Just Imagine

[demmmmm1]

I watched every minute of the health reform debate. Everything available. I was never more disgusted in my life. The behavior of the Republicans since Obama took office has been a disgrace. Lie upon lie upon lie.

Then they vote for the Ryan Plan, which will turn Medicare into a voucher program putting senior citizens at the mercy of the greedy for-profit health insurance industry, and costing seniors thousands more every year.

VOTE DEMOCRAT 2012

[Dashlanders]

ad absurdum, ad nasuem, ad infinitum.

jamming your fingers in your ears and going 'nah nah nah nah nah' is not political discourse and you should be ashamed of yourself. I would caution any NOT in favor of UHCS where they get their facts.

[goodolddays12]

health care will destroy the economy more. cost more lives. And will make doctors pay checks worse than most jobs. Health care is not the way to go.

[MsAnneThrope59]

This is common argument. Could you tell me exactly how (if we take all the money paid to insurance companies and actually give it to doctors and hospitals) there will be an increase in mortality? Do you believe doctors will be paid $40,000 a year all of a sudden is we have universal healthcare? Explain yourself so you don't just sound like a mindless puppet for Fox News.

[goodolddays12]

canada did it there economy sucks. western Europe did it now they have 50% more taxes. stop being a liberal puppet.

[NickerSkids]

50% more taxes ,what does that mean?

I am a brit ,the NHS ,is not perfect but it works well .

The vast majority of Brits agree it's the best system for us.

Nothing to be scared of.

[Xearafe]

I don't understand why people are so opposed to health care reform. France managed it. lol It works. Its like watching your neighbor mow his lawn with a mower while you pay a guy in a suit $50/hour to cut your grass with scissors. It just doesn't make sense the amount we give to these blood sucking corporations. Why don't people SEE this? Keep paying the insurance companies and just hope for the best!

[BennyQuixote]

Imagine a world where patients diagnosed with brain tumors have to wait 18 months to see a specialist and die before they can get help.

But we don't have to imagine that. It's called Canada. Please move there if you want other people's money for your health bills.

[Stranahan]

You're aware of the wait time in the US for a brain tumor if you aren't insured, right?

[BennyQuixote]

The obvious response to this would be to get insured. The real question is what are the causes of the high cost of health insurance.

Of course, this can't be answered in a 500 character comment post anymore than it can be in a 47 second video, but you'd have to have some pretty skewed views to think the causes of it are "advertisements and CEO pay," which make up pennies to the millions of the industry.

Or you can just type a witty sentence and hope you're right.

[Stranahan]

What country do YOU live in?

See - in America, if you discovered you had a brain tumor you COULDN'T get insured because you have a 'pre-existing' condition.

OR if you already had a pre-existing condition - like diabetes or anything - you couldn't get insured.

And if you WERE insured and you GOT a brain tumor, the insurance would go over your policy with a fine tooth comb looking for 'errors' so they could cancel you.

I explained in 500 character, too. But you CAN'T exaplain your idiocy.

[BennyQuixote]

I live in America. The next obvious answer would be to get insurance while one is healthy. Also, there is no guarantee that socialized health care would eliminate preexisting condition exclusions.

In fact, eliminating preexisting condition clauses would allow people to never pay for insurance until it is needed and then to simply cancel their accounts after treatment. This would result in even more unaffordable premiums than we have now.

This is a more complicated issue than you seem to think.

[MsAnneThrope59]

Almost as complicated as your second paragraph...

I know someone who almost died due to refusal by his insurance co. to pay for his drugs. His doctor met personally w/ the insurance co. doc and practically begged them to approve -- answer was still no. This friend is employed by the Fed Govt.

[MsAnneThrope59]

US has some of the worst rates of infant mortaltiy, maternal death, premature death, chronic illness, obesity, etc. in the industrialized world. People die and become bankrupt due to health problems -- even folks with insurance. How much worse could a single payer system be? Do you understand that if we had universal coverage your money would go into the US healthcare system and NOT to a profit making company.

[MsAnneThrope59]

When you get sick do you go to the offices of your health insurance co? NO!?! But that's who you pay for healthcare! This is the only part of our economy where we pay all our money to a middleman who simply messes up the whole system and doesn't allow you to purchase the goods and services that you need -- only an idiot would consider this the "free market."

[psalm69er]

The number of Americans that think public healthcare is a bad idea is astounding. Here in Australia no politician dares try and get rid of our public system - it is extremely popular. We are smart enought to realise that no one knows when they might get sick or injured and we are all prepared to have our taxes used by the goverment to provide healthcare to anyone regardless of social standing.

[BennyQuixote]

I don't care how popular an idea is: it doesn't make it a good one.

The US had a truly private health care system before the 1970s, and it was affordable. Since the government began regulating, premiums have consistently increased.

Even if public health care is a good thing, which, of course, it isn't, the US simply doesn't have the money to practically afford it right now. The national debt is currently almost irreversible. Passing a $1.5-2 trillion bill will help crash the dollar.

[psalm69er]

I didn't say the idea of public healthcare is popular in Australia I am talking about the PRACTICAL REALISATION of it. Since 1975 we have had our current system in place. If there was something inherently wrong with the public healthcare system then people would have voted it away by now. But they haven't because it WORKS. As for America's debt here is a tip... don't elect total retards that start expensive wars for no good reason and then you won't be such a broke basket case of a nation.

[BennyQuixote]

1. We elected him once, in 2004.

2. All nations are susceptible to fear mongering, so is yours.

3. Obama spent nearly three times as much money in four months than Bush spent in four years.

4. Obama has expanded both expensive wars, not ended them.

5. Canadians cross the border into the US to get health care because they can't get it in their country.

6. If you are so focused on practicality as you say you are, you wouldn't suggest changing the past. We can't afford public health care. Period.

[pig5689]

1. whoare you talking about?

2. true, & greedy insurance execs are pros at this

3. Bullshit.

4. Thanks to Bush.

5. A lie.

6. With the greedy insurance execs pissing 1.4-1.6 million a day fighting health care reform we cannot aford to go without public health care. The greed of these execs has rotted & destroyed the life savings & incomes of millions of innocent hard-working families. Now it's time they paid the piper & have their assets seized & liquidated & be tossed in the sewage system.

[BennyQuixote]

National debt:

9/30/04: $7.38 trillion

9/30/08: $10 trillion

Difference: $2.65 trillion

9/30/08: $10 trillion

8/5/09: $11.7 trillion

Difference: $1.63 trillion

These figures do NOT include the bailout money, which has not yet been factored into the national debt. The bailout money is more than $3 trillion.

Still think that's bullshit?

[Mosley2]

so you want me to imagine Sweden? Done :)

[sunnyallthetime]

I don't suppose all this money health insurance companies are spending to fight the public option comes from the insurance premiums we pay?

[SolMaster]

Well, it's coming from somewhere, and that's their main source of income... so...

[rjanis123]

Lee,

Once again brother, very good points you make.

but, are there any answers? anything we the normal, small, seemingly powerless and impotent can do against these leeches?

these money grubbing, self serving "special interest" monsters?

and I hope you don't mind if I embed this into a conversation thread I"m having on my forum?

Peace :):)

Ron

[sisforshayla]

that's what i first thought of when i found out those numbers.