There is still a lot of glamour and advertising surrounding the industries pertaining to marriage in terms of wedding dresses and magazine articles on venues and jewellery and gift lists and all of that. However, notice that it is marketed heavily (if not soley) at women.
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Would it be correct to suggest that it is women who desire western marriage more than men (who desire western marriage)?
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Ladies, I am fascinated to know. Do you notice how many men do not see anything to gain from marriage?
This video is so true love it :) I'm one of those rare people that's waiting and if it's it's not rare and if theres more out there like me then like my comment I'm intersted to see...
Amen to the washington post everything they wrote was true to the word. Women who give up their virginity before marriage are whores and should be treated as such. Dresses under the knee are required and should be enforced by law. 100% social conservatives
Some folks on this thread have some very, um, unorthodox ideas concerning biology: namely, that men have little or no ability to govern their sex drives, a weakness that women exploit. IF that is true, then are men similarly powerless in other areas of behavior, say, violent impulses? Testosterone is the hormonal fuel for both sex and aggression in men. Therefore, are men similarly unable to control aggressive tendencies? (continued)
IF we take that postulate as a given, then if men should be given less responsibility for sexual choices, should they also be given less responsibility for aggressive behaviors? Conversely, since women have lower testosterone, and are presumably better able to make conscious choices in aggressive situations, should they be judged more harshly than men when it comes to violent crime? I DON"T BELIEVE THIS MIND YOU, but I'm VERY curious as to what some folks on this thread think...
@Kameha413 I can't communicate on your intellectual level considering your vocabulary and so forth. Perhaps I can recommend a youtube video in your league.
"the story of feminism- as told by women"
It features numerous iconic feminists (like Steinem) and last I saw had over 60,000 views. Maybe it will enlighten you further in some way I don't know but It's closer your academics me. Take care.
@embracingreality Enlighten me? I hope I've done something of that for you. Thoughtful logic will win more for you than a strident and hostile voice. Good luck and godspeed.
I think this study is right, and that's one of the best things that has happened in history! Why would someone like to go back to the "good old times" when you had to get married in order to get some? Crazy!
yep females have it rough hahaha. better keep them legs mighty shut or else you'll end up on the Maury show begging to know who your baby father is hahahaha.
I suppose what gets me most is the hypocrisy. Conservatives want so many things stamped out because their very existence (seemingly) offends their sensibilities, even if they have NO exposure to it whatsoever. But as we've seen so often, these are the same things THEY use and abuse behind closed doors. "Oh, sex outside marriage is SO horrible, unless I'm shtupping my secretary, or cruising rent boys, in which case, it ROCKS!!"
@Kameha413 humanity did label the male coz he dont lose in this situation! he will be like aaaawwwwww yaaaaa i scored me some tail, the female cant do the same, premarital sex is wrong 4 both ( just to make a point) a girl loses every time, a male wins every time
@Kameha413 Which of the two has to trust the others chastity to determine paternity?
Incidentally "tango" is a style of Latin ball room dance not comparable to an act that can produce an 18 year responsibility, especially financially for a man.
@embracingreality OMG. "Incidentally 'tango' is a style of Latin ball room dance..." Was that an attempt at irony or sarcasm or an insult? You couldn't REALLY intend that as a serious comment...could you...? To make yet another pop cultural reference, "Fascinating..."
@Kameha413 You seem to be stalking me dear, how very droll. Perhaps you should find a homeless man, They're quite chatty, especially when intoxicated.
@embracingreality I'm stalking you? ROFLMAO! The "genius" posts multiple times on a public thread and willingly engages in a debate with me, trying desperately, DESPERATELY, to defend his retrograde beliefs, and he claims I'm stalking him? Oh, Sir Reality, I post because, so far at least, you willingly reply, and I despair of you retiring so early from the field. But, I do sincerely thank you for the jousting. It was the most fun I've had on a thread in many a day! (continued)
@embracingreality But, if the best a "genius" can do when backed into a logical and rhetorical corner with no weapons left to him is to put up his helm (or lob vague and juvenile insults behind him as he flees, gibbering), then so be it. BUT, true to my word, I will neither confirm nor deny my gender, as I'm sure you feared I might, though I have left many (admittedly inadvertent) clues. However, this leaves you with the possibility that you were bested, BESTED, by a WOMAN. Fare thee well!
@embracingreality Oh, sorry, one more thing. Despite your occasional correct use of vocabulary like "droll" in an attempt to project a "genius" intelligence you clearly do not possess, your dismissal of the basic tenets of fluid intelligence and your woeful writing ability clearly give you away. I wouldn't pull that one out again. ;>)
Their comments about young marrige are so true. I have some wacky christian right relatives, and I have met members of their church who get married at like 18 and 19 years old. I am 28 and engaged, and I even feel kind of young to get married sometimes. Oh, and funny thing, my fiancee still wants to marry me, and we've already had tons of sex. Conservatives are anti-woman. period.
The reason women even talk about premarital sex is because they don't want to seem like they have loose vaginas. Everyone knows they are having it, not with you corny ass losers. But with me.
Listeeeeen! I don't give a shit, women can have as much sex with as many different men as they like. I just never read the rule book that says I have to marry them and take them seriously for relationships afterwards.Women's lib. Go for it "girlfriend"!
i'm ok if a women has had sex before,but in no way will i be attracted to a whore. you know what i mean. like if the girl i liked had sex with like 45 dudes which included orgy,umm i would stay the fuck away. shows how much you think of your body. plus,will the love be real? i mean sex is supposed to be another way to be intimate. will a whore value that time as much as me? this goes for both gender. there has to be a line i think.
Why buy a cow that gives milk away for free to whoever? You know damn good and well once you buy it the milk is going to dry up! Then the cow gets FAT, maxes out your credit cards and with a sense of entitlement drags you to court, takes your money and your house?
So that article proves not only that the writers at the Washington Times are filthy misogynists, demonizing women who choose to have sex before they're married, but that they also are making a general statement that men can't possibly want to get married if there is no promise of sex! Wow, what a bunch of retards! I hope they never get laid again. I hope that they never find a place to put their tiny, shriveled, uncircumcised cock in ever EVER again, because they don't deserve women (OR MEN).
@hatzu8 Huh? Never get laid? How is that even possible? You silly women are so busy giving sex away for free that the professionals are literally on sale! Sex with a young, fit attractive woman can be bought in america for less than $100, easily. Actually well less than that but why would a guy want to pay less than $100? American women are considered the easiest in the whole damn world. Did women actually think that they were going to be highly respected by men after the sexual revolution? XD
@embracingreality Are you retarded? Well, I know you are because you used an "XD" face. You are probably the dumbest person on the fucking planet, if you didn't understand what I was trying to say. If you seriously can't grasp it, well I hope you have your helmet on.
Marriage serves no rational purpose. The only difference between marriage and a standard relationship is that it is more expensive to get a divorce than it is to break up with someone.
@sluggdiddyyddidgguls i know many people who waited until they were married to have sex, and they are still together, unlike millions and millions of others.
@elmirasahar "i know many people who waited until they were married to have sex, and they are still together, unlike millions and millions of others."
Just because a couple remains together doesn't mean they're happy together. I highly doubt U are in any position to determine whether or not these couples you speak of are truly content to remain together. Virgin marriages almost always end in disaster for myriad reasons and I doubt the coupes you speak of are an exception.
@elmirasahar There's your red flag right there. Recently people have become a lot more open minded and intelligent. If it's a personal choice, then dude, whatever you're missing out on some of the most intimate and close relationships of your life. But if its honestly for some religious shit..man Sorry you had to grow up with that shit. I hope for your sake, one day, you're free
Women being whores is a serious problem, it creates ALOT of BROKEN HOMES thats a FACT. There are a shitload of broken homes today compared to 60-70years ago. The Article should've touched on alot more.
Girls having sex does pressure other girls to have sex, in any major city throughout this country females are sleeping around at a much younger age, having kids they clearly cannot afford to have nor are they prepared to take care of. Yet these two idiots on this show think thats fine?
my former roommate (a mormon) met a guy over spring break and decided to get married that summer. They both were "saving it" for their wedding night, but I can't count the number of times she whined to me about how she can't wait to kiss him and have sex. People who get married JUST to have sex are stupid. Marriage is "supposed" to be a special commitment to a person you want to spend your entire life with, not just as an outlet for your sexually deprived self.
I love the way this issue is always about rights and no one talks about responsibility.
Not just hers, but both parties. I am all for rights, but I also believe that we would have less problems with issues like this or abortion if more people took responsibility for their actions. Actually learn what things cause and what effect they will have on your life and minimize the risks. you would not jump out of an airplane without knowing the risks and minimizing them. or maybe you would...
We have a 60% divorce rate in this country.....maybe that might have something to do with it! Marriage in America sucks. Stay single fellas, just date, the long term prospect is not too promising.
@nagone11 Exactly, why would you marry a whore which is pretty much all you find in this country hit it quit it thats wassup, if you want a real women you can head to just about any other place in the world.
Sooooo...within all this talk of premarital sex, why are these pundits focusing on women not giving it up, but not on men controlling their rampant urges? Because it's okay for men to have premarital sex (presumably with "sluts" unworthy of eventual matrimony), because that's just the way men are? Are we REALLY going that backwards in gender sociopolitics? Back to the good ol' boy double standard? I fear for my daughters having to navigate this sort of misogynistic CRAP...
@Kameha413 Then tell your daughters to actually date a guy they like, and not some douche bag that is socially, or economically viable to their pathetic narcissistic needs. Oh, wait, we will see how well that goes down... You see, it's really the double standard that comes from the out of control neo-feminism that creates a situation for women to have their cake and eat it too. Now that women have the same economic opportunities, they all want MORE, not someone equal.
@Orion1232 How do you come to the conclusion that my children are pathetic and narcissistic? Just because I would want them judged to the same standards as men in the area of sexuality does not make them either. Though from your rant, I could surmise you are merely projecting your own emotional shortcomings...
@Kameha413 Nope, merely commenting on the dredge culture of media pushing young minds into banal existences. My point being that not even you will be able to control your kid once they are brainwashed by network tv, and jersey shore type shows. And yes, it will lead to narcissism. It's what sells, and what people, especially the highest buying power demographic, teenage girls, want. A media saturated with the idea that their bodies are for sale, even if it's done subtlety.
@Orion1232 My aim is not to "control" my kids, but teach them to think rationally for themselves. They are definitely more discerning than you would make them out to be. Even at tender primary school age, they understand that commercials are merely tools to try to sell them things. More than once I've heard them observe, after another "seen on tv" ad, "That can't be as good as they say. They just want you to buy it." Pretty good start, I'd say.
@Orion1232 Oh, and if you were speaking of "dredge" culture in general, rather than my daughters, your choice of phrasing was rather poor. The words, "Tell your daughters...viable to their pathetic narcissistic..." very much suggest the latter, and not the former. Sort of the difference between, "You are a misogynistic troglodyte with no rhetorical skills," and, "Some men in our society are misogynistic troglodytes..." Just saying...
@Kameha413 The demographic that enables this culture of so called "misogynistic troglodytes" are TEENAGE girls! LOL It's quite sad, because what the whole feminist movement was about was removing the attached attitude associated with the submissive, shameful of their bodies, social roles being pushed by society. Yet, nowadays, females are free to work, be equal, YET choose the culture of being the whore. Just look around, guys don't buy cosmo, watch jersey shore, or choose for females to do that
@Orion1232 LOL! Because corporate executives choose to push overly sexualized media and products to young girls, young girls are to blame for misogyny in our culture! Oh, that's too rich! *gasp* Let me catch my breath...misogyny has existed for as long as humans have, so I wouldn't be putting the main blame on Cosmo or Jersey Shore (which both hit a slightly older demographic, I might add). Oh, my goodness...ROFLMAO!
@Orion1232 Okay, so let's take your postulate as a given for just a split-second...then what explains misogyny BEFORE feminism? Just plain old gender prejudice back in the old days? Okay. So then the gender prejudice of pre-feminism has been replaced post-feminism by the whore-ish nature of young teenage girls...? ....No, no, it still sounds like the gender prejudice thing to me.
@Orion1232 I also notice you dodge my point about how your words could be taken as disparaging my daughters, intended or not. To be somewhat pre-feminist about it, that's not being particularly chivalrous to a pair of primary school-age girls, isn't it? They aren't even anywhere NEAR to the teenage, whore-ish stage you talk about!
@Orion1232 You also seem very fixated on the whole teenage whore thing. Okay, so what's the exact psychological and/or sociological mechanism for teenage whores creating feelings or expressions of misogyny in males? What level and type of of stimuli are required to trigger the effect? How does the effect play out in different demographic groups? Does the effect wax, wane, or maintain over time? Is regular exposure to whore stimuli required to maintain the effect?
@Orion1232 Of, if you want to look at your assertion in a different way, let's look at prejudice against Native Americans, which you cite as your ethnicity on your profile. If we follow your logic, children who are fans of the Cleveland Indians, or of old-time cowboy movies, somehow "enable" bigots who hate Native Americans, bigots who have no direct connection to or knowledge of these particular children or their views, except that some exist in our society. Your response?
@Orion1232 Or, to make the logical connections even simpler: to use your logic, you would be justified in hating my two little primary-school-age girls, unknown to you, by dint of their just being female (the very definition of misogyny), because some quantity of teenage girls out in the wide world, who you do not know or have any meaningful connection with, are "whores" in your learned opinion? Is that REALLY where you stand? Because that's essentially what you've been arguing.
@Orion1232 As an aside, does your Native American culture espouse misogyny of the kind you seem to advocate? Or are you merely taking a 19th-century Euro-centric stance on gender politics? The same Euro-centric culture that deemed Native Americans as less than human? Just wondering...
@Kameha413 No, i think you are the on who is insulting here. By your very victim mentality you seem to espouse, you are the one who is being the misogynist. You think women are incapable of making choices? You think they are too stupid to think for their own? I simply point out that they should take some responsibility and you retort with the obtuse ramblings of a small child. I asked once again, who enables this perpetuation? If we don't make up our own minds, who does?
@Orion1232 LOL! I'm the one being insulting? By merely pointing out the rhetorical and logical flaws (and corollaries) in your expressed beliefs? And in way of response, I notice you lamely dodge every question and challenge I put to you concerning your very clear disparagement of women in general, and not just the "teenage whores" you say "enable" misogyny, which seemingly means, in your mind, they are the root cause.
@Orion1232 As for your repeated assertion about "teenage whores" being "enablers," to quote The Princess Bride,"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." If you mean to say that the behavior of a certain teen demographic (or is it all teen girls?) is the major catalyst for misogyny in our society, then once again I ask: what's the exact psychological and/or sociological connection or mechanism at work? Begin by laying it out, step by step.
@Orion1232 Even if we accept some sort of causal effect, think about the level of impact you're implying. You speak as if this teenage whoredom is something that gravely oppresses every male in our society on a very personal level, to the extent that a person decides not to judge females individually upon their merits and demerits, and then hate an entire gender without any due consideration. It seems to me the "teenage whore effect" is just a lame excuse for prejudice.
@Orion1232 One more thing (and I do admit this is an aside). You said, "your victim mentality" to me. Like the other fellow I was debating, do you think I'm a woman? What do you think, one way or the other, and why? Like I told the other guy, I've left a lot of clues. I'm wondering if you picked up on them. Just curious. Despite my challenging tone, I find personalities like yours (and embracingreality's) fascinating studies, and like to explore what makes you tick.
@Orion1232 Okay, one more thing that I just can't resist pointing out. Once guys like you have been backed into a rhetorical corner, you always try to minimize past statements. You called women in general pathetic, narcissistic, and whores. You didn't qualify that in any way, shape or form. Now you claim that you merely "point out that they should take some responsibility." ROFLMAO! Like I said to Sir Reality, hoist and petard and all that...
@Orion1232 And what's the matter with my "ramblings?" As far as I can see, I've mainly attempted to deconstruct your beliefs regarding misogyny, proposed corollaries to your beliefs and asked for your feedback (to establish a better basis for debate), and commented on your thought processes. There's nothing there that I see as particularly obtuse. My arguments, comments and questions, and the reasons behind them, aren't THAT tough to follow, are they?
@Kameha413 Yea, I must be Mysogonist. That's what you have called me. Funny how the victim role suddenly turns into "empowerment", when it's the exact opposite. Like I said, the very core enablers of this are the biggest demographic of those with the most purchasing power. Dumb teenage girls. I am sorry, but no man is buying Cosmo, or watching Jersey Shore. Women are the victims of their own demise. I don't say that men don't take responsibility, but the influence of media mold girls minds.
@Orion1232 After three weeks that's the best you can come up? A lazy reiteration of nonsense? Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. There's not even a logical train of thought, and in no way do you engage any of the questions or issues I've raised in a coherent way. No sense trying to discuss seriously with someone who can't even come up with a good "troll" response. *yawn* At least Sir Reality was entertaining.
@Orion1232 You can't even come up with a causal linkage between what teen girls buy and watch on TV, and how this supposedly "enables" (there's that word again) misogyny. Talk about lazy...at least have the guts (if not the brains) to explain your views clearly and succinctly. But if you were merely being a troll and are not really a passionate misogynist, as I suspect, I imagine that the game has just grown boring for you, and thus the lack of effort. Ah, well...
@nosajj12345 I think I've made my viewpoint clear. I also don't see how my having a professed faith or not enters into this discussion. You don't need religion to have morality. I don't need to be religious to want my kids NOT to have pre-marital sex, or to be given the social burden of having to police the sexual urges of every man they meet (the men should do THAT themselves...what are they? savages?), or to have them judged more harshly than men if they do have premarital sex.
@Kameha413 Simple biology. Promiscuity will always be a bigger detriment to a woman's social value because a man can't trust a woman to give birth to his children. If she's promiscuous he could end up tricked into raising other men's children. No matter how many other women a man may sleep with a woman will always know that any child she gives birth to is hers. It's a simple biological imperative. No amount of "equal rights" or social acceptance will ever change basic biological programming.
@embracingreality So "biology" justifies a skewed social contract/construct? We're not more sophisticated than that as a society? That's aiming pretty low as a species. I would hope we could use our intelligence, compassion and discernment to counter prejudice and injustice.
@Kameha413 Biology, like gravity, is a natural phenomenon. Social behaviors developed quite obviously as a result of these fixed, non-negotiable factors. Society was more sophisticated, now women commonly have the chastity of animals, it wasn't always the case. If your not aware of history outside your bubble nearly every past society that has existed had marriage and female chastity as it's baseline. Look at the results on parenting/family since the sexual revolution. Society is now devolving.
@embracingreality Biology is just one factor among many influences in life. Nature and nurture. Biology does not determine my or my children's ability to think logically and rise above base impulses or outside social pressures. To follow your "logic," if boys are more prone to being aggressive, should we just accept bullying from them because it is part of their biology? I think not. You seem extremely fatalistic...
@Kameha413 Biology dear, is the primary reason why creatures reproduce it's the baseline. And the subject was female promiscuity. A woman who's chastity cannot be trusted will always be biologically less desirable. No man knowingly wants to raise the offspring of every fertile male in the neighborhood. Nature can't afford it.
@embracingreality Reproduction is not the sole purpose of sex, as your own railing against promiscuity attests. Promiscuity doesn;t have anything to do with reproduction per se, though it usually has everything to do with pleasure and gratification. And again, sex and promiscuity cannot exist without two partners. I just don't see how it's all the woman's responsibility or fault. You still haven't answered that.
@Kameha413 Simple supply and demand. Except for the last few decades throughout history in most cultures women "controlled men's rampant urges". Young women were taught to withhold sex until marriage and most did consequently men had few sexual options except to marry and commit. Women had a LOT of power through withholding sexuality. Enter feminism/sexual revolution, women gave the power away. Now single men get sex easily without commitment but if they marry sex is often denied.
@embracingreality Women had a lot of power withholding their sexuality? In the upper classes, perhaps, but not for most women. Men DIDN'T control their urges, they just used women who were of lower class for that purpose, if one of equal or higher status was not available. They either paid for it, or coerced it out of women they controlled through social or economic means, and could far more often walk away from the consequences.
@Kameha413 The fact that prostitution has always existed hardly establishes it as the past norm. Most women did withhold sex, ask them! These people aren't all in the cemetery dear.. Any woman or man over the age of 60 can tell you that men married, and married young in the past largely because of sex. Deviations don't disprove it and nobody said that sex was exclusively the reason. It's called drive. The notion that most people were operating in "patriarchal oppression" is a feminist fantasy.
@embracingreality LOL! I'm not talking about prostitution. I AM talking about the "patriarchal oppression" you seem to dismiss. Your seeming denial of patriarchal social pressures certainly doesn't cancel out its existence, past or present. It's not "feminist" to acknowldge the still-extant imbalance of gender power. That's one of the things I'm arming my children against.
@embracingreality Men are oppressed? In caps and with an exclamation point? I'm guessing you're speaking to a personal situation. I will give you that in some areas of life and social contracts, women are given preferential treatment. But in the majority of other areas, men still are given precedence in general. If there is something in your personal experience of which you speak, I'm sorry for your circumstances, but as a gender as a whole, men are hardly the most downtrodden.
@Kameha413 How painfully predictable you are, attempting to undermine my points with shaming language. NO dear, I've avoided destruction in my personal life by avoiding marriage and not having children. Unlike my friends (around whom I'm considered a genius) I don't have a manipulating, controlling woman tied around my neck like a dead chicken. Women treat me equally in relationships or get abandoned fast.
Anger? Absolutely! Everyone with any sense should be angry at what our society has become.
@embracingreality LOL! I was merely trying to get at the crux of your very pronounced anger. I still don't know the font from which it springs, but your words definitely betray your general attitude towards women. I do plead guilty to trying to goad you into answering pointed questions, yes, which you seem to avoid. Genius? Not from what I've witnessed from you so far.
@Kameha413 If you could see my position in life by comparison to those men I know who have been virtually destroyed emotionally, financially by ex-wives, lawyers and the state you would see why men I know have literally called me a genius (I don't profess to be as my I.Q. is around 130 and 140+ is required to be a genius). Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them though as they see women as the enemy. Many men do. Doubt it?
@Kameha413 If you could see my position in life by comparison to those men I know who have been virtually destroyed emotionally, financially by ex-wives, lawyers and the state you would see why men I know have literally called me a genius. I don't profess to be, my I.Q. is around 130 and 140+ is required to be a genius. Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them though as they see women as the enemy. Many men do. Doubt it?
@Kameha413 If you could see my position in life by comparison to those men I know who have been virtually destroyed emotionally, financially by ex-wives, lawyers and the state you would see why men I know have literally called me a genius. I don't profess to be, my I.Q. is around 130 and 140+ is required to be a genius. Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them though as they see women as the enemy. Many men do. Doubt it?
@embracingreality Apologies, you ARE answering my questions, after a fashion, though I certainly disagree with your viewpoints. You don't profess to be a genius, but if you truly were humble about that aspect of yourself, you wouldn't tout others calling you that. That's also telling. But that's beside the larger point. I'm sure many men have come out of divorce badly, but I don't see the connection between that and people at large taking equal responsibility for their sexual activities.
@embracingreality And I don't doubt that many men believe that women are "the enemy." I just don't believe that that is some sort of universal truth. Call me silly, call me whatever, but hey, that's just me. So, because of the experience of some divorced men you know, all women are the enemy. What about all the other men you know? Do you know any men outside of that demographic? What's the ratio of divorced and devastated, versus other groups, if you want to look at this statiscally?
@embracingreality Oh, one more aside. If you don't mind, which test or tests did you take to arrive at your IQ score, and how long ago was this measured? Is your score a ratio score? What was the standard deviation set at?
@Kameha413 Even more to the point, I suppose, is how was g subdivided, and what were the results? Did you test any narrow abilities? What were they, and their results?
@embracingreality AND you seem to think of prostitution in the past as some form of empowerment for women, when it was most often actually the opposite: the objectification and commoditization of a woman's sexuality, most often by men, most likely to the detriment of the prostitutes.
@Kameha413 Sophisticated forms of prostitution empowers women NOW. Porn, soft and hard. Female sexualized media, advertising is all about whores and their pimps exploiting resources out of the male population. The whores in question profit and sometimes profit immensely from the scam.
@embracingreality In some situations, perhaps, amongst those at the top of the adult entertainment industry in this country. But I don't think you'd get that viewpoint from the majority of sex workers, especially the exploited young people kidnapped or otherwise exploited around the world by criminal enterprises, large and small. I don't think they are profiting immensely.
@Kameha413 Do you honestly compare the female sexualized, enormous major media which oppresses men with a constant bombardment of images to exploit their resources to the tiny minority of "exploited" female sex workers that may be forced, in a country where it is completely illegal?
Your wasting my time.
Men are oppressed, I showed you why with just a few reasons among many more.
@embracingreality Tiny minority? LOL! Men are oppressed, bombarded by porn? LMAO! In my experience, in my everyday life, porn I see must be sought out. True, mass media has a lot of salacious imagery, but I choose to ignore it. I'm sorry to be wasting your time, but I'm finding our exchange to be quite intriguing. I do find your views fascinating, though I vehemently disagree.
@Kameha413 Your experience? That is the crux of the matter of your opinions, made impulsively based on your feelings and emotions from your experiences... Hell. It's not about you dear or me. There are 300 million people in the US. Do you propose we discuss them all on an individual basis? Statistics on sexualized media images and pornography and gender targets of each are readily available right here online. The same for family past and present. I'm done debating this in a 500 character post.
@embracingreality LOL! I'm just fascinated by this place in which you live, in which you are incessantly bombarded and oppressed by porn. Can you avoid it at all? Or just ignore it? I don't THINK I live in a particularly sanitized part of the country, well populated, fairly urban, fairly sophisticated, with its share of high and low entertainment. But you sound positively BESIEGED. "Porn at three o'clock high! Evasive manuevers!"
@embracingreality Impulsively? No. Taking in the sum of my life experiences, yes, but certainly that's what we all do. And I certainly think that what you espouse is DEFINITELY all about you.
@embracingreality You're done? Too bad. I was rather enjoying the exchange, to see what rhetorical knots you could tie yourself in next, to see what kinds of misogynistic statements you would spout. Ah, well. To quote Obi-Wan, "Run, Luke, run!!"
@embracingreality BTW, on your reasoning for giving up the debate, I imagine a "genius" could find a way to make cogent arguments in 500 words or less. You might wish to re-think calling out that appellation in relation to yourself; it just calls to mind Wile E. Coyote...
@Kameha413 But the appellation wasn't made by me, as I pointed out, it was made by several married and divorced men I know. You manipulate, yawn... Are the statistics I gave you, which you ignored, about me? Do libraries contain 500 character books? Is THIS the only way you can get men to talk to you? The world I live in has a percentage of single women at about 51, and growing.
Thanks for reminding me why I'm better off single.
@embracingreality No, you just claim that others applied the appellation to you, which is really the same thing. Why the need to call attention to it, to bolster your bona fides? A "genius" wouldn't need to. A "genius" would just make cogent arguments, without pulling out meaningless and unattributed statistics which have no bearing on the issue at hand. As for 500 character books, does a "genius" need an entire book to debate a point?
@embracingreality I manipulate you, a genius? Wow, score one for me, then. As for your world containing 51 percent women and growing, that's fab. I didn't complain about the percentage in my world. I'm perfectly content with the percentage in my world, AND women aren't even the enemy in my world. What's the point of that statement? Or the statement about being better off single? What does any of that that have to do with personal responsibility in gender politics? Enlighten me, please.
@embracingreality Seriously, I'm VERY curious as to which gender you really think I am. I've made a supposition based on your responses, and I'd like to confirm or deny my hypothesis. If you TRULY think I'm being manipulative (and, of course, shouldn't a "genius" be able to dodge any rhetorical or logical tricks I might employ?) I pledge to neither confirm nor deny either way, if that would make you feel better. I'd just like to prove or disprove my theory to myself.
@embracingreality Wait, hold on, I missed the exact wording of one of your responses: "Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them..." I thought your addressing me condescendingly as "dear" at times was merely a verbal affectation (I've been reading too much Patrick O'Brian of late, I suppose), but I must conclude you think I'm a woman. Okay. Got it. How did you come to that conclusion? I'm dying to hear your train of thought on this. Or am I wrong?
@embracingreality Oh, and one other thing I can't resist pointing out is that I'm not manipulating you or this conversation. In what way exactly do you mean? How? No, what I think you really mean to say is that I am twisting your words. I'd have to disagree on that. Not so much twisting as using them (and the apparent attitudes and ideas behind them) very effectively against you. Hoist and petard and all that. And you said, "the next manipulative lie..." What lie have I told?
@Kameha413 But your approval of me, my writing is inconsequential to me and more importantly to the subject of this post which you change ceaselessly. Little wonder your lonely and can't find anyone to "debate".
@embracingreality And yet here you are, once more unto the breach! LOL! I'm not lonely; it's just that you've been an unceasing font of easy entertainment. It is not I who have changed subjects or deflected with non-sequiturs when unable to respond coherently to a logical point; that accusation I must again place back upon you. If you'd like to return to the central point, I shall then ask the following: (continued)
@Kameha413 I never said men have no sexual responsibility, you decided that was my stance. My actual stance is simple. Both genders have responsibility but women have more sexual power therefore more responsibility. This WILL be my last post. I withdraw.
@embracingreality You never made that statement directly, but that was the implication, given that you said "female chastity and sexual responsibility of women was the plausible solution" and actively downplaying any male responsibility until I started making a case for it. But I applaud you for conceding that men also have responsibility. As to your notion of "sexual power," I think you should consider that sexual allure does NOT equal sociopolitical standing or influence.
@embracingreality When we last left off, you dismissed my life experiences in regard to gender politics as inconsequential, citing 300 million Americans. Fine. So if you wish to discuss this subject on the basis of statistics, your viewpoints seem based on observations given to you by a few married and divorced men that you know. BUT, that sample is statistically insignificant numerically, and far too narrow demographically, to draw any sort of conclusions. Your response?
@embracingreality And on a related, but admittedly tangential note, I direct you to the question I posed to the thread at large at the top of the page. If you care to respond, please do.
a) WOMEN refraining from participating in all manner of porn, prostitution, profiting financially from the objectification of themselves in the media/advertising sexual spectacle, Flaunting their sexuality in public, offering themselves sexually without marriage to any man they deem to have high enough status.
b) MEN refusing to indulge in sexuality as currently offered up to them on a silver platter by promiscuous western women.
@embracingreality So, the crux of your argument is that all premarital sex is the result of promiscuous women? Men have NO responsibility for their sexuality and sexual impulses whatsoever? LOL! In a world in which Viagra, Cialis, and all manner of erectile dysfunction drugs are blithely covered by med insurance, and female birth control is not, THIS is the best "logical" argument you can come up with? LOL!!
@Kameha413 You "LOL" at my suggestion here that female chastity and sexual responsibility of women was the plausible solution? Do you live in the bubble? What I describe is EXACTLY the way it was on average in this country before the feminist sexual revolution and in virtually every society that ever existed in human known history before. Deviations were exceptions to the socially expected standards. Now families that aren't broken are the exception.
@Kameha413 You 'LOL" at the notion of women maintaining their chastity and sexual responsibility as the plausible solution, do you live in a bubble? What I describe is EXACTLY the social expectation of women before the feminist sexual revolution in this country and virtually every other society that existed before the 20th century. Deviations were the exception to the social standards. Now families that are not broken are the exception.
@embracingreality No, I LOL at the fact that you seem to lob all responsibility and blame on women and feminism. Everyone must take responsibility for their sexual activities, men and women. "Women maintaining their chastity..." Why not men maintaining theirs? As I said, it takes TWO to tango. And I hope you are not arguing that just because certain societal standards existed before the 20th century, that it makes them good automatically... ;>)
@embracingreality I'm also intrigued by the "victim" mentality you seem to have, regarding men and their reaction to women. Are you saying that men have an innate inability to control their sexual urges around women? That men can fall victim to feminine wiles, wholly outside their ability to reason and make choices? That seems to be what you're implying, correct me if I'm wrong. That women are temptresses that men must constantly work to resist?
@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of "dirty girls" in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of dirty girls' in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
@embracingreality I certainly do NOT "know" that men are more easily exploited. But I find your non-arguments and language very telling. "Temptation of dirty girls"..."girls gone wild." While you may not have said directly that men were "innocent" or blameless for gender politics or injustice, your words did imply that women are more culpable, and, indeed, you just confirmed that.
@Kameha413 I should have said, "While you may not have said directly that men were "innocent" or blameless IN REGARD TO gender politics or injustice, your words did imply that YOU BELIEVE women are more culpable, and, indeed, you just confirmed that." My bad.
@embracingreality If it's not too forward, I'm still quite fascinated and intrigued as to HOW you formed these opinions of women and gender politics. WHY do you think this way? What in your life has led you to these vehement beliefs? Truly, it is beyond my experience.
@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of -dirty girls- in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of dirty girls' in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
@embracingreality As I said in a different post, I may WANT that triple cheesburger with bacon, but it's my choice whether to eat it. A woman outside my marriage may come on to me, but if I say yes, shame on ME. She may offer it up, but I don't have to say yes.
@embracingreality I'm also intrigued by your seeming anger over this subject. Did someone cheat on you? Or did you cheat on someone, and now you are facing the consequences of that choice? And now trying to slog off the blame for that choice on the woman who led you into temptation? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't MAKE it drink...
@Kameha413 if a girl does it she is a slut, its just how it is and wont change, even if a girl sleeps with me i will still call her a whore and after i finish ruining her i will pay her as a form of insult!! girls just cant do it!!! u know why? coz there never will be a time that a male will be branded as a whore for losing his virginity before marriage, but a female..... all the time and every time!! why risk being called a whore ( as she should be called)?? just close ur damn legs n ur safe!!
Sex before or outside of marriage is asking for trouble. It isn't hard to see this looking around. But, it is and always has been your choice. Choose wisely. Either way the consequences are yours.
It's really disappointing women are having sex before marriage I think that guys who have integrity don't want a used bitch.
BlueRatchet8 3 days ago
There is still a lot of glamour and advertising surrounding the industries pertaining to marriage in terms of wedding dresses and magazine articles on venues and jewellery and gift lists and all of that. However, notice that it is marketed heavily (if not soley) at women.
.
Would it be correct to suggest that it is women who desire western marriage more than men (who desire western marriage)?
.
Ladies, I am fascinated to know. Do you notice how many men do not see anything to gain from marriage?
TableWolfMusic 1 week ago
This video is so true love it :) I'm one of those rare people that's waiting and if it's it's not rare and if theres more out there like me then like my comment I'm intersted to see...
muechacha 2 months ago 5
Amen to the washington post everything they wrote was true to the word. Women who give up their virginity before marriage are whores and should be treated as such. Dresses under the knee are required and should be enforced by law. 100% social conservatives
platinumgoldeneagle 2 months ago
@platinumgoldeneagle 100% sharia law why not same repuggnant views .
woofalot13 1 month ago
Ana you got it backwards. It's why buy the cow if you're getting the milk for free. But I kind of like it your way, Yay free cows
surfric 3 months ago 4
Where do I get this cheap sex !?
mba2ceo 5 months ago
LOL!!! I guess women can't be sexually free and please themselves however they feel.
seeking911 5 months ago
Some folks on this thread have some very, um, unorthodox ideas concerning biology: namely, that men have little or no ability to govern their sex drives, a weakness that women exploit. IF that is true, then are men similarly powerless in other areas of behavior, say, violent impulses? Testosterone is the hormonal fuel for both sex and aggression in men. Therefore, are men similarly unable to control aggressive tendencies? (continued)
Kameha413 5 months ago
IF we take that postulate as a given, then if men should be given less responsibility for sexual choices, should they also be given less responsibility for aggressive behaviors? Conversely, since women have lower testosterone, and are presumably better able to make conscious choices in aggressive situations, should they be judged more harshly than men when it comes to violent crime? I DON"T BELIEVE THIS MIND YOU, but I'm VERY curious as to what some folks on this thread think...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 I can't communicate on your intellectual level considering your vocabulary and so forth. Perhaps I can recommend a youtube video in your league.
"the story of feminism- as told by women"
It features numerous iconic feminists (like Steinem) and last I saw had over 60,000 views. Maybe it will enlighten you further in some way I don't know but It's closer your academics me. Take care.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality Enlighten me? I hope I've done something of that for you. Thoughtful logic will win more for you than a strident and hostile voice. Good luck and godspeed.
Kameha413 5 months ago
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Kameha413 5 months ago
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Kameha413 5 months ago
Wow, that was fascinating. And entertaining. Thanks, everyone, I'll be here all week. Try the veal!
Kameha413 5 months ago
I think this study is right, and that's one of the best things that has happened in history! Why would someone like to go back to the "good old times" when you had to get married in order to get some? Crazy!
MastermindX 5 months ago
yep females have it rough hahaha. better keep them legs mighty shut or else you'll end up on the Maury show begging to know who your baby father is hahahaha.
Croxyndul 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Women who have sex before marriage are basically whores.
MontrealAtheist 5 months ago
I suppose what gets me most is the hypocrisy. Conservatives want so many things stamped out because their very existence (seemingly) offends their sensibilities, even if they have NO exposure to it whatsoever. But as we've seen so often, these are the same things THEY use and abuse behind closed doors. "Oh, sex outside marriage is SO horrible, unless I'm shtupping my secretary, or cruising rent boys, in which case, it ROCKS!!"
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 we all know that any pre marital sex is wrong and if any girl indulges she is a slut!!!!!!
psychick99 5 months ago
@psychick99 If the girl is a slut, what does that make the boy? It takes two to tango...
Kameha413 5 months ago
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Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 humanity did label the male coz he dont lose in this situation! he will be like aaaawwwwww yaaaaa i scored me some tail, the female cant do the same, premarital sex is wrong 4 both ( just to make a point) a girl loses every time, a male wins every time
psychick99 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Which of the two has to trust the others chastity to determine paternity?
Incidentally "tango" is a style of Latin ball room dance not comparable to an act that can produce an 18 year responsibility, especially financially for a man.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality OMG. "Incidentally 'tango' is a style of Latin ball room dance..." Was that an attempt at irony or sarcasm or an insult? You couldn't REALLY intend that as a serious comment...could you...? To make yet another pop cultural reference, "Fascinating..."
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 You seem to be stalking me dear, how very droll. Perhaps you should find a homeless man, They're quite chatty, especially when intoxicated.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality I'm stalking you? ROFLMAO! The "genius" posts multiple times on a public thread and willingly engages in a debate with me, trying desperately, DESPERATELY, to defend his retrograde beliefs, and he claims I'm stalking him? Oh, Sir Reality, I post because, so far at least, you willingly reply, and I despair of you retiring so early from the field. But, I do sincerely thank you for the jousting. It was the most fun I've had on a thread in many a day! (continued)
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality But, if the best a "genius" can do when backed into a logical and rhetorical corner with no weapons left to him is to put up his helm (or lob vague and juvenile insults behind him as he flees, gibbering), then so be it. BUT, true to my word, I will neither confirm nor deny my gender, as I'm sure you feared I might, though I have left many (admittedly inadvertent) clues. However, this leaves you with the possibility that you were bested, BESTED, by a WOMAN. Fare thee well!
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality Oh, sorry, one more thing. Despite your occasional correct use of vocabulary like "droll" in an attempt to project a "genius" intelligence you clearly do not possess, your dismissal of the basic tenets of fluid intelligence and your woeful writing ability clearly give you away. I wouldn't pull that one out again. ;>)
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 A champ ;)
MastermindX 5 months ago
Their comments about young marrige are so true. I have some wacky christian right relatives, and I have met members of their church who get married at like 18 and 19 years old. I am 28 and engaged, and I even feel kind of young to get married sometimes. Oh, and funny thing, my fiancee still wants to marry me, and we've already had tons of sex. Conservatives are anti-woman. period.
septogram7 5 months ago
The reason women even talk about premarital sex is because they don't want to seem like they have loose vaginas. Everyone knows they are having it, not with you corny ass losers. But with me.
Wisemer8 6 months ago
Listeeeeen! I don't give a shit, women can have as much sex with as many different men as they like. I just never read the rule book that says I have to marry them and take them seriously for relationships afterwards.Women's lib. Go for it "girlfriend"!
fomiz 6 months ago
i'm ok if a women has had sex before,but in no way will i be attracted to a whore. you know what i mean. like if the girl i liked had sex with like 45 dudes which included orgy,umm i would stay the fuck away. shows how much you think of your body. plus,will the love be real? i mean sex is supposed to be another way to be intimate. will a whore value that time as much as me? this goes for both gender. there has to be a line i think.
LysergIY 7 months ago
Why buy a cow that gives milk away for free to whoever? You know damn good and well once you buy it the milk is going to dry up! Then the cow gets FAT, maxes out your credit cards and with a sense of entitlement drags you to court, takes your money and your house?
Seriously, WHY???
embracingreality 7 months ago
So that article proves not only that the writers at the Washington Times are filthy misogynists, demonizing women who choose to have sex before they're married, but that they also are making a general statement that men can't possibly want to get married if there is no promise of sex! Wow, what a bunch of retards! I hope they never get laid again. I hope that they never find a place to put their tiny, shriveled, uncircumcised cock in ever EVER again, because they don't deserve women (OR MEN).
hatzu8 7 months ago
@hatzu8 Huh? Never get laid? How is that even possible? You silly women are so busy giving sex away for free that the professionals are literally on sale! Sex with a young, fit attractive woman can be bought in america for less than $100, easily. Actually well less than that but why would a guy want to pay less than $100? American women are considered the easiest in the whole damn world. Did women actually think that they were going to be highly respected by men after the sexual revolution? XD
embracingreality 7 months ago
@embracingreality Are you retarded? Well, I know you are because you used an "XD" face. You are probably the dumbest person on the fucking planet, if you didn't understand what I was trying to say. If you seriously can't grasp it, well I hope you have your helmet on.
hatzu8 7 months ago
This is why we keep religion out the bedroom!
Augustchica814 7 months ago
Marriage serves no rational purpose. The only difference between marriage and a standard relationship is that it is more expensive to get a divorce than it is to break up with someone.
Ghost0630 7 months ago
If a man has a lot of sex, he's a God. If a woman has a lot of sex, she's a slut.
Enough with the double-standards already.
LadyRuin2012 7 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
@LadyRuin2012 "If a man has a lot of sex, he's a God. If a woman has a lot of sex, she's a slut.
Enough with the double-standards already."
So in your opinion, men should be considered sluts as well if they are sexually active?
nosajj12345 7 months ago
@LadyRuin2012 If a man hits a woman, he's a Monster. If a woman hits a man, she's a hero
Enough with the double-standards already.
Please see that double standards are on both sides, both are also wrong.
BigBis1337 7 months ago
Why do people have to stick there noses in outer peoples genitals?! leave us alone for fuck sake.!!
Partyffs 7 months ago
@Partyffs I totally agree!
Augustchica814 7 months ago
Omg Anna just quoted Caboose from Red vs. Blue.
Yamikaiba123 8 months ago
@sluggdiddyyddidgguls i know many people who waited until they were married to have sex, and they are still together, unlike millions and millions of others.
elmirasahar 8 months ago
@elmirasahar "i know many people who waited until they were married to have sex, and they are still together, unlike millions and millions of others."
Just because a couple remains together doesn't mean they're happy together. I highly doubt U are in any position to determine whether or not these couples you speak of are truly content to remain together. Virgin marriages almost always end in disaster for myriad reasons and I doubt the coupes you speak of are an exception.
nosajj12345 7 months ago
@Psycho5275 when did i say they can't have sex?
elmirasahar 8 months ago
@SeriouslyPissedOff yes. and its not weird, it was a normal thing until recently.
elmirasahar 8 months ago
@elmirasahar There's your red flag right there. Recently people have become a lot more open minded and intelligent. If it's a personal choice, then dude, whatever you're missing out on some of the most intimate and close relationships of your life. But if its honestly for some religious shit..man Sorry you had to grow up with that shit. I hope for your sake, one day, you're free
SeriouslyPissedOff 8 months ago
Women being whores is a serious problem, it creates ALOT of BROKEN HOMES thats a FACT. There are a shitload of broken homes today compared to 60-70years ago. The Article should've touched on alot more.
Girls having sex does pressure other girls to have sex, in any major city throughout this country females are sleeping around at a much younger age, having kids they clearly cannot afford to have nor are they prepared to take care of. Yet these two idiots on this show think thats fine?
Ghenjiskhan 8 months ago
why would me at number 45+ marry you remember women lie down
master11422 8 months ago
America is socially behind. Europe is far more accepting of people. It's sad.
MCsuperChristina 8 months ago
my former roommate (a mormon) met a guy over spring break and decided to get married that summer. They both were "saving it" for their wedding night, but I can't count the number of times she whined to me about how she can't wait to kiss him and have sex. People who get married JUST to have sex are stupid. Marriage is "supposed" to be a special commitment to a person you want to spend your entire life with, not just as an outlet for your sexually deprived self.
blue4arekkusu 8 months ago
I love the way this issue is always about rights and no one talks about responsibility.
Not just hers, but both parties. I am all for rights, but I also believe that we would have less problems with issues like this or abortion if more people took responsibility for their actions. Actually learn what things cause and what effect they will have on your life and minimize the risks. you would not jump out of an airplane without knowing the risks and minimizing them. or maybe you would...
fatlazyidiotamerican 8 months ago 7
ANA I love you but you pulled a BUSH with that saying. Its "Why buy the COW if you get the MILK for free?" not the other way around.
RelativistSlayer 8 months ago
LOL so when a guy has sex with some girl, the guys friends all encourage him and call the girl he slept with a whore?
WhereNoFanHasGoneB4 8 months ago
there is a double standard but hey if my dick shrank every time I had sex I'd limit my sexual partners before marriage ....
alanshanelewis 8 months ago
I do understand the housing market analogy. Other than that. . . really Washington Times? Really??
1ipstick 8 months ago
We have a 60% divorce rate in this country.....maybe that might have something to do with it! Marriage in America sucks. Stay single fellas, just date, the long term prospect is not too promising.
nagone11 8 months ago
@nagone11 Exactly, why would you marry a whore which is pretty much all you find in this country hit it quit it thats wassup, if you want a real women you can head to just about any other place in the world.
Ghenjiskhan 8 months ago
Sooooo...within all this talk of premarital sex, why are these pundits focusing on women not giving it up, but not on men controlling their rampant urges? Because it's okay for men to have premarital sex (presumably with "sluts" unworthy of eventual matrimony), because that's just the way men are? Are we REALLY going that backwards in gender sociopolitics? Back to the good ol' boy double standard? I fear for my daughters having to navigate this sort of misogynistic CRAP...
Kameha413 8 months ago 21
@Kameha413 Then tell your daughters to actually date a guy they like, and not some douche bag that is socially, or economically viable to their pathetic narcissistic needs. Oh, wait, we will see how well that goes down... You see, it's really the double standard that comes from the out of control neo-feminism that creates a situation for women to have their cake and eat it too. Now that women have the same economic opportunities, they all want MORE, not someone equal.
Orion1232 7 months ago
@Orion1232 How do you come to the conclusion that my children are pathetic and narcissistic? Just because I would want them judged to the same standards as men in the area of sexuality does not make them either. Though from your rant, I could surmise you are merely projecting your own emotional shortcomings...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Nope, merely commenting on the dredge culture of media pushing young minds into banal existences. My point being that not even you will be able to control your kid once they are brainwashed by network tv, and jersey shore type shows. And yes, it will lead to narcissism. It's what sells, and what people, especially the highest buying power demographic, teenage girls, want. A media saturated with the idea that their bodies are for sale, even if it's done subtlety.
Orion1232 5 months ago
@Orion1232 My aim is not to "control" my kids, but teach them to think rationally for themselves. They are definitely more discerning than you would make them out to be. Even at tender primary school age, they understand that commercials are merely tools to try to sell them things. More than once I've heard them observe, after another "seen on tv" ad, "That can't be as good as they say. They just want you to buy it." Pretty good start, I'd say.
Kameha413 5 months ago
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Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 Oh, and if you were speaking of "dredge" culture in general, rather than my daughters, your choice of phrasing was rather poor. The words, "Tell your daughters...viable to their pathetic narcissistic..." very much suggest the latter, and not the former. Sort of the difference between, "You are a misogynistic troglodyte with no rhetorical skills," and, "Some men in our society are misogynistic troglodytes..." Just saying...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 The demographic that enables this culture of so called "misogynistic troglodytes" are TEENAGE girls! LOL It's quite sad, because what the whole feminist movement was about was removing the attached attitude associated with the submissive, shameful of their bodies, social roles being pushed by society. Yet, nowadays, females are free to work, be equal, YET choose the culture of being the whore. Just look around, guys don't buy cosmo, watch jersey shore, or choose for females to do that
Orion1232 5 months ago
@Orion1232 LOL! Because corporate executives choose to push overly sexualized media and products to young girls, young girls are to blame for misogyny in our culture! Oh, that's too rich! *gasp* Let me catch my breath...misogyny has existed for as long as humans have, so I wouldn't be putting the main blame on Cosmo or Jersey Shore (which both hit a slightly older demographic, I might add). Oh, my goodness...ROFLMAO!
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 Okay, so let's take your postulate as a given for just a split-second...then what explains misogyny BEFORE feminism? Just plain old gender prejudice back in the old days? Okay. So then the gender prejudice of pre-feminism has been replaced post-feminism by the whore-ish nature of young teenage girls...? ....No, no, it still sounds like the gender prejudice thing to me.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 I also notice you dodge my point about how your words could be taken as disparaging my daughters, intended or not. To be somewhat pre-feminist about it, that's not being particularly chivalrous to a pair of primary school-age girls, isn't it? They aren't even anywhere NEAR to the teenage, whore-ish stage you talk about!
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 You also seem very fixated on the whole teenage whore thing. Okay, so what's the exact psychological and/or sociological mechanism for teenage whores creating feelings or expressions of misogyny in males? What level and type of of stimuli are required to trigger the effect? How does the effect play out in different demographic groups? Does the effect wax, wane, or maintain over time? Is regular exposure to whore stimuli required to maintain the effect?
Kameha413 5 months ago
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Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 Of, if you want to look at your assertion in a different way, let's look at prejudice against Native Americans, which you cite as your ethnicity on your profile. If we follow your logic, children who are fans of the Cleveland Indians, or of old-time cowboy movies, somehow "enable" bigots who hate Native Americans, bigots who have no direct connection to or knowledge of these particular children or their views, except that some exist in our society. Your response?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 Or, to make the logical connections even simpler: to use your logic, you would be justified in hating my two little primary-school-age girls, unknown to you, by dint of their just being female (the very definition of misogyny), because some quantity of teenage girls out in the wide world, who you do not know or have any meaningful connection with, are "whores" in your learned opinion? Is that REALLY where you stand? Because that's essentially what you've been arguing.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 As an aside, does your Native American culture espouse misogyny of the kind you seem to advocate? Or are you merely taking a 19th-century Euro-centric stance on gender politics? The same Euro-centric culture that deemed Native Americans as less than human? Just wondering...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 No, i think you are the on who is insulting here. By your very victim mentality you seem to espouse, you are the one who is being the misogynist. You think women are incapable of making choices? You think they are too stupid to think for their own? I simply point out that they should take some responsibility and you retort with the obtuse ramblings of a small child. I asked once again, who enables this perpetuation? If we don't make up our own minds, who does?
Orion1232 5 months ago
@Orion1232 LOL! I'm the one being insulting? By merely pointing out the rhetorical and logical flaws (and corollaries) in your expressed beliefs? And in way of response, I notice you lamely dodge every question and challenge I put to you concerning your very clear disparagement of women in general, and not just the "teenage whores" you say "enable" misogyny, which seemingly means, in your mind, they are the root cause.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 As for your repeated assertion about "teenage whores" being "enablers," to quote The Princess Bride,"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." If you mean to say that the behavior of a certain teen demographic (or is it all teen girls?) is the major catalyst for misogyny in our society, then once again I ask: what's the exact psychological and/or sociological connection or mechanism at work? Begin by laying it out, step by step.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 Even if we accept some sort of causal effect, think about the level of impact you're implying. You speak as if this teenage whoredom is something that gravely oppresses every male in our society on a very personal level, to the extent that a person decides not to judge females individually upon their merits and demerits, and then hate an entire gender without any due consideration. It seems to me the "teenage whore effect" is just a lame excuse for prejudice.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 One more thing (and I do admit this is an aside). You said, "your victim mentality" to me. Like the other fellow I was debating, do you think I'm a woman? What do you think, one way or the other, and why? Like I told the other guy, I've left a lot of clues. I'm wondering if you picked up on them. Just curious. Despite my challenging tone, I find personalities like yours (and embracingreality's) fascinating studies, and like to explore what makes you tick.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 Okay, one more thing that I just can't resist pointing out. Once guys like you have been backed into a rhetorical corner, you always try to minimize past statements. You called women in general pathetic, narcissistic, and whores. You didn't qualify that in any way, shape or form. Now you claim that you merely "point out that they should take some responsibility." ROFLMAO! Like I said to Sir Reality, hoist and petard and all that...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Orion1232 And what's the matter with my "ramblings?" As far as I can see, I've mainly attempted to deconstruct your beliefs regarding misogyny, proposed corollaries to your beliefs and asked for your feedback (to establish a better basis for debate), and commented on your thought processes. There's nothing there that I see as particularly obtuse. My arguments, comments and questions, and the reasons behind them, aren't THAT tough to follow, are they?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Yea, I must be Mysogonist. That's what you have called me. Funny how the victim role suddenly turns into "empowerment", when it's the exact opposite. Like I said, the very core enablers of this are the biggest demographic of those with the most purchasing power. Dumb teenage girls. I am sorry, but no man is buying Cosmo, or watching Jersey Shore. Women are the victims of their own demise. I don't say that men don't take responsibility, but the influence of media mold girls minds.
Orion1232 4 months ago
@Orion1232 After three weeks that's the best you can come up? A lazy reiteration of nonsense? Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. There's not even a logical train of thought, and in no way do you engage any of the questions or issues I've raised in a coherent way. No sense trying to discuss seriously with someone who can't even come up with a good "troll" response. *yawn* At least Sir Reality was entertaining.
Kameha413 4 months ago
@Orion1232 You can't even come up with a causal linkage between what teen girls buy and watch on TV, and how this supposedly "enables" (there's that word again) misogyny. Talk about lazy...at least have the guts (if not the brains) to explain your views clearly and succinctly. But if you were merely being a troll and are not really a passionate misogynist, as I suspect, I imagine that the game has just grown boring for you, and thus the lack of effort. Ah, well...
Kameha413 4 months ago
@Kameha413 You're right. It's not the media at all. It's the parents.
Orion1232 3 months ago
@Orion1232 Helloooooo?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Your post would make a lot more sense if you define your stance. In other words, are you a Christian?
nosajj12345 7 months ago
@nosajj12345 I think I've made my viewpoint clear. I also don't see how my having a professed faith or not enters into this discussion. You don't need religion to have morality. I don't need to be religious to want my kids NOT to have pre-marital sex, or to be given the social burden of having to police the sexual urges of every man they meet (the men should do THAT themselves...what are they? savages?), or to have them judged more harshly than men if they do have premarital sex.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Simple biology. Promiscuity will always be a bigger detriment to a woman's social value because a man can't trust a woman to give birth to his children. If she's promiscuous he could end up tricked into raising other men's children. No matter how many other women a man may sleep with a woman will always know that any child she gives birth to is hers. It's a simple biological imperative. No amount of "equal rights" or social acceptance will ever change basic biological programming.
embracingreality 7 months ago
@embracingreality So "biology" justifies a skewed social contract/construct? We're not more sophisticated than that as a society? That's aiming pretty low as a species. I would hope we could use our intelligence, compassion and discernment to counter prejudice and injustice.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Biology, like gravity, is a natural phenomenon. Social behaviors developed quite obviously as a result of these fixed, non-negotiable factors. Society was more sophisticated, now women commonly have the chastity of animals, it wasn't always the case. If your not aware of history outside your bubble nearly every past society that has existed had marriage and female chastity as it's baseline. Look at the results on parenting/family since the sexual revolution. Society is now devolving.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality Biology is just one factor among many influences in life. Nature and nurture. Biology does not determine my or my children's ability to think logically and rise above base impulses or outside social pressures. To follow your "logic," if boys are more prone to being aggressive, should we just accept bullying from them because it is part of their biology? I think not. You seem extremely fatalistic...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Biology dear, is the primary reason why creatures reproduce it's the baseline. And the subject was female promiscuity. A woman who's chastity cannot be trusted will always be biologically less desirable. No man knowingly wants to raise the offspring of every fertile male in the neighborhood. Nature can't afford it.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality Reproduction is not the sole purpose of sex, as your own railing against promiscuity attests. Promiscuity doesn;t have anything to do with reproduction per se, though it usually has everything to do with pleasure and gratification. And again, sex and promiscuity cannot exist without two partners. I just don't see how it's all the woman's responsibility or fault. You still haven't answered that.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Simple supply and demand. Except for the last few decades throughout history in most cultures women "controlled men's rampant urges". Young women were taught to withhold sex until marriage and most did consequently men had few sexual options except to marry and commit. Women had a LOT of power through withholding sexuality. Enter feminism/sexual revolution, women gave the power away. Now single men get sex easily without commitment but if they marry sex is often denied.
Brilliant..
embracingreality 7 months ago
@embracingreality Women had a lot of power withholding their sexuality? In the upper classes, perhaps, but not for most women. Men DIDN'T control their urges, they just used women who were of lower class for that purpose, if one of equal or higher status was not available. They either paid for it, or coerced it out of women they controlled through social or economic means, and could far more often walk away from the consequences.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 The fact that prostitution has always existed hardly establishes it as the past norm. Most women did withhold sex, ask them! These people aren't all in the cemetery dear.. Any woman or man over the age of 60 can tell you that men married, and married young in the past largely because of sex. Deviations don't disprove it and nobody said that sex was exclusively the reason. It's called drive. The notion that most people were operating in "patriarchal oppression" is a feminist fantasy.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality LOL! I'm not talking about prostitution. I AM talking about the "patriarchal oppression" you seem to dismiss. Your seeming denial of patriarchal social pressures certainly doesn't cancel out its existence, past or present. It's not "feminist" to acknowldge the still-extant imbalance of gender power. That's one of the things I'm arming my children against.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 What "still-extant imbalance of gender power"? In pakistan? Feminism is mute in the third world. In the US?
Women;
Have the right to vote but are free from the military draft.
90% of child custody awarded to women even when contested?
Alimony is nearly exclusively inflicted on men.
94% of workplace fatalities are men, 80% of homeless.
Women still expect men to pay for dates, gifts, rings, weddings everything...
Your right about the imbalance, MEN ARE OPPRESSED!
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality Men are oppressed? In caps and with an exclamation point? I'm guessing you're speaking to a personal situation. I will give you that in some areas of life and social contracts, women are given preferential treatment. But in the majority of other areas, men still are given precedence in general. If there is something in your personal experience of which you speak, I'm sorry for your circumstances, but as a gender as a whole, men are hardly the most downtrodden.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 How painfully predictable you are, attempting to undermine my points with shaming language. NO dear, I've avoided destruction in my personal life by avoiding marriage and not having children. Unlike my friends (around whom I'm considered a genius) I don't have a manipulating, controlling woman tied around my neck like a dead chicken. Women treat me equally in relationships or get abandoned fast.
Anger? Absolutely! Everyone with any sense should be angry at what our society has become.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality LOL! I was merely trying to get at the crux of your very pronounced anger. I still don't know the font from which it springs, but your words definitely betray your general attitude towards women. I do plead guilty to trying to goad you into answering pointed questions, yes, which you seem to avoid. Genius? Not from what I've witnessed from you so far.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 If you could see my position in life by comparison to those men I know who have been virtually destroyed emotionally, financially by ex-wives, lawyers and the state you would see why men I know have literally called me a genius (I don't profess to be as my I.Q. is around 130 and 140+ is required to be a genius). Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them though as they see women as the enemy. Many men do. Doubt it?
Google "why young men are avoiding marriage"
Try it..
embracingreality 5 months ago
@Kameha413 If you could see my position in life by comparison to those men I know who have been virtually destroyed emotionally, financially by ex-wives, lawyers and the state you would see why men I know have literally called me a genius. I don't profess to be, my I.Q. is around 130 and 140+ is required to be a genius. Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them though as they see women as the enemy. Many men do. Doubt it?
Google "why young men are avoiding marriage"
Try it..
embracingreality 5 months ago
@Kameha413 If you could see my position in life by comparison to those men I know who have been virtually destroyed emotionally, financially by ex-wives, lawyers and the state you would see why men I know have literally called me a genius. I don't profess to be, my I.Q. is around 130 and 140+ is required to be a genius. Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them though as they see women as the enemy. Many men do. Doubt it?
Google "why young men are avoiding marriage"
Try it..
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality Apologies, you ARE answering my questions, after a fashion, though I certainly disagree with your viewpoints. You don't profess to be a genius, but if you truly were humble about that aspect of yourself, you wouldn't tout others calling you that. That's also telling. But that's beside the larger point. I'm sure many men have come out of divorce badly, but I don't see the connection between that and people at large taking equal responsibility for their sexual activities.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality And I don't doubt that many men believe that women are "the enemy." I just don't believe that that is some sort of universal truth. Call me silly, call me whatever, but hey, that's just me. So, because of the experience of some divorced men you know, all women are the enemy. What about all the other men you know? Do you know any men outside of that demographic? What's the ratio of divorced and devastated, versus other groups, if you want to look at this statiscally?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality Oh, one more aside. If you don't mind, which test or tests did you take to arrive at your IQ score, and how long ago was this measured? Is your score a ratio score? What was the standard deviation set at?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Even more to the point, I suppose, is how was g subdivided, and what were the results? Did you test any narrow abilities? What were they, and their results?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality AND you seem to think of prostitution in the past as some form of empowerment for women, when it was most often actually the opposite: the objectification and commoditization of a woman's sexuality, most often by men, most likely to the detriment of the prostitutes.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Sophisticated forms of prostitution empowers women NOW. Porn, soft and hard. Female sexualized media, advertising is all about whores and their pimps exploiting resources out of the male population. The whores in question profit and sometimes profit immensely from the scam.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality In some situations, perhaps, amongst those at the top of the adult entertainment industry in this country. But I don't think you'd get that viewpoint from the majority of sex workers, especially the exploited young people kidnapped or otherwise exploited around the world by criminal enterprises, large and small. I don't think they are profiting immensely.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Do you honestly compare the female sexualized, enormous major media which oppresses men with a constant bombardment of images to exploit their resources to the tiny minority of "exploited" female sex workers that may be forced, in a country where it is completely illegal?
Your wasting my time.
Men are oppressed, I showed you why with just a few reasons among many more.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality Tiny minority? LOL! Men are oppressed, bombarded by porn? LMAO! In my experience, in my everyday life, porn I see must be sought out. True, mass media has a lot of salacious imagery, but I choose to ignore it. I'm sorry to be wasting your time, but I'm finding our exchange to be quite intriguing. I do find your views fascinating, though I vehemently disagree.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Your experience? That is the crux of the matter of your opinions, made impulsively based on your feelings and emotions from your experiences... Hell. It's not about you dear or me. There are 300 million people in the US. Do you propose we discuss them all on an individual basis? Statistics on sexualized media images and pornography and gender targets of each are readily available right here online. The same for family past and present. I'm done debating this in a 500 character post.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality LOL! I'm just fascinated by this place in which you live, in which you are incessantly bombarded and oppressed by porn. Can you avoid it at all? Or just ignore it? I don't THINK I live in a particularly sanitized part of the country, well populated, fairly urban, fairly sophisticated, with its share of high and low entertainment. But you sound positively BESIEGED. "Porn at three o'clock high! Evasive manuevers!"
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality Impulsively? No. Taking in the sum of my life experiences, yes, but certainly that's what we all do. And I certainly think that what you espouse is DEFINITELY all about you.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality You're done? Too bad. I was rather enjoying the exchange, to see what rhetorical knots you could tie yourself in next, to see what kinds of misogynistic statements you would spout. Ah, well. To quote Obi-Wan, "Run, Luke, run!!"
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality BTW, on your reasoning for giving up the debate, I imagine a "genius" could find a way to make cogent arguments in 500 words or less. You might wish to re-think calling out that appellation in relation to yourself; it just calls to mind Wile E. Coyote...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 But the appellation wasn't made by me, as I pointed out, it was made by several married and divorced men I know. You manipulate, yawn... Are the statistics I gave you, which you ignored, about me? Do libraries contain 500 character books? Is THIS the only way you can get men to talk to you? The world I live in has a percentage of single women at about 51, and growing.
Thanks for reminding me why I'm better off single.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality No, you just claim that others applied the appellation to you, which is really the same thing. Why the need to call attention to it, to bolster your bona fides? A "genius" wouldn't need to. A "genius" would just make cogent arguments, without pulling out meaningless and unattributed statistics which have no bearing on the issue at hand. As for 500 character books, does a "genius" need an entire book to debate a point?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality I manipulate you, a genius? Wow, score one for me, then. As for your world containing 51 percent women and growing, that's fab. I didn't complain about the percentage in my world. I'm perfectly content with the percentage in my world, AND women aren't even the enemy in my world. What's the point of that statement? Or the statement about being better off single? What does any of that that have to do with personal responsibility in gender politics? Enlighten me, please.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality P.S. I'm glad to see that you're not "done," and are still engaging. I find this exchange fascinating.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality Oh, wait, wait, wait...something just occurred to me. What gender do you think I am?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Regardless of the next manipulative lie you would tell me I expect your some unfortunate combination of the two... My sympathies.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality Seriously, I'm VERY curious as to which gender you really think I am. I've made a supposition based on your responses, and I'd like to confirm or deny my hypothesis. If you TRULY think I'm being manipulative (and, of course, shouldn't a "genius" be able to dodge any rhetorical or logical tricks I might employ?) I pledge to neither confirm nor deny either way, if that would make you feel better. I'd just like to prove or disprove my theory to myself.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality Oh, and I'm very interested as to your reasoning for whatever conclusion you come to, if you would be so kind.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality Wait, hold on, I missed the exact wording of one of your responses: "Your female opinion doesn't matter much to them..." I thought your addressing me condescendingly as "dear" at times was merely a verbal affectation (I've been reading too much Patrick O'Brian of late, I suppose), but I must conclude you think I'm a woman. Okay. Got it. How did you come to that conclusion? I'm dying to hear your train of thought on this. Or am I wrong?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality Oh, and one other thing I can't resist pointing out is that I'm not manipulating you or this conversation. In what way exactly do you mean? How? No, what I think you really mean to say is that I am twisting your words. I'd have to disagree on that. Not so much twisting as using them (and the apparent attitudes and ideas behind them) very effectively against you. Hoist and petard and all that. And you said, "the next manipulative lie..." What lie have I told?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 But your approval of me, my writing is inconsequential to me and more importantly to the subject of this post which you change ceaselessly. Little wonder your lonely and can't find anyone to "debate".
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality And yet here you are, once more unto the breach! LOL! I'm not lonely; it's just that you've been an unceasing font of easy entertainment. It is not I who have changed subjects or deflected with non-sequiturs when unable to respond coherently to a logical point; that accusation I must again place back upon you. If you'd like to return to the central point, I shall then ask the following: (continued)
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 I never said men have no sexual responsibility, you decided that was my stance. My actual stance is simple. Both genders have responsibility but women have more sexual power therefore more responsibility. This WILL be my last post. I withdraw.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality You never made that statement directly, but that was the implication, given that you said "female chastity and sexual responsibility of women was the plausible solution" and actively downplaying any male responsibility until I started making a case for it. But I applaud you for conceding that men also have responsibility. As to your notion of "sexual power," I think you should consider that sexual allure does NOT equal sociopolitical standing or influence.
Kameha413 5 months ago
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Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality When we last left off, you dismissed my life experiences in regard to gender politics as inconsequential, citing 300 million Americans. Fine. So if you wish to discuss this subject on the basis of statistics, your viewpoints seem based on observations given to you by a few married and divorced men that you know. BUT, that sample is statistically insignificant numerically, and far too narrow demographically, to draw any sort of conclusions. Your response?
Kameha413 5 months ago
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Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality And on a related, but admittedly tangential note, I direct you to the question I posed to the thread at large at the top of the page. If you care to respond, please do.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 Which seems more plausible to you?
a) WOMEN refraining from participating in all manner of porn, prostitution, profiting financially from the objectification of themselves in the media/advertising sexual spectacle, Flaunting their sexuality in public, offering themselves sexually without marriage to any man they deem to have high enough status.
b) MEN refusing to indulge in sexuality as currently offered up to them on a silver platter by promiscuous western women.
Honestly, which?
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality So, the crux of your argument is that all premarital sex is the result of promiscuous women? Men have NO responsibility for their sexuality and sexual impulses whatsoever? LOL! In a world in which Viagra, Cialis, and all manner of erectile dysfunction drugs are blithely covered by med insurance, and female birth control is not, THIS is the best "logical" argument you can come up with? LOL!!
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 You "LOL" at my suggestion here that female chastity and sexual responsibility of women was the plausible solution? Do you live in the bubble? What I describe is EXACTLY the way it was on average in this country before the feminist sexual revolution and in virtually every society that ever existed in human known history before. Deviations were exceptions to the socially expected standards. Now families that aren't broken are the exception.
You can thank your feminism for that.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@Kameha413 You 'LOL" at the notion of women maintaining their chastity and sexual responsibility as the plausible solution, do you live in a bubble? What I describe is EXACTLY the social expectation of women before the feminist sexual revolution in this country and virtually every other society that existed before the 20th century. Deviations were the exception to the social standards. Now families that are not broken are the exception.
You can thank feminism for that.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality No, I LOL at the fact that you seem to lob all responsibility and blame on women and feminism. Everyone must take responsibility for their sexual activities, men and women. "Women maintaining their chastity..." Why not men maintaining theirs? As I said, it takes TWO to tango. And I hope you are not arguing that just because certain societal standards existed before the 20th century, that it makes them good automatically... ;>)
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality I'm also intrigued by the "victim" mentality you seem to have, regarding men and their reaction to women. Are you saying that men have an innate inability to control their sexual urges around women? That men can fall victim to feminine wiles, wholly outside their ability to reason and make choices? That seems to be what you're implying, correct me if I'm wrong. That women are temptresses that men must constantly work to resist?
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of "dirty girls" in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of dirty girls' in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality I certainly do NOT "know" that men are more easily exploited. But I find your non-arguments and language very telling. "Temptation of dirty girls"..."girls gone wild." While you may not have said directly that men were "innocent" or blameless for gender politics or injustice, your words did imply that women are more culpable, and, indeed, you just confirmed that.
Kameha413 5 months ago
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@Kameha413 I should have said, "While you may not have said directly that men were "innocent" or blameless IN REGARD TO gender politics or injustice, your words did imply that YOU BELIEVE women are more culpable, and, indeed, you just confirmed that." My bad.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality If it's not too forward, I'm still quite fascinated and intrigued as to HOW you formed these opinions of women and gender politics. WHY do you think this way? What in your life has led you to these vehement beliefs? Truly, it is beyond my experience.
Kameha413 5 months ago
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@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of -dirty girls- in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
embracingreality 5 months ago
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@Kameha413 You know as well as I do that men are far more easily exploited with their sexual desires than women are, everyone knows it. Yes men who succumbed to the temptation of dirty girls' in times past were responsible for their failures to avoid such women. In a nation of girls gone wild, It's become much more difficult. Nobody ever said men were innocent, I can't imagine why you would make such an assumption. I do however Maintain that women are MORE to blame for the current debacle.
embracingreality 5 months ago
@embracingreality As I said in a different post, I may WANT that triple cheesburger with bacon, but it's my choice whether to eat it. A woman outside my marriage may come on to me, but if I say yes, shame on ME. She may offer it up, but I don't have to say yes.
Kameha413 5 months ago
@embracingreality I'm also intrigued by your seeming anger over this subject. Did someone cheat on you? Or did you cheat on someone, and now you are facing the consequences of that choice? And now trying to slog off the blame for that choice on the woman who led you into temptation? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't MAKE it drink...
Kameha413 5 months ago
@Kameha413 if a girl does it she is a slut, its just how it is and wont change, even if a girl sleeps with me i will still call her a whore and after i finish ruining her i will pay her as a form of insult!! girls just cant do it!!! u know why? coz there never will be a time that a male will be branded as a whore for losing his virginity before marriage, but a female..... all the time and every time!! why risk being called a whore ( as she should be called)?? just close ur damn legs n ur safe!!
psychick99 5 months ago
@psychick99 troll harder.
MissTemperence 5 months ago
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@psychick99 So, if you have sex with a girl, she is a slut. Are you are...? LOL!!
Kameha413 5 months ago
Sex before or outside of marriage is asking for trouble. It isn't hard to see this looking around. But, it is and always has been your choice. Choose wisely. Either way the consequences are yours.
averyblessedguy 8 months ago