@Jubileeme Ok she'll be 30 by the time the next Slam comes around she's won 13 therefore she needs to win 12 more slams in order to do that. Lets face it she's not winning the French anytime soon so she's therefore at best needing to win 3 Slams for the next FOUR consequtive years to do this. NOT going to happen - I think she'll end up with 17 Slams before she calls it quits. It doesn't look like it right now but I'm sure someone can and will come along to beat her Kvitova possibly being one.
It is hard to believe the claims re this "new generation" of women's tennis when you consider that Serena was beaten here in Steffi's last year on the circuit. Another thing: speed and power go up at least partly on account of racquets, not unbelievable increase in physical strength. Henin most certainly wasn't as powerful a hitter as Graf. Lastly, tennis is as much about placement, direction and tactics as about power and speed.
Steffi was a great athlete, very effective forehand, nice serve. Her greatest power was her mobility. She is the best tennis player for her movement around the court in history. No one can be as good as her ever in footwork and speed. But sorry the next generation number 1´s have so many weapons in their arsenal. Serena, Venus, Justine Henin.... too good for steffi.
Have you ever played with those rackets Steffi used 20 years ago?
No?
Thought so ...
BTW, Kimiko Date said recently that Steffi needed only to exercise a little bit and then could return to the game in order to beat the current top players. You know, this Japanese chick who was a top-5 player in the mid-90s and who won 5 of 10 matches against the top-15 players in 2010.
These woman have produced some great tennis over the years. I agree, why compare. I find them all great. It's going to be a while for someone to win 22 Grand Slams like Steffi Graf. Let's not forget the Golden Slam when she won all 4 Grand Slams and a Gold Medal in 1988. Folks be greatful we got to see these women produce some great tennis.
@jafarhie If Monica Seles wasn't stabbed. She would have beaten the shit out of Serena Black Shit Williams many times. It should be the black shit being stabbed, not Monica.
@beavertown2006 Serena the dominating black princess/Great White hope destroyer of the WTA wasn't even a top player during the Steffi/Monica era. Check your facts you White dragon. lol. You're such an idiot.
I love Steffi and I think she had and still has an incredible body and is one of the greatest players of all time but, most of her success is due to Monica being stabbed. She would have not had so many accomplishments had that stabbing never took place. I Love them both and That incident changed tennis history for sure!!
Even post-stabbing she won most slams on surfaces where Seles never was able to beat her (Wimbledon, USO). And a few on clay (FO), where she was equal to Seles (even beating her in 1999).
Which slams do you think Steffi could not have won without the stabbing???
This match was grueling. Wasn't this the same tournament that Steffi beat both the Williams sisters? Steffi was in and out the years prior because of injury. She was coming back from this injuries in 1999. The aging Graf beating young bucks like these sisters is amazing!
It is very sad to see that steffi graf won 22 grand slams 11 of them done after stabbing Monica Seles. And steffi knew that is her chance so she had no fear and did her best. She is so lucky, all things were set up for her all she had to do was step up on court.
@MrZebraZombie I agree Venus and Serena can beat Steffi if all were in the prime. The reason why Steffi won so many slams was due to lack of competition: Seles was injured and Martina was getting old. Steffi cannot handle the power of Venus or Serena. Steffi could barely handle Seles, who won 3 straight French Open while Steffi was in her prime. The Sisters possess the biggest serve and can cover the court like nobody could.
LOL! lack of competition?? if anything, the williams sisters are the ones w/o proper competition! who will this competition be exactly? capriati? (as if! most overrated player ever)? davenport and hingis were washed out by 2001. and when henin made her rise, she dominated them both (the williams' that is). This new era of tennis , if anything, is the most poor one - when anyone can be no. 1 (jankovic, safina, ivanovic and soon wozniaki).
@MrZebraZombie You don't even spell Graf correctly. Proves how little you know of her. She was probably the best female tennis player that ever lived.
the one thing that all the williams fanatics fail to mention is that while graf's prime lasted for more the 10 years (1987-1996), serena's and venus' lasted barely a year and a half! venus was in 2000-2001, (and even then she was ranked no. 1 for only 12 weeks, the 2nd lowest ever! less then safina and jankovic) and serena' in 2002-mid 2003 (if u consider 2009 her prime, then that says it all).
@saar144 Serena was only in 2002-2003? While Safina was number 1 she won 3 of the 4 slams! She's won 2 of the slams this year and 2 of them last year!
Hi blakmajk! how can u compare The greatest Tennis women Steffi graf with new star like Venus& Serena?she is a real living legend in women tennis.. u want compare from what side? who win more GS, WTA tittle,no 1, or head to head,?
have u ever watch Steffi Game when she was 17-19? or have u ever watch her game on 1987-1996? u must watch her game in exh wimbledon 2009 vs Clisjsters, and u will think twice.! lol!
@TheSami75 The reason why Steffi won so many slams was because she had no competition: Seles was injured and Martina was getting old. Who else was left? Aranxta? Conchita? Seles won 3 straight French Open, 3 straight Australian Open, 2 consecutive US Open and a string of Tier I tournaments while Steffi was in her prime. Steffi got lucky, the main reason for the 22 slams she got.
@TheSportslover2010 are you sure? no competition? it' s a joke. evert, navratilova, hingis, seles, sanchez; williams....steffi is the best, 22 grand slams, no words for this athlete
Steffi jumped out of the line of fire right before the Williams Sisters hit their prime....2000-2003 would be the year the Williams Sisters step up and run a clinic on the WTA tour. Venus was still young and new to the game...she showed a little more maturity in her matches and her game was a little more solidified in 2000...which eventually led to her first 2 grand slams against the Woman (davenport) who beat Steffi at wimbledon. Serena on had already began to consistently beat Graff
Serena won only 1 match against Graf. That is not "consistently".
In 1999 Venus was the same age as Graf was when she won the Golden Grand Slam. Venus had made a slam final in 97 and had played her first WTA tournament in 1994.
1994 is still relatively new....and she still was not playing the type of tennis that tshe played in 2000-2003. I know Serena beat Graff at Indian Wells, but I don't know of any record of Graff beating Serena...a win is a win...imo. Althought Graff may have more slams than Venus and Serena, i dont think her game was ever as high as the Williams Sisters...those girls REALLY brought tennis to another level. It could be a generation thing, but...all I know Venus and Serena were MONSTERS 2000-2003!!
How would someone who calls Graf "Graff" know anything about how strong Graf was?
Graf beat Venus AND Serena in Sydney 99.
And those "monsters 2000-2003" lost to Likhovtseva, Tauziat (5-7 2-6), Suarez, Shaughnessy, Seles, Hingis (x3), Pierce (2-6 1-6) Schnyder, Rubin (Serena) and to Coetzer, Dokic, old Sanchez, Maleeva (x2), Hingis (1-6 1-6), Schett (Venus) among others ...
Since you are trying to be "cute" you forgot to mention that also during 2000-2003 that they were #1 and #2 in the world, consistently met grand slam finals against each other, and won them in singles AND doubles. Hingis only beat Venus 2 out of the 7 times they played from 2000 to 2003, and 3 out of the 7 times for Serena. Oh and don't try that 2-6 1-6 loss (pierce/serena) Serena OWNS pierce in head to heads and came back to beat her 6-1 6-1, Sorry but im not stuck on stupid as you may think.
Steffi vs. Serena: 1999 Hong Kong (exhibition) SF S Graf 6-2 7-6 (7-4) 1999 SydneyHardcourt R16 Graf 6-2 3-6 7-5 1999 Indian Wells Hardcourt FWilliams 6-3 3-6 7-5 Steffi vs. Venus: 1996 Los Angeles Hardcourt R16 Graf 6-4 6-4 1999 Hong Kong (exhibition) F Williams 2-2(Graf retired) 1999Sydney Hardcourt QF Graf 4-6 6-2 6-4 1999 Hannover Indoor Hardcourt SF Williams 6-3 3-6 6-3 1999 Key Biscayne Hardcourt SF Williams 6-2 6-4 1999 Wimbledon Grass QF Graf 6-2 3-6 6-4
@yevshif If you look at steffi´s early records.... when she first came it took her 4 years until she beat evert or navratilova. Serena and Venus even in their beginning beat steffi once each. Besides, it is really funny to compare steffi with Venus, Serena, Justine Henin..... even Dinara Safina.... could beat steffi for sure... in their prime against steffi´s prime. Steffi Graf is lucky she was born earlier and was among a group of slow players...and her greatest rival was stabbed indeed!
this is not even a graf seles match. wat is wrong with some of the seles fans....they are just everywhere...yeah...she dominated the game...she was winning 8 out of 9 slams she played...the one she lost to graf was becuase she wasnt allowed to grunt....after being stabbed she was never the same player...blah blah blah
anyone reading jayfey77's comments would know this guy's a soreloser and an idiot who refused to acknowledge the greatest female tennis player of all time, STEFFI GRAF
if she was so great why did seles destroy her in the 93 final and was winning 3 grand slams a year and the masters all when steffi waqs in her prime years you fool.
ur the one who ignores facts like monica dominating tennis with 3 grand slams a year and the masters too,and the fact that monica was already showing signs of threatening graf in 89 before urso called graf slump.
Great victory! But, didn't young Venus make Steffi work her socks off! Steffi is a Legend! If she was BLACK (like the Williams) would she still be SEEN as Great?
One of those Seles slam wins was in spring 1990. Three years before the stabbing. When Graf still was the clear #1. In 1991 Graf beat Seles twice.
When Graf started to dig herself out of the slump from spring 1992 onwards (blackmail trial had ended) she narrowed Seles's lead in the rankings considerably. Lost the FO 92 and the AO 93 finals narrowly and destroyed Seles in Wimbledon.
lol at the AO 93 final losing narrowly she got smoked in that final you idiot seles dominated her,i notice u didnt say anything about seles ending grafs winning streak at the german open in 90,fact is graf wasnt winning grand slams from 90 to 93 seles was until she got stabbed.
62 and 61 isnt much diferent between 6-3 and 6-2 and seles beat her worse at the german open to break her winning streak,also the wimb match doesnt count since graf threatened to complain if seles grunted and i provide proof of that ur just in loser denial about it and i give proof and you still wont admit it.
so what if she won the first set seles still smoked her in the secvond and third and you still didnt mention abything about seles beating graf in straight sets in berlin,ur the desperate loser cause you count a match where graf had to threaten to complain if seles grunted shows what kind of classless and cheap player graf is.
seles didnt play 91 wimb and seles played the 90 wimb better than graf the garrison match proved that since she had match point on garrison and graf played garrison the next round and never got a match point on her liike seles did,the 92 final was cause seles didnt grunt due to graf threatening to complain.
yeah and seles proved she was a winner dominating graf in the australian open in 93 before she was stabbed winning 3 grand slams a year and the masters for 3 years in a row,winning the australian 3 years in a row,she would have won the french open 4 years in a row had she not been stabbed,seles was a winner you are the loser.
yeah and in life there are people who proved how good they were thats why losers have to go and stab them so their favorite player can win with them out of the game you fool.
i didnt say it was steffi's fault but she wasnt winning many grand slams or the masters when seles was around, and seles was just entering her prime when she was stabbed the 8 aces to 1 in the australian 93 final prove that since it was also the first time seles ever outaced graf in a match.
You've got a very interesting idea of what "being smoked means" if you think the 93 Australian open final (in which Graf won the first set) is as one sided as the 92 Wimbledon final.
"also the wimb match doesnt count"
umm...yeah, it does. You can wish that match never happened all you want, but it did and Steffi won it. *shrugs*
"i give proof and you still wont admit it."
You give rubbish and need something better to do than give an amazing champion like Graf such undeserved criticism.
the match counts but it doesnt count as a match where seles played like she normally does she didnt grunt,i provide facts all u provide is stupidity,seles was leading head to head vs graf 4-3 when she got stabbed if u take away the 3 wins graf had over seles in 89 when seles was 15 and only losers like u would count that when seles barely played that year,graf only won the first set in 93 cause seles was making error once seles stopped the errors she won very easily.
It's a really clear sign that a person doesn' have a strong argument when they have to resort to name calling. Really, grow up.
"if u take away the 3 wins graf had over seles in 89 when seles was 15 and only losers like u would count that"
"graf only won the first set in 93 cause seles was making error"
That's not providing facts, that's nitpicking. All you are doing is digging up every tiny detail you can find that even slightly favours Seles and calling that "proof".
Seles had already become the dominant player. Whether or not she would have continued to dominate is something we will never know. That she out-aced Graf in ONE match isn't "proof" that the dominance would have continued. All it indicates is that Seles served very well in the match, while Graf's serve was a little off.
You can hardly argue that Seles was "smoking" Graf when she only lead in their head to head during 91-93 by one match. It also doesn't indicate that Seles would have continued to dominate, had she not been stabbed. Chris Evert at one stage led Martina Navratilova in their head to head by 18 matches (22-4). Navratilova still came out on top in that rivalry. A one match lead over a couple of years really doesn't tell us anything.
true but there is some statistics that show seles would have gone on to dominate graf had she not been stabbed look at their last match in 93 seles outaced graf 8 aces to grafs 1,it was the first time seles ever outaced graf in a match this was due to seles entering her prime and no longer being a young girl graf could overpower,i think the 93 match proves how seles was about to leave graf in the dust.
"Some statistics" suggests that there is more than one. You've just repeated the one statistic (Seles out-acing Graf in the 93 AO final) over and over again. As I've said, that statistic doesn't prove anything. The 93 match is an indication of their rivalry at the time. They were both exceptional players, but Seles had a slight edge. Nothing about that match "proves" anything about how their rivalry would have continued in the following years.
it doesnt prove anything are u retarded?it proves selesd was now stronger than graf and could out ace her because she was no longer the young girl graf could overpower she was entering her prime u idiot,it migh have even been 9 aces to grafs 1 it was clear domination only retards like u cant see that,that last match proved how seles was leaving graf in the dust.
No, you're just trying to take more out of ONE statistic than it can actually tell us. Seles wasn't coming into her prime, she was already there. She had stopped being the "little girl that Graf could overpower" long before that match. What that match tells us is that they were clearly the two best players at the time, but Seles had the physical and mental edge over Graf. It doesn't tell us if the rivalry would have continued that way. You can keep wishing it does all you want, but it doesn't.
the 8 aces to 1 proves that seles was coming into her prime because it was the first time seles ever outaced graf in a match u fool,this proves seles was on her way to dominating graf you are just a retard who is to blind to see the signs.
You can repeat that statistic to me, call people "retards", "idiots", "losers" and continue to be the silly immature little brat that you are making yourself out to be as much as you want. That still won't change the fact that the ONE statistic you're so infatuated with really doesn't tell us much, apart from that Seles had a really good day on her serve. It doesn't indicate that Seles was about to "leave Garf in the dust" in any way, especially since it still took her 3 sets to beat Graf.
...and yes, that set that Graf does count, as does her victory at wimbledon. If you really want to argue about whether or not Seles would have continued her dominance over Graf, you can't just consider every little detail which favours Seles conveniently ignore those which favour Graf.
wrong because it was the last match they played before she was stabbed you fool it shows how seles was much stronger thats why she had 8 aces to grafs 1 u fool,and only a retard like u would count the wimb final when seles didnt grunt due to graf threatening to complain if she did,that set that graf won was due to seles making errors it was more seles losing that set than graf winning it,seles did the same thing when she beat novotna in the aussie final.
exactly! jayfey77's only argument is more aces means better player like AO'93. he can't come up with anything other than that argument. actually, he doesn't even know anything about tennis, really
if that was the only advantage Graf had, why did she still need 3 sets to beat her? Oh that's right, Seles just doesn't try in the first set of all her Australian open finals...*rolls eyes*
here we go again..we've been that argument..you can say anyone here a fool or whatever, but the real immature son of a bitch is you.
wtf? how does AO'93 prove anything? iit's true seles was dominating women's tennis, and graf was in her slump, but seles' real threat was also graf when graf wasn't at her best.
so there, enuff with your nonsense, nobody's convinced anyway
ur nothing but a pathetic pussy who starts crap online cause he cant do it in person and if you dont replky with ur name and address u prove me right.
Again, you're only considering the statistic that goes in favour of Seles, while making lame excuses for the ones that don't. Clearly you'd already made up your mind about the Seles-Graf rivalry before looking at any of the stats. Now you're just desperately digging up the bits and pieces that support what you wish were true, nothing else. That's not how discussions work kiddo. You want to be taken seriously, you need to consider all the facts. Not just the ones that are convenient for you.
...and like I said, the 8 aces to Graf's 1 doesn't tell us much. At best, it tells us that Seles' serve was improving. But all I get from that is that Seles was just having a good day on her serve while Graf wasn't. It doesn't indicate IN ANY WAY that Seles was "leaving Graf in the dust" when she still needed 3 sets to beat her in the final (despite serving so exceptionally well) and had lost 3 of her last 4 meetings with Graf prior to that match.
a good day?what about graf only having one ace?seles wasnt just having a good day it was the first time she ever outaced graf u fool,because she was stronger now and that is the proof,it was a new year seles was much better in 93 than in 92 and that match proved it and seles losing the first set was due to errors nothing graf did.
How do you expect me or anyone else to agree with you, when the only evidence you have to support your opinion is a single statistic in one match, which I've already shown about a dozen times doesn't indicate very much at all. And again, for every stat in Seles' favour, you come to the conclusion that Seles is a God. But for every stat in Graf's favour, excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses, whinging and name calling, excuses, excuses, making a fool out of yourself, excuses, excuses, excuses....
only a retard like you would ignore the fact that seles out aced graf 8 aces to grafs 1 the last match they played before she got stabbed and it was the first tiome she ever outaced graf this proves she was stronger than in previous years u retard,u are just blind or stupid or both to ignore this important statistic.
No, I haven't ignored it. I've acknowleged it and explained to you REPEATEDLY why it doesn't "prove" anything. You're just too in love with that statistic (and YOURSELF) to admit that it's really nowhere near as important as you're making it out to be. All you have to back up your argument is that one statistic, that has been rebutted over and over again, and repeated uses of "retard", "idiot", "stupid", "bilnd" and "fool". Your argument is piss weak. Face it, you really don't know tennis.
u have shown u know nothing about tennis the stronger player always outaces the weaker player and until the 93 final that was graf seles was showing she was much stronger now the difference between her 92 matches to the 93 one was that she wasnt acing graf thats why players like lendl always had more aces than agassi cause he was stronger,ur a damn fool my tennis collection shows i know more about tennis than u do.
All your tennis collection shows is that you have a tennis collection. Good for you. It doesn't show that you know anything. The fact that you think big serve = stronger player shows straight away just how little you know about tennis. You only have to look at the latest ace statistics on the ATP website. Only 3 of the top 10 players (Federer, Roddick and Soderling) actually made it into the top 10 aces list for the year. No 1 in that list is Karlovic, the world number 39. Yeah, real dominant...
more proof of ur stupidity sampras won many grand slams due to his serve u retard and the us open winner this year was del potro due to his big serve.
Ivanisevic out aced Sampras in a majority of their matches together. That, by YOUR logic, proves that Ivanisevic was a much stronger player than Sampras.
ivanisevic won a wimbledon because of his serve you retard and sampras had a big serve too ivanisevic only had a big serve he didnt have the rest of the game to go with it like seles did to graf,seles not just out aced graf she dominated graf that first set she lost was due to errors and i think seles just did that to get warmed up she did the same against novotna she could have won in straight sets if she wanted to the total dominance of the last 2 sets proves that.
"She could have won in straight sets if she wanted to."
Then why didn't she? Are you saying she lost the first set intentionally? What a load of rubbish. Why would she not have wanted to win in straight sets? Seles was one of the most determined and focused champions around. If it would've been so easy for her to win in straight sets, she would have. I also don't think she would appreciate you suggesting that she was arrogant enough to throw away a set on purpose, just to lead her opponent on.
she did the same against jana novotna u retard she just always feels out the opponent and makes errors and then destroys them in the last 2 sets both that match and the novotna match prove this.
"she just always feels out the opponent and makes errors and then destroys them in the last 2 sets"
...like she did with Mary Joe Fernandez in the semi-final of that tournament, when she lost the second set 6-0? Seles won 235 matches in 1990-93. 33 of those went to 3 sets and in over half of them (18) Seles lost the second set. But you'll just ignore that because it's not convenient for you. The Novotna and Graf match that you keep going on about are the only ones that mean anything...
that mary joe match is totally different because seles didnt win the second set you retard,im talking about matches where she lost the first set at the australian open you fool.
umm...that's exactly my point. You're really crap with logic, aren't you? Seles didn't win the second set in that match, along with over half of the matches she played that went to 3 sets over that period. This proves that she doesn't just throw away the first set to "feel her opponent out". If she did, there would be a much higher percentage of first set losses in her 3 set matches. She didn't just throw away the first set in those to matches, she lost them. Stop making a fool out of yourself.
seles did win the second set and the 3rd set you retard,she lost the first set to graf like she did novotna you fool,and it was only in the australian open finals did she do this before the stabbing,u have been proven wrong yet again.
I was referring to the Mary Joe Fernandez match. I know perfectly well that she lost the first set in the Australian Open finals with Novotna and Graf. You're completely missing the point. If Seles didn't try in the opening sets of her matches to "feel her opponent out", she would have a high percentage of first set losses in her 3 set matches. But she doesn't, it's less than half. This shows that she genuinely lost those first sets in those two matches, it wasn't from a lack of trying.
i know you were referringf to the mary joe match and thats why i said that match is stupid to bring upo because she didnt lose the first set in that matcvh like she did in the finals to graf and novotna so for u to bring up the mary joe match shows ur stupidity its like comparing apples to oranges.
no, it's not stupid to bring up, it's perfectly legitimate. It's not like comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing an apple to another apple. The only reason you don't like it is because it proves that you're blatantly wrong, and you're just too childish to admit to it. You said that Seles always plays badly in the first set and destroys her opponents in the next 2 sets. That match, and the 17 other 3 setters where she doesn't do that proves that you're wrong. Deal with it.
no i said seles only played badly in the first set in the aust final you retard and this is more proof how ignorant u are and how u ignore fact the other novotna final proves this too,u are just in loser denial.
I know what you said. Let me remind you..."she just always feels out the opponent and makes errors and then destroys them in the last 2 sets".
The fact that Seles lost the second set in over half of her 3 set matches during 1990-93 proves that she doesn't do this. But you only consider TWO matches where she does lose the first set and call it proof that this is what she does in all her matches. The only person ignoring facts here is you. You're the one with the losing argument.
...and why is this fact important? Why would Seles have treated these two particular matches any different from the hundreds of other matches she played during her career? Why are those TWO matches at the ONE tournament more of an indication of how Seles approaches her matches than all the other matches she played during that time?
she did the same thing in the us open final in 92 she didnt even play well the whole tournament till the final against arantxa even the announcers said so.
...so it doesn't matter. The fact that they were both Australian Open finals isn't significant. You're just holding onto it because your argument is so weak, you have nothing else to hold onto. Glad we got that cleared up. :)
bullshit the 8 aces to grafs one is significant because it proves seles was entering her prime since she never outaced graf in the past,she was getting because she was entering her prime you retard.
a) I've already shown you why that ONE statistic in that ONE match isn't important. By continuing to call it proof of ANYTHING, you're just making yourself out to be an idiot. For your own sake, just stop.
b) That still doesn't tell me why the 91 and 93 AO finals are more of an indication of how Seles approached all of her matches than every other match she played during those three years.
because you retard the australian open final she always did that because she liked to feel out the opponent first,you are the biggest retard ive met on youtube and in loser denial for ignoring the 8 aces to grafs one that proves seles was entering her prime you idiot and it proves seles was dominating graf.
dominating as in having womn their last match before she got stabbed which gave seles a 4-3 edge over graf and having 8 aces to grafs 1 showing she was entering her prime and now stronger to dominate graf you retard.
graf wasnt a young woman like seles was u fool when she hit the 8 aces to grafs 1, and the fact that it was the first time she did that against seles proves she was entering her prime.
so what? hingis won the last of her match against davenport but davenport still leads 14-11, that A93 final is baseless assumption. give us something other than that 1 match.
oh wait a min, of course you can't give another match to back you up, cuz there aren't any other matches that proved seles was dominant.
Again, I haven't ignored it. YOU have ignored the fact that I have shown over and over again it doesn't prove anything. You are the one ignoring the fact that the two Australian open finals where Seles lost the first set are only two matches and are no indication that Seles just "feels her opponents out" in the first set so she can "destroy them in the next 2" when she doesn't do that in her other 3 set matches. You are the only person ignoring the facts. And the fact is, you have no argument.
I know perfectly well that they're the two finals at the Australian Open before the stabbing. We've established that long ago. You still haven't explained why those two matches prove anything. Why would Seles have approached those two particular matches any differently to any of her other matches?
deal with the real facts you idiot! graf was, is and always better than seles. there's nothing you can do to change facts, let alone HISTORY. pathetic.
umm, duh. No-ones disputing that. It's whether or not she would have continued to do so which is the question, and a single ace count does not prove anything.
seles would have dominated till 97 at least in my opinion she wasnt even close to the same player she was before the stabbing when she came back the 93 ao proves she was dominating you idiot as well as winning 3 grand slams a year and the masters.
What are you talking about, you have yet to prove ANYTHING that I have said as being wrong. You also have yet to prove that your opinion is right. You just keep using the same argument that has been proven wrong over and over again.
@Jubileeme Ok she'll be 30 by the time the next Slam comes around she's won 13 therefore she needs to win 12 more slams in order to do that. Lets face it she's not winning the French anytime soon so she's therefore at best needing to win 3 Slams for the next FOUR consequtive years to do this. NOT going to happen - I think she'll end up with 17 Slams before she calls it quits. It doesn't look like it right now but I'm sure someone can and will come along to beat her Kvitova possibly being one.
mohawk393939 5 months ago
It is hard to believe the claims re this "new generation" of women's tennis when you consider that Serena was beaten here in Steffi's last year on the circuit. Another thing: speed and power go up at least partly on account of racquets, not unbelievable increase in physical strength. Henin most certainly wasn't as powerful a hitter as Graf. Lastly, tennis is as much about placement, direction and tactics as about power and speed.
CrimsonKing589051 5 months ago
Absolutely true.
shucham 6 months ago
Steffi was a great athlete, very effective forehand, nice serve. Her greatest power was her mobility. She is the best tennis player for her movement around the court in history. No one can be as good as her ever in footwork and speed. But sorry the next generation number 1´s have so many weapons in their arsenal. Serena, Venus, Justine Henin.... too good for steffi.
shucham 6 months ago
@shucham
Today's generation has better rackets.
Have you ever played with those rackets Steffi used 20 years ago?
No?
Thought so ...
BTW, Kimiko Date said recently that Steffi needed only to exercise a little bit and then could return to the game in order to beat the current top players. You know, this Japanese chick who was a top-5 player in the mid-90s and who won 5 of 10 matches against the top-15 players in 2010.
Oops ...
Hoffenheim08 6 months ago
These woman have produced some great tennis over the years. I agree, why compare. I find them all great. It's going to be a while for someone to win 22 Grand Slams like Steffi Graf. Let's not forget the Golden Slam when she won all 4 Grand Slams and a Gold Medal in 1988. Folks be greatful we got to see these women produce some great tennis.
luisrod68 7 months ago
If Monica Seles wasn't stabbed........
jafarhie 9 months ago
@jafarhie ...Graf still would have been great!
pidgeblev 8 months ago
@pidgeblev True, but probably not as great. Their will forever be an asterisk next to some of Steffi's slams. She benefited from the stabbing.
jafarhie 8 months ago
@jafarhie I see what your are saying but there should never be a stigma against Steffi due to the stabbing. Not sure benefited is the right word!
pidgeblev 8 months ago
@jafarhie If Monica Seles wasn't stabbed. She would have beaten the shit out of Serena Black Shit Williams many times. It should be the black shit being stabbed, not Monica.
beavertown2006 8 months ago
@beavertown2006 Serena the dominating black princess/Great White hope destroyer of the WTA wasn't even a top player during the Steffi/Monica era. Check your facts you White dragon. lol. You're such an idiot.
jafarhie 8 months ago
I love Steffi and I think she had and still has an incredible body and is one of the greatest players of all time but, most of her success is due to Monica being stabbed. She would have not had so many accomplishments had that stabbing never took place. I Love them both and That incident changed tennis history for sure!!
CMShioji 1 year ago
@CMShioji
"Most of her success"??
Steffi won the Golden Grand Slam in 1988!
Even post-stabbing she won most slams on surfaces where Seles never was able to beat her (Wimbledon, USO). And a few on clay (FO), where she was equal to Seles (even beating her in 1999).
Which slams do you think Steffi could not have won without the stabbing???
Hoffenheim08 11 months ago
Unbelievable this Women Graf. Graf is 29 very old and Venus is younger. and Graf won this Match.
That is true legend Graf with his big great forehand.
i miss steffi..
dfreund1981 1 year ago
Steffi Graf!! What a player. Wow.
zest4life 1 year ago
steffi is the best
arashtennis 1 year ago
graf is the greatest that' s why she won so many titles, i am french and i' m so happy she won the french open 6 times, amazing
TheSami75 1 year ago
mczebra it' s your opinion but it' n not the case
TheSami75 1 year ago
This match was grueling. Wasn't this the same tournament that Steffi beat both the Williams sisters? Steffi was in and out the years prior because of injury. She was coming back from this injuries in 1999. The aging Graf beating young bucks like these sisters is amazing!
aloha42506 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Venus and Serena in their prime could easily beat Graff in her prime. Easily.
MrZebraZombie 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie It is your opinion ...
yevshif 1 year ago
@yevshif It is an observation. They can beat steffi graf anytime. Even Dinara Safina can beat Steffi Graf many many times.
shucham 6 months ago
It is very sad to see that steffi graf won 22 grand slams 11 of them done after stabbing Monica Seles. And steffi knew that is her chance so she had no fear and did her best. She is so lucky, all things were set up for her all she had to do was step up on court.
shucham 6 months ago
@MrZebraZombie I agree Venus and Serena can beat Steffi if all were in the prime. The reason why Steffi won so many slams was due to lack of competition: Seles was injured and Martina was getting old. Steffi cannot handle the power of Venus or Serena. Steffi could barely handle Seles, who won 3 straight French Open while Steffi was in her prime. The Sisters possess the biggest serve and can cover the court like nobody could.
TheSportslover2010 1 year ago
@TheSportslover2010
LOL! lack of competition?? if anything, the williams sisters are the ones w/o proper competition! who will this competition be exactly? capriati? (as if! most overrated player ever)? davenport and hingis were washed out by 2001. and when henin made her rise, she dominated them both (the williams' that is). This new era of tennis , if anything, is the most poor one - when anyone can be no. 1 (jankovic, safina, ivanovic and soon wozniaki).
LOL
saar144 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie i know you are entitled to your opinion even though how REDICULOUS that opinion was....
bearchamp69 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie
Exactly!!!
YayanBenBenjamin 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie You don't even spell Graf correctly. Proves how little you know of her. She was probably the best female tennis player that ever lived.
GlennDeBlock 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie
the one thing that all the williams fanatics fail to mention is that while graf's prime lasted for more the 10 years (1987-1996), serena's and venus' lasted barely a year and a half! venus was in 2000-2001, (and even then she was ranked no. 1 for only 12 weeks, the 2nd lowest ever! less then safina and jankovic) and serena' in 2002-mid 2003 (if u consider 2009 her prime, then that says it all).
saar144 1 year ago
@saar144 Serena was only in 2002-2003? While Safina was number 1 she won 3 of the 4 slams! She's won 2 of the slams this year and 2 of them last year!
AngelMarieFox 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie
And when was this mythical "Williams prime"?
In which week?
Hoffenheim08 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie NOT !!!!!!
karrtt1234 1 year ago
@MrZebraZombie 100% correct!
shucham 1 year ago
respect respect for this lady graf is the queen of tennis
TheSami75 1 year ago
Hi blakmajk! how can u compare The greatest Tennis women Steffi graf with new star like Venus& Serena?she is a real living legend in women tennis.. u want compare from what side? who win more GS, WTA tittle,no 1, or head to head,?
have u ever watch Steffi Game when she was 17-19? or have u ever watch her game on 1987-1996? u must watch her game in exh wimbledon 2009 vs Clisjsters, and u will think twice.! lol!
manforU100 1 year ago
no comparaison between graf and williams, graf is the greatest. she' s the best. 22 grand slams, 377 weeks number 1.
steffi vs serena 2/1
steffi vs venus 3/2
TheSami75 1 year ago
@TheSami75 The reason why Steffi won so many slams was because she had no competition: Seles was injured and Martina was getting old. Who else was left? Aranxta? Conchita? Seles won 3 straight French Open, 3 straight Australian Open, 2 consecutive US Open and a string of Tier I tournaments while Steffi was in her prime. Steffi got lucky, the main reason for the 22 slams she got.
TheSportslover2010 1 year ago
@TheSportslover2010 are you sure? no competition? it' s a joke. evert, navratilova, hingis, seles, sanchez; williams....steffi is the best, 22 grand slams, no words for this athlete
TheSami75 1 year ago
Graf ist the best fermaleplayer alltime.
Why didnt Seles win all 4 Slams in a Years? Loser Seles.
dfreund1981 2 years ago
don' t compare the gratest ( graf) with séréna or venus
TheSami75 2 years ago 7
Steffi jumped out of the line of fire right before the Williams Sisters hit their prime....2000-2003 would be the year the Williams Sisters step up and run a clinic on the WTA tour. Venus was still young and new to the game...she showed a little more maturity in her matches and her game was a little more solidified in 2000...which eventually led to her first 2 grand slams against the Woman (davenport) who beat Steffi at wimbledon. Serena on had already began to consistently beat Graff
Blakmajik78 2 years ago
Serena won only 1 match against Graf. That is not "consistently".
In 1999 Venus was the same age as Graf was when she won the Golden Grand Slam. Venus had made a slam final in 97 and had played her first WTA tournament in 1994.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago 2
1994 is still relatively new....and she still was not playing the type of tennis that tshe played in 2000-2003. I know Serena beat Graff at Indian Wells, but I don't know of any record of Graff beating Serena...a win is a win...imo. Althought Graff may have more slams than Venus and Serena, i dont think her game was ever as high as the Williams Sisters...those girls REALLY brought tennis to another level. It could be a generation thing, but...all I know Venus and Serena were MONSTERS 2000-2003!!
Blakmajik78 2 years ago
How would someone who calls Graf "Graff" know anything about how strong Graf was?
Graf beat Venus AND Serena in Sydney 99.
And those "monsters 2000-2003" lost to Likhovtseva, Tauziat (5-7 2-6), Suarez, Shaughnessy, Seles, Hingis (x3), Pierce (2-6 1-6) Schnyder, Rubin (Serena) and to Coetzer, Dokic, old Sanchez, Maleeva (x2), Hingis (1-6 1-6), Schett (Venus) among others ...
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
Since you are trying to be "cute" you forgot to mention that also during 2000-2003 that they were #1 and #2 in the world, consistently met grand slam finals against each other, and won them in singles AND doubles. Hingis only beat Venus 2 out of the 7 times they played from 2000 to 2003, and 3 out of the 7 times for Serena. Oh and don't try that 2-6 1-6 loss (pierce/serena) Serena OWNS pierce in head to heads and came back to beat her 6-1 6-1, Sorry but im not stuck on stupid as you may think.
Blakmajik78 2 years ago
yevshif 2 years ago 3
@yevshif If you look at steffi´s early records.... when she first came it took her 4 years until she beat evert or navratilova. Serena and Venus even in their beginning beat steffi once each. Besides, it is really funny to compare steffi with Venus, Serena, Justine Henin..... even Dinara Safina.... could beat steffi for sure... in their prime against steffi´s prime. Steffi Graf is lucky she was born earlier and was among a group of slow players...and her greatest rival was stabbed indeed!
shucham 6 months ago
@shucham
16-year-old Steffi beat Evert and Navratilova.
Whom did 16-year-old Venus and Serena beat?
Safina could beat Steffi? You mean with her hand in the face or what?
Hoffenheim08 6 months ago
@Blakmajik78 - it's amazing how the williams sisters fans never actually their homework before posting their comments here.
Blakmajik78, read yevshif's reply - graf actually leads serena H2H 2-1 if that Hong Kong tournament was counted.
rexus82 1 year ago
steffi graf is simply the best, no words for this athlete
TheSami75 2 years ago
i thought she lost this match but twas another match with venus indoor
steffi simply the greatest
and those legs are to die for
she's so fuckin sexy
i can go on.......
custodar 2 years ago
she was hurtin here with all sort of injuries (grimacin a lot) but she's tryin so hard not to show it
typical steffi graf - a true champion, a living legend
it was inevitably near the end of her career
did you guys also notice who looked fresher at the end of the match?
my gah! a 30 year old really workin out a teenage player (or venus was 20 or 21 here?)
i just found that amazin!
(i know some people sweat more than others......:)
custodar 2 years ago
does someone know if steffi won this all the way? pls pls pls i have to know! :)
im an obsessed fan of steffi graf!
what was the score with serena? with davenport? with hingis?
if she did, then she beat serena, venus, davenport, hingis?
wow, i thought her feat at the french open 99 was the most ultimate!
beatin kournikova, davenport, seles, hingis!
custodar 2 years ago
this is not even a graf seles match. wat is wrong with some of the seles fans....they are just everywhere...yeah...she dominated the game...she was winning 8 out of 9 slams she played...the one she lost to graf was becuase she wasnt allowed to grunt....after being stabbed she was never the same player...blah blah blah
give us a break...
hahayoyo8382 2 years ago 2
anyone reading jayfey77's comments would know this guy's a soreloser and an idiot who refused to acknowledge the greatest female tennis player of all time, STEFFI GRAF
yaoryu 2 years ago
if she was so great why did seles destroy her in the 93 final and was winning 3 grand slams a year and the masters all when steffi waqs in her prime years you fool.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Seles didn't "destroy" her, she lost the first set...fool
ozroke1 2 years ago
yeah on errors which was more seles losing the first set than graf winning it,the last 2 sets prove that too since seles won them very easily.
jayfey77 2 years ago
nothing you say proves anything. I have proven that dozens of times. I'm done here. You are an idiot. Grow up.
ozroke1 2 years ago
i provide fatcs you provide ignorance and denial.
jayfey77 2 years ago
You ignore facts. You have no argument. You have lost the argument a dozen times. Deal with it. Kthx
ozroke1 2 years ago
ur the one who ignores facts like monica dominating tennis with 3 grand slams a year and the masters too,and the fact that monica was already showing signs of threatening graf in 89 before urso called graf slump.
jayfey77 2 years ago
You're a sore loser. Whatevs. Believe what you want to believe.
ozroke1 2 years ago
steff the best forever,,,,
768645 2 years ago
Great victory! But, didn't young Venus make Steffi work her socks off! Steffi is a Legend! If she was BLACK (like the Williams) would she still be SEEN as Great?
Galactus247 2 years ago
to Galactus247: BLACK / WHITE got nothing to do with Tennis level ...!!!???
yevshif 2 years ago
steffi is simply the best
yassine7755 2 years ago
How beautifully Graf moves - greatest footwork ever.
Poetry in motion ...
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
I can't believe anyone could actually compare Seles to Graf, everyone who know anything about tennis knows Graf was the best.
icurtis33 2 years ago
if graf was the best she would have been number one you retard,and seles had beaten graf in 3 of the 4 grand slam finals they played each other in.
jayfey77 2 years ago
One of those Seles slam wins was in spring 1990. Three years before the stabbing. When Graf still was the clear #1. In 1991 Graf beat Seles twice.
When Graf started to dig herself out of the slump from spring 1992 onwards (blackmail trial had ended) she narrowed Seles's lead in the rankings considerably. Lost the FO 92 and the AO 93 finals narrowly and destroyed Seles in Wimbledon.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
lol at the AO 93 final losing narrowly she got smoked in that final you idiot seles dominated her,i notice u didnt say anything about seles ending grafs winning streak at the german open in 90,fact is graf wasnt winning grand slams from 90 to 93 seles was until she got stabbed.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Smoked?
Seles made 86 points, Graf 78.
Graf even hit more winners.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
yeah smoked seles won the second set 6-3 and the 3rd set 6-2 thats being smoked.
jayfey77 2 years ago
When Seles "smoked" Graf she won in 3 sets and hit less winners than Graf.
When Graf "smoked" Seles she won 62 61 or so.
Which shows nicely the difference between both.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago 3
62 and 61 isnt much diferent between 6-3 and 6-2 and seles beat her worse at the german open to break her winning streak,also the wimb match doesnt count since graf threatened to complain if seles grunted and i provide proof of that ur just in loser denial about it and i give proof and you still wont admit it.
jayfey77 2 years ago
You conveniently forgot that Graf won the first set in the AO 93 final.
LOL @ "the wimb match doesn't count".
What a desperate loser you are. No wonder you are attracted to Seles. You live a woulda-coulda life for yourself, don't you?
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago 2
so what if she won the first set seles still smoked her in the secvond and third and you still didnt mention abything about seles beating graf in straight sets in berlin,ur the desperate loser cause you count a match where graf had to threaten to complain if seles grunted shows what kind of classless and cheap player graf is.
jayfey77 2 years ago
graf was winning wimbledon 1991 and 1992...1992 graf vs.seles 6/2,6/1
mbergkvist 2 years ago
seles didnt play 91 wimb and seles played the 90 wimb better than graf the garrison match proved that since she had match point on garrison and graf played garrison the next round and never got a match point on her liike seles did,the 92 final was cause seles didnt grunt due to graf threatening to complain.
jayfey77 2 years ago
LOL
mbergkvist 2 years ago
In life there are woulda-coulda people.
And there are winners.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
yeah and seles proved she was a winner dominating graf in the australian open in 93 before she was stabbed winning 3 grand slams a year and the masters for 3 years in a row,winning the australian 3 years in a row,she would have won the french open 4 years in a row had she not been stabbed,seles was a winner you are the loser.
jayfey77 2 years ago
yeah and in life there are people who proved how good they were thats why losers have to go and stab them so their favorite player can win with them out of the game you fool.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Lol...... So you if your brother stabs your ass off , is it your MOTHERS fault ?
No right ?
in the very same way, its not steffis fault that monica was stabbed.
errolmiranda 2 years ago
i didnt say it was steffi's fault but she wasnt winning many grand slams or the masters when seles was around, and seles was just entering her prime when she was stabbed the 8 aces to 1 in the australian 93 final prove that since it was also the first time seles ever outaced graf in a match.
jayfey77 2 years ago
You've got a very interesting idea of what "being smoked means" if you think the 93 Australian open final (in which Graf won the first set) is as one sided as the 92 Wimbledon final.
"also the wimb match doesnt count"
umm...yeah, it does. You can wish that match never happened all you want, but it did and Steffi won it. *shrugs*
"i give proof and you still wont admit it."
You give rubbish and need something better to do than give an amazing champion like Graf such undeserved criticism.
ozroke1 2 years ago
the match counts but it doesnt count as a match where seles played like she normally does she didnt grunt,i provide facts all u provide is stupidity,seles was leading head to head vs graf 4-3 when she got stabbed if u take away the 3 wins graf had over seles in 89 when seles was 15 and only losers like u would count that when seles barely played that year,graf only won the first set in 93 cause seles was making error once seles stopped the errors she won very easily.
jayfey77 2 years ago
It's a really clear sign that a person doesn' have a strong argument when they have to resort to name calling. Really, grow up.
"if u take away the 3 wins graf had over seles in 89 when seles was 15 and only losers like u would count that"
"graf only won the first set in 93 cause seles was making error"
That's not providing facts, that's nitpicking. All you are doing is digging up every tiny detail you can find that even slightly favours Seles and calling that "proof".
ozroke1 2 years ago
i think the 8 aces to grafs 3 in their last match before the stabbing proves seles was starting to dominate graf.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Seles had already become the dominant player. Whether or not she would have continued to dominate is something we will never know. That she out-aced Graf in ONE match isn't "proof" that the dominance would have continued. All it indicates is that Seles served very well in the match, while Graf's serve was a little off.
ozroke1 2 years ago
"seles was leading head to head vs graf 4-3"
You can hardly argue that Seles was "smoking" Graf when she only lead in their head to head during 91-93 by one match. It also doesn't indicate that Seles would have continued to dominate, had she not been stabbed. Chris Evert at one stage led Martina Navratilova in their head to head by 18 matches (22-4). Navratilova still came out on top in that rivalry. A one match lead over a couple of years really doesn't tell us anything.
ozroke1 2 years ago
true but there is some statistics that show seles would have gone on to dominate graf had she not been stabbed look at their last match in 93 seles outaced graf 8 aces to grafs 1,it was the first time seles ever outaced graf in a match this was due to seles entering her prime and no longer being a young girl graf could overpower,i think the 93 match proves how seles was about to leave graf in the dust.
jayfey77 2 years ago
"Some statistics" suggests that there is more than one. You've just repeated the one statistic (Seles out-acing Graf in the 93 AO final) over and over again. As I've said, that statistic doesn't prove anything. The 93 match is an indication of their rivalry at the time. They were both exceptional players, but Seles had a slight edge. Nothing about that match "proves" anything about how their rivalry would have continued in the following years.
ozroke1 2 years ago
it doesnt prove anything are u retarded?it proves selesd was now stronger than graf and could out ace her because she was no longer the young girl graf could overpower she was entering her prime u idiot,it migh have even been 9 aces to grafs 1 it was clear domination only retards like u cant see that,that last match proved how seles was leaving graf in the dust.
jayfey77 2 years ago
No, you're just trying to take more out of ONE statistic than it can actually tell us. Seles wasn't coming into her prime, she was already there. She had stopped being the "little girl that Graf could overpower" long before that match. What that match tells us is that they were clearly the two best players at the time, but Seles had the physical and mental edge over Graf. It doesn't tell us if the rivalry would have continued that way. You can keep wishing it does all you want, but it doesn't.
ozroke1 2 years ago
the 8 aces to 1 proves that seles was coming into her prime because it was the first time seles ever outaced graf in a match u fool,this proves seles was on her way to dominating graf you are just a retard who is to blind to see the signs.
jayfey77 2 years ago
You can repeat that statistic to me, call people "retards", "idiots", "losers" and continue to be the silly immature little brat that you are making yourself out to be as much as you want. That still won't change the fact that the ONE statistic you're so infatuated with really doesn't tell us much, apart from that Seles had a really good day on her serve. It doesn't indicate that Seles was about to "leave Garf in the dust" in any way, especially since it still took her 3 sets to beat Graf.
ozroke1 2 years ago
...and yes, that set that Graf does count, as does her victory at wimbledon. If you really want to argue about whether or not Seles would have continued her dominance over Graf, you can't just consider every little detail which favours Seles conveniently ignore those which favour Graf.
ozroke1 2 years ago
wrong because it was the last match they played before she was stabbed you fool it shows how seles was much stronger thats why she had 8 aces to grafs 1 u fool,and only a retard like u would count the wimb final when seles didnt grunt due to graf threatening to complain if she did,that set that graf won was due to seles making errors it was more seles losing that set than graf winning it,seles did the same thing when she beat novotna in the aussie final.
jayfey77 2 years ago
why are you calling other people names (fool, retard, etc.) ... !!! How many times you can repeat the same arguments ...
yevshif 2 years ago
exactly! jayfey77's only argument is more aces means better player like AO'93. he can't come up with anything other than that argument. actually, he doesn't even know anything about tennis, really
yaoryu 2 years ago
the one advantage graf had over seles was a bigger serve and seles took that away in the 93 open u retard.
jayfey77 2 years ago
if that was the only advantage Graf had, why did she still need 3 sets to beat her? Oh that's right, Seles just doesn't try in the first set of all her Australian open finals...*rolls eyes*
ozroke1 2 years ago
because seles made errors in the first set which she doesnt normally due she cut down on the errors and won the next 2 sets easily.
jayfey77 2 years ago
here we go again..we've been that argument..you can say anyone here a fool or whatever, but the real immature son of a bitch is you.
wtf? how does AO'93 prove anything? iit's true seles was dominating women's tennis, and graf was in her slump, but seles' real threat was also graf when graf wasn't at her best.
so there, enuff with your nonsense, nobody's convinced anyway
yaoryu 2 years ago
ur nothing but a pathetic pussy who starts crap online cause he cant do it in person and if you dont replky with ur name and address u prove me right.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Again, you're only considering the statistic that goes in favour of Seles, while making lame excuses for the ones that don't. Clearly you'd already made up your mind about the Seles-Graf rivalry before looking at any of the stats. Now you're just desperately digging up the bits and pieces that support what you wish were true, nothing else. That's not how discussions work kiddo. You want to be taken seriously, you need to consider all the facts. Not just the ones that are convenient for you.
ozroke1 2 years ago
...and like I said, the 8 aces to Graf's 1 doesn't tell us much. At best, it tells us that Seles' serve was improving. But all I get from that is that Seles was just having a good day on her serve while Graf wasn't. It doesn't indicate IN ANY WAY that Seles was "leaving Graf in the dust" when she still needed 3 sets to beat her in the final (despite serving so exceptionally well) and had lost 3 of her last 4 meetings with Graf prior to that match.
ozroke1 2 years ago
a good day?what about graf only having one ace?seles wasnt just having a good day it was the first time she ever outaced graf u fool,because she was stronger now and that is the proof,it was a new year seles was much better in 93 than in 92 and that match proved it and seles losing the first set was due to errors nothing graf did.
jayfey77 2 years ago
How do you expect me or anyone else to agree with you, when the only evidence you have to support your opinion is a single statistic in one match, which I've already shown about a dozen times doesn't indicate very much at all. And again, for every stat in Seles' favour, you come to the conclusion that Seles is a God. But for every stat in Graf's favour, excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses, whinging and name calling, excuses, excuses, making a fool out of yourself, excuses, excuses, excuses....
ozroke1 2 years ago
only a retard like you would ignore the fact that seles out aced graf 8 aces to grafs 1 the last match they played before she got stabbed and it was the first tiome she ever outaced graf this proves she was stronger than in previous years u retard,u are just blind or stupid or both to ignore this important statistic.
jayfey77 2 years ago
No, I haven't ignored it. I've acknowleged it and explained to you REPEATEDLY why it doesn't "prove" anything. You're just too in love with that statistic (and YOURSELF) to admit that it's really nowhere near as important as you're making it out to be. All you have to back up your argument is that one statistic, that has been rebutted over and over again, and repeated uses of "retard", "idiot", "stupid", "bilnd" and "fool". Your argument is piss weak. Face it, you really don't know tennis.
ozroke1 2 years ago
u have shown u know nothing about tennis the stronger player always outaces the weaker player and until the 93 final that was graf seles was showing she was much stronger now the difference between her 92 matches to the 93 one was that she wasnt acing graf thats why players like lendl always had more aces than agassi cause he was stronger,ur a damn fool my tennis collection shows i know more about tennis than u do.
jayfey77 2 years ago
All your tennis collection shows is that you have a tennis collection. Good for you. It doesn't show that you know anything. The fact that you think big serve = stronger player shows straight away just how little you know about tennis. You only have to look at the latest ace statistics on the ATP website. Only 3 of the top 10 players (Federer, Roddick and Soderling) actually made it into the top 10 aces list for the year. No 1 in that list is Karlovic, the world number 39. Yeah, real dominant...
ozroke1 2 years ago
more proof of ur stupidity sampras won many grand slams due to his serve u retard and the us open winner this year was del potro due to his big serve.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Ivanisevic out aced Sampras in a majority of their matches together. That, by YOUR logic, proves that Ivanisevic was a much stronger player than Sampras.
ozroke1 2 years ago
ivanisevic won a wimbledon because of his serve you retard and sampras had a big serve too ivanisevic only had a big serve he didnt have the rest of the game to go with it like seles did to graf,seles not just out aced graf she dominated graf that first set she lost was due to errors and i think seles just did that to get warmed up she did the same against novotna she could have won in straight sets if she wanted to the total dominance of the last 2 sets proves that.
jayfey77 2 years ago
"She could have won in straight sets if she wanted to."
Then why didn't she? Are you saying she lost the first set intentionally? What a load of rubbish. Why would she not have wanted to win in straight sets? Seles was one of the most determined and focused champions around. If it would've been so easy for her to win in straight sets, she would have. I also don't think she would appreciate you suggesting that she was arrogant enough to throw away a set on purpose, just to lead her opponent on.
ozroke1 2 years ago
she did the same against jana novotna u retard she just always feels out the opponent and makes errors and then destroys them in the last 2 sets both that match and the novotna match prove this.
jayfey77 2 years ago
"she just always feels out the opponent and makes errors and then destroys them in the last 2 sets"
...like she did with Mary Joe Fernandez in the semi-final of that tournament, when she lost the second set 6-0? Seles won 235 matches in 1990-93. 33 of those went to 3 sets and in over half of them (18) Seles lost the second set. But you'll just ignore that because it's not convenient for you. The Novotna and Graf match that you keep going on about are the only ones that mean anything...
ozroke1 2 years ago
that mary joe match is totally different because seles didnt win the second set you retard,im talking about matches where she lost the first set at the australian open you fool.
jayfey77 2 years ago
umm...that's exactly my point. You're really crap with logic, aren't you? Seles didn't win the second set in that match, along with over half of the matches she played that went to 3 sets over that period. This proves that she doesn't just throw away the first set to "feel her opponent out". If she did, there would be a much higher percentage of first set losses in her 3 set matches. She didn't just throw away the first set in those to matches, she lost them. Stop making a fool out of yourself.
ozroke1 2 years ago
seles did win the second set and the 3rd set you retard,she lost the first set to graf like she did novotna you fool,and it was only in the australian open finals did she do this before the stabbing,u have been proven wrong yet again.
jayfey77 2 years ago
I was referring to the Mary Joe Fernandez match. I know perfectly well that she lost the first set in the Australian Open finals with Novotna and Graf. You're completely missing the point. If Seles didn't try in the opening sets of her matches to "feel her opponent out", she would have a high percentage of first set losses in her 3 set matches. But she doesn't, it's less than half. This shows that she genuinely lost those first sets in those two matches, it wasn't from a lack of trying.
ozroke1 2 years ago
i know you were referringf to the mary joe match and thats why i said that match is stupid to bring upo because she didnt lose the first set in that matcvh like she did in the finals to graf and novotna so for u to bring up the mary joe match shows ur stupidity its like comparing apples to oranges.
jayfey77 2 years ago
no, it's not stupid to bring up, it's perfectly legitimate. It's not like comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing an apple to another apple. The only reason you don't like it is because it proves that you're blatantly wrong, and you're just too childish to admit to it. You said that Seles always plays badly in the first set and destroys her opponents in the next 2 sets. That match, and the 17 other 3 setters where she doesn't do that proves that you're wrong. Deal with it.
ozroke1 2 years ago
no i said seles only played badly in the first set in the aust final you retard and this is more proof how ignorant u are and how u ignore fact the other novotna final proves this too,u are just in loser denial.
jayfey77 2 years ago
I know what you said. Let me remind you..."she just always feels out the opponent and makes errors and then destroys them in the last 2 sets".
The fact that Seles lost the second set in over half of her 3 set matches during 1990-93 proves that she doesn't do this. But you only consider TWO matches where she does lose the first set and call it proof that this is what she does in all her matches. The only person ignoring facts here is you. You're the one with the losing argument.
ozroke1 2 years ago
she only did that in the finals at the australian open you are ignoring this fact.
jayfey77 2 years ago
...and why is this fact important? Why would Seles have treated these two particular matches any different from the hundreds of other matches she played during her career? Why are those TWO matches at the ONE tournament more of an indication of how Seles approaches her matches than all the other matches she played during that time?
ozroke1 2 years ago
she did the same thing in the us open final in 92 she didnt even play well the whole tournament till the final against arantxa even the announcers said so.
jayfey77 2 years ago
...so it doesn't matter. The fact that they were both Australian Open finals isn't significant. You're just holding onto it because your argument is so weak, you have nothing else to hold onto. Glad we got that cleared up. :)
ozroke1 2 years ago
bullshit the 8 aces to grafs one is significant because it proves seles was entering her prime since she never outaced graf in the past,she was getting because she was entering her prime you retard.
jayfey77 2 years ago
a) I've already shown you why that ONE statistic in that ONE match isn't important. By continuing to call it proof of ANYTHING, you're just making yourself out to be an idiot. For your own sake, just stop.
b) That still doesn't tell me why the 91 and 93 AO finals are more of an indication of how Seles approached all of her matches than every other match she played during those three years.
c) You are a moron.
ozroke1 2 years ago
because you retard the australian open final she always did that because she liked to feel out the opponent first,you are the biggest retard ive met on youtube and in loser denial for ignoring the 8 aces to grafs one that proves seles was entering her prime you idiot and it proves seles was dominating graf.
jayfey77 2 years ago
"Dominating" as in "having lost 3 of the previous 4 matches and 7 of the previous 10 sets"?
1991 Houston: GRAF 6-4 6-3
1991 Hamburg: GRAF 7-5 6-7 6-3
1992 French Open: Seles 6-2 3-6 10-8
1992 Wimbledon: GRAF 6-2 6-1
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
dominating as in having womn their last match before she got stabbed which gave seles a 4-3 edge over graf and having 8 aces to grafs 1 showing she was entering her prime and now stronger to dominate graf you retard.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Again with the 8 aces to 1 statistic. Do you have any idea how pathetic you sound?
ozroke1 2 years ago
Graf hit 8 aces against Hingis in the FO 99 final.
Which proves that she was entering her prime ...
:-))
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
lol. Oh yeah, totally!
ozroke1 2 years ago
graf wasnt a young woman like seles was u fool when she hit the 8 aces to grafs 1, and the fact that it was the first time she did that against seles proves she was entering her prime.
jayfey77 2 years ago
No it doesn't. Vaguely suggests? Perhaps. Proves? No. Surely that'll get through to that thick head of yours eventually...
ozroke1 2 years ago
so what? hingis won the last of her match against davenport but davenport still leads 14-11, that A93 final is baseless assumption. give us something other than that 1 match.
oh wait a min, of course you can't give another match to back you up, cuz there aren't any other matches that proved seles was dominant.
get a life!
yaoryu 2 years ago
Again, I haven't ignored it. YOU have ignored the fact that I have shown over and over again it doesn't prove anything. You are the one ignoring the fact that the two Australian open finals where Seles lost the first set are only two matches and are no indication that Seles just "feels her opponents out" in the first set so she can "destroy them in the next 2" when she doesn't do that in her other 3 set matches. You are the only person ignoring the facts. And the fact is, you have no argument.
ozroke1 2 years ago
there is no other 3 matches u fool its just the 2 finals before she was stabbed at the ao finals.
jayfey77 2 years ago
I said "3 set matches".
I know perfectly well that they're the two finals at the Australian Open before the stabbing. We've established that long ago. You still haven't explained why those two matches prove anything. Why would Seles have approached those two particular matches any differently to any of her other matches?
ozroke1 2 years ago
every surface is different you fool.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Umm, duh. And?
ozroke1 2 years ago
both those matches were 3 set matches you idiot.
jayfey77 2 years ago
I never said they weren't.
ozroke1 2 years ago
yeah you did.
jayfey77 2 years ago
When?
ozroke1 2 years ago
But Graf hit more winners in that match. As almost always.
Which proves that Graf was the better player. It was hers to lose or win a match against Seles.
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
oh bullcrap graf was smoked in the 3rd set 6-2 shenever had a chance.
jayfey77 2 years ago
Then why did Graf hit 9 winners and Seles only 5 in that set?
Hoffenheim08 2 years ago
thats why seles won the last set 6-2 total domination.
jayfey77 2 years ago
deal with the real facts you idiot! graf was, is and always better than seles. there's nothing you can do to change facts, let alone HISTORY. pathetic.
yaoryu 2 years ago
fact is seles was dominating womens tennis when she was stabbed you retard.
jayfey77 2 years ago
umm, duh. No-ones disputing that. It's whether or not she would have continued to do so which is the question, and a single ace count does not prove anything.
ozroke1 2 years ago
seles would have dominated till 97 at least in my opinion she wasnt even close to the same player she was before the stabbing when she came back the 93 ao proves she was dominating you idiot as well as winning 3 grand slams a year and the masters.
jayfey77 2 years ago
"u have been proven wrong yet again"
What are you talking about, you have yet to prove ANYTHING that I have said as being wrong. You also have yet to prove that your opinion is right. You just keep using the same argument that has been proven wrong over and over again.
ozroke1 2 years ago
you are so stupid seles wasnt trying very hard to win those first sets thats why she smoked them in the last 2 you retard.
jayfey77 2 years ago
...and your evidence for that is???
ozroke1 2 years ago
to ozroke1: You convinced me :)
yevshif 2 years ago
Thanks :)
ozroke1 2 years ago
Oh, and just so you know, Federer out aced Del potro in that US Open final (14-8). I wonder what lame excuse you'll come up with for that...
ozroke1 2 years ago