One of the slickest moves of all time, and one that you didn't comment on in the video: Watch very closely Joe Louis knock out Braddock. Braddock was pawing with his left hand, holding out too far. Louis threw a left hook at Braddock's left arm, opening him up for the knockout right hand.
IMO Joe Louis' footwork was underrated and yes his footwork is no where near the level of Muhammad Ali or even Larry Holmes but his footwork has enough speed to step outside a distance to avoid a blow. This video tells me that regardless of these giant heavyweights of nowadays, Joe Louis would obviously dominate this joke division of nowadays I mean the Klitschko's aren't bad but are facing the worst competition and if Joe Louis can KO a giant Primo Carnera then he certainly can KO these giants.
Joe Louis is my cousin. I can take you to the house where he was born at right now & they just built a statue of him in our hometown like almost a year ago in front of the courthouse.
@MrJoelouisbarrow You think i'm kidding? I'm related to him by my grandmother. Real talk. She passed in the early 2000s but they had a JLB celebration when his son came down to LaFayette, Al and they revealed his statue up in front of Chambers County courthouse. My grandmother and him are close related. Blood related. I won't give my grandmother's name but her last name is Brock. Ok though you have your own opinion.
You know, Back in those days a lot of fights were fixed and thrown. But when Louis KO'd people? That's the first time ko'd looked real. Guys were seriously put unconcious.
Poetry in motion. Either the best or 2nd best HW ever IMO (along with Ali). He had great skills, terrific ring control with the pace of the fight, perfect timing, and huge power in both hands with almost every punch.
Bookmarked. Louis is the textbook of boxing, and I could defiantly learn a few things in the ring by watching this. I'm going to implement some of tthese when i'm in the ring. He's just extraordinary..
También podrían ser: Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson; Ezzard Charles vs. Michael Spinks; Benny Leonard vs. Sandy Saddler; Jack Dempsey vs. Evander Holyfield.
Me van a tratar de loco, pero si tuviera una máquina del tiempo reuniría a estos genios y me gustaría ver estas peleas: Joe Louis vs. Muhammad Ali; Ray "Sugar"Robinson vs. "Mano de Piedra" Durán;Henry Armstrong vs. Pernell Whitaker;Harry Greb vs. Carlos Monzón;Willie Pep vs. Oscar De La Hoya; Ray "Sugar"Leonard vs. Julio César Chávez; Archie Moore vs. Tommy Hearns;Manny Pacquiao vs. Kid Gavilán. Opinen...
Great to see the Brown Bomber at work ! I think Louis was the best Heavyweight off all time , taking into account the following : variety, quality and power of punch. Simply unmatched by any other. He also has a great record of being in exciting fights , beat genuinely huge men and carried himself with dignity at all times. I would love to see Ali and Louis , but time robbed us all of the pleasure. I think styles make fights, and Joe Frazier would have been harder for Louis than Ali.
@brightspider Disagree on the part about Frazier. Actually the opposite is true stylistically. Frazier gives the most trouble to mobiel boxer like ali cause he cuts the ring and gives the out-boxer little choice but to fight him off which makes them vulnerable to his left hook. On the other hand Louis is a counter-puncher who excels at bringing his opponents into his power. Frazier gives any version of Ali absolute fits but is taken apart by Louis.
@coxscorner Fair point about Frazier ; he destroyed Jimmy Ellis , who was a mobile boxer , but had hell with a static Foreman. I was really saying that a left hooker like Frazier could cause trouble with Louis with his swarming intensity. I accept that Frazier could walk onto shots. Apologies if you have answered this before- who wins in a fight between Ali and Louis , at their respective peaks ? I would say Louis in a late round stoppage, 13-15 , or points. What a great matchup!
@sk8forlife90 tyson was a top fighter as his best, no question. Joe Louis was a great fighter, too. I don't get how you reckon Mike is better. Based on what ? Speed, power , guts ? Don't see an edge for Mike in those attributes. When did Tyson face adversity and win ? Louis did this repeatedly. When he lost to Schmelling, he came back to destroy him. Tyson lost to Holyfield in their first fight , and bit his ear off when losing the second fight. Great is great in any era. Heart counts
@brightspider louis was good at his time no question, but compared to the fighters today, and the fighters in the last 60 years, who couldn't compete with the caliber of fighters. the fighters today and in tysons time were so much more in shape. they much faster, stronger, better footwork, everything. the fighters today train much harder, and it pays off. back then they threw 1's and 2's, today they throw non stop punches in bunches. he simply couldn't compete with the athletes today.
@sk8forlife90 You have made your mind up despite evidence to prove you wrong. So Louis threw ones and twos ? He is regarded as a great combination puncher. How do fighters train harder ? Cos they lift weights? Old timers did fifteen rounds with ease; they were plenty fit enough! Apart from Mayweather and Pacquio, I don't rate many fighters today as great. Liston,Ali,Foreman and Frazier would have a field day with "athletes " like Klitchko and Haye. Back me up, someone.
@brightspider When you see comments as these, you can laugh or cry, but usually better to not waste your time responding. If you know boxing/fighting you know the old-timers were the real deal compared to todays pretenders concerning the sweet science.
@1saxonwolf Cheers for the backing,mate. I am obviously flogging a dead horse with sk8forlife90, so I won't bother arguing my point anymore. I'll just watch the "cut" fighters of today; didn't realise it was bodybuiding, not boxing !
@brightspider ha ha you are dead on right.the other factor to not looking as in shape,are the photos.the film,photos lack definition USUALLY.if u look around you can see louis[photos] was chiseled in a leaner smoother way[not as tight and bulky].listen here...louis went thru 8-10 sparring partners a day and worked himself into ungodly supreme shape.this guy was notoriously a workaholic in the gym.nobody is walkin on louis from TODAY .he would have murdered liston,ali,frazier,foreman..skill skill
@JcLeopard yes,of course ALL of them would be tuff.They're all world class top shelf fighters,that why i named them,and yes of course Ali would be a challenge.You dont just show up and beat these guys without a real fight, no matter who u are,but Louis could possibly prevail and there are a wealth of expert opinions out there that agree.its all hypothetical,and the answer is unknown.tell ya what,ali would not pull that stick and move hands down showboat crap on joe without serious consequences
@dempsey981 I agree Louis would beat that list of fighters. IMO here's two that would beat Louis, Dempsey & Tunney. In two very different ways. Dempsey via early KO, & Tunney late stoppage. 3 of the very best HW's.
@1saxonwolf wow.thats not opinion ive heard much but i can see the basis of your view,and there have been expert panels that agree with you on the dempsey account too.in 1950 Jack was voted best ever,and that was post peak louis,so theres your support.on tunney i can also see it,he was so meticulous in his fight plan,and tricky.based on billy conn,i gotta say yea tunney MIGHT have done it.tunney was a determined hard ass guy,smart and bigger than conn.Jack NEVER EVER beat a guy like Joe tho.
@dempsey981 Joe never beat a guy like Dempsey either !! Sharing my opinion; Fleischer, D. Morgan, T. Hayes, Arcel, Tunney, Sharkey, Schmeling, M. Walker to name a few.
Tunney view isn't shared as much. I think would have out boxed him 8 of 10 times. IMO Tunney very under rated, under appreciated. Said with GREAT appreciation of Joe Louis, one of the best.
@1saxonwolf well im not gonna sit here and argue AGAINST DEMPSEY!!yea joe never fought a jack dempsey for a fact.we're talkin a total dream fight here,niether ever faced the likes of the other.louis might have punched inside of jack,and he punched just as short and hard as jack.anything could happen.two superb pugilists.i only recently really understood tunney,he was special,and yer right,hes underated.i just wish i could see better footage of jack and gene.that would be great.
@sk8forlife90 the fighters today fight at much more intense paces, from bell to bell, every round. look at the fighters then, and look at them now. they are in ten times better shape today. i've never seen fighters back then as cut as they are today. the fighters then were much more clumsy and fought a lot slower. you can see that in videos of louis. watch boxing anytime it's on tv, you will see that most fighters are in much better shape. they throw more punches to.
@brightspider JERSEY JOE GOT THE BEST OF HIM IN THERE FIRST BOUT, But he will come back for rematch a ko Walcott. JERSEY JOE ANOTHER GREAT MASTER OF THE SWEET SCIENCE!!!
@cocacolaisgood Huge fan of Jersey Joe, too. My new name is dicktiger68-after another great "old timer". By the way, I think class is class in any era. I just hate it when people dismiss some of the greats of the past. Waiting for someone to slag off Sugar Ray Robinson next !
@coxscorner thank you for the reply, sorry for my ignorance in this topic but I have another question, what would happen if straight punches were just aimed to his head in that off centerline position
@pumpSHO If one simply aims at the head and throws a punch, then he moves his head. It doesn't always require a lot of movement. The simple act of raising his right fist (to protect the jaw from a left), leaning slightly away, and raising his left shoulder to protect the chin from a right not only makes the punch hit the glove or shoulder instead of the jaw, but also positions the left arm to jab back. Then he snaps a double jab.
That whole sequence flows naturally from the posture advised.
@pumpSHO Because straight punches are the best and if a punch is thrown directly straight the head is not there to be hit, you keep your chin down and hands up makes it harder to be hit cleanly and your opponent has to change angle of punch and it leaves him open for counter. There is no physiological problem with this and foot placement helps.
@WatchTheLeftHook - Tysons subtle skills? How about Tysons subtle heart? It ought to be criminal to mention the tin mans name in the same breath as Joe Louis.
@1899sharkey watch tysons early fights it shows off all of his weaving skills slipping turning of his punches ducking hooks straight overhand rights after his opponent jabs low how to evade an uppercut or block and uppercut his body jab as his opponent threw thier jab also just how to beat a 7 inch taller man then you also he mastered the peek a boo style better then anyone and for you to call the youngest heayweight champion with the fastest ko in history a tin man is just jealousy
@WatchTheLeftHook -Everything you babbled on about dont mean shit because if he were to meet any of the atg's his heart would give out. Had only average endurance at best and he sure wasn't gonna k.o. any of the atg's. Very overated, fought in one of the worst eras ever. Idiots babble on about being the youngest champ but he was the youngest to ever lose his title ( to a clubfighter who lost his own first defense. Power way overated, foreman might kill him.
@1899sharkey everything i babbled on about dont mean shit so why would you respond back, atg's are opinions , and you are only mentioning bad things about the champion anybody can mention bad things about ppl like foreman getting knocked out by ali or ali losing to his student larry holmes or marciano fighting bums everybody has things they have done wrong your obviously a hater
@WatchTheLeftHook -You're finally right about something. 40 years in boxing and Tyson is the only fighter i've ever hated. That has nothing to do with how i think about him as a fighter. It's what you dont see that was Tysons weakness. It's easy to look great against bums but how did he fare against other great fighters. A good jab and strong heart beats him every time. He weould have been just another contender in late 60's early 70's.
@1899sharkey yes tyson was weak in many areas ill give you that but the bottom line is with the amount of boxing knowledge learned in a short period of time he was pretty damn good . well reggie gross ,larry holmes, frank bruno carl williams and tyrell biggs had great jabs its just early on in tysons career he was great at slipping the jab no matter the speed or frequency about 4 years later tyson was a bum i will admit that he had no head movement or anything but anyway he is the best to me .
@coxscorner what modern fighter best resembles this style it doesn't have to a be a big name but that would help so i could watch a detailed film i see you have b-hop on your channel is that as close as it gets?
@vajinater bhop is so great because he learnt to stand before he through a punch, witch these days is so uncommon, and thats why he is still taking the young guys apart, ever hear walk before you can run? the 2nd best inside fighter of all time, (HW) is riddick bowe, its all opinion mind you.
@pumpSHO if you have ever boxed you know that the jab is used the most and having your heas off center means your opponent cant throw his left hand jab at your face.
Excellent video. Some fight fans tend to underrate Louis because he got decked by some guys who were hardly in his class, like Tony Galento. They therefore conclude that Joe couldn't box, that his balance was crummy, etc.. This vid demonstrates how wrong they are. It also displays Joe's overwhelming power with SHORT punches. Six inches, maybe five, were PLENTY. No doubt about it, Louis was one of the top ten great heavyweights.
they should make a program that fixes old film by filling in the missing frames and stuff with computer generated animation....at some point in the future
No doubt Joe Louis was the Greatest heavyweight of all time. All the experts and historians agree. Bert Sugar, Eddie Futch, even Joe Frazier and George Foreman.
@Poptartwizard34 bert sugar,expert historian??,,nahhh.dont let the hat and cigar fool ya.ill take eddie futch as a qualified opinion though,frazier,and george are qualified too.louis was fabulous,i agree.
Joe was the man everybody knows it, put it this way.........id rather see ALI ( or clay ) down a dark alley ( no fag, gay etc intended ) than LOUIS , any day of the credit crunch week....R. I P MARCIANO
@brewepau my thoughts exactly. Boxing continues to evolve as the accumulated information from all time greats spreads AND also becomes more readily available. As time progresses, there is less to be seen that has not been seen before.
Thanks for posting this, coxscorner. It's a superb teaching tool to help people see why Joe was so great. I could see a lot more after I viewed your contribution here. Thanks again!
All these woulda, coulda ,shouda, about the coward Tyson. If ifs and buts were nuts and berries we'd all have a merry x-mas.His lack of heart would have surfaced against any great champ.
''Ali is the greatest of all time '' hahahahaha i can't hear this shit anymore !! Joe Louis would destroy Ali ! Ali has some close fights against fighters which are not near at Joe Louis class(a few... Cooper,Young,Norton) !! What if Liston and Foreman would go the distance with Ali ?!?! This case would be against Louis,he would go the distance,he hits more accurte than Foreman and Liston and nearly that hard but much faster ! Louis would DESTROY Ali !!!!!!!
@ugly444444 how true :) but , louis punches are more damaging than liston/foremans, just because of speed and accuracy. and dont forget his smooth combinatorics.
I´ve seen the difference to the heavys nowadays. It´s a myth, that todays heavys are better. F.E. look at Klitschkos: somewhat amateurish, no good offense, no good defense, no slipping. No masterfull boxing at all. I´m German and a heavyweight myself, but the German heavys don´t know the sweet science. I never understood the gloryfying in our media.
Against Tillis, Tyson stook straight up rather than bob and weave, and Tillis' strategy had a lot to do with this. When he was thrown off his game, Tyson had no plan B. As for Razor Ruddock, let's not put much stock in Tyson's victories over him. Ruddock never defeated a top heavyweight, so a win over him wasn't like defeating even a Jerry Quarry back in the day.
@vidnut: Partyboy Tyson after Douglas huh? Hell his technique and skills had already unravelled greatly during the 8 month layoff when he left Rooney, evident in first Bruno fight. But make no mistake, he was an awesome beast against Ruddock in 1991 and turned Razor into damaged goods through those brutal 19 rounds. It was after prison, when he return in 1995 that Tyson was no longer great.
@IntergalaticRape agreed. When somone asked Tyson at an evening I attended last year who the hardest puncher he ever faced was, he answered "Razor Ruddock hit me harder than anyone ever did"
I also believe that he won his two fights previous to Douglas on pure fear-factor and was never the same again after prison.
Let's not forget that other fighters who had a layoff (notably Ali) were able to train and eat well, whereas Tyson was in the pen living off Prison rations..
I've been reading your responses as well as others concerning Tyson, and I respect your opinions, but let's not forget this: the seeds were being sown for the disaster in Tokyo long before Kevin Rooney passed out of the picture; listening to an account by Teddy Atlas is proof enough of this. Just look at a tape of his fight with "Quick" Tillis in '86 during his so-called glory period; he's making the same mistakes as he did against Douglas, only Tillis didn't have the power to take advantage.
@vidnut67 Cus D'Amato had a lot to do with Tyson's downfall and Teddy Atlas spotted it early and tried to warn Cus but he wouldn't listen. For example, when Tyson would misbehave in any way, Cus D'Amato wouldn't punish Tyson for what he did. There was one instance where Tyson went on one of his rampages and Atlas kicked Tyson out of the gym (This was of course when Tyson was still a child). But the next day Cus allowed Tyson back in the gym. Bottom line, no discipline fot Tyson.
Exactly. According to Atlas, the breaking point is when he learned that Tyson had tried to proposition one of his nieces. He confronted Tyson at the gym, put a gun to Tyson's head, and threatened to kill him if he ever did it again. Atlas was subsequently fired, sadly. I stated earlier that Tyson had no character, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have developed it. Too many people who saw dollar signs would not say no, and that set him up to fail.
@vidnut67 Yea, its a damn shame, but oh well. There have been some great champions since Tyson. The one thing about Tyson that I wish could have happened the most is this. I wish he had won his rematch with Holyfield because that would have set the stage for Holyfield vs Tyson 3. A triology with these two fighters would have been as huge as Holyfield vs Bowe and maybe as big as Ali vs Frazier and it would have been an appropriate ending for their fights as opposed to the ear bite.
If Tyson had perhaps had some tougher fights before winning the title-and there were some tough heavyweights left off the resume prior to Berbick-I feel he would have reacted differently in tough situations such as those he faced with Holyfield and Douglas. For all his talent, he became champion too quickly. Only Leon Spinks had a faster ascent.
Tyson was a prodigy, and such a description is hazardous to a boxer's long-term development and health. Look what happened to Wilfred Benitez. A three-division champion by age 22; a shot fighter by 25.
Interesting that Larry Holmes, four long years before Indianapolis, said that Tyson would wind up in jail. Quite a prophetic statement on the surface, yet everyone in the business knew that regardless of Tyson's media image 1985-88, he had not moderated his behavior outside the ring. The reason Jim Jacobs had him fighting so often then is because he knew Tyson would wind up in trouble otherwise.
Cus D'Amato, ironically in Tyson's case, once said while Tyson was still in diapers that a great fighter, beside having the natural ability, had to have character. Pity that he didn't live to see the fact that his last protege had none, in or out of the ring. Tyson never came from behind on points to win, and he never recovered from a knockdown to win. The truly great fighters (Ali, Louis, Robinson, and Holmes come to mind) looked pissed off when they got floored. Tyson simply quit.
You sound bitter and angry with your comments about Tyson. If you don't like him just say so don't try to act like you provide an objective analysis of him.
Whether this comes off as objective is of no concern to me; this is only my opinion, and I followed him from the beginning. Bitter and angry? I never knew the guy personally, and he never did anything to me. If anything, I was disappointed in him. He was capable of so much more, and he didn't do it, and in the end not only did he suffer but so did boxing.
To change the topic I'd have to say that I'm not a fan of the 70s era of hw boxing. I think it's highly overrated and exaggerated by the so called boxing analysts, and I'm not impressed with the era in general.
I really can't say anything negative about Joe Louis. As far as legacy is concerned I think Louis is the clear cut top hw of all-time.
One thing I'm going to point out that I see and then I'll leave it at that about your comments. As swedishtysonfan mentioned your comments are not without merit but your point of view is a bit one sided (the glass is half empty rather than half full). I'm well aware of the negative aspects of Tyson's career.
I probably wouldn't have cared much for boxing if Tyson never existed.....
You're right in some ways but also you put down his best wins.If a Louis or Marciano had beaten a Ruddock or Stewart they had been hailed as conqurers over the power hitting monsters but when Mike does it they was nothing to begin with.
I belive Tyson proved something in both the Tucker fight and Douglas fight-heart and will to win!!!
I agree with you though,past prime against Holy he wanted out....
Everyone lists this guy as the best. I wish I could see his techniques better but the videos are always bad. I can't see jack and I guess that's why I'm not a boxer.
That was a wonderful video. Interesting comments too, boxing speculation from armchair experts makes for some funny/interesting/horrifying reading. For mine, I am glad you highlighted how good Joe's footwork actually was - it was footwork used to a specific end, which wasn't so much evasion as a tactical and distance tool, more subtle, but as Louis' record reminds me, not less effective! Certainly IMHO the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time, and with a smart lip too!
Someone posted that Louis's trainer J. Blackburn said that Jack Johnson would beat Louis any day of the week. Anyone read anything concerning that statement?
Well thats bull. Will poster please give source so i can go look it up myself. I have many newspaper and magazine articles with Blackburn quotes and he never says this.
Anything can be transferred to a southpaw stance from an orthodox stance. Just apply it correctly. Thats the way i see it. Just reverse the technique from orthodox to southpaw and it will be in a southpaw stance. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO IT CORRECTLY. For instance im a orthodox, when i try to practice my southpaw in the same style i notice i cant do it the same way. So youll have to correct the minor mistakes if you get what im saying.
Louis was the best no question his combination of power ,speed , agression and boxing skills were almost beyond belief , I just wonder thought as to the quality in the heavyweight divion during the Louis era, I dont rate his opposition too highly, or was joe just so good he made the others look poor. Also I dont think Gene Tunney gets his dues, of the 30 rounds he boxed agianst Dempsey he lost just 1 round, he thrashed Dempsey who is regarded as one of the all time greats, what do think coxy.
I think Tunney is a little under rated but he did not have many fights at heavywt. I tend to rate him at 175 where he fought most of his career. He beat Dempsey but one who had clearly lost it. He was good but his jab was more of s defensive weapon whereas Louis jab felt like "someone smashed a light bulb into your face." Louis has too many weapons for Tunney to overcome and Gene was not small like Conn so he couold not go underneath and around Louis as easily. I like Louis by Tko late.
#1 Tunney had much better footwork than Conn,He could move around him much more skillfully. #2 Conn was 6ft 1 1/2 tall. Tunney at 6ft 1. So "Tunney not able to go underneath as easy " based on size is BS. Pastor was 5 111/2. Lets be honest. Louis had problems against slick boxers. Tunney could punch. Dempsey said it. So did tom Gibbons. As you have said, Styles make fights. Tunney poses real problems for anyone. He beats him 8 out of 10 times.
@faltagh I disagree. Tunney did noit have "much better footwork than Conn." Further Louis drained and dehydrated himself to come to 200 pounds and was not at peak form. Pastor was kod in 11 for the title. Tunney never met anyone with the ramrod jab of Joe Louis, nor his combination punching. Louis was not a swarming pressure fighter but a master boxer/ counterpuncher with a great punch in either hand. Louis also poses real problems for anyone. Tunney would be dis-sected by Louis.
@coxs. I stand by my "footwork" statement. "not at peak form" could be used anytime by anyone. In 37', Pastor went the distance. My opinion, Dempsey punches harder than Louis. Tunney without doubt could take a shot. Can't say the same for Louis. Louis would be dis-sected by Tunney.
I agree about the positive attributes of Louis. A real problem for anyone. We just don't agree about Gene Tunney.
What did Tunney do at heavy besides beat a faded Dempsey? Nothing to suggest he beats Louis. The sharper Jack of a few years earlier would have finished Tunney off, IMO.
Furthermore, the Dempsey fights have given the false impression that Tunney was some kind of unhittable phantom, when in reality he wasn't all that hard to hit. Most of Tunney's KOs were against journeymen or aged greats.
Godoy, Baer, Braddock, Conn etc could all take a shot too. Didn't do them much good against Louis.
@faltagh Wait, what? Louis had twenty pounds on Dempsey! They were both world-class punchers, and when two men are both skilled and powerful, size can and must play a decisive difference when comparing their punching power
Pound for pound, you could make an argument- though still not a strong one considering that the greater endurance required for Dempsey-era fighters compared with Louis' era strongly disincentivized developing large muscles, which are good for power but bad for stamina.
@ooogooman Louis didn't have 20lbs on Dempsey ! Louis weighed a little under/ over 200lbs most of his career. Dempsey mostly 190 lbs. Measurement wise virtually the same. Dempsey trained down in weight for speed. The only fighter to fight both, Jack Sharkey, has said that Dempsey was the harder puncher.
If Louis was the supreme counter-puncher, Dempsey was the most complete pressure fighter. Many an expert thought Dempsey would beat Louis. Myself included.
I disagree. In rematch vs Schmeling he didnt get hit with one right hand. Galento caught him with a left hook, Braddock he ducked into an uppercut. When you are trying to take your opponents head off you are in position to be hit. But he was not more suspectible because of his stance, and the past prime Louis doesn't count in my book.
Forget "boxing" for a second because he was great at that too. I'm talking about when Louis decided to go all out and unload his arsenal either because he wanted to or was forced to...was there anybody better in the HW division in history?
Personally I've always felt this was the most dangerous version of Louis. It just seemed you would rather have him box you then have him decide to send the cavalry in.
When Louis started unloading his big guns the veteran fight fans would reach for their hats cause they knew it was over. Fleischer considered Louis the greatest finisher in boxing history. When Louis had you hurt it was only a matter of time. As a fighter few were better, maybe Dempsey in pure aggression. But Louis was the total package.
Interesting documentary, and it's interesting that you brought up Schmeling. Experts who discuss the loss to Schmeling in '36 overlook the fact that he was only a pro two years at that point. It took a beating like that to teach him that you don't give a fighter like that room to punch, and he certainly didn't in the rematch.
It was mainly his lazy jab that let him down in that fight. It was a beautiful offensive weaping for working his way in or stepping back off but he never brought it back ready to stop a right hand so Schmeling just fired over the top. Still took him about 40 flush right hands to finish Louis though, helluva man.
That's exactly the flaw Schmeling mentioned when asked if Louis had a weakness. Still, lazy jab or no, it's hard to hit your opponent full force if he's in your chest as Louis was in the 1938 rematch. Look at how much distance he gave Max in the first fight as opposed to the rematch.
This is true, and his jab definitely looked sharper. The blackburn style fighters were so much more technical than most of the top guys in those days. The last moments of that match still make me wince for max.
I can understand why. That shot to the back as Schmeling turned away could have paralyzed him. Louis was definitely out for blood that night. He told the press before the rematch that he was scared, "Scared that I might kill him."
I agree, but I believe that the loss took something physically out of Louis. Boxing historian Bert Sugar noted that after that fight, there was a vulnerability to right hands that hadn't been there before. A friend of Louis recently stated that Louis took 72 right hands to the head that night.
Louis never was realistically in the fight that night and by his own admission had no memory of anything after round five. If he indeed was that out of it, one wonders why Jack Blackburn didn't stop it earlier than it was. I don't care how great you are, a beating like that stays with you, and it is a testament to Louis' greatness that he wasn't a shot fighter after that. Most fighters after a beating like that in boxing history have not been that lucky. Tyson after Douglas comes to mind.
@vidnut67 true... If you take a beating for several rounds, that marks you for life. For me, the best example is Ali/Frazier 3.
As far as Tyson goes, personally I believe that he was already in freefall before he fought Douglas and lost to him as a result. My personal belief is that losing his Catskill connections began the end of Tyson's domination.
Funny Louis said he never remembered anything after round 5. Ali said the same thing when he fought Shavers (I think it was round 3).
Great video. Louis was amazing with all the moves he had. He knew how to work the angles. Notice how he turns his hip when he pinches. This gives him full power and also puts him in a defensive position once he has thrown it. Fighters today for the most part just walk straight in and hit each other. Louis moved side to side. He would dominate today as no one is being talk these skills anymore.
Comment on boxing and Joe Louis the fighter, political, controversial and/or information on them as a person that has nothing to do with boxing will be deleted. You can comment on other boxers to so long as its relevent.
jack jhonson said joe would get ko'd by right hand counters, then he did. is this cause he is fundementaly flawed by sitting his head of to the right whiles hes at a distance, wich i have heard and experienced as a no no in boxing?
No. A couple lead to Joe Louis early loss, 1) Max Schmeling was a smart fighter who noticed Louis dropped his left after jabbing and was able to counter him over the top. The same thing happened to Lennox Lewis against McCall. 2) Louis was poorly trained for the fight doing his training on the golf course. After that he corrected both errors, and made a perfect adjustement in the rematch and destroyed Schmeling in one round.
What exactly is there for Tunney to teach such a remarkable boxer? Gene was a great defensive boxer, but skill wise, Joe had no holes. As for Dempsey...did you just write that to be controversial and to get a response?
We'll never know who would win out of Ali and Louis. Remember, Ali could really take a punch, was bigger and had much faster footwork, although, Frazier beat Ali, and Frazier was no Joe Louis!
I agree with everything you have said and it was well put too but to say he would soundly outpoint Louis or stop him late on i dont think you can say that, no one knows, Louis could stop Ali late on, its an even fight and when you are talking about the most devestating natural puncher in the history of boxing anything can happen.
in terms of achievement, on paper, Louis is clearly the greatest heavyweight of all time...BUT if you look a little deeper, you will soon realize Louis never fought anyone with the strength or ability of a Sonny Liston, or George Foreman, Frazier, or even Norton...Ali fought a much higher class of opponent than Louis ever did...Ali beat monsters like foreman and Liston, he would have soundly outpointed Louis or stopped him late.the 60's and 70's really where the golden era of heavyweight boxing
I dont think liston took a dive, if you look at the video in slow motion you can see Ali's trademark "Ancor Punch" basically rip his jaw right from his head. I believe that would knock anyone out .. Thats the thing about Ali, everbody under estimates his punching power. Then again this is only my opinion maybe he did take a dive only Sonny knows the truth.
The punch had no power on it, not enough to crack Liston's chin. Sonny's awful acting on the canvas gave the game away.
Ali fought almost 100 rounds with Norton, Patterson and Spinks, 3 all-time soft chinned heavy champs, and got 1 credited knockdown. Where was the anchor punch against them? Where was the anchor punch against Cooper, Mildenberger, Young, Terrell, Jones, Lubbers etc, all far lesser chins than Liston.
One of the slickest moves of all time, and one that you didn't comment on in the video: Watch very closely Joe Louis knock out Braddock. Braddock was pawing with his left hand, holding out too far. Louis threw a left hook at Braddock's left arm, opening him up for the knockout right hand.
bwv878 3 weeks ago
IMO Joe Louis' footwork was underrated and yes his footwork is no where near the level of Muhammad Ali or even Larry Holmes but his footwork has enough speed to step outside a distance to avoid a blow. This video tells me that regardless of these giant heavyweights of nowadays, Joe Louis would obviously dominate this joke division of nowadays I mean the Klitschko's aren't bad but are facing the worst competition and if Joe Louis can KO a giant Primo Carnera then he certainly can KO these giants.
Brownpride480 2 months ago
Joe Louis is my cousin. I can take you to the house where he was born at right now & they just built a statue of him in our hometown like almost a year ago in front of the courthouse.
MrAUFANATIC 2 months ago
@MrAUFANATIC haha good joke bro
MrJoelouisbarrow 2 months ago
@MrJoelouisbarrow You think i'm kidding? I'm related to him by my grandmother. Real talk. She passed in the early 2000s but they had a JLB celebration when his son came down to LaFayette, Al and they revealed his statue up in front of Chambers County courthouse. My grandmother and him are close related. Blood related. I won't give my grandmother's name but her last name is Brock. Ok though you have your own opinion.
MrAUFANATIC 2 months ago
so he revolutionized that defensive tactical boxing that current boxers does such as mayweather or what??
unknownuser4rm 4 months ago
@unknownuser4rm
exactly. Especially counter punching
unioncity 4 months ago
One thing I dont understand. He keeps his elbows and hands at body. And he keeps his head at an angle. But how does he avoid head shots?
neilsenti55 4 months ago
@neilsenti55 simple and un-exaggerated head movements.
CoffeeBeatsTea 3 months ago
my favorite heavyweight ever. he had perfect form and people don't realize what a complete fighter he was.
Robstailey 5 months ago
Great vid. These are of real value to the boxing fan, the way you slow things down and analyze them. Thank you.
charliekkendo 5 months ago
my most favourite Heavyweights, Louis and Marciano
TooBloodyEasy 6 months ago
So....uh....did anyone else get up and do the charleston?
1822138 6 months ago
Very good video. Thank you!
mankon33 6 months ago
You know, Back in those days a lot of fights were fixed and thrown. But when Louis KO'd people? That's the first time ko'd looked real. Guys were seriously put unconcious.
VCthaGOATdunker 7 months ago
Poetry in motion. Either the best or 2nd best HW ever IMO (along with Ali). He had great skills, terrific ring control with the pace of the fight, perfect timing, and huge power in both hands with almost every punch.
zenmachinefilms 8 months ago
Thanks coxcorner. This was great analysis and examples of Joe Louis' style. Seeing everything in slow motion explained was illuminating.
Alexei808 8 months ago
Bookmarked. Louis is the textbook of boxing, and I could defiantly learn a few things in the ring by watching this. I'm going to implement some of tthese when i'm in the ring. He's just extraordinary..
grizzygrazzy 9 months ago
7 people dont understand boxing skills.
slamminsammy35 9 months ago
También podrían ser: Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Johnson; Ezzard Charles vs. Michael Spinks; Benny Leonard vs. Sandy Saddler; Jack Dempsey vs. Evander Holyfield.
rbrtdornel 9 months ago
Me van a tratar de loco, pero si tuviera una máquina del tiempo reuniría a estos genios y me gustaría ver estas peleas: Joe Louis vs. Muhammad Ali; Ray "Sugar"Robinson vs. "Mano de Piedra" Durán;Henry Armstrong vs. Pernell Whitaker;Harry Greb vs. Carlos Monzón;Willie Pep vs. Oscar De La Hoya; Ray "Sugar"Leonard vs. Julio César Chávez; Archie Moore vs. Tommy Hearns;Manny Pacquiao vs. Kid Gavilán. Opinen...
rbrtdornel 9 months ago
my grandfather always said louis was the best.i guess maybe he in fact was!
dempsey981 10 months ago
Joe Louis is one of the smartest heavyweight fighters ever...
LBomber100 11 months ago
louis was an extremely polished big man. he threw beautiful short punches with great accuracy. he used to disect his opponenrs. pure class
propergeezer 11 months ago
Great to see the Brown Bomber at work ! I think Louis was the best Heavyweight off all time , taking into account the following : variety, quality and power of punch. Simply unmatched by any other. He also has a great record of being in exciting fights , beat genuinely huge men and carried himself with dignity at all times. I would love to see Ali and Louis , but time robbed us all of the pleasure. I think styles make fights, and Joe Frazier would have been harder for Louis than Ali.
brightspider 11 months ago
@brightspider Disagree on the part about Frazier. Actually the opposite is true stylistically. Frazier gives the most trouble to mobiel boxer like ali cause he cuts the ring and gives the out-boxer little choice but to fight him off which makes them vulnerable to his left hook. On the other hand Louis is a counter-puncher who excels at bringing his opponents into his power. Frazier gives any version of Ali absolute fits but is taken apart by Louis.
coxscorner 11 months ago
@coxscorner Fair point about Frazier ; he destroyed Jimmy Ellis , who was a mobile boxer , but had hell with a static Foreman. I was really saying that a left hooker like Frazier could cause trouble with Louis with his swarming intensity. I accept that Frazier could walk onto shots. Apologies if you have answered this before- who wins in a fight between Ali and Louis , at their respective peaks ? I would say Louis in a late round stoppage, 13-15 , or points. What a great matchup!
brightspider 11 months ago
@brightspider he just isn't the caliber of fighter as they have today. mike tyson could have easily beat him. he would have been meat to tyson.
sk8forlife90 10 months ago
@sk8forlife90 tyson was a top fighter as his best, no question. Joe Louis was a great fighter, too. I don't get how you reckon Mike is better. Based on what ? Speed, power , guts ? Don't see an edge for Mike in those attributes. When did Tyson face adversity and win ? Louis did this repeatedly. When he lost to Schmelling, he came back to destroy him. Tyson lost to Holyfield in their first fight , and bit his ear off when losing the second fight. Great is great in any era. Heart counts
brightspider 10 months ago
@brightspider louis was good at his time no question, but compared to the fighters today, and the fighters in the last 60 years, who couldn't compete with the caliber of fighters. the fighters today and in tysons time were so much more in shape. they much faster, stronger, better footwork, everything. the fighters today train much harder, and it pays off. back then they threw 1's and 2's, today they throw non stop punches in bunches. he simply couldn't compete with the athletes today.
sk8forlife90 10 months ago
@sk8forlife90 You have made your mind up despite evidence to prove you wrong. So Louis threw ones and twos ? He is regarded as a great combination puncher. How do fighters train harder ? Cos they lift weights? Old timers did fifteen rounds with ease; they were plenty fit enough! Apart from Mayweather and Pacquio, I don't rate many fighters today as great. Liston,Ali,Foreman and Frazier would have a field day with "athletes " like Klitchko and Haye. Back me up, someone.
brightspider 10 months ago
@brightspider When you see comments as these, you can laugh or cry, but usually better to not waste your time responding. If you know boxing/fighting you know the old-timers were the real deal compared to todays pretenders concerning the sweet science.
1saxonwolf 10 months ago
@1saxonwolf Cheers for the backing,mate. I am obviously flogging a dead horse with sk8forlife90, so I won't bother arguing my point anymore. I'll just watch the "cut" fighters of today; didn't realise it was bodybuiding, not boxing !
brightspider 10 months ago
@1saxonwolf i agree,generally the old timers had high skill levels,but some do now also.
dempsey981 10 months ago
@brightspider ha ha you are dead on right.the other factor to not looking as in shape,are the photos.the film,photos lack definition USUALLY.if u look around you can see louis[photos] was chiseled in a leaner smoother way[not as tight and bulky].listen here...louis went thru 8-10 sparring partners a day and worked himself into ungodly supreme shape.this guy was notoriously a workaholic in the gym.nobody is walkin on louis from TODAY .he would have murdered liston,ali,frazier,foreman..skill skill
dempsey981 10 months ago
@dempsey981 I highly doubt that. Everybody you just named would give Joe Louis a tough fight and I say that Ali would give him fits.
JcLeopard 9 months ago
@JcLeopard yes,of course ALL of them would be tuff.They're all world class top shelf fighters,that why i named them,and yes of course Ali would be a challenge.You dont just show up and beat these guys without a real fight, no matter who u are,but Louis could possibly prevail and there are a wealth of expert opinions out there that agree.its all hypothetical,and the answer is unknown.tell ya what,ali would not pull that stick and move hands down showboat crap on joe without serious consequences
dempsey981 9 months ago
@dempsey981 I agree Louis would beat that list of fighters. IMO here's two that would beat Louis, Dempsey & Tunney. In two very different ways. Dempsey via early KO, & Tunney late stoppage. 3 of the very best HW's.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@1saxonwolf wow.thats not opinion ive heard much but i can see the basis of your view,and there have been expert panels that agree with you on the dempsey account too.in 1950 Jack was voted best ever,and that was post peak louis,so theres your support.on tunney i can also see it,he was so meticulous in his fight plan,and tricky.based on billy conn,i gotta say yea tunney MIGHT have done it.tunney was a determined hard ass guy,smart and bigger than conn.Jack NEVER EVER beat a guy like Joe tho.
dempsey981 9 months ago
@dempsey981 Joe never beat a guy like Dempsey either !! Sharing my opinion; Fleischer, D. Morgan, T. Hayes, Arcel, Tunney, Sharkey, Schmeling, M. Walker to name a few.
Tunney view isn't shared as much. I think would have out boxed him 8 of 10 times. IMO Tunney very under rated, under appreciated. Said with GREAT appreciation of Joe Louis, one of the best.
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@1saxonwolf well im not gonna sit here and argue AGAINST DEMPSEY!!yea joe never fought a jack dempsey for a fact.we're talkin a total dream fight here,niether ever faced the likes of the other.louis might have punched inside of jack,and he punched just as short and hard as jack.anything could happen.two superb pugilists.i only recently really understood tunney,he was special,and yer right,hes underated.i just wish i could see better footage of jack and gene.that would be great.
dempsey981 9 months ago
@dempsey981 Keep checking new posts, bit by bit the films r getting cleaned up. They r better than what was up even a year ago. Never know !
1saxonwolf 9 months ago
@sk8forlife90 the fighters today fight at much more intense paces, from bell to bell, every round. look at the fighters then, and look at them now. they are in ten times better shape today. i've never seen fighters back then as cut as they are today. the fighters then were much more clumsy and fought a lot slower. you can see that in videos of louis. watch boxing anytime it's on tv, you will see that most fighters are in much better shape. they throw more punches to.
sk8forlife90 10 months ago
@brightspider JERSEY JOE GOT THE BEST OF HIM IN THERE FIRST BOUT, But he will come back for rematch a ko Walcott. JERSEY JOE ANOTHER GREAT MASTER OF THE SWEET SCIENCE!!!
cocacolaisgood 7 months ago
@cocacolaisgood Huge fan of Jersey Joe, too. My new name is dicktiger68-after another great "old timer". By the way, I think class is class in any era. I just hate it when people dismiss some of the greats of the past. Waiting for someone to slag off Sugar Ray Robinson next !
dicktiger68 7 months ago
@dicktiger68 Awsome
cocacolaisgood 7 months ago
@coxscorner thank you for the reply, sorry for my ignorance in this topic but I have another question, what would happen if straight punches were just aimed to his head in that off centerline position
pumpSHO 1 year ago
@pumpSHO If one simply aims at the head and throws a punch, then he moves his head. It doesn't always require a lot of movement. The simple act of raising his right fist (to protect the jaw from a left), leaning slightly away, and raising his left shoulder to protect the chin from a right not only makes the punch hit the glove or shoulder instead of the jaw, but also positions the left arm to jab back. Then he snaps a double jab.
That whole sequence flows naturally from the posture advised.
eclecticradical 1 year ago
Comment removed
eclecticradical 1 year ago
why does having your head off centerline good?
is there any physiological problems doing so?
pumpSHO 1 year ago
@pumpSHO Because straight punches are the best and if a punch is thrown directly straight the head is not there to be hit, you keep your chin down and hands up makes it harder to be hit cleanly and your opponent has to change angle of punch and it leaves him open for counter. There is no physiological problem with this and foot placement helps.
coxscorner 1 year ago
@coxscorner good explanation
WatchTheLeftHook 9 months ago
@coxscorner thanks for this one i think the next one you should do is show tysons subtle skills
WatchTheLeftHook 9 months ago
@WatchTheLeftHook - Tysons subtle skills? How about Tysons subtle heart? It ought to be criminal to mention the tin mans name in the same breath as Joe Louis.
1899sharkey 8 months ago
@1899sharkey watch tysons early fights it shows off all of his weaving skills slipping turning of his punches ducking hooks straight overhand rights after his opponent jabs low how to evade an uppercut or block and uppercut his body jab as his opponent threw thier jab also just how to beat a 7 inch taller man then you also he mastered the peek a boo style better then anyone and for you to call the youngest heayweight champion with the fastest ko in history a tin man is just jealousy
WatchTheLeftHook 8 months ago
@WatchTheLeftHook -Everything you babbled on about dont mean shit because if he were to meet any of the atg's his heart would give out. Had only average endurance at best and he sure wasn't gonna k.o. any of the atg's. Very overated, fought in one of the worst eras ever. Idiots babble on about being the youngest champ but he was the youngest to ever lose his title ( to a clubfighter who lost his own first defense. Power way overated, foreman might kill him.
1899sharkey 8 months ago
@1899sharkey everything i babbled on about dont mean shit so why would you respond back, atg's are opinions , and you are only mentioning bad things about the champion anybody can mention bad things about ppl like foreman getting knocked out by ali or ali losing to his student larry holmes or marciano fighting bums everybody has things they have done wrong your obviously a hater
WatchTheLeftHook 8 months ago
@WatchTheLeftHook -You're finally right about something. 40 years in boxing and Tyson is the only fighter i've ever hated. That has nothing to do with how i think about him as a fighter. It's what you dont see that was Tysons weakness. It's easy to look great against bums but how did he fare against other great fighters. A good jab and strong heart beats him every time. He weould have been just another contender in late 60's early 70's.
1899sharkey 8 months ago
@1899sharkey yes tyson was weak in many areas ill give you that but the bottom line is with the amount of boxing knowledge learned in a short period of time he was pretty damn good . well reggie gross ,larry holmes, frank bruno carl williams and tyrell biggs had great jabs its just early on in tysons career he was great at slipping the jab no matter the speed or frequency about 4 years later tyson was a bum i will admit that he had no head movement or anything but anyway he is the best to me .
WatchTheLeftHook 8 months ago
@WatchTheLeftHook -I've never argued that Tyson wasn't good. He just wasn't great.
1899sharkey 8 months ago
@1899sharkey ok friend
WatchTheLeftHook 8 months ago
@coxscorner what modern fighter best resembles this style it doesn't have to a be a big name but that would help so i could watch a detailed film i see you have b-hop on your channel is that as close as it gets?
vajinater 4 months ago
@vajinater bhop is so great because he learnt to stand before he through a punch, witch these days is so uncommon, and thats why he is still taking the young guys apart, ever hear walk before you can run? the 2nd best inside fighter of all time, (HW) is riddick bowe, its all opinion mind you.
MrLukedanger 4 months ago
@MrLukedanger
What brand of alcohol are you drinking? I'd like to try it so I can make foolish statements such as Riddick Bowe is the 2nd best HW of all-time.
mdmcdd1117 4 months ago
@pumpSHO no its good to avoid blows to the head :D
WatchTheLeftHook 9 months ago
@pumpSHO if you have ever boxed you know that the jab is used the most and having your heas off center means your opponent cant throw his left hand jab at your face.
WatchTheLeftHook 9 months ago
Some horrible quality footage, seen much better
Great vid still
Chex2331 1 year ago
Joe Louis was an American hero, and the most talented boxer who ever lived.
MrRoccoMarchegiano 1 year ago
Just watching this vid. again.
What a cracker.
Well done to coxscorner for the composition and analysis.
Your vid. has educated me about boxing and really informed my understanding of the other fighting styles I am involved in.
Thanks!!
makchoi 1 year ago
He's the fighter I prefer watching. Such skill.
nitramgnal 1 year ago
great job on this video
eslubin 1 year ago
Joe was the best eva!
Rockyfan10060 1 year ago
Louis > Ali.
CassiusAli67 1 year ago
@CassiusAli67
yep that's just your opinion.
you don't have to go around saying that shit when nobody's even talking about Ali.
Seriously, give it up.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
Louis did exactly what his trainer Blackburn told him.It obviously worked.
Jeffrey751 1 year ago
Excellent video. Some fight fans tend to underrate Louis because he got decked by some guys who were hardly in his class, like Tony Galento. They therefore conclude that Joe couldn't box, that his balance was crummy, etc.. This vid demonstrates how wrong they are. It also displays Joe's overwhelming power with SHORT punches. Six inches, maybe five, were PLENTY. No doubt about it, Louis was one of the top ten great heavyweights.
stevevandien 1 year ago
they should make a program that fixes old film by filling in the missing frames and stuff with computer generated animation....at some point in the future
longfootbuddy 1 year ago
No doubt Joe Louis was the Greatest heavyweight of all time. All the experts and historians agree. Bert Sugar, Eddie Futch, even Joe Frazier and George Foreman.
Poptartwizard34 1 year ago
@Poptartwizard34 bert sugar,expert historian??,,nahhh.dont let the hat and cigar fool ya.ill take eddie futch as a qualified opinion though,frazier,and george are qualified too.louis was fabulous,i agree.
dempsey981 9 months ago
JOE NO 1
ROCCO NO 2
ALI 5TH
shotgunshawzy 1 year ago
you broke it down and and presented your evidence, no one with any wit can deny,credit must be given where its due. "The Brown Bomber" was the Man..
sz977493 1 year ago
Joe was the man everybody knows it, put it this way.........id rather see ALI ( or clay ) down a dark alley ( no fag, gay etc intended ) than LOUIS , any day of the credit crunch week....R. I P MARCIANO
shotgunshawzy 1 year ago
An excellent video, coxscorner. Thanks for uploading it.
Ludlow889 1 year ago
great respect to coxcorner for being able to analyse joe louis true fighting skill.
for me he is without a doubt the best heavyweight the world has ever seen untill today. (on motion picture of course)
alexfromgalax87 1 year ago
@brewepau my thoughts exactly. Boxing continues to evolve as the accumulated information from all time greats spreads AND also becomes more readily available. As time progresses, there is less to be seen that has not been seen before.
knightblade87x 1 year ago
good post thanx
mog5020 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this, coxscorner. It's a superb teaching tool to help people see why Joe was so great. I could see a lot more after I viewed your contribution here. Thanks again!
brewepau 1 year ago
Joe Louis is the greatest !!!!!!!!!!
ilcoms88 1 year ago
All these woulda, coulda ,shouda, about the coward Tyson. If ifs and buts were nuts and berries we'd all have a merry x-mas.His lack of heart would have surfaced against any great champ.
TheRichmich 1 year ago
''Ali is the greatest of all time '' hahahahaha i can't hear this shit anymore !! Joe Louis would destroy Ali ! Ali has some close fights against fighters which are not near at Joe Louis class(a few... Cooper,Young,Norton) !! What if Liston and Foreman would go the distance with Ali ?!?! This case would be against Louis,he would go the distance,he hits more accurte than Foreman and Liston and nearly that hard but much faster ! Louis would DESTROY Ali !!!!!!!
ugly444444 1 year ago
@ugly444444 how true :) but , louis punches are more damaging than liston/foremans, just because of speed and accuracy. and dont forget his smooth combinatorics.
alexfromgalax87 1 year ago
I´ve seen the difference to the heavys nowadays. It´s a myth, that todays heavys are better. F.E. look at Klitschkos: somewhat amateurish, no good offense, no good defense, no slipping. No masterfull boxing at all. I´m German and a heavyweight myself, but the German heavys don´t know the sweet science. I never understood the gloryfying in our media.
BigDaddyHeavyweight 1 year ago
man this is really something thnx so much!!
asianrapper209 2 years ago
Against Tillis, Tyson stook straight up rather than bob and weave, and Tillis' strategy had a lot to do with this. When he was thrown off his game, Tyson had no plan B. As for Razor Ruddock, let's not put much stock in Tyson's victories over him. Ruddock never defeated a top heavyweight, so a win over him wasn't like defeating even a Jerry Quarry back in the day.
vidnut67 2 years ago
@vidnut: Partyboy Tyson after Douglas huh? Hell his technique and skills had already unravelled greatly during the 8 month layoff when he left Rooney, evident in first Bruno fight. But make no mistake, he was an awesome beast against Ruddock in 1991 and turned Razor into damaged goods through those brutal 19 rounds. It was after prison, when he return in 1995 that Tyson was no longer great.
IntergalaticRape 2 years ago
Right on the spot!
swedishtysonfan 2 years ago
@IntergalaticRape agreed. When somone asked Tyson at an evening I attended last year who the hardest puncher he ever faced was, he answered "Razor Ruddock hit me harder than anyone ever did"
I also believe that he won his two fights previous to Douglas on pure fear-factor and was never the same again after prison.
Let's not forget that other fighters who had a layoff (notably Ali) were able to train and eat well, whereas Tyson was in the pen living off Prison rations..
yerty2000 2 years ago
I've been reading your responses as well as others concerning Tyson, and I respect your opinions, but let's not forget this: the seeds were being sown for the disaster in Tokyo long before Kevin Rooney passed out of the picture; listening to an account by Teddy Atlas is proof enough of this. Just look at a tape of his fight with "Quick" Tillis in '86 during his so-called glory period; he's making the same mistakes as he did against Douglas, only Tillis didn't have the power to take advantage.
vidnut67 2 years ago
@vidnut67 Cus D'Amato had a lot to do with Tyson's downfall and Teddy Atlas spotted it early and tried to warn Cus but he wouldn't listen. For example, when Tyson would misbehave in any way, Cus D'Amato wouldn't punish Tyson for what he did. There was one instance where Tyson went on one of his rampages and Atlas kicked Tyson out of the gym (This was of course when Tyson was still a child). But the next day Cus allowed Tyson back in the gym. Bottom line, no discipline fot Tyson.
xBMF9000x 2 years ago
Exactly. According to Atlas, the breaking point is when he learned that Tyson had tried to proposition one of his nieces. He confronted Tyson at the gym, put a gun to Tyson's head, and threatened to kill him if he ever did it again. Atlas was subsequently fired, sadly. I stated earlier that Tyson had no character, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have developed it. Too many people who saw dollar signs would not say no, and that set him up to fail.
vidnut67 2 years ago
@vidnut67 Yea, its a damn shame, but oh well. There have been some great champions since Tyson. The one thing about Tyson that I wish could have happened the most is this. I wish he had won his rematch with Holyfield because that would have set the stage for Holyfield vs Tyson 3. A triology with these two fighters would have been as huge as Holyfield vs Bowe and maybe as big as Ali vs Frazier and it would have been an appropriate ending for their fights as opposed to the ear bite.
xBMF9000x 2 years ago
If Tyson had perhaps had some tougher fights before winning the title-and there were some tough heavyweights left off the resume prior to Berbick-I feel he would have reacted differently in tough situations such as those he faced with Holyfield and Douglas. For all his talent, he became champion too quickly. Only Leon Spinks had a faster ascent.
vidnut67 2 years ago
Tyson was a prodigy, and such a description is hazardous to a boxer's long-term development and health. Look what happened to Wilfred Benitez. A three-division champion by age 22; a shot fighter by 25.
vidnut67 2 years ago
Interesting that Larry Holmes, four long years before Indianapolis, said that Tyson would wind up in jail. Quite a prophetic statement on the surface, yet everyone in the business knew that regardless of Tyson's media image 1985-88, he had not moderated his behavior outside the ring. The reason Jim Jacobs had him fighting so often then is because he knew Tyson would wind up in trouble otherwise.
vidnut67 2 years ago
Cus D'Amato, ironically in Tyson's case, once said while Tyson was still in diapers that a great fighter, beside having the natural ability, had to have character. Pity that he didn't live to see the fact that his last protege had none, in or out of the ring. Tyson never came from behind on points to win, and he never recovered from a knockdown to win. The truly great fighters (Ali, Louis, Robinson, and Holmes come to mind) looked pissed off when they got floored. Tyson simply quit.
vidnut67 2 years ago
@vidnut67
You sound bitter and angry with your comments about Tyson. If you don't like him just say so don't try to act like you provide an objective analysis of him.
Tysonisthebestever 2 years ago
@Tysonisthebestever
Whether this comes off as objective is of no concern to me; this is only my opinion, and I followed him from the beginning. Bitter and angry? I never knew the guy personally, and he never did anything to me. If anything, I was disappointed in him. He was capable of so much more, and he didn't do it, and in the end not only did he suffer but so did boxing.
vidnut67 2 years ago
@vidnut67
I'd have to disagree but I'll leave it at that.
To change the topic I'd have to say that I'm not a fan of the 70s era of hw boxing. I think it's highly overrated and exaggerated by the so called boxing analysts, and I'm not impressed with the era in general.
I really can't say anything negative about Joe Louis. As far as legacy is concerned I think Louis is the clear cut top hw of all-time.
Tysonisthebestever 2 years ago
@vidnut67
One thing I'm going to point out that I see and then I'll leave it at that about your comments. As swedishtysonfan mentioned your comments are not without merit but your point of view is a bit one sided (the glass is half empty rather than half full). I'm well aware of the negative aspects of Tyson's career.
I probably wouldn't have cared much for boxing if Tyson never existed.....
Tysonisthebestever 2 years ago
You're right in some ways but also you put down his best wins.If a Louis or Marciano had beaten a Ruddock or Stewart they had been hailed as conqurers over the power hitting monsters but when Mike does it they was nothing to begin with.
I belive Tyson proved something in both the Tucker fight and Douglas fight-heart and will to win!!!
I agree with you though,past prime against Holy he wanted out....
swedishtysonfan 2 years ago
very good vid.
I have another dream matchup: Joe Louis vs Floyd Patterson....
yerty2000 2 years ago
GREAT GREAT VID of the no 1 hw ever!!!
swedishtysonfan 2 years ago
Everyone lists this guy as the best. I wish I could see his techniques better but the videos are always bad. I can't see jack and I guess that's why I'm not a boxer.
koky5150 2 years ago
That was a wonderful video. Interesting comments too, boxing speculation from armchair experts makes for some funny/interesting/horrifying reading. For mine, I am glad you highlighted how good Joe's footwork actually was - it was footwork used to a specific end, which wasn't so much evasion as a tactical and distance tool, more subtle, but as Louis' record reminds me, not less effective! Certainly IMHO the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time, and with a smart lip too!
naughtynildo 2 years ago
Someone posted that Louis's trainer J. Blackburn said that Jack Johnson would beat Louis any day of the week. Anyone read anything concerning that statement?
faltagh 2 years ago
Well thats bull. Will poster please give source so i can go look it up myself. I have many newspaper and magazine articles with Blackburn quotes and he never says this.
slamminsammy35 2 years ago
Ah no way, Louis can only be beaten by very strong and tough pressure fighters or by Muhammad Ali.......Louis was great IMO 2nd greatest
Boxinglad123 2 years ago
Joe Louis is the best schooled boxer ive seen! and the best HW of all time! Just evrything he does is like reading the book of boxing.
connymat 2 years ago
This is a great video. Thx man
TheFelix187 2 years ago
Could Louis' style of boxing be effective in a southpaw stance?
charliegarbs 2 years ago
Anything can be transferred to a southpaw stance from an orthodox stance. Just apply it correctly. Thats the way i see it. Just reverse the technique from orthodox to southpaw and it will be in a southpaw stance. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO IT CORRECTLY. For instance im a orthodox, when i try to practice my southpaw in the same style i notice i cant do it the same way. So youll have to correct the minor mistakes if you get what im saying.
reaperofgenocide 2 years ago
@charliegarbs YES
boxermaf 2 years ago
Louis was the best no question his combination of power ,speed , agression and boxing skills were almost beyond belief , I just wonder thought as to the quality in the heavyweight divion during the Louis era, I dont rate his opposition too highly, or was joe just so good he made the others look poor. Also I dont think Gene Tunney gets his dues, of the 30 rounds he boxed agianst Dempsey he lost just 1 round, he thrashed Dempsey who is regarded as one of the all time greats, what do think coxy.
travisemtsis 2 years ago
I think Tunney is a little under rated but he did not have many fights at heavywt. I tend to rate him at 175 where he fought most of his career. He beat Dempsey but one who had clearly lost it. He was good but his jab was more of s defensive weapon whereas Louis jab felt like "someone smashed a light bulb into your face." Louis has too many weapons for Tunney to overcome and Gene was not small like Conn so he couold not go underneath and around Louis as easily. I like Louis by Tko late.
coxscorner 2 years ago
#1 Tunney had much better footwork than Conn,He could move around him much more skillfully. #2 Conn was 6ft 1 1/2 tall. Tunney at 6ft 1. So "Tunney not able to go underneath as easy " based on size is BS. Pastor was 5 111/2. Lets be honest. Louis had problems against slick boxers. Tunney could punch. Dempsey said it. So did tom Gibbons. As you have said, Styles make fights. Tunney poses real problems for anyone. He beats him 8 out of 10 times.
faltagh 1 year ago
@faltagh I disagree. Tunney did noit have "much better footwork than Conn." Further Louis drained and dehydrated himself to come to 200 pounds and was not at peak form. Pastor was kod in 11 for the title. Tunney never met anyone with the ramrod jab of Joe Louis, nor his combination punching. Louis was not a swarming pressure fighter but a master boxer/ counterpuncher with a great punch in either hand. Louis also poses real problems for anyone. Tunney would be dis-sected by Louis.
coxscorner 1 year ago
@coxs. I stand by my "footwork" statement. "not at peak form" could be used anytime by anyone. In 37', Pastor went the distance. My opinion, Dempsey punches harder than Louis. Tunney without doubt could take a shot. Can't say the same for Louis. Louis would be dis-sected by Tunney.
I agree about the positive attributes of Louis. A real problem for anyone. We just don't agree about Gene Tunney.
Good video.
faltagh 1 year ago
Louis simply has too many tools for Tunney to overcome; speed, power, a debilitating jab, perfect combinations. I dont care to debate it further.
coxscorner 1 year ago
@coxscorner hey did you know that louis and blackburn helped robinson w/ his footwork? because i never knew that
Christian13131 1 year ago
What did Tunney do at heavy besides beat a faded Dempsey? Nothing to suggest he beats Louis. The sharper Jack of a few years earlier would have finished Tunney off, IMO.
Furthermore, the Dempsey fights have given the false impression that Tunney was some kind of unhittable phantom, when in reality he wasn't all that hard to hit. Most of Tunney's KOs were against journeymen or aged greats.
Godoy, Baer, Braddock, Conn etc could all take a shot too. Didn't do them much good against Louis.
FlaviusConstantius 1 year ago
@faltagh i think tunney would be demolished by louis...and louis hits harder than dempsey. thats a fact
Christian13131 1 year ago
@faltagh Wait, what? Louis had twenty pounds on Dempsey! They were both world-class punchers, and when two men are both skilled and powerful, size can and must play a decisive difference when comparing their punching power
Pound for pound, you could make an argument- though still not a strong one considering that the greater endurance required for Dempsey-era fighters compared with Louis' era strongly disincentivized developing large muscles, which are good for power but bad for stamina.
ooogooman 1 year ago
@ooogooman Louis didn't have 20lbs on Dempsey ! Louis weighed a little under/ over 200lbs most of his career. Dempsey mostly 190 lbs. Measurement wise virtually the same. Dempsey trained down in weight for speed. The only fighter to fight both, Jack Sharkey, has said that Dempsey was the harder puncher.
If Louis was the supreme counter-puncher, Dempsey was the most complete pressure fighter. Many an expert thought Dempsey would beat Louis. Myself included.
1saxonwolf 11 months ago
@1saxonwolf Louis was on the 'over' side of 200 for most of his career, and Dempsey on the 'under' side of 190 for most of his. Fifteen, perhaps.
ooogooman 11 months ago
@faltagh Obviously you never saw Billy Conn fight.
TheChoice264 1 year ago
@faltagh fuck off how many gene tunney fights have u seen
dont argue about things you dont know
louis would smash tunney boxing evolved and will continue to
johnosandra 1 year ago
the off center stance made him very suseptable to overhand rights though
stander1983 2 years ago
I disagree. In rematch vs Schmeling he didnt get hit with one right hand. Galento caught him with a left hook, Braddock he ducked into an uppercut. When you are trying to take your opponents head off you are in position to be hit. But he was not more suspectible because of his stance, and the past prime Louis doesn't count in my book.
coxscorner 2 years ago
@coxscorner
Where do you rank Louis as a Fighter?
Forget "boxing" for a second because he was great at that too. I'm talking about when Louis decided to go all out and unload his arsenal either because he wanted to or was forced to...was there anybody better in the HW division in history?
Personally I've always felt this was the most dangerous version of Louis. It just seemed you would rather have him box you then have him decide to send the cavalry in.
Orangewind 2 years ago
When Louis started unloading his big guns the veteran fight fans would reach for their hats cause they knew it was over. Fleischer considered Louis the greatest finisher in boxing history. When Louis had you hurt it was only a matter of time. As a fighter few were better, maybe Dempsey in pure aggression. But Louis was the total package.
coxscorner 2 years ago
Interesting documentary, and it's interesting that you brought up Schmeling. Experts who discuss the loss to Schmeling in '36 overlook the fact that he was only a pro two years at that point. It took a beating like that to teach him that you don't give a fighter like that room to punch, and he certainly didn't in the rematch.
vidnut67 2 years ago
It was mainly his lazy jab that let him down in that fight. It was a beautiful offensive weaping for working his way in or stepping back off but he never brought it back ready to stop a right hand so Schmeling just fired over the top. Still took him about 40 flush right hands to finish Louis though, helluva man.
jitteryjoe 2 years ago
That's exactly the flaw Schmeling mentioned when asked if Louis had a weakness. Still, lazy jab or no, it's hard to hit your opponent full force if he's in your chest as Louis was in the 1938 rematch. Look at how much distance he gave Max in the first fight as opposed to the rematch.
vidnut67 2 years ago
This is true, and his jab definitely looked sharper. The blackburn style fighters were so much more technical than most of the top guys in those days. The last moments of that match still make me wince for max.
jitteryjoe 2 years ago
I can understand why. That shot to the back as Schmeling turned away could have paralyzed him. Louis was definitely out for blood that night. He told the press before the rematch that he was scared, "Scared that I might kill him."
vidnut67 2 years ago
@vidnut67 Wonderful grasp of the facts well put...
Had Louis not lost to Schmeling, I reckon he'd have got tagged by Sharkey (despite the age gap) and definitely would've lost to Walcott...
Louis hadn't really tasted bitter defeat as an amateur, it was his loss to Schmeling that taught him heart in later rounds, IMO.
yerty2000 2 years ago
I agree, but I believe that the loss took something physically out of Louis. Boxing historian Bert Sugar noted that after that fight, there was a vulnerability to right hands that hadn't been there before. A friend of Louis recently stated that Louis took 72 right hands to the head that night.
vidnut67 2 years ago
Louis never was realistically in the fight that night and by his own admission had no memory of anything after round five. If he indeed was that out of it, one wonders why Jack Blackburn didn't stop it earlier than it was. I don't care how great you are, a beating like that stays with you, and it is a testament to Louis' greatness that he wasn't a shot fighter after that. Most fighters after a beating like that in boxing history have not been that lucky. Tyson after Douglas comes to mind.
vidnut67 2 years ago
@vidnut67 true... If you take a beating for several rounds, that marks you for life. For me, the best example is Ali/Frazier 3.
As far as Tyson goes, personally I believe that he was already in freefall before he fought Douglas and lost to him as a result. My personal belief is that losing his Catskill connections began the end of Tyson's domination.
Funny Louis said he never remembered anything after round 5. Ali said the same thing when he fought Shavers (I think it was round 3).
yerty2000 2 years ago
Comment removed
vidnut67 2 years ago
greatest heavyweight of all time
lee1990lee 2 years ago
good video. it makes one appriciate the old fighters more.
VCthaGOATdunker 2 years ago
Great video. Louis was amazing with all the moves he had. He knew how to work the angles. Notice how he turns his hip when he pinches. This gives him full power and also puts him in a defensive position once he has thrown it. Fighters today for the most part just walk straight in and hit each other. Louis moved side to side. He would dominate today as no one is being talk these skills anymore.
bbxx44 2 years ago
the best of all time never been no one like him ever wow
yafeuorphee 2 years ago
Superb video mate, nice one.
newsense87 2 years ago
Comment on boxing and Joe Louis the fighter, political, controversial and/or information on them as a person that has nothing to do with boxing will be deleted. You can comment on other boxers to so long as its relevent.
coxscorner 2 years ago
jack jhonson said joe would get ko'd by right hand counters, then he did. is this cause he is fundementaly flawed by sitting his head of to the right whiles hes at a distance, wich i have heard and experienced as a no no in boxing?
mikepeb 2 years ago
No. A couple lead to Joe Louis early loss, 1) Max Schmeling was a smart fighter who noticed Louis dropped his left after jabbing and was able to counter him over the top. The same thing happened to Lennox Lewis against McCall. 2) Louis was poorly trained for the fight doing his training on the golf course. After that he corrected both errors, and made a perfect adjustement in the rematch and destroyed Schmeling in one round.
coxscorner 2 years ago
Dempsey would have knocked him out. Tunney would have given him a boxing lesson.
faltagh 2 years ago
NO chance
coxscorner 2 years ago
What exactly is there for Tunney to teach such a remarkable boxer? Gene was a great defensive boxer, but skill wise, Joe had no holes. As for Dempsey...did you just write that to be controversial and to get a response?
naughtynildo 2 years ago
Great video, thanks for sharing!
vjnctn 2 years ago
We'll never know who would win out of Ali and Louis. Remember, Ali could really take a punch, was bigger and had much faster footwork, although, Frazier beat Ali, and Frazier was no Joe Louis!
chunkyscotty 2 years ago
no.....frazier was frazier........n he was great, need no comparisons...
jego38 2 years ago
Great video, fascinating viewing. Many thanks
DrMo249 2 years ago
louis would have caught up with ali and knocked the tar out of him. he was extremely scientific and if he hurt you, your ass is grass.
forkhorn93 2 years ago
Brilliant video! My Bro has a DVD on this legend and that is exactly what the man was.
downfader2 2 years ago
I agree with everything you have said and it was well put too but to say he would soundly outpoint Louis or stop him late on i dont think you can say that, no one knows, Louis could stop Ali late on, its an even fight and when you are talking about the most devestating natural puncher in the history of boxing anything can happen.
gangst1978 2 years ago
in terms of achievement, on paper, Louis is clearly the greatest heavyweight of all time...BUT if you look a little deeper, you will soon realize Louis never fought anyone with the strength or ability of a Sonny Liston, or George Foreman, Frazier, or even Norton...Ali fought a much higher class of opponent than Louis ever did...Ali beat monsters like foreman and Liston, he would have soundly outpointed Louis or stopped him late.the 60's and 70's really where the golden era of heavyweight boxing
HatmanTV 2 years ago
Interesting you want to look deeper into Louis' career yet fail to do the same for Ali.
Liston..you mean old man Liston who quit after 6 rds with an injury and then took the most flagrant dive in boxing history?
Foreman...you mean the fight with loose ropes after George had been held prisoner and unable to spar for a month before the fight?
Norton...Ali fought Kenny 3 times and still hasn't beaten him.
Frazier...Ali lost when it mattered most when both were closest to prime.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
I dont think liston took a dive, if you look at the video in slow motion you can see Ali's trademark "Ancor Punch" basically rip his jaw right from his head. I believe that would knock anyone out .. Thats the thing about Ali, everbody under estimates his punching power. Then again this is only my opinion maybe he did take a dive only Sonny knows the truth.
clikityclak 2 years ago
The punch had no power on it, not enough to crack Liston's chin. Sonny's awful acting on the canvas gave the game away.
Ali fought almost 100 rounds with Norton, Patterson and Spinks, 3 all-time soft chinned heavy champs, and got 1 credited knockdown. Where was the anchor punch against them? Where was the anchor punch against Cooper, Mildenberger, Young, Terrell, Jones, Lubbers etc, all far lesser chins than Liston.
That's probably why everyone "under estimates" Ali's punching power.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
well i guess you got me there haha
clikityclak 2 years ago