Medieval Norse authors themselves, e.g. Islandic Snorri Sturluson - wrote that the royal Viking lineage had Finnish origins. Medieval sagas reveal the royal lineage in detail.
No surprise that the most numerous Merovingian swords, largest Viking Age tombs etc. have been discovered in Finland.
Rurikid DNA test too points to Rurik having been Finnish and Catherine 2nd knew to tell that the Varangians were Finnish.
Swedish Rudbeckius in 1702 wrote that still then Northern Sweden was "Kvenland".
@TheJeremyxxx And yet again bullshit, Accourding to the latest genetic research on some of the old Viking kings it prooved that they all had the I1 genes and not the Siberian Finno-Ugric N1c1.
The largest Viking tombs and largest Viking findings have been found in Scandinavia, Since the Vikings originated from Scandinavia. Anundshög is the largest burrial mound in the entire Northern region.
They havent found Ruriks grave yet, So its impossible to determine what genetics he had.
@joonte1010 The Rurikids belong to the Finnic Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1. No Siberia relation. Rurik was from north of Stockholm - then Kvenland.
The most remarkable Viking swords and veapons are from Finland. Besides, in the 1st millennium AD, most land of Scandinavia was a part of Kvenland.
In c. 750 AD, the Norna-Gests þáttr saga mentions that the king of Denmark and Sweden Sigurd Ring fought against the invading Curonians (Finnic tribe) and Kvens in the very southernmost part of today's Sweden.
@TheJeremyxxx North Of Stockholm was the heartland of the Swedes during the Viking era and earlier - The Royal mounds from the Vendel era and Birka and so on all the burrial mounds is of North Germanic origin and the earliest runestone with inscription found up there is in Pre-Norse. No Kvens up there neither. And they have never found Ruriks grave as i mentioned in my precious comments .
@joonte1010 North from Roslages seashore was Norrland. It was not a part of Sweden, and there's no map or info to show the contrary. It was a part of Kvenland based of plenty of evidence.
@TheJeremyxxx Roslagen aswell as all the areas in Uppland was the heartland of the Swedes during and way before the Viking era. Findings from as early as the 6th century of North Germanic origin.
@joonte10 Runestone in Uppland, Viking stronghold, refers to Finnveden in Southern Sweden, a part of the primeval Kvenland. Most runestones in Finnveden describe men who died in England.
@TheJeremyxxx Runestones (The runic inscription used) was a North Germanic thing and not Finno-Ugric.Finnveden might have started out as a Ugric place but the people were either killed or chased away.
@TheJeremyxxx There is no genetical proof for that since there hardly is any N1c1 to be found there. They were either killed or chased away- Which was normal back in the bronze age.
@TheJeremyxxx Today the people in former "Finnveden" in Småland have few to none Finno-Ugric genes. IF Finnveden once was settled by ugrics before the Viking age, They were certainly killed off.
@TheJeremyxxx Wrong, Since there is no genetical proof for that- The Finno - Ugric N1c1 is extremely rare there. And the few N1c1 you can find there is obviously from modern Finnish immigrants.
Of course it was "heartland" of the Kven kings, the Viking leaders, because it was a part of the historical Kvenland. Everything above Uppland (where Stockholm too is located) was still Kvenland in the end of the Viking Age..
@TechnoKathy Uppland was the heartland of the SWEDISH people. The burrial mounds, The findings,The runeinscriptions ALL indicates a North Germanic group of people Fucking lunatic..
@TheJeremyxxx The Vikings (Swedes and Norwegians) was a very superstitiously people - They found the Kven/Sami shamans fascinating.. But more that? No? They saw the Kvens/Samis as a primitive people (They survived on their surroundings - By fishing and hunting, Reindeer herders). The Norwegians had more bussines with these Kvens/Samis, Often forced taxes from them and so on. The Swedes however cared little for the territories above them - They named all the unexplored areas above them "Kvenland"
@joonte1010 Not true. The Swedes did not name Kvenland. Kvenland was discussed in many accounts before the first ever Swedish chronicle was published - the Eric's Chronicle in 1335 AD.
@TheJeremyxxx The people that heard about "kvenland" got it from the Swedes they past by or visited when they asked about their people and who they had their borders with.
@joonte1010 No evidence for that - only to the contrary. Like then, even up to date the Norwegians call the Kvens "Kvens". The Swedes were/are in part Kvens themselves (Norwegians too).
@TheJeremyxxx Neither Swedes or Norwegians have never been any "kvens" as you call them. Genetics and archaelogical evidence proves you wrong. I feel sorry for you, But your wrong!
@joonte1010 The Nordic peoples simply became called Icelandic, Norse, Swedes and Finns. However, they are all people who assimilated and mixed with the Kvens - gradually, over centuries.
@TheJeremyxxx You have a hard time understanding do you? The Kvens were primitives! No kingdom, No towns,Villages. Search for "Archaeological density Sweden" Notice the former "kvenland".
@joonte1010 Stockholm is a Finnish Kven "village". St. Petersburg is a Finnish village called Nevanlinna. Murmansk is a Finnish village called Muurmanni, and so on.
@TheJeremyxxx Stockholm was founded and built by order of Birger Jarl in the early 13th century! St.Petersburg wasnt built until late in history by Tsar Peter!
@TheJeremyxxx Cities such as Helsingfors,Åbo e.t.c were founded and built by order of the Kings of Sweden. All the castles around in Finland today were founded and built by Sweden.
@joonte1010 They were "founded" (renamed) during the time of the historic Sweden - yes -, but Finland was then as much Sweden as Sweden now is Sweden. The Finns have created both Sweden and Finland. Please try to understand your past, and to be proud of it.
@TechnoKathy Your insanity keeps growing and growing for every comment you make apparently.There is NO EVIDENCE forANY of the bullshit you bring up.Archaeology and Genetics provesME right andYOU wrong
@TechnoKathy "Finland" back in the time when your people were subjects to the Swedish king was nothing else than a PROVINCE to Sweden, Much like Skåne,Halland e.t.c is today!
@TheJeremyxxx Kvenland was explored and colonised late in Swedish History, The first king to send out Swedes to explore that wasteland was Gustav Vasa.
@joonte1010 No, for instance the Stockholm area and the entire Uppland was transformed (renamed) from Kvenland to Sweden long before. The kven kings themselves indeed were in charge of the process.
The early Sveas (Svear) and Getes (Götar) are presented without early royalty. The Kven kings are explained to have come their rulers.
@TechnoKathy You are trying to change history!To twist the facts we have today into fitting your false theorys,Thank god for archaeology!It will always prove your kind you wrong! Slavs and (lol)Finns
@TechnoKathy The findings we have in Uppland today is all of North Germanic origin - The way the people and kings were burried was North Germanic, The Runestones = North Germanic.
@TheJeremyxxx Sweden formed Finland, Founded its towns,Cities its main roads. Kareleen was forced INTO Östlandet as the Swedes called it during the Swedish era in Finland.
@joonte1010 The name of the nation was Sweden. Yet, it was a combined project. The coutry was established by descendants of Finnic Kvens, brought up largely by Finns, just like Finland too
@TheJeremyxxx Kvenland (Which the Swedes called everything unexplored above them)wasnt explored and colonised yet by the Swedes back in the medieval age.
@joonte1010 During a post -medieval period many names were translated to Swedish or they were latinized. Later, names were translated to Finnish again. The people were primarily Finns.
@joonte1010 No, the earliest Swedish literary works were done by Finns. Finnish Jöns Budde indeed translated the Bible to Swedish. He did it in Naantali, in the present-day Finland.
A couple of the Paris Sorbonne University headmasters in were from Finland already during the medieval time. The true birth of civilization of Sweden took place in Finland.
Also, the medieval Finns indeed studied in the Central European universities in much larger numbers than the students from Uppland.
@TechnoKathy The birth of SWEDEN took place in SWEDEN, It was the Geats,Svear and Gutes togheter that formed SWEDEN. They later expanded eastwards - annexed todays Finland e.t.c
@TechnoKathy The capital was located in SWEDEN, The king was located in SWEDEN, The kings rarely went to Finland. The structure of power was in SWEDEN. finland was nothing else than a PROVINCE.
@TechnoKathy Name some of those Finnish persons that studied in Central Europe? WHEN Uppsala university wasnt closed down due to rumours of their chatolic worshipping and anti-King propaganda.
@TheJeremyxxx Even your false patriotic feelings over your country was first created by Swedes in order to provent the Finns from being assimilated into the Russian Empire after 1809.
@joonte1010 There's no evidence of the Kvens having been primitive in any form or fashion - only very much in contrary (appears to have been explained to you already).
The finest Viking Age burial site artifact discoveries indeed are from Finland. That alone ought to tell you something.
According to Wiik, c. 6000 years ago (perhaps long before too), a Finnic language was spoken in Central Europe. Sveas were nomads prior to meeting Kvens, the leaders of whom became Sweden's kings.
@TechnoKathy You have evidence for NOTHING! Other than your own delusional theorys and twisting of facts into fiction. You are a lunatic, A Virus that is trying to steal the achievements of others.
@joonte1010 That has already been answered, with sources. The Kvens created the Norwegian and Swedish kingdoms, as already discussed. Like others, you ought to be proud of it, as a Kven.
@TheJeremyxxx No,You havent brought up any evidences!Nothing at all!You dismiss the evidences we have today in archaeology and genetics and twist the sagas into fitting your ideas! Your a damn lunatic
@joonte1010 Quite the contrary, according to all historical accounts, including the Norse sagas. All these accounts reveal that the Finnish Kven kings created the kingdoms of Sweden and Norway.
Talking about nomads, the first Swedish sage appeared as late as 1335 - the Eric's Chronicle, which knew to report that the Finns had destroyed and humiliated the Swedish capitol, Sigtuna :)
So much to be proud of, and even that saga is presumed to have been written by a Finn.
@TechnoKathy "accourding to all the historical accounts" what other historical accounts? There is no other historical accounts. Except for one saga. Give me the source.
@TechnoKathy Talkinga bout humiliation? The Swedes conquered your lands and made your backward people into subjects to the Swedish crown = 600 years of Swedish rule and then a 100 extra under Russian.
@TechnoKathy Talkinga bout humiliation? The Swedes conquered your lands and made your backward people into subjects to the Swedish crown = 600 years of Swedish rule and then a 100 extra under Russian.
@TechnoKathy So much to be proud of you say?And still here you are!Trying to steal my ancestors achievements and my History,Without any valid evidence! No archaeology and genetics dont support you.
@TechnoKathy Finland became indepedent in 1917 -Still living in towns,Still using the roads the Swedes created.Whining about Karelia the Swedes conquered and made into a part of the province Östlandet
@TechnoKathy A people which CULTURE is Swedish, The castles ruins around in Finland today was built by SwedenThe university in Åbo or whatever=Built by Sweden e.t.c
@TechnoKathy The delusional patriotism you have = Created by Swedes in order to provent Finland from being assimilated into Russia including the selfcreated image of yourself as warriors haha :P
@TechnoKathy No, Finns dont have much to be proud of - I guess thats why you are here, Trying to steal the history and achievements of a more succesfull people.
@TechnoKathy Where did they go? They are completely gone!The genetics over the Swedish people today is by far dominated by I1,R1b and R1a - Only 7% have the Ugric N1c1 Most of these arrived after WW2
@TheJeremyxxx Search for"Elder futhark inscriptions"throughgoogle and look at the picture pointings out the places were elder futharkinscriptions have been found in NorthernEurope.This is 6th century.
@joonte1010 Again, there is no support for your nonsense - none. Haven't you noticed that no historian has ever confused the Sami and Kvens like you :)
If you mean to spread false truth, the fact is that you are only succeeding to make yourself sound pathetic. Just about everyone in the world knows the difference between the Finns and the Sami - now and in the past.
@TechnoKathy And you claim the Viking word Finnr = Sami to be nonsense! Oh what a SURPRISE! Not only have you rejected archaeological proofs against your madness but also Genetic evidence!
@joonte1010 You confuse the Lapps (Sami) and the Finnish people.
Tacitus in 97 AD describes the Sami like you do, but he talks about the Kvens (Sitones) separately (and never indeed have the Samis been called Kvens in medieval texts):
"Upon the Suiones, border the people Sitones; and, agreeing with them in all other things, differ from them in one, that here the sovereignty is exercised by a woman."
@TechnoKathy Where is the large towns? Burrial mounds? Everything you expect to find in an organised Kingdom? Where is all this in the former wastelands of Kvenland (Norrland)??
@TechnoKathy Search for "Archaeological density sweden" on Google, Look at the picture over Scandinavia.Compare "Kvenland/Norrland"With the Southern and Central part of Sweden - Swedish settled areas.
@TheJeremyxxx No archaeological findings have been found in "kvenland" of importance, They had no large towns, No large Villages.. They were primitive nomads.
@joonte1010 Pls use Google to see where the finest Merovingian swords are from: Finland and Germany.
The 30 meters long and 4 meters tall King's Tomb made of stones in Finland is the largest cairn in Northern Europe, dating to c. 500 BC - 1000 AD. According to the legend, a king was buried in that dome. Which one of the kings mentioned in the sagas, is unknown.
World's oldest fishing net, sleigh runner, skates are from Finland - most ancient skies too. Search for Antrea fishing net, 8300 BC.
@TheJeremyxxx Raknehaugen In Norway is the largest mound in Scandinavia (with a diameter of 100 meters and 15 meter tall followed by the Uppsala Royal mounds from the vendel era and the Anundshög. The Finnish mound is in a baby size compared to these giants.
Worlds oldest fishing net e.t.c proves nothing, Only that they were a fishing people.
@joonte101 The present-day Western Finland is rich with the ancient burial sites and large tombs built of stones.
This answer depends of what period we are comparing and what type of burial sites.
The Romerike site is actually 77 meters in diameter, not 100. It is said to have been a burial site of at least one Kven king.
In the 9th century, Kven King Harald Fairhair's father, Halfdan the Black, subdued the area by defeating and killing Sigtryg, the previous ruler, in battle.
@j The legendary royal lineage became to be known as the dynasty of Ynglings. It is the oldest known Scandinavian clan and dynasty, also referred to as the Fairhair dynasty.
@joonte1010 According to the medieval accounts, the royal Finnish-Kven stock descended from the Kven kings of Oppland, Norway, who had sprung from Nór's great-grandson Halfdan the Old.
@joonte1010 You appear to suggest that the Kvens were Samis. Yet, all evidence - including all medieval saga information and all archaeological, linguistic and DNA evidence - fully discredit your claim.
To my knowledge, no known and reputable historian in the world has ever suggested that the Kvens were Samis. Who has ? May we have the book and page number, please.
The average Swede and Norwegian is a proud part descendant of an ancient Kven.
@TheJeremyxxx Swedes and Norwegians is a North Germanic group of people. As i stated earlier, The N1c1 is in a miniority in Scandianvia. Only 7% of the Swedish population have it - And the majority of those 7% Swedes of finnish origin arrived during WW2. What is your evidence that Swedes and Norwegians would ne part descendant from these Nomad reindeer herders the Kvens?
@joonte1010 Nomad swere the Sveas - if anyone -, as pointed with sources. Notably, you haven't provided evidence yet showing that even in just one book of any historian Samis would have ever been called Kvens.
Why do you think there is this inability for you to provide a source. Did the kven boys call you names or show you a middle finger, as you seem to have devoted to call them Sami (not that there is anything bad about the Sami - quite the contrary, they are resilient people) ?
@TechnoKathy You havent given me any sources at all - This is impossible. I have given you sources to look up. Still you deny everything, You deny the facts we have today, The archaeology,The genetic research. You are as i have stated several times a confused and a sad little person with a delusional mind. But i agree with one thing, That i disagree a 110% with everything you have claimed here, I am off to bed since the clock is 02:20 am - Good Night.
@joonte1010 - History studies ought to be based mainly on reading, instead of only writing and/or spreading nonsense and myths. Do not trust all that you encounter on YouTube.
The video provides only a partial truth. Hopefully the maker of it too will come in terms with the related details in more depth.
@TheJeremyxxx You are the one spreading nonsense and Myths - Your base of information is the Norse sagas which is BASED on myths. You have no archaeological evidence that support your claims.. Your nothing else than a mentally disturbed Finn trying to steal the achievement of the Swedish and Norwegians ancestors.
@joonte1010 Why would the Scandinavian authors have written all the stuff about the Kvens and how the Viking leaders descended from them? Why would they honor the Kvens that way?
The sagas largely match each other and are backed by archaeology too. Furthermore, in the Orkneyinga saga no geographical errors have been found. Why would the people have been lied about?
Based on the first Swedish chronicle, the Finns destroyed the Viking capitol Sigtuna. Did all Nordic historians lie?
@TechnoKathy They havent said that Viking kings originated from these nomad people, Its just you twisting the information you read to suit your view better.
@joonte1010 Just 1 example: In Skáldskaparmál, Snorri Sturluson points that the Ynglings' origins are in the "Eastern Land" - i.e. "Österland" as Finland was officially called at the time.
@TheJeremyxxx Eastern land as in todays Turkey- He calimed their origin to be in Asarland (Some historians points out Azersbadjan). Österlandet was a Swedish word for todays Finland "1400 - 1809".
@TheJeremyxxx You are twisting the words to fit your view, Nothing else. Finland wasnt known as Österlandet back then, Österlandet was the Swedish name for "Finland" during the Swedish era in Finland.
@TechnoKathy Sigtuna was attacked but it is uncetain where the pirates came from. The Swedes used this as an excuse to attack Kareleen, So the pirates most likely came from kareleen.
@joonte1010 You mean that the people who destroyed Sigtuna came from "Karelia". Weather those people were Kvens or Karelians, they were Finnish either way.
@TheJeremyxxx They were either Karelians or Curonians certainly NOT kvens. The Swedes attacked the Crunonians on the island of Ösel aswell after that raid and the Karelians they invaded after.
@joonte1010 On Kemijoki River an ancient area named Sihtuuna is believed to have been named after Sigtuna. Vikings intruded there. Kvens are believed to have taken a revenge in Sigtuna.
@TheJeremyxxx Seriously,And how did the Kvens make it all the way down to Sigtuna? Did they ride down on their reindeers?No,The Kvens were primitives-It was either Karelians or Curonians that made it.
"Sigurd Ring (Sigurðr) was not there, since he had to defend his land, Sweden (Svíþjóð), since Curonians (Kúrir) and Kvens (Kvænir) were raiding there."
@TheJeremyxxx So? What says that nomad people cant raid a more advanced people? The Vikings were not as advanced as Byzantians and the Swedes launched several attacks towards their great city.
@joonte1010 Widsith, written in 'Old English' in c. 600 AD, discusses the Kvens and the Greeks in the same context. Note: Not Swedes. There was no such a thing as a Swedish civilization.
@TheJeremyxxx The Swedish (Suiones,Rus) civilisation is the one found in todays Uppland back then - Its heart was in Old Uppsala where the Royal mounds are located and here Uppsala temple was.
@TheJeremyxxx Widsith never visited the Kvens, The kvens have never been a great Kingdom in any sense! Nor did they have a civilisation. They were primitives!
@joonte1010 Same way the Kvens raided Southern Sweden. That also answers to your question as to whether or not the Kvens were organized. You better begin reading the works of your authors.
@TheJeremyxxx The Kvens were not organised, They were a nomad people - They were a hunter/gathering people. They walked around - They didnt settle down to create towns and villages.
"Sigurd Ring (Sigurðr) was not there, since he had to defend his land, Sweden (Svíþjóð), since Curonians (Kúrir) and Kvens (Kvænir) were raiding there."
@joonte1010 Although the Samis have been called Fenni (Tacitus, 97 AD), Skridfinnar (skiing Finns) etc., they have never been called Kvens and they have always been described as a separate group from the Kvens, and very different.
Like you, Tacitus describes the Samis (Fenni) as hunters, etc., but Kvens differently:
"Upon the Suiones, border the people Sitones; and, agreeing with them in all other things, differ from them in one, that here the sovereignty is exercised by a woman."
@joonte1010 Certainly there is a good amount of archaeological findings in the modern-day Area of Sweden too. The point is though that those areas in question were once a part of Kvenland.
@TheJeremyxxx Northern Sweden have few to none archaeological findings - Compare it with the Central and southern part of Sweden which were inhabitant by Swedes as early as the 6th century.
@TheJeremyxxx There is no Archaeological findings after the Kvens that suggest them to have settled down in a longer time anywhere -What kind of religion did they have? No religious artifact findings.
@TheJeremyxxx Northern Sweden or as the Swedes before called "Kvenland" was a big wasteland which inhabitants was Samis/Kvens living on their surroundings (Fishing,Hunting) reindeer herders.
@TheJeremyxxx The greatest threat for the Scandinavians (Swedes,Norwegians and Danes) were eachother. They often raided eachothers towns and villages.
@ The Kvens travelled the same way as in the raid of Southern Sweden. In 750, the Norna-Gests þáttr:
"Sigurd Ring (Sigurðr) was not there, since he had to defend his land, Sweden (Svíþjóð), since Curonians (Kúrir) and Kvens (Kvænir) were raiding there."
Even the heroes of the "Swedes" were Kvens, as e.g. Grammaticus points out. Of the legendary Battle of Bråvalla (c. 750) - Swedes against the Geats - he writes:
''Now the bravest of the Swedes were these: Arwakki, Keklu-Karl ..."
@joonte1010 All major "Swedish" military operations anywhere and any time were primarily led by Finnic commanders. On eastbound direction, even the armies were formed of mainly Finns.
@TheJeremyxxx The Swedish invasions of todays Finland,Karelen and the surrounding areas were fought by Swedes and lead by Swedish commanders or even Kings from times to times.
@joonte1010 There really were never invasions of Finland by Swedes. The wars which you refer to took place between the Catholic west and the Orthodox east, largely Finns against Finns.
@TheJeremyxxx Wrong again, Since the Swedes aimed to expand their territories eastwards and to annex the "Finnish" lands into the Swedish realm- Which the Swedes did with great success.
@joonte1010 Sweden grew to the lands of the Finnic peoples, with the combined efforts of the Finnic people, Sveas and Götas. The ones attacking the Karelians were "Sweden's" western Finns.
@TheJeremyxxx hahaha, What else can i do than laugh at this stupidity? Finns were looked upon as subhumans by the Swedes back then -As primitive savages.
@joonte1010 Early "Swedish" civilization particularly was on the Finnish side. Turku sent 7 times more students to Wittenberg than Uppsala. Finnish Jöns Budde translated Bible to Swedish.
@Ekaterina777ism Its because it was seen as a center of chatolism and as a potential place for people disloyal to the crown. This was in the 17th century Sweden not "Early" Swedish Kingdom.
@Ekaterina777ism And yes, It was and still is called Swedish Kingdom - Finland didnt excist back then but was a part of Sweden called Östlandet just like Småland,Närke and so on.
@joonte1010 Sweden was the name of the country created and gradually formed by the combined efforts of the Finnish people and the Getes and Sveas, established by Finnic Kven kings.
@TheJeremyxxx It was the Svear,Geats and Guts that togheter formed Sweden. The first mentioning of the modern day Sweden came during the 13th century when Magnus Ladulås was King.
@j Finland for a time in Sweden was called Österland where the Yngling royal family originated, based on Norse sagas and a large amount of medieval texts. Finland was also called Finland.
@TheJeremyxxx No, Wrong again - Finland was only called "Österlandet" by the Swedes When Finland was a part of Sweden. Finland didnt excist back then and where thus named Östlandet.
@TechnoKathy In Sweden, yes! But the sagas reffered Österlandet as something completely different - As the homeland for the gods (Asaland). Egil pointed out Turkland. Other historians Azersbadjan.
@TheJeremyxxx As i stated in one of my previous comments,Ynglingaätten have their origin from asaland(Which certain historians have placed in Azersbadjan and Turkland as Egil claimed them to be from).
@joonte1010 In addition to pointing out that the Ynglins originated from the Eastern Land, In the Ynglinga Saga the Icelandic bishop and historian Snorri Sturluson indicates that there had been marriages between the Finnish and Swedish royal families.
These marriages are discussed in the sagas, and for instance Vanlande's winter abode (home) in Finland is brought up:
"Once he took up his winter abode in Finland with Snae the Old, and got his daughter Driva in marriage ...".
@TechnoKathy You keep brining up the same crap over and over again, But when i ask about evidence based on archaeological findings or Genetics you have none!
@TheJeremyxxx These people are belivied to have brought with them new technologies that gave birth to the Nordic Bronze age found in Sweden,Denmark - The finns were to backward.
@TheJeremyxxx "Finland" The Swedes first called a small area around todays Åbo - Later it was named "Finland proper" - Just as there was Tavastia and so on. The name the Swedes choosed to describe all these places was Östlandet,The land east of Sweden. Östlandet was but a province to Sweden just like Närke,Småland,Bohuslän,Skåne and so on is today.
@Ekaterina777ism Even the selfcreated picture of yourself as strong warriors and shit like that was first created by finn of Swedish origin(FinnSwedes).
@joonte101 A Swede is not Finnish only through Kvenland. On the 16th and 17th centuries, a large amount of Finns began inhabiting Sweden. After WW2, a huge number of Finns moved to Sweden.
watch?v=jm13U5rJCMk
|
|
V
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
Medieval Norse authors themselves, e.g. Islandic Snorri Sturluson - wrote that the royal Viking lineage had Finnish origins. Medieval sagas reveal the royal lineage in detail.
No surprise that the most numerous Merovingian swords, largest Viking Age tombs etc. have been discovered in Finland.
Rurikid DNA test too points to Rurik having been Finnish and Catherine 2nd knew to tell that the Varangians were Finnish.
Swedish Rudbeckius in 1702 wrote that still then Northern Sweden was "Kvenland".
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 6
@TheJeremyxxx And yet again bullshit, Accourding to the latest genetic research on some of the old Viking kings it prooved that they all had the I1 genes and not the Siberian Finno-Ugric N1c1.
The largest Viking tombs and largest Viking findings have been found in Scandinavia, Since the Vikings originated from Scandinavia. Anundshög is the largest burrial mound in the entire Northern region.
They havent found Ruriks grave yet, So its impossible to determine what genetics he had.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 The Rurikids belong to the Finnic Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1. No Siberia relation. Rurik was from north of Stockholm - then Kvenland.
The most remarkable Viking swords and veapons are from Finland. Besides, in the 1st millennium AD, most land of Scandinavia was a part of Kvenland.
In c. 750 AD, the Norna-Gests þáttr saga mentions that the king of Denmark and Sweden Sigurd Ring fought against the invading Curonians (Finnic tribe) and Kvens in the very southernmost part of today's Sweden.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 3
@TheJeremyxxx North Of Stockholm was the heartland of the Swedes during the Viking era and earlier - The Royal mounds from the Vendel era and Birka and so on all the burrial mounds is of North Germanic origin and the earliest runestone with inscription found up there is in Pre-Norse. No Kvens up there neither. And they have never found Ruriks grave as i mentioned in my precious comments .
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 North from Roslages seashore was Norrland. It was not a part of Sweden, and there's no map or info to show the contrary. It was a part of Kvenland based of plenty of evidence.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Roslagen aswell as all the areas in Uppland was the heartland of the Swedes during and way before the Viking era. Findings from as early as the 6th century of North Germanic origin.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx search for Möjbro Runestone.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte10 Runestone in Uppland, Viking stronghold, refers to Finnveden in Southern Sweden, a part of the primeval Kvenland. Most runestones in Finnveden describe men who died in England.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx Runestones (The runic inscription used) was a North Germanic thing and not Finno-Ugric.Finnveden might have started out as a Ugric place but the people were either killed or chased away.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010
The original inhabitants of Finnveden are presumed to have assimilated and mixed with the people who now form the bulk of the Swedish population.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx There is no genetical proof for that since there hardly is any N1c1 to be found there. They were either killed or chased away- Which was normal back in the bronze age.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Today the people in former "Finnveden" in Småland have few to none Finno-Ugric genes. IF Finnveden once was settled by ugrics before the Viking age, They were certainly killed off.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 The people of Finnveden are presumed to have assimilated and mixed with the people who now form the bulk of the Swedish population.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx Wrong, Since there is no genetical proof for that- The Finno - Ugric N1c1 is extremely rare there. And the few N1c1 you can find there is obviously from modern Finnish immigrants.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Search for "Runestone density" and look at the picture through google on Sweden.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010
Of course it was "heartland" of the Kven kings, the Viking leaders, because it was a part of the historical Kvenland. Everything above Uppland (where Stockholm too is located) was still Kvenland in the end of the Viking Age..
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Uppland was the heartland of the SWEDISH people. The burrial mounds, The findings,The runeinscriptions ALL indicates a North Germanic group of people Fucking lunatic..
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The Kvens was a primitive Nomad people, Lurking around in the unexplored areas the Swedes hadnt colonised yet (Kvenland).
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The Kvens were Nomads, Following their reindeer herds - Surviving on their surroundings (Fishing,Hunting) Ancestors to todays Samis.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Since Tacitus, 97 AD, Kvens are separated from Samis.
The countries of Norway and Sweden were established by Kvens.
Hversu Noregr byggðist traces legendary Norwegian lineages from Finnish Fornjót down to Nór.
Heroic families famed in Scandinavian tradition outside Norway were of a Finnish stock too, mostly sprung from Nór's great-grandson Halfdan the Old.
Almost all lineages sprung from Halfdan are shown to reconvert in the person of Harald Fairhair, the first king of all Norway.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx The Vikings (Swedes and Norwegians) was a very superstitiously people - They found the Kven/Sami shamans fascinating.. But more that? No? They saw the Kvens/Samis as a primitive people (They survived on their surroundings - By fishing and hunting, Reindeer herders). The Norwegians had more bussines with these Kvens/Samis, Often forced taxes from them and so on. The Swedes however cared little for the territories above them - They named all the unexplored areas above them "Kvenland"
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Not true. The Swedes did not name Kvenland. Kvenland was discussed in many accounts before the first ever Swedish chronicle was published - the Eric's Chronicle in 1335 AD.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The people that heard about "kvenland" got it from the Swedes they past by or visited when they asked about their people and who they had their borders with.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 No evidence for that - only to the contrary. Like then, even up to date the Norwegians call the Kvens "Kvens". The Swedes were/are in part Kvens themselves (Norwegians too).
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Neither Swedes or Norwegians have never been any "kvens" as you call them. Genetics and archaelogical evidence proves you wrong. I feel sorry for you, But your wrong!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 The Nordic peoples simply became called Icelandic, Norse, Swedes and Finns. However, they are all people who assimilated and mixed with the Kvens - gradually, over centuries.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx You have a hard time understanding do you? The Kvens were primitives! No kingdom, No towns,Villages. Search for "Archaeological density Sweden" Notice the former "kvenland".
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Stockholm is a Finnish Kven "village". St. Petersburg is a Finnish village called Nevanlinna. Murmansk is a Finnish village called Muurmanni, and so on.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx Stockholm was founded and built by order of Birger Jarl in the early 13th century! St.Petersburg wasnt built until late in history by Tsar Peter!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 They were both built atop of Finnish villages, largely by Finns.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Search for "List of Finnish Nobles" on google.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Cities such as Helsingfors,Åbo e.t.c were founded and built by order of the Kings of Sweden. All the castles around in Finland today were founded and built by Sweden.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 They were "founded" (renamed) during the time of the historic Sweden - yes -, but Finland was then as much Sweden as Sweden now is Sweden. The Finns have created both Sweden and Finland. Please try to understand your past, and to be proud of it.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The Finns have created SHIT in Sweden. It was the SWEDES (Svear,Geats,Guts togheter formed Sweden) that formed todays FINLAND.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Your insanity keeps growing and growing for every comment you make apparently.There is NO EVIDENCE forANY of the bullshit you bring up.Archaeology and Genetics provesME right andYOU wrong
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy "Finland" back in the time when your people were subjects to the Swedish king was nothing else than a PROVINCE to Sweden, Much like Skåne,Halland e.t.c is today!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Kvenland was explored and colonised late in Swedish History, The first king to send out Swedes to explore that wasteland was Gustav Vasa.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 No, for instance the Stockholm area and the entire Uppland was transformed (renamed) from Kvenland to Sweden long before. The kven kings themselves indeed were in charge of the process.
The early Sveas (Svear) and Getes (Götar) are presented without early royalty. The Kven kings are explained to have come their rulers.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy More bullshit Without any evidence! The Uppland area had been settled by Swedes for hundreds of years before Stockholm was built!
Search for "pre migration age germanic" on google.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy You are trying to change history!To twist the facts we have today into fitting your false theorys,Thank god for archaeology!It will always prove your kind you wrong! Slavs and (lol)Finns
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The findings we have in Uppland today is all of North Germanic origin - The way the people and kings were burried was North Germanic, The Runestones = North Germanic.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The toponyms in the Uppland area and further south is all Swedish in origin, Also in the North.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The oldest Runestone located in Uppland from the 6th century has a proto-Norse inscription = Also North Germanic.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy You have devastating wrong in everything you try to claim. Confusing theorys that only can be made by a delusional mind.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Sweden formed Finland, Founded its towns,Cities its main roads. Kareleen was forced INTO Östlandet as the Swedes called it during the Swedish era in Finland.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 The name of the nation was Sweden. Yet, it was a combined project. The coutry was established by descendants of Finnic Kvens, brought up largely by Finns, just like Finland too
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Kvenland (Which the Swedes called everything unexplored above them)wasnt explored and colonised yet by the Swedes back in the medieval age.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Finlands greatest Literature works was made by Finns of Swedish origin.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 During a post -medieval period many names were translated to Swedish or they were latinized. Later, names were translated to Finnish again. The people were primarily Finns.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 No, the earliest Swedish literary works were done by Finns. Finnish Jöns Budde indeed translated the Bible to Swedish. He did it in Naantali, in the present-day Finland.
A couple of the Paris Sorbonne University headmasters in were from Finland already during the medieval time. The true birth of civilization of Sweden took place in Finland.
Also, the medieval Finns indeed studied in the Central European universities in much larger numbers than the students from Uppland.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The birth of SWEDEN took place in SWEDEN, It was the Geats,Svear and Gutes togheter that formed SWEDEN. They later expanded eastwards - annexed todays Finland e.t.c
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The capital was located in SWEDEN, The king was located in SWEDEN, The kings rarely went to Finland. The structure of power was in SWEDEN. finland was nothing else than a PROVINCE.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Name some of those Finnish persons that studied in Central Europe? WHEN Uppsala university wasnt closed down due to rumours of their chatolic worshipping and anti-King propaganda.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Are you going to try to change the Swedish history in the medieval age and forward now aswell? You delusional weirdo.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Even your false patriotic feelings over your country was first created by Swedes in order to provent the Finns from being assimilated into the Russian Empire after 1809.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 There's no evidence of the Kvens having been primitive in any form or fashion - only very much in contrary (appears to have been explained to you already).
The finest Viking Age burial site artifact discoveries indeed are from Finland. That alone ought to tell you something.
According to Wiik, c. 6000 years ago (perhaps long before too), a Finnic language was spoken in Central Europe. Sveas were nomads prior to meeting Kvens, the leaders of whom became Sweden's kings.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The Finest Viking age burial site artifacts from Finland? Which ones? Please give me a link or something!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy You have evidence for NOTHING! Other than your own delusional theorys and twisting of facts into fiction. You are a lunatic, A Virus that is trying to steal the achievements of others.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The Kvens were nomads - They lacked the ability to create kingdoms, To be organised like the North Germanic Swedes and Norwegians.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 That has already been answered, with sources. The Kvens created the Norwegian and Swedish kingdoms, as already discussed. Like others, you ought to be proud of it, as a Kven.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx No,You havent brought up any evidences!Nothing at all!You dismiss the evidences we have today in archaeology and genetics and twist the sagas into fitting your ideas! Your a damn lunatic
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Quite the contrary, according to all historical accounts, including the Norse sagas. All these accounts reveal that the Finnish Kven kings created the kingdoms of Sweden and Norway.
Talking about nomads, the first Swedish sage appeared as late as 1335 - the Eric's Chronicle, which knew to report that the Finns had destroyed and humiliated the Swedish capitol, Sigtuna :)
So much to be proud of, and even that saga is presumed to have been written by a Finn.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy "accourding to all the historical accounts" what other historical accounts? There is no other historical accounts. Except for one saga. Give me the source.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Talkinga bout humiliation? The Swedes conquered your lands and made your backward people into subjects to the Swedish crown = 600 years of Swedish rule and then a 100 extra under Russian.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TechnoKathy Talkinga bout humiliation? The Swedes conquered your lands and made your backward people into subjects to the Swedish crown = 600 years of Swedish rule and then a 100 extra under Russian.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy So much to be proud of you say?And still here you are!Trying to steal my ancestors achievements and my History,Without any valid evidence! No archaeology and genetics dont support you.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Finland became indepedent in 1917 -Still living in towns,Still using the roads the Swedes created.Whining about Karelia the Swedes conquered and made into a part of the province Östlandet
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy A people which CULTURE is Swedish, The castles ruins around in Finland today was built by SwedenThe university in Åbo or whatever=Built by Sweden e.t.c
yeahMuch to be proud of as a finn
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The greatest literature works in Finland = Made by Finns of Swedish origin (Swedish speakers)
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The delusional patriotism you have = Created by Swedes in order to provent Finland from being assimilated into Russia including the selfcreated image of yourself as warriors haha :P
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy No, Finns dont have much to be proud of - I guess thats why you are here, Trying to steal the history and achievements of a more succesfull people.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 The Kvens did not disappear anywhere. Of course they were assimilated to the mainstream populations of the Nordic countries.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Where did they go? They are completely gone!The genetics over the Swedish people today is by far dominated by I1,R1b and R1a - Only 7% have the Ugric N1c1 Most of these arrived after WW2
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy This is the time you in your madness should write that a fleet of Aliens arrived and picked them up.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Etymology
From Old Norse finnr (“a Finn, a Sami”), originally a medieval byname.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Search for"Elder futhark inscriptions"throughgoogle and look at the picture pointings out the places were elder futharkinscriptions have been found in NorthernEurope.This is 6th century.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Again, there is no support for your nonsense - none. Haven't you noticed that no historian has ever confused the Sami and Kvens like you :)
If you mean to spread false truth, the fact is that you are only succeeding to make yourself sound pathetic. Just about everyone in the world knows the difference between the Finns and the Sami - now and in the past.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy And you claim the Viking word Finnr = Sami to be nonsense! Oh what a SURPRISE! Not only have you rejected archaeological proofs against your madness but also Genetic evidence!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 You confuse the Lapps (Sami) and the Finnish people.
Tacitus in 97 AD describes the Sami like you do, but he talks about the Kvens (Sitones) separately (and never indeed have the Samis been called Kvens in medieval texts):
"Upon the Suiones, border the people Sitones; and, agreeing with them in all other things, differ from them in one, that here the sovereignty is exercised by a woman."
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Finnr, The Viking name for the people in Kvenland.
Finnr = Sami.
You bring up more texts based on rumours and not archaeological evidence! Give me Evidence in form of Findings!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Where is the large towns? Burrial mounds? Everything you expect to find in an organised Kingdom? Where is all this in the former wastelands of Kvenland (Norrland)??
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TechnoKathy "The area (Kvenland/Norrland) was sparsely populated by Sami, Kvens and different tribes/people related to the Finns."
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Search for "Archaeological density sweden" on Google, Look at the picture over Scandinavia.Compare "Kvenland/Norrland"With the Southern and Central part of Sweden - Swedish settled areas.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx No archaeological findings have been found in "kvenland" of importance, They had no large towns, No large Villages.. They were primitive nomads.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Pls use Google to see where the finest Merovingian swords are from: Finland and Germany.
The 30 meters long and 4 meters tall King's Tomb made of stones in Finland is the largest cairn in Northern Europe, dating to c. 500 BC - 1000 AD. According to the legend, a king was buried in that dome. Which one of the kings mentioned in the sagas, is unknown.
World's oldest fishing net, sleigh runner, skates are from Finland - most ancient skies too. Search for Antrea fishing net, 8300 BC.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx Raknehaugen In Norway is the largest mound in Scandinavia (with a diameter of 100 meters and 15 meter tall followed by the Uppsala Royal mounds from the vendel era and the Anundshög. The Finnish mound is in a baby size compared to these giants.
Worlds oldest fishing net e.t.c proves nothing, Only that they were a fishing people.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte101 The present-day Western Finland is rich with the ancient burial sites and large tombs built of stones.
This answer depends of what period we are comparing and what type of burial sites.
The Romerike site is actually 77 meters in diameter, not 100. It is said to have been a burial site of at least one Kven king.
In the 9th century, Kven King Harald Fairhair's father, Halfdan the Black, subdued the area by defeating and killing Sigtryg, the previous ruler, in battle.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Harald Fairhair was a Norwegian King NOT a fucking Sami king.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Sami are different people altogether. Ethnically, they are not Kven !
AnnaSvetlana1 2 weeks ago
@j The legendary royal lineage became to be known as the dynasty of Ynglings. It is the oldest known Scandinavian clan and dynasty, also referred to as the Fairhair dynasty.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Almost all the lineages sprung from Halfdan are shown to reconverge in the person of Harald Fairhair, the first king of all Norway.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 According to the medieval accounts, the royal Finnish-Kven stock descended from the Kven kings of Oppland, Norway, who had sprung from Nór's great-grandson Halfdan the Old.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Present day Western Finland is not even close to the rich findings you have in Uppland and other places around in Scandianvia.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy The South Western part of Finland was also heavily influenced by Swedes very early on in History.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy " It is said to have been a burial site of at least one Kven king."
By who? You? hahaha! Pathetic creature.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The Swedes called all the unexplored areas they hadnt colonised above them "Kvenland" = Sami land.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 You appear to suggest that the Kvens were Samis. Yet, all evidence - including all medieval saga information and all archaeological, linguistic and DNA evidence - fully discredit your claim.
To my knowledge, no known and reputable historian in the world has ever suggested that the Kvens were Samis. Who has ? May we have the book and page number, please.
The average Swede and Norwegian is a proud part descendant of an ancient Kven.
Norway and Sweden were established by the Kvens.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx Swedes and Norwegians is a North Germanic group of people. As i stated earlier, The N1c1 is in a miniority in Scandianvia. Only 7% of the Swedish population have it - And the majority of those 7% Swedes of finnish origin arrived during WW2. What is your evidence that Swedes and Norwegians would ne part descendant from these Nomad reindeer herders the Kvens?
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Nomad swere the Sveas - if anyone -, as pointed with sources. Notably, you haven't provided evidence yet showing that even in just one book of any historian Samis would have ever been called Kvens.
Why do you think there is this inability for you to provide a source. Did the kven boys call you names or show you a middle finger, as you seem to have devoted to call them Sami (not that there is anything bad about the Sami - quite the contrary, they are resilient people) ?
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago 2
@TechnoKathy You havent given me any sources at all - This is impossible. I have given you sources to look up. Still you deny everything, You deny the facts we have today, The archaeology,The genetic research. You are as i have stated several times a confused and a sad little person with a delusional mind. But i agree with one thing, That i disagree a 110% with everything you have claimed here, I am off to bed since the clock is 02:20 am - Good Night.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 You must be truthful to yourself. You must be able to look in the mirror and say:
"I, joonte, will not join any distorting of truth - anywhere - from here on. I am stopping."
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx watch?v=X4_r-IySNKM
Look at the documentary, Learn something - If you have any questions ask the person that put the video up. He is educated in Scandinavian history.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 - History studies ought to be based mainly on reading, instead of only writing and/or spreading nonsense and myths. Do not trust all that you encounter on YouTube.
The video provides only a partial truth. Hopefully the maker of it too will come in terms with the related details in more depth.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 3
@TheJeremyxxx You are the one spreading nonsense and Myths - Your base of information is the Norse sagas which is BASED on myths. You have no archaeological evidence that support your claims.. Your nothing else than a mentally disturbed Finn trying to steal the achievement of the Swedish and Norwegians ancestors.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Why would the Scandinavian authors have written all the stuff about the Kvens and how the Viking leaders descended from them? Why would they honor the Kvens that way?
The sagas largely match each other and are backed by archaeology too. Furthermore, in the Orkneyinga saga no geographical errors have been found. Why would the people have been lied about?
Based on the first Swedish chronicle, the Finns destroyed the Viking capitol Sigtuna. Did all Nordic historians lie?
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy They havent said that Viking kings originated from these nomad people, Its just you twisting the information you read to suit your view better.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Just 1 example: In Skáldskaparmál, Snorri Sturluson points that the Ynglings' origins are in the "Eastern Land" - i.e. "Österland" as Finland was officially called at the time.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx Eastern land as in todays Turkey- He calimed their origin to be in Asarland (Some historians points out Azersbadjan). Österlandet was a Swedish word for todays Finland "1400 - 1809".
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx You are twisting the words to fit your view, Nothing else. Finland wasnt known as Österlandet back then, Österlandet was the Swedish name for "Finland" during the Swedish era in Finland.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx watch?v=IapTtGgfVP8&feature=relmfu
Here you have a video that covers that part.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Sigtuna was attacked but it is uncetain where the pirates came from. The Swedes used this as an excuse to attack Kareleen, So the pirates most likely came from kareleen.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 You mean that the people who destroyed Sigtuna came from "Karelia". Weather those people were Kvens or Karelians, they were Finnish either way.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx They were either Karelians or Curonians certainly NOT kvens. The Swedes attacked the Crunonians on the island of Ösel aswell after that raid and the Karelians they invaded after.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 On Kemijoki River an ancient area named Sihtuuna is believed to have been named after Sigtuna. Vikings intruded there. Kvens are believed to have taken a revenge in Sigtuna.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Seriously,And how did the Kvens make it all the way down to Sigtuna? Did they ride down on their reindeers?No,The Kvens were primitives-It was either Karelians or Curonians that made it.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Norna-Gests þáttr:
"Sigurd Ring (Sigurðr) was not there, since he had to defend his land, Sweden (Svíþjóð), since Curonians (Kúrir) and Kvens (Kvænir) were raiding there."
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx So? What says that nomad people cant raid a more advanced people? The Vikings were not as advanced as Byzantians and the Swedes launched several attacks towards their great city.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Widsith, written in 'Old English' in c. 600 AD, discusses the Kvens and the Greeks in the same context. Note: Not Swedes. There was no such a thing as a Swedish civilization.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx The old Anglo-Saxon Poem Beowulf talks about Geats,Swedes and Danes and about a great battle on the lake of Vänern
watch?v=okB7OXtYk4w&feature=channel_video_title
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The Swedish (Suiones,Rus) civilisation is the one found in todays Uppland back then - Its heart was in Old Uppsala where the Royal mounds are located and here Uppsala temple was.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Widsith never visited the Kvens, The kvens have never been a great Kingdom in any sense! Nor did they have a civilisation. They were primitives!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Same way the Kvens raided Southern Sweden. That also answers to your question as to whether or not the Kvens were organized. You better begin reading the works of your authors.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The Kvens were not organised, They were a nomad people - They were a hunter/gathering people. They walked around - They didnt settle down to create towns and villages.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
Source ? You mix Kvens to Samis.
"Sigurd Ring (Sigurðr) was not there, since he had to defend his land, Sweden (Svíþjóð), since Curonians (Kúrir) and Kvens (Kvænir) were raiding there."
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheJeremyxxx Search for "Pre Migration Age Germanic" on google and look at the picture over Northern Europe.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The Vikings (Swedes,Norwegians) called the people living in Kvenland Finnr (Which meant Sami).
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Although the Samis have been called Fenni (Tacitus, 97 AD), Skridfinnar (skiing Finns) etc., they have never been called Kvens and they have always been described as a separate group from the Kvens, and very different.
Like you, Tacitus describes the Samis (Fenni) as hunters, etc., but Kvens differently:
"Upon the Suiones, border the people Sitones; and, agreeing with them in all other things, differ from them in one, that here the sovereignty is exercised by a woman."
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago 2
@TheJeremyxxx "Archaeological density Sweden"
Again i need to put this up - Search through google and look at the picture over Sweden.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Certainly there is a good amount of archaeological findings in the modern-day Area of Sweden too. The point is though that those areas in question were once a part of Kvenland.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Northern Sweden have few to none archaeological findings - Compare it with the Central and southern part of Sweden which were inhabitant by Swedes as early as the 6th century.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx There is no Archaeological findings after the Kvens that suggest them to have settled down in a longer time anywhere -What kind of religion did they have? No religious artifact findings.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Northern Sweden or as the Swedes before called "Kvenland" was a big wasteland which inhabitants was Samis/Kvens living on their surroundings (Fishing,Hunting) reindeer herders.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The greatest threat for the Scandinavians (Swedes,Norwegians and Danes) were eachother. They often raided eachothers towns and villages.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@ The Kvens travelled the same way as in the raid of Southern Sweden. In 750, the Norna-Gests þáttr:
"Sigurd Ring (Sigurðr) was not there, since he had to defend his land, Sweden (Svíþjóð), since Curonians (Kúrir) and Kvens (Kvænir) were raiding there."
Even the heroes of the "Swedes" were Kvens, as e.g. Grammaticus points out. Of the legendary Battle of Bråvalla (c. 750) - Swedes against the Geats - he writes:
''Now the bravest of the Swedes were these: Arwakki, Keklu-Karl ..."
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago 2
@joonte1010 All major "Swedish" military operations anywhere and any time were primarily led by Finnic commanders. On eastbound direction, even the armies were formed of mainly Finns.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Are you serious? When i thought your stupidity was to an end it reached a whole new level! haha.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx The Swedish invasions of todays Finland,Karelen and the surrounding areas were fought by Swedes and lead by Swedish commanders or even Kings from times to times.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 There really were never invasions of Finland by Swedes. The wars which you refer to took place between the Catholic west and the Orthodox east, largely Finns against Finns.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Wrong again, Since the Swedes aimed to expand their territories eastwards and to annex the "Finnish" lands into the Swedish realm- Which the Swedes did with great success.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Sweden grew to the lands of the Finnic peoples, with the combined efforts of the Finnic people, Sveas and Götas. The ones attacking the Karelians were "Sweden's" western Finns.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx hahaha, What else can i do than laugh at this stupidity? Finns were looked upon as subhumans by the Swedes back then -As primitive savages.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Early "Swedish" civilization particularly was on the Finnish side. Turku sent 7 times more students to Wittenberg than Uppsala. Finnish Jöns Budde translated Bible to Swedish.
Ekaterina777ism 2 weeks ago
@Ekaterina777ism Its because it was seen as a center of chatolism and as a potential place for people disloyal to the crown. This was in the 17th century Sweden not "Early" Swedish Kingdom.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@Ekaterina777ism And yes, It was and still is called Swedish Kingdom - Finland didnt excist back then but was a part of Sweden called Östlandet just like Småland,Närke and so on.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 Sweden was the name of the country created and gradually formed by the combined efforts of the Finnish people and the Getes and Sveas, established by Finnic Kven kings.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx It was the Svear,Geats and Guts that togheter formed Sweden. The first mentioning of the modern day Sweden came during the 13th century when Magnus Ladulås was King.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@j Finland for a time in Sweden was called Österland where the Yngling royal family originated, based on Norse sagas and a large amount of medieval texts. Finland was also called Finland.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx No, Wrong again - Finland was only called "Österlandet" by the Swedes When Finland was a part of Sweden. Finland didnt excist back then and where thus named Östlandet.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 That is what was said. "In Sweden" it was called Österlandet.
The term "Finland" however was used already even long before the Orkneyinga saga, quoted below:
"There was a king called Fornjót who ruled over Finland and Kvenland ..."
In Sweden only the area in question became referred to as "Österlandet". Similarly, in Sweden only sauna is called bastu, still today.
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy In Sweden, yes! But the sagas reffered Österlandet as something completely different - As the homeland for the gods (Asaland). Egil pointed out Turkland. Other historians Azersbadjan.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy More information from the sagas - Where is the evidence for this "King" in Finland? Evidence based on archaeological findings?
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Bastu is something the Swedes most likely took from the Finns, yes! What are you trying to prove with that?
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx As i stated in one of my previous comments,Ynglingaätten have their origin from asaland(Which certain historians have placed in Azersbadjan and Turkland as Egil claimed them to be from).
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte1010 In addition to pointing out that the Ynglins originated from the Eastern Land, In the Ynglinga Saga the Icelandic bishop and historian Snorri Sturluson indicates that there had been marriages between the Finnish and Swedish royal families.
These marriages are discussed in the sagas, and for instance Vanlande's winter abode (home) in Finland is brought up:
"Once he took up his winter abode in Finland with Snae the Old, and got his daughter Driva in marriage ...".
TechnoKathy 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy Eastern Land = Asaland, Certain historians points out Azersbadjan, Egil however pointed out Turkland.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TechnoKathy You keep brining up the same crap over and over again, But when i ask about evidence based on archaeological findings or Genetics you have none!
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx These people are belivied to have brought with them new technologies that gave birth to the Nordic Bronze age found in Sweden,Denmark - The finns were to backward.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx Search for "Nordic Bronze age" and look at "Pictures". Look at the map over Scandinavia, There you see where the Nordic Bronze was.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx "Finland" The Swedes first called a small area around todays Åbo - Later it was named "Finland proper" - Just as there was Tavastia and so on. The name the Swedes choosed to describe all these places was Östlandet,The land east of Sweden. Östlandet was but a province to Sweden just like Närke,Småland,Bohuslän,Skåne and so on is today.
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@Ekaterina777ism Even the selfcreated picture of yourself as strong warriors and shit like that was first created by finn of Swedish origin(FinnSwedes).
joonte1010 2 weeks ago
@joonte101 A Swede is not Finnish only through Kvenland. On the 16th and 17th centuries, a large amount of Finns began inhabiting Sweden. After WW2, a huge number of Finns moved to Sweden.
TheJeremyxxx 2 weeks ago
@TheJeremyxxx "The area (Kvenland/Norrland) was sparsely populated by Sami, Kvens and different tribes/people related to the Finns."
joonte1010 2 weeks ago