Ireland's Hated Hero - Eamon DeValera Part 6

[offhandmanor]

What is the date of the program, please, and who is the narrator? Thanks

[joekilgobinet]

@offhandmanor

The narrator is called Peter Capaldi and the programme is from1999.

[reaper060670]

I never liked De Valera..I think he was one of those inbred fucks from the arsehole of our great country. He had Michael Collins shot FFS! He was smart enuf 2 send Collins to London to negoitate the treaty when he knew there was never going to be a untied IRE..Some say Dev already knew there was only 23 counties on the table and bottled having top accept it so let Collins take the flak instead..I hate De Valera for Collins' murder..Collins was a better man indeed.Shuda lead IRE 4 yrs.Turncoat!!!

[DonMeaker]

@reaper060670 Being the offspring of a Spaniard, DeValera is certainly not inbred.

[DonegalRaymie201]

@reaper060670

Dev was Hypocrisy incarnate!

"De Valera started the cynical opposition by harping for decades on the partition issue as a smokescreen. He told a private session of the Dáil as early as August 1921, before the Treaty negotiations, that they would have to accept partition or they would be making the same mistake with Northern unionists as the English had made with the rest of us"

He still went on to bang on about it for the next 40 years, having conceded the need for it!

[Dricky9]

he could of been irelands greatist but he said no and is now hated

[Tonyo1221]

Interesting but it omits that fact that tens of thousands of Irish men went to Britain and signed up to the British army and fought in the war regardless. These men were and remain Irish heroes who paid the ultimate sacrafice for British, Irish and European freedom. And remember Sweden, Switzerland and others also remained neutral. Churchill was the archetect of his own problems in relation to not getting Ireland on board offically and his promises on Irish unity were not to be trusted.

[jratt2]

British Diplomat and politician Malcolm McDonald rightly came to the conclusion the Eire’s benevolent neutrality was of far more use to Britain than its participation in the war as an ally, a view shared by other ministers. He had become convinced by Dev arguments and the fact that the Irish people supported him.

Sadly Devs unpardonable condolences gaff overshadowed all that, and played into the hands of Roosavelt and Churchill who sought to discredit and punish Eire after the war.

[cozener1]

Idiot turned down the chance of a united Ireland. All because he was afraid to lose his majority. Bowed down to the corrupt and abusive Catholic Church, Man was a rat!

[litwriter100]

Dev sends Collins to take the fall for the treaty; ferments a civil war in which his rival is killed; then acts as if Collins had been right all along and comes down like a ton of bricks on his former Republican allies from the war. What a master politician! Has there ever been a more devious one in the free world?

[DonegalRaymie201]

@michaelbyrnes2012

Some interesting observations you make.

I do agree that Dev was so blinkered and embitterer that he would have risked our Nazi Occupation, rather that do anything that aided England, even if at the same time we would be aiding the North, Scotland, Wales etc and most of all, OURSELVES!

Nothing divided North from South MORE than Dev's stance in WW2, and the North never forgot it or forgave it! It's no wonder they are so committed to the UK: They stood together then, as now.

[paddycentered]

DeValera might have thought enough Irishmen had died for England. Neutrality saved Ireland from conscription. Expressing condolences on Hitler's death was diplomacy. Churchill sounded like a whiny petulant child. Whereas Eamon DeValera response to Churchill was thoughtful and dignified.

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

You're a sad Nazi apologist c*nt! ALL that kept us free from Nazi Occupation in WW2, was the Allies willingness to fight the feckers!

We hid behind the Allies' skirts, and never had the decency to help those that defended us! Dev was a traitorous prick, and that's just what the USA said about Eire's refusal to help the Allies!

Your beloved US LAMBASTED Eire for our refusal to help the Allies!

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 The USA supported Ireland's neutrality. The US told Churchill if

England invaded Ireland then the US would support Ireland.

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

You're lying through your teeth! Where? Where did FDR say any such thing? Go on, show me!

The US pilloried Dev for his Neutrality after you lot finally joined the War! US attitudes were to keep USA out of the War at all costs, only FDR really saw what a Global threat Fascism was and worked to prepare the ground for America's entry.

And do you know what Dev called the US troops mustered in Ulster, in preparation for D-Day??? "An army of occupation"!

Some friend to the US he was!

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 Why don't you check YouTube...it's well known Churchill floated the "invade Ireland again" past the USA and we said we'd support Ireland in that situation. Why do you think an egomaniac like Churchill did NOT invade? You're egomaniac... figure it out!

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

Who the fuck is we??? You're a clueless moron!

If the American Jews couldn't get the US into the War, while the Hitler was exterminating them in their millions, why the fuck would US do anything about the UK spilling back over the NI border?

The US army in Ulster, were called "An army of occupation"! by Dev, this spineless hero of yours, ya nonce!

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 Where's your proof? Did Truman give a speech about it like that whiny-fat-son-of-a-bitch-Winst­on-Churchill?

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

Eh? Are you feckin' retarded? WTF was US president during WW2 remind me brainless???

Since your hard of reading:

"You're lying through your teeth! Where? Where did FDR say any such thing? Go on, show me!"

[paddycentered]

@paddycentered By the time Truman won a US election as President, the fat-son-of-a-bitch-Churchill had shown open symtoms of senile dementia. Do you think any US President would openly criticize the FSOABC?

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 Japan had to surprise attack Pearl Harbor before the US would enter the war. After the WWII, the USA entered a period of salutary isolationism. No US President before or after World Wars I & II would have been foolhardy enough to antagonize the ethnic Irish in America. It took all FDR's political cunning to push through lend/lease. England was a nazi to poor Ireland. Let's get your history straight, England is the one most successful Nazi of all>

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

You again, you brainless Moron! Go and have fuckin' read at what your OWN American Ambassador, David Gray said of Eire's Neutrality! The opinion of the USA was SCATHING against what they saw as a Refusal to help in their own defence!

And I've told you before arsehole, you can ONLY make comparisons between like entities: "England" is a Nation. "Nazism" is an ideology! So are you trying to say in ur retarded way: England is like Germany or Conservatism is like Nazism???

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 England intentionally destabilized indigenous Irish & emigrated Protestants to that effect. The resulting strife is in Ireland is exactly as England knew or should have known would result from their policies, practices, occupation and manipulation of Protestant & Catholic populations in Ireland. Destabalization of Ireland was England's intent & England should be held legally liable for its remarkable & sad success. Y'all should have lunch with lawyers & jointly sue.

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

I can't really be arsed to BEGIN to educate you on Irish/British Isles history, as I would be starting from the lowest possible base with you: Namely what little you DO know of OUR history is invariably wrong!

"emigrated Protestants"?? That's can't be used as Direct object verb! You could say a "forced migration", or perhaps what WE actually say "Plantation of Prods"??

I recall I also had to educate you on the meaning of "Metaphor" and "simile" too! & You claim to be a teacher??

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 I'm sorry I haven't posted lately. Unlike you, my husband and I have full-time jobs teaching in public schools in the USA. During the school year, I don't have time to annoy you as entertaining as it can be. During the summer we travel. We make a lot of money. So, what do you do besides sputter?

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

Oh, don't be sorry! Freedom from your legendary ignorance & bile was refreshing!

If you are what passes for a "teacher" in American public schools, while I fear for your pupils education, it does explain a great deal towards the biblical ignorance of Americans generally.

I'm a technical author & college tutor when not wasting time on here with imbeciles like your good self!

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 You are the most fun of all! College tutor huh? I'll bet I make more money teaching second grade in the USA than you do tutoring college students or even teaching college students. Up the USA! Up the IRA! Up YOURS!

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

Don't you even know the IRA are long dead here??? Have been since 1997??

I think that should be "Second Grade Teaching" rather than teaching second grade LMAO! You're barely literate FFS!

And your last three Non-sentences, perfectly sum up the quality of your argument & profundity of your knowledge!

I've had pets with greater understanding of World affairs: You do your erm, "Nation" proud!

[paddycentered]

@paddycentered I just love it when DonegalRaymie201 gets angry. It is so fun! 

[DonegalRaymie201]

@paddycentered

Eh, that should be either: "It is so funny!" (adjective required) or "It is so MUCH fun!"

Teacher eh??? Would trust you to sit the right way up on the bog!

[paddycentered]

@DonegalRaymie201 So?

[jratt2]

@michaelbyrnes2012 You're right there. Things did not turn out as intended. It will be interesting to look back over the century when 2016 comes round. Glad you like the video.

[jratt2]

@michaelbyrnes2012 Thats quite a conspiracy there.  Its big flaw of course there that there isn't a shred of evidence to support it.

[goodfenian]

would some please if they get a chance kick the head of fintan o toole please what a prick

[bubblegumweed]

he was indeed a hero.

[cailleanmc]

De Valera expresing sympathy on the grounds of "form" would have had more believability had he done the same upon the death of President Roosevelt. He did not.

[Flipper79able]

Eamon had the chance of a lifetime to Unite Ireland and he fucked it up. Stupid. Stupid.

[TheSoulboy90]

@Flipper79able

He never wanted it. He wanted to lay claim to the aspiration to a United Ireland, but he never actually wanted the million Northern Protestants that came with it! He wanted to build a Catholic Eire, so where did those Protestants fit in with that?

[Flipper79able]

@TheSoulboy90 He should have wanted a united Ireland with the Prodestants. The leaders of the Unionists were willing to do it. The I.R.A want a united Ireland. This should not be news to you if you know anything about Sinn Fein.

[TheSoulboy90]

@Flipper79able

What on Earth does Dev have to do with Sinn Fein? He founded Fianna Fail, and pretty ruthlessly persecuted the IRA in Eire after Partition! I don't have a clue what you're talking about here.

And BTW, they are "Protestants"! Named after Luther's "Protest" against corruption in the Catholic church in the 16th Century.

[Flipper79able]

@TheSoulboy90 Sinn Fein is the political wing of the I.R.A. Dev used to be in the I.R.A. Are you totally clueless?

[TheSoulboy90]

@Flipper79able

Trust me, you couldn't be more wrong! You need to watch parts 1 to 5 of this same documentary, to grasp the scale of your ignorance here! Let Martin McGuiness himself put you right about Dev and his dealings with the IRA. You do know who Mr. McGuiness is right?

[Flipper79able]

@TheSoulboy90 The IRA is directly descended from the Irish Volunteers who De Valera was apart of. The same Irish Volunteers that changed their name a year or two after De Valera left. If you want to get hung up on specifics that have nothing to do with the actual POINT were originally talking about be my guest. The point is you said he never wanted to Unite the country because he didn't want the Prods in the North and that is where he fucked up because the tricolor flag is supposed to unite.

[TheSoulboy90]

@Flipper79able

I agree with you about the Tricolour. It is supposed to represent the Green of the Catholic/ Native Irish, the Orange of the Protestant/ Ulster-Scots, and White for peace between the two! But sadly, far too many Republicans have forgotten it's meaning, don't you agree?

As for Dev, can you offer an explanation for his turning down Churchill's offer? Do you think I'm wrong about his not really wanting nearly a million Prods in Catholic Eire?

[Flipper79able]

@TheSoulboy90 Maybe he didn't want a million prods in the Free State or the Republic. I was just saying that is stupid. Wolfe Tone was a prod, I believe in the Tricolor and think he should have payed closer attention to it's meaning.

[TheSoulboy90]

@Flipper79able

I can't make up my mind about Dev. For all his talk about unification, when the chance came he  rejected it; didn't even take the offer to the Dail!

And everything else he did: granting the RC church special protection in the constitution, giving the Church so much say in Education & social services etc, only distanced Eire from the North! He gave Protestants plenty grounds for distrust of his government, making Unity less & less likely!

[Flipper79able]

@TheSoulboy90 That's why I don't care for Dev. I think he made a lot of bad decisions. Like how he didn't think it was honorable or his army wouldn't get taken seriously if the Fenians fought guerrilla warfare. The Americans did it in the revolutionary war. His men were slaughtered cause he took that stance. That should almost be treason.

[TheSoulboy90]

@Flipper79able

I could forgive dev his miltary mistakes because he had no training as a soldier. Collins was far more miltary minded, but the man with the most actual experience in soldiering was James Connolly, the Scotsman. But he was one of the executed martyrs!

It's his political decisions that I hold him to task for. So much that he did totally alienated the North, cosying up with the RC Church, then turning down the best chance at Unity in WW2. How sincere was he?

[Flipper79able]

@TheSoulboy90 We are on the same page.

[thefreewheelingirl]

its not a cotholic/prodestant thing...its ireland vs. imperialist england..just to let the fellows arguing in the comments below know!!i think dev could'nt become an ally with britian because 1916 and the war of independance were too fresh...ireland was barely 20 years old at this time...that generation lived through british rule.

[TheSoulboy90]

@thefreewheelingirl

But it became a Catholic/ Protestant thing, because the Protestant North WAS at war! Belfast was a Luftwaffe prime target, just like the mainland industrial cities; so part of the Island of Ireland was facing up to the Nazi menace! This division became one of the most devisive fallouts from the War. One that the Unionists have never forgotten. And 1 that Dev made even deeper with his condolances for Hitler fiasco!

[Jane1620]

Is there a part 7?

[joekilgobinet]

No That's It I'm Afraid

[Jane1620]

Ok. Thank you for letting me know.

[wellchoobe]

Keep in mind de Valera had a soft spot for the Germans. They provided armory for them during WWI. The Germans were at war with our enemy in both wars.

However it is noted that Hitler indeed was intending on invading Ireland. So De Valera was blinded.

[TheSoulboy90]

@wellchoobe

Soft spot for the Germans yes! But the Nazis? Hitler?

Hitler would have had to invade Eire if he conquered Britain, he couldn't leave Eire free as a possible base for the US to use. Eire like Britain was too strategically important! Without them, how could the Allies ever have mounted their D-Day, or any reconquest of Europe?

Hitler was mad & very bad, but not an idiot! He knew the strategic value of Eire. Not sure Dev ever did. Don't think he ever saw the big picture in WW2!

[ocean3da]

Irish people were resentful, some would help the Germans. My view is Ireland should of helped no one. Entangling alliances with none, to borrow a quote from Thomas Jefferson.

[lsnows]

I've mentioned this before, I'll mention it again: Dev should have remained nominally 'neutral' but leased port facilities and air bases in the West of Eire to the US Navy. From there, the USN could more easily escort convoys and patrol the North Atlantic. That would create lots of jobs for Irishmen, not to mention it would swell Dev's treasury, and when the war eneded, what improvements on the ports would be made, would belong to Eire! So long as the cheques cleared, who would care?

[jimmy27paul]

What was with the ooooo so english acent of De Veleras son...

[MrMarcusirish]

As a Scouser of Irish blood, De Valera represented everything that was backward in Irish relations both internally and externally, mythical, Gaelic, Finn Mc'Cool boggers attached to the land like termites around fresh dung and perceived outwardly as peasant, ill educated and Papal driven headcases beyond its lands-De Valera made sure Ireland was shaped to his design, a small man, with a small outlook, what Ireland needed was a visionary, what it got was a Pederast, the man took Ireland back!

[mufcstokesy]

MrMarcusirish u hit the nail square on the head. Dev was too much of a romantic! his comely maidens remark showed it all

[antokane]

If he'd accepted, he'd have been going against what broke him and Collins up in the first place, and would have therefore been a hypocrite. I would have respected if he'd done the deal if he hadn't already cost Collins his life.

[Bosco239]

I fucking hate you DeValera!

From a Tyrone man.

[TheSoulboy90]

I don't think using this to stay out of the War (against Nazism for God's sake?), was a valid excuse!

Whatever you think of the Brits, i can't believe many irish wanted Hitler to triumph!

And the fact that the Welsh, Northern Irish and Scots died in their 1,000s fighting Nazism leaves a taste of shite with me! We should have stood beside our cousins, shoulder to shoulder against Hitler! (Like many Irish did as Brit soldiers!)

From a Donegal man!

[nallyterrace]

Ireland aided the Allies whenever they could.

But why would the people of Ireland have trusted the country that had kept it downtrodden for centuries? It's all well and good looking back now.....but historical contextcannot be ignored.

[TheSoulboy90]

Nallyterrace,

I think you're getting this arse end up! I don't suggest for a second that ireland should have joined Britain out of some sense of loyalty! Ireland should have joined in the fight because of what the Allies were fighting AGAINST!

The Third Reich were engaged in attempted genocide! How can one be "neutral" there? What's that saying: "All that is required for Evil to triumph, is that Good men do nothing"?

Well, we seemed quite happy to do nothing! (cont)

[TheSoulboy90]

(cont) Not counting those brave Irishmen, who did fight against Hitler, even if they had to do so wearing the uniform of another Nation!

Are you seriously suggesting that Ireland's neutrality, in the face of the Holocaust and greatest Evil the World has known, should be viewed as a source of Irish pride now?

If so, then what of the many thousands of Irish who joined the Brits and died fighting Hitler? Were they wrong too?

Or the Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders etc?

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

How could Ireland have joined in arms together with a country that had tried to commit genocide on her for centuries?

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

Then why did 60,000 odd Irishmen do exactly that?

By fighting against the Nazi menace, those Irishmen were fighting for their own freedom from Fascist tyranny, as well as helping Britain!

The simple truth is, Eire's Neutrality was a luxury afforded Dev' by the willingness of other nations to fight the Nazis! They paid the price for our freedom; the Russians in particular suffered horrendously while we carp on about ancient historical injustices. Ask Europe's Jews about Genocide!

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

You seem to think that the Nazis were a threat to Ireland. Many Irishmen in those days would have disagreed. In fact the Germans helped the Irish to defend themselves against British oppression.

Ask the Irish during the 'Great Famine' about genocide. The Brits were so disappointed that only a million Irishmen starved to death. The Brits would do it again today if they had the chance. Don't be fooled.

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

Nazism was a threat to all Europe, if not the entire World! Something Dev never grasped, and apparently nor do you!

And i see you cannot answer the first question I posed: Why did 60,000 odd Irishmen fight with the Brits? And how many fought with the Nazis? A deluded handful is all, thank God!

And there is no comparison between An Gorta Mor and the Holocaust. None! The Famine was a tragic starvation/emigration of Ireland's poorest. The Holocaust was industrialized slaughter!

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

Thousands of Irishmen fought for the Brits. As thousands of irishmen have joined the ranks of the British army for centuries. When people are poor and unemployed soldiering is sometimes the only alternative. In any case the Irish nation on the whole did not sympatize with the Brits. The Irish soldiers never got a warm welcoming back or were otherwise celebrated.

An Gorta Mor was a logical conclusion of consistent British policies to drive the Irish into destitution.

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

What kind of an idiot signs up as a soldier for a paultry pay packet in wartime? Plus, Britain had a Chronic labour shortage during the war, that women & girls had to fill!

100,000s of Irish went there to work during WW2.

That those who returned from fighting Hitler were not celebrated as heroes for their bravery against Fascism, is to our eternal shame! And largely, down to embittered bigots like you, who cannot see past your cherished hatred of England, and admit they did good!

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

It wasn't Fascism that oppressed the Irish people. It was British Democracy that led to the starvation of Irishmen.

I'm not an embittered bigot. My conclusion that the Nazis were no worse than the British are founded on facts and reason. British autrocities simply go less reported which leads to warped worldviews like your own.

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

You are seriously deluded! The British have plenty shameful history to recall sure. And in fairness Irish, Scots & Welsh soldiers played their parts in it! (As well as many wealthy Irish who profitted from that Empire.)

But even on their worst day, the British were far better than the Nazis on their best!

You so obviously no NOTHING of the history of the Third Reich. Just 1 question for you:

Who were the first victims of Himmler's Gas Chambers?

Go on, answer that one!

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

You should read the following article:

'The Turks haven't learned the British way of denying past atrocities.'

If you copy paste the above title on google you'll find it immediately.

Why are you asking me who were the first victims of Himmler's Gas Chambers?

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

"Why are you asking me who were the first victims of Himmler's Gas Chambers?"

Because you claim that the Brits were worse than the Nazis! So you must be completely versed with the attrocities of the Third Reich then, to make such a claim?

So tell us oh great sage: Who were Himmler's first victims?

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

I don't know who the very first victims of Himmler were, you tell me. Have you read the article I recommended you to read?

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

Germans! Specifically, the disabled, the mentally ill or impaired Germans, who were simply and clinically "culled" (God forgive the word, but I can't think how else to express it!), on Himmler/Hitler's orders. Because they were a burden to the Reich, and could be no part of the Nazis eugenic plan for an Aryan Uber Race!

I thought you knew all about the Nazis? How could you not know about this? Where did the Brits do anything, in anyway comparable to this, to their own?

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

I doubt whether you are an Irishman at all as you don't seem to know or care at all about the crimes the British committed on the Irish. You are interested though in German crimes.

You don't seem to care about the info I give you at all. Did you know that the slave trade in the 17th century to America consisted of more whites than blacks and that the majority of those whites were Irishmen sold as slaves by the British?

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

Yeah I really care about the opinion of a Hitler apologist and Holocaust denier! Ain't that right Dutch boy?

And as to the slave trade, utter bull! WE never made slaves of whites, we reserved that indignity for innocent black folk.

And actually, the vast majority of Slave Masters in the Carribean/Southern States were Irish & Scots! That's why so many Black folk have Gaelic surnames; They took their former master's names when freed!

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

I'm not a Hitler apologist and I don't deny the Holocaust. I think the Nazis were genocidal maniacs. And it is a good and natural thing that they were defeated. And it is a good thing it damaged the British Empire as well.

The majority of slaves send to America in the 17th century were white. Most of them being Catholic Irishmen. As for the slave traders many were indeed Irish. Protestant Irish that is.

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

God your pathetic attempts at an argument are all over the place, quite literally! The debate here was about WW2,Irish neutrality, its' rights or wrongs and perhaps it's reavaluation in light of what we now know.

And you prattle on about 17th Century Slave Trade? You're irrelevant as well as ill-informed! You entered the debate stating "Nazis were bad, the British were worse!" You won't find many in Ireland to agree with that, if you lived here, you'd know! That's why we fought!

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

And you should really find some better sources! Then you might know that Britain didn't even exist in the 17th Century idiot!

And I wouldn't bring in the sectarian business if I were you Dutch boy? The "Sons of William" really look up to your country and it's contribution to Irish History! Jaisus, they never stop going on about Oul' Billy! They even formed a fan club for him, and insist on Marching in commeration every 12th of July, bedecked in the Orange no less!

Ta for that..

[93rardo]

@TheSoulboy90

Are you protestant yourself? That would explain your disinterest for the crimes committed against Irish catholics.

[TheSoulboy90]

@93rardo

And you can't even redeem yourself with a sense of irony! You know nothing of Irish history, it's subtlety and complexities elude you totally. Never is it simply black & white!

A few prejudiced & biased websites is no substitute for a genuine education. You need to read, and read widely before you come on here spouting your purile, innane drivel! Perhaps you should also familiarize yourself with your own Nation's history too, before spouting on anothers!

Again, the end!

[MrMarcusirish]

Nallyterrace

We could all hold grudges for the murky and political misgivings and treatment that England meted out to Eire over the centuries, I'm married to a Brazilian and believe me they and their South American commrades have every reason to hate both Spain and Portugal for the conquest of there land, the idea is to reconcile and move on, that's all we can do and believe me as a Scouser I have no feeling towards the UK whatsoever for their treatment of my Mother's land, WW2 was an exception

[nallyterrace]

I have absolutely no idea why that comment is being directed at me. Never once in any argument on Irish issues have I suggested we should hold any grudge against the British and I make this very clear on my homepage. I would regret if anything I have said on this particular page has led you to believe that I am some sort of Brit-basher. However, I cannot bring myself to agree that Ireland should have flung herself into WWII. And I have already detailed my reasons.

[ocean3da]

What done is done.