My ultimate favourite Doctor-speaking-alien-language moment was when it was David Tennant speaking Martian.
I actually like River. I think she's a very interesting character and I love how she's turned out but I agree that we were sort of told to like her but luckily for me, I obliged! :D
I guess the main reason why I hated River was because, to me, she was taking Rose's place and it felt wrong that the doctor was falling in love with someone who's not Rose. But I love River now. She's totally kickass
well, I feel like the reasons she didn't want to tell him are simple.
She knew this was bad before she told him, so im guessing the Doctor told her that this was surprising.
She was made to kill him. its like Darth Vader telling Luke that he was his father. its like "oh damn, shes gonna try to kill me too."
You KNOW she's gonna try to kill him, and the spacesuit was made for her, so its highly probable that she kills him. Also she knows he's just lost amys baby, so she knows shes in pain.
that was the way it happend to river Song and she didn't want a paradoxs but the qustion i want to no is River song had somthing to do with her chiled hood as Melody Pond so why does she want the Doctor not to no he was invited to his death
Ro, Kay, & all Whovians: Are any of you as annoyed as I am that River appears to be able to escape her captors and/or prison and waltz in & out of prison whenever she feels like it; esp. when she's in prison 4 MURDER!? If it's that easy 4 her 2 escape, then why is she locked up in the first place? And I don't think she would ever VOLUNTARILY come back, unless she realizes it's where she belongs 4 what she's done, so she returns 2 ease her own conscience. Sorry 2b posting so much. A lot to say...
All of the funny and sad moments hit their marks. It was amusing when Rory wanted Amy & The Doctor to stop hugging & he told them. This ep. definitely had plenty of rollercoaster emotional moments where viewers were laughing or smiling in one moment, & crying the next. Those were great moments. I also like how,over time,Rory went from fraidy cat to someone who WOULD confront the Daleks alone. Harkens back 2 Mickey Smith's transformation. But both defended their women, whatev the cost. KBO all !
Rory's lone confrontation of the Cybermen just reenforces a comment I left at your review of TRF/TAP in regards to Rory defending Amy. The Doctor facing off against whole armies and walking away alive is wearing thin with me(spec. this ep. and TPO/TBB. He's brave,yes. But he CAN be killed, and by all rights should be when it comes to one man against (plural) ARMIES. Howev-good points-the Doc's interaction w/the baby was sweet, and his reaction to the reveal was PRICELESS! Has 2b continued...
I feel like it was pretty obvious that River Song is Amy's daughter when the soldier lady came to Amy with the sewed piece with the baby's name in a different language because River Song is just another way of wording Melody Pond. Melody (a Song) and Pond (another type of water mass like River). This episode is easily one of my favorites!
The Baby talk was hilarious....and thats my biggest question too...How Time Lordy is River actually? Im hoping that this means a new start for the Time Lord race because then The Doctor will have a form of redemption for Gallifrey and the Time War Lock! I dont want to wait it should be an all year round show.... I just dont understand how their gonna work the baby into their adventures. I really hope that this doesnt mean Rory/Amy are done as companions :^(
@wvboarder2005 Surely a Timelord has to have Symbiotic Nucleai, two hearts and a silly hat? She probably has a silly hat but I doubt lumpy old river had the other stuff just from travelling around inside the Tardis inside her mum. On the Fenric DVD they mentioned the theory that the Doctor was going to take his then companion Ace back to his home world to revitalise his race-then it got cancelled...
i think river song killed the doctor, and this was shortly before the silence in the library episode, therefore river didn't know she had done it yet. but clearly there was a reason if she did kill him, a reason in which the doctor had to agree to be killed and stuff... after watching time of the angels it seemed like she had hurt him or betrayed him some how.... just by the way the bishop was talking to her.
The Doctor goes around saving planets and even the universe and never asks for anything in return. I think that has even been said in a episode. He is also clever enough to do a lot of damage without help. So given that he's asking for repayment and feels the need to get help, it really shoudl be treated as a big deal. It's not something that just happens.
I thought 11 was more free of the baggage 9 and 10 had about killing so many ppl but it seems not.
Well river can fly the TARDIS and according to the colin baker episode the two doctors, (at least I think that is the one) the doctor says that only him/ a time lord can pilot the TARDIS because of the symbiotic link.
@Awelbel The Rassilon Imprintur (totally hosed the spelling there). When the Doctor originally got the TARDIS he had very little idea what a TARDIS /really/ was. Over time he has learnt a lot and I don't think he'd say anything so silly any more. Simply put, the TARDIS can be flown by whoever the TARDIS wants.
I have a feeling Alex Kingston will not actually be River's only regeneration. By that I mean, I think if they want to recast River Song at some point perhaps because Kingston is starting to look a decent amount older than she did in her first appearance or just for plot reasons, they could potentially recast her and say that River Song as played by Kingston, is only *SPOILERS* her final regeneration as we saw in Silence in the LIbrary, as opposed to her only one since regenerating in EP2
One thing that I'm really curious about is the relationship between Amy, Rory, and River. It must be really weird for Amy and Rory to find out that their baby is a fully-grown woman who they've been traveling with. I wonder if they get the baby back and if they raise River or if River grows up elsewhere because I feel like that could really change their relationship.
also, there was the tiniest moment that I loved, when the Rory says to the Sontaran "You're a warrior" and the Sontaran says "I'm a nurse". The Warrior became a nurse and Rory (the nurse) became a warrior... tiny, but I thought it was great...
River's face when she saw Rory was when I knew. I thought that was such a brilliant bit of acting from Alex Kingston! Oddly enough, I didn't clue in to the "Melody Pond, River Song" thing (which is incredibly obvious after you notice it) until after that moment.
I kinda knew River had to be their daughter. a lot of hints where dropped this series. i found it interesting that is was Amy POND and RIVER Song, water names. Then for, for me at least, the thing about the only water in the forest being the river and then seeing that Amy named the baby Melody, it clicked in my head and i freaked out. when the ending confirmed my theory, i lost my shit! =D But I loved the episode and i hope all the question i have left are answered and hopefully well.
@portagee032 That was the point River made when the TARDIS translated the leaf-thingy at the end - They don't have a word for 'Pond', as the only water is the running 'rivers' - Aha!
there was one part that kinda got to me...I thought the headless monks couldn't be persuaded except apparently they can just by saying you arent a fool...which on its own seems like kind of a foolish thing to do but that's just me being nitpicky I reckon it was great all in all
(continuing from my last post ) Also I thought it was a bit odd that the Doctor did say that he had a daughter because as we all know from the david tenant days HE DOES. Why was it even that big of a deal to mention it. He could have just said "a long time ago, yes" or something like that. I just kinda thought it was odd.
@filibusterfirework74 The 1st Doctor (William Hartnell) had a grand-daughter called Susan. The 9th Doctor (Ecclestone) killed all the time lords, perhaps including some of his own family. In 6.03 The Doctor's Wife, the 11th says "I killed them all". I thought this is what was meant, ignoring Jenny from The Doctor's Daughter. It would delight some fans and infuriate others if Jenny was Susan's mother. (lol).
@WooWhoWho Okay so I knew about both Susan and Jenny but I never made that connection, that is such an awesome idea. But yeah I just thought it is kinda strange that he doesn't mention it.
First off I would just like to mention just how freaking amazing Rory was in this episode. He was bad ass and at the same time very love-able. I had this theory for a very long time that some how the baby is the doctors daughter (not Rory's). I dont know though I guess I want that to be true again because even though River was better in this episode I still largely disslike her. Plus it bothers me that she doesnt even look like she could have been Amy and Rory or Amy and the Dr.'s daughter...
I felt kinda... lost watching it. Not to say it wasn't fantastic, brilliant, cool, etc. but it was so BIG. It had so much scale as a piece, so far from anything that Doctor Who has done before. I felt that the whole collecting debts thing was nice, but went on for far too long, I wanted to see the Doctor! The reveal of River Song wasn't suprising to me, but like you said, it'll be interesting to see what comes from it, where the Doctor went in the TARDIS.
On your question of what River Song is I have a theory:
She is a contained Meta Crisis-based Human-Time Lord who survived the process because of how she was conceived as opposed to the Doctor/Donna who wasn't created to be a human conduit of Time Lord energy following "Journey's End". Moreover, because she is a human conduit she has a limited amount of regenerations as opposed to a true Time Lord, like the Doctor, which explains her death at the end of "Forest of the Dead".
@LucLightWolf121 well her death is also explained in the actual episode "Forest of the Dead", because it's established that even the doctor wouldn't have time to regenerate, the death would be too fast. That is why River knocks out the doctor and attaches herself to the machine in his place, because she knows he doesn't have a chance."
Something we've been forgetting, with all the River Song excitement. Every series of the new Doctor Who we've gotten at least one classic enemy, if not two. The Daleks, The Cybermen, The Macra and the Master, The Sontarrans, The Silurians. We haven't had our classic baddie yet. So the only two options are, The producers forgot or are skipping this series, or we're in for our past villain when the series returns in autumn, possibly for the series finale.
I expected River to turn out to be Amy's baby as soon as Amy mentioned she was preggers, and I'd kind of speculated that might be it for quite a few episodes before that. The name Melody as seen on the incubator cinched it for me, but it was nice to have that reveal at the end. Though all she really had to do was let the words translate. The declaration of "I'm your daughter, I'm Melody" at the end felt like it was just grinding it in and dumbing it down for those who STILL didn't get it.
i think the doctor is well learned in the field of taking care of babys therefore he can tell when a baby is laughing at something (say a bow tie) crying due to hunger or tiredness.
Bah the headless munks were scary with their twisted off neck/heads. Rory was so good looking when he was being bad ass as a Roman! I thought the episode was well done but I was not surprised at all to find that River Song is Amy and Rory's daughter. It was sad that the baby was a flesh though, poor Amy :(
I'm thinking that the reason why Dr Song was so hesitant to tell the Doctor was a bit like her being hesitant to tell the Doctor that he's going to die - it could possibly give him the idea that it'll all work out the way it'll work out? And she didn't want to tell him because she loved him and blahdeblahdeblah, and didn't want to ruin that?
Yeah? No? Oooookay then. CANNOT WAIT FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON!
@Choggspaced But I liked that about Ten! The Master was hell bent on taking over the Earth but when he was about to die The Doctor still tried to help him and heal him because of the simple fact that he was one of his own, he wanted to look after him and even begged him to regenerate and I don't think Steven would have him do that. I just don't like it, does he really need to have a "darkest hour"? Come season 7 The Doctor will be himself again and his "darkest hour" will be irrelevant.
I feel like we've only been given a part of who River is. They still never explained what her connection/history with the Doctor was. (They sure kissed more intensely than anyone normally would kiss their parent's friend...) Also if Amy was flesh for so long does that mean that the real Amy won't remember what happened in America? What repercussions will that have?
@Choggspaced The only thing The Silence did was watch over history and make stuff happen, is it really that much of a crime? To be fair Ten did do some "not-very-Doctorish-things" but he always showed humility and Eleven doesn't have that, he showed zero remorse for killing The Silence and The Cybermen.
One question if someone can help me with this, the girl who sewed together the prayer leaf, wasn't she from galifrey and if so why didn't she regenerate when she died???
@happyshoppper56 No. She said she was from the Gamma Forest, which is unlikely to be on Gallifrey considering how difficult it has become to leave Gallifrey. It was also significant to the plot that the language she wrote in was not Gallifreyan.
Apparently there actually is a baby language that's universal in all babies, and it's like when they cry they make different sounds automatically for if they're hungry, tired etc..
We already know River has the capacity to regenerate - go re-watch the earlier episodes with the girl in the spacesuit ;) So, I guess she's more wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey than we know so far...Hmm...
I was relieved that the recent trend of the Dcotor being willing to kill, getting overwhelmed by his own anger, etc. was shown to be really purposeful/intentional by this episode. e.g. taking out all those cybermen was clearly not normal behavior. Hopefully this trend will be "resolved "by the end of the season.
Also: the beginning, when Amy was describing Rory to Melody, and of course we all think it's the Doctor at first—They've played that idea a few times now, but I still love it.
I was kinda disappointed with the River/Melody switch, because it was a theory I'd seen EVERYWHERE and it felt kinda like cheating, but the more I think about it, the more perfect it is.
I especially liked how little Melody didn't like the TARDIS noise.
@quellenight She couldn't have regenerated in FotD, it was too powerful. The reason she pulled the Doctor out and plugged herself in was because she knew even he wouldn't survive it.
I didn't really like this episode. In fact I haven't really liked where the Doctor Who series has been going. I am not old or nostalgic. I'm 18. The thing I don't like is that the Doctor shouldn't kill things. That isn't the way his ethos works. Think back to Tom Baker and that lot. Death was something they set out to stop and the Doctor has already commited genecide twice this seaon. The Silence and the Cybermen this episode. He kills loads of them. It just felt wrong to me
@ScrapperTBP I agree! When he willingly let River shoot the Silence I was really upset because it was against everything he stands for, but when he killed the Cybermen I was just shocked and I just couldn't comprehend it. I hope Steven can draw that line again when the series comes back in September. RTD spent all that time re-establishing those boundaries and then Moffat comes along and has The Doctor kill everything in sight lol.
I really liked this episode. The Melody Pond/River Song name switch was really clever - made me realise how much they plan these sorts of things in advance!! And the fact that the Doctor speaks Baby is awesome :)
jeez i think im the only one in the world who doesn't mind river....in fact i really like her! yes, i get sometimes she is ''overdone'' (like shooting the doctors hat off etc), but i really do like her.
This episode...ah, I loved it! Thinking about it, and all the repercussions makes my brain hurt, but in terms of television...either I was cheering, grinning broadly, punching the air, or laughing...it was just a good hour of screen watching. Not sure if I get it, but it was probably the best fun I've had all season... :-)
The first episode that River Song (or Melody Pond) appeared in was in the fourth series. She told the Tenth Doctor his name, and he said there is only one reason he'd ever tell somebody what it was. I'm curious to know both what his real name was and what the reason for telling is.
It was (in my opinion) the best episode since End of Time part 2. It was very predictable. I kind of figured out who River Song was at the start of series 5 and her Time Lord connection was made obvious in series 4. Overall, a good episode but what I want know is who tried to blow up the Tardis? Since Day of the Moon there has been no connection to that at all.
I don't think I"m the only one hoping to see a lot more of the Victorian Silurian and her girlfriend...Adored that Amy told her baby about the man who would rescue her, The Last Centurion...methinks the Doctor is headed for the Gamma Forest (wherever that is). Eventually.
i feel as though they`re getting to concentrate to much into the big story arc`s, it`s limiting alot of stand alone episodes. the story probably is going to go River is destined to kill the doctor, so he lets her so he can do something clever on his terms. what really creeps me out is it made the doctor look a bit pedo at the end seeing a baby that will grow into someone he will(?). have a relationship with.
best scene :Rory the last centurion threatening a group of heavely armed cybermen.
someon pointed out to me that river has no reaction to amy and rory really before this ep, and as her parents surely she they would be important to her?? and would they not have told river of the doctor, and so wouldn't she have known about him before the story that she tells rory in the first story of the season about 'how would you feel if a person turned up and knew everything about you'. Maybe the doctor does something horrific to get her back and that is his greatest fall.......
Terrific episode! Well, since we know River Song is part time lady, and that we saw the child start to regenerate at the end of "Day of the Moon," it is safe to say the she is a Time Lady in the strictest sense. Also, since she is part Time Lady, I have a feeling that River and the Doctor will be getting married. This is gonna get pretty interesting.
Never mind the whole baby saga, my big question is: how did the headless monks chant their 'battle prayer' without mouths? Other than that small niggle, a great episode.
I love your reaction! Thats exactly how I felt too. It was such an elegant, beautifully told story. The second half of the episode just blew me away. I think the Doctor is going to find RIver now. River will meet him for the first time. The Doctor in the future is still dead and that needs to be explained. And the whole space suit mystery. As for questions about River, we know she can regenerate and she was put in storm cage for some reason. I really can't wait to see more of her story!
I'm assuming River looks so different from Amy and Rory is because of the whole regeneration thing. If it was River/Melody regenerating in the ally we know she's done it before. Sadly we do know that it is her last regeneration since we saw her die in Silence in the Library.
@AnyaReine It isn't her last regeneration, regeneration doesn't make a Timelord/lady immortal, as we saw in episode 1 of season 6, even The Doctor would've died if he took River's place in Silence in the Library.
The doctor is far more tuned in, that's why he can "speak baby".
She's sad for him to find out partly because of the other events of that area, partly because she is still under the mistaken belief that their timelines are completely opposed directions, but I think there is still more to be revealed there.
@KaitharVideo Oh yeah, you just made me realize that if River & the Doctor actually ARE moving in opposite directions, then it makes sense that she'd be sad because from her perspective, every time she sees him again he's not going to know who she is, and neither are her parents. So it's kind of like her first step in losing all of them, maybe
@belleglass Of course her time line isn't exactly in reverse, she just thinks it is cause they're both so early on. There is actually a good clue in this video... the doctor took her ice skating, which he hasn't done yet.
But from her perspective at the present point in her timeline, you are correct.
@KaitharVideo Ah, yeah. I'm still not exactly clear on her/11's timeline but I think that's got to be at least partially intentional, so it'll probably be cleared up at some point (I hope). But yeah, at least from River's point of view, since she believes them to be moving in opposite directions blah blah blah, I gotcha. :)
I think River will kill Rory. She did kill "a good man, a hero to many" - I think we've watched Rory become this. Plus her ambiguous reaction when Rory steps forward out of the darkness at the beginning of this episode and introduces himself...
I loved this episode. Maybe I'm just a brainwashed Moffat lover but I haven't disliked a single thing that man has done. I didn't like River in the Library episodes but then she instantly grew on me. I loved A Good Man Goes to War. Not much really happened, but it was very....epic.
My question is if (if!) the baby is the spacesuit girl and also River, then why would she end up in jail a long time/way away for the murder of the Doctor on modern day Earth? Fishy.
Also I enjoyed the Team TARDIS.2; that Sontaran was so Welsh Valleys (which made me love him all the more) and Madam Siliurian and her maid? The coolest. I felt awful for poor Lorna Bucket, though - she was yet another sacrificial lamb for the Doctor, which has been happening disconcertingly frequently of late.
@AmeliaO1997 ah, I hadn't thought of that! But it looked quite old, I assumed it was the Doctor's name.. and wouldn't he have written it in English so Amy/Rory could read it, or at least told them what it said... but that is actually the best theory I've heard :)
Also, anyone confused by how River has such curly hair...and neither Amy nor Rory even has wavy hair. And I wish Amy's daughter had beautiful red hair just like her. God, I'm just too attached to this show and these characters.
My brother only started watching Doctor Who a few weeks ago. One of the first episodes he watches was with River Song (the Weeping Angels) and right after that episode he called exactly who River killed to get in jail. And the whole Melody Pond-River Song thing was too obvious. As soon as I heard the baby's name I knew what "The only water in the forest in the river" meant...Still a great episode, though. (Still not a fan of River, though. I really wish I could be, but I'm not.)
@benjiappleton I assumed it was misdirection on the viewer's part; she was indicating the prayer leaf in the cot the whole time, only they made it appear to be the writing on the cot.
I found it absolutely heartbreaking that Amy and Rory essentially lost their baby, especially when the Flesh baby "melted", as it were. It just makes me so angry that they can't get baby Melody back and bring her up and be proper parents, as that would mean the whole River thing then couldn't have happened. Unless it just meant it happened differently. Damn, I'm confusing myself.
The only part of the episdoe that really annoyed me was the fact that they very obviously reveal River's identity to the Doctor and then Amy STILL has to ask River who she is. I was upset because they were makng Amy look really stupid at that point. Does anyone else agree?
@MrMinVik well, when they kissed at the end of the two parter (her last time, his first) she seemed very sad it was her last time, implying they'd done it loads of times before
Maybe it's because I constantly compare River and The Doctor to Henry and Claire from the Time Traveller's Wife, but I think she didn't tell him because she already hadn't; she knows how the future is meant to be so she follows that story.
I would have liked to see them give a little more exposition for the Doctor's Army. Because you always see him give the bad guys a chance, and now we're seeing what happens when they actually take the chance and surrender instead of going on to be defeated. I loved the Colonel Runaway bit. Including the bit with him saying "Look I'm angry, that's new." I think he literally hasn't been this angry yet in this regeneration. Other than that, we got to see the Doctor's cot. Timebaby, with a timehead.
I have to say Matt Smith has really grown on me. as well as Karen and Arthur. It will be sad if all the rumors of them leaving end up true. With that being said I have truly enjoyed this series 100%! So far and, I'd go as far as to say it's up there with 9's run and the first series of the 10th Doctor's run. Never liked Martha much and Donna was ok. I still enjoyed those series. And I wish people would stop knocking on Matt and Alex. It's annoying!!! Cannot wait till this Fall :)
I figured this out a while ago, and yet I still hoped it wouldn't be true.
I still think the "best man she ever knew" is Rory.
and I still hope that River really isnt Melody...(hey I can dream)
I'm not ready to say goodbye to Karen Gillan yet. I want her back for s7. I know it wont happen but. I want more Doctor and Amy adventures. 3's a crowd!
I figured out the who River Song was the second I saw "Melody Pond" on the baby's hospital (?) cot... but I didn't start to realize all the connections until I watched that. Remember that River Song "killed the best man [she] ever knew". The little girl killed the Doctor. And regenerated. River Song was the little girl. It makes sense now.
My theory is that the doctor is going to where we saw the younger girl regenerate and therefore spend time with RiverSong that way rather than in her older more mature years so RiverSong was sad to see him go as a semi-lover for a while.
It was a bit underwhelming. The Doctor spent half the episode collecting his army, then the battle was over before it had begun. Also I'd wish for there to be some explanation as to who the eyepatch ladies' accomplices were.
It's like they tried to squeeze together an entire arc to fit in one episode to give context to the revelation of River Song's identity.
Felt a bit dumb though that I didn't get the River Song - Melody Pond connection until she said it.
@scrupuloussam Well it's going to continue in the first episode that airs this fall, so obviously everything hasn't been wrapped up yet. It's only just beginning!
It didn't have much solid plot, but geez that episode was amazing! I loved the brinign back of old characters and the Dr. speaking baby. and Riversong's whole baby thing. it was an awesome episode!
I'm still not sold that River kills the Doctor. It just seems to be far too predictable for me. We never saw who exactly was in the space suit when the Doctor was killed so it doesn't necessarily have to have been the little girl. The title of this episode though leads me to believe that she kills Rory. Despite it being the Doctor's plan I feel like this was Rory's fight and he was the real one going to war here.
I do wish we could have seen more of just Rory & the Doctor planning this though.
If you take out the River/Doctor in love storyline, I'm okay with it. Otherwise it's squicky. The Doctor becomes Woody Allen, helping to raise his future wife/lover.
-The Doctor is heading to Gamma forest because when he found out who River was and looked down at the cloth he knew were to go(because of the language) -If this is true the Baby is probably there -Something else he might be heading to the past of the forest cause that's were. Lorna met the doctor there but he can't remember her
-Also River didn't tell the doctor cause she knows she tells him here and the timeline will be messy
I think baby is just something the TARDIS doesn't cover because its one of those mysteries that humans shouldn't understand yet. There's such a different connection between a baby and its parents that they don't necessarily need to speak to each other. It allows them to connect on a more purely emotional level. Just a theory.
My one big question that no one has seemed to have a good answer to. If the clerics are the ones who raised her, and they RAISED her to kill the doctor, why do they have her captive?
so wait shouldn't her name be song river? Also i have a feeling that since it appears she can regenerate, that next season the doctors companion will be a regeneration of river or something like that.
To be honest, I thought this episode was brilliant, perhaps the best episode of Series 6 so far, along with 'The Doctor's Wife' - despite the fact that the ending was rather predictable (you only need to watch the trailer for the episode to guess who River is). I'd give the episode a rating of 9/10.
Now I feel bad for Amy and rory they've had to watch their daughter flirt ridiculously with the doctor all season. I don't know what to think about river, I just don't know if I hate her or like her.
One of the strongest parts of this episode for me was how devastated the Doctor was when he was told that he was the reason a Timelord would be seen as a weapon. That is utterly at odds with the way he sees himself and the reality of it obviously thrashed him. This, combined with getting tricked the same way twice and not saving Melody, put's him in a very bad place mentally. I feel for the poor guy.
All this focus is being put on River, but actually she's a pretty two dimensional character. It's like, instead of making her an actual person they've just thrown in as many twists and gags as possible and just assume we'll like her because we're told to.
I think that the Moffet era has been so focused on big crazy plots that they've cast aside character development and emotion ie. things that are actually interesting.
Doctor Who has gotten so predictable, and that's really sad.
I kind of wish it had been something else other than the cybermen. They've lost their novelty. I know it would have taken a bit longer to have to explain who the aliens in place of the cybermen were, but.... maybe I just like new aliens.
Overall I thought it was a really solid episode, especially since the rumor that Amy was River's child was shut down by Moffat, it was a nice little twist. At first I thought that River was the Doctor- that it was his name written on the crib. That'd be odd.
I've always liked River, she's not my favorite, but I never disliked her. When I found out she was Amy and Rory's daughter...! I was...just wow, shocked! =D
When the baby was flesh I almost screamed along with Amy, was not expecting that!!
Ya I wanna know if River can regenerate! And I think I should have guessed who she was earlier cuz when Rory went to get her (dressed as a Roman) she was just returning form the doctor taking her out for her BIRTHDAY and that was the day that Melody was born.
If the girl who regenerated in the street a few episodes before.. I think.. If she can regenerate, it might not be a guaranteed regenerate every time.
@CamBlogs exactly, like maybe she can regenerate once (that time) but now she stays looking like the current River? i dunno, guess we'll find out in an autumn episode!!!
I found this to be a very satisfying episode. It had some moments that were a little too sill, like the spitfires coming to help fight, but overall it was very good. I think what made it so good was the emotion involved in it. The last scene was amazing and full of emotion.
Speaking of emotion... I just saw for the 1st time your reaction video to Journey's End Rose/Doctor in which the emotion of that clearly made you emotional. That was great and that is what a great episode does.
@MusCom15 I know! She's a BAMF and she has suuuch a heartbreaking storyline, but she always manages to keep it together and fight for what's right and for her doctor and she is willing to DIE for him and the universe. We've seen it, in silence in the library.
I look forward to your reaction videos almost as much as I do the episodes themselves. I find what you say really awesome and I love the things you point out.
perhaps the reason why river couldn't say so was because she could go back in time and accidently meet her past self cause the space-time continuum who be messed up
Isn't the setting of this episode before River had her last kiss with the Doctor? Maybe their relationship thing ended for her/started for him after she revealed who she was.. I'm still a little confused with the whole opposite directions thing but I *think* that makes sense? If she knew that revealing herself would end the relationship for her, she wouldn't want to do it.
@SodaSpill I would guess that it's because when it was created/grown/whatever, it was assumed that anyone using a TARDIS to travel would already speak Gallifreyan because they were from Gallifrey. That's how I explained it in my head, anyway.
@SodaSpill Well it wouldn't need to translate Gallifrayan because Time Lords can all read Gallifrayan. You don't need English translated for you do you?
@CreamingSoda33 No, but the TARDIS is supposed to get in the minds of all who travel in it, not just the Gallifreyans, right? And it SHOULD be able to translate it, even if it doesn't need to. It was definitely just for dramatic effect, but that doesn't make it less disappointing.
I assumed the Doctor had already 'fallen' because he didn't get there in time to save the flesh baby. The way he's treated by others after that point suggests they all think he's basically evil, so I thought the fact they turned away from him and stopped trusting him was his downfall; the doctor needs companions & friends.
Do you think River is going to kill Rory? She said that she kills 'the greatest man she ever knew' - surely the last centurion AND the girls own father fits the bill
I found this episode to be kinda of bleagh and it was not as solid as the other episodes were. And despite the revelation of River Bitch (sorry, Song)/Melody Pond/Melody Williams as Amy and Rory's timelord/human daugther, still find her to be detestable.
Hope to God this is the last appearance of Alex Kingston as River Song and shame on you, Stephen Moffat, for continuing what Russell T. Davies started with that harridan.
@denial987 Why all the River Song hate? I lover River Song. She comes across as over confidant, presumptious, way too flirtatious (which is her charm) and over-skilled for a reason. She comes from a time where the Doctor had come into his own, more in command of himself and his abilities than he is now that's why she comes accross as better than him and teases him about it. As for her overly flirty nature (if thats why people hate her) - she lived in the same time period Jack Harkness did.
@daleKdAaN I get what you're saying, but it seems to me that from the start they've been trying to make her into kind of a female Jack. Why not just have Jack?
@TheSamletMachine she is better than jack, jack was just rude, no offense to jack fans he was just straightout blunt when it came to that sort of thing. River Song though has quite a range from the subtle comments off hand and various sultry expressions to epic double entendres that kids will hopefulyl not understand but will make adults chuckle, well me anyway. In short, River is something of a sultry minx come ass kicker and is rather more choosy than jack was.
@movieluver2821 Assuming the baby in this episode is the child in episodes 1 and 2 (judging by the photo of amy and all that stuff I think they are the same child) then yes she can cos thats what the child did at the end of epi
"And if they don't show Doctor Who in your country I think that you should move" I agree!
Timetraveller0123 4 months ago in playlist More videos from TARDIStacular
Rory is hot. Especially in his Roman Centurion outfit. Yum.
sazzagee97 6 months ago
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sazzagee97 6 months ago
My ultimate favourite Doctor-speaking-alien-language moment was when it was David Tennant speaking Martian.
I actually like River. I think she's a very interesting character and I love how she's turned out but I agree that we were sort of told to like her but luckily for me, I obliged! :D
lillk001 6 months ago
The headless monks looked ridiculous with those knots, they looked so fake and comical.
Tripicality 6 months ago
I guess the main reason why I hated River was because, to me, she was taking Rose's place and it felt wrong that the doctor was falling in love with someone who's not Rose. But I love River now. She's totally kickass
amborati 6 months ago
Just wondering......does anyone else think that the Doctor we saw be shot is a flesh?
Loloxxxx1997 6 months ago
and maybe baby is like high gallifryean (SP?). it doesn't translate, you just have to know it.
MetalheadVic12 8 months ago
well, I feel like the reasons she didn't want to tell him are simple.
She knew this was bad before she told him, so im guessing the Doctor told her that this was surprising.
She was made to kill him. its like Darth Vader telling Luke that he was his father. its like "oh damn, shes gonna try to kill me too."
You KNOW she's gonna try to kill him, and the spacesuit was made for her, so its highly probable that she kills him. Also she knows he's just lost amys baby, so she knows shes in pain.
MetalheadVic12 8 months ago
that was the way it happend to river Song and she didn't want a paradoxs but the qustion i want to no is River song had somthing to do with her chiled hood as Melody Pond so why does she want the Doctor not to no he was invited to his death
Megmeg1998 8 months ago
Ro, Kay, & all Whovians: Are any of you as annoyed as I am that River appears to be able to escape her captors and/or prison and waltz in & out of prison whenever she feels like it; esp. when she's in prison 4 MURDER!? If it's that easy 4 her 2 escape, then why is she locked up in the first place? And I don't think she would ever VOLUNTARILY come back, unless she realizes it's where she belongs 4 what she's done, so she returns 2 ease her own conscience. Sorry 2b posting so much. A lot to say...
aSCIFIguy 8 months ago
All of the funny and sad moments hit their marks. It was amusing when Rory wanted Amy & The Doctor to stop hugging & he told them. This ep. definitely had plenty of rollercoaster emotional moments where viewers were laughing or smiling in one moment, & crying the next. Those were great moments. I also like how,over time,Rory went from fraidy cat to someone who WOULD confront the Daleks alone. Harkens back 2 Mickey Smith's transformation. But both defended their women, whatev the cost. KBO all !
aSCIFIguy 8 months ago
Rory's lone confrontation of the Cybermen just reenforces a comment I left at your review of TRF/TAP in regards to Rory defending Amy. The Doctor facing off against whole armies and walking away alive is wearing thin with me(spec. this ep. and TPO/TBB. He's brave,yes. But he CAN be killed, and by all rights should be when it comes to one man against (plural) ARMIES. Howev-good points-the Doc's interaction w/the baby was sweet, and his reaction to the reveal was PRICELESS! Has 2b continued...
aSCIFIguy 8 months ago
Don't know why but I love your accent which is wierd cos' I hear English accents a lot. Haha.
cheekyandgeeky 8 months ago
i think she kills him and i think she didnt tell him cause "spoilers"
celebrian94 8 months ago
I think They took the baby to Pre-Time War Gallifry
nichill86 8 months ago
I feel like it was pretty obvious that River Song is Amy's daughter when the soldier lady came to Amy with the sewed piece with the baby's name in a different language because River Song is just another way of wording Melody Pond. Melody (a Song) and Pond (another type of water mass like River). This episode is easily one of my favorites!
aliceGpeck 8 months ago
I liked river song from the beginning.
dudds6699 8 months ago
im still confused about the girl in the spacesuit.
looloolemon100 8 months ago
The Baby talk was hilarious....and thats my biggest question too...How Time Lordy is River actually? Im hoping that this means a new start for the Time Lord race because then The Doctor will have a form of redemption for Gallifrey and the Time War Lock! I dont want to wait it should be an all year round show.... I just dont understand how their gonna work the baby into their adventures. I really hope that this doesnt mean Rory/Amy are done as companions :^(
wvboarder2005 8 months ago
@wvboarder2005 Surely a Timelord has to have Symbiotic Nucleai, two hearts and a silly hat? She probably has a silly hat but I doubt lumpy old river had the other stuff just from travelling around inside the Tardis inside her mum. On the Fenric DVD they mentioned the theory that the Doctor was going to take his then companion Ace back to his home world to revitalise his race-then it got cancelled...
ajivins1 8 months ago
i think river song killed the doctor, and this was shortly before the silence in the library episode, therefore river didn't know she had done it yet. but clearly there was a reason if she did kill him, a reason in which the doctor had to agree to be killed and stuff... after watching time of the angels it seemed like she had hurt him or betrayed him some how.... just by the way the bishop was talking to her.
oneandonlycassiandra 8 months ago
The Doctor goes around saving planets and even the universe and never asks for anything in return. I think that has even been said in a episode. He is also clever enough to do a lot of damage without help. So given that he's asking for repayment and feels the need to get help, it really shoudl be treated as a big deal. It's not something that just happens.
I thought 11 was more free of the baggage 9 and 10 had about killing so many ppl but it seems not.
greatsayain 8 months ago
Well river can fly the TARDIS and according to the colin baker episode the two doctors, (at least I think that is the one) the doctor says that only him/ a time lord can pilot the TARDIS because of the symbiotic link.
Awelbel 8 months ago
@Awelbel The Rassilon Imprintur (totally hosed the spelling there). When the Doctor originally got the TARDIS he had very little idea what a TARDIS /really/ was. Over time he has learnt a lot and I don't think he'd say anything so silly any more. Simply put, the TARDIS can be flown by whoever the TARDIS wants.
KaitharVideo 8 months ago
I have a feeling Alex Kingston will not actually be River's only regeneration. By that I mean, I think if they want to recast River Song at some point perhaps because Kingston is starting to look a decent amount older than she did in her first appearance or just for plot reasons, they could potentially recast her and say that River Song as played by Kingston, is only *SPOILERS* her final regeneration as we saw in Silence in the LIbrary, as opposed to her only one since regenerating in EP2
PetrosofSparta 8 months ago
I think she can be gallifreyan.. In a sense. I mean. The tardis is from gallifrey and that is where she was conceived? right?
monkeyaround92 8 months ago
One thing that I'm really curious about is the relationship between Amy, Rory, and River. It must be really weird for Amy and Rory to find out that their baby is a fully-grown woman who they've been traveling with. I wonder if they get the baby back and if they raise River or if River grows up elsewhere because I feel like that could really change their relationship.
tallatstarbucks 8 months ago
also, there was the tiniest moment that I loved, when the Rory says to the Sontaran "You're a warrior" and the Sontaran says "I'm a nurse". The Warrior became a nurse and Rory (the nurse) became a warrior... tiny, but I thought it was great...
BellaLin27 8 months ago 4
River's face when she saw Rory was when I knew. I thought that was such a brilliant bit of acting from Alex Kingston! Oddly enough, I didn't clue in to the "Melody Pond, River Song" thing (which is incredibly obvious after you notice it) until after that moment.
BellaLin27 8 months ago
I kinda knew River had to be their daughter. a lot of hints where dropped this series. i found it interesting that is was Amy POND and RIVER Song, water names. Then for, for me at least, the thing about the only water in the forest being the river and then seeing that Amy named the baby Melody, it clicked in my head and i freaked out. when the ending confirmed my theory, i lost my shit! =D But I loved the episode and i hope all the question i have left are answered and hopefully well.
portagee032 8 months ago
@portagee032 That was the point River made when the TARDIS translated the leaf-thingy at the end - They don't have a word for 'Pond', as the only water is the running 'rivers' - Aha!
MegaM45 8 months ago
there was one part that kinda got to me...I thought the headless monks couldn't be persuaded except apparently they can just by saying you arent a fool...which on its own seems like kind of a foolish thing to do but that's just me being nitpicky I reckon it was great all in all
SabreX2 8 months ago
(continuing from my last post ) Also I thought it was a bit odd that the Doctor did say that he had a daughter because as we all know from the david tenant days HE DOES. Why was it even that big of a deal to mention it. He could have just said "a long time ago, yes" or something like that. I just kinda thought it was odd.
filibusterfirework74 8 months ago
@filibusterfirework74 The 1st Doctor (William Hartnell) had a grand-daughter called Susan. The 9th Doctor (Ecclestone) killed all the time lords, perhaps including some of his own family. In 6.03 The Doctor's Wife, the 11th says "I killed them all". I thought this is what was meant, ignoring Jenny from The Doctor's Daughter. It would delight some fans and infuriate others if Jenny was Susan's mother. (lol).
WooWhoWho 8 months ago
@WooWhoWho Okay so I knew about both Susan and Jenny but I never made that connection, that is such an awesome idea. But yeah I just thought it is kinda strange that he doesn't mention it.
filibusterfirework74 8 months ago
First off I would just like to mention just how freaking amazing Rory was in this episode. He was bad ass and at the same time very love-able. I had this theory for a very long time that some how the baby is the doctors daughter (not Rory's). I dont know though I guess I want that to be true again because even though River was better in this episode I still largely disslike her. Plus it bothers me that she doesnt even look like she could have been Amy and Rory or Amy and the Dr.'s daughter...
filibusterfirework74 8 months ago
I felt kinda... lost watching it. Not to say it wasn't fantastic, brilliant, cool, etc. but it was so BIG. It had so much scale as a piece, so far from anything that Doctor Who has done before. I felt that the whole collecting debts thing was nice, but went on for far too long, I wanted to see the Doctor! The reveal of River Song wasn't suprising to me, but like you said, it'll be interesting to see what comes from it, where the Doctor went in the TARDIS.
mushroomshrub 8 months ago
I'm soooo happy I can finally watch this video!!! haha It's just been staring me down all week haha ;D
coollikeaninja 8 months ago
Great review.
On your question of what River Song is I have a theory:
She is a contained Meta Crisis-based Human-Time Lord who survived the process because of how she was conceived as opposed to the Doctor/Donna who wasn't created to be a human conduit of Time Lord energy following "Journey's End". Moreover, because she is a human conduit she has a limited amount of regenerations as opposed to a true Time Lord, like the Doctor, which explains her death at the end of "Forest of the Dead".
LucLightWolf121 8 months ago
@LucLightWolf121 well her death is also explained in the actual episode "Forest of the Dead", because it's established that even the doctor wouldn't have time to regenerate, the death would be too fast. That is why River knocks out the doctor and attaches herself to the machine in his place, because she knows he doesn't have a chance."
BellaLin27 8 months ago
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LucLightWolf121 8 months ago
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LucLightWolf121 8 months ago
I really didn't like the part with the baby turning out to be flesh, mostly because it was bloody disturbing.
<3 the Stevie Wonder joke though.
Baconfish 8 months ago
Something we've been forgetting, with all the River Song excitement. Every series of the new Doctor Who we've gotten at least one classic enemy, if not two. The Daleks, The Cybermen, The Macra and the Master, The Sontarrans, The Silurians. We haven't had our classic baddie yet. So the only two options are, The producers forgot or are skipping this series, or we're in for our past villain when the series returns in autumn, possibly for the series finale.
Sairin13 8 months ago
I expected River to turn out to be Amy's baby as soon as Amy mentioned she was preggers, and I'd kind of speculated that might be it for quite a few episodes before that. The name Melody as seen on the incubator cinched it for me, but it was nice to have that reveal at the end. Though all she really had to do was let the words translate. The declaration of "I'm your daughter, I'm Melody" at the end felt like it was just grinding it in and dumbing it down for those who STILL didn't get it.
djtron1x 8 months ago
i actually kind of thought that river might be amys daughter
Purplemonkeyonabike 8 months ago
How do you get from pond to pond? River!
musicfan135 8 months ago
i think the doctor is well learned in the field of taking care of babys therefore he can tell when a baby is laughing at something (say a bow tie) crying due to hunger or tiredness.
in summation he can tell baby needs by tone
piratecheese13 8 months ago
Bah the headless munks were scary with their twisted off neck/heads. Rory was so good looking when he was being bad ass as a Roman! I thought the episode was well done but I was not surprised at all to find that River Song is Amy and Rory's daughter. It was sad that the baby was a flesh though, poor Amy :(
hdonkers 8 months ago 14
I'm thinking that the reason why Dr Song was so hesitant to tell the Doctor was a bit like her being hesitant to tell the Doctor that he's going to die - it could possibly give him the idea that it'll all work out the way it'll work out? And she didn't want to tell him because she loved him and blahdeblahdeblah, and didn't want to ruin that?
Yeah? No? Oooookay then. CANNOT WAIT FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON!
visibledinosaur 9 months ago
Does anyone know why River knew not to go with Rory to help the Doctor? How did she know that was the day he finds out who she is?
itsnonsensical 9 months ago
@itsnonsensical because it had already happened for her and she had written about it in her diary thing. Or thats what i got from it anyways
dingis07 9 months ago
@dingis07 Ohh, possibly yeah. :') Her timeline is super confusing. Thanks!
itsnonsensical 8 months ago
@itsnonsensical hahaa, ikr? no problem.
dingis07 8 months ago
I wonder what will you do after 5 years
AHMEDStation 9 months ago
I don't believe anything yet because I just know moff is going to trick us even more in the fall
hipstersinspacee 9 months ago
@Choggspaced But I liked that about Ten! The Master was hell bent on taking over the Earth but when he was about to die The Doctor still tried to help him and heal him because of the simple fact that he was one of his own, he wanted to look after him and even begged him to regenerate and I don't think Steven would have him do that. I just don't like it, does he really need to have a "darkest hour"? Come season 7 The Doctor will be himself again and his "darkest hour" will be irrelevant.
MBGamingLegends 9 months ago
I feel like we've only been given a part of who River is. They still never explained what her connection/history with the Doctor was. (They sure kissed more intensely than anyone normally would kiss their parent's friend...) Also if Amy was flesh for so long does that mean that the real Amy won't remember what happened in America? What repercussions will that have?
KieliAnne 9 months ago
@Choggspaced The only thing The Silence did was watch over history and make stuff happen, is it really that much of a crime? To be fair Ten did do some "not-very-Doctorish-things" but he always showed humility and Eleven doesn't have that, he showed zero remorse for killing The Silence and The Cybermen.
MBGamingLegends 9 months ago
One question if someone can help me with this, the girl who sewed together the prayer leaf, wasn't she from galifrey and if so why didn't she regenerate when she died???
happyshoppper56 9 months ago
@happyshoppper56 No. She said she was from the Gamma Forest, which is unlikely to be on Gallifrey considering how difficult it has become to leave Gallifrey. It was also significant to the plot that the language she wrote in was not Gallifreyan.
Flinklehurst 9 months ago
Just saying, Rory had the MOST badass entrance in the beginning of the episode. Damn
LizzieBananas 9 months ago
The "battle" was horrible, most of the story was horrible, they've turned the Doctor into a murderer. I hate you Steven Moffat.....
MBGamingLegends 9 months ago
I just want to know who River killed.
idefine777 9 months ago
Apparently there actually is a baby language that's universal in all babies, and it's like when they cry they make different sounds automatically for if they're hungry, tired etc..
ntcssj 9 months ago
We already know River has the capacity to regenerate - go re-watch the earlier episodes with the girl in the spacesuit ;) So, I guess she's more wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey than we know so far...Hmm...
MegaM45 9 months ago 25
@MegaM45 WHAT!?
DarkenedYeastExtract 9 months ago
I was relieved that the recent trend of the Dcotor being willing to kill, getting overwhelmed by his own anger, etc. was shown to be really purposeful/intentional by this episode. e.g. taking out all those cybermen was clearly not normal behavior. Hopefully this trend will be "resolved "by the end of the season.
Also: the beginning, when Amy was describing Rory to Melody, and of course we all think it's the Doctor at first—They've played that idea a few times now, but I still love it.
odddialect 9 months ago
I was kinda disappointed with the River/Melody switch, because it was a theory I'd seen EVERYWHERE and it felt kinda like cheating, but the more I think about it, the more perfect it is.
I especially liked how little Melody didn't like the TARDIS noise.
Murglie 9 months ago
@quellenight She couldn't have regenerated in FotD, it was too powerful. The reason she pulled the Doctor out and plugged herself in was because she knew even he wouldn't survive it.
Murglie 9 months ago
I didn't really like this episode. In fact I haven't really liked where the Doctor Who series has been going. I am not old or nostalgic. I'm 18. The thing I don't like is that the Doctor shouldn't kill things. That isn't the way his ethos works. Think back to Tom Baker and that lot. Death was something they set out to stop and the Doctor has already commited genecide twice this seaon. The Silence and the Cybermen this episode. He kills loads of them. It just felt wrong to me
ScrapperTBP 9 months ago 2
@ScrapperTBP Which is why his Fall is coming.. I think the Doctor's Darkest Hour will have a lot to do with how reckless he's been recently..
Murglie 9 months ago
@Murglie
I get that I just do not like it. It just feels wrong and I put a lot of emphasis on the word 'feels'.
Thanks for the reply though ^^
ScrapperTBP 9 months ago
@ScrapperTBP I agree! When he willingly let River shoot the Silence I was really upset because it was against everything he stands for, but when he killed the Cybermen I was just shocked and I just couldn't comprehend it. I hope Steven can draw that line again when the series comes back in September. RTD spent all that time re-establishing those boundaries and then Moffat comes along and has The Doctor kill everything in sight lol.
MBGamingLegends 9 months ago
@MBGamingLegends This being the same RTD who had the Doctor essentially trying to become GOD... Yeah, those boundaries are really distinguishable.
jeracaruna9 9 months ago
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ScrapperTBP 9 months ago
I really liked this episode. The Melody Pond/River Song name switch was really clever - made me realise how much they plan these sorts of things in advance!! And the fact that the Doctor speaks Baby is awesome :)
iceteabeingstirred 9 months ago
is America one week late on new episodes of Doctor Who? =C (BBC America wise) Is it because of memorial day?
CaptainEzzy 9 months ago
This is one of my favorite reviews that you've done :D
ImHyper11 9 months ago
jeez i think im the only one in the world who doesn't mind river....in fact i really like her! yes, i get sometimes she is ''overdone'' (like shooting the doctors hat off etc), but i really do like her.
simplybecky01 9 months ago
This episode...ah, I loved it! Thinking about it, and all the repercussions makes my brain hurt, but in terms of television...either I was cheering, grinning broadly, punching the air, or laughing...it was just a good hour of screen watching. Not sure if I get it, but it was probably the best fun I've had all season... :-)
hxcharrypotterfan123 9 months ago
The first episode that River Song (or Melody Pond) appeared in was in the fourth series. She told the Tenth Doctor his name, and he said there is only one reason he'd ever tell somebody what it was. I'm curious to know both what his real name was and what the reason for telling is.
TheGingerHermione 9 months ago
It was (in my opinion) the best episode since End of Time part 2. It was very predictable. I kind of figured out who River Song was at the start of series 5 and her Time Lord connection was made obvious in series 4. Overall, a good episode but what I want know is who tried to blow up the Tardis? Since Day of the Moon there has been no connection to that at all.
magicallord55 9 months ago
I don't think I"m the only one hoping to see a lot more of the Victorian Silurian and her girlfriend...Adored that Amy told her baby about the man who would rescue her, The Last Centurion...methinks the Doctor is headed for the Gamma Forest (wherever that is). Eventually.
zahir13 9 months ago
i feel as though they`re getting to concentrate to much into the big story arc`s, it`s limiting alot of stand alone episodes. the story probably is going to go River is destined to kill the doctor, so he lets her so he can do something clever on his terms. what really creeps me out is it made the doctor look a bit pedo at the end seeing a baby that will grow into someone he will(?). have a relationship with.
best scene :Rory the last centurion threatening a group of heavely armed cybermen.
thanqualthehighseer 9 months ago
An amazing episode with many aliens and a little some space action. Loved it! :)
firnantok 9 months ago
someon pointed out to me that river has no reaction to amy and rory really before this ep, and as her parents surely she they would be important to her?? and would they not have told river of the doctor, and so wouldn't she have known about him before the story that she tells rory in the first story of the season about 'how would you feel if a person turned up and knew everything about you'. Maybe the doctor does something horrific to get her back and that is his greatest fall.......
littlelostnell 9 months ago
Terrific episode! Well, since we know River Song is part time lady, and that we saw the child start to regenerate at the end of "Day of the Moon," it is safe to say the she is a Time Lady in the strictest sense. Also, since she is part Time Lady, I have a feeling that River and the Doctor will be getting married. This is gonna get pretty interesting.
God bless!
2ndCorpsAnv 9 months ago
@AmeliaO1997 Because Rory took on Amy's last name, making him Rory Pond, making the baby Melody Pond!
belleglass 9 months ago
Never mind the whole baby saga, my big question is: how did the headless monks chant their 'battle prayer' without mouths? Other than that small niggle, a great episode.
unrestcure 9 months ago
I love your reaction! Thats exactly how I felt too. It was such an elegant, beautifully told story. The second half of the episode just blew me away. I think the Doctor is going to find RIver now. River will meet him for the first time. The Doctor in the future is still dead and that needs to be explained. And the whole space suit mystery. As for questions about River, we know she can regenerate and she was put in storm cage for some reason. I really can't wait to see more of her story!
yerbuaaubrey23 9 months ago
I'm assuming River looks so different from Amy and Rory is because of the whole regeneration thing. If it was River/Melody regenerating in the ally we know she's done it before. Sadly we do know that it is her last regeneration since we saw her die in Silence in the Library.
AnyaReine 9 months ago
@AnyaReine It isn't her last regeneration, regeneration doesn't make a Timelord/lady immortal, as we saw in episode 1 of season 6, even The Doctor would've died if he took River's place in Silence in the Library.
MBGamingLegends 9 months ago
I honestly think the Doctor was just joking when he said he spoke baby, after all, neither Rory or Amy understood the baby
droptheleash1992 9 months ago
The doctor is far more tuned in, that's why he can "speak baby".
She's sad for him to find out partly because of the other events of that area, partly because she is still under the mistaken belief that their timelines are completely opposed directions, but I think there is still more to be revealed there.
KaitharVideo 9 months ago
@KaitharVideo Oh yeah, you just made me realize that if River & the Doctor actually ARE moving in opposite directions, then it makes sense that she'd be sad because from her perspective, every time she sees him again he's not going to know who she is, and neither are her parents. So it's kind of like her first step in losing all of them, maybe
belleglass 9 months ago
@belleglass Of course her time line isn't exactly in reverse, she just thinks it is cause they're both so early on. There is actually a good clue in this video... the doctor took her ice skating, which he hasn't done yet.
But from her perspective at the present point in her timeline, you are correct.
KaitharVideo 8 months ago
@KaitharVideo Ah, yeah. I'm still not exactly clear on her/11's timeline but I think that's got to be at least partially intentional, so it'll probably be cleared up at some point (I hope). But yeah, at least from River's point of view, since she believes them to be moving in opposite directions blah blah blah, I gotcha. :)
belleglass 8 months ago
I think River will kill Rory. She did kill "a good man, a hero to many" - I think we've watched Rory become this. Plus her ambiguous reaction when Rory steps forward out of the darkness at the beginning of this episode and introduces himself...
Elrich89 9 months ago
I loved this episode. Maybe I'm just a brainwashed Moffat lover but I haven't disliked a single thing that man has done. I didn't like River in the Library episodes but then she instantly grew on me. I loved A Good Man Goes to War. Not much really happened, but it was very....epic.
Thestralsxxx 9 months ago
My question is if (if!) the baby is the spacesuit girl and also River, then why would she end up in jail a long time/way away for the murder of the Doctor on modern day Earth? Fishy.
Also I enjoyed the Team TARDIS.2; that Sontaran was so Welsh Valleys (which made me love him all the more) and Madam Siliurian and her maid? The coolest. I felt awful for poor Lorna Bucket, though - she was yet another sacrificial lamb for the Doctor, which has been happening disconcertingly frequently of late.
marillbuddy 9 months ago
I think that the speaking baby thing was more of a joke than anything.
sitbunnynow 9 months ago
I figured it out about 15 minutes before it was actually revealed. I don't even remember how.
DJAustay 9 months ago
@AmeliaO1997 ah, I hadn't thought of that! But it looked quite old, I assumed it was the Doctor's name.. and wouldn't he have written it in English so Amy/Rory could read it, or at least told them what it said... but that is actually the best theory I've heard :)
benjiappleton 9 months ago
The Headless Monks were just a straightforward cross between the Nazgul and the Sith, so.. that was weird
bakar12345 9 months ago
@AmeliaO1997 superhero not geography teacher!
hollium 9 months ago
Also, anyone confused by how River has such curly hair...and neither Amy nor Rory even has wavy hair. And I wish Amy's daughter had beautiful red hair just like her. God, I'm just too attached to this show and these characters.
missrosepip 9 months ago
My brother only started watching Doctor Who a few weeks ago. One of the first episodes he watches was with River Song (the Weeping Angels) and right after that episode he called exactly who River killed to get in jail. And the whole Melody Pond-River Song thing was too obvious. As soon as I heard the baby's name I knew what "The only water in the forest in the river" meant...Still a great episode, though. (Still not a fan of River, though. I really wish I could be, but I'm not.)
missrosepip 9 months ago
How did looking at the writing on the cot tell the Doctor who River was? o.O
benjiappleton 9 months ago
@benjiappleton I assumed it was misdirection on the viewer's part; she was indicating the prayer leaf in the cot the whole time, only they made it appear to be the writing on the cot.
marillbuddy 9 months ago
I found it absolutely heartbreaking that Amy and Rory essentially lost their baby, especially when the Flesh baby "melted", as it were. It just makes me so angry that they can't get baby Melody back and bring her up and be proper parents, as that would mean the whole River thing then couldn't have happened. Unless it just meant it happened differently. Damn, I'm confusing myself.
nerdyenglishgirl 9 months ago
The only part of the episdoe that really annoyed me was the fact that they very obviously reveal River's identity to the Doctor and then Amy STILL has to ask River who she is. I was upset because they were makng Amy look really stupid at that point. Does anyone else agree?
iggle07 9 months ago
The doctor says "but we *kissing action*" to river, but river doesn't know that yet!
That means they'll kiss again
MrMinVik 9 months ago
@MrMinVik well, when they kissed at the end of the two parter (her last time, his first) she seemed very sad it was her last time, implying they'd done it loads of times before
hollium 9 months ago
Maybe it's because I constantly compare River and The Doctor to Henry and Claire from the Time Traveller's Wife, but I think she didn't tell him because she already hadn't; she knows how the future is meant to be so she follows that story.
bouncyangel 9 months ago
I would have liked to see them give a little more exposition for the Doctor's Army. Because you always see him give the bad guys a chance, and now we're seeing what happens when they actually take the chance and surrender instead of going on to be defeated. I loved the Colonel Runaway bit. Including the bit with him saying "Look I'm angry, that's new." I think he literally hasn't been this angry yet in this regeneration. Other than that, we got to see the Doctor's cot. Timebaby, with a timehead.
Sairin13 9 months ago
I have to say Matt Smith has really grown on me. as well as Karen and Arthur. It will be sad if all the rumors of them leaving end up true. With that being said I have truly enjoyed this series 100%! So far and, I'd go as far as to say it's up there with 9's run and the first series of the 10th Doctor's run. Never liked Martha much and Donna was ok. I still enjoyed those series. And I wish people would stop knocking on Matt and Alex. It's annoying!!! Cannot wait till this Fall :)
TheJavafiend 9 months ago
Comment removed
TheJavafiend 9 months ago
@ Amy's grief.
Especially with her holding the gun. She's always been very forceful but it was still shocking and heartbreaking to see how far she would go.
You can definately see where River gets her actions from ;)
NicoleCorp77 9 months ago
I figured this out a while ago, and yet I still hoped it wouldn't be true.
I still think the "best man she ever knew" is Rory.
and I still hope that River really isnt Melody...(hey I can dream)
I'm not ready to say goodbye to Karen Gillan yet. I want her back for s7. I know it wont happen but. I want more Doctor and Amy adventures. 3's a crowd!
mione134 9 months ago
I figured out the who River Song was the second I saw "Melody Pond" on the baby's hospital (?) cot... but I didn't start to realize all the connections until I watched that. Remember that River Song "killed the best man [she] ever knew". The little girl killed the Doctor. And regenerated. River Song was the little girl. It makes sense now.
Although @TheSuperSheeep has a point...
marawrXD 9 months ago
My theory is that the doctor is going to where we saw the younger girl regenerate and therefore spend time with RiverSong that way rather than in her older more mature years so RiverSong was sad to see him go as a semi-lover for a while.
OriginalSkepo 9 months ago
I actually don't get why so many people dislike River Song, I really like her all along..
xFunkyGirlzx 9 months ago
It was a bit underwhelming. The Doctor spent half the episode collecting his army, then the battle was over before it had begun. Also I'd wish for there to be some explanation as to who the eyepatch ladies' accomplices were.
It's like they tried to squeeze together an entire arc to fit in one episode to give context to the revelation of River Song's identity.
Felt a bit dumb though that I didn't get the River Song - Melody Pond connection until she said it.
scrupuloussam 9 months ago 17
@scrupuloussam Well it's going to continue in the first episode that airs this fall, so obviously everything hasn't been wrapped up yet. It's only just beginning!
KATEisFAB 8 months ago
It didn't have much solid plot, but geez that episode was amazing! I loved the brinign back of old characters and the Dr. speaking baby. and Riversong's whole baby thing. it was an awesome episode!
she is a Timelord, but she isn't from Gallifrian.
benpat100 9 months ago
I'm still not sold that River kills the Doctor. It just seems to be far too predictable for me. We never saw who exactly was in the space suit when the Doctor was killed so it doesn't necessarily have to have been the little girl. The title of this episode though leads me to believe that she kills Rory. Despite it being the Doctor's plan I feel like this was Rory's fight and he was the real one going to war here.
I do wish we could have seen more of just Rory & the Doctor planning this though.
thomassholan7 9 months ago
If you take out the River/Doctor in love storyline, I'm okay with it. Otherwise it's squicky. The Doctor becomes Woody Allen, helping to raise his future wife/lover.
raevyn17 9 months ago
A few things I think will happen and why:
-The Doctor is heading to Gamma forest because when he found out who River was and looked down at the cloth he knew were to go(because of the language) -If this is true the Baby is probably there -Something else he might be heading to the past of the forest cause that's were. Lorna met the doctor there but he can't remember her
-Also River didn't tell the doctor cause she knows she tells him here and the timeline will be messy
ultimatedbz2 9 months ago
I think baby is just something the TARDIS doesn't cover because its one of those mysteries that humans shouldn't understand yet. There's such a different connection between a baby and its parents that they don't necessarily need to speak to each other. It allows them to connect on a more purely emotional level. Just a theory.
cookiemonstrously 9 months ago
My one big question that no one has seemed to have a good answer to. If the clerics are the ones who raised her, and they RAISED her to kill the doctor, why do they have her captive?
FrazzDoes 9 months ago
so wait shouldn't her name be song river? Also i have a feeling that since it appears she can regenerate, that next season the doctors companion will be a regeneration of river or something like that.
ThaSinfulbojangler 9 months ago
To be honest, I thought this episode was brilliant, perhaps the best episode of Series 6 so far, along with 'The Doctor's Wife' - despite the fact that the ending was rather predictable (you only need to watch the trailer for the episode to guess who River is). I'd give the episode a rating of 9/10.
Tardis5005 9 months ago
Now I feel bad for Amy and rory they've had to watch their daughter flirt ridiculously with the doctor all season. I don't know what to think about river, I just don't know if I hate her or like her.
ldlizard 9 months ago
One of the strongest parts of this episode for me was how devastated the Doctor was when he was told that he was the reason a Timelord would be seen as a weapon. That is utterly at odds with the way he sees himself and the reality of it obviously thrashed him. This, combined with getting tricked the same way twice and not saving Melody, put's him in a very bad place mentally. I feel for the poor guy.
vanessatrelane 9 months ago
All this focus is being put on River, but actually she's a pretty two dimensional character. It's like, instead of making her an actual person they've just thrown in as many twists and gags as possible and just assume we'll like her because we're told to.
I think that the Moffet era has been so focused on big crazy plots that they've cast aside character development and emotion ie. things that are actually interesting.
Doctor Who has gotten so predictable, and that's really sad.
TheSamletMachine 9 months ago
the headless monks remind me of balloons :)
madilaura22 9 months ago
I loved the episode, and I totally called River being Amy and Rory's daughter.
millystack 9 months ago
I kind of wish it had been something else other than the cybermen. They've lost their novelty. I know it would have taken a bit longer to have to explain who the aliens in place of the cybermen were, but.... maybe I just like new aliens.
Overall I thought it was a really solid episode, especially since the rumor that Amy was River's child was shut down by Moffat, it was a nice little twist. At first I thought that River was the Doctor- that it was his name written on the crib. That'd be odd.
hodgpodgemagic 9 months ago
I've always liked River, she's not my favorite, but I never disliked her. When I found out she was Amy and Rory's daughter...! I was...just wow, shocked! =D
When the baby was flesh I almost screamed along with Amy, was not expecting that!!
Ya I wanna know if River can regenerate! And I think I should have guessed who she was earlier cuz when Rory went to get her (dressed as a Roman) she was just returning form the doctor taking her out for her BIRTHDAY and that was the day that Melody was born.
rlpDean 9 months ago
@rlpDean
If the girl who regenerated in the street a few episodes before.. I think.. If she can regenerate, it might not be a guaranteed regenerate every time.
CamBlogs 9 months ago
@CamBlogs exactly, like maybe she can regenerate once (that time) but now she stays looking like the current River? i dunno, guess we'll find out in an autumn episode!!!
rlpDean 9 months ago
I found this to be a very satisfying episode. It had some moments that were a little too sill, like the spitfires coming to help fight, but overall it was very good. I think what made it so good was the emotion involved in it. The last scene was amazing and full of emotion.
Speaking of emotion... I just saw for the 1st time your reaction video to Journey's End Rose/Doctor in which the emotion of that clearly made you emotional. That was great and that is what a great episode does.
TheBenStacey 9 months ago
i dont understand what people hate about River, i think shes amazing
MusCom15 9 months ago 17
@MusCom15 I know! She's a BAMF and she has suuuch a heartbreaking storyline, but she always manages to keep it together and fight for what's right and for her doctor and she is willing to DIE for him and the universe. We've seen it, in silence in the library.
greengabmonster 9 months ago
I look forward to your reaction videos almost as much as I do the episodes themselves. I find what you say really awesome and I love the things you point out.
VlogTori 9 months ago
perhaps the reason why river couldn't say so was because she could go back in time and accidently meet her past self cause the space-time continuum who be messed up
4er1e 9 months ago
@TARDIStacular She did say she killed a good man, the best, A HERO TO MANY.
Unless she's talking about her dad, Rory, I really think it is the Doctor.
After all, She's a weapon to be used against him, it was said so in the episode.
It's already pretty much clear that she's capable of regeneration.
One thing though, she broke out of the suit and regen'd, so how is she or who is in the suit?
There was a teaser image of a skeleton holding the Sonic at the end of the episode.
Is this a clue?
andyot7777 9 months ago
@TARDIStacular I think now that the cat is finally out of the bag, her character can be developed much better.
It was somewhat annoying waiting for her reveal but now she can be used in a much better way.
And the revelation that the Doctor sends her back to where she's needed to help him out is actually pretty cool!
andyot7777 9 months ago
Isn't the setting of this episode before River had her last kiss with the Doctor? Maybe their relationship thing ended for her/started for him after she revealed who she was.. I'm still a little confused with the whole opposite directions thing but I *think* that makes sense? If she knew that revealing herself would end the relationship for her, she wouldn't want to do it.
SpellboundSama 9 months ago
WHERE IS MY WIFE? Rory made the episode amazing from the beginning
DFTBA10000 9 months ago 3
I don't understand why the TARDS, the GALLIFREYAN TARDIS, cannot translate Gallifreyan. It's FROM Gallifrey. That doesn't make sense to me at all.
SodaSpill 9 months ago
@SodaSpill I would guess that it's because when it was created/grown/whatever, it was assumed that anyone using a TARDIS to travel would already speak Gallifreyan because they were from Gallifrey. That's how I explained it in my head, anyway.
megmurry 9 months ago
@SodaSpill Well it wouldn't need to translate Gallifrayan because Time Lords can all read Gallifrayan. You don't need English translated for you do you?
CreamingSoda33 9 months ago
@CreamingSoda33 No, but the TARDIS is supposed to get in the minds of all who travel in it, not just the Gallifreyans, right? And it SHOULD be able to translate it, even if it doesn't need to. It was definitely just for dramatic effect, but that doesn't make it less disappointing.
fiveawesomeknitters 9 months ago
I assumed the Doctor had already 'fallen' because he didn't get there in time to save the flesh baby. The way he's treated by others after that point suggests they all think he's basically evil, so I thought the fact they turned away from him and stopped trusting him was his downfall; the doctor needs companions & friends.
PurpleFunnyChocolate 9 months ago
I really liked the moment when the sontaran told Rory that he wasn't and only a nurse, I thought yhat Rory's reaction was brilliant.
completeidiot19 9 months ago
Do you think River is going to kill Rory? She said that she kills 'the greatest man she ever knew' - surely the last centurion AND the girls own father fits the bill
purelee 9 months ago
I found this episode to be kinda of bleagh and it was not as solid as the other episodes were. And despite the revelation of River Bitch (sorry, Song)/Melody Pond/Melody Williams as Amy and Rory's timelord/human daugther, still find her to be detestable.
Hope to God this is the last appearance of Alex Kingston as River Song and shame on you, Stephen Moffat, for continuing what Russell T. Davies started with that harridan.
denial987 9 months ago
@denial987 Welll it was actually Moffat's story, River is Moffat's character, so it's not RTD's fault!
TARDIStacular 9 months ago 18
@denial987 Why all the River Song hate? I lover River Song. She comes across as over confidant, presumptious, way too flirtatious (which is her charm) and over-skilled for a reason. She comes from a time where the Doctor had come into his own, more in command of himself and his abilities than he is now that's why she comes accross as better than him and teases him about it. As for her overly flirty nature (if thats why people hate her) - she lived in the same time period Jack Harkness did.
daleKdAaN 9 months ago 2
@daleKdAaN I get what you're saying, but it seems to me that from the start they've been trying to make her into kind of a female Jack. Why not just have Jack?
TheSamletMachine 9 months ago
@TheSamletMachine she is better than jack, jack was just rude, no offense to jack fans he was just straightout blunt when it came to that sort of thing. River Song though has quite a range from the subtle comments off hand and various sultry expressions to epic double entendres that kids will hopefulyl not understand but will make adults chuckle, well me anyway. In short, River is something of a sultry minx come ass kicker and is rather more choosy than jack was.
daleKdAaN 9 months ago
I wonder if River can regenerate
movieluver2821 9 months ago
@movieluver2821 Assuming the baby in this episode is the child in episodes 1 and 2 (judging by the photo of amy and all that stuff I think they are the same child) then yes she can cos thats what the child did at the end of epi