there's NO overpopulation problem, this planet was potential for trillions humans, the only problem is that we have reach a limit on millennia OLD paradigms, we want to do the same over and over again, we do not want to change, 70% of the planet superficie is free what are we waiting for.
Industrialization is not a problem, letting poor people have more kids is the problem, I'm not trying to sound harsh, but mentally Ill people are suffering staying alive, let them pass, it's not like they won't go to a better place. People with stds are also rising in numbers, because of finding pleasure in fake breeding, our bodies aren't meant to do that for fun, plus, accidents can happen.
Our world is far from being over populated, cities are becoming over crowded because they cannot keep up with the population growth. We don't need more earth, we just need balance. More people moving to farm communities to promote more agricultural growth and larger farming communities so we can lean away from the big industries that inject our food with toxins that go into our bodies.
@oO0glitcher0Oo Toxins that control the growth of our food, these industries know how to control our food, why wouldnt that stop them from doing the same to humans secretly?
im a 47 y old man and i never had children, never wanted, is waste of money, and any child can become a murderer adult ,or if it dies is parents horror,or born retard, most women are gaga about being a mother and i think overpopulation is mostly women fault.
the problem is with the Instinct of breeding. they connot stop only by force. without forgetting the medical progress wich we think is a good thing people who should be dead are alive, and that's not normal.
devide the worlds wealth between half the population and kill the rest. I see opportunity where others see problems. If we don't do this we're all fucked if we do we have a 50/50 chance of a great time and we're going to die anyway.
@live4pce Amen!!! I agree! This is a stupid concept.... This is the propaganda that is taught in higher learning institutions by the elite... and people buy into it. Their problem is that we are too many people to control, and use the teaching of overpopulation for the masses to change their mind set to do the job that they cannot do openly.
@live4pce There is no more "Texas" in Dallas. North Dallas used to be surrounded by open, wild and gorgeous country side. In only 20 years it literally has been covered with miles and milesof corporate concrete, plastic and glass stripmalls. Almost every street corner is filled with the same soulless bullshit . Traffic is worse, schools are overcrowded and it's just bland ugliness. The natural beauty of Texas is gone and it has been replaced with mindless barbie plastic.
A ethical and fair way of reducing all environmental problems to less than half their current level by the end of this century can be found at "One Planet, One Child" or "overconsumpulation".
OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION. How many times do I have to type it's not over population. Do your research.
@walter0bz Look how much space is in the usa, we also don't have the worlds highest population and we are using 20% of all oil when countries like china which are 20% of the worlds population are only using 2%. Japan is the same way, so that is false. Some countries like mine the usa waste.
So you're going to get Americans accepting a 3rd world lifestyle any time soon ?
Are you volunteering to live like that ?
I'll admit - i'm spoilt. I've looked into what sustainable living will involve and its a terrifying prospect. But the averge person thinks technology will save us and our industrial cocoon will last forever.
@Zamriasra - we'll just have to agree to disagree at this point.
we waste 80% of the oil, but the other 20% is what powers agriculture to feed 5bilion extra people.
If we used all the oil efficiently we might have 10,20,30 billion. then they all starve when it runs out leaving 1 billion sustainably. at least the gadgets distract us from breeding.. easier to deal with losing TVs, ipods cars when oil runs out than food supply.
(i dont drive btw, but live in society that can't function without car)
@walter0bz I live in the north country and it is hard to find a way around without transportation but, most shipping like trucks use disel.and most are switching to cleaner fuels other then the already clean disel. Just putting that out there and i would like to know where you got your 20 80% figure, or i am just going to dispute it as wrong info.
>>" i would like to know where you got your 20 80% figure, "
I extrapolate that from "20% use 80% of worlds resources" and "it would take 5 earths to give everyone american standard of living"
so I extrapolated/interpreted the statement: 80% of the Fossil-Fuels (most important resources) give us 1st world living conditions ( cars, TVs, ipods, suburban homes ). The remaining 20% feeds everyone.
The details may differ.,but the salient process is: finite resources multiplying food.
- Anti-malthusians (the side you're on) usually bring up the 20%:80% figure (1st world overconsumption) as proof that its 'overconsumption', i.e. if all the resources were equally distributed we could survive just fine.
But, their 80:20 figure lumps together renewable & non-renewable. [more]
>>"I live in the north country and it is hard to find a way around without transportation but,"
well, you're fucked when the oil runs out aren't you.
Part of my point is, many live in uninhabitable places, been temporarily habitable by fossil-fuels (bringing in water & essentails from elsewhere).
in nature, we have creatures more suited to extreme locations (polar bears for arctic, whereas we use fossil heating, and camels for deserts, whereas we use fossil irrigation)
thats still a finite fossil-fuel, unless you're talking biodesiel, which is blamed for causing starvation (thats the point, we can't feed as many people once the fossil-fuel energy input is no longer available, but diverting land to keep machines running brings the starvation closer)
>>"cleaner fuels other then the already clean disel."
Just to clear this up:
**I don't actually give a shit about global warming.**
Fossil-fuel being "Finite" is a much more serious problem that will kill most of us sooner.
Global warming is a moot point compared to peak oil.
My theory is 'MMGW' is pushed as the least alarming way of preparing sheeple for fuel to run out. (govts want to control & ration the remaining supplies)
@walter0bz oil is already more expensive then oil alterterntives. That's why there has been a massive switch to electric cars and other fuels used by cars. As soon as one company switches to a cleaner fuel like h20. Oil use will be almost zero. As soon as rationing happens oil will be out of use and long gone.
@walter0bz Have you ever been to new york city or any part of japan ? Actaully most of the uk takes public transportation, i have quite a few friends that only take buses in the uk. Air planes are a different story all together and most use cleaner fuels than oil. Look it up not kidding.
- once again - the pollution is a moot point compared to the fuels actually running out.
Do you have any examples of (man-sized,cargo-carrying) flying machines that use renewables ? (hangliders maybe..) There's helium Balloons of course I conceed.
I know americans are capable of car-free life too. But its a moot point. Even if EVERYONE cycles, lives in dormitories, we still need fossil-fueled industry to eat. (pesticides, fertilizer,trade)
been to japan yes, impossibly high population density enabled by fossil-fuels.
busses .. great today, future is 'horse and cart'. The bicycle is my favoured transport, shame it rains so much. covered Tunnels with collective drafting would be great. but Cars are the easiest thing to fix. Its FOOD that we'll struggle with. Will 1st world countries open their borders to let in starving billions from africa & asia ? i think not...
@walter0bz there are only 15 million people each year dieing from starvation. Billions is an over statement by far, thinkquest org did an article about that stat... second thing the japanese population was able to grow so much because most of japan is ethier cities or farm there is no inbetweens. You have people who live in the cities then you have people who work on farms. I would say they have one of the denses populations because they can feed their people pretty easily.
it will indeed be Billions that starve after peak oil. Longterm systainable popoulation minus fossil fuel input is in the range 0.5-2billion.
the extra people will most likely die in resource wars.
"best case scenario" is this catastrophe is spread out over 100 years.. death by a thousand cuts. just 1% per year - perpetual WorldWar2 for the rest of the century.
Japan likely so dense as its island feeding of sea & trade i guess (like uk) globalization fed 800million with sail ships
yup its no exageration. at least 2 out of every 3 are doomed in the longrun.
Thats why the bankers etc are so desperate to 'dig in'. only sure way to ensure longterm survival is to have bunker with supplies. but military will run the show i'm sure.
The Future is brutal, authoritarian police-states where civilization continues, and somalia level anarchy elsewhere.
@walter0bz I just posted an article :P with the true stats it's not in the billions as you say. Show me a place that says billions are dieing each year for starvation and i will believe you. The bunkers are also for the 2012 conperecy which is relevent to the topic at hand. Unless you have anything to continue the arguement it looks like i have on upped you.
2012 / NWO.. many variants on the theory. The most plausible-
[1] the worlds elite have known about Peak Oil & impending billions-starving for decades. (club-of-rome reports in 70's, etc). They run the global machine so know.
[2] they figure, rather than take their chances with everyone else, they're better off hiding in bunkers and causing a deliberate die-off, so they garantee their own survival.
[3] it might not even need to be a co-ordinated effort for it to look like that.
You fucking idiot the world population can fit in texas with 1200 square feet per person you monkey. you probably dont even have a house thats 1200 square feet. the world isnt overpopulated and it never will be i say have as many kids as possible
Human Overpopulation is the # 1 Problem!!! Hello Us Humans... Why are we not talking about this! What just happen to Japan is sad that it happen, but, Mother Nature is good when she does it. But, this Needs to Happen alll around the world like it or not. We need at most, 4.2 billion people off this earth, yes gone. Hey Mother Nature it is Hunting season on Humans. Mother Nature lets get busy...
SEE!! futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition here's a petition that has been sent to every single government in the world, all major NGO's dealing with population and development, to US Ambassadors in every Nation, to President Obama, to Vice-President Biden, and to Secretary of State Clinton...everyone! And here it's to you!
At least China has done one thing right: "Population Control" I say it may be what we DONT want but we need to do something about it and fast. The Worlds population will more than DOUBLE in the next 20 years. All in all we may wanna have more kids, or just more than 1 but we are living in a world with a population crisis that will only get MUCH WORSE if we dont do something about that. we may not want to and many may deny it. but its time we ALL GET WITH THE FUCKING PROGRAM!!!
some humans should never ever breed. you know who you are. i dont have to tell you. you manage to tell me though. by the way you think. you are not worthy to pass on your genes. your genetic material is pollution. you are bitter with no capacity for individual thinking. you are a follower. a vegetable. you cant remember the last time you were happy. you want everyone dead. so that you can feel good about yourself. you are mentally sick. its unlikely you will have sex anyway its not your way.
@cam9408 Hmm, I thought it was pretty obvious, but here goes. Religious (aka dumb) motherfuckers are the ones who are most likely to "go forth and multiply" with not a second thought to the child's physiological and psychological well being. They just breed like dirty animals. It's not only rednecks. It's all ignorant people.
I'll go along w/the "Bhagavad Gita," & the sacred writings that profess the Spirit to be ageless & eternal, that Man is a useful passion, & that to kill an unborn child is a crime of Universal dimension. I find these doctrinal musings more appealing than the "Globaloneyism" parroted by eugenicists Bill Gates, Richard Dawkins, Ted Turner, Goodall, Cousteau & Kenyan Obama, the proposition being that Man is less significant than snail darters, kangaroo rats, logger-head turtles & speckled owls.
@vmorgun I like how you said "humane" as the first word of that sentence. Why'd you do that? Like saying "humane" means everybody's going to jump on board this crazy train. And "global"? Wow. But, I'll pay for your birth control. (: I wouldn't want you reproducing, either.
@TenderTrap86 wow, wow, hold on there :) I am just having a discussion here. besides. Let me explain myself so there is no misunderstanding. humane - against war/famine human suffering etc. Global - this is one planet w/many countries, so its fair (some details will have to be worked out.) LOL I use birth control/protection :) so you have nothing to worry about. I'm not trying to hurt peoples feelings, also I am not a politician or a scientist. :) War, Famine etc vs. condoms, international laws.
@vmorgun - "War, Famine etc vs. condoms, international laws." -
So, there are no other options than the two you proposed, then? Let's think about this. How do wars start? How are wars funded? Does the 3rd World starve because there is not enough food, or because there is too much beaurocracy? Why is international law necessary for a problem that happens in people's bedrooms?
@TenderTrap86 I support the idea of global birth control. There are many predictions by experts on wars of the future: it is said they will be RESOURCE BASED, and there will be many. There are limited resources - a fact that should not be surprising. The 3rd world is screwed in more than one way, yes it is sad. 1st world doesn't give a shit about them (mostly) and is making a profit by "helping" them in many cases. :) Why global birth control? does it mean you can't have 11 kids and van?
@vmorgun - "There are many predictions by experts on wars of the future: it is said they will be RESOURCE BASED" - Name one war that hasn't been "RESOURCED BASED"./// - "There are many predictions by experts" - Like the great financial geniuses who claim they never saw the 'Great Recession' coming? Or, how about those intellectual giants at the local TV station who can't even give an accurate 5 day forcaste?/// Resources are limited because people make them limited.
@TenderTrap86 It is just a prediction, and yes: even in religious wars it comes down to recourses. btw just because some experts are corrupt or make mistakes, we should not dismiss all of them as idiots. :) I was talking about global overpopulation problem: yes there is terrible corruption and greed, but are you saying that our planet has infinite resources? If one was to think that way, prepare for disappointment. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
@vmorgun In a a way the world does, in fact, have infinite renewable resources. People automatically equate resources with fossil fuel. This isn't so. Water is always replenished. Trees contiously grow, if we let them. And now we're looking into biodiesel, which is also renewable. What would the Green Movement be if there wasn't "infinite" resources? That's's the whole premise. It's a matter of using those resources with responsibility.
@TenderTrap86 I support green movement, if it was up to me or planet would run on wind, sun, wave, hydrogen, magnetic etc. We have only so much land to grow healthy food (maybe organic) and let people have good housing, let animals roam on large areas of the planet, deal with poverty and disease effectively, not live on geographically dangerous areas (Hurricane Katrina f.e.) the list can go on! Human Global Population Control is not the enemy of renewable resources or Green Tech. Future is Green
@vmorgun I'm all for the Green movement but stay out of the way two people want to have their own family. I don't care if government makes it "legal" to control births. It would be a tyranny of the worst sort because nobody, nobody, has the right to do that.
@TenderTrap86 One thing about me: I never stay out of the way when it comes to my interest, also I see no problem with what is right and proven a fact. Even by looking at nature you will see animals control their population, sometimes kill their young for this reason. We have Technology and Humanity. "Two people" can have a family, under Humane Global Birth Control Laws. WAR, FAMINE, POVERTY is no tyranny to you, High 5 buddy! Please do research.
@vmorgun -"Even by looking at nature you will see animals control their population"- I'd like a source for that, please. Thank you. /// Do you believe in a woman's "right to choose" over whether or not she has an abortion?
@Tender LOL you do have google right? here is a totally random link (took me a few seconds). ןɯʇɥ˙ןoɹʇuoɔ-uoıʇɐןndod-sɐ-ɯsıןɐqıuuɐɔ-ɐǝsɹǝpun/ǝɔuǝıɔs/40/90/1002/ɯoɔ˙sǝɯıʇʎu˙ʍʍʍ//:dʇʇɥ There are many ways to control the population, abortion being one of them. I am no abortion expert, (again, abortion is not the only option). The only place where overpopulation problem is so bad that the government steps in is in China. It is my guess India will soon be faced with this moral dilemma as well
@vmorgun China is also one of the most oppressive regimes in the entire world. The "overpopulation" arguement, I still don't agree with. And definately, not settling the problem through forced abortions, and you still didn't answer my last question. It's "yes" or "no".
@TenderTrap86 I am totally fine and dandy with abortions (early ones). It seems you are focused on abortion alone. Global population can be controlled in many ways (getting your tubes tied after 1st child, pills, condoms, vasectomy, etc. new methods are emerging). The details will be handled by the courts, I'm no mastermind here.
@TenderTrap86 What are you getting at? I support Humane Global Population Control Laws. Seize of family is regulated in many countries, and why only woman's rights? what if its a mans idea and he want's his partner to have a child? If you put your emotions aside maybe it will not be so frightening to you.
@vmorgun Excuse me, but when you're talking about people's children, it's always going to be an emotional issue. You're unfeeling, but don't ask me to be cold along with you.
@TenderTrap86 I don't think I'm cold. What I meant to say is lack of education on this subject is a big obstacle, so feel free to do your own research. I am not talking about children, I am talking about Humane Global Population Control Laws. How many children a family/parent can have is a big deal. Will you have no emotions when global population is controlled naturally and people (babies/children) die from war/famine for example? No emotions huh?
@vmorgun What war? What famine? And how will the issue of overpopulation instigate them? Do you even know who really instigates wars? Because they're not prime ministers or presidents.
@TenderTrap86 There is war and famine going on planet earth while you type this message. Overpopulation is a "root cause" of many problems: directly and indirectly. I support Humane Global Population Control Laws. You wrote: "Do you even know who really instigates wars?" - LOL I'll bet you do. But don't tell me - keep it a secret :) Most wars I can think of are resource based. I appreciate everyone's effort to bring awareness to the overpopulation issue.
@vmorgun Homework assignment: Go look up the nations of the 3rd World and see how much debt they're in. See who they owe it to. And, that's why there are wars and famine, and it's not because of overpopulation. It's all about money. Wars and famines are always about money. PS Google: "ireland, famine, trevelyan". I dare you.
@TenderTrap86 I have done a bit of research: capitalism, free market system, lack of regulation. The system itself is built in a pyramid-like way, and yes - the 3rd world gets a modern form of slavery. It is the way the system is built - like a wolf. You might also know that continuous population increase is what feeds it, more people need to be in place of those who used to be there. (very simply put ofcourse).
@vmorgun The problem isn't too little regulation. It's too much regulation. How many wars and famines were there in Subsaharan Africa before European colonists carved it up and started setting their own regulations? It's the regulators that tell them where and what they can't farm, can't build, can't buy, can't live on. This causes the poverty, war, and disease. PS Spare me the "Africans don't know any better, so they have to be told like little children, because we're smarter than them" bit.
@TenderTrap86 I think what you are referring to is Imperialism - Empire would go into little countries and make them grow only coffee (for example) and little countries would sell this product to the empire in exchange for goods from the Empire. This made little countries weak and reliant on the Empire made them like helpless kids without parents. They crippled them, it's a classic move. People can have a problem understanding you because regulations are sometimes something different.
@vmorgun I don't care what name people give to what I described. It's the real problem and the true reason for wars, famine and disease. Overpopulation is a myth.
@TenderTrap86 :) Without a name there is no problem. Problem itself is a name. Let's just agree to disagree, because I get the impression that you think overpopulation is not tied into your cause. If it goes against your beliefs, or whatever other reason, if you are honest to yourself based on facts you know when you say overpopulation is a myth: I say good for you - everyone has a right to an opinion. I support Humane Global Population Control Laws - based on what I know, and it is my opinion.
@vmorgun 100% Agreed. 80 millions annual plus (thats the population of germany!) is definetly insane. Religion and selfishness are the triggers of mindless reproduction.
@vmorgun Thats bullshit. People should have the freedom to do what they want like having kids. The best solution is to release a weaponised virus into all third world countries.
@kevmanev Really? Is that as healthy as your logic can get? Even if we were to ignore the fact that it would be inhumane, the virus would travel to every country very fast. What would the long-term effects of this virus? Maybe you are joking. As time goes on and situation deteriorates less people will share your opinion that having (many) children is a right.
@kevmanev no. What gives us the right to remain virus free and populate as much as we desire? People in any country, no matter what their circumstance should have equal rights. A widespread virus isn't the solutiuon. Humane birth contol.
@sebaslocoxx Yes. Exactly. Thats a very simple and effective approach. Somehow people can't associate their birth rate with overpopulation. To me this is a sure sign that people are not much smarter than yeast on the big scale.
The world is overpopulated. I've known far too many uneducated unstable bible thumping rednecks who are obsessed with having as many children as possible regardless of whether they are capable of properly caring for those children. Poverty is a horrid form of violence and leaves its victims powerless, desperate and too often extremely dangerous.
@WhiteFlowerLei76 The world is overpopulated with BANKERS. A rational resistance to imperialism, is to have a large family. All excess property is stolen by the bankers, so every penny is placed into the mouth of a child.
@WhiteFlowerLei76 This is just another one of the reasons why I hold mankind in contempt; a bunch of self-serving, lazy retards not willing to work unless it is absolutely necessary. Nobody wants to solve the population problem. Why? It'll take time, money, and lots of work; the three things that people hate the most. And who's going to like being told that they can't have any children? We need a major epidemic, like Ebola, or an accidental release of weaponized smallpox from a lab.
around 1 minute in you speak of young families in the industrialized world making more families. This is true BUT those families in the first world tend to be one child families. This is the cause for the declining birth rate in first world countries. This is not the case in the developing world where large families tend to be the norm.
Perfectly said dude... no one would understand this unless you live in those countries, anyone who thing over population is OK come live in India/China and then comment!
I call BULL CRAP! It's been proven that if you were to take every human being on this planet and brought them all together, we could fit them all in the state of Texas with 1,000 sq feet of living space for each person. It's not the amount of people, it's what the people do, or do not do to their enviorment.
@jeangrey65 "...we could fit them all in the state of Texas with..."
So have you heard the rebuttal to this argument or not? If not, then keep your uneducated opinions to yourself. If you have, then tell us what they are, and why you think they're wrong. I'm tired of hearing the same tired arguments from people who refuse to acknowledge reality.
listen. the 1% that reap 99% of the profits on the planet have not spent A SINGLE DOLLAR OF THEIR PROFITS on either CLEANING up, CHANGING the MODES of production, creating electricity through sun or wave instead of coal. and they have the ABSOLUTE UNMITIGATED _GALL_ to blame the poorest 3 billion who live in PERFECT harmony with nature because they buy, consume and demand _nothing_ except the left over plants that they can find!
two children per woman, should be the law, in fact, i'd say 1 children per woman for the next 100 yrs, and then we allow 2. We are meant to die like at 35, but we have way too many people now
Two children ONLY for each qualified couple. A very simple formula. (Qualified means: financially capable and psychologically fit.). In other words -- LESS BIRTHS than deaths, until the global population is down to around 1-Billion.
The Western lifestyle is by far the biggest threat the environment. Yeah, Americans may have fewer children than people in third world nations, but Americans use exponentially more resources and fuel. It's disgusting. I cringe when I hear about people having kids anymore. Enough already!!!!!
The west is over populated based on what these guys are saying. Is it about gross total people or gross total that are using resources? If its the latter then the 3rd world is barely scratching the surface in terms of environmental degradation.
@LovingKimiKatkar IUCN figures show that in 2006 800 animals and 100 plant species went extinct. High biodiversity creates stability in ecosystem services which provide trillions in free services for mankind every year. If you lose them you have to pay to replace them.
Nope, the rich must accept that their way of life is only possible for all if they have smaller families and the poor want access to free voluntary contraception.
Earth can sustain a population of 77.1 BILLION people you Satanic sick fuck. Get your facts straight. The Population of the Earth can only reach a maximum of 8.4 Billion before it's leveled off. I guess you never bothered to check your facts. Guess what, you can take every person on earth right now and send them to Australia, every person would have a little more than 1/4 acre to themselves, more than enough to grow your own food on a daily basis. Save Earth, Stop Breathing, starting with YOU!
70% of Australia is arid or semi arid. I could never feed, water and shelter 6 billion let alone 9 billion. As it is if everyone lived like an american we would need 5 earth's! You need to look up and understand exponential growth function.
Did you not realize that Aus. also has a Huge underground lake and river system? Guess you never heard of harvesting water from the Atmosphere either huh? Guess you never heard that 1 Human needs 1 10x10 ft. space of Earth to keep them fed for the rest of their life. You have NO idea what or how to live off the land. You're nothing but a Pete and Repeat for the NWO and their Racist/Fascist anti Human stances. Seriously lay off the Koolaid full of Fluoride and Mercury and the GMO McDonald's food.
So you actually want a neighbour on every side of you just 10 feet away do you? Why aren't you living in a slum then. Humans need a minimum of half an acre, thats for non meat farming. If you want meat you need to multiply that by ten.
Blatant shit. There is no scientific evidence that the world is overpopulated. There is no scientific evidence that we will not find the resources need to sustain our growing culture when we colonise the moon and mars.
All this talk of overpopulation is coming from one group of people meant to deceive the Sheeple into thinking committing suicide for Mother Gaia will save her. Funny how those that claim the Earth is overpopulated want others to kill themselves first.....
More Financial stability= Less Population. Less Financial stability= More Population. Funny how the same people creating the Global Criminal Financial bubbles are also the same ones offering the Solutions as Genocide? It's called Problem, Reaction, Solution. All this talk about overpopulation is bullshit. It's all coming from the Elitist assholes that run the World. Their power is dwindling and Sovereign peoples around the Planet are waking up to their lies and deceptions. Genocide? No Thanks!
No shit Sherlock. The fact that your entire way of thinking is because you've been had by the far extreme leftists thinking that through Mass Genocide ie. Global Government and Higher taxes to completely eliminate the Industrialised World will bring a Utopia. Sorry but I don't agree with the Elites that push these agendas that the human race needs to go back to a pre-Industrial age in order to save "Mother Gaea" What that is, is a Satanic Cabalic Oligarchy bent on Power and Destruction. Wake Up!
My way of thinking that voluntray contraception makes a population more sustainable and stable comes from arithmetic and a knowledge of the exponential function that makes any form of growth unsustainable in the long run. You cannot separate the difference between voluntary non coercive contraception and genocide then thats you problem!
You're leaving the 800 lb. Gorilla out of the picture. The Elite Power in the Global Government have guided humanity for 300 years. The ONLY time in history where these Bastards did not have control was the early 1700's in North and South America. Since they've achieved so much power and have molded the World in the way THEY want it, Of course your way of thinking there are too many people seems fair. BUT, if/when people break the chain of Oligarchy will you see the Earth much more "sustainable"
What, you can't live comfortably? Maybe get up off your ass and do something that decreases BIG Government Banksters that are causing all the problems in the World, i.e overfishing, over harvesting and spreading famine and diseases. If anything needs less people it's criminal organizations hiding themselves behind badges and fear mongering media spin in order to attain their high ground of more control over over you. You do know that sustainability today does mean Global Genocide right?
@FireZeus I was specifically talking about those who live in poverty when talking about lack of comfort and as you well know i do have an issue with those rich people who consume faster than nature can replace.
Your Beef is with GOVERNMENT PIGS not the common people of the World. It's those Psychopath fear mongering, war mongers that control media and nearly every facet of the Human species lives that have steered the World into the direction that it's been headed for the last few decades. You can't blame a Dog for biting someone when it's been taught and abused to do so. If you want to help people then teach them to STOP relying on Government/Corporations to be their Big Daddy and to be self reliant.
You don't get it do you. Okay you want to talk about Wal Mart. Alright, I guess Wal Mart being run out of New York and owned by the FBI and many Zionist shareholders of Israel and the Mormon church as a front organization for money profiteering has nothing to do with BIG Government now does it? Your enemy is NOT the American people, nor anyone other group of people with the exception of criminals who's membership and alliances are with the CFR, Bilderbergs, Club of Rome and Trilateral Commission
No shit Sherlock. The fact that your entire way of thinking is because you've been had by the far extreme leftists thinking that through Mass Genocide ie. Global Government and Higher taxes to completely eliminate the Industrialised World will bring a Utopia. Sorry but I don't agree with the Elites that push these agendas that the human race needs to go back to a pre-Industrial age in order to save "Mother Gaea" What that is, is a Satanic Cabalic Oligarchy bent on Power and Destruction. Wake Up!
I think the best way to reduce carbon emissions in the west is to have an immigration moratorium. Statistics clearly show the USA population grew by 100 million in the last 40 years and nearly all the growth was due to immigration.
The west could drasically reduce carbon emissions with a reduction in immigration and population and would have nearly stable growth in the USA with a moratorium on immigration.
the global population growing like this because of poverty. although the poverty % has gone down from 40% in the 1980s down to 15% sometime in 21st century, there is still much work needed to end poverty.
raising women social statuses to same as men, ending corruption (africa looses 150 billion to corruption annually) and building new schools there etc etc will help alot also.
we are overpopulated cause our population is no where sustanable, why? one of the biggest reasons is that we are still using a highly finite resource. in only 5 decades, oil will become very scares and will not meet the future energy demands. 10 billion, per capita on average higher then now.
we need to get out of oil, get to clean renewables. the earth will be able to cope better.
It's sooner than 5 decades til peak oil. Peak oil will hit by 2020 according to the ultra cautious IEA. After that its oil price rises and famine due to lack of synthetic fertilisers for intensive farming. Oil is the primary source of synthetic fertilisers.
My generation will not have great grand children. There won't be an earth left unless we can topple the megacorporations and the greed system that has enslaved the whole goddamn world.The human race will either wake up, or it will die.Go ahead, keep denying it. You have no love for your own great grand children because you don't know them personally because they aren't born yet. You will continue to live your life of willful excess and the whole damn planet will die because of your stubbornness.
all 6 billion people of the planet could all live in texas.
the biological materal there has more then enough potential to make all food they would need too. do the math.
the problem is only that people tends to live in the same city, leaving most of the rest of the country empty, like australia etc... And that is overpopulation that harms the nature there, but it's only limited to that particular area!
Sorry but to produce enough food for the world population requires a finite fuel, oil. We only have 40 years left at best. No oil=75-95% lower yields of crops.
My country for example has stopped to produce food at all, just in the last 20 years. Only because we can buy it from those who work with less salary, farmers in the baltic etc.
But, we are able to start growing on our lands again when/if it gets profitable to grow here again. And that WILL be the case in that worst case scenario you are talking about.
@clarkcolt45 Land isn't the issue, its how much yield you get and without oil we couldn't get high yields anywhere. We also have the issue of how to transport the food in large quantities from other countries without oil? At present we use half the land on the planet for food and resource extraction, the other half is either uninhabitable or unfarmable.
Also, we in the rich countries will have no problem in getting electric farm equipment, since we already sold our diesel tractors etc. to the ones that are making our food abroad now.
Electric technology is cheap even today and has gone so far even in the last few years. And it's going to be even cheaper when the demand is rising.
I don't believe in ethanol for obvious reasons (u need to farm to make it too lol), but electric just gets cheaper and we build more plants(nuclear).
@clarkcolt45 electric equipment that used oil to manufacture. Plastics, lubricants, machinery, factories all run on fossil fuels. Nuclear/wind will supply energy, but not food:(
There's a lot of possibilities, in my country for example we have a lot of JUNK that we could build useful stuff from if it was profitable.. me for example has 3 old cars and i only use one,, my family has 130 acres of land and 30 of farmland but we don't farm so it's almost growing forrest there again LOL
However, in the case of emergency, I assure you that I would drag the damn plow BY HAND if needed, cuz the prices would skyrocket.
@clarkcolt45 sorry, i know I sound pessimistic but thats beause I have seen the figures for peak oil. It worries me that the current population is only sustainable as long as oil is produced, without it, most of us our screwed. oil is only going to last 40 years, tops
The export-import market is not sustainable without oil. But my biggest problem with oil is that it's going to be war.
However, we still hold a lot of stuff that's going to be expensive and hard to produce when oil fails.
But thinking about 40 years, then I wouldn't worry about oil at all but the risk of nuclear war because we continue to fuel China with out money because we're too lazy to work for our own.
Hey. But what about all these renewable sources that are becoming more and more economically feasible? E.g. Sunlight, wind, water, hydrogen, etc...If you can power an entire house (these exist), even a neighbourhood or a city with just hydrogen, then you could imagine feeding people without the need for oil, right? There buildings out there and do not pollute, they use the sun's energy and they grow their own crops indoors...all wthiout oil...
there's NO overpopulation problem, this planet was potential for trillions humans, the only problem is that we have reach a limit on millennia OLD paradigms, we want to do the same over and over again, we do not want to change, 70% of the planet superficie is free what are we waiting for.
lcabosa 1 month ago
nobody care about overpopulation or corruption we are all gonna die!
blaze3a 2 months ago in playlist Overpopulation
And putting chemicals in food is not just harsh, it is downright evil.
KNGarver 3 months ago
Industrialization is not a problem, letting poor people have more kids is the problem, I'm not trying to sound harsh, but mentally Ill people are suffering staying alive, let them pass, it's not like they won't go to a better place. People with stds are also rising in numbers, because of finding pleasure in fake breeding, our bodies aren't meant to do that for fun, plus, accidents can happen.
KNGarver 3 months ago
his voice is boring!
wanlop46 3 months ago
Our world is far from being over populated, cities are becoming over crowded because they cannot keep up with the population growth. We don't need more earth, we just need balance. More people moving to farm communities to promote more agricultural growth and larger farming communities so we can lean away from the big industries that inject our food with toxins that go into our bodies.
jcdenton100 4 months ago
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oO0glitcher0Oo 4 months ago
@oO0glitcher0Oo Toxins that control the growth of our food, these industries know how to control our food, why wouldnt that stop them from doing the same to humans secretly?
jcdenton100 4 months ago
im a 47 y old man and i never had children, never wanted, is waste of money, and any child can become a murderer adult ,or if it dies is parents horror,or born retard, most women are gaga about being a mother and i think overpopulation is mostly women fault.
veganbond 4 months ago in playlist Global Overpopullation and Martial Law
the problem is with the Instinct of breeding. they connot stop only by force. without forgetting the medical progress wich we think is a good thing people who should be dead are alive, and that's not normal.
arazona911 4 months ago
breed breed breed that's the only thing u hetrosexuals can do.
arazona911 4 months ago
@arazona911 Not true, im hetero, and i will never have kids. Cats are more fun anyway. You dont need to worry about your cat using meth! lol
PhilosophyComa 4 months ago
Balance for your life....
edisonoside 5 months ago
I love all the wannabe global elitist comments on these "over-population" videos. Isn't eugenics fun? Hitler would agree with you.
TorontoBoi 6 months ago
devide the worlds wealth between half the population and kill the rest. I see opportunity where others see problems. If we don't do this we're all fucked if we do we have a 50/50 chance of a great time and we're going to die anyway.
hopaloop 7 months ago
@hopaloop Or how about no children for 15 years every 100 years, and in the other 75 years, 1 child law.
PhilosophyComa 4 months ago
@PhilosophyComa I think that a great idea, as long as we both are still breathing humanity has a chance.
hopaloop 4 months ago
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ethnic cleansing would be a great investment
bloodlesXxXvampire 7 months ago
the world is not over populated and no taking away human rights isnt the answer to our problems
live4pce 8 months ago
@live4pce Amen!!! I agree! This is a stupid concept.... This is the propaganda that is taught in higher learning institutions by the elite... and people buy into it. Their problem is that we are too many people to control, and use the teaching of overpopulation for the masses to change their mind set to do the job that they cannot do openly.
rmaynard626 8 months ago
@live4pce There is no more "Texas" in Dallas. North Dallas used to be surrounded by open, wild and gorgeous country side. In only 20 years it literally has been covered with miles and milesof corporate concrete, plastic and glass stripmalls. Almost every street corner is filled with the same soulless bullshit . Traffic is worse, schools are overcrowded and it's just bland ugliness. The natural beauty of Texas is gone and it has been replaced with mindless barbie plastic.
MrBeautifulba1 8 months ago
A ethical and fair way of reducing all environmental problems to less than half their current level by the end of this century can be found at "One Planet, One Child" or "overconsumpulation".
phillips78 8 months ago
sun will will expand and shut down evetually so what if this shitty planet will got little bit polluted at least humans tryed to get on and explorin
isobodari1 8 months ago
@isobodari1
>>" so what if this shitty planet will got little bit polluted"
its not a shitty planet, it is, to our knowledge, unique and should be preserved!!!!!!
walter0bz 8 months ago
I'm gay and I don't reproduce. I'm educated enough to understand that overpopulation needs to be stopped ; )
shairaptor 8 months ago
OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION OVER COSUMPTION OVER CONSUMPTION. How many times do I have to type it's not over population. Do your research.
Zamriasra 9 months ago
@Zamriasra -
a lot of overconsumption is compensation for overcrowding.
e.g. cars so you dont have to live in dormitories at work around people you dont like
tv's to keep you sane in urban environments
etc etc etc
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz Look how much space is in the usa, we also don't have the worlds highest population and we are using 20% of all oil when countries like china which are 20% of the worlds population are only using 2%. Japan is the same way, so that is false. Some countries like mine the usa waste.
Zamriasra 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
So you're going to get Americans accepting a 3rd world lifestyle any time soon ?
Are you volunteering to live like that ?
I'll admit - i'm spoilt. I've looked into what sustainable living will involve and its a terrifying prospect. But the averge person thinks technology will save us and our industrial cocoon will last forever.
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra - we'll just have to agree to disagree at this point.
we waste 80% of the oil, but the other 20% is what powers agriculture to feed 5bilion extra people.
If we used all the oil efficiently we might have 10,20,30 billion. then they all starve when it runs out leaving 1 billion sustainably. at least the gadgets distract us from breeding.. easier to deal with losing TVs, ipods cars when oil runs out than food supply.
(i dont drive btw, but live in society that can't function without car)
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz I live in the north country and it is hard to find a way around without transportation but, most shipping like trucks use disel.and most are switching to cleaner fuels other then the already clean disel. Just putting that out there and i would like to know where you got your 20 80% figure, or i am just going to dispute it as wrong info.
Zamriasra 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
>>" i would like to know where you got your 20 80% figure, "
I extrapolate that from "20% use 80% of worlds resources" and "it would take 5 earths to give everyone american standard of living"
so I extrapolated/interpreted the statement: 80% of the Fossil-Fuels (most important resources) give us 1st world living conditions ( cars, TVs, ipods, suburban homes ). The remaining 20% feeds everyone.
The details may differ.,but the salient process is: finite resources multiplying food.
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
>>" where you got your 20 80% figure,"
- Anti-malthusians (the side you're on) usually bring up the 20%:80% figure (1st world overconsumption) as proof that its 'overconsumption', i.e. if all the resources were equally distributed we could survive just fine.
But, their 80:20 figure lumps together renewable & non-renewable. [more]
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
>>"I live in the north country and it is hard to find a way around without transportation but,"
well, you're fucked when the oil runs out aren't you.
Part of my point is, many live in uninhabitable places, been temporarily habitable by fossil-fuels (bringing in water & essentails from elsewhere).
in nature, we have creatures more suited to extreme locations (polar bears for arctic, whereas we use fossil heating, and camels for deserts, whereas we use fossil irrigation)
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
>>" most shipping like trucks use disel."
thats still a finite fossil-fuel, unless you're talking biodesiel, which is blamed for causing starvation (thats the point, we can't feed as many people once the fossil-fuel energy input is no longer available, but diverting land to keep machines running brings the starvation closer)
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
>>"cleaner fuels other then the already clean disel."
Just to clear this up:
**I don't actually give a shit about global warming.**
Fossil-fuel being "Finite" is a much more serious problem that will kill most of us sooner.
Global warming is a moot point compared to peak oil.
My theory is 'MMGW' is pushed as the least alarming way of preparing sheeple for fuel to run out. (govts want to control & ration the remaining supplies)
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz oil is already more expensive then oil alterterntives. That's why there has been a massive switch to electric cars and other fuels used by cars. As soon as one company switches to a cleaner fuel like h20. Oil use will be almost zero. As soon as rationing happens oil will be out of use and long gone.
Zamriasra 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
>>"As soon as one company switches to a cleaner fuel like h20"
- you didn't just call 'h20' a fuel did you ?
>>"oil is already more expensive then oil alterterntives."
- Then why are we still using oil ? I still hear lots of petrol cars outside my window today, i'm still surrounded by items made of plastics etc.
>>"Oil use will be almost zero."
- Yes, and 5billion will be starved.
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
>> " electric cars"
- Seen many electric Aeroplanes or Ships lately ?
(electric trains,trams - i'll give you that, they exist - but they're a small minority of the transport actually used.
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz Have you ever been to new york city or any part of japan ? Actaully most of the uk takes public transportation, i have quite a few friends that only take buses in the uk. Air planes are a different story all together and most use cleaner fuels than oil. Look it up not kidding.
Zamriasra 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
"air planes .. cleaner fuels than oil"
- once again - the pollution is a moot point compared to the fuels actually running out.
Do you have any examples of (man-sized,cargo-carrying) flying machines that use renewables ? (hangliders maybe..) There's helium Balloons of course I conceed.
I know americans are capable of car-free life too. But its a moot point. Even if EVERYONE cycles, lives in dormitories, we still need fossil-fueled industry to eat. (pesticides, fertilizer,trade)
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
been to japan yes, impossibly high population density enabled by fossil-fuels.
busses .. great today, future is 'horse and cart'. The bicycle is my favoured transport, shame it rains so much. covered Tunnels with collective drafting would be great. but Cars are the easiest thing to fix. Its FOOD that we'll struggle with. Will 1st world countries open their borders to let in starving billions from africa & asia ? i think not...
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz there are only 15 million people each year dieing from starvation. Billions is an over statement by far, thinkquest org did an article about that stat... second thing the japanese population was able to grow so much because most of japan is ethier cities or farm there is no inbetweens. You have people who live in the cities then you have people who work on farms. I would say they have one of the denses populations because they can feed their people pretty easily.
Zamriasra 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
it will indeed be Billions that starve after peak oil. Longterm systainable popoulation minus fossil fuel input is in the range 0.5-2billion.
the extra people will most likely die in resource wars.
"best case scenario" is this catastrophe is spread out over 100 years.. death by a thousand cuts. just 1% per year - perpetual WorldWar2 for the rest of the century.
Japan likely so dense as its island feeding of sea & trade i guess (like uk) globalization fed 800million with sail ships
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
reminds me of the line in superman returns,
'but millions of people will die'.
"no, BILLIONS!"
yup its no exageration. at least 2 out of every 3 are doomed in the longrun.
Thats why the bankers etc are so desperate to 'dig in'. only sure way to ensure longterm survival is to have bunker with supplies. but military will run the show i'm sure.
The Future is brutal, authoritarian police-states where civilization continues, and somalia level anarchy elsewhere.
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz I just posted an article :P with the true stats it's not in the billions as you say. Show me a place that says billions are dieing each year for starvation and i will believe you. The bunkers are also for the 2012 conperecy which is relevent to the topic at hand. Unless you have anything to continue the arguement it looks like i have on upped you.
Zamriasra 8 months ago
@Zamriasra
- I think you skim over my posts.. Yes, only millions starve now.
but, I said,
Billions *WILL* starve after the oil runs out. not "billions ARE starving now".
While oil still flows, we can feed ever increasing numbers.
Thats the whole problem. We are like bacteria in a petri dish, feeding off FINITE oil.
Energy & food are interchangeable.
r.e. 2012/NWO- I dont beleive but scarily a pre-emptive extermination IS the best survival tactic, given Peak Oil, 'no smoke without fire' ?
walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
2012 / NWO.. many variants on the theory. The most plausible-
[1] the worlds elite have known about Peak Oil & impending billions-starving for decades. (club-of-rome reports in 70's, etc). They run the global machine so know.
[2] they figure, rather than take their chances with everyone else, they're better off hiding in bunkers and causing a deliberate die-off, so they garantee their own survival.
[3] it might not even need to be a co-ordinated effort for it to look like that.
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz I want an article proving this or it is just a he said she said arguement.
Zamriasra 8 months ago
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walter0bz 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
The best article is by Matt Savinar, I seriously recomend you read it;
google for "matt savinar peak oil die off ", its the first PDF link.
Long, but its' done on a numbered point-by-point basis.
I've tried to get all my friends & family to read it.. about half are convinced. The other half are in denial because they have kids.
He shows link between energy & oil & predicted financial meltdown as prelude, he said that back in 2003
walter0bz 8 months ago
@walter0bz i just wrote a pdf that says the world will end in 30 seconds its a pdf so it's true right? i want a creditable source
Zamriasra 8 months ago
@Zamriasra -
Its just simple facts & logic applied to those facts. credible source - 'hubbert'.
How far did you get through the PDF;
If you think its BS, use the numbered points - I invite you to retort here at me.
i agree with 95% of it. I can discuss the 5% i disagreed with too.
I enjoy arguing this - it is THE most important issue in the world.
walter0bz 8 months ago
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You fucking idiot the world population can fit in texas with 1200 square feet per person you monkey. you probably dont even have a house thats 1200 square feet. the world isnt overpopulated and it never will be i say have as many kids as possible
TheRivetthead 9 months ago
THIS IS Y I DONT HAV A FULL-TIME JOB...WHO KNEW????.
chadberry75 9 months ago
Human Overpopulation is the # 1 Problem!!! Hello Us Humans... Why are we not talking about this! What just happen to Japan is sad that it happen, but, Mother Nature is good when she does it. But, this Needs to Happen alll around the world like it or not. We need at most, 4.2 billion people off this earth, yes gone. Hey Mother Nature it is Hunting season on Humans. Mother Nature lets get busy...
suzukidas2 10 months ago
SEE!! futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition here's a petition that has been sent to every single government in the world, all major NGO's dealing with population and development, to US Ambassadors in every Nation, to President Obama, to Vice-President Biden, and to Secretary of State Clinton...everyone! And here it's to you!
imamovic2 1 year ago
the human being will have their day, one day----
deviatea 1 year ago
At least China has done one thing right: "Population Control" I say it may be what we DONT want but we need to do something about it and fast. The Worlds population will more than DOUBLE in the next 20 years. All in all we may wanna have more kids, or just more than 1 but we are living in a world with a population crisis that will only get MUCH WORSE if we dont do something about that. we may not want to and many may deny it. but its time we ALL GET WITH THE FUCKING PROGRAM!!!
RockhardIbanhead 1 year ago 5
some humans should never ever breed. you know who you are. i dont have to tell you. you manage to tell me though. by the way you think. you are not worthy to pass on your genes. your genetic material is pollution. you are bitter with no capacity for individual thinking. you are a follower. a vegetable. you cant remember the last time you were happy. you want everyone dead. so that you can feel good about yourself. you are mentally sick. its unlikely you will have sex anyway its not your way.
datzfast 1 year ago
The BANKER agenda is CREATING the problems that we see before us, and forcing humanity into a banker’s enslavement solution.
Poverty is CAUSED by bankers. National instability is CAUSED by bankers. All the big wars have been CAUSED by bankers.
BANKERS ARE THE ENEMY
centurion180ad 1 year ago
" Billionaires Decide Who Lives Who Dies "
If you haven't seen this video on You Tube ...
you must see it...about 5 min long. Its happening folks... if you don't know it... your not watching.
" Billionaires Decide Who Lives Who Dies "
onstageagain 1 year ago
in another 100 yrs earth will be know as the galactic ghetto, one big center city slum
toob247 1 year ago
@Christianitylol well how do rednecks who hit their head on bibles have somthing to do with population growth!!
cam9408 1 year ago
@cam9408 Hmm, I thought it was pretty obvious, but here goes. Religious (aka dumb) motherfuckers are the ones who are most likely to "go forth and multiply" with not a second thought to the child's physiological and psychological well being. They just breed like dirty animals. It's not only rednecks. It's all ignorant people.
batmanpronz 1 year ago 3
@WhiteFlowerLei76 wat r u goin on about with the redneck thing?
cam9408 1 year ago
@cam9408 I'm not sure how his post could be misinterpreted.
Christianitylol 1 year ago
I'll go along w/the "Bhagavad Gita," & the sacred writings that profess the Spirit to be ageless & eternal, that Man is a useful passion, & that to kill an unborn child is a crime of Universal dimension. I find these doctrinal musings more appealing than the "Globaloneyism" parroted by eugenicists Bill Gates, Richard Dawkins, Ted Turner, Goodall, Cousteau & Kenyan Obama, the proposition being that Man is less significant than snail darters, kangaroo rats, logger-head turtles & speckled owls.
ThingsTerrestrial 1 year ago
HUMANE GLOBAL BIRTH CONTROL LAWS is all I can say.
vmorgun 1 year ago 21
@vmorgun I like how you said "humane" as the first word of that sentence. Why'd you do that? Like saying "humane" means everybody's going to jump on board this crazy train. And "global"? Wow. But, I'll pay for your birth control. (: I wouldn't want you reproducing, either.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 wow, wow, hold on there :) I am just having a discussion here. besides. Let me explain myself so there is no misunderstanding. humane - against war/famine human suffering etc. Global - this is one planet w/many countries, so its fair (some details will have to be worked out.) LOL I use birth control/protection :) so you have nothing to worry about. I'm not trying to hurt peoples feelings, also I am not a politician or a scientist. :) War, Famine etc vs. condoms, international laws.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun - "War, Famine etc vs. condoms, international laws." -
So, there are no other options than the two you proposed, then? Let's think about this. How do wars start? How are wars funded? Does the 3rd World starve because there is not enough food, or because there is too much beaurocracy? Why is international law necessary for a problem that happens in people's bedrooms?
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 I support the idea of global birth control. There are many predictions by experts on wars of the future: it is said they will be RESOURCE BASED, and there will be many. There are limited resources - a fact that should not be surprising. The 3rd world is screwed in more than one way, yes it is sad. 1st world doesn't give a shit about them (mostly) and is making a profit by "helping" them in many cases. :) Why global birth control? does it mean you can't have 11 kids and van?
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun - "There are many predictions by experts on wars of the future: it is said they will be RESOURCE BASED" - Name one war that hasn't been "RESOURCED BASED"./// - "There are many predictions by experts" - Like the great financial geniuses who claim they never saw the 'Great Recession' coming? Or, how about those intellectual giants at the local TV station who can't even give an accurate 5 day forcaste?/// Resources are limited because people make them limited.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 It is just a prediction, and yes: even in religious wars it comes down to recourses. btw just because some experts are corrupt or make mistakes, we should not dismiss all of them as idiots. :) I was talking about global overpopulation problem: yes there is terrible corruption and greed, but are you saying that our planet has infinite resources? If one was to think that way, prepare for disappointment. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun In a a way the world does, in fact, have infinite renewable resources. People automatically equate resources with fossil fuel. This isn't so. Water is always replenished. Trees contiously grow, if we let them. And now we're looking into biodiesel, which is also renewable. What would the Green Movement be if there wasn't "infinite" resources? That's's the whole premise. It's a matter of using those resources with responsibility.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 I support green movement, if it was up to me or planet would run on wind, sun, wave, hydrogen, magnetic etc. We have only so much land to grow healthy food (maybe organic) and let people have good housing, let animals roam on large areas of the planet, deal with poverty and disease effectively, not live on geographically dangerous areas (Hurricane Katrina f.e.) the list can go on! Human Global Population Control is not the enemy of renewable resources or Green Tech. Future is Green
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun I'm all for the Green movement but stay out of the way two people want to have their own family. I don't care if government makes it "legal" to control births. It would be a tyranny of the worst sort because nobody, nobody, has the right to do that.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 One thing about me: I never stay out of the way when it comes to my interest, also I see no problem with what is right and proven a fact. Even by looking at nature you will see animals control their population, sometimes kill their young for this reason. We have Technology and Humanity. "Two people" can have a family, under Humane Global Birth Control Laws. WAR, FAMINE, POVERTY is no tyranny to you, High 5 buddy! Please do research.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun -"Even by looking at nature you will see animals control their population"- I'd like a source for that, please. Thank you. /// Do you believe in a woman's "right to choose" over whether or not she has an abortion?
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@Tender LOL you do have google right? here is a totally random link (took me a few seconds). ןɯʇɥ˙ןoɹʇuoɔ-uoıʇɐןndod-sɐ-ɯsıןɐqıuuɐɔ-ɐǝsɹǝpun/ǝɔuǝıɔs/40/90/1002/ɯoɔ˙sǝɯıʇʎu˙ʍʍʍ//:dʇʇɥ There are many ways to control the population, abortion being one of them. I am no abortion expert, (again, abortion is not the only option). The only place where overpopulation problem is so bad that the government steps in is in China. It is my guess India will soon be faced with this moral dilemma as well
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun China is also one of the most oppressive regimes in the entire world. The "overpopulation" arguement, I still don't agree with. And definately, not settling the problem through forced abortions, and you still didn't answer my last question. It's "yes" or "no".
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 I am totally fine and dandy with abortions (early ones). It seems you are focused on abortion alone. Global population can be controlled in many ways (getting your tubes tied after 1st child, pills, condoms, vasectomy, etc. new methods are emerging). The details will be handled by the courts, I'm no mastermind here.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun So, you're for a woman's right to choose abortion, but not to choose the size of her family?
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 What are you getting at? I support Humane Global Population Control Laws. Seize of family is regulated in many countries, and why only woman's rights? what if its a mans idea and he want's his partner to have a child? If you put your emotions aside maybe it will not be so frightening to you.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun Excuse me, but when you're talking about people's children, it's always going to be an emotional issue. You're unfeeling, but don't ask me to be cold along with you.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 I don't think I'm cold. What I meant to say is lack of education on this subject is a big obstacle, so feel free to do your own research. I am not talking about children, I am talking about Humane Global Population Control Laws. How many children a family/parent can have is a big deal. Will you have no emotions when global population is controlled naturally and people (babies/children) die from war/famine for example? No emotions huh?
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun What war? What famine? And how will the issue of overpopulation instigate them? Do you even know who really instigates wars? Because they're not prime ministers or presidents.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 There is war and famine going on planet earth while you type this message. Overpopulation is a "root cause" of many problems: directly and indirectly. I support Humane Global Population Control Laws. You wrote: "Do you even know who really instigates wars?" - LOL I'll bet you do. But don't tell me - keep it a secret :) Most wars I can think of are resource based. I appreciate everyone's effort to bring awareness to the overpopulation issue.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun Homework assignment: Go look up the nations of the 3rd World and see how much debt they're in. See who they owe it to. And, that's why there are wars and famine, and it's not because of overpopulation. It's all about money. Wars and famines are always about money. PS Google: "ireland, famine, trevelyan". I dare you.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 I have done a bit of research: capitalism, free market system, lack of regulation. The system itself is built in a pyramid-like way, and yes - the 3rd world gets a modern form of slavery. It is the way the system is built - like a wolf. You might also know that continuous population increase is what feeds it, more people need to be in place of those who used to be there. (very simply put ofcourse).
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun The problem isn't too little regulation. It's too much regulation. How many wars and famines were there in Subsaharan Africa before European colonists carved it up and started setting their own regulations? It's the regulators that tell them where and what they can't farm, can't build, can't buy, can't live on. This causes the poverty, war, and disease. PS Spare me the "Africans don't know any better, so they have to be told like little children, because we're smarter than them" bit.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 I think what you are referring to is Imperialism - Empire would go into little countries and make them grow only coffee (for example) and little countries would sell this product to the empire in exchange for goods from the Empire. This made little countries weak and reliant on the Empire made them like helpless kids without parents. They crippled them, it's a classic move. People can have a problem understanding you because regulations are sometimes something different.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun I don't care what name people give to what I described. It's the real problem and the true reason for wars, famine and disease. Overpopulation is a myth.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 :) Without a name there is no problem. Problem itself is a name. Let's just agree to disagree, because I get the impression that you think overpopulation is not tied into your cause. If it goes against your beliefs, or whatever other reason, if you are honest to yourself based on facts you know when you say overpopulation is a myth: I say good for you - everyone has a right to an opinion. I support Humane Global Population Control Laws - based on what I know, and it is my opinion.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun 100% Agreed. 80 millions annual plus (thats the population of germany!) is definetly insane. Religion and selfishness are the triggers of mindless reproduction.
MillyVanillification 1 year ago
@MillyVanillification So true. I think some religious organizations should be held responsible for saying things like: "go and multiply" etc.
vmorgun 1 year ago
@vmorgun Thats bullshit. People should have the freedom to do what they want like having kids. The best solution is to release a weaponised virus into all third world countries.
kevmanev 11 months ago
@kevmanev Really? Is that as healthy as your logic can get? Even if we were to ignore the fact that it would be inhumane, the virus would travel to every country very fast. What would the long-term effects of this virus? Maybe you are joking. As time goes on and situation deteriorates less people will share your opinion that having (many) children is a right.
vmorgun 11 months ago
@kevmanev no. What gives us the right to remain virus free and populate as much as we desire? People in any country, no matter what their circumstance should have equal rights. A widespread virus isn't the solutiuon. Humane birth contol.
TheECSGskier 9 months ago
@vmorgun nope
live4pce 8 months ago
The first voice pwns
Cotter2589 1 year ago
stop having children
sebaslocoxx 1 year ago
@sebaslocoxx Yes. Exactly. Thats a very simple and effective approach. Somehow people can't associate their birth rate with overpopulation. To me this is a sure sign that people are not much smarter than yeast on the big scale.
MillyVanillification 1 year ago
Hemp can save the Planet. FOOD<work<CLOTHING<HOMES<FUEL solves all the hunger and work problems...Done with Hemp legalize it now.
conspiracymedia 1 year ago
The world is overpopulated. I've known far too many uneducated unstable bible thumping rednecks who are obsessed with having as many children as possible regardless of whether they are capable of properly caring for those children. Poverty is a horrid form of violence and leaves its victims powerless, desperate and too often extremely dangerous.
WhiteFlowerLei76 1 year ago 14
@WhiteFlowerLei76 The world is overpopulated with BANKERS. A rational resistance to imperialism, is to have a large family. All excess property is stolen by the bankers, so every penny is placed into the mouth of a child.
centurion180ad 1 year ago
@WhiteFlowerLei76
right and those bible thumping rednecks dont nearly make as much babies as say chinese, indians, africans or mexicans.
Rao665 11 months ago
@WhiteFlowerLei76 This is just another one of the reasons why I hold mankind in contempt; a bunch of self-serving, lazy retards not willing to work unless it is absolutely necessary. Nobody wants to solve the population problem. Why? It'll take time, money, and lots of work; the three things that people hate the most. And who's going to like being told that they can't have any children? We need a major epidemic, like Ebola, or an accidental release of weaponized smallpox from a lab.
pinheadman665 5 months ago
@pinheadman665 -
not having kids is actually less work than having kids, IMO
it should be easy. it just takes explaining the problem and getting people to understand it... thats the difficult bit
walter0bz 5 months ago
around 1 minute in you speak of young families in the industrialized world making more families. This is true BUT those families in the first world tend to be one child families. This is the cause for the declining birth rate in first world countries. This is not the case in the developing world where large families tend to be the norm.
TheCaptainLulz 1 year ago
Perfectly said dude... no one would understand this unless you live in those countries, anyone who thing over population is OK come live in India/China and then comment!
mayankme 1 year ago 2
DUDE GLOBAL WARMING IS A FRAUD AND OVERPOLULATION IS A FRAUD WHERE HAVE U BEEN? A CAVE? infowarsDOTcom
DarkHero187 1 year ago
all bull shit theres no overpopulation unless people start having more than 6 kids
but 2 kids per family is perfect.
DarkHero187 1 year ago
when it goes on like this probably war, diseases or disasters will end the overpopulation
kutubu1 1 year ago
I call BULL CRAP! It's been proven that if you were to take every human being on this planet and brought them all together, we could fit them all in the state of Texas with 1,000 sq feet of living space for each person. It's not the amount of people, it's what the people do, or do not do to their enviorment.
jeangrey65 1 year ago
@jeangrey65 "...we could fit them all in the state of Texas with..."
So have you heard the rebuttal to this argument or not? If not, then keep your uneducated opinions to yourself. If you have, then tell us what they are, and why you think they're wrong. I'm tired of hearing the same tired arguments from people who refuse to acknowledge reality.
ManicEightBall 1 year ago
@ManicEightBall And I'm tired of chicken littles who's life revolves around "THE SKY IS FALLING!"
jeangrey65 1 year ago
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@jeangrey65
...and I'm also tired of name calling. If you have a real argument - make it.
ManicEightBall 1 year ago
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listen. the 1% that reap 99% of the profits on the planet have not spent A SINGLE DOLLAR OF THEIR PROFITS on either CLEANING up, CHANGING the MODES of production, creating electricity through sun or wave instead of coal. and they have the ABSOLUTE UNMITIGATED _GALL_ to blame the poorest 3 billion who live in PERFECT harmony with nature because they buy, consume and demand _nothing_ except the left over plants that they can find!
gunthaarz 1 year ago
two children per woman, should be the law, in fact, i'd say 1 children per woman for the next 100 yrs, and then we allow 2. We are meant to die like at 35, but we have way too many people now
dalecampbl5 1 year ago
Two children ONLY for each qualified couple. A very simple formula. (Qualified means: financially capable and psychologically fit.). In other words -- LESS BIRTHS than deaths, until the global population is down to around 1-Billion.
J7Rod7 1 year ago
The Western lifestyle is by far the biggest threat the environment. Yeah, Americans may have fewer children than people in third world nations, but Americans use exponentially more resources and fuel. It's disgusting. I cringe when I hear about people having kids anymore. Enough already!!!!!
VooDooLynx 1 year ago
The west is over populated based on what these guys are saying. Is it about gross total people or gross total that are using resources? If its the latter then the 3rd world is barely scratching the surface in terms of environmental degradation.
ChristiansMustLearn 2 years ago
We all need breathing space so seriously people stop having so maany godamn kids!!!
NinjaChampionKO 2 years ago
This prune, plain Jane Goody
Goodall, must be processed.
LovingKimiKatkar 2 years ago
@LovingKimiKatkar IUCN figures show that in 2006 800 animals and 100 plant species went extinct. High biodiversity creates stability in ecosystem services which provide trillions in free services for mankind every year. If you lose them you have to pay to replace them.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
the poor must perish and well offs must live,we know your script!
400yearAfricanplan 2 years ago
Nope, the rich must accept that their way of life is only possible for all if they have smaller families and the poor want access to free voluntary contraception.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
Earth can sustain a population of 77.1 BILLION people you Satanic sick fuck. Get your facts straight. The Population of the Earth can only reach a maximum of 8.4 Billion before it's leveled off. I guess you never bothered to check your facts. Guess what, you can take every person on earth right now and send them to Australia, every person would have a little more than 1/4 acre to themselves, more than enough to grow your own food on a daily basis. Save Earth, Stop Breathing, starting with YOU!
FireZeus 2 years ago
70% of Australia is arid or semi arid. I could never feed, water and shelter 6 billion let alone 9 billion. As it is if everyone lived like an american we would need 5 earth's! You need to look up and understand exponential growth function.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
Did you not realize that Aus. also has a Huge underground lake and river system? Guess you never heard of harvesting water from the Atmosphere either huh? Guess you never heard that 1 Human needs 1 10x10 ft. space of Earth to keep them fed for the rest of their life. You have NO idea what or how to live off the land. You're nothing but a Pete and Repeat for the NWO and their Racist/Fascist anti Human stances. Seriously lay off the Koolaid full of Fluoride and Mercury and the GMO McDonald's food.
FireZeus 2 years ago
So you actually want a neighbour on every side of you just 10 feet away do you? Why aren't you living in a slum then. Humans need a minimum of half an acre, thats for non meat farming. If you want meat you need to multiply that by ten.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
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Blatant shit. There is no scientific evidence that the world is overpopulated. There is no scientific evidence that we will not find the resources need to sustain our growing culture when we colonise the moon and mars.
PonguigPeopinn 2 years ago 2
All this talk of overpopulation is coming from one group of people meant to deceive the Sheeple into thinking committing suicide for Mother Gaia will save her. Funny how those that claim the Earth is overpopulated want others to kill themselves first.....
FireZeus 2 years ago
The Earth might not be overpopulated, but if these trends follow the way they are going, then there will be overpopulation, and soon
kid43332 2 years ago
More Financial stability= Less Population. Less Financial stability= More Population. Funny how the same people creating the Global Criminal Financial bubbles are also the same ones offering the Solutions as Genocide? It's called Problem, Reaction, Solution. All this talk about overpopulation is bullshit. It's all coming from the Elitist assholes that run the World. Their power is dwindling and Sovereign peoples around the Planet are waking up to their lies and deceptions. Genocide? No Thanks!
FireZeus 2 years ago
Genocide and voluntary contraception e.g. condoms are not the same thing.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
No shit Sherlock. The fact that your entire way of thinking is because you've been had by the far extreme leftists thinking that through Mass Genocide ie. Global Government and Higher taxes to completely eliminate the Industrialised World will bring a Utopia. Sorry but I don't agree with the Elites that push these agendas that the human race needs to go back to a pre-Industrial age in order to save "Mother Gaea" What that is, is a Satanic Cabalic Oligarchy bent on Power and Destruction. Wake Up!
FireZeus 2 years ago
My way of thinking that voluntray contraception makes a population more sustainable and stable comes from arithmetic and a knowledge of the exponential function that makes any form of growth unsustainable in the long run. You cannot separate the difference between voluntary non coercive contraception and genocide then thats you problem!
sharkblubber 2 years ago
You're leaving the 800 lb. Gorilla out of the picture. The Elite Power in the Global Government have guided humanity for 300 years. The ONLY time in history where these Bastards did not have control was the early 1700's in North and South America. Since they've achieved so much power and have molded the World in the way THEY want it, Of course your way of thinking there are too many people seems fair. BUT, if/when people break the chain of Oligarchy will you see the Earth much more "sustainable"
FireZeus 2 years ago
@FireZeus No one needs to go back to the pre industrial age, there just needs to be less of us for everyone to live comfortably and sustainably.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
What, you can't live comfortably? Maybe get up off your ass and do something that decreases BIG Government Banksters that are causing all the problems in the World, i.e overfishing, over harvesting and spreading famine and diseases. If anything needs less people it's criminal organizations hiding themselves behind badges and fear mongering media spin in order to attain their high ground of more control over over you. You do know that sustainability today does mean Global Genocide right?
FireZeus 2 years ago
@FireZeus I was specifically talking about those who live in poverty when talking about lack of comfort and as you well know i do have an issue with those rich people who consume faster than nature can replace.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
Your Beef is with GOVERNMENT PIGS not the common people of the World. It's those Psychopath fear mongering, war mongers that control media and nearly every facet of the Human species lives that have steered the World into the direction that it's been headed for the last few decades. You can't blame a Dog for biting someone when it's been taught and abused to do so. If you want to help people then teach them to STOP relying on Government/Corporations to be their Big Daddy and to be self reliant.
FireZeus 2 years ago
You aren't the common people, you live in a walmart loving overconsuming society. The poor don't consume as much as you.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
You don't get it do you. Okay you want to talk about Wal Mart. Alright, I guess Wal Mart being run out of New York and owned by the FBI and many Zionist shareholders of Israel and the Mormon church as a front organization for money profiteering has nothing to do with BIG Government now does it? Your enemy is NOT the American people, nor anyone other group of people with the exception of criminals who's membership and alliances are with the CFR, Bilderbergs, Club of Rome and Trilateral Commission
FireZeus 2 years ago
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No shit Sherlock. The fact that your entire way of thinking is because you've been had by the far extreme leftists thinking that through Mass Genocide ie. Global Government and Higher taxes to completely eliminate the Industrialised World will bring a Utopia. Sorry but I don't agree with the Elites that push these agendas that the human race needs to go back to a pre-Industrial age in order to save "Mother Gaea" What that is, is a Satanic Cabalic Oligarchy bent on Power and Destruction. Wake Up!
FireZeus 2 years ago
Yeah funny
kid43332 2 years ago
condoms and voluntary contraception don't kill people you imbecile, you really should learn to separate different things.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
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I think the best way to reduce carbon emissions in the west is to have an immigration moratorium. Statistics clearly show the USA population grew by 100 million in the last 40 years and nearly all the growth was due to immigration.
The west could drasically reduce carbon emissions with a reduction in immigration and population and would have nearly stable growth in the USA with a moratorium on immigration.
rocketsredglare101 2 years ago 2
the global population growing like this because of poverty. although the poverty % has gone down from 40% in the 1980s down to 15% sometime in 21st century, there is still much work needed to end poverty.
raising women social statuses to same as men, ending corruption (africa looses 150 billion to corruption annually) and building new schools there etc etc will help alot also.
cpretartedmuch 2 years ago
we are overpopulated cause our population is no where sustanable, why? one of the biggest reasons is that we are still using a highly finite resource. in only 5 decades, oil will become very scares and will not meet the future energy demands. 10 billion, per capita on average higher then now.
we need to get out of oil, get to clean renewables. the earth will be able to cope better.
cpretartedmuch 2 years ago
It's sooner than 5 decades til peak oil. Peak oil will hit by 2020 according to the ultra cautious IEA. After that its oil price rises and famine due to lack of synthetic fertilisers for intensive farming. Oil is the primary source of synthetic fertilisers.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
It hit in 2005.....
grahamhg 2 years ago
My generation will not have great grand children. There won't be an earth left unless we can topple the megacorporations and the greed system that has enslaved the whole goddamn world.The human race will either wake up, or it will die.Go ahead, keep denying it. You have no love for your own great grand children because you don't know them personally because they aren't born yet. You will continue to live your life of willful excess and the whole damn planet will die because of your stubbornness.
Psychentist 2 years ago
Maybe that's our purpose. Maybe humanity is meant to do that, to expand and grow at all costs, just like bacteria! We are mould on a sandwich...
kid43332 2 years ago
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Psychentist 2 years ago
LOL BULL SHIT!!!!
all 6 billion people of the planet could all live in texas.
the biological materal there has more then enough potential to make all food they would need too. do the math.
the problem is only that people tends to live in the same city, leaving most of the rest of the country empty, like australia etc... And that is overpopulation that harms the nature there, but it's only limited to that particular area!
clarkcolt45 2 years ago
@clarkcolt45
Sorry but to produce enough food for the world population requires a finite fuel, oil. We only have 40 years left at best. No oil=75-95% lower yields of crops.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
That's wrong..
My country for example has stopped to produce food at all, just in the last 20 years. Only because we can buy it from those who work with less salary, farmers in the baltic etc.
But, we are able to start growing on our lands again when/if it gets profitable to grow here again. And that WILL be the case in that worst case scenario you are talking about.
clarkcolt45 2 years ago
@clarkcolt45 Land isn't the issue, its how much yield you get and without oil we couldn't get high yields anywhere. We also have the issue of how to transport the food in large quantities from other countries without oil? At present we use half the land on the planet for food and resource extraction, the other half is either uninhabitable or unfarmable.
sharkblubber 2 years ago
Are you from LietuvaS?
kid43332 2 years ago
Also, we in the rich countries will have no problem in getting electric farm equipment, since we already sold our diesel tractors etc. to the ones that are making our food abroad now.
Electric technology is cheap even today and has gone so far even in the last few years. And it's going to be even cheaper when the demand is rising.
I don't believe in ethanol for obvious reasons (u need to farm to make it too lol), but electric just gets cheaper and we build more plants(nuclear).
clarkcolt45 2 years ago
@clarkcolt45 electric equipment that used oil to manufacture. Plastics, lubricants, machinery, factories all run on fossil fuels. Nuclear/wind will supply energy, but not food:(
sharkblubber 2 years ago
ah, don't be that pessimistic! ;)
There's a lot of possibilities, in my country for example we have a lot of JUNK that we could build useful stuff from if it was profitable.. me for example has 3 old cars and i only use one,, my family has 130 acres of land and 30 of farmland but we don't farm so it's almost growing forrest there again LOL
However, in the case of emergency, I assure you that I would drag the damn plow BY HAND if needed, cuz the prices would skyrocket.
clarkcolt45 2 years ago
@clarkcolt45 sorry, i know I sound pessimistic but thats beause I have seen the figures for peak oil. It worries me that the current population is only sustainable as long as oil is produced, without it, most of us our screwed. oil is only going to last 40 years, tops
sharkblubber 2 years ago
Yeah I agree.
The export-import market is not sustainable without oil. But my biggest problem with oil is that it's going to be war.
However, we still hold a lot of stuff that's going to be expensive and hard to produce when oil fails.
But thinking about 40 years, then I wouldn't worry about oil at all but the risk of nuclear war because we continue to fuel China with out money because we're too lazy to work for our own.
clarkcolt45 2 years ago
Hey. But what about all these renewable sources that are becoming more and more economically feasible? E.g. Sunlight, wind, water, hydrogen, etc...If you can power an entire house (these exist), even a neighbourhood or a city with just hydrogen, then you could imagine feeding people without the need for oil, right? There buildings out there and do not pollute, they use the sun's energy and they grow their own crops indoors...all wthiout oil...
kid43332 2 years ago