Abortion Survivors - Unlawful Arrests - Alameda 5

[jonguyton1]

if something is a right you do not need government approval to do it. If you have to have approval it is a privilege not a right.

[MiniJenJen]

I'm pro-choice and think protesting with images of abortion is a seriously asshole thing to do. HOWEVER... I'm glad the charges were dropped, because yes, we all have freedom of speech. Our opinions are what makes us human. I find it strange that you guys could do this but Westborough Baptist Church can picket military funerals and the likes. Good on you for standing your ground.

[613maccabee]

Abortion is legal but, if you kill a pregnant women you will be charged with double homicide.

[kevrs2]

pro choice what the hell does that mean,!!! .....wish the hell i had the choice about a lot of things in this world,but one of them wouldn't be killing unborn children ,but i guess its only a matter of time ,for when ever science enables a man to carry a fetus ,and he even utters the word abortion thats when it will be banned .....mark my words!!!

[TwistToy]

the camera woman is a bitch though. this vid is all about freedoms, but she goes and puts her disrespectful two cents in. stay out of peoples business.

[scannerman0025]

Whatever happend to the first amendment freedom of speech

[em2skunk2]

apparently the camera woman is ugly and she just took it

[fleck140]

Public Property. She had every right to be there (notification or not). This country is going down the tubes because local law enforcement is more concerned with enforcing laws then protecting the rights of the citizen. Every officer should re-acquaint himself/herself with the oath to defent the Constitution. It is their primary duty above local ordinances. Some really scary attitudes are developing in this country.

[seanmat510]

you have the right to protest, but not unless you have filled out the required forms. If you had filed the proper paperwork you wouldn't have been kicked off

[613maccabee]

@seanmat510 WTF? If they are on public property then the 1st ammendment of the bill of rights to the constitution gives them permission. they do not need to fill out "paper work"

[nightowl2be]

And where is the ACLU to defend the freedome of speech of these protesters? Just because they are not stating liberal view points. I would definitely see about a civil lawsuit against this college. And is this the same college that is thinking about expelling two students because they prayed for a sick professor (and got her permission)? They were in an office and I know of people who pray in my college cafeteria before they eat (and I go to a liberal college).

[nightowl2be]

Ok, I'm not religious and I have mixed feelings about abortion. But I really hate the double standards that there is in this country. I mean you can have pro-choice rallies and pro-abortion rallies at these public funded colleges, especially liberal colleges will let you protest. However, if you have a differing opinion and are pro-life then you run into these obstacles. These protesters were peaceful and I don't think was a disturbance.

[boatbrain3]

Please file a Federal Title 42 Section 1983 Civil Rights Lawsuit against the Peralta College District. You are likely to win, and get a lot of money for your cause, and help us all get free speech.

[ASHIUSX]

then I get to protest right next to you...and hopefully we can start a riot. That will solve all the problems.

[Dmar198]

@boatbrain3 We're on it. :)

[19downey91]

You should have left the lady walking by alone. It is none of your business what her views are. No one cares what yours are because they belong to you (like your body). The nursing homes in America rarily get visitors. I sure you would be a treat to the old people...just keep a sock in it.

[markpianoman]

Our society is so sick....to not tolerate justice and love the evil of pro-choice and abortion.

[Chill197]

How is choosing to abort a bunch of cells or a fetus evil nature does it all the time

[Dmar198]

"How is choosing to abort a bunch of cells or a fetus evil [since] nature does it all the time[?]"

To destroy a living human is not our prerogative. Therefore to do so -- i.e. through abortion -- is evil regardless of what nature does.

[Chill197]

No bodys forced into replacing themselfs we only have a limited amount of resources most animals die out because they end up being overpopulated

[Dmar198]

@Chill197 Is overpopulation a reason to kill anyone? No, it is not. Then don't use it as a reason to kill the unborn.

[Noahedwinbeach2]

since we die naturally I guess we should start capping lifetimes then..what age should we start killing people? 50? 60? What age is convenient for you? I mean its natural that people die all the time anyways so whats wrong with killing people?

[ASHIUSX]

Nothing. War happens all the time. You would kill someone if you had to. And an old person rotting away natrually in a chair for the last 3 years of there life unable to comprehend anything could be easily remided with a ton of morphine to release them from that torment. And infantacide happens all the time. we just know how to do it humanly now, before the child has the ability to feel pain.

[weberly2]

you don't think anything is intrinsically wrong with killing people? as long as it benefits someone else, right. it should be done humanely and with some kind of reasoning behind it, i assume, like kill off the ones who serve no purpose and live off of society. yeah? this is choice, but only if you are the strong. this means your rights can be given, and taken away.

[ASHIUSX]

Your rights can be given and taken away. It happened in world war 2 when they imprisioned the japanese here in america just because they were japanese. Killing people is wrong, but allowing 5 people to suffer so one stays alive is not a good way to run things. If those 5 people are willing then great! But it isn't fair to make them take care of this individual because you think it's wrong to let someone die, then you leave the situation while those people suffer.

[ASHIUSX]

is it evil to kill a parasite in you that is feeding off of your nutrients?

[weberly2]

if it's a worm, no, if it happens to be a human, yes. this is just another attempt to strip the humanity off a fetus. Jews were called subhuman and parasites, and then they were murdered. we said black people were less than a whole human, and then we beat and enslaved them.

[ASHIUSX]

There is a difference there. the fetus cannot feel pain nor does it undertsand anything in the first 10 weeks. it isnt developed enough. It's the biological equivelent of menstrating at that point. After 10 weeks it is not right to abort, but before it is completely up to the mother, and it is you who is discriminating by saying it isn't up to her.

[weberly2]

they do abortions up to 40 weeks! yes it is wrong, but i'm glad to see you at least have a standard, and i hope you're right about that 10 week fetus not feeling anything.

[ASHIUSX]

I am right. they lack the ability to feel pain, they have a central nervous system, but do not have the connections from it to the brian to register pain. and I agree. you should know right away about an abortion or not, you do not go 20 weeks then say...opps! im goin to abort. But before 10 weeks i do not see the problem.

[Dmar198]

@ASHIUSX "the fetus cannot feel pain nor does it understand anything in the first 10 weeks."

So it's okay to kill a human if they can't feel it and don't understand? Let's make that a law. And you'll start watching where you sleep.

No, how about this: it's never okay to kill a human life, it may only be permitted in a war or against an uncontrollable, unjust aggressor. That is the only rational morality re: life, and it will make abortion illegal. Do you have a problem with it? What?

[ASHIUSX]

@Dmar198 lol it isn't a human, it is the start of a human and if it is allowed to sap enough nutrients from it's host, it will grow to be one. What about the human who is already grown and has the right to choose whatever she wants to do with her body? In fact "and uncontrollable, unjust agressor" could be a fetus...stealing the building blocks for it's life from it's host. I just don't think there is a difference between a living worm eating off your body...or a fetus. It is all life.

[ASHIUSX]

LMAO @ "BITCH THAT'S WHY YOU'RE UGLY" Jesus christ on the cross that fucking hilarious. Anyway why is it sad to be pro-choice?

[markpianoman]

It is sad to be pro-choice allowing people to kill the defenseless. It would be less sad to allow me to carry a gun down the street and shoot any adult I wish...at least the adult might have a chance to defend himself!

[ASHIUSX]

a mass of cells are not defenseless. but an adult trying to defend a bullet that you just shot at him/her will have as good as a chance as an embryo the cannot withstand a coat hanger. whats the difference?

[markpianoman]

Well, maybe my gun shot would miss, or maybe the adult could run, or, or, or...but the defenseless baby has absolutely no chance of dodging the coat hanger...I rest my case!

[ASHIUSX]

the " baby" isn't defenseless. We just know what it is defenseless too. defenseless is a relative term. If you tied up the person and shot them in the head they would be as defenseless as the "baby". the fact that you don't mind killing one thing but do mind killing another is hypocritical.

[markpianoman]

You missed my WHOLE point...that being, both are wrong and neither is less murderous!

[ASHIUSX]

But you just said it would be LESS sad for you to go on a shooting/killing spree. indicating that one is in fact not as bad as the other. Now you say both are equally as wrong. Aside from that would you make it illegal for me to cut off my own arm if I wanted to do it?

[Dmar198]

"a mass of cells are not defenseless."

We aren't talking about a mass of cells. We are talking about 5+ week old embryos (before 5 weeks, you can't get a surgical abortion because the baby is too small). At that point, they are as much a 'mass of cells' as you and I are.

[ASHIUSX]

ok any thing you want to call it, a 5 plus week old embryo is not defenseless either. My point still stands against the argument to markpianoman. Would you want to make it illegal for me to cut off my own arm if I wanted to do it?

[Noahedwinbeach2]

at 3 weeks the baby has a heart beat..doesnt sound lifeless to me

[ASHIUSX]

It is lifeless without the mother. The Host of the parasite. It is attached to her and is sapping nutrients off of her system. Any other infection that did this you would not mind if they killed it. This is no different. The woman does not want this thing feeding off of her for 9 months only so it can burst out of her vagina possibly causeing her to die. To deny her the right to abort the pregnancy is inhumane.

[Noahedwinbeach2]

that is an ignorant statement...without the food we all die. We all are "parasites" of the world. Can you fee yourself as a baby? When you were born were you able to walk over to the kitchen and prepare a bottle for yourself. Are you Hitler reincarnated?

[ASHIUSX]

The earth is not sentient. But you do make a good point that we are destroying the world in the same way a baby destroys a woman. you cannot feed yourself as a baby, you cannot survive without a grown up. If that grown up does not want to feed you..you die. It happens in nature all the time. The woman does not want the parasite to eat away at her nutrients...so she has the right to kill it. It happens all the time but in other parts of the world it is infantacide.

[markpianoman]

Then the mother should have thought of all those risks before she had intercourse, and if the "bursting out of her vagina possibly causing her to die " was too much risk for her...then abstain from sex.

[ASHIUSX]

A 10-25 min mistake should not condemn you for life.

[weberly2]

but they do, it's always those little seemingly insignificant brief decisions that stay with us. such is life.

[ASHIUSX]

It is, and an abortion would stay with you also and you would learn a lesson without potentially ruining 3 lives.

[markpianoman]

What does a 10-25 min mistake have to do with a lifetime condemnation?

[ASHIUSX]

If a person does not wish to have a child, you are forcing them to at the very least go through 9 months of labor and potentially other health risks. then if they do not choose to give to adoption, they are forced to take care of the child. even if they do adopt, the child grows up wondering why the mother did not want him/her and the parent is forced to deal with a child that they choose not to try and raise.

[markpianoman]

First of all, it is NOT "nine months of labor." Labor typically does not last more than 24 hours. "If they do not choose to give to adoption" --- you've got to be kidding. So rather than "choosing to give to adoption" let's just kill the baby! That is totally messed up.

I CHOSE to have sex.

Now that I'm pregnant I'm going to CHOOSE to kill my baby rather than....

CHOOSING to give the baby for adoption.

Something is VERY wrong with this picture!

[ASHIUSX]

Sorry about my miswording but I think you knew what I ment.

The point is they Choose one way or the other. Whether it is to flush out an embryo, not have sex, or give up to adoption. They are all choices that in free socitey you should be allowed to make. And yes, after you choose to have sex, there are choices of what to do during your pregnancy. It's kind of a burden of living in a FREE society. Some choices you may not agree with, but you are free also.

[weberly2]

pregnancy is not a disease, it is a completely natural process. you might as well say that we have an unhealthy addiction to eating food. if the parasitic nature of unborn babies is your justification for killing them, does that extend to breastfeeding infants, who are essentially continuing the same activity of sapping nutrients? i used to feel faint afterwards, my daughter even snuck feedings while i slept. she demanded all my time, energy, and resources. would murder then be justified???

[ASHIUSX]

Yes it would. It happens in nature all the time. Not In certain places where food is abundant but infantacide and siblicide happens all the time. My point is you are willing to give up your nutrients for your child, whereas some may not be. You do not have a right to say they HAVE to do it. You expect your choices to be accepted but are unwilling to allow others to make their own choices about their life.

[weberly2]

yes it would be justified? interesting. no worries about one more mouth to feed, just kill em then? hmm. so infants should only be fed if we are willing. that would be making a choice about someone elses life, wouldn't it?

[ASHIUSX]

No, embryos should only be fed if someone is willing. Infants are fed if someone is willing and they aren't if noone is willing. It happens all the time. You know those starving kids commercials you see? I suppose you donate to every one of them yes? If you had a choice between feeding those kids and your own, which one would you choose? I think I know. How dare you justify the death of a child...murderer.

[weberly2]

i feed my children with the help of food stamps, ding dong, and if i didn't i would rightly go to jail. my will or my ability has little to do with it. i am a disabled woman who you would have 5 people decide if they are willing or not that i should live. while they're at it, maybe you could poll them on corporate bailouts as well. a good, civilized society makes these decisions as a whole, and supports the weak, because you never know when you could become weak. our rights are intrinsic.

[ASHIUSX]

No those people should have the right to refuse you help and not be a slave to you because you are a pregnant fat woman who keeps having babies. (you may not be this at all, it is an example.)

[weberly2]

i don't have babies anymore but i am fat, and screw you, i paid my taxes and served my country.

[ASHIUSX]

I told you...it was an example. you served your country, that means you enjoy that it is free. and a free society should be able to choose what it wants to do. this means upholding rights as a whole AND individual. it is your right to be fat, even though it will cost the country in the long run to take care of you, not to mention you will die earlier, leaving your kids to pay for the fact that you did not want to take care of yourself. it is a free country, it is your right. your choice.

[weberly2]

i didn't fight for people's right to choose who lives and dies, i can tell you that. we do have a right to elect our leaders, protest unfair laws, make changes. i'm fat because i sit on my ass. i don't get how it costs the country in the long run more to take care of me if i'm going to die so young. i weigh around 165 with pretty good health. we get like $200 in food stamps plus limited health care, take meds but rarely go to the Dr. this saves you having to see me on the street corner.

[weberly2]

BTW, i worked in a hospital, i wasn't injured on active duty or anything so feel free to pick on me, you won't hurt my feelings.

[ASHIUSX]

I don't care about your personal life, it is irrelevant to the conversation.

[weberly2]

i know, you want to sanitize people into statistics.

[ASHIUSX]

not at all. I just do not want to be forced to take care of someone I don't want to take care of. I don't think that is fair. and I do not want someone to be forced to take care of me.

[ASHIUSX]

You fought for a country that will force people to do things they do not want to do? I don't care about your personal life. But statistically People who are fat drain the systems resources because they have made themselves disabled.

[weberly2]

i didn't make myself disabled. people are flesh and blood, imperfect, we all break down at some point, and in real life we all depend on others at various times to some degree. no man is an island. we start out helpless, and if we live long enough we end up helpless. in your utopian system, you would have the 20 year old working at Mc Donalds who knows nothing about life make life or death decisions about senior citizens who have already paid their dues. what about schools? voluntary also?

[ASHIUSX]

I never said you made yourself disabled. I said statistically people who are fat have allowed themselves to be this way. And that is there right to live in a free country to do so. Just like it is a persons right to choose to abort. Or choose to suck the off the system becasuse eventually they would have too. but in an equal society that is fair. Correct?

[weberly2]

huh? cellulite isn't a disability btw. you watch too much tv. helping individuals benefits society at large. this isn't Sparta, you know.

[weberly2]

if you can so easily say who has a right to eat, live or die, kill their unborn child, and who should be held responsible for the disabled, you should also be able to answer the question about the right to an education, the mandate to attend school, and who should be required to pay for it.

[ASHIUSX]

There is public education because it helps society, you don't have to do it. but it is alloted into taxes, even people who do not have children have to pay it. It's good for the system. Every one has the right to eat, live or die, kill their unborn child or choose to get or not get an education. If we only made those with children pay then many would go uneducated, it would result in a poverty class and a rich class. We dont want that do we? Freedom to choose opertunity or not.choice for all

[weberly2]

actually we are forced to get an education. and yes, it benefits society as a whole, i'm glad you recognize that. some of our wealth is redistributed by the gov't who decides how it will most benefit the entire country. we don't always get to choose what is best just for ourself. and i would say life is an inalienable right. but you are correct, we would degenerate into a small class of intellectuals surrounded by the illiterate masses.

[ASHIUSX]

you can drop out of school any time. so you are not forced. We elect governement so we do choose how that money is spent on a some level. we do get to choose what is best for ourselves, thats why its a free country. but I shouldn't be forced to take care of you, and you shouldn't be forced to take care of me. And a person shouldn't be forced to have a child if it isnt what they want. only the person who is having the child has the right to choose. Rights and choice...freedom.

[weberly2]

you cannot just drop out of school anytime and we really don't have control over the budget. our freedom is not unlimited. you can be drafted into war for instance, forced to protect me. even though my body produces a child, i am now subject to a set of laws designed to protect the child. i am legally and financially liable. you think the rights of the mother outweigh those of the baby and i disagree, except in the rare event that a choice would have to be made between their survival.

[ASHIUSX]

And I think their survival IS the issue. Aside from that, you can not go to school, what are they going to do? Throw the kid in jail? I don't have to be drafted...I can move, or refuse to fight, then I get put in jail...wow theres freedom for you. You are liable because you had the child. But before that no one should make you do it. That is only the mothers choice to make. It isn't a baby before 10 weeks its an organism that is sapping nutrients to grow from the host.

[ASHIUSX]

You are saying a weak persons rights mean more than a strong persons. Why should the strong people be penalized for someone who cannot live on their own. That strong person has struggled and strived to become a success, they should not have to take care of someone they do not wish to. Not to mention the care provided would not be very good considering the persons attitude about it. same with a child. You should not force someone have a child they do not want.

[weberly2]

kids and even parents are threatened with jail for truancy, not that i'm crazy about that or drafting for that matter. but individual freedom isn't always placed above the needs of the community, and i don't consider becoming a fugitive a real choice, if that's what you mean. i don't consider a weaker person to have greater rights or vice versa, we just have different circumstances. fortunately i don't have to rely on you to give my care, as for our kids many aren't planned, attitudes change.

[ASHIUSX]

Your attitude might change...but I am not willing to take the risk for the good of the child. But maybe you are right...hopefully people will someday be forced to do things for the good of the community regardless of their personal feelings bout things...Maybe it would be better if we were all forced to be muslim.

[weberly2]

freedom of religion is what the country was founded on. but saying you're not willing to risk the parent not caring for the child so lets kill it doesn't make sense either, plus you're limiting the woman's decision to a 10 week time period and she may have only just discovered the pregnancy. i was initially horrified by each one of my pregnancies and in each case changed my mind over time. my CO literally ordered me to give her my first baby, claiming it was unfair that she couldn't have one.

[weberly2]

btw i refused (a direct order), and later ran into her with the baby. she said i did the right thing (was it all a test?) but looked sad, the whole experience was just creepy. my point is i had a baby under the very worst conditions and managed somehow, she had said show me on paper how you're going to do this, and i agreed i couldn't but that like everyone else i would figure it out.

[ASHIUSX]

I don't care about your personal life, You are appling it to the conversation and other peoples lives...it is very egocentric.

[weberly2]

it's an example.

[ASHIUSX]

After 10 weeks the fetus can feel pain. If you do not find out before 10 weeks then you have to have the child to avoid causing pain. You are claiming to know what is good for other people you have never met and people that haven't been born yet.  Doesn't that seem a little silly?

[weberly2]

i agree with you there, but the majority of prochoicers won't accept that. sometimes abortionists administer pain medication to the fetus. i would just say there is another side to the story, that's all. beyond the ethical aspect abortion just isn't the quick fix people think it is. i think if more light was shed on the abortion industry we might at least see some improvements. the term back alley abortions is used to talk about the past, a nightmare, but what we have now is a horror show.

[ASHIUSX]

The implications about abortions' aftereffects are beyond the issue. While I agree It should be examined and done the most humane way possible, it should be educated about side effects, physical and emotional, and all options should be weighed before the choice to abort is made. But the choice should exsist. It is not fair to not allow people to choose.

[weberly2]

i agree it's not the central issue, for me it's simply that rights are important but life itself outweighs other concerns, and i bring it up because i think this is all about looking toward the future. most girls have a very hard time bringing themselves to do this, many do think of it as killing their baby, but they feel it will be better for them in the long run. i wish they had more of a real choice. anyway i've been yammering on and on, i'll shut up now.

:)

[ASHIUSX]

Some people who are overweight are classified as disabled. I don't think they are either, but they are classified as such. So technically in some cases cellulite is a disability.

[SabrinaSilverstien]

The police where really nice, they sounded like they really didn't wan't to arrest them.

[markpianoman]

You guys are doing great work. How the masses can just ignore this hugely barbaric practice I will never understand. I loved Gianna's speach to the Aussies! Like a sermon and straight from the heart!

[ASHIUSX]

it's not ugly or barbaric. It is a shame but it is peoples rights to do as they please with themselves.

[markpianoman]

It may well be condoned by society to kill the unborn, but it doesn't change the fact that it is murder...it's not just a right to do as you please with yourself. When you have your unborn child aborted, you murder that child...so you are DOING to someone else....a helpless defenseless child. Shame on you and everyone else who condones this barbaric practice!

[Chill197]

The world is over populated.

[Dmar198]

On the contrary: the developed countries -- where abortions happen -- are not making enough children to meet replacement levels. (Every couple needs to have 2 children to replace themselves.) Go to wikipedia and look up "Sub-replacement fertility" for more info.

[Chill197]

I hope you are not asuming I'm pro abortion I'm just pro choice I'm not for it or against I think it's up to the person having the babby. The reason I'm not pro life is the kind of pressure pro life but people under. Some one came to me who was pregnet and did not know what to do I would just say your choice I doubt very much that a fertilsed egg is aware but it's not rely hummun. Are you going to say wearing condoms is bad

[Dmar198]

@Chill197 Great that you aren't pro-abortion. It's a shame that you want to keep it as a choice though. Since it is murder, it is a choice that should not be permitted. You can't choose to murder anyone ELSE in this country...just the unborn. Can't you see how terrible that is?

A fertilized HUMAN egg is human. What else would it be? A frog egg? No, it's definitely human: complete human DNA, living and starting to grow. So, we can't kill them.

(And condoms are bad, but for a different reason.)

[Chill197]

@Dmar198

Condoms are bad explain why?

The Fertilized egg as the potential to become nothing more then a parasite then become a human. No I cant see how terrible it is to abort a fetus that wouldn't survive outside the womb.

But please tell me why condoms are bad.

[ASHIUSX]

People would do that anyway at risk to themselves.

[rUTokKIN2ME]

I'm proud of you guys for taking a stand. Keep the info coming. I'm so used to seeing this type of activity only to accomplish selfish objectives. It's nice to see them put to use on behalf of a group that cannot defend itself. Power to the people!

[Dmar198]

You are right. The thing is, this wasn't private property: the college is a public institution, and their property goes under a public trust fund.

The District Attorney has thrown out the charges because of this.

[markpianoman]

Whatever came out of this...did y'all have to go to jail?

[Dmar198]

Three of our six team members went to jail. After 12 hours, they were released, and the DA has dropped the charges.

We'll probably be filing a civil lawsuit against them for their uncalled for behavior.