Commodore C16 8 Bit Home Computer System Review

[Kahanyah144]

i had one, shitty computer. could barely do anything wiht it except create some 20 line bullshit programs lol

[Theshadowsnose]

Hi Steve!

The 116 was available here in Germany and I think, only here. They were dirt cheap, when they were sold off. They cost as much as 10 games from the 1.99 range. The C16 cost as much as 10 games from the 2.99 range. Both bundled with a 1531 cassette recorder.

I got a C116 on a local flea market for 15 Euros with about 15 games on tape. I made a video about it and put it up here on YouTube some months ago.

If you can stand my terrible german accent, maybe you want to watch it...

[Bruce777999]

Was always my fav when it came to looks - love the dark casing.

[Redline748]

this thing pissed me off as I had a plu4 but 99% of software was dumbed down so it would run on this too, thing was I didnt want a plus4 in the 1st place but was bought for me, my mom thinking she got me a C64 for a bargain price. I got a C64 later on

[Rakborsten]

back in the days i had c64, then i sold it and bought a nes instead, but later on i changed the nes for a c64, but then i had a darn error with it, i could not play the majority of games, the game could load and start, but when you touched the joystick in the game, it errorfreezed with the screen all messed up. What was wrong?

[gollumondrugs]

Steve, watch this from 7.00 with audio transcribe on!

[SteveBenway]

@gollumondrugs Bwahahahaha!!! Thanks for drawing my attention to that. I laughed my head off :D

[DannyRaw]

Never seen one of these working. I have 4 (and two plus/4's). None of them work. TED chips knack up really easily.

[SteveBenway]

@DannyRaw I have a Plus 4, and true to form, the TED chip on that is dead.

[MMSZoli]

@DannyRaw Hi, they tend to die dute to two reasons:

TOp1: due to joysticks. You have the joy adaptor, and connect an advanced DB9 joystick with Autofire On: it directly linked to TED IC inputs, and quickly kills it.lack of protection in the circuitry.

Top2: overheat: some guys measured in plus/4 hotter TED, and by implementing a spartan alu chipset cooler, it became significantly cooler.

I have 3 working and 3 non working ones. So my rate it better, haha!

[davpea1]

this was my first computer, i loved it. played it to death and learned to program thanks to this machine. it was rubbish compared to the c64 but the programming language was far better and it came with a beginners guide to basic which was really good for the time, a couple of games, xzap, punchy, and something else.

[thepirategamerboy12]

My social studies teacher has a commodore c16 on display in the classroom.

[IrenicusFTW]

Have you read the book: Commodore (A company on the edge) by Brian Bagnall? Highly recommended, it is the whole history, highly detailed and talks about all the famous chips and people. First book ends when Tramiel is booted and second book is supposed to come next year.

[SteveBenway]

@IrenicusFTW I haven't, and haven't heard about it. Thanks for the info.

*logs onto Amazon* :D

[16plus4equals264]

The TED chip is also undervalued which often wasn't used to it's full potential. These days there are games like "Adventures In Time" which makes the TED sound like a SID.

The beauty of the lack of some alleged crucial hardware chips meant that the best programmers tended to concentrate more on gameplay, and also pushing the machine further than expected with new tricks.

It is a fantastic undervalued challenging machine with many great software titles, some far superior to the C64 versions.

[16plus4equals264]

The C16 sold pretty successfully in the UK. Granted that the non-standard hardware ports wasn't compatible, but you could still use a 1541 drive, and joystick adaptors to use standard joysticks were pretty common then and now.

The C16/+4 holds a vast array of games which really dried up by 1988, but that's 4 years which contradicts the alleged lack of success. Sure there were many bad games like with any system, but many classics too, quite a few bettering the C64 version. Check out Tom Thumb.

[drlove76]

Haha!! Good to see my first computer. It was a useless piece of shit compared to c64 and I still have no idea why Commodore had the c16 on the market at all since c64 was already there too. Yes, it was cheaper but no use, lol!

[GPatsos]

The C16 is what was left over from the 264 series, which resulted in the c116, c16 and the plus/4. All the mistakes which were made there were corrected with the successor, the Commodore 128. I personally love the plus/4.

[TJ07Temjin]

does it play crysis?

[SteveBenway]

@TJ07Temjin LOL! Only if you've eaten a lot of exotic mushrooms ;)

[wisteela]

But it did have a much better version of basic than the VIC/C64.

[SteveBenway]

@wisteela Yeah, it did. Useful for people who just wanted to write programs in basic, but not for much else :)

[wisteela]

@SteveBenway True. :)

[CBETelevisionNetwork]

Please.

[CBETelevisionNetwork]

Could you do a review of the zx81, i got one from ebay and would like to learn more.

[SteveBenway]

@CBETelevisionNetwork I'll be doing one at some point, but can't really say when.

[tinotrivino]

That was my real first computer :-D

looooooooooool really cool!

[telemetry9]

I liked my C16. Xzap is still one of my favourite games and over 100 levels. The sound is amazing in that game. It was a good machine with good hardware.

[roberthurstrius]

A bit harsh of a review, but easily understandable. C16 turned out to be a gap-filler (or land filler) machine until the arrival of C128 months later. In the US, the C16 was targeted as an "educational" computer to replace VIC 20, and it sold for only $99. The I/O incompatibility was a disaster, but making the Plus/4 was a bigger disaster. I owned C16 after 3-years with VIC 20, because of its (structured) BASIC, built-in machine language monitor, improved resolution & colors and nicer keyboard.

[gabbogabbo]

Its a shame really, that technology moves so fast that all these great older computers that still work fine to this day, have been all replaced. I guess there are good reasons why these computers are dinosaurs nowadays, but they had charactor. I have a Dell Dimension E520, upgraded the ram and just bought a flat screen but thats it, but its considered an oldie and its only 4 years old.

[MarkTheMorose]

It's more accurate to say the C16 was a cut-down Plus/4, since apart from the lack of built-in software (no real loss), and the smaller memory, they were the same, aside from the case as you illustrate. Joystick and datasette adapters were available to let you use Atari-type joysticks, and regular datasettes, too. This didn't do much for the hapless C16 or Plus/4 however, and I agree that they were both seen as jokes. I remember they were heavily discounted in shops at the end of their lives.

[SteveBenway]

@MarkTheMorose I take your point about the C16 being closer to a cut down Plus 4 than C64, as they are more or less the same machine... but that's not how it came to exist.

Both machines came from the same design concept, which was indeed a cut down, and hence cheaper C64.

[MarkTheMorose]

@SteveBenway Er, I think that needs clarifying: both the C16 and Plus/4 came from the design of the TED chip. This Text Editing Device - somewhat analagous to the Video Interface Chip that gave rise to the VIC-20 - also handled sound and I/O, meaning that a home computer based on TED was cheaper to produce. There was no 'cut down C64' aspect to it at all. Not in design philosophy, backwards compatibility, or intended place in the market; just a cheap home computer to undercut rivals' prices.

[SteveBenway]

@MarkTheMorose I certainly wouldn't argue with any of that, though I do believe that with the similar (though not identical) CPU, the idea was that it should be easy for C64 coders to get to grips with. Obviously this didn't turn out to be the case, as with the inferior sound/gfx, and poor sales, programmers didn't want to deal with the system at all.

[MarkTheMorose]

@SteveBenway There was certainly no 'need' for the machines at all, from the public perspective: plenty of life left in the C64, the Spectrum still going strong, and the CPC emerging into an already crowded 8-bit market. It looks to me as if C= had put so much money into the C116/C16/+4 that they thought they might as well try to sell some. I don't know if they'd bought out the Amiga company by this time, but there was nothing much else on their horizon, (the 128, maybe) and not much cash.

[SteveBenway]

@MarkTheMorose Yes, I agree entirely.

I think Trameil saw what was proving successful for other companies and decided he wanted a piece of that pie. In doing so, he completely ignored the fact that those companies now dominated that sector with established software libraries... something his new machine had no hope of competing with.

Commodore were good at such short sightedness though, like investing in PCs when they should've invested in developing the Amiga.

Small wonder they failed.

A pity.

[wrestletube1]

The C16 looks like C64 Black Edition.

Surely the music for some of the games on the Ted chip wasn't that bad? At least every commodore made computer had a custom sound chip, the joint best being the Paula and SID chips but the TED can't have been that bad with the good rep of the other customs they used?

[alecjahn]

I like the color scheme. Makes me want to color my C64 darker...

That was a nice, informative review. It's like you planned it out! Looking at the sidebar, it seems nobody else had the guts to do it. :P

[SteveBenway]

@alecjahn Planned? Moi? :O

Actually, I'd been running what I was gonna say through my head the night before while I was in bed. Predictably, by the time I came to do it, I'd forgotten much of what I wanted to say, so rambled on aimlessly, and then edited it all together afterwards :D

[Fawltykog]

Ted & Sid Chip, the Kray brothers of the computing scene!

[SteveBenway]

@Fawltykog Not forgetting their cousin Vic :D

[hotdaddyhuggy]

Sorry off topic but have you, or are you planning to add a CD32 to your collection Steve? For some reason I've always had a soft spot for the console and still play one to this day! Cheers.

[SteveBenway]

@hotdaddyhuggy I do plan on getting one eventually.

I'm just not adding anything to my collection at the moment due to lack of money and space.

I find the CD32 more of a curiosity and collectors item than anything. It being a cut down Amiga 1200 with a CD rom drive.... and me having a souped up 1200 already. I do like the look of them though.

If it'd been released a year earlier, things might have turned out very differently.

[atombat]

Great short opening. Some Demoscene stuff to look out for, Binary Zone do (or did) a compilation called "We are family" A collection some of the best demos the C16 had to offer. I think you can also find these on youtube?? Even though some of the best 8Bit demos I've seen have been for the Atari800xl/xe (Hides from the booing Commodore crowd) :P Have you finished your C16 games reviews? I hope not :)

[SteveBenway]

@atombat I still have a few more C16 vids to upload yet.

I've never really paid much attention to demo scenes, except on the Amiga, but it may be amusing to see what this machine was actually pushed into doing.

Y'know, as far as 8 bits go, I prefer Atari over Commodore myself. Then Commodore for 16 bit, and both got kinda demented after that and self destructed.

[lettersfromtheleft]

Score! I was hoping you'd do one of these.

Do you think you can do an 8-bit comparison video (really an opinion piece) where you show why you loved the 8-bit computers over the 8-bit consoles.

I mean, you've talked a little bit about your hatred of the NES a bit, and it's been developed in some of these console reviews, but I'd like to see something a bit more significant. So us statesiders can really see what we were missing out on.

Otherwise, solid review, I learned a lot.

[SteveBenway]

@lettersfromtheleft That's a *very* interesting idea.

Gimme some time to plan it out, but yes, I'll most definitely do something like that.

If I haven't done it say... a month from now, poke me, coz I'll have gotten sidetracked and forgotten.

[thebeerwolf]

I wrote my first BASIC programs on a Commodore 16. In that age it was called "Sigma Commodore" since a local reseller did partnership with Commodore in Mexico. This was the introductory level computer, and the Commodore 64 was the big boy.

Sigma released a disk drive, datasette, printer, joysticks, disks, casettes and carts for the C16. It's sad to see that there are nearly none info about collectors in my country nowadays. Those were great machines.

[SteveBenway]

@thebeerwolf You could turn that to your advantage. If you were to create a website on the subject, you'd have the whole market (in terms of search results) to yourself.

[thebeerwolf]

@SteveBenway Maybe I'll do it. After all I already own the market of Coor's The Silver Bullet Beerwolf Mascot. ;)

[SteveBenway]

@qix77 Sadly, the style of the 2068 is quite a bit different.

[ZXAmiga64]

great video steve, its great when someone remembers the stuff that the company's dont want to remember, ie like changing device connectors to strangle market place.

[SteveBenway]

@ZXAmiga64 *grins* It kinda had to be mentioned.

It probably matters even more today than it did back in the day, coz finding replacements is that much harder.

[jboypacman]

Steve great review buddy i knew little to nothing of this computer but now i know more thanks. : )

[SteveBenway]

@jboypacman Thanks. I'm glad you liked it :)

[SteveBenway]

@roundtr1p Oh well... can't please everyone.

I should mention though that there will be more system reviews in the future, as apart from people requesting them, I'm doing them to embed on my website.

There'll always be more gameplay vids than system ones though.

[DlNKYDANA]

Lol, nice review.

[SteveBenway]

@misterintellivision Glad to be of service :)

[SteveBenway]

@qix77 There is an American equivalent to the Spectrum called the Sinclair Timex 2068.

The hardware was largely the same, though minor differences mean they won't run UK Spectrum software. I don't know what games were actually released for it though.

You could probably run a UK Spectrum on a modern LCD TV without a standards converter, as they display most formats, but you would need some kind of power converter for the PSU.

[ArcadeMameMachine]

They could have put a 100 games with and it still wouldn't have sold very well, I don't know why they made it, nice review.

[SteveBenway]

@ArcadeMameMachine There was a certain logic to begin with, but it seemed to get lost.

Realistically though, the C16 could never compete with the Spectrum, which is what Tramiel was aiming it at, purely because the Speccy already had a massive catalogue of games.

[Rockythefishman]

Great review Steve, the C16 is just another example off Commodore not having a clue what they were doing. The tape deck looks good in black however the machine does not. You should take a look at the c65 (not a c64) there are some vids on youtube.

[SteveBenway]

@Rockythefishman  I took a loot at the C65... and then saw what they sell for... *faints* ;)

[Rockythefishman]

@SteveBenway Yep its not cheap, I saw one on ebay last year it ended around £6000 I think, its a machine I really want but not at that price. How about firing up that towered 1200 and doing some game plays on that :)

[SteveBenway]

@Rockythefishman I've done vids of all the good commercial games I have to the Amiga (they're in my playlists). Or at least, all the ones I have manuals/passwords for (I lost dozens of them when I moved 5 years ago).

I've found a couple of manuals online that I need to check out, but at the moment, the only other Amiga games I have immediate access to are PD stuff that was on coverdisks.

[AfroedNinja]

Excellent review!!!! Your a bad-ass Steve!!

[SteveBenway]

@AfroedNinja Thank you :)

[hewey999]

C16, hmmm great idea, who would want a C64 with its fab games cat and amazing music when u can get an orgasm from owning this chocolate box of a machine? lol

[SteveBenway]

@hewey999 Stuff the box, gimme the chocolates :P

[brewt1mer]

my parents played a joke on me back in the 80`s they told me that i was getting a c16 for christmas...but on the big day i got a wonderful c64 instead...im so glad i didnt get this computer...lets be honest it was crap..

[SteveBenway]

@brewt1mer I agree entirely. You definitely got a better present :)

[DLiberator78]

I could never understand why commodore released this and then the Plus 4. It was supposed to be built to compete with the Sinclair ZX Spectrum and Amstrad yet it was far inferior and in reality C64 was one of the main competitors to the ZX. The money they wasted on this stop gap computers they should have just gone straight to C128 and went for specs rather than price.

[SteveBenway]

@DLiberator78 I can kind of understand where Jack Tramiel was going with the 116, but with all those other models, it just got so screwed up.

The 128 totally made a mockery of the Plus 4... but that's Commodore all over. They'd have a good idea every now and then which made a stack load of money, and then go and blow it all by investing in stupid ideas.

[markvergeer]

It even sported it's own specialized version of the 1541 disk drive called the 1551 which used a strange parallel port cartridge thingy to connect to the system.

The floppy format was the same as the one used on the 1541/1540/1570 and 1571 (single side)

Okay I'll stop now. Sorry for flooding :P

[SteveBenway]

@markvergeer The tape and disk drives, as far as I can figure, were internally exactly the same as those from the C64... they just changed the interfaces so that they wouldn't be interchangeable, forcing people to buy new ones specifically for the C16 / Plus 4.

A total money grab.

Such a shame you sold your C116.

They had a very limited run and are quite rare now.

As for flooding... flood all you like, it's very informative :)

[markvergeer]

The bitmap graphic capabilities are very comparable to the C64 when it comes to resolution and number of colors available in 8x8 pixel square. But it does have a larger color palette available.

It doesn't have any hardware sprites like the C64 does have so games are much like ZX Spectrum charsets graphics. The VIC-20 didn't feature hardware sprites either.

I owned a C116 for a while but sold it :(

[markvergeer]

This system has a HUGE following in Hungary! There's quite a few very good demos and games out there for it!

I guess because it was cheap and available back in the day!

[markvergeer]

The C16's basic is quite similar to Simon's Basic found on cart for the C64 if I remember correctly.

The C16 system uses totally non-standard joysticks which is a crying shame. Otherwise it would be a great addition to any CBM collector's collection.

Jack Tamiel had way too many CBM systems out at the same time and with them not being compatible with one another - apart from the C128 and the C64. Love the look of the C16 though.

Thanks for the review! I would have been the 3rd one asking!

[TheBatchGuy]

SYSTEM REVIEW TIME WEEEHAAWW

[OldSchoolNYCGamer]

I'm really glad you did a review of this Steve, after all the gameplay videos you've done this is an amazing review of this computer. = )

[SteveBenway]

@OldSchoolNYCGamer Thanks :)

Over time I'll be doing reviews of all the systems in my collection, and as I'm about 2/3rds of the way through my games collection, you can probably expect to see system reviews more often.

[DocHackenbush]

I never got the idea of the C16 and I always looked down on it. Now I'm a bit impressed that it was faster and had more colours than my C64. :D Still it led to nothing...

[SteveBenway]

@DocHackenbush It was a case of some good ideas, but a step in the wrong direction. Pity. More memory probably would have made it a much better proposition.

[pcna]

I have it , I love the writing on the box IL POTENTE HOME COMPUTER DA 16K "the powerful 16k home computers" hehehe makes me smile :-)

[SteveBenway]

@pcna Haha... yes, that would make me laugh too :)

[silntdoogood]

I'd LOVE to have a commodore with a cassette tape drive! Even just the cassette drive!If I could get my hands on the drive, and interface it with an Arcadia Supercharger, it would be the Mecca of awesomeness. I'm trying to gather the rest of an IBM 5150, maybe they would be compatible...

The spectrum looks awesome, but I got my hands on a z88, and am rather disappointed in what all you can do with it. Don't get me wrong, it's a cool piece of machinery but I just don't know the language.

[SteveBenway]

@silntdoogood Commodore tape drives are common as muck in the UK. I'm guessing everyone used disk drives over there?

[silntdoogood]

@SteveBenway to my knowledge,no.The progression of effective data storage as I know it basically went: punch card -> 8inch floppy disk -> 5 inch -> 3inch -> flash drive.Of course there are different virtual sizes on the disks.IBM had plans of a tape drive,and produced systems compatible with said drive,giving devoted labeled ports to a cassette drive,but never actually made the drive it's self.I sometimes sit on the UK ebay, window shopping at stuff that is a dime a dozen there,almost drooling.

[SteveBenway]

@silntdoogood Paper tape came before punch cards.

I stood watching the paper tape running through the WWII Collosus computer at Station X, Bletchly Park in Milton Keynes a few months ago.

At full speed it runs at 60mph!

Disk drives on 8 bit machines were considered a luxury over here in the 80s, so only rich people had them. Consequently there was a lot less software available on disk. Finding drives or software now is tricky.

[silntdoogood]

@SteveBenway 60 is an impressive read speed, but at that speed, wouldn't one physical snag destroy almost the entire document? 

[SteveBenway]

@silntdoogood Yes, most definitely.

I saw an interview with Tommy Flowers, the engineer who designed the thing, and he said that at full speed, when the tape broke, the room was always filled with tape before they could switch the thing off. Consequently, they didn't run it at full speed very often.

I chuckled :)

[wrestletube1]

@SteveBenway I've been there also. I've actually talked about the Collosus in the roadtrip topics on here.

[DdlyHeadshot]

"If you want to have everything" - I presume that's why you bought one...

[SteveBenway]

@DdlyHeadshot Pretty much :)

[ImperialProductions]

Thanks for this, Steve. I think your conclusion was fair; I bought mine because I just wanted something different. Though I do disagree about the colour, I love the way the C16 looks! The Vic-20 and C64 looks ugly by comparison.

[SteveBenway]

@ImperialProductions I think I may be in the minority on the colour issue... but each to their own :)

[jango1968]

lol my speccy ran at 3.5mhz

[SteveBenway]

@jango1968 Clock speeds don't mean much when comparing different architecture, but the Z80 was certainly more advanced than the chip in the C64. Not sure if that'd hold true with the one in the C16. Doesn't matter really though. Speccy games stomp on C16 ones.

[vwestlife]

Although the C16 was intended to replace it, the VIC-20 wasn't immediately cancelled, and remained on the market until 1985 because it was still selling so well -- another reason why no one paid attention to the C16 when it was introduced.

[SteveBenway]

@vwestlife I'm not sure if that's the case in the UK, as the market was quite different and the Vic 20 wasn't such a hit here.

[vwestlife]

@SteveBenway That is probably true. The problem with the entire 264 series is that Commodore underestimated the success of the C64, and overestimated the threat of the MSX computers from Japan -- indeed, the Plus/4 has a very MSX-like case and keyboard. Commodore should've pulled the plug on the C16 and Plus/4 when Tramiel left, but I guess they had too much invested in it, and felt compelled to have new products on the market while the home computer industry was booming.

[RetroGamerVX]

Arrgh, a system review!!!...that feels so much better :o) I have mine sitting infront of the tv at the moment (running through some games) You should try voidrunner for the 16, amazing graphics on that :o) There are a lot of trashy games out there, but there are plenty of good ones too. Yes, that none standard port is a pain, I still need to get a joystick for it :o(

[markvergeer]

@RetroGamerVX LOL, you're loving its sleek charcoal exterior and the dull grey keys. The rainbow effect really stands out on it.

The joystick thing is what ruins it completely for me :(

[RetroGamerVX]

@markvergeer I actually quite like the colour scheme of the c16 :o)

[markvergeer]

@markvergeer Well me too actually I was just kidding. I just love the VIC-20 incarnations with all the different shades of the function keys, keyboard and case, likewise the C64 incarnations and this black C16. Still the keys are a bit grey and don't look appetizing.

My C64's keys look like chocolate and are yummy! LOL

[SteveBenway]

@RetroGamerVX I'm wondering if there's an adaptor that'll allow standard Atari type sticks to be used on these. Saying that, they'd probably be as rare as the C16 sticks anyway, so I guess the point is moot.

[RPKGameVids]

Looks hella cool though.

[SteveBenway]

@RPKGameVids Just shows how tastes differ :)

[LeShark75]

It was my best friend that got this device for Christmas 85, I got the Acorn Electron. We had a good couple of years out of both machines before moving on to the Sega Master System. Great times.

[SteveBenway]

@LeShark75 I rate the Electron way above this, but it was my first computer (that I could use), so I'm entirely biassed :)

[LeShark75]

@SteveBenway snap.

[PSI236]

Thats possibly the best part of the 64 - the SID. No wonder the SID sound is still popular to this day. Some interesting differences there between the 16 and 64 which I didnt know about, very good!

[SteveBenway]

@PSI236 Believe it or not, I don't really know what SID stuff sounds like. I've had a C64 for over 10 years, but never played it.

[Lorfarius]

It was my first ever computer in about 84/85!

[SteveBenway]

@Lorfarius Ah, you young whippersnappers don't know when you're born... when I were a lad.... wait... what was I saying? ;)

[Lorfarius]

@SteveBenway I'm just glad I'm not the only old man on here ;)

[a3HeadedMonkey]

Good review Steve, enjoyed it. Very informative.

[SteveBenway]

@a3HeadedMonkey Thank you :)

[mariosonic190]

Great review, Steve!

My C16 was one of the first machines I bought in my collection, and call me weird, but I think it's a fantastic little machine. I really love it's version of BASIC, and it has some real gems, like Fire Ant as you said, and also Tutti Frutti; great little game, kind of resembles Mr. Do. But that's just me I guess.

Please could you review the PET next? I've been after one of those for ages, and wanna know more about it. =)

[SteveBenway]

@mariosonic190 The fact that it was one of your first probably has a lot to do with why you like it :)

I'll do one of the PET sooner or later, but it won't be the next one.

I've already decided what the next three systems will be... just not in what order.

[davidhass3lh0ff]

very nice review and cool editing at the begining : D

[SteveBenway]

@davidhass3lh0ff Thanks :)

I'd have liked to have fitted in more of the interesting editing, but time was short, and there's only so many angles you can shoot a computer from... lol.