I'm glad you posted this video. WAKE UP CHURCH! You have SO MANY STUPID DOCTRINES! Get the leaven out! Calvinism...get it out! Arminianism...get it out! Denominations...get them out! Elevating the office of pastor...get it out! Dead ritual...get it out! Dispensationalism...get it out!!! Pluralism (Christ AND other "gods")...get it the hell out! His judgement is coming upon you because of your persistent unbelief in the pure and unadulterated inspiration of His Word.
We should pursue people and pray for them BECAUSE they are in hands of the Lord. Jesus said that we should go evangelize BECAUSE ALL AUTHORITY IS HIS! What FOOL made this video?
Sorry about rage but this is no Calvinism.
I hope you repent. Many people might leave faith because of this hogwash video.
Read 'The Dark Side of Calvinism' by George Bryson. A very thourough explanation and refutation of Calvinism. Calvinism is not Biblical it is a false religion that twists the Word of God to fit its wrong headed man devised doctrines. It is a heresy.......that is it is not orthodox. You will be blessed and will understand the problems of Calvinism much better if you do this.
@willpower242 I do. I'm listening to sermons of preachers, all of them turned up to be Calvinists. It is FULLY Biblical. The only way around it is to say that God is not fully sovereign in choosing who gets saved and who doesn't. That is not Biblical.
I don't see any problems in it and this video does not depict a nature of Calvinism but Hyper-Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinism is a heresy. :)
@TeaPartier22 That's like saying that Jehovah Witnesses are right because they also have a thing called logic.
Wrong! Calvinism, if you are really bent on names, is the affirmation of the supremacy of God in all things for the glory of His name and the joy of all people. Anything beyond that is not a Calvinism. "Calvinists" who support the behavior in this video are not Calvinists. I should know, I am one and I will rather die than tell to people "Jesus might have died for you.". Blessings!
@BritneyAddic....then you really dont understand Calvinism......I was a 2 or 3 point Calvinist for over 20 years...I now realize tht it is a man made philosophy loosely based on Scripture. and like every other cult and falsr religion where it disagrees with the Bible..the Bible loses.
Get 'Troubling Questions for Calvinists' by LaGard Smith ..it will clear up a lot of foggy thinking that is Calvinism.
Christs atonement is NOT limited in it's sufficiency..thats what the Bible says.John 1:29
God Purposely creates Men to come into Existance INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure"! If God Makes you Repent, you were ELECTED for Glory! If not, abandone all hope! It'll NEVER HAPPEN!
How BEAUTIFUL are the feet of those Calvinst who preach the good news!
@blakodeel God is a jerk by your beliefs. By traditional Christian teachings, Jesus died for all, so all have the opportunity to be saved. But in your beliefs, he says to himself, "I'll pick him, and her, and him, oh not him..." It doesn't make any sense! How can you believe this stuff when no Christian believed it before Calvin came along?
@oedipusrexsophocles Calvin is well known by it but I wouldn't say no one believed it before him. "Opportunity to be saved" is unbiblical. If Christ died for all, then all are saved which is heresy. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25. If Christ died for all, and they go to Hell, then He didn't save to the uttermost. See also Hebrews 10:14
@blakodeel Jesus died for everyone. That doesn't mean all will be saved, that means everyone has the choice to turn to God and be saved. What kind of God would he be if he only saved certain people and sent the rest to hell? An unjust God, that's what. By your view there is no free will, because no matter what they do, a lot of people are going to hell. And that's a God that would not be good and loving and merciful.
@oedipusrexsophocles Look at what you are saying. You are saying God Almighty has an OBLIGATION to save ANYONE. He didn't give a redemption plan for the demons how much less He is obligated to give one to us. God IS loving and merciful for not sending EVERYONE to Hell. If Jesus Christ saved TO THE UTTERMOST, than all are going to heaven Hebrews 7:25. John 10:26, there are those who are not sheep, the shepherd knows His sheep John 10:14, He doesn't know the goats Matthew 7:23
@blakodeel I didn't say he had an obligation. But it's pointless to worship God if you can't do anything about your fate. That's just it. It's FATE. And with FATE there is no FREE WILL. People in sin can go on sinning. If they're going to hell anyway, there's no reason not to. The Sheep and Goats thing is referring to people on Judgment Day. By that time everyone will have made their CHOICE. Those who choose him are the sheep, those who don't are the goats.
@blakodeel You see, you're basically saying that God has made us play out certain roles and we can do nothing about it. In your view, we are puppets for his amusement, and he chooses to save those he simply likes better. That is not God. The death and resurrection of Christ is entirely pointless is he was only going to save certain people in the first place. So he did this thing which has spawned a worldwide religion just to save a few people? Jesus said to preach to all the nations.
@oedipusrexsophocles count for anything. As far as us being puppets, God used Pharaoh as shown in Romans 9 to glorify Himself. I supposed we could reduce Pharaoh's role in God's plan as being a puppet or the prophets being "puppets" but it would neither be correct nor biblical to caricature in this fashion. God used both Herod, and Pontius Pilate as well as Jews to get Christ arrested in the first place (Acts 4:27-28) and so am I to understand that since God used them that they are mere puppets?
@blakodeel God used them knowing what choices they would make. He didn't actually make them do those things.But in your beliefs there is no free will because those who become Christians did so because God guided them to be, and those who stay away are likewise that way because God doesn't bother about them. As I said before, Jesus said Seek and ye shall find. So if an atheist whom God won't save seeks out God, He won't answer? Or the thought will never occur to him because God doesn't want him?
@oedipusrexsophocles "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:11. None will seek without grace. "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." Romans 9:18. God didn't simply observe what WOULD happen in Act 4:27-28. ...to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. He didn't hold a gun to their head and make them sin, but predestined their choices within their own sin. Read Romans 9.
@blakodeel If God creates someone whom he knows will live a sinful life and he does not choose them in your framework, then He is giving them no choice but to continue sinning. God is all about free will. That's why he lets us sin in the first place, so that choosing him and choosing to become righteous is a meaningful choice. Someone sins, God doesn't make it possible for them to be saved, they have no choice but to continue sinning since they can't/won't seek God. That's not free will!
@oedipusrexsophocles Because we are slaves to sin, that's our "free" will. "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;" Ephesians 2:1. We can't choose God on our own, and left to our "free" will we would all die and go to Hell. Thank God He stopped my "free" will, because choosing Him is His work. Every good and perfect gift is from above...Jm 1:17 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God; Eph 2:8. Where's God's free will??
@blakodeel (cont'd) And preaching to all nations is futile unless all can be saved. Why preach at all? God's going to save who he will and not who he will not, by your view. There is no point in spreading the gospel, in that case. The earliest Christians did not believe this nonsense. It simply doesn't make sense. Jesus said seek and ye shall find. What you believe means that people can seek and God will ignore them. Which would mean Jesus essentially lied to everyone.
@oedipusrexsophocles No one seeks after God before God gives them grace Romans 3:11, so a person CAN NOT find God without the Holy Spirit. Seek and ye shall find, those that truly seek after Him, God has given saving grace. "The death and resurrection of Christ is entirely pointless [if] he was only going to save certain people in the first place." Er... No. The atonement was pointless if Jesus atoned for people that would later go to Hell. Only in perfectly saving the sheep, does the atonement
@help4343 let's cut-to-the-chase... In Calvinism, God Purposely Decreeds for Man to come into Existance DEAD, INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the vast majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure" with a ZERO chance of Salvation.
JUSTICE is nonexistant in Calvinism, just a COSMIC TYRANT.
Yeah. It's two groups: the saved and the unsaved. The Bible clearly explains how to be saved, and if you believe that, that's all that matters! I will say I admire you guys for being so passionate, but we need to be sure we only divide over the important stuff.
This is what I believe. We all agree that when God created Adam, Adam had free will. I believe when God created Adam, God knew Adam would sin. I believe God did not MAKE Adam sin, rather ALLOWED him to sin. We were all in Adam when Adam sinned. We are condemned to Hell because we CHOOSE to sin, not because God made us sin. We were all in Adam when Adam had the FREE WILL to choose between God and sin. God knew all of this, and decreed that He will save only SOME of us.
@rainbowcicak Grace is completely undeserved. Even the act of saying "yes" removes the free part of it. Salvation belongs to all because of Jesus' sacrifice.
@whatthehellbook Salvation belongs to all whom Jesus was sacrificed for.
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." Eph 1:3-7
@whatthehellbook Yes, and are the elect not sinners too ? The elect are sinners, and that is why Jesus died for the elect so that they can be made clean and righteous.
@whatthehellbook 10% ? None of us would know. What is certain is that He didn't die for every single person that ever lived. However when we preach the gospel, we preach it as it is. The same gospel that Paul preaches. Not "God MIGHT have died for you." We preach the gospel as it is, the elect will listen and repent, the non elect would not and think of it as foolishness. Who is the elect, and who is not we do not know. Our job is to only preach to everyone and let God draw His sheep to himself.
@rainbowcicak I thought Love never failed? And it is only around 10% since about 90% of people don't profess Christ as Savior. Jesus' sacrifice was pretty small if that's the case. God didn't do a very good job of redeeming mankind.
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
@whatthehellbook Yes. 1 Timothy is stating a fact. God is the saviour of all people. All people that are saved is because God is their saviour. Was God's purpose to redeem mankind in your context ? God's purpose was to have MERCY and GRACE to the already condemned. And because He only chooses who He wants to save when we are UNDESERVING based on His own sovereign will, that is only where grace comes in.
@whatthehellbook You say God didn't do a very good job of redeeming mankind if he were to save a few. Rather, it shows that God is sovereign. It is not that God tried to save all, but ended up saving a few. God CHOSE to save only some. He determines how MANY he wants to save. Who are you to question your maker on how many he should save so that He fits your description as "God did a good job in redeeming mankind." ?
@rainbowcicak God c hose to create us, we didn't ask to be born. So did He choose to create us, only to torture the majority of His prized creation for all of eternity? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
@whatthehellbook Maybe you'd like to go over Romans 5? How about Colossians 1:20? John 12:31-32? I mean it doesn't matter because context is going to kill anything you say.
@whatthehellbook That is a good question. However scripture reveals to us that God is sovereign, but He still holds men accountable for their sins. How is that possible ? It's a mystery. It is a tension that we cannot resolve with our human minds. There comes a point where we try to understand the best of what scripture reveals to us, and the rest we have to accept by faith. If we could understand how the things of God works, we would be God himself. We can't understand everything.
@help4343 Yeah, don't bother believing in the Trinity either. There's a difference between contradiction, and tension. Clearly you can't distinguish the difference. The trinity concept for example is a tension, but we accept it by faith although we can't understand it. Why ? Because that is what scripture reveals to us. You take the scripture as it is, try to understand it to the best you can, and there will be a point where the things of God cannot be comprehended. Then it is by faith.
Faith in what? Why would I have faith in a flawed book and in an evil God that could save everyone, but choses to save only a few and leaves everyone else to be tortured forever? I don't believe in total depravity, but the minds that came up with TULIP were certainly depraved.
@help4343 Are you a Christian ? If you are not going to believe in the Bible, then I wish you all the best believing in a God of your own image and liking. Maybe you'll like to believe God is a loving God who can grant all your wishes ? Oh wait, the Bible doesn't say that ? GOD IS EVIL THEN, I DON'T LIKE THIS GOD. So go ahead, follow the God of your own image. If you don't believe in the Bible, then there's no point talking.
No, I don't want to believe in a man made god. Not only is the Bible self- contradictary, it contradicts itself on the attributes of god. Logic tells us that two contradictary cannot both be true. Therefor the God of the Bible can't be reality and must be man made. Therefore I can't believe in the God of the Bible.
"If you don't believe in the Bible, then there's no point talking."
Even if I did believe in the Bible what would be the point of you, as a Calvinist, talking to me? If I was one of the elect God's irresistible grace would draw me to the correct understanding, and I would be saved regardless if you talked to me about the Bible or not. if I was not, I would be damned regardless if you talked to me or not.
@help4343 Because I'm a Calvinist, all the more I have to talk to you ! I do not know how God will save you. Maybe God will save you through my 140th comment posted to you ? Or maybe God will use someone else to reach to you. But this are not issues that you have to be concern about, the real issue is whether you believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you know the full gospel of Jesus ? If you don't I can share it with you as many times as you want me to. Please don't be afraid to ask.
But isn't this salvation you speak of hallow? How could one be happy in heaven while knowing that they were only put their arbitiarily, and knowing that some of their loved ones are in hell arbitarially? How could they feel justice has been done while knowing that their was nothing that they did that merited being treated better than the ones being punished?
It seems like the only rational response to the TULIP doctrine is to either not take it seriously, or to regard it as an evil doctrine with an evil god.
@whatthehellbook Why did you quote 1 Tim.4:10 when that passage doesn't have anything to do with salvation? Is that a prooftext? Have you done any exegesis on that passage? Of course you haven't. Would you like me to? See, the word "savior" as it's used in this passage means "preserver". Paul is telling Timothy not to worry about physical needs because God provides those for all men, especially those who believe. Didn't we discuss this already?
Yes, He said he had other sheep meaning other believers, those whom He was not speaking to at that moment. Other sheep, but not goats.... or the devil's children which he called the Jews that mocked him. He left no wiggle room for you Arminians to make the claims that you make. He said very clearly that the Father gave him His sheep to save, chosen before the foundation of the world, like Jacob and Esau, before we had made any decisions, good or bad. He chose us and He saved us.
The video was funny although not accurate. For all you who say calvinism is sick and twisted enjoy ephesians 1,2, john 6,10,17 and romans 8 and romans 9.
Calvinism is sick & twisted to suggest God would actually choose to create people and punish them in Hell for all of eternity. He tells us to love our enemies. Would He turn around and torture His forever?
@whatthehellbook Maybe, maybe not. But the scripture is clear that God shows partiality in who He loves and who He doesn't love....just the same as you and I do. but you say that God is abovehumans, yes, that is true and He could have chose to save everyone but He didn't. God has the right to share His Spirit with whom He please or with no one. We should not question it. Just accept it or you deny most of what the scriptures say and you call Jesus a liar. Read John, chap. 10, verse 11 -18.
@JesusIsTheOneWay 1 John 2:2- He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
Romans 11:32- For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
@whatthehellbook " who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.". If Jesus is the Savior of "all people as well as believers" then why did he call those Jews who mocked him were "children of the devil"? - John, chapter 8, verse 42 - 47. If he knew he was going to the cross to save them wouldn't he have called them children of God, along with the believers? Yes, fact is he wasn't saving them. He was dying FOR HIS SHEEP, not the others. He said, I pray for my sheep.
@JesusIsTheOneWay Paul said it, not me. It's like saying, "track is for everyone, especially those who like to run." Jesus also said in John 10 that He has other sheep He must bring with Him also.... Gotta read everything and seek truth; not defend what we've been taught as truth. There's a big difference.
John 10:14-16- “I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. So I sacrifice my life for the sheep. I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.
@JesusIsTheOneWay John 12:30-32- Then Jesus told them, “The voice was for your benefit, not mine. The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”
@whatthehellbook But he doesn't draw "everyone" to himself. Everyone chosen by the Father, yes, but not every person that ever lived. Not Hitler, not stalin, not Judas Iscariot, not Pilate, not the Jews who mocked him and he called the devil's children.
@JesusIsTheOneWay You can't change the Scriptures because they don't fit your theology. They say what they say and we accept that. Why are you changing what they say?
@whatthehellbook You must read scripture in it's context. Words have different meanings the way they are used. If you were to address an audience and say "I want to thank everyone for coming here tonight". You would mean everyone who is there, not everyone in the entire world. "World" also has different meaning depending how it's used. It's context. But if you read the scriptures you cannot miss what he said about the Father giving him people that will be drawn to Him.
@whatthehellbook JesusIsTheOneWay is right my friend. John 3:16 says "For God so love the WORLD, that he send ....." Now hear this. When I say "That singer is so famous, the whole WORLD knows him.", am I saying EVERY SINGLE PERSON that's living in the world ? Or people all over the world ? It's the context my friend, you'll find that John 3:16 is still in harmony with the reformed view.
@whatthehellbook A person is not condemned to hell because God decreed him to go to hell WITHOUT SINS. A person is condemned to hell because of his sins. All of us were condemned to hell only because of our sins. However, God decreed that he will save SOME of us because of His mercy and grace. That is only why we can fall on our knees and thank God for His grace upon us, when we are so undeserving of it. That is the beauty of the doctrine of grace.
But as many as have received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. (John 1:12) ~ To have received Him means to associate with Him as His companion or attendant, to give Him access to yourself, to regard His power, not to refuse or reject Him, to choose Him. The word right in the NKJV I use, is power in the KJV. It also means power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases, permission. That's our free will given to us by God.
@boldforjesus First lets get this straight. All of us have free will, except that our free will is TAINTED with sin. Romans say that the natural man WILL NOT seek God, and have turned away from God, and the natural man HATES God. Are you telling me a man with this kind of cruel, deceitful heart full of sin, will choose the things of God based on his free will that's already been tainted by sin ? NEVER. We can never choose God ON OUR OWN. God has to work in us first and give us a new heart.
@rainbowcicak Your pride stinks! You got nothing straight. You spit on the word of God I gave you. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. A lost person hears the word of God that they will go to hell unless they repent and get born again. So they choose Jesus Christ to give Him access to their life to change it. Face what John 1:12 says or continue to spit on the word of God because of your lying Calvinism pride.
@boldforjesus When I said lets get this straight, I meant the part where I was talking about all our free will that is tainted with sin. Hold your horses buddy. You are right, only those who receive him and believe in Him will become children of God. So how does this contradict the reform view ? I do not spit on the word of God, rather I uphold it and study it without being biased. If this is what SCRIPTURE TELLS ME, even though I cannot FULLY COMPREHEND it, I choose to accept it.
@boldforjesus "So they choose Jesus Christ to give Him access to their life to change it." You chose Jesus Christ ? "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last." John 15:16. Scripture speaks for itself my friend.
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44 You claim that you chose God. Scripture speaks otherwise. God chose you first, then only you chose God.
@rainbowcicak You twist the word of God. Jesus was talking to His disciples when He said that He choose them not them He. Re: Him drawing us, Jesus said, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL peoples to Myself." - John 12:32. So he draws everyone to be saved, but most will still go to hell (Matthew 7:13,14).
@boldforjesus I twist the word of God ? Woah, be careful with your mouth my friend. Yes, Jesus are talking to His disciples. So what did Jesus mean ? Jesus is saying that the disciples did not choose to follow Jesus, rather Jesus was the one that appointed them to follow him. In other words, they did not choose to follow Jesus out on their own free will, Jesus was the one that appointed them to "choose" to follow Him.
@boldforjesus I can explain to you, but youtube character limit just isn't enough. So I invite you to read this, and please do. This pretty much sums up everything about that verse. .effectualgrace[.][c][om]/2010/11/26/understanding-john-1232/ Remove brackets.
@boldforjesus To be so bold to accuse someone of spitting on the word of God, I sure worry for you. You sound exactly like the Pharisees who accuse Jesus of slanderous things when Jesus was preaching. Rather if I were you, I would uphold any opinions that another person may have, and consider it. If it is harmony with scripture, then by all means I would support you. If it is not, I would confront you about it. Rather my friend, it is your pride that stinks.
The answer is in the parable of the weat and the tares. Demon spirits were sown into the generations of men. Christ only died for true human beings. Those that have the God breated soul vs, the demon breathed souls. Both are sinners but only true humans get mercy. Remember hell was prepared for the devil and his angels... so... no ture human goes there.
@arc08807 "Wouldn't you feel bad if one of the elect didn't get saved because you didn't preach?"
Impossible. A PREDESTINED "vessel of mercy prepared BEFOREHAND for Glory", is ALREADY identified and fashioned as a "Sheep" in the Reformed view of ELECTION, though having NEVER REPENTED, based on their teachings of Jn.10:26-- this being the case-- they WILL BE SAVED regardless of their "repentance" since Matt.25:33 declares the "Sheep" being seperated FOR ETERNAL LIFE apart from the Goats.
WHEN is an individual GUILTY & Deserving of being Burned?
According to the CONSISTENT Reformed view of Rom.9, Man is FATED for either HEAVEN or HELL, since "BEFORE having done ANYTHING. Either good or bad in order that Gods purpose of ELECTION might continue..."
Man doesn't Burn for "his sins", he's DAMNED to the Lake of Fire because of Gods SOVEREIGN WILL & DECREE, for "His good pleasure" to "glorify Himself".
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
@kb9ylu If you believe in Jesus and love Him, then what you say is absolutely true and all Calvinists would affirm that. In fact, we (along with the Bible) would say that the only reason you love and believe in Jesus is because He died for you on Calvary. So you can rest in His finished work!
actually, the real funny thing is, when the guy said "how is that good news" about the "calvinist" saying Jesus may love you. Calvinists wouldn't say that. And Arminians have even less good news. they just say, jesus loves you all the way...to which the non-believer replies...then why should I beleive? he already loves me...
@Follower172 That makes no sense whatsoever. According to calvinism, one believes only if one is predestrined to believe. Preaching, praying, readin scripture is all irrelevant to getting saved or not. So yes, the 'good news' of Calvinism is anything but good news. It's fatalistic brain-pollution.
As a Calvinist, I think the video is funny, if indeed it is only light hearted humor. But the statements being made in here are completely inappropriate. Straw men, ad hoc, down right misrepresentation of reformed theology. If a person is dead, and God raises him to new life (irressistable grace) then how is that a) forcing himself on them and b) how can a dead person "choose" to follow anything? Too many Kerrigan Skelly fans in here. private im if you want to talk
@Follower172 I'm glad you found it funny. It is only intended as good fun with my Calvinist brothers / sisters in Christ. I also agree with you about the comments. I stopped trying to keep up with them all a while ago. There are a lot of non-Calvinists that have posted here that have deeper issues than theology.
@Follower172 I'm also a Calvinist who enjoyed this video. See, we Calvinists DO have a sense of humor! Still, the doctrine he presented isn't a straw man or ad hoc. The Bible tells us that those whom God elected will be saved, and that that election was made before we were born. The rest will burn for their sins. Jesus told us to preach the gospel because we are the means by which some elect get saved. Wouldn't you feel bad if one of the elect didn't get saved because you didn't preach?
@acr08807 I am not the only means that God would use. and If someone is elect, then they will be saved, by the exact means that god decreed. So if I failed to preach, and they weren't led to Christ because of me, then they would be led to Christ by another means.
@Follower172 Great, so we agree. Christians need to preach the Gospel, because, if one of us fails, then the elect still will get saved by hearing another.
I'm not a Calvinist, but that video is a distortion of Calvinism. It ignores Calvin's teaching on man's responsibility. God's sovereign predestination does not rule out our responsibility to God in the slightest, any more than the infinite Life of God prevents our being alive. On the contrary, the Life of God makes possible our own life and that of all other creatures.
@Follower172 Thank you so much for standing up for us reformed believers ( believers of the bible)! I cant stand Kerigan Skelly him and I have had discussions before I proved him wrong several times and now am blocked from him lol looks like the holy spirit convicted him! oh well GOD BLESS BROTHER!
I love how us reformers cant preach the good news! FALSE WE CAN! lol learn what Jesus says "my sheep are spread out through all the world you dont know who they are but they are chosen and you must speak and God ( only god the father) will draw whom he has chosen to come near him" Please read your bible very very carefully God bless
@ghosthunter5656 Amen to that ! You have people that still doesn't understand that. They can't understand why Jesus gives a "general call of repentance" to everyone and sends His disciples to preach to everyone, when Jesus never died for the reprobate in the first place. That is exactly the point, because ONLY THE FATHER knows who are His sheep, and who is not. We do not know, therefore we MUST preach to EVERYONE and let GOD himself draw His SHEEP to Jesus.
@zebb1111 there's a major differnce between "none being good" & humanity being "Totally Depraved". Like DEAD puppets with their strings cut-off by the Puppeteer, commanded to move, then burned forever for not moving o show His "Justice", is your Heretical garbage of Total Depravity.
calvinism is for helping to sear scripturally ignorant low caliber types to either remain in the pseudo error following the pipers scattered about - or to awake out of it but humiliated by realizing how theyre exposed as a person who got sucked into it angered by their embarrassment of being exposed as the moron they are lashing back at god by becomin an evolutionist/atheist ..just as the low caliber traits a moron usually reacts ,calvy peeps are funny..idiots..its hard not to laugh at'em
BTW, John Owen said more about 'God's hatred' as well: "We deny that all mankind are the object of that love of God which moved him to send his Son to die; God having 'made some for the day of evil [...] Reprobation [is] the issue of hatred, or a purpose of rejection." Works of J. Owen, Vol. X., p. 149.
- "It is even biblical to say that God has foreordained sin." Edwin Palmer, The 5 Points of Calvinism, p. 82.
- "God justly wills that sins be committed by us, and indeed absolutely wills that they be commited; nay, procures in time these events himself" Calvinist theologian John Piscator (1546-1625), in A. Newman: "A Manual of Church History Vol. II", p. 338.
Well, if some here wants to be honest and not a man follower, for you own benefit, read this: Segredo de Deus - Mt 10:26; Mc 4:22; Lc 8:17; 12:2; Jo 18:20; Cl 1:26.
@tennesseeOwnsMyBones... Calvinist teach that because of Adams Sin, God PURPOSELY manufactures DEAD babies in the womb, preprogrammed to Sin & Only Sin, lacking ALL ability to repent or beg for mercy, the VAST majority of ALL Humanity HATED by Him & FASHIONED for the Lake of Fire "BEFORE having done anything either good or bad", "in order to make known the riches of His Glory for vessels of mercy (an ELECT few) which He had prepared BEFOREHAND for GLORY!!" While simultaneously Decreeing ALL Sin.
@apollos6640 the fact that none are good seems to boggle your mind. so? whats so good about you? you accepted the Lord while others didn't? that makes you something secial? wheres the Grace?
sounds like works. AND can only lead to no assurance.
If I choose God, I can chose to no longer love God.
where does the loss of salvation become possible when Jesus is the shepard of his flock?
ST-John says that the proof that they were not truly Christians is that they left the church.
The main problem of calvinism, aside the fact that is turns God into the author of sin, is that it is completely misanthropic and therefore often loveless. Why care for your fellow human beings when your god himself doesn't even want to. Remember: in calvinism, god has willfully and explicitly created people for damning them. If god hates most of his own creation with such passion - as we are told that only few are elect - why should human suffering spur us into action to relieve it.
@rpavich That is the standard reply I get from calvinists. Sorry, I'm not impressed. Come back to me with arguments from Calvin's Institution, his Defensio, his Bible Commentary to prove me wrong. You can't. As this is what Calvin ultimately taught: supralapsarianism in its most rigid form.
@rpavich 1.) Nothing happens outside of God's will, per Calvin. Therefore, sin, too, is willed by the calvinist god. Adding the lame ad hoc disclaimer that it doesn't, does not change this fact. 2.) Per Calvin, the reprobates have been hated by God before they were even created; therefore it is misanthropic and loveless. 3.) God only cares for the elect, per Calvin. 4.) God has indeed done so. Read Calvin's "On the Eternal Predestination of God" 5.) It appears he does, as we are, per Calvin,
undeserving of God's love and mercy. The elect are only chosen out of sheer random pleasure, they do not 'deserve' God's affection, they are merely granted it. 6) As Augustinian before him, Calvin too was of the disposition that most humans belonged to the reprobate.
It's all in Calvin's Institution, rpavich. Have you read it?
@rpavich Also: did the god of calvinism predestine some to eternal damnation and some to eternal life before the foundation of the world, and time itself? If you say: Yes, because he foreknew who would believe, you're an Arminian. If you say: No, it is up to each man to make his own destiny, you are a Catholic. If you are a Calvinist, you can only say: Yes, he did, and he did so out of hid own good pleasure, without regard for any future acts of his creatures.
@rpavich As for Calvinist materials. From John Owen (Puritan calvinist): "Calvin taught that God loved the elect and planned their holiness and salvation while on the other hand, he hated the reprobate and planned their sin and damnation."
@zebbb1111 you've been indoctrinated by the Devil. Your systematic beliefs are unbiblical & full of contradictions. Answer me this;
Why does God send out a "General Calling" of repentance to DEAD sinners whom been predestined for the Lake of Fire, purposely fashioned For destruction "Before having done anything either good or bad",who Jesus NEVER died for? For WHAT purpose!?
This gets pretty old, by the way. "The myths of calvinism"? Just by adding the ad hoc disclaimer that somehow supralapsarianism (which is what calvinism always boils down to) does not make God the author of sin is NOT a valid arguement.
I'm pretty sure that it was jesus who said "lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil". nuff said on this subject....argue with Jesus you who dont understand the total depravity of man and think him capable of salvation by works......"accepting" jesus is a work if it comes from us. we are to depraved to save ourselves. It is the Father who reveals the Son to us.
This video merely points out the thought processes that might enter a mans mind if they found a Calvinist witnessing to them. It's just hard to wrap people's minds around God and "predestination" it is a BAD starting point.
Just say "by grace you are saved" but do not mention the rest yet heheheheh.
"I can never join Calvin in addressing his god... [...] The being described in his five points is not the God whom you and I acknowledge and adore, the Creator and benevolent governor of the world; but a daemon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes [given him by] Calvin." Thomas Jefferson.
what kind of little god sits around waiting for someone to "accept him into his heart" My God accepts me and not the other way around. what assurance we can have.
@zebb1111 Yes, your god accepts you. He also arbitrarily chose to not accept others. That makes calvinism sick. But I understand how nothing really matters as long as you belong to the Elect Club.
@zebb1111 Haven't I? You wanna test this? Where do you want to start? The Institution? The commentaries? The Defensio? Or perhaps the works of his successor Beza? I say: bring it on.
@changeishere2008 this is a cartoon, calvin, represents the research and study of hundreds of reform theologians. llike the westminister confession of faith was created by a large body of protestant teachers. it wasnt invented by some lone agent deciding to start a new denomination like methodism. If your afraid to let God be God and let him decide the way he wants, its because you dont trust him.
im glad im saved through his choice, because humans always change their minds.
@ForeverResplendent You can sugar coat calvinism as much as you want, and heap as much superlatives on it - preferably of the biblical kind - as you want, the logical end result of calvinism remains that the calvinist god itself is the author of sin. This notion of God willing, nay, PREORDAINING sin and evil to enter the world, is an affront to the character of God.
@ForeverResplendent Pure reasoned logic, calvinist style: Before the foundation of the world, the calvinist god, on a sheer whim, decided to write up an 'OK' and 'Void'-list of creatures he was going to create. He then created the world, and decided that his creatures were to have an evil, irresponsible and sinful nature. After his creatures have done what their creator instilled them to do, the calvinist god gets angry with them, blaming them for being evil, irresponisble and sinful.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones another person who never read Calvin and got his doctrine from an antiCalvinist who couldnt understand Calvin. arguing with the potter about how one was made. predestinationn was not a Calvinist invention. st-paul uses the term several times. and Jesus told peter that it was not on his own but our Father in heaven who revealed that Jesus was the Christ to Peter.
read your bible and then debate Calvin or ST-Paul wichever you want.
@zebb1111 Again: you want to debate this? Bring it on. We will see how 'shallow' my knowledge of Calvin and his theology is. Let's take it to the stage.
@zebb1111 Excuse me, I believe your first comment to me was about my supposed ignorance on this matter. I have heard calvinists use this excuse a million times. I have read Calvin. And Beza. And Piscator. And Gomarus. Don't tell me 'I don't get it', I get it.
@ForeverResplendent Arminianism did not rise as a movement to further the cause of 'human ability' where salvation is concerned. Arminianism rose out of the very righteous complaint that Five-Point Calvinism turned God into the author of sin and placed the blame for sin and evil not on the shoulders of mankind, but one the One True Living God, who is the Light. Most calvinists have no idea what Arminius actually taught. Nor Pelagius, for that matter.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones You do realize that the 5 points of Calinism came out as a response to the 5 points of Arminianism. Pelagius taught jusification by works, and the main points of Arminius was partial depravity of man, conditonal election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, and perserverance of some saints. I ask you this, if Jesus died for all sins of everyone does that mean no one is in hell?
@ryno200 Yes, I do realize that. In fact, The Synod of Dordrecht - which you are refering to - also condemned supralapsarianism, funny enough. It is evident you haven't read anything by Pelagius himself, for stating that he simply taught justification through works is severely misrepresenting his theology. Read Pelagius' commentary on Romans. And yes, I believe Christ's sacrifice has the power to redeem all of mankind.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones So, then no one is going to hell then? Because if Christ died for the sins of all mankind then, there is no punishment for any man and God cannot justly send anyone to hell. The argument boils down to is the nature of man basically good or evil prior to conversion. Pelagius rightly asserts that sin is willful hatred and contempt of God, by I believe he falls in error when he says we must merely try harder to be good, where is Christ in that?
@ryno200 That depends. If you are a calvinist, and if you are consistent, you would have to agree that man's sinful nature was preordained by the calvinist god. Where is the justice? Pelagius believed, and I concur, that mankind is NOT inherently evil. To say it is, is to say that every baby that is born is as much a vessel of iniquity as the adult sinner who has come to the age of understanding.
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones we onlty care about what Jesus and the apostles taught. Predestination is the mystery of the ages. predestined by foreknowledge is the same thing as double predestination. in acting on his foreknowledge God made himself the author of all that is to pass and all that did pass. his omniscience requires his omnipresence in all things. it would seem to me that those that oppose the doctrine, dont want to let God be God. I could be wrong. im just a depraved sinner.
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willpower242 1 week ago
I'm glad you posted this video. WAKE UP CHURCH! You have SO MANY STUPID DOCTRINES! Get the leaven out! Calvinism...get it out! Arminianism...get it out! Denominations...get them out! Elevating the office of pastor...get it out! Dead ritual...get it out! Dispensationalism...get it out!!! Pluralism (Christ AND other "gods")...get it the hell out! His judgement is coming upon you because of your persistent unbelief in the pure and unadulterated inspiration of His Word.
andrewdreiling11 1 week ago
@andrewdreiling11 .........ummm ......YOU get out.......take your unrighteous anger and leave........
willpower242 1 week ago
@willpower242 Friend, I have much unrighteous anger, this is true. But from what I said above...rebuke me from His Word, and I'll thank you.
andrewdreiling11 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@andrewdreiling11 ....OK.....Eph 4:6.....James 1:19-27.....better?
willpower242 1 week ago
@andrewdreiling11 ....you said.....' I have much unrighteous anger, this is true. '
I say......then repent.
willpower242 1 week ago
@andrewdreiling11 How is dispensationalism wrong? I'm honestly just having trouble making that connection in my thinking. Just a question.
L0VEalive 2 days ago
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harvestsoulfly 1 week ago
This is NOT Calvinism!
End of story!
This is demonic, satanic and offensive!
This is in fact Hyper Calvinism!
Dear, dear... I can't believe this. *facedesk*
We should pursue people and pray for them BECAUSE they are in hands of the Lord. Jesus said that we should go evangelize BECAUSE ALL AUTHORITY IS HIS! What FOOL made this video?
Sorry about rage but this is no Calvinism.
I hope you repent. Many people might leave faith because of this hogwash video.
God bless!
BritneyAddicted4EVA 1 month ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA ....Ummmmm....you dont know much about Calvinism.
2Tim 2:15
Read 'The Dark Side of Calvinism' by George Bryson. A very thourough explanation and refutation of Calvinism. Calvinism is not Biblical it is a false religion that twists the Word of God to fit its wrong headed man devised doctrines. It is a heresy.......that is it is not orthodox. You will be blessed and will understand the problems of Calvinism much better if you do this.
willpower242 1 month ago
@willpower242 I do. I'm listening to sermons of preachers, all of them turned up to be Calvinists. It is FULLY Biblical. The only way around it is to say that God is not fully sovereign in choosing who gets saved and who doesn't. That is not Biblical.
I don't see any problems in it and this video does not depict a nature of Calvinism but Hyper-Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinism is a heresy. :)
Blessings!
BritneyAddicted4EVA 4 weeks ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA Actually, Hyper-Calvinism is Calvinism brought to its logical end.
TeaPartier22 4 weeks ago
@TeaPartier22 That's like saying that Jehovah Witnesses are right because they also have a thing called logic.
Wrong! Calvinism, if you are really bent on names, is the affirmation of the supremacy of God in all things for the glory of His name and the joy of all people. Anything beyond that is not a Calvinism. "Calvinists" who support the behavior in this video are not Calvinists. I should know, I am one and I will rather die than tell to people "Jesus might have died for you.". Blessings!
BritneyAddicted4EVA 4 weeks ago
@BritneyAddic....then you really dont understand Calvinism......I was a 2 or 3 point Calvinist for over 20 years...I now realize tht it is a man made philosophy loosely based on Scripture. and like every other cult and falsr religion where it disagrees with the Bible..the Bible loses.
Get 'Troubling Questions for Calvinists' by LaGard Smith ..it will clear up a lot of foggy thinking that is Calvinism.
Christs atonement is NOT limited in it's sufficiency..thats what the Bible says.John 1:29
willpower242 3 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
@BritneyAddicted4EVA ........you need to check out 'Calvinist Mumbo Jumbo' too......exposes the problems of Calvinism quite well.
Blessings!
willpower242 1 month ago
God Purposely creates Men to come into Existance INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure"! If God Makes you Repent, you were ELECTED for Glory! If not, abandone all hope! It'll NEVER HAPPEN!
How BEAUTIFUL are the feet of those Calvinst who preach the good news!
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago 5
@Isaiah1v18 Sounds like bad news to me.
SpaceAboveSky 1 month ago
Excellent Video :)
PuritansRinHell 2 months ago
What must I do? Calvinist answer... Repent and believe. ya see, we don't know the elect, so we can preach to all.
blakodeel 2 months ago
@blakodeel God is a jerk by your beliefs. By traditional Christian teachings, Jesus died for all, so all have the opportunity to be saved. But in your beliefs, he says to himself, "I'll pick him, and her, and him, oh not him..." It doesn't make any sense! How can you believe this stuff when no Christian believed it before Calvin came along?
oedipusrexsophocles 2 months ago
@oedipusrexsophocles Calvin is well known by it but I wouldn't say no one believed it before him. "Opportunity to be saved" is unbiblical. If Christ died for all, then all are saved which is heresy. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25. If Christ died for all, and they go to Hell, then He didn't save to the uttermost. See also Hebrews 10:14
blakodeel 2 months ago
@blakodeel Jesus died for everyone. That doesn't mean all will be saved, that means everyone has the choice to turn to God and be saved. What kind of God would he be if he only saved certain people and sent the rest to hell? An unjust God, that's what. By your view there is no free will, because no matter what they do, a lot of people are going to hell. And that's a God that would not be good and loving and merciful.
oedipusrexsophocles 2 months ago
@oedipusrexsophocles Look at what you are saying. You are saying God Almighty has an OBLIGATION to save ANYONE. He didn't give a redemption plan for the demons how much less He is obligated to give one to us. God IS loving and merciful for not sending EVERYONE to Hell. If Jesus Christ saved TO THE UTTERMOST, than all are going to heaven Hebrews 7:25. John 10:26, there are those who are not sheep, the shepherd knows His sheep John 10:14, He doesn't know the goats Matthew 7:23
blakodeel 2 months ago
@blakodeel I didn't say he had an obligation. But it's pointless to worship God if you can't do anything about your fate. That's just it. It's FATE. And with FATE there is no FREE WILL. People in sin can go on sinning. If they're going to hell anyway, there's no reason not to. The Sheep and Goats thing is referring to people on Judgment Day. By that time everyone will have made their CHOICE. Those who choose him are the sheep, those who don't are the goats.
oedipusrexsophocles 2 months ago
@blakodeel You see, you're basically saying that God has made us play out certain roles and we can do nothing about it. In your view, we are puppets for his amusement, and he chooses to save those he simply likes better. That is not God. The death and resurrection of Christ is entirely pointless is he was only going to save certain people in the first place. So he did this thing which has spawned a worldwide religion just to save a few people? Jesus said to preach to all the nations.
oedipusrexsophocles 2 months ago
@oedipusrexsophocles count for anything. As far as us being puppets, God used Pharaoh as shown in Romans 9 to glorify Himself. I supposed we could reduce Pharaoh's role in God's plan as being a puppet or the prophets being "puppets" but it would neither be correct nor biblical to caricature in this fashion. God used both Herod, and Pontius Pilate as well as Jews to get Christ arrested in the first place (Acts 4:27-28) and so am I to understand that since God used them that they are mere puppets?
blakodeel 2 months ago
@blakodeel God used them knowing what choices they would make. He didn't actually make them do those things.But in your beliefs there is no free will because those who become Christians did so because God guided them to be, and those who stay away are likewise that way because God doesn't bother about them. As I said before, Jesus said Seek and ye shall find. So if an atheist whom God won't save seeks out God, He won't answer? Or the thought will never occur to him because God doesn't want him?
oedipusrexsophocles 2 months ago
@oedipusrexsophocles "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:11. None will seek without grace. "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." Romans 9:18. God didn't simply observe what WOULD happen in Act 4:27-28. ...to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. He didn't hold a gun to their head and make them sin, but predestined their choices within their own sin. Read Romans 9.
blakodeel 2 months ago
@blakodeel If God creates someone whom he knows will live a sinful life and he does not choose them in your framework, then He is giving them no choice but to continue sinning. God is all about free will. That's why he lets us sin in the first place, so that choosing him and choosing to become righteous is a meaningful choice. Someone sins, God doesn't make it possible for them to be saved, they have no choice but to continue sinning since they can't/won't seek God. That's not free will!
oedipusrexsophocles 2 months ago
@oedipusrexsophocles Because we are slaves to sin, that's our "free" will. "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;" Ephesians 2:1. We can't choose God on our own, and left to our "free" will we would all die and go to Hell. Thank God He stopped my "free" will, because choosing Him is His work. Every good and perfect gift is from above...Jm 1:17 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God; Eph 2:8. Where's God's free will??
blakodeel 2 months ago
@blakodeel (cont'd) And preaching to all nations is futile unless all can be saved. Why preach at all? God's going to save who he will and not who he will not, by your view. There is no point in spreading the gospel, in that case. The earliest Christians did not believe this nonsense. It simply doesn't make sense. Jesus said seek and ye shall find. What you believe means that people can seek and God will ignore them. Which would mean Jesus essentially lied to everyone.
oedipusrexsophocles 2 months ago
@oedipusrexsophocles No one seeks after God before God gives them grace Romans 3:11, so a person CAN NOT find God without the Holy Spirit. Seek and ye shall find, those that truly seek after Him, God has given saving grace. "The death and resurrection of Christ is entirely pointless [if] he was only going to save certain people in the first place." Er... No. The atonement was pointless if Jesus atoned for people that would later go to Hell. Only in perfectly saving the sheep, does the atonement
blakodeel 2 months ago
@help4343 let's cut-to-the-chase... In Calvinism, God Purposely Decreeds for Man to come into Existance DEAD, INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the vast majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure" with a ZERO chance of Salvation.
JUSTICE is nonexistant in Calvinism, just a COSMIC TYRANT.
apollos6640 3 months ago 5
Yeah. It's two groups: the saved and the unsaved. The Bible clearly explains how to be saved, and if you believe that, that's all that matters! I will say I admire you guys for being so passionate, but we need to be sure we only divide over the important stuff.
pianobach13 3 months ago
This is what I believe. We all agree that when God created Adam, Adam had free will. I believe when God created Adam, God knew Adam would sin. I believe God did not MAKE Adam sin, rather ALLOWED him to sin. We were all in Adam when Adam sinned. We are condemned to Hell because we CHOOSE to sin, not because God made us sin. We were all in Adam when Adam had the FREE WILL to choose between God and sin. God knew all of this, and decreed that He will save only SOME of us.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak Grace is completely undeserved. Even the act of saying "yes" removes the free part of it. Salvation belongs to all because of Jesus' sacrifice.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook Salvation belongs to all whom Jesus was sacrificed for.
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." Eph 1:3-7
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. He died for sinners.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook Yes, and are the elect not sinners too ? The elect are sinners, and that is why Jesus died for the elect so that they can be made clean and righteous.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak So He died for 10% of the world?
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook 10% ? None of us would know. What is certain is that He didn't die for every single person that ever lived. However when we preach the gospel, we preach it as it is. The same gospel that Paul preaches. Not "God MIGHT have died for you." We preach the gospel as it is, the elect will listen and repent, the non elect would not and think of it as foolishness. Who is the elect, and who is not we do not know. Our job is to only preach to everyone and let God draw His sheep to himself.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak I thought Love never failed? And it is only around 10% since about 90% of people don't profess Christ as Savior. Jesus' sacrifice was pretty small if that's the case. God didn't do a very good job of redeeming mankind.
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook Yes. 1 Timothy is stating a fact. God is the saviour of all people. All people that are saved is because God is their saviour. Was God's purpose to redeem mankind in your context ? God's purpose was to have MERCY and GRACE to the already condemned. And because He only chooses who He wants to save when we are UNDESERVING based on His own sovereign will, that is only where grace comes in.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook You say God didn't do a very good job of redeeming mankind if he were to save a few. Rather, it shows that God is sovereign. It is not that God tried to save all, but ended up saving a few. God CHOSE to save only some. He determines how MANY he wants to save. Who are you to question your maker on how many he should save so that He fits your description as "God did a good job in redeeming mankind." ?
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak God c hose to create us, we didn't ask to be born. So did He choose to create us, only to torture the majority of His prized creation for all of eternity? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook Maybe you'd like to go over Romans 5? How about Colossians 1:20? John 12:31-32? I mean it doesn't matter because context is going to kill anything you say.
Gen0sphere 3 months ago
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rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook That is a good question. However scripture reveals to us that God is sovereign, but He still holds men accountable for their sins. How is that possible ? It's a mystery. It is a tension that we cannot resolve with our human minds. There comes a point where we try to understand the best of what scripture reveals to us, and the rest we have to accept by faith. If we could understand how the things of God works, we would be God himself. We can't understand everything.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak
In other words, don't bother thinking about it. Contradiction in scripture is just God working in mysterious ways. Got to love Theology.
help4343 3 months ago
@help4343 Yeah, don't bother believing in the Trinity either. There's a difference between contradiction, and tension. Clearly you can't distinguish the difference. The trinity concept for example is a tension, but we accept it by faith although we can't understand it. Why ? Because that is what scripture reveals to us. You take the scripture as it is, try to understand it to the best you can, and there will be a point where the things of God cannot be comprehended. Then it is by faith.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak
Faith in what? Why would I have faith in a flawed book and in an evil God that could save everyone, but choses to save only a few and leaves everyone else to be tortured forever? I don't believe in total depravity, but the minds that came up with TULIP were certainly depraved.
help4343 3 months ago
@help4343 Are you a Christian ? If you are not going to believe in the Bible, then I wish you all the best believing in a God of your own image and liking. Maybe you'll like to believe God is a loving God who can grant all your wishes ? Oh wait, the Bible doesn't say that ? GOD IS EVIL THEN, I DON'T LIKE THIS GOD. So go ahead, follow the God of your own image. If you don't believe in the Bible, then there's no point talking.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak
No, I don't want to believe in a man made god. Not only is the Bible self- contradictary, it contradicts itself on the attributes of god. Logic tells us that two contradictary cannot both be true. Therefor the God of the Bible can't be reality and must be man made. Therefore I can't believe in the God of the Bible.
help4343 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak
"If you don't believe in the Bible, then there's no point talking."
Even if I did believe in the Bible what would be the point of you, as a Calvinist, talking to me? If I was one of the elect God's irresistible grace would draw me to the correct understanding, and I would be saved regardless if you talked to me about the Bible or not. if I was not, I would be damned regardless if you talked to me or not.
help4343 3 months ago
@help4343 Because I'm a Calvinist, all the more I have to talk to you ! I do not know how God will save you. Maybe God will save you through my 140th comment posted to you ? Or maybe God will use someone else to reach to you. But this are not issues that you have to be concern about, the real issue is whether you believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you know the full gospel of Jesus ? If you don't I can share it with you as many times as you want me to. Please don't be afraid to ask.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak
But isn't this salvation you speak of hallow? How could one be happy in heaven while knowing that they were only put their arbitiarily, and knowing that some of their loved ones are in hell arbitarially? How could they feel justice has been done while knowing that their was nothing that they did that merited being treated better than the ones being punished?
help4343 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak
It seems like the only rational response to the TULIP doctrine is to either not take it seriously, or to regard it as an evil doctrine with an evil god.
help4343 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook Why did you quote 1 Tim.4:10 when that passage doesn't have anything to do with salvation? Is that a prooftext? Have you done any exegesis on that passage? Of course you haven't. Would you like me to? See, the word "savior" as it's used in this passage means "preserver". Paul is telling Timothy not to worry about physical needs because God provides those for all men, especially those who believe. Didn't we discuss this already?
Gen0sphere 3 months ago
John Calvin = anti-Christ.
nickacil 3 months ago
Yes, He said he had other sheep meaning other believers, those whom He was not speaking to at that moment. Other sheep, but not goats.... or the devil's children which he called the Jews that mocked him. He left no wiggle room for you Arminians to make the claims that you make. He said very clearly that the Father gave him His sheep to save, chosen before the foundation of the world, like Jacob and Esau, before we had made any decisions, good or bad. He chose us and He saved us.
JesusIsTheOneWay 3 months ago
Thats not legit. God Bless.
CoachFogg 4 months ago
The video was funny although not accurate. For all you who say calvinism is sick and twisted enjoy ephesians 1,2, john 6,10,17 and romans 8 and romans 9.
piershotmailcom 4 months ago
Calvinism is sick & twisted to suggest God would actually choose to create people and punish them in Hell for all of eternity. He tells us to love our enemies. Would He turn around and torture His forever?
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 4 months ago
@whatthehellbook Maybe, maybe not. But the scripture is clear that God shows partiality in who He loves and who He doesn't love....just the same as you and I do. but you say that God is abovehumans, yes, that is true and He could have chose to save everyone but He didn't. God has the right to share His Spirit with whom He please or with no one. We should not question it. Just accept it or you deny most of what the scriptures say and you call Jesus a liar. Read John, chap. 10, verse 11 -18.
JesusIsTheOneWay 3 months ago
@JesusIsTheOneWay 1 John 2:2- He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
Romans 11:32- For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
1 Timothy 4:10- This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook " who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.". If Jesus is the Savior of "all people as well as believers" then why did he call those Jews who mocked him were "children of the devil"? - John, chapter 8, verse 42 - 47. If he knew he was going to the cross to save them wouldn't he have called them children of God, along with the believers? Yes, fact is he wasn't saving them. He was dying FOR HIS SHEEP, not the others. He said, I pray for my sheep.
JesusIsTheOneWay 3 months ago
@JesusIsTheOneWay Paul said it, not me. It's like saying, "track is for everyone, especially those who like to run." Jesus also said in John 10 that He has other sheep He must bring with Him also.... Gotta read everything and seek truth; not defend what we've been taught as truth. There's a big difference.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
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JesusIsTheOneWay 3 months ago
@JesusIsTheOneWay
John 10:14-16- “I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me, just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. So I sacrifice my life for the sheep. I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@JesusIsTheOneWay John 12:30-32- Then Jesus told them, “The voice was for your benefit, not mine. The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out. And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook But he doesn't draw "everyone" to himself. Everyone chosen by the Father, yes, but not every person that ever lived. Not Hitler, not stalin, not Judas Iscariot, not Pilate, not the Jews who mocked him and he called the devil's children.
JesusIsTheOneWay 3 months ago
@JesusIsTheOneWay You can't change the Scriptures because they don't fit your theology. They say what they say and we accept that. Why are you changing what they say?
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook You must read scripture in it's context. Words have different meanings the way they are used. If you were to address an audience and say "I want to thank everyone for coming here tonight". You would mean everyone who is there, not everyone in the entire world. "World" also has different meaning depending how it's used. It's context. But if you read the scriptures you cannot miss what he said about the Father giving him people that will be drawn to Him.
JesusIsTheOneWay 3 months ago
@JesusIsTheOneWay That may sound good to fit your theology but it doesn't support what the Scriptures actually say.
whatthehellbook 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook JesusIsTheOneWay is right my friend. John 3:16 says "For God so love the WORLD, that he send ....." Now hear this. When I say "That singer is so famous, the whole WORLD knows him.", am I saying EVERY SINGLE PERSON that's living in the world ? Or people all over the world ? It's the context my friend, you'll find that John 3:16 is still in harmony with the reformed view.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@whatthehellbook A person is not condemned to hell because God decreed him to go to hell WITHOUT SINS. A person is condemned to hell because of his sins. All of us were condemned to hell only because of our sins. However, God decreed that he will save SOME of us because of His mercy and grace. That is only why we can fall on our knees and thank God for His grace upon us, when we are so undeserving of it. That is the beauty of the doctrine of grace.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
But as many as have received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. (John 1:12) ~ To have received Him means to associate with Him as His companion or attendant, to give Him access to yourself, to regard His power, not to refuse or reject Him, to choose Him. The word right in the NKJV I use, is power in the KJV. It also means power of choice, liberty of doing as one pleases, permission. That's our free will given to us by God.
boldforjesus 4 months ago
@boldforjesus First lets get this straight. All of us have free will, except that our free will is TAINTED with sin. Romans say that the natural man WILL NOT seek God, and have turned away from God, and the natural man HATES God. Are you telling me a man with this kind of cruel, deceitful heart full of sin, will choose the things of God based on his free will that's already been tainted by sin ? NEVER. We can never choose God ON OUR OWN. God has to work in us first and give us a new heart.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak Your pride stinks! You got nothing straight. You spit on the word of God I gave you. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. A lost person hears the word of God that they will go to hell unless they repent and get born again. So they choose Jesus Christ to give Him access to their life to change it. Face what John 1:12 says or continue to spit on the word of God because of your lying Calvinism pride.
boldforjesus 3 months ago
@boldforjesus When I said lets get this straight, I meant the part where I was talking about all our free will that is tainted with sin. Hold your horses buddy. You are right, only those who receive him and believe in Him will become children of God. So how does this contradict the reform view ? I do not spit on the word of God, rather I uphold it and study it without being biased. If this is what SCRIPTURE TELLS ME, even though I cannot FULLY COMPREHEND it, I choose to accept it.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@boldforjesus "So they choose Jesus Christ to give Him access to their life to change it." You chose Jesus Christ ? "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last." John 15:16. Scripture speaks for itself my friend.
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44 You claim that you chose God. Scripture speaks otherwise. God chose you first, then only you chose God.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@rainbowcicak You twist the word of God. Jesus was talking to His disciples when He said that He choose them not them He. Re: Him drawing us, Jesus said, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL peoples to Myself." - John 12:32. So he draws everyone to be saved, but most will still go to hell (Matthew 7:13,14).
boldforjesus 3 months ago
@boldforjesus I twist the word of God ? Woah, be careful with your mouth my friend. Yes, Jesus are talking to His disciples. So what did Jesus mean ? Jesus is saying that the disciples did not choose to follow Jesus, rather Jesus was the one that appointed them to follow him. In other words, they did not choose to follow Jesus out on their own free will, Jesus was the one that appointed them to "choose" to follow Him.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@boldforjesus I can explain to you, but youtube character limit just isn't enough. So I invite you to read this, and please do. This pretty much sums up everything about that verse. .effectualgrace[.][c][om]/2010/11/26/understanding-john-1232/ Remove brackets.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@boldforjesus To be so bold to accuse someone of spitting on the word of God, I sure worry for you. You sound exactly like the Pharisees who accuse Jesus of slanderous things when Jesus was preaching. Rather if I were you, I would uphold any opinions that another person may have, and consider it. If it is harmony with scripture, then by all means I would support you. If it is not, I would confront you about it. Rather my friend, it is your pride that stinks.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
The answer is in the parable of the weat and the tares. Demon spirits were sown into the generations of men. Christ only died for true human beings. Those that have the God breated soul vs, the demon breathed souls. Both are sinners but only true humans get mercy. Remember hell was prepared for the devil and his angels... so... no ture human goes there.
RedSun875 4 months ago
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GuyEndore 4 months ago
LOL - not a misrepresentation at all.
athb4hu 4 months ago
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@arc08807 "Wouldn't you feel bad if one of the elect didn't get saved because you didn't preach?"
Impossible. A PREDESTINED "vessel of mercy prepared BEFOREHAND for Glory", is ALREADY identified and fashioned as a "Sheep" in the Reformed view of ELECTION, though having NEVER REPENTED, based on their teachings of Jn.10:26-- this being the case-- they WILL BE SAVED regardless of their "repentance" since Matt.25:33 declares the "Sheep" being seperated FOR ETERNAL LIFE apart from the Goats.
apollos6640 5 months ago
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@arc08807 "The rest will burn for their sins."
Really? burn for "their" sins?
WHEN is an individual GUILTY & Deserving of being Burned?
According to the CONSISTENT Reformed view of Rom.9, Man is FATED for either HEAVEN or HELL, since "BEFORE having done ANYTHING. Either good or bad in order that Gods purpose of ELECTION might continue..."
Man doesn't Burn for "his sins", he's DAMNED to the Lake of Fire because of Gods SOVEREIGN WILL & DECREE, for "His good pleasure" to "glorify Himself".
apollos6640 5 months ago
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To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 5 months ago
This Old Man is the Only consistent calvinist I know of.
apollos6640 5 months ago
Calvinism is a false religion .Jesus died for me at Calvary
kb9ylu 5 months ago
@kb9ylu If you believe in Jesus and love Him, then what you say is absolutely true and all Calvinists would affirm that. In fact, we (along with the Bible) would say that the only reason you love and believe in Jesus is because He died for you on Calvary. So you can rest in His finished work!
jasonvanb1 5 months ago
actually, the real funny thing is, when the guy said "how is that good news" about the "calvinist" saying Jesus may love you. Calvinists wouldn't say that. And Arminians have even less good news. they just say, jesus loves you all the way...to which the non-believer replies...then why should I beleive? he already loves me...
Follower172 6 months ago
@Follower172 That makes no sense whatsoever. According to calvinism, one believes only if one is predestrined to believe. Preaching, praying, readin scripture is all irrelevant to getting saved or not. So yes, the 'good news' of Calvinism is anything but good news. It's fatalistic brain-pollution.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
As a Calvinist, I think the video is funny, if indeed it is only light hearted humor. But the statements being made in here are completely inappropriate. Straw men, ad hoc, down right misrepresentation of reformed theology. If a person is dead, and God raises him to new life (irressistable grace) then how is that a) forcing himself on them and b) how can a dead person "choose" to follow anything? Too many Kerrigan Skelly fans in here. private im if you want to talk
Follower172 6 months ago 3
@Follower172 I'm glad you found it funny. It is only intended as good fun with my Calvinist brothers / sisters in Christ. I also agree with you about the comments. I stopped trying to keep up with them all a while ago. There are a lot of non-Calvinists that have posted here that have deeper issues than theology.
stjono 6 months ago 2
@Follower172 I'm also a Calvinist who enjoyed this video. See, we Calvinists DO have a sense of humor! Still, the doctrine he presented isn't a straw man or ad hoc. The Bible tells us that those whom God elected will be saved, and that that election was made before we were born. The rest will burn for their sins. Jesus told us to preach the gospel because we are the means by which some elect get saved. Wouldn't you feel bad if one of the elect didn't get saved because you didn't preach?
acr08807 5 months ago
@acr08807 I am not the only means that God would use. and If someone is elect, then they will be saved, by the exact means that god decreed. So if I failed to preach, and they weren't led to Christ because of me, then they would be led to Christ by another means.
Follower172 5 months ago
@Follower172 Great, so we agree. Christians need to preach the Gospel, because, if one of us fails, then the elect still will get saved by hearing another.
acr08807 5 months ago
@Follower172
I'm not a Calvinist, but that video is a distortion of Calvinism. It ignores Calvin's teaching on man's responsibility. God's sovereign predestination does not rule out our responsibility to God in the slightest, any more than the infinite Life of God prevents our being alive. On the contrary, the Life of God makes possible our own life and that of all other creatures.
5355vbxjbj76rvn 4 months ago
@Follower172 Thank you so much for standing up for us reformed believers ( believers of the bible)! I cant stand Kerigan Skelly him and I have had discussions before I proved him wrong several times and now am blocked from him lol looks like the holy spirit convicted him! oh well GOD BLESS BROTHER!
ghosthunter5656 3 months ago
I love how us reformers cant preach the good news! FALSE WE CAN! lol learn what Jesus says "my sheep are spread out through all the world you dont know who they are but they are chosen and you must speak and God ( only god the father) will draw whom he has chosen to come near him" Please read your bible very very carefully God bless
ghosthunter5656 3 months ago
@ghosthunter5656 Amen to that ! You have people that still doesn't understand that. They can't understand why Jesus gives a "general call of repentance" to everyone and sends His disciples to preach to everyone, when Jesus never died for the reprobate in the first place. That is exactly the point, because ONLY THE FATHER knows who are His sheep, and who is not. We do not know, therefore we MUST preach to EVERYONE and let GOD himself draw His SHEEP to Jesus.
rainbowcicak 3 months ago
@zebb1111 there's a major differnce between "none being good" & humanity being "Totally Depraved". Like DEAD puppets with their strings cut-off by the Puppeteer, commanded to move, then burned forever for not moving o show His "Justice", is your Heretical garbage of Total Depravity.
apollos6640 6 months ago
calvinism is for helping to sear scripturally ignorant low caliber types to either remain in the pseudo error following the pipers scattered about - or to awake out of it but humiliated by realizing how theyre exposed as a person who got sucked into it angered by their embarrassment of being exposed as the moron they are lashing back at god by becomin an evolutionist/atheist ..just as the low caliber traits a moron usually reacts ,calvy peeps are funny..idiots..its hard not to laugh at'em
dubvishun 6 months ago
BTW, John Owen said more about 'God's hatred' as well: "We deny that all mankind are the object of that love of God which moved him to send his Son to die; God having 'made some for the day of evil [...] Reprobation [is] the issue of hatred, or a purpose of rejection." Works of J. Owen, Vol. X., p. 149.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
- "It is even biblical to say that God has foreordained sin." Edwin Palmer, The 5 Points of Calvinism, p. 82.
- "God justly wills that sins be committed by us, and indeed absolutely wills that they be commited; nay, procures in time these events himself" Calvinist theologian John Piscator (1546-1625), in A. Newman: "A Manual of Church History Vol. II", p. 338.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
Holy Moly....there are a lot of folks on this thread that haven't the first clue as to what Calvinism teaches....
Not to mention the video that's funny but dead wrong.
rpavich 6 months ago
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The Secret of God - how can some believe ?
Eve believed !!!!!!!
The human race is descendant of Eve...
Well, if some here wants to be honest and not a man follower, for you own benefit, read this: Segredo de Deus - Mt 10:26; Mc 4:22; Lc 8:17; 12:2; Jo 18:20; Cl 1:26.
marcelobetel 6 months ago
@tennesseeOwnsMyBones... Calvinist teach that because of Adams Sin, God PURPOSELY manufactures DEAD babies in the womb, preprogrammed to Sin & Only Sin, lacking ALL ability to repent or beg for mercy, the VAST majority of ALL Humanity HATED by Him & FASHIONED for the Lake of Fire "BEFORE having done anything either good or bad", "in order to make known the riches of His Glory for vessels of mercy (an ELECT few) which He had prepared BEFOREHAND for GLORY!!" While simultaneously Decreeing ALL Sin.
apollos6640 6 months ago
@apollos6640 Exactly, which is why I utterly loathe the theology that is called calvinism.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@apollos6640 the fact that none are good seems to boggle your mind. so? whats so good about you? you accepted the Lord while others didn't? that makes you something secial? wheres the Grace?
sounds like works. AND can only lead to no assurance.
If I choose God, I can chose to no longer love God.
where does the loss of salvation become possible when Jesus is the shepard of his flock?
ST-John says that the proof that they were not truly Christians is that they left the church.
zebb1111 6 months ago
The main problem of calvinism, aside the fact that is turns God into the author of sin, is that it is completely misanthropic and therefore often loveless. Why care for your fellow human beings when your god himself doesn't even want to. Remember: in calvinism, god has willfully and explicitly created people for damning them. If god hates most of his own creation with such passion - as we are told that only few are elect - why should human suffering spur us into action to relieve it.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
You completely misunderstand Calvinism. sorry...swing and a miss big time.
rpavich 6 months ago
@rpavich That is the standard reply I get from calvinists. Sorry, I'm not impressed. Come back to me with arguments from Calvin's Institution, his Defensio, his Bible Commentary to prove me wrong. You can't. As this is what Calvin ultimately taught: supralapsarianism in its most rigid form.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
I can only tell you what I know....and you are wrong.
Point me to a portion of SOME Calvinist resource where a Calvinist says:
1.) God is the author of sin.
2.) God is misanthropic and therefore often loveless.
3.) God doesn't care for our fellow humans.
4.) God has willfully and explicitly created people for damning them.
5.) God hates his own creation with a passion.
6.) Only a few are elect.
those are your statements...find them in Calvinist materials.
rpavich 6 months ago
@rpavich 1.) Nothing happens outside of God's will, per Calvin. Therefore, sin, too, is willed by the calvinist god. Adding the lame ad hoc disclaimer that it doesn't, does not change this fact. 2.) Per Calvin, the reprobates have been hated by God before they were even created; therefore it is misanthropic and loveless. 3.) God only cares for the elect, per Calvin. 4.) God has indeed done so. Read Calvin's "On the Eternal Predestination of God" 5.) It appears he does, as we are, per Calvin,
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
undeserving of God's love and mercy. The elect are only chosen out of sheer random pleasure, they do not 'deserve' God's affection, they are merely granted it. 6) As Augustinian before him, Calvin too was of the disposition that most humans belonged to the reprobate.
It's all in Calvin's Institution, rpavich. Have you read it?
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@rpavich Also: did the god of calvinism predestine some to eternal damnation and some to eternal life before the foundation of the world, and time itself? If you say: Yes, because he foreknew who would believe, you're an Arminian. If you say: No, it is up to each man to make his own destiny, you are a Catholic. If you are a Calvinist, you can only say: Yes, he did, and he did so out of hid own good pleasure, without regard for any future acts of his creatures.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
If what you mean is that all men deserve Hell, yet God who is rich in mercy saved his sheep for his own Glory...then yes...that's what i believe.
And yes...I believe God has the freedom to save whom He chooses.
rpavich 6 months ago
@rpavich As for Calvinist materials. From John Owen (Puritan calvinist): "Calvin taught that God loved the elect and planned their holiness and salvation while on the other hand, he hated the reprobate and planned their sin and damnation."
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones
That's a quote from Owen?
I don't think so....I think you are just cutting and pasting crap you've found on the web...cite the resource and page.
rpavich 6 months ago
@zebbb1111 you've been indoctrinated by the Devil. Your systematic beliefs are unbiblical & full of contradictions. Answer me this;
Why does God send out a "General Calling" of repentance to DEAD sinners whom been predestined for the Lake of Fire, purposely fashioned For destruction "Before having done anything either good or bad",who Jesus NEVER died for? For WHAT purpose!?
apollos6640 6 months ago
This gets pretty old, by the way. "The myths of calvinism"? Just by adding the ad hoc disclaimer that somehow supralapsarianism (which is what calvinism always boils down to) does not make God the author of sin is NOT a valid arguement.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
I'm pretty sure that it was jesus who said "lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil". nuff said on this subject....argue with Jesus you who dont understand the total depravity of man and think him capable of salvation by works......"accepting" jesus is a work if it comes from us. we are to depraved to save ourselves. It is the Father who reveals the Son to us.
zebb1111 7 months ago
CALVINISTS!
IT
IS
OK!!!
This video merely points out the thought processes that might enter a mans mind if they found a Calvinist witnessing to them. It's just hard to wrap people's minds around God and "predestination" it is a BAD starting point.
Just say "by grace you are saved" but do not mention the rest yet heheheheh.
LampPlaceThing 7 months ago
"I can never join Calvin in addressing his god... [...] The being described in his five points is not the God whom you and I acknowledge and adore, the Creator and benevolent governor of the world; but a daemon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no god at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes [given him by] Calvin." Thomas Jefferson.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones i didnt know jeferson was a linguist and a biblical scholar.
what kind of little god sits around waiting for someone to "accept him into his heart" My God accepts me and not the other way around. what assurance we can have.
zebb1111 7 months ago
@zebb1111 Yes, your god accepts you. He also arbitrarily chose to not accept others. That makes calvinism sick. But I understand how nothing really matters as long as you belong to the Elect Club.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones you have clearly never read Calvin for yourself....your spouting all the myths.
zebb1111 7 months ago
@zebb1111 Haven't I? You wanna test this? Where do you want to start? The Institution? The commentaries? The Defensio? Or perhaps the works of his successor Beza? I say: bring it on.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
This is lame!
AmericanConcrete 8 months ago
Calvinism Is Correct Theology. Do Your Research!
lasvegastroll 8 months ago 2
@lasvegastroll
How can you say that after watching this video clip?
how can one live they are surely saved and Jesus died and has paid for their sins?
I don't want a May be God. I want a definite God an absolute God.
changeishere2008 7 months ago
@changeishere2008 this is a cartoon, calvin, represents the research and study of hundreds of reform theologians. llike the westminister confession of faith was created by a large body of protestant teachers. it wasnt invented by some lone agent deciding to start a new denomination like methodism. If your afraid to let God be God and let him decide the way he wants, its because you dont trust him.
im glad im saved through his choice, because humans always change their minds.
zebb1111 7 months ago
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Calvinism is a spiritual disease. The only Cure is Jesus of Nazareth! Not calvin of Geneva !
changeishere2008 8 months ago
Calvinism is a spiritual disease. I pray The Holy Spirit will open the eyes of men and women.
changeishere2008 8 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 8 months ago
@ForeverResplendent
Hey if you adhere and buy the grave lies of calvinsm/ TULIP. I feel for you. I Pray Jesus will set you free from all of it.
watch the above cartoon again funny but true.
changeishere2008 7 months ago
@ForeverResplendent
Hey if you adhere and buy the grave lies of calvinsm/ TULIP. I feel for you. I Pray Jesus will set you free from all of it.
watch the above cartoon again funny yet very sad! how calvinism spins and twists God's word way out of context.
changeishere2008 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
@ForeverResplendent
I don't have the energy or desire to argue either. i am so glad i am not a calvin follower.
changeishere2008 7 months ago
@ForeverResplendent You can sugar coat calvinism as much as you want, and heap as much superlatives on it - preferably of the biblical kind - as you want, the logical end result of calvinism remains that the calvinist god itself is the author of sin. This notion of God willing, nay, PREORDAINING sin and evil to enter the world, is an affront to the character of God.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
@ForeverResplendent There is no one truth.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
@ForeverResplendent Pure reasoned logic, calvinist style: Before the foundation of the world, the calvinist god, on a sheer whim, decided to write up an 'OK' and 'Void'-list of creatures he was going to create. He then created the world, and decided that his creatures were to have an evil, irresponsible and sinful nature. After his creatures have done what their creator instilled them to do, the calvinist god gets angry with them, blaming them for being evil, irresponisble and sinful.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
@ForeverResplendent Fieri potest, ut recte quis sentiat, at id quod sentit, polite eloqui non possit.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones Interesting response. Thanks for posting.
010101zz 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones another person who never read Calvin and got his doctrine from an antiCalvinist who couldnt understand Calvin. arguing with the potter about how one was made. predestinationn was not a Calvinist invention. st-paul uses the term several times. and Jesus told peter that it was not on his own but our Father in heaven who revealed that Jesus was the Christ to Peter.
read your bible and then debate Calvin or ST-Paul wichever you want.
zebb1111 7 months ago
@zebb1111 Again: you want to debate this? Bring it on. We will see how 'shallow' my knowledge of Calvin and his theology is. Let's take it to the stage.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones you sound like the school bully who wants to fight everyone so he can prove hes tougher.
we all want to worship God in truth and spirit. no reason to go all hatefull
zebb1111 6 months ago
@zebb1111 Excuse me, I believe your first comment to me was about my supposed ignorance on this matter. I have heard calvinists use this excuse a million times. I have read Calvin. And Beza. And Piscator. And Gomarus. Don't tell me 'I don't get it', I get it.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 6 months ago
@ForeverResplendent Arminianism did not rise as a movement to further the cause of 'human ability' where salvation is concerned. Arminianism rose out of the very righteous complaint that Five-Point Calvinism turned God into the author of sin and placed the blame for sin and evil not on the shoulders of mankind, but one the One True Living God, who is the Light. Most calvinists have no idea what Arminius actually taught. Nor Pelagius, for that matter.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
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ForeverResplendent 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones You do realize that the 5 points of Calinism came out as a response to the 5 points of Arminianism. Pelagius taught jusification by works, and the main points of Arminius was partial depravity of man, conditonal election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, and perserverance of some saints. I ask you this, if Jesus died for all sins of everyone does that mean no one is in hell?
ryno200 7 months ago
@ryno200 Yes, I do realize that. In fact, The Synod of Dordrecht - which you are refering to - also condemned supralapsarianism, funny enough. It is evident you haven't read anything by Pelagius himself, for stating that he simply taught justification through works is severely misrepresenting his theology. Read Pelagius' commentary on Romans. And yes, I believe Christ's sacrifice has the power to redeem all of mankind.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones So, then no one is going to hell then? Because if Christ died for the sins of all mankind then, there is no punishment for any man and God cannot justly send anyone to hell. The argument boils down to is the nature of man basically good or evil prior to conversion. Pelagius rightly asserts that sin is willful hatred and contempt of God, by I believe he falls in error when he says we must merely try harder to be good, where is Christ in that?
ryno200 7 months ago
@ryno200 That depends. If you are a calvinist, and if you are consistent, you would have to agree that man's sinful nature was preordained by the calvinist god. Where is the justice? Pelagius believed, and I concur, that mankind is NOT inherently evil. To say it is, is to say that every baby that is born is as much a vessel of iniquity as the adult sinner who has come to the age of understanding.
TennesseeOwnsMyBones 7 months ago
@TennesseeOwnsMyBones we onlty care about what Jesus and the apostles taught. Predestination is the mystery of the ages. predestined by foreknowledge is the same thing as double predestination. in acting on his foreknowledge God made himself the author of all that is to pass and all that did pass. his omniscience requires his omnipresence in all things. it would seem to me that those that oppose the doctrine, dont want to let God be God. I could be wrong. im just a depraved sinner.
zebb1111 6 months ago