The best mountaineer in the World

[abdalazar]

Messner is not only one of the best climbers in the world but a very inspiring one too.

[alteregoash]

2/2 So they say Messner and say that's the best climber. Messner, like Beethoven, is an elegant and innovative man that shifted through great knowledge and experience to organize involved pieces reflective of foresight. The point: Who honestly expects to settle a debate about whether working class determination or upper class elegance is better than the other? It's apples and oranges. Messner had his style and that makes him better than imitators but only different among other great climbers.

[alteregoash]

1/2: Climbing is like most arts, it depends on how you judge it. Let's do an analog to music. If someone said the best climber was Warren Harding, this might be akin to saying the best was punk music. It's a working class, trashy, powerhouse sound that shows no demonstration of some refined skill, scrambling its way to goals on a fuel of liquor, stove legs and stupid determination. Someone might point out that Harding had no mixed climbing experience and depended heavily on aids. (cont)

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@MrGhostSpecial I like how you ignore my answer and get all butt hurt... ahah what a kid

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@MrGhostSpecial Maybe if you paid attention you would realize that I made the comment before he said english wasn't his language... you're an idiot kid.

[aqajahua]

Oh, sorry, one of the commets were in swedish.

[chriswz261]

Messner is probably the best climber ever. 14 over 8000 meters, that's good! I'm from Colorado and have been climbing for 7 years. Trust me if you haven't climbed then you don't know how difficult it really can be. This guy is the best of the best of the best for sure!

[aqajahua]

Messner may be the most famous, but I consider Kukuczka the greatest.

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@aqajahua What about the rock climbers in yosemite? I'd love to see these guys solo half dome, or some of the very exposed routes. It depends on what you're talking about.

As far as mountaineering, what about ulei steck, the fastest alpine climber on earth... be more specific.

[aqajahua]

@BeepimajeepBeep yep.. kukuczka or messner are in a different category (careful: need for human to categorize!) than the climbers you brought up. that is why it is useless to compare them.

i guess that himalayas need a bit more mature climbing scills than technical routes in yosemite. its a bit different environment, however.

on the other hand; im just a sofa climber. please do not take me seriously within this issue (category).

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@aqajahua more mature climbing skills? you are the biggest idiot I have ever met. scills?

First off, everest takes endurance and aclimation, and some snow mountaineering skills.

Extremely technical rock routes take extreme upper body strength and balance.

if you are talking about everest, then ill compare a 5.14 grade rock climb. way different.

[aqajahua]

@BeepimajeepBeep dear friend, in case im the most dumbest person you have ever met in your life please go and live a bit more :-)

i was talking about himalayas - not the everest. we both know that even guys with the age of 70 can climb up to the that mountain of the highest point on earth.

i suggest you to take a book about climbing in the himalayas, to learn a bit, and to get a different perspective. by no means I have the urge to downhill your ideas blossoming technical ecstacies.

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@aqajahua Your grammar is horrible, don't try to say big words to impress me.

Find a route in the himlayas that has been climbed at 5.13 grade, and i'll stfu.

[aqajahua]

@BeepimajeepBeep please blaim my grammar. et sinä raukkaparka ymmärrä kuitenkaan mitä kirjoitan äidinkielelläni (in finnish) du hast kein ahnung was ich hier schreiben (german); rigtigt, jag vet inte varför är jag här?. so, impress me you illletare piece of shit :-)

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@aqajahua blaim? illetare? you can barely speak english idiot. I don't give a shit what other languages you speak, because english is the most important language in the world. You use google translator? nice

[OlBluesMan90]

@BeepimajeepBeep you're ignorant for thinking english is the most important language in the world.. there wouldn't be an english language if it wasn't for german, italian, french and spanish.. oh and latin.. that is presumptuous of you and rather provincial.. everything is relative and everyone has their own opinions.. things should be taken with a grain of salt and not personally

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@OlBluesMan90 English is probably the most spoken language, and most commonly used in some of the biggest applications.

[OlBluesMan90]

@BeepimajeepBeep First, Mandarin is the most spoken language in the world. Secondly, It may be the common language used to communicate on an international level but it doesn't give it any sort of superiority over any of the other languages. It simply has to do with how big of an empire the English built back in their hey day. There's a reason behind the saying, "The sun never sets on the British empire."

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@OlBluesMan90 obviously mandarin is, because there are so many asians in a 3world country who are poverty stricken. You said everyone has their own opinions... then you berate my opinion? you must be a liberal OWS protestor. So hippocritical.

[OlBluesMan90]

@BeepimajeepBeep no not really. i haven't once said you were wrong, i just simply think you have a narrow minded approach when it comes to trying to talk to someone on here. i don't think you should be trying to bash someone who has weak english skills because they aren't from an english speaking country. it just makes you look like an asshole. and an OWS protestor? no i'm not. i just like thinking for myself and if that makes me an undesirable, thats fine. my point is to just chill out

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@OlBluesMan90 narrow minded? who are you to decide what is "narrow minded"

I have my own opinions, and you have yours. Notice how I never insulted you directly... however you are sitting there all butt hurt insulting me, that's because, I dont care what you think.

[OlBluesMan90]

@BeepimajeepBeep cool. you can have the last word. good for you.

[BeepimajeepBeep]

@OlBluesMan90 thanks

[aqajahua]

Well.. let us say that my grammar is horrible. Now; rest in peace. All the best for you. Jussi

[OlBluesMan90]

@aqajahua why compare at all.. just take them as they are.. comparisons are odious

[aqajahua]

@OlBluesMan90 yeah, you definitely have a point. human being seems to have a need to categorize..

[TheInGenCO]

yes there are many good climbers, but messner was the first with all 14 8000 peaks and all in alpine style without oxygen! When you see what records are done today, it is much easier to repeat something! So i give him the credit to be the most influencial climber that ever existed!

[sciaeppe]

Messner è uno di quelli che fanno sognare... anche la bionda, però!!

[Entropy56]

What's with the gay musuc?

[louietheiceaxe]

Not sure why there needs to be any arguments about who is the best. There are many climbers who set and break records and many different innovations as a result. Ed Viesturs is certainly in the class of Messner and though Kukuczka was also great, my opinion is that the best climbers are the ones who make it back. A successful climb is a two way trip. 

[wundi]

@louietheiceaxe "the best climbers are the ones who make it back." You're wrong. At this level, each climber has near-death situations. Some have the luck all along, and some run out of it at some point. Kukuczka's rope broke and he died, Messner fell into a crevasse on Everest and he survived because it wasn't 5 meters deeper or 10 degrees steeper. Is that makes him better?

[louietheiceaxe]

@wundi Let's say then that the most "successful" climbers are the ones who make it back. Having a long career in the mountains is certainly or at least should be the goal - not to die trying. Those like Ed Viesturs are testimony to both success and skill. Are there better mountaineers than Messner? not sure, but he is absolutely successful because he is still around to tell the stories!

[SPELY123]

watch?v=uyiV782f4LA

take a look :D

[acr08807]

Messner? The best explorer the world has ever known? That's pretty funny.

[Uthulu187]

@acr08807 Eh well he is ?

[acr08807]

@Uthulu187 He was the best mountaineer. He was no Columbus, though.

[traverpen]

@acr08807

You say he was no Columbus like it's a bad thing.

[acr08807]

@traverpen What was wrong with Columbus?

[traverpen]

@acr08807 Nothing, I get a paid holiday ;) But not everyone sees it that way, just head over to a reservation and see what the prevailing view on Columbus is. Unless your too afraid to go to a reservation, because of the great treatment that Native Americans have received since Columbus arrived.

[acr08807]

@traverpen Columbus didn't do anything to Native Americans that they weren't already doing to each other long before he invaded.

[pikeflyfisherman]

@traverpen More to the point, Columbus did not find the American Mainland ! He discovered the West Indies, It was an Italian man who discovered the American Mainland.

[traverpen]

@pikeflyfisherman Columbus and the holiday that honors him is still a symbol that many native americans still despise. A holiday that we as Americans celebrate, marks the start of a transition from the old way of life to a diminshed way of life on reservations.

[cjbl84]

what's the music @ 2:10?

[NCsmallJUNIOR]

''a man went up to the top of Everest without any oxygen, he came back down half dead. they asked him why did you go up there to die? he said he didn't, he went up there to live'' - Roland Tembo, The Lost World

[grilled]

@KowalskyLeon don't get so upset in the discussions, it's only the internet. Both deserve a lot of respect.

We are all mountain loving people here, there's no need to fight.

[najamkke]

Hermann Buhl is the best climber ever...

[masterbutan]

My next challenge is to bring Susanne at the top of Everest and do her without supplementary oxygen :)

[ironbuli]

Jerzy Kuczka and Krzysztof Wielicki The best 

[ironmanboy]

@ironbuli Yes they are great, but Messner did it all first. 

[ironbuli]

@ironmanboy Messner All 14 in 16 years.

Mount Everest (First solo) K2, Kangchenjunga, Lhotse, Makalu, Cho Oyu, Dhaulagiri, Manaslu, Nanga Parbat (First solo), Annapurna, Gasherbrum I (alpine style) and Gasherbrum II at one time without returning to basecamp, Broad Peak, Shisha Pangma.

[ironbuli]

@ironmanboy Kukuczka All 14 in 9 years.

Mount Everest (New route), K2 (Alpine style New route), Kangchenjunga (First winter), Lhotse (Alpine style), Makalu ( Alpine style Solo New route), Cho Oyu (Winter New route), Dhaulagiri (First winter), Manaslu (Alpine style New route), Nanga Parbat (New route), Annapurna (First Winter), Gasherbrum I (Alpine style New Route), Gasherbrum II (Alpine style New route), Broad Peak (New route Alpine style), Shisha Pangma (Alpine style New route).

[hauser2808]

@ironbuli I thought he dissappeared on Lhotse on his last of the 8000ers?

[OlBluesMan90]

@ironbuli although he didnt do everest without oxygen

[ironbuli]

@ironmanboy Wielicki All 14 in 16 years.

Mount Everest (First winter) K2, Kangchenjunga (First winter), Lhotse (First winter Solo), Makalu (Alpine style), Cho Oyu, Dhaulagiri (New Route Solo), Manaslu (New Route), Nanga Parbat (Solo), Annapurna, Gasherbrum I (Alpine Style), Gasherbrum II (Solo), Broad Peak (in 21,5 hours), Shisha Pangma (New Route Solo).



[TheInGenCO]

@ironbuli who the fuck are these guys you are talking about, they cant be better than messner, because he has done it the first!!! Its different to repeat something than to do it first fuckhead!!!

[ironbuli]

@TheInGenCO you do not know who is Kukuczka and Wielicki?.Maybe you do not know the history of mountain climbing or you're stupid fuckhead!!!. “For the time he definetely was!!!” I think that time of their struggle was parallell….

“And at that time noone else would have done it better!” And at that time Kukuczka was 4 times on the summits in winter…

[ironbuli]

@TheInGenCO Messner 1970-1986 all 14 peaks in 16 years, 6 new route.

Kukuczka 1979-1987 all 14 peaks in 9 years, 9 new route and 4 winter ascent.

Who has better style, who had a more difficult route to the summits, who won the peaks in winter?.

Messner was first on all 14 summits but he is not the best mountaineer in the World ...

[KowalskyLeon]

@TheInGenCO when Kukuczka died, you still pissed in your pants, you shithead, that's why you dont know JERZY KUKUCZKA - best climber of all times. yes, Kukuczka completed all 8000er one year after Messner, but he did it within 8 years - Messner needed 17 years, had much more money and people, who often prepared for him camps and so on. Jerzy established on 8000er ten new routes and climbed four summits in winter. Between profesional climbers considered as the best himalaist of all times!!!

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon oh yeah, one more difference: Messner didn't use oxygen bottles, Jerzy did; that's a fact go check it out on wikipedia

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel You're right, I knew it, but why you did not write, that Jerzy used oxygen only once on 8000er - while climbing Mount Everest? Despite of this fact, considering the way he climbed all the summits above 8000 m, his equipment and budget, and compering it with Messner's, I still think, Kukuczka's achievements in Himalaya and Kakarkorum were far better than Messner's.

[KowalskyLeon]

Karakorum of course, sorry for mistyping..

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon let's say they're both gods; look, Messner isn't as rich as you think...that came later and for the fact that he is the pioneer and did many mountains solo, you can't put Jerzy over him; they R similar

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon and don't forget that Messner wasn't solely a high altitude climber, he did dozens of new routes and firsts in the alps as well, he also climbed in caves and despite the fact that he lost a couple of toes, he managed to do all 14

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon you can't judge a mountaineer by the years; consider other factors as well: the time needed for a permit and also that Jerzy did all the mountains in a row; Messner did other things in between, man when are you gonna stop comparing them; you should respect Messner for still being alive after all that he's done (8000ers, deserts, poles, etc.) for me this shows that he is the most persevering guy in the world; sry, surviving counts and asking him, he'd never say he is superior to J.

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel I did not started the game. Somebody made mistake calling Messner "the best mountaineer in the world". I just disagree with it - it's my right. you have also right, to disagree with me, but first before you write something about Jerzy in order to diminish his achievements in mountains, you should read carefully about Jerzy, because it seems you have big gaps in your knowledge about him. Jerzy also climbed other mountains between 8000ers. what did you read about Jerzy? Wikipedia?

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon stop being chickenshit about a simple statement man, it's just a headline and I don't even find it out of place, you can go on wining about whatever you like but Messner is simply a legend and he revolutionized and intensified mountaineering in a way no other one did, well just to say he made it more publicly famous this video is about him so no need comparing him to some other mountaineer that might be similarily strong; I bet there R plenty of Jerzy videos that you can comment on

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon yes, and do you know if Jerzy did other climbing, for instance free solo rock climbing, as well? because that would answer the "Who is better" question.....as far as I know Jerzy just did high altitude climbing, ist that right??

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel as I wrote you, Kukuczka's achievements in Himalayas are more spectacular than Messner's. Himalayas as the highest mountains on earth are the toughest place to do mountaineering, demanding from a climber all kinds of skills. Amen.

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon What you just gave me is soully your opinion, that's all

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel you write, I can't judge a mountaineer by the years, but I guess everybody, who says, Messner is the best, take only into account, he was the first, who collected all 8000ers. is it enough to say he is the best? I don't think so. Kukuczka made it also, but in much better style. you give examples of other activities of Messner - ok, but we consider here, who is the best mountaineer, not who is the best traveler, explorer etc. (it would be even harder though)!

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon Much better style?? Messner revolutionised mointaineering by being the first to introduce alpine style climbing at 8000ers and he was a top notch climber in the alps w/o snow and ice before 1970, you consider that exploring?? Do me a favour and stop being ridiculous...I bet Kukuczka would be similarily famous for his achievements in the alpine region if he wasn't dead so don't feel offended by the name of the video, just face it, stop being pathetically emotional

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel Kukuczka climbed also in the Alpes, he made there some routes as first. It was usuall way of Polish climbers - starting in Tatra Mountains, then Alpes, various mountain ranges in Asia to Himalaya. Kukuczka was also one of best practitioners of alpine style climbing in Himalayas, next to the other Polish, Wojtek Kurtyka or Krzysztof Wielicki. Messner probably spoke more about alpine climbing, than practised that in Himalayas.

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon Don't bullshit me man "Messner probably spoke more about alpine climbing, than practised that in the Himalayas", R you nuts?? Messner was the first ever to climb alpine style in the himalayas, he made 100+ first climbs all over the world so stop denying that, and You sound so pathetic by always advocating(check that word on leo.org :-)) that Jerzy is the best alpinist or whatever...noone gives a shit

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel it seems you have bigger problem with this discussion than me, because you react on each opinion against Messner or for Jerzy like a woman during menopause (do you have it?). you base your knowledge about Kukuczka probably only on wikipedia note, it is too little. you should accept, there are people, who dont agree with the statement 'Messner is the best mountaineer'. or maybe you're way of thinking is like the one of the Nazis: everyone not with us is against us???

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon What the heck, you seem to have started this conversation by putting in Jerzy, although you R watching a Messner video; you know, that title is just a title and it doesn't mean the world; just because you seem to be an underground jerkoff to Jerzy, doesn't mean that everyone else is Nazis; You are AT THE MOMENT on a Messner youtube link, so WTF, I never denied JERZY, I even asked you questions about him although I like Messner more :-) honestly, just log off youtube and stfu

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel so what I am here? I have the right to comment each video, each statement. who are you, that you deprive me the right to write my comments here and to discuss on any topic?! you behave yourself as Nazi, because you dont accept any other standpoint than yours - the only right in your opinion. and maybe you're blind or hypocrite, because you did not see, I am not the only one who doesnt agree, Messner is the best. It is my right, and I dont give a fuck, whether you like it, or not.

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon No, of course you have the right to write whatever you want, it's just that you seem to want to vehemently prove to everyone, that Jerzy is better in whatever way, and that may even be correct but it's not significant now to do a debate; let's stop wasting our times :-)

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel I think it is no waste of time. as long we humans are able to discuss with eachother, especially on difficult topics, it's ok. but honestly I think it is pointless to discuss, who is the best mountaineer. there are too many aspects to evaluate, and some you cannot even evaluate or compare. Messner is great, Kukuczka was great. probably noone ever will repeat their achievements in the mountains. thank you for discussion. peace.

[wrath666japel]

@KowalskyLeon Check out tribute to Jerzy... on youtube

[KowalskyLeon]

@wrath666japel I checked it last year. last year it was 20th anniversary of Kukuczka's death. I remember it, I watched the news on tv and read in newspaper that time, when he died. he tried to climb as first the south face of Lhotse. I was upset, because I thought Kukuczka is immortal, at least in the mountains. now I know more about it and understand, how much they risk. Kukuczka wrote a book 'My vertical world'. you can check it also.

[nivolet1968]

@KowalskyLeon You have ideas that i share completely,especially when you say not to create ranking among giants of montaineering.

Ciao from ligurian montain.

[KowalskyLeon]

@nivolet1968 gracie Nivolet. yes, we - common bread eaters should draw inspiration and positive energy from their achievements and owe them respect. greetings from Baltic coast.

[ironbuli]

@ironmanboy. Messner was first but he is not the best. The title "The best mountaineer in the World" is misleading...

[TheInGenCO]

@ironbuli what you mean he is not the best! For the time he definetely was!!!

And at that time noone else would have done it better!

[superniki1337]

@ironbuli no.

[LeanKay]

Anybody knows what's the song that they used during the monologues (when the young Reinhold appears)

[boogeymanhydrobudda]

damn reinold you are a badass mofo fo sho