. He had a very strong and easy high C until he moved to heavier roles, his top became tighter and he lost that lyrical beauty he once had. That's why in for instance the Ballo duet he hides behind the soprano.

[mariagalvany]

But what about Monserrat Caballe,she was not known by her high C's And she blew him away in duets.

[Mooorhe]

In Questa Reggia, Turandot, 1977 San Francisco. Pavarotti's high C is perfectly audible at the end. His high C was vibrant and easy in his prime. He's not blown away by her at all there.

[mariagalvany]

Yes,but for somebody who is called "THE KING OF THE HIGH C" he should have blow her away. Like I said in my previous comment, in "ANDREA CHENIER" she completely blows him away. That is not expected from a tenor with high C he was known for.

[Mooorhe]

Being the king of the high C doesn't mean having the loudest C around. Pavarotti certainly did not. Pavarotti wasn't great at all in Andrea Chenier, it wasn't for his voice at all. His top became much tighter as he grew older. He had a glorious, vibrant and ringing C in his 30s which he was famous for.

[bigus]

@mariagalvany andrea chenier is more of a spinto role anyway. pavarottis voice was lyric with spinto qualities. its hard for any man to over power a woman, especialy a big voiced woman on a high C, unless you are someone like corelli with a freakishly large and loud horn of an instrument. its easier for women to carry on those notes and have been screamers from day one. men have to train them in and its not as natural. i agree with moorhe "king" doesnt mean big or loud it means free/easy here.

[cjondoran]

you really have no clue. i feel sorry for you.

[arminhebein]

Sorry Pavarotti does not need to hide behind anybody. Check his Vieni fra queste braccia with C sharp or the end of the "La favorita" duett. But Gedda did sing the Ds live on stage which Pavarotti did not.Pavarottis sings more belcanto than Gedda.

[Herur22]

The discussion began exactly because of this aria (Vieni fra queste braccia) with Pavarotti and Sutherland, when he was drowned by Sutherland. I am not saying that there were not other instances where he was better heard.

[mariagalvany]

Well,Your wrong. His c-sharp is drown out.

And he does hide behind sopranos,when sing duets.

[mariagalvany]

Well this indeed is a treasure to find,but though i respect your opinoin tonyantony1,But frankly here Joan Sutherland keeps up with Gedda here(no disrespect). Of Course I agree that Sutherland's voice is bigger than Pavarotti. But here she is not drowned out nor blown away. This is no disrespect to you in anyway,Im always interested in your opinoins

[tonyantony1]

I doubt whether you have ever listened to Pavarotti in live performances of opera since you haven't listen to famous live recordings of his Arturo and Edgardo.Nice try, Sherlock Holmes. Why don't make a comment on Pavarotti's cracks in Puritani our his transposition of Edgardo's last two arias?

[tonyantony1]

I'm not a wannabe musician,I I hold a diploma in piano from the conservatoire,you can't even read a score and you pretend to be an opera expert sucking Pavarotti up and trashing other tenors on famous arias.Learn how to read a score and listen to whole recordings of great tenors instead of waiting famous arias to be uploaded on youtube.

[tonyantony1]

ou are the one you sounds like a textbook ''Pav. was tuning on 4rth harmonic'',''di Stefano used open vowel formation'' you write everywhere the same crap.You suggested Kraus and Fleta used the Italian technique and Bjorling had an Italianate voice showing your ignorance.Maybe those you don't write ridiculous crap like you sound textbooks to you.

[Herur22]

TheInquisitive4Ever, you are saying that you love Gedda, yet you continue to find faults where no one else does (the thinned high C in Che gelida manina, bad voice projection in this aria etc). I wonder how it is that you never find faults in Pavarotti - for example I didn't see you criticizing HIS voice projection in this same aria, when his high (what?) practically wasn't heard besides Sutherland's.

[tonyantony1]

Dear Janja,

If you listen carefully to the Puritani duet with Sutherland and P.you would notice he cracked on the high D-flat and the final high B .Fortunately,Sutherland had a much bigger voice than P. and covered him quite well.

[Herur22]

I am going to listen once again :-)

[operagodess78]

What are you talking about?

[Herur22]

Ah no, you were not the one who wrote about the thinned high C.

[tonyantony1]

You should start listening to recordings of whole operas not just excepts of famous tenor arias posted on youtube.I recommend you to buy a good live recording of Lucia di Lammermoor and Puritani just to get a clue about opera and bel-canto.Then you can proceed to French opera getting a live recording of Kraus's Werther and Gedda's Faust...It would be a nice change for you listening to whole operas instead of insulting people and trashing on videos of popular tenor arias.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Tony-The Greek sodomite. I was watching (and hence listening) operatic performance live well before you were conceived in most reputable venues. Unlike you, what I comment on is something I have first hand experience with. As a 22 yo textbook swallower and a musician wannabe, you've got no such experience which is your loss. Your reasoning is as 2D as your experience.

[tonyantony1]

Inquisitor-white trash,you can't get any idea on vocal production by writing the same crap about Pavarotti's high notes you have read on a site.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Tony-Greek sodomite. I have actually seen Pava live many times along with quite a few others. Unlike you, I rely on first hand experience. What you rely on is your limited talent, some textbook knowledge, and 2D audiovisual experience.

[tonyantony1]

At the age of 46 Gedda sang Les Huguenots untransposed with many pianissimi high B,fortissimo high D's,high D-flats and high Cs,demanding coloratura and stratospheric tessitura while Pavarotti at that age had to hide himself behind the soprano on the high C of Ballo duet to conceal the fact that the so called ''King of high C's'' couldn't sustain a single high C.Pavarotti sang the Puritani duet transposed down and still cracked.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Tony-Greek sodomite. Ironically, what everybody in the opera world rightfully revers, you seem to decimate with your biased reality. Get a clue. You cannot cover the sun with mud you little fiddlestick.

[bigus]

@tonyantony1 its not a crack dude its a blurp or a bit of mucus on chords, everyone gets it if you were a singer you would know. if it was a crack he would have lost the note and not been able to finish sustaining it. a crack is when the voice goes from true voice and breaks into falsetto. you really dont get that back because the support failed and you couldnt sustain it in full voice anymore. having a degree in piano doesn't exactly make you an expert in vocalism altho i will respect your op.

[bigus]

@tonyantony1 you talk about cracking gedda had some of the worst cracks in tenor history because of his loose phonation, meaning there is still more air in the tone and much easier to flip into falsetto.

[Herur22]

@bigus

That crack was realy bad, but it happened when Gedda was 54 years old. You can't judge the technique on the basis of one crack after

27 years of career. By the way, it's usless to communicate with Tonyantony1, because he left Youtube some two years ago.

[tonyantony1]

Gedda's top got bigger just like Corelli not tighter.Get a clue, bel-canto singing is opposed to squillo,Bellini had in mind voix-mixte when he wrote that D's.That's why Gedda's top was so amazing it was huge edgeless and soft at the same time.Pavarotti was a mini Martinucci totally inappropriate for bel-canto roles.The voice should be soft and velvety not penetrating and edgy.

[bigus]

@tonyantony1 except that gedda's voice is about half the size of pavarotti's and the technique is totally different. gedda mixes falsetto with the tone and pavarotti sings in true voice. personally i like the true voice all the way through the best, and he has a great mezza voce even if he didnt float the high notes endlessly like gedda did his technique didnt allow for it you need partial falsetto like gedda uses for that.

[tonyantony1]

You get a clue stupid poseur you are taking about lack of projection you didn't notice Gedda's high D is bigger than Sutherland's and he totally drowned her out on the high C ,it's a pirate recording the mic is located at the same distance to both of them.Gedda's top got bigger just like Corelli not tighter as Pavarotti.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Tony-Greek sodomite. Cut the BS and get back to reality. Gedda was a top tenor all right. But you continue to slice reality to make it fit to you biased portrayal of Pavarotti, whom you also insulted with reference to his weight, alleged him as a tax evader although he was never convicted, and also suggested that his chairities were a fraud although he was a UN commissioned ambassador as well. You lack core honesty.

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Here Gedda doesn't tune into a resonance and therefore sounds white. While it is still quite pleasant even to my ear, it doesn't have the resonant characteristics one would normally look for. Given the high pitch, and the openness of the vocal production, it sounds like a yell of sorts -which I still find perfectly all right. Just keep things in proper context.

[Herur22]

To me it sounds very well projected and far from "white" and from yell.

[tonyantony1]

Criticizing Gedda's high notes is ridiculous he sang roles Pavarotti couldn't sing not even in his daydreams.

[bigus]

@tonyantony1 pavarotti wouldn't have ever sung them because his voice was too big for them. gedda is more of a leggiero tenor. if you want to compare gedda to someone more his fach compare him to lawrence brownlee who even at his young age dominates gedda in almost every regard imo. gedda was great i just find brownlee greater.

[gaytenor]

@bigus Gee I didn't know that a leggiero tenor could sing William Tell, Troyens, Le Prophete, Les Huguenots, etc., and where has the admirable Brownlee sung Romeo, Werther, I vespri Siciliani, etc. Maybe you and Mooorhe can have a joint shrine to immenso tenore. Gedda's high c'' at the end of the duel scene in Romeo is much fuller and more powerful than Bjorling's was and I don't know of Brownlee having sung Don Jose, Hoffmann, etc. Pavarotti's top is every bit as heady as Gedda's.

[bigus]

yep they can, and no geddas Cs were never more powerful or full than bjorlings it just an audio illusion, and no pavarottis top was not as heady as geddas. Gedda uses mixed falsetto pavarotti true voice exclusively except in his puritani high F which is pure falsetto. he didnt' mix the 2 gedda did. it sounds like his Cs are bigger because for his voice they ARE. but his voice was microscopic in core next to bjorling or corelli and even pavarotti who had a small voice but more CORE sound.

[bigus]

the reason being is that the emission is completely different. in core voice the highnotes use less air because the phonation is tighter. in the mixed voice the high notes use more air because its mixed falsetto. neither is better or worse, they just have different strengths and weaknesses.its fine that you like it, but dont get confused and think they just had different voices, they had vastly different productions also.also brownlee is still new give him time to add the roles to his rep.

[bigus]

its not about adding a shrine or idolizing a single person its about having enough understanding to know whats being done technically and who is doing it and why they are better or worse for what they do and why. dont start doing your normal thing here where you talk down to people because of your opinion.believe it or not there are people out there with a more in depth understanding of the voice than you have despite what you may think.lets not get into slinging insults or comparing YT manhood

[TheInquisitive4Ever]

Acoustic tricks? Tony-The Greek Sodomite. Thanks for showing your lack of understanding of vocal production. The superb projection comes from phase coherence which in turn is due to perfect tuning into a resonance mode (or its harmonic).That is by the way needs to be done. The wider the bandwidth (as in the case of Gedda in this example), the less the gain; hence the less the projection. And what some call "strained" is actually what is called free vocal production as it a resonance! Get a clue!

[Doooku]

Pavarotti's voice is so slim, "narrow", sometimes strained while Gedda's broad and relaxed.

[Doooku]

that was a fucking high E!!!!!

[tonyantony1]

It's 2 Ds and an C.Pavarotti did some tricks in the acoustics of his voice to make it very projected but that narrowly focused voice had edges.Gedda's voice had no edges ,even his high notes were round.

[bigus]

@tonyantony1 its called more air in the tone which makes it sound smoother but carries far less. pavarotti phonates tighter and his voice carries better as a result because the chords are vibrating more closely together. there are no tricks to it, its just called better technical production. geddas high notes are closer to falsetto and carry little wieght.

[Herur22]

@bigus

Now, Bigus, don't exagerate. Are you calling these high D's and a C here light voice, carying little weight? If Pavarotti's voice were twice as bigger as Gedda's, he will be a dramatic tenor, which he wasn't. And Gedda would not be able to sing Les Huguenots, Le Prophete, Guillaume Tell and others if he were a leggiero. Gedda used mezza voce when it was appropriate, but he was able to sing a stunning full-voice C when the score demanded it.

[gaytenor]

@bigus Please consult an ear specialist. Even Pavarotti said that Gedda had the best top. Gedda sanf Arturo's music in key in the last act while Pavarotti transposed sections of the last act down. Your comments are more hero worship than musical knowledge.

[bigus]

#1 its professional courtesy not to toot your own horn even if you know you are superior to someone you dont say you are, you let the fans decide.which they have in pavarottis favor.#2 it depends on what you mean by best top if by best you mean could sing highest with quality then of course. i can sing in mix up to high F and G but only C-D in true voice.again its the emission which makes what possible.#3 a good TRUE voice C will carry more than a mixed C because of the squillo.

[bigus]

however,i would go so far as to say that pavarotti had a better top than Gedda in the sense that his quality for his top was better because it was true voice and harder to do because it requires more support by far than mixed voice. you are keeping the core chest in the tone which shortens the chords calling for more suppport. for instance i think pavs Bb-B-C sound better and had more bite because there was less air in the tone.sure Gedda had a higher top but then he mixed, its a no brainer

[bigus]

in conclusion,it all comes back to rep.gedda was better at certain rep because of his production and could do things that pavarotti couldn't do with his. on the other hand Gedda couldnt make the manly sound that pavarotti could because of his production.so best is subjective based on what you want to hear.u have lots of interesting little factoids,but you dont know hardly anything about the actual instrument from anything i have seen from your posts.you like sling insults and talk down to others

[Herur22]

@bigus

It's a pity that you didn't address your tractate to the two guys you were discussing with. Now you can hardly expect an answer.

[bigus]

he/they know who they are and they still get the message @whoever just takes up spaces so i usually just delete it.

[tonyantony1]

In terms of voice he lacked a proper mezza voce and his high notes didn't have the power of Gedda. P. used to transpose down this duet since he did never produce a live high D.

[Doooku]

Gedda was way better than Pavarotti in everything.

[tonyantony1]

Certainly he was better than Pavarotti in every aspect.Pavarotti never had the style,the musicality,the elegance ,the dramatic skills of Gedda.

[AmorediPazzia]

This is very rare!

Could you upload 'Ah non giunge..' in this concert?

[Herur22]

Ah non giunge is from La sonnambula? Is that what you want?

[AmorediPazzia]

Yes!

[Herur22]

Done!

[AmorediPazzia]

Thank you!!

[AmorediPazzia]

Oh, I confused 'I Puritani' with 'La Sonnambula'... I wondered at your response but I become to know why you were ask again..!!