@socrev2012 i'm sorry, but you need to go back throughout history and look where the workers have owned the means of production. Your comments are naive and have no basis in reality. I deal with facts and evidence. Provide some evidence where the workers have controlled production and it hasn't self destructed. That is why they devolve into totalitarian institutions, and no innovation as no opinions outside the 'leaders" is allowed. I wish it was diffferent, but that's the way it is..
@socrev2012 You apparently miss the fact that when the means of production is owned by everyone, it is effectively owned by no one. No one is responsible, unless they appoint or vote in a management team. This leads to an elite group (with no skin in the game) who make rules and determine production based on keeping their positions, not what is best for the long term growth of the company. It is inevitable, and why socialized companies and countries rarely produce innovative ideas.
@OldTimeRocker100 If everyone have a democratic voice in the production everyone will benefit of the most effective and best decisions. If the workers decide to have an appointed management, they can always vote and change certain decisions they dont like or choose a new management. So the management cant make decisions that only benefits them, it would be impossible. Or the workers can just begin total self-management again.
Liberal freedom is never "for the people". Its for the people who have property! Read John Locke the founder of liberalism, he says it clarly what liberal freedom is. Its about that the individual and what he can do with his property. Today 1% controlls almost all property, I dont know anybody who even ones his car or house today, the bank ones it! Liberal freedom is the freedom of the property owning class, and its tyranny for the wast majoriy of people who dont own property.
Wages in the US have been exploding for decades. Economists don't measure the gains from product improvement. This video shows a simple equation that will win the debate for Friedman. Just ask 2 simple questions. What is quality? What is convenience? One equation can explain it all. youtube.com/watch?v=2c4mvGekYZY
@socrev2012 Nope that was corporatism aka crony capitalism. The cooperation's were in government, and that was the problem. Friedman economics practices government limited to such an extent that there is nothing to corrupt.
@DMAN123223 There is no thing as "crony capitalism" or "corporatism", it is just words that neoliberals make up when capitalism as such fails. The "crony" and "corporatism" are as much part of the capitalist system as war and poverty.
@socrev2012 Listen... corporatism can only survive if it provides better product/service than the small producers can... at the point when this changes, those people being and leading corporations, change... it is we who benefit their services. However, still we as humanity are being enslaved, but not by corporations, but rather by banks, who can invent money out of thin air, while you have to work for it and sweat... it is as simple as that! I hate when economists talk complicated!
@staimaubosni Capitalism is capitalism is capitalism. We live in a capitalist society. Capital is a revolutionary force, it will cross all barriers that you set up to stop it, until the workers decide not to be wage-slaves anymore.
@socrev2012 Corporatism is when a corporation shifts government to their favour. Was there not a corporate ear piece in Washington? Former Treasury Secretary Paulson was a former CEO of Goldman Sachs. Not to mention strongly in favour of that bailout deal. Once he was in, Banks could gamble away without loosing their money if they loose. Therefore, it lead to the 2008 financial crisis. And yet you say it doesn't exist? Could you not make a emotional case and provide more than assertion?
@socrev2012 Nope it's in proportion to the government size. Hong Kong for example, the government is tiny with no trade or investment barriers and tiny amounts of spending and taxation with a hugely successful economy. There is no corporatism here, just free trade capitalism. power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power a government has the more it'll be corrupted.
@DMAN123223 Or it is that the less power a government has and the more power the companies have the more the society is corrupted. With no state controlling the market it means that the market can do what ever it wants to do. The abscence of the state does not mean that there is no corruption. This is like saying that the only country in the world that have no crime is Somalia because it have no government and no laws, I am sure it is wonderful in Somalia, no crime!
@socrev2012 So Stalin was not corrupt? The communists had perfect control over the market, how could they be corrupt according to you? I said limited government not no government. What's so wrong, dare I ask, with a system of two individuals freely trading value for value with no coercion? Goldman Sachs couldn't do the immoral things they did without government size. Limited government is the best way to escape corruption, next time try to explain how limited government can corrupt with evidence
@DMAN123223 Stalin made the rules, so no he was not corrupt in any legal sense. But in a moral sense, yes I would say he was corrupt.
In capitalism you dont trade freely, capitalism is based on theft, on private property. That creates a society where those who own the means of production have a big advantage over those who do not own but only have their labour to sell. What you are asking for is freedom for the ruling class and slavery for the workers.
@socrev2012 In a free economy, workers have the right to voluntary union. This is critical to the workers freedom and therefore the free economy. Income mobility is deep in the system, elimination of poverty is more prominent in free market capitalism than socialism, where in socialism it was it's first goal. Therefore, In a sense I ask for freedom of the ruling class, as long as everyone is a part of that ruling class, namely everyone has the freedom to choose their own conditions to their work
@DMAN123223 Freedom to form a union is not freedom. Freedom for the workers is a common ownership of the means of production and a democratically controlled production. Today we have capitalists owning the means of production and controlling the economy and the lives of the workers. Why should not everyone take part in decisions that effects our own lives? You are basically excluding democracy because you believe in the dictatorship of private property instead.
@socrev2012 Democracy serves majority. You are not the majority, you are in the fact the greatest minority: the individual. Did it occur that the majority can be just as tyrannical? Example: Civil rights. Yes, everyone should take part in decisions that effect our own lives, did I say otherwise? Your job assuming you have one, came about by your choice, if you work for someone also by their choice. Would you like people walking into your home by force or would you like a choice in the matter?
@DMAN123223 So what you want is dictatorship instead of democracy. That is what you are saying. If we dont own the means of production and manage the economy democratically togheter we dont have control over our own lifes. We are forced to sell our labour to those who undemocratically own the means of production and control the economy and our lifes.
@socrev2012 No, what I'm saying is unchecked democracy leads to dictatorship. Take Weimar Germany, after WW1 it became a free democratic nation, they could vote for whoever they wanted to. So they voted Hitler. A truly democratic country is ruled by the highest bidder for power. Last I remember, There wasn't anything stopping you from running your own busyness or becoming an entrepreneur, unless you live in a crony capitalist society where they have laws to prevent newcomers.
@DMAN123223 Search for Saipan, free-trade Ayn Rand-experiment. And you will understand what I mean with wageslavery and only freedom for those who own the means of production.
@socrev2012 I searched the exact words and nothing came. But, I assume you're talking about the workers poor wages. A few points to make: 1.) the economy is pretty terrible already, government spending is much to high compared to private spending. 2.) the immigrant workers skills weren't worth very much to begin with (comes from the bad government based ed. in their homeland) 3.) In 2002 the workers sued the sweat shops for better conditions and won (Yes! court rulings do exist is free markets!)
@jakiner You have no idea! ..he is one of the greatest economists who ever lived.. I have my arguments against him.. but he truly is for the freedom and benefit of the people!
@socrev2012 No, they haven't! Best example today, still is China! Did you ever listen to him talking about China? ...also, check out what happens today with the pension system in USA? He told us years ago that this is going to happen, but noone believed! Also, read his books, so you would know... Not so long ago, relatively, Coca Cola can costed 25c... how much is it today? ... Check that and you'll know how many times has the total money supply multiplied in USA since then.. peace!
@staimaubosni China adopts a sort of state-capitalism, a heavily controlled capitalism were the state decides where and when certain companies can make business. They are only following Marx and are now industrialising the country and when capitalism meets its limits(like it have done in the west) they will adopt to more and more socialism.
Neo-liberalism have failed miserably, not for the rich but for the people.
@jakiner He's the devil to you because you're an underachieving schmuck who can't achieve anything in life without the government you fucking disgrace.
"Besides thanks to capitalism and economic freedom you have a computer and internet! XD"
lmao. just lmao. Go read some history of those inventions before you post. As for Friedman and his "prize" All I can say is...Sweden, shame on you guys.
@Hoschi0913 Actually Obama is much worse. At least Friedman actually did some decent economics when he wasn't shilling for corporations and big government. Obama got a peace prize while engaging in warfare, a travesty if there ever was one.
@locolatino11 No, forget about the propaganda and read the facts. The regime of Pinochet didn't start because they wanted to implement free market ideas, but rather because they wanted to put out a communist president (who was already condemned by the Chamber of Deputies). Replacing one tyrannical regime with another is not a really good idea, but when Friedman was called for economic advise (just one time, and around 5 years later after the dictatorship started) he went.
@schustergph Allende wasn't a tyrant. Despite a very amiable attitude towards the Cuban dictatorship, possible constitutional abuses, as well as working more and more against the 60-70 % who didn't vote for him in 1970, he was a follower of the Chilean constitutional tradition. Certainly parliament (an elected body) had voted in favor of unseating him (a fact hardly ever pointed out) it didn't have the constitutional right to, no more than Bohner/Reid can call a vote against Obama.
@LibertyRealm I am from Chile and my parents where sentenced to prison without trial or charges... Friedmans ideal only survives when people dont have basic human rights....
@LibertyRealm That was Argentina. The Chilean junta's death toll was more like 3,000-5,000 (excluding/including all the "disappeareds", whose fates remain ambiguous). Strange, when you think of that almost nobody (outside Latin America) recognises the name "Videla" today (he's still alive, unlike his Chilean counterpart) whereas Pinochet is hardly unknown to anybody X-P
The chilean military regime "death toll" was around 3.000, thats INCLUDING the "missing" that were around 1.500, the other 1.500 died in armed engagements during and in the months after the overthrow of the criminal Allende.
The argentinian military regime on the other hand killed around 30.000 people.
DESPIERTEN... VEAN EL DOCUMENTAL "LA DOCTRINA DEL SHOCK" SE LAS RECOMIENDO... NO CREAN LAS ESTUPIDECES DE ESTE DESCEREBRADO IGUAL QUE FRIEDMAN... LA TRISTEZA DE LOS "NOVEL" ES QUE SON ELLOS MISMOS AUTOPREMIANDOSE... PERO UNA GRAN CANTIDAD DE VECES, AL PASO DE LOS AÑOS, COMO SE VE AHORA... SALE QUE LAS MIERDAS QUE SALEN DE SUS CEREBROS, LEJOS DE AYUDAR AL MUNDO LO HUNDEN MÁS... ESTO ES MUY BUENO PARA LOS QUE TIENEN EL PODER Y EL DINERO... PARA LA MAYORÍA DE LA GENTE NO...
@helpdonate1 Chomsky WOULDN'T destroy this guy in a debate, he is good in his linguistic stuff, but his comments about economic affairs are baseless and stupid.
Ha Joon Chang people, Ha Joon Chang (and Chomsky) and you will never care what M. Friedman says ever again. Check the Youtube vid: why the world isnt flat, for starters
@bbnatedogg I have yet to meet anybody who says that the quality of life has not improved, or has stayed the same since the dawn of capitalism. Are you implying that you think the standard of living has decreased? If so, what facts and figures are you basing this logic on?
@bbnatedogg You're portrayal of the the 19th century is essentially accurate, save one important observation. That period - which was laissez-faire in approach - facilitated the greatest increase in the standard of living for the ordinary man throughout all of history. Sure, working conditions weren't adequate, but that's by TODAY'S standards. You're lacking perspective. Conditions were even worse before capitalism was embraced, so what's your point?
@magiadefutbol That's qualitative! I can see your point in a way because, most of the people in Europe that migrated to the cities were peasant farmers, which didn't have great conditions. Whether or not the "standard of living increased more 4 the ordinary man than throughout history", is highly QUALITATIVE! Especially 4 people in America, which were the people I was referring to.
communists are such losers. but they refuse to be losers. so what do they do? they don't try to outdo others (because they are losers) and just want to abuse them and steal from them, and then make sure everyone is a loser so they don't feel like losers any more. it's plain envy posing as an ideology.
I help invent a car; shortly after releasing it, I tell the public my car is going to break down in a few years; the car breaks down; I am worshiped as an automotive expert. Insert the central banking system where I put cars and you have Milton Friedman. This man is overrated.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I help invent a car; shortly after releasing it, I tell the public my car is going to break down in a few years; the car breaks down; I am worshiped as an automotive expert. Insert economics where I put cars and you have Milton Friedman. This man is overrated.
@usaeagle1776 On a video that is meant to praise someone, I instead criticize him. The intended audience of this video disagrees with me. This is something I expected, but did not allow to silence me. If FOX news was interviewing me, I would still give all of my honest Left-Wing opinions to them as well, with no expectation to be received positively by their audience either. It is a risk I am willing to take to get my voice out there, for I support Democracy. Enjoy your day.
@bodinian I support Democracy as well. But since leftists and liberals only account for 20% of the American population, your negative votes mirrors that of the rest of the country when it comes to leftist views. Enjoy your day.
@usaeagle1776 Leftists and Liberals? 20%? I am intrigued how one can use numbers subjectively in the Republican party. The word Leftist is intentionally vague so that it may group together a large portion of the world, who have vastly different views among themselves, into one category; this makes slander more compact. While Liberals are only a portion of the Democratic party, the Democratic party is at least 31% of the population and Repubs are 29%. Milton had numbers to back him up at least.
@bodinian : I am not part of the Republican Party, so your assumption is false, as are most assumptions based on no facts. 20% call themselves liberal, while 41% independent and 39% conservative. Not party affliations. And Leftist is not a vague term nor is conservative. They are what they are. Or a perhaps you aspire to the Clinton way of saying what the acutal meaning of "IS" is.
@usaeagle1776 Enjoy a great socialized resource and check the statistics out for yourself. You may refer directly to the Gallup poll for 2010, or go to Wikipedia on the Democratic party. I fear that your careless procurement of false statistics has greatly effected your credibility, in my eyes. I want someone like Milton, a man of intelligence and good debate skills, to go against, not someone who makes me have to pull out resources to prove is talking non-sense.
@bodinian : well, then perhaps youtube is not the place for you. The Gallop poll,not a conservative rag is the source for the percentages. I fear that the careless inability to accept facts and or reality has greatly effected your credibility. If you cannot deal with the terms presented then perhaps you should visit only liberal websites that push the liberal propaganda that you evidently seem to be more perceptive too, along with the snobbish liberal attitude.
@usaeagle1776 Perhaps YouTube is not a place for intelligent debate, because my issue with your false statements comes off as a sign of my weakness, in your mind. I never said I was a Liberal and you have inferred that I was, just as I, perhaps mistakenly, inferred you were a Republican. It seems that this was pointless to begin with, as no valid points I make will penetrate your psyche to change your mind and nothing you make up will go through mine. We must go our separate ways. Shame really.
@bodinian well, there is a difference between liberal and so forth. Republican infers to the party, which I am not. And yes, youtube is not the place for an IQ piss test.
@usaeagle1776 Enjoy your Friedman, enjoy your weasel words, enjoy it all now. For once you are dead you will have missed the opportunity to enjoy it. If this makes you happy, I will not interrupt. But do not harass me for I find solace in a different perspective. It only makes you appear insecure in your own, my friend.
@bodinian I am very secure, both mentally,physically and financially. I find solace as well, but more so in the debunking of leftist drivel and communist/soclialist propaganda. Almost as sweet as candy to be true. My you find your own solace in the fantasy land of leftist and communist/socalist revisionism.
@usaeagle1776 Someone else with a late reply to my old posts brought me back here again.I'm not a Socialist, if you somehow got that idea. But I respect Socialism as a valid economic structure that runs stable nations, not like the utopia you want to think of it as. You may as well say that a country with Spanish as its official language is a Utopian pipe dream when, in fact, there are plenty of examples of it in practical use.I don't get how supporting one position makes you ignorant of another
@usaeagle1776 I support Capitalism but I see both the benefits AND the flaws inherent in the system. To support something and to be a fanatic are not the same. If you are a Christian, you are not automatically required to think all other religions are full of shit. You may humbly disagree with their message but acknowledge their significance. Not everything is a battle. I disagree with Milton's crony ideology, and you call me a leftist for that. Don't shut out different views as always bad ones.
@usaeagle1776 This is an example of a video that I agree with Milton on, /watch?v=be5Ty5tP8us&feature=related . I do not think all of his ideas are so bad, but by no means do I see his word as the end-all-be-all.
@usaeagle1776 Through my experience of studying both free-market economics and socialism I have come to the conclusion that those who advocate free-markets, or capitalism, define socialism very differently than those who advocate socialism itself, and vice-avers.
And that those who advocate socialism define capitalism very differently than those who advocate capitalism, and vice-avers.
We need to understand each others' philosophies before we just hate each other y'all.
@bodinian solace? what the fuck. Telling. Socialism isnt an attempt at improving things, its a utopian religious style ideal to make you feel better about yourself. Leave the economy to people interested in reality, kthx bai.
@DazedSpy2 Oh my, I see you are a real expert on the subject. It is a shame you are here, locked up in the YouTube comments section of an obscure video, you should be out fixing all of the problems in our country. Go, now, while there is still time! We need your enlightenment in this world!
These imbecile Scandinavian socialists were brought up on socialism and the idea of big government, and now they want to export that to the rest of the world victimizing all of us and telling us how stupid we all are for not wanting a collectivist society taken care of by the government from cradle to grave. Western propaganda when it comes to collectivism, has two sides, one is Israel, which preaches expansionism via the government, then you have Norway which preaches socialism via the state.
@Otzmatron Yes.. Norway has what 6 million people? What would happen to them if they took the nanny care away? The prices for private care there is through the roof expensive.. And sub par, in spite of the garbage you hear about how great it is.. If socialists countries start collapsing (Italy, Greece, Spain etc...) you will see huge panic.. Look at Germany getting a taste of what we have here. Bailing out Greece? Like Tn bails out Ca.. I think collectivists should be collected. In the Atlantic
@SuperGuitarman69 I live a stones throw from sevral universities, and almost every student and teacher who is teaching or has studies in the field of economics reject his theories. Have you noticed that when they are used the have, in all cases, failed for the vast majority of the people of the countries they are used in, and only a very small group profits from it in the end.
@dave19941000 You have no clue of what you are talking about.. In the countries his theories have been used in they have thrived.. Secondly, I HAVE a degree in economics.. The reason why you find Keynesian economists in school and not in the REAL world is because they are ALL teachers NOT practitioners of economics.. None of them have had a job in the private sector.. They are ALL government employees. They depend on monetary policy that prints money to keep them in work and with retirement..
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 1) Your joking right? Chile 1974, Friedmans policies implemented, millions unemployed, poverty skyrockets to 40%, Russia 1992, same story, poverty rises to 50%, well above that under the communist party. Poland 1990, his policies are used, and even after trying to reverse it unemployment is still at 40%. UK 1982, unemployment triples after Thatcher paces anto-union policies.
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 2) The US 1980-1990, top 1% income rises 73%, almost no change in all other brackests and lowerst 20% loses 5% of their income. Only 2 people would not see the failures of his policies, a mad man and an economist.
@dave19941000 IRA? guess u mean IRS. and i really don't care how rich the rich got, comparing everyone to the rich will always make you unhappy. there has always been a rich class in every society, the question is whether the common man is making progress. and the answer here is YES, which isn't natural throughout history and is not to be expected. we've accomplished alot, and we're ungrateful for what we have. all income levels rose. close the borders, youll see the distribution get more even
@dave19941000 Wrong completely and utterly wrong.. The Chilean economy was in the tank.. Today, if they had not implemented the free market principles that Milton set forth, long after Pinochet was gone, they would NOT have the economy they have.. They would be like Cuba or Venezuela.. So that you are saying is a bold face leftist propaganda bullshit lie.. I will no longer tolerate the leftist lying bullshit machine.. You want this country like an inner city that the leftists created? Fuck off
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 1) Interesting your mention Cuba and Venezuela, as Cube has the best economy of any Carabian nation (including Puerto Rico) as well as a health care system that is better then that of the US (but thats not saying much). And Venezuela has the largest middle class in Latin America, and even the rich are doing better now then they where in the 80s and 90s before the social-democratic revelution.
@dave19941000 1st off, if you think that Cuba has a great economy? Then you are not even remotely qualified to discuss anything.. Let's just let it go now shall we? You are pretty much insane.
@SuperGuitarman69 Did I say the economy was great? No, I said it was better then its neighbours, which if you actualy went to there you would now it to be true, oh wait thats right Americans are not allowed to go to places that their puppet dictators got overthrown in. Cuba may not be great, but its a hell of a lot better then Jamaica, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Puerto Rico, etc.
@dave19941000 And as compared to America? It is a shit hole and a half. Look we have 330 million people in our country. We have the highest standard of living by a long shot..1/5 of our middle class is wealthier than every single person in Germany..Where we went wrong is by adopting ANY of the socialist policies that has NOTHING to do with what America is all about. We are a productive free society that has been stopped by those like Obama.. It must and will return. If we have to rip it from you
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 1) Those same socialist policies are what created the middle class, or does getting payed 2$ a day for 12 hours work constitute the "Middle" class. And yes, the US does have a higher standard of living then Cuba, but it's still behind: Germany, Denmark, Norway, Canada, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, etc. If you looked into a history book you'd notice that all 1st world nations became strong at the same time as their socialist policies where used, not before.
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 2) And if the US is so great, why is it that it has, only 3 times, been in the top ten in quality of life, and never been above 6. And if it's so great why is the poverty rate in the US the highest in the 1st world? And the highest in income inequality? Lowest in education AND health care to the point where even Cuba has a better one? And at the same time as Friedman's policies where put in place the rich saw their income rise but no one else did, and the poor saw it fall
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 3) and You think Obama is a Socialist? Don't insult me, he's center-right at best, at worst he's just another far right loon. His health care reform was so watered down it's the type of thing Bush would have passed, and 40% of Americans in polls said it did not go far enough in it's reform. And his jobs bill is nothing, comparing it to something like the New Deal is like comparing the Iraq occupation to the Marshal Plan, it's nothing but right wing bull in disguise.
@dave19941000 Everything you said? Is a bullshit lie.. I really am not even going to respond to it it is so ludicrous.. The healthcare bill is going to end America.. That is why it is going down.. And people reject it because we can handle our own healthcare.. We need government OUT of it so competition can return and prices will be driven down.. Government fucks everything up always ALWAYS.. Only morons cannot see it.. GOODBYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE
@SuperGuitarman69 Typical right winger, call names, make no real argument, and claim victory. You have not addressed any of the point I brought up. Also, in the US you get health care based on how much money you have, in every other 1st world country you get i bassed on your need, which, considering the millions of americans who can not afford health care, seems like a better deal then being left out to die. And if you want me to not respond to you, dont respond to me.
@dave19941000 Yeah Karl Marx agrees with you so you have a moron that is on your side.. And no, there isn't anyone in the United States that goes without healthcare.. If someone is in serious need, the doctors take a Hippocratic Oath.. They must care for them.. And I am a guitarist.. I play guitar for a living.. Got it? I make well over 6 figures a year, own a beautiful home and have 3 cars... Nowhere else on earth is that possible.. And 280 million have their own insurance.. How many people P1
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 1) Oh you make 6 figures eh? So your admiting that you dont live the life style of the avarage american (the avarage income in $48 000). You are admiting to the fact you do not understand how the majority of americans live. Id like you to drive throught Northern Michigen or the Lower Ninth Ward and tell me the US is the best country to live in. Atleast in every other 1st world country everyone gets health care that is high in quality AND will not make you go bankrupt.
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 2) Also, 280 million people covered in a country of 312 million is not something to be proud of, its something to be ashamed of. To say that something that works on the small scall can not work on a larger one is like when Soviets say their system only doesn work because it needs to be global to work. Economic-political models work just as well on the large scale as they do on the small scale. If you lived the life of the avarage person mabye youd have a realistic view.
@dave19941000 First off.. I have earned everything I have got.. Understand me? It wasn't handed to me, I had to be better than everyone else.. Wonders of the free market.. Getting paid according to your REAL value huh? So I make no apologies.. And the poor need help yes, but how? Well you brought it up so let's look at it.. In the inner cities such as Detroit, it is the FAULT OF GOVERNMENT.. They have taxed, sided with unions, and driven the entire economy into the ground by leftist policies P1
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 1) You earned it? Did you go to the same school as every other person in teh country, comming from the same household in the same income area as every person in the US? I dont think so. Did you know that almost every millionair and billionair who earned their money came from an upperclass family? I want you to take a real long look at the US, not the pritty horse whit that everyone sees, but the places where people live outside of Suburbia, and look at the people there.
@dave19941000 And for your information.. I came from a lower middle class family.. And I earned my here.. So did my brother and eventually my father.. And another thing you thief, I have NEVER taken a government handout.. I got through life just fine on my fathers health insurance and then my own when I got older and had that responsibility.. You are worthless if you are asking me or my neighbor to pay for your healthcare..
@SuperGuitarman69 I never asked you to pay for my helth care, I myself come for an upperclass family, and I have everything to loose with universal health care, but you know what? For the vast majority, and by vast I mean about 85% of the country, Socialism is the better of evils when it comes to Socialism and Capitalism, because in Socialism the workers, the people who create the wealththe rest of the population uses, own the means of production, which makes companies more efficient.
@dave19941000 Isn't it funny the places you mentioned are ran by leftists.. Your friends!! How you help is charity.. It saves trillions in tax dollars and it goes directly to the people who TRULY need it.. Secondly, not ONE of the places who have the crazy universal healthcares citizens could afford it without help.. Shotty care, at shotty distribution.. Now, onto the 280 million people.. Did you see the images for the people on black Friday? These are people who are clammering over a P2
@dave19941000 2000 flat screen tv.. Do they appear to be poor? Or in need? These are the same people that are screaming for their healthcare to be paid by me, yet they are getting expensive items for Christmas? Guess what? They could money manage and afford health insurance for their entire family with what they were fighting for.. And to finish this all off?Their isn't one single country that is socialist that isn't in real trouble..That is how the EURO got created in the first place, by design
@dave19941000 See, I really cannot understand this.. I have no idea of your age, but my guess is you are really really young.. You bought into the propaganda that government cares for you or are interested in your welfare.. They are not.. It is true of every system in the world.. Crony Capitalism is ours, Socialism is the rest of the worlds.. To where government controls things.. Which means the richest? ARE IN GOVERNMENT.. And are there for that reason and that reason alone!!
@SuperGuitarman69 Considering the economic problems of Corny Capitalism, and the fact that for well over 85% of the population Social-democracy is the better system, Im going to take the lesser of the two evils. And your right, Socialism would not work in the US, you people cant understand how the system works in the first place. (the problem in the EU has to do with a combination of banking malpractice and bad interconetions in their economy) American Corny Capitalism only helps the rich.
@dave19941000 We have it hear.. It is not better.. I have traveled the world and seen it.. The free market is for the people.. Equality and social justice only benefits those in cahoots with government.. It is seen in every single country I have been to.. I wouldn't trade America for one other nation.. I could only imagine my life somewhere else.. And a heads up? People didn't come here by the millions because they wanted government handouts.. They came here for opportunity. CASE CLOSED.
@SuperGuitarman69 And again, all youve done is claimed to see the world (takea look at your back yard and look at the parts of the US youd rather not first), but If you had ever set food in Western Europe or Japan, or Australia, or Canada, or New Zealand, then you would not be saying the US system is better. Yes people left Europe by the millions, but it was in the days regular people could not own land and wages where low, back when the US was the Socialist one.
@dave19941000 No it doesn't.. Socialism creates a class of people who rely on what crumbs the government leaves them.. Monopolies are created which hurt the people by not creating competition to give choice.. Then your government works overtime to "sell" socialism to the people.. Which is underhanded.. You get a class of people who survive NOT live.. They live off the crumbs from the government's back.. The government official do not play by the same rules as the citizen. They have Part 1
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 1) Your argument about why Socialism is bad could, if used word for word, but substituting the word Socialism for Corporations, discribe Capitalism. And about ditch digers maing as much as doctors, your mixing up Socialism with Communism, which are as different as Capitalism is to both of them. In Socialism the workers own the means of production, anything else can go either way and be called Socialism..
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 2) The problem is balance, just like some European countries are to Socialist (Greece, Italy), the US is to Capitalist, allowing itself to have an education and health care system comparable to 3ed world countries, as well as income inequality. Germany and the Nordic countries on the other had have found the balance needed, and they should be viewed as the examples, not the to Socialist Southern Europeans or the Communists, and especialy not Friedmans followers.
@dave19941000 Look.. I am getting bored with this.. You do not understand economics.. Yet you are arguing with a guy that wouldn't have a degree if he didn't study economics because it is my major. America has socialism.. Our schools are socialist.. Medicare and Medicaid are both socialist policies.. So criticizing our schools and Medicare and Medicaid? Isn't in your favor. Because they are socialist just like yours..They need to be free market.. Roads and military is all we need from government
@dave19941000 You are making a fool of yourself the US is socialist. Do you see that video on the right of the screen with greenspan in it "there is no free market" watch it. Money manipulation by the fed, to prop up the corporate and banking interests, who lobby an overly inflated govt, for benefits that they shouldn't be able to dole out, are reaping all the benefits of the once very prosperous nation. Trade deficits along with an inflated service sector highlights how weak the US economy is!
@KevinSheerin Lack of free trade does not equal socialism. The US is corporatist (which is basicly Libertarian but with the government helping the corporations). Every country has some socialism (exept for Somalia), just as all have some form or free-market, the difference is balance, and the US is far to much of the Free-market side of the balance for its own good. After all the past 30 years have shown that the liberalization of the US economy has done more harm then good.
@KevinSheerin The lowering of teriffs with China as well as other Asian countries which have made it more profitable to produce manufactured goods overseas which has destroyed the american industry that was the backbone of the economy. A strong manufacturing sector means a strong economy, and the state of the US economy has gone down at the same time and speed as industry being moved to Asia and Mexico.
@dave19941000 the lowering of tarrifs was lobbied for by corporate interest so that they could move their manufacturing base to a lower cost base and have no import penalty to the US.That is 1 of the strange times where tarrifs should never have been imposed in the 1st place but upon their eventual removal the underlying issues of govt intervention in the free market rose their head. American producers would never have moved their manf base if wage inflation caused by the fed had never occured!
@dave19941000 Also as i states already thegovt in th us has inflated to a point where business can influence the govt for their own interests and incentives although capitalism gets you to the point where big business can use the wealth they have created to lobby govt for incentives the point is that govt should never have the ability to dole out the benefits that corporate interest lobby them for, that is not a free market system anymore it is a socialist one!
@KevinSheerin And if the Us does have socialism (if you call it that, the form the US has is a twisted version when compared to the rest of the 1st world), then why not try to modle it after that of the Nordic coutnries? It has led them to having the highest qualities of life in the world, as well as stable economies and good income equality, a sharp contrace to the US which has only been in the top 10 a few times, has a fragile economy and has 3ed world levels of income inequality.
@dave19941000 I don't know about the nordic socio economic model but the reasons that the US can not use the models you advocate AND be as prosperous is because the US is far to population dense for it to be a perpetual drain on the global economy. The Us currently has almost double the population of the nordic economies AS A WHOLE on food stamps and socialism is what has put those people in that position!
@dave19941000 Actually the only way that the Nordic countries were able to provide that high standard of living was through markets and capital formation. The socialism which is just using tax men with guns pointing at people's head is inefficient compared to voluntary public choices such as charities, simply because you are letting the government (which is a monopoly) take over other functions of society as a monopoly.
@Baccanaso Charity funding social programs does not work. When you look at who gives how much, for people making under 100 000$ each year the loss you make will mean your more likely to give money to charity, with people making more less likely with the exeption of the ultra-rich like Bill Gates who can afford to give half their money away and still have more money then then know what to do with. You get what you pay for, thats why american social programs are as bad as they are.
@dave19941000 Actually people give to charities and would even give more given that they weren't being taxed to death by our government. Also, the money that your government takes in barely sees the light to day. The average welfare recipient should be receiving more than 100k a year, obviously they don't, so no, gov "social" programs have proven that they do not work, and do not help people get back up on their feet. Also, I don't care what your motive is, you don't force people to pay.
@Baccanaso You are a fucking chump. Yes, if we didn't tax anybody then everybody would donate it and all the social ills would be solved by charities. That's been tried before. It was called the 19th century in America, you dip shit. Go read a fucking history book and see what life for the average person was like. If you just leave it up to people to do the right thing then, that's what they'll do! Right? How do morons like you believe this shit?
@bbnatedogg aww did your panties get in a bunch? Herp Derp I want the state to force people to fund some programs that I think are right. Again the govs philosophy is "Throw enough shit on the wall so at least some of it will stick" Fucking inefficiency at is finest. Also you are a giant fucking idiot to think that somehow we will go to the tech conditions of the 19th century. Ergo, get that dick out of your mouth and actually write something that makes sense you fascist piece of donkey shit.
@Baccanaso Did I say the "tech conditions"?? You really must be a fucking short busser to think that's what I meant. I meant the political-economic conditions where people had no safety net, no labor rights, lived in putrid slums, and huge monopolies ruled the major industries. Oh wait, a putrid slum probably doesn't sound that bad to you considering you spent 9 months in your filthy, whore mother's rat-infested, hairy, smelly taco! Pull your head out of your ass, you will see better
@bbnatedogg aww you're resorting to insulting my mother now, it's personal for you, butthurt much? The safety net again is decentralized to either states or different forms of charities. Oh, and the monopolies were sanctioned by the Gov. God you are dumb! But some fascist kunt fuck like you wouldn't know anything about live and let live after all right? P.S. A worker for Ford in the 1910's would make 2500 today adjusted for inflation...yeah, learn some econ you stupid fucking obamabot ignoramus
You're so fucking retarded that you make all my arguments for me.2,500 adjusted for inflation?Is that supposed to be good?Maybe you should spend less time pontificating about your incoherent bullshit and go back to English class.You can't even fucking spelling or put a proper sentence together!The monopolies were eventually sanctioned by the government in the 19th century but, they didn't start out that way. They didn't need government sanction to build monopolies, just to not lose them.
death to liberalism
Kjellbot 6 days ago
@socrev2012 i'm sorry, but you need to go back throughout history and look where the workers have owned the means of production. Your comments are naive and have no basis in reality. I deal with facts and evidence. Provide some evidence where the workers have controlled production and it hasn't self destructed. That is why they devolve into totalitarian institutions, and no innovation as no opinions outside the 'leaders" is allowed. I wish it was diffferent, but that's the way it is..
OldTimeRocker100 1 week ago
Nobel prize with this award has no reputation... awarding this guy is like awarding hitler.
sicoticosandro 1 week ago
@sicoticosandro ya just like slaughtering 2 million people... Do the human race a favor and jump off a fucking cliff.
F1reF0rEffect 1 week ago
@sicoticosandro Obama has lowered the standards sufficiently enough that my cat can win a nobel prize.
BMunich16 4 days ago
I'm Swedish and the only things I he says that I can dinstinguish are "Freedom, stop capitalism"
TheTimmyFred 1 week ago
@socrev2012 You apparently miss the fact that when the means of production is owned by everyone, it is effectively owned by no one. No one is responsible, unless they appoint or vote in a management team. This leads to an elite group (with no skin in the game) who make rules and determine production based on keeping their positions, not what is best for the long term growth of the company. It is inevitable, and why socialized companies and countries rarely produce innovative ideas.
OldTimeRocker100 1 week ago
@OldTimeRocker100 If everyone have a democratic voice in the production everyone will benefit of the most effective and best decisions. If the workers decide to have an appointed management, they can always vote and change certain decisions they dont like or choose a new management. So the management cant make decisions that only benefits them, it would be impossible. Or the workers can just begin total self-management again.
socrev2012 1 week ago
what was that inbred leftard yelling?
Golemoid 1 week ago
EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY AND NOT EQUALITY OF RESULT ... THE ONLY THING THE MAN ALWAYS FOUGHT FOR!!!
staimaubosni 2 weeks ago
@staimaubosni If you fight for equal opportunity wou should fight for communism.
socrev2012 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what did the left-wingd activist say?
mnlmni 2 weeks ago
Liberal freedom is never "for the people". Its for the people who have property! Read John Locke the founder of liberalism, he says it clarly what liberal freedom is. Its about that the individual and what he can do with his property. Today 1% controlls almost all property, I dont know anybody who even ones his car or house today, the bank ones it! Liberal freedom is the freedom of the property owning class, and its tyranny for the wast majoriy of people who dont own property.
BlueFrog83 2 weeks ago
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Wages in the US have been exploding for decades. Economists don't measure the gains from product improvement. This video shows a simple equation that will win the debate for Friedman. Just ask 2 simple questions. What is quality? What is convenience? One equation can explain it all. youtube.com/watch?v=2c4mvGekYZY
IlirMr 2 weeks ago
Viva Pinochet, Poland !!!!
psycho381 3 weeks ago
Allende was a Russian agent, code name 'leader'.
psycho381 3 weeks ago
Friedman economics destroyed capitalism! Thank you!
socrev2012 3 weeks ago
@socrev2012 Nope that was corporatism aka crony capitalism. The cooperation's were in government, and that was the problem. Friedman economics practices government limited to such an extent that there is nothing to corrupt.
DMAN123223 2 weeks ago
@DMAN123223 There is no thing as "crony capitalism" or "corporatism", it is just words that neoliberals make up when capitalism as such fails. The "crony" and "corporatism" are as much part of the capitalist system as war and poverty.
socrev2012 2 weeks ago
@socrev2012 Listen... corporatism can only survive if it provides better product/service than the small producers can... at the point when this changes, those people being and leading corporations, change... it is we who benefit their services. However, still we as humanity are being enslaved, but not by corporations, but rather by banks, who can invent money out of thin air, while you have to work for it and sweat... it is as simple as that! I hate when economists talk complicated!
staimaubosni 2 weeks ago
@staimaubosni Capitalism is capitalism is capitalism. We live in a capitalist society. Capital is a revolutionary force, it will cross all barriers that you set up to stop it, until the workers decide not to be wage-slaves anymore.
socrev2012 1 week ago
@socrev2012 Corporatism is when a corporation shifts government to their favour. Was there not a corporate ear piece in Washington? Former Treasury Secretary Paulson was a former CEO of Goldman Sachs. Not to mention strongly in favour of that bailout deal. Once he was in, Banks could gamble away without loosing their money if they loose. Therefore, it lead to the 2008 financial crisis. And yet you say it doesn't exist? Could you not make a emotional case and provide more than assertion?
DMAN123223 1 week ago
@DMAN123223 That means that capitalism will always be = corporatism. Capitalism is coproratism and corporatism os capitalism.
socrev2012 1 week ago
@socrev2012 Nope it's in proportion to the government size. Hong Kong for example, the government is tiny with no trade or investment barriers and tiny amounts of spending and taxation with a hugely successful economy. There is no corporatism here, just free trade capitalism. power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power a government has the more it'll be corrupted.
DMAN123223 1 week ago
@DMAN123223 Or it is that the less power a government has and the more power the companies have the more the society is corrupted. With no state controlling the market it means that the market can do what ever it wants to do. The abscence of the state does not mean that there is no corruption. This is like saying that the only country in the world that have no crime is Somalia because it have no government and no laws, I am sure it is wonderful in Somalia, no crime!
socrev2012 1 week ago
@socrev2012 So Stalin was not corrupt? The communists had perfect control over the market, how could they be corrupt according to you? I said limited government not no government. What's so wrong, dare I ask, with a system of two individuals freely trading value for value with no coercion? Goldman Sachs couldn't do the immoral things they did without government size. Limited government is the best way to escape corruption, next time try to explain how limited government can corrupt with evidence
DMAN123223 1 week ago
@DMAN123223 Stalin made the rules, so no he was not corrupt in any legal sense. But in a moral sense, yes I would say he was corrupt.
In capitalism you dont trade freely, capitalism is based on theft, on private property. That creates a society where those who own the means of production have a big advantage over those who do not own but only have their labour to sell. What you are asking for is freedom for the ruling class and slavery for the workers.
socrev2012 1 week ago
@socrev2012 In a free economy, workers have the right to voluntary union. This is critical to the workers freedom and therefore the free economy. Income mobility is deep in the system, elimination of poverty is more prominent in free market capitalism than socialism, where in socialism it was it's first goal. Therefore, In a sense I ask for freedom of the ruling class, as long as everyone is a part of that ruling class, namely everyone has the freedom to choose their own conditions to their work
DMAN123223 1 week ago
@DMAN123223 Freedom to form a union is not freedom. Freedom for the workers is a common ownership of the means of production and a democratically controlled production. Today we have capitalists owning the means of production and controlling the economy and the lives of the workers. Why should not everyone take part in decisions that effects our own lives? You are basically excluding democracy because you believe in the dictatorship of private property instead.
socrev2012 1 week ago
@socrev2012 Democracy serves majority. You are not the majority, you are in the fact the greatest minority: the individual. Did it occur that the majority can be just as tyrannical? Example: Civil rights. Yes, everyone should take part in decisions that effect our own lives, did I say otherwise? Your job assuming you have one, came about by your choice, if you work for someone also by their choice. Would you like people walking into your home by force or would you like a choice in the matter?
DMAN123223 1 week ago
@DMAN123223 So what you want is dictatorship instead of democracy. That is what you are saying. If we dont own the means of production and manage the economy democratically togheter we dont have control over our own lifes. We are forced to sell our labour to those who undemocratically own the means of production and control the economy and our lifes.
socrev2012 1 week ago
@socrev2012 No, what I'm saying is unchecked democracy leads to dictatorship. Take Weimar Germany, after WW1 it became a free democratic nation, they could vote for whoever they wanted to. So they voted Hitler. A truly democratic country is ruled by the highest bidder for power. Last I remember, There wasn't anything stopping you from running your own busyness or becoming an entrepreneur, unless you live in a crony capitalist society where they have laws to prevent newcomers.
DMAN123223 1 week ago
@socrev2012 You are right and DMAN is an imbecile.
sicoticosandro 1 week ago
@DMAN123223 Search for Saipan, free-trade Ayn Rand-experiment. And you will understand what I mean with wageslavery and only freedom for those who own the means of production.
socrev2012 1 week ago
@socrev2012 I searched the exact words and nothing came. But, I assume you're talking about the workers poor wages. A few points to make: 1.) the economy is pretty terrible already, government spending is much to high compared to private spending. 2.) the immigrant workers skills weren't worth very much to begin with (comes from the bad government based ed. in their homeland) 3.) In 2002 the workers sued the sweat shops for better conditions and won (Yes! court rulings do exist is free markets!)
DMAN123223 1 week ago
I think that dude said something about chile,milton supported the brutal pinochet in chile.
folladordeprostis 3 weeks ago
WHAT WAS THIS GUY SAYING, IN THE STANDS?
staimaubosni 3 weeks ago
@staimaubosni Friedman go home, long live Chile, freedom! Stop capitalism!
socrev2012 3 weeks ago
So glad this guy is dead forever where he deserves to be.. IN HELL!
jakiner 3 weeks ago
@jakiner You have no idea! ..he is one of the greatest economists who ever lived.. I have my arguments against him.. but he truly is for the freedom and benefit of the people!
staimaubosni 3 weeks ago 4
@staimaubosni Then why has his practices failed so miserably?
socrev2012 2 weeks ago
@socrev2012 No, they haven't! Best example today, still is China! Did you ever listen to him talking about China? ...also, check out what happens today with the pension system in USA? He told us years ago that this is going to happen, but noone believed! Also, read his books, so you would know... Not so long ago, relatively, Coca Cola can costed 25c... how much is it today? ... Check that and you'll know how many times has the total money supply multiplied in USA since then.. peace!
staimaubosni 2 weeks ago
@staimaubosni China adopts a sort of state-capitalism, a heavily controlled capitalism were the state decides where and when certain companies can make business. They are only following Marx and are now industrialising the country and when capitalism meets its limits(like it have done in the west) they will adopt to more and more socialism.
Neo-liberalism have failed miserably, not for the rich but for the people.
socrev2012 1 week ago
@jakiner He's the devil to you because you're an underachieving schmuck who can't achieve anything in life without the government you fucking disgrace.
BMunich16 3 weeks ago 6
@BMunich16 says a pedo douchebag who hates on 14 year old kids on youtube :) check out his youtube chan kids!
pbkielyo 4 days ago
@pbkielyo My youtube channel? It's empty dude...
BMunich16 4 days ago
have him shot
pomegranat2000 1 month ago
"Besides thanks to capitalism and economic freedom you have a computer and internet! XD"
lmao. just lmao. Go read some history of those inventions before you post. As for Friedman and his "prize" All I can say is...Sweden, shame on you guys.
nerfmyaccount 1 month ago
@nerfmyaccount
LOL!
Only thanks to the adaptation of military technology to civilian services by free market entrepreneurs is that you can use the internet today.
LibertyRealm 1 month ago
@nerfmyaccount
but Obama getting the Nobel Prize is ok with you? what has he (Obama) done to deserve such high honors?
Hoschi0913 1 month ago
@Hoschi0913 Actually Obama is much worse. At least Friedman actually did some decent economics when he wasn't shilling for corporations and big government. Obama got a peace prize while engaging in warfare, a travesty if there ever was one.
nerfmyaccount 1 month ago 2
Freidman Helped kill 30 000 people in Chile! He is a mass murder with his shock doctrine!!!
locolatino11 1 month ago
@locolatino11 No, forget about the propaganda and read the facts. The regime of Pinochet didn't start because they wanted to implement free market ideas, but rather because they wanted to put out a communist president (who was already condemned by the Chamber of Deputies). Replacing one tyrannical regime with another is not a really good idea, but when Friedman was called for economic advise (just one time, and around 5 years later after the dictatorship started) he went.
schustergph 1 month ago
@schustergph Allende wasn't a tyrant. Despite a very amiable attitude towards the Cuban dictatorship, possible constitutional abuses, as well as working more and more against the 60-70 % who didn't vote for him in 1970, he was a follower of the Chilean constitutional tradition. Certainly parliament (an elected body) had voted in favor of unseating him (a fact hardly ever pointed out) it didn't have the constitutional right to, no more than Bohner/Reid can call a vote against Obama.
pajfarfar 3 weeks ago
@pajfarfar
"Allende wasn't a tyrant. Despite (...) possible constitutional abuses (...) he was a follower of the Chilean constitutional tradition."
You do see the irony in that statement, dont you?
Allende (and the militant parts of his regime) violated the chilean constitution and broke the chilean laws.
LibertyRealm 3 weeks ago
@locolatino11
"Freidman Helped kill 30 000 people in Chile"
LOL!
LibertyRealm 1 month ago
@LibertyRealm yeah he is a real monster!
locolatino11 1 month ago
@locolatino11
You dont even know where Chile is, right?
LibertyRealm 1 month ago
@LibertyRealm I am from Chile and my parents where sentenced to prison without trial or charges... Friedmans ideal only survives when people dont have basic human rights....
locolatino11 2 weeks ago
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@locolatino11
"I am from Chile and my parents where sentenced to prison without trial or charges"
Im sorry for you but Friedman never advocated that.
"Friedmans ideal only survives when people dont have basic human rights"
And yet Chile now is a democratic republic with free markets and Cuba is still a dictatorship.... ironic.
LibertyRealm 2 weeks ago
@LibertyRealm That was Argentina. The Chilean junta's death toll was more like 3,000-5,000 (excluding/including all the "disappeareds", whose fates remain ambiguous). Strange, when you think of that almost nobody (outside Latin America) recognises the name "Videla" today (he's still alive, unlike his Chilean counterpart) whereas Pinochet is hardly unknown to anybody X-P
pajfarfar 3 weeks ago
@pajfarfar
The chilean military regime "death toll" was around 3.000, thats INCLUDING the "missing" that were around 1.500, the other 1.500 died in armed engagements during and in the months after the overthrow of the criminal Allende.
The argentinian military regime on the other hand killed around 30.000 people.
LibertyRealm 3 weeks ago
DESPIERTEN... VEAN EL DOCUMENTAL "LA DOCTRINA DEL SHOCK" SE LAS RECOMIENDO... NO CREAN LAS ESTUPIDECES DE ESTE DESCEREBRADO IGUAL QUE FRIEDMAN... LA TRISTEZA DE LOS "NOVEL" ES QUE SON ELLOS MISMOS AUTOPREMIANDOSE... PERO UNA GRAN CANTIDAD DE VECES, AL PASO DE LOS AÑOS, COMO SE VE AHORA... SALE QUE LAS MIERDAS QUE SALEN DE SUS CEREBROS, LEJOS DE AYUDAR AL MUNDO LO HUNDEN MÁS... ESTO ES MUY BUENO PARA LOS QUE TIENEN EL PODER Y EL DINERO... PARA LA MAYORÍA DE LA GENTE NO...
ODARTSURF 1 month ago
@ODARTSURF
Es NOBEL, imbecil.
LibertyRealm 1 month ago
Chomsky would destroy this guy in a debate
helpdonate1 1 month ago
@helpdonate1
Only way he'd win that debate is from putting Friedman to sleep from boredom! LOL!
GSkid2000 1 month ago
@helpdonate1 Chomsky WOULDN'T destroy this guy in a debate, he is good in his linguistic stuff, but his comments about economic affairs are baseless and stupid.
rapechristian 1 week ago
HA HA HA HA!
Ha Joon Chang people, Ha Joon Chang (and Chomsky) and you will never care what M. Friedman says ever again. Check the Youtube vid: why the world isnt flat, for starters
Auraruth8 1 month ago
@bbnatedogg I have yet to meet anybody who says that the quality of life has not improved, or has stayed the same since the dawn of capitalism. Are you implying that you think the standard of living has decreased? If so, what facts and figures are you basing this logic on?
magiadefutbol 1 month ago
@bbnatedogg You're portrayal of the the 19th century is essentially accurate, save one important observation. That period - which was laissez-faire in approach - facilitated the greatest increase in the standard of living for the ordinary man throughout all of history. Sure, working conditions weren't adequate, but that's by TODAY'S standards. You're lacking perspective. Conditions were even worse before capitalism was embraced, so what's your point?
magiadefutbol 1 month ago 2
@magiadefutbol That's qualitative! I can see your point in a way because, most of the people in Europe that migrated to the cities were peasant farmers, which didn't have great conditions. Whether or not the "standard of living increased more 4 the ordinary man than throughout history", is highly QUALITATIVE! Especially 4 people in America, which were the people I was referring to.
bbnatedogg 1 month ago
i want to know what he said lol.
MrBigEnchilada 1 month ago
Thanks, Milton.
alfredocx 1 month ago
communists are such losers. but they refuse to be losers. so what do they do? they don't try to outdo others (because they are losers) and just want to abuse them and steal from them, and then make sure everyone is a loser so they don't feel like losers any more. it's plain envy posing as an ideology.
topperheartramada 2 months ago
he was stupid and evil and they gave him the nobel prize for it.
Zatzzo 2 months ago
@Zatzzo yeah, he must have had a very low iq. and you ca just see the evil in him.
topperheartramada 2 months ago
@topperheartramada
his theories were proven wrong decades ago. but it will take at least another twenty years for all those idiots out there to realise.
Zatzzo 2 months ago
@Zatzzo Which one? About the idea of freedom? How do you prove it wrong?
topperheartramada 2 months ago
@topperheartramada
no, the one about free markets magically functioning.
Zatzzo 1 month ago
WHAT HE SAID IN END OF VIDEO?
Gustavo54918 2 months ago
SORRY FRIEDMAN, BUT "GO HOME" HAVE BEST VIDEO OF ALL TIME.
Gustavo54918 2 months ago
stupid people dont like freedom...or better yet are to ignorant to know the difference between freedom and tyranny.
BachGuitar3 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I help invent a car; shortly after releasing it, I tell the public my car is going to break down in a few years; the car breaks down; I am worshiped as an automotive expert. Insert the central banking system where I put cars and you have Milton Friedman. This man is overrated.
bodinian 2 months ago
one smart dude.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
*Oh no. It's high school all over again*
phat989 2 months ago
Friedman personifies grace. His face was priceless-- like he's just got to wait out this child throwing a petulant tantrum...
frithar 3 months ago
Milton Friedman is the hero of the individual who recognizes potential in himself.
marcparella 3 months ago 43
@marcparella totally agree with your comment.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I help invent a car; shortly after releasing it, I tell the public my car is going to break down in a few years; the car breaks down; I am worshiped as an automotive expert. Insert economics where I put cars and you have Milton Friedman. This man is overrated.
bodinian 3 months ago
@bodinian :with all the negatives votes you have recieved I would say you are not agreed with by anyone.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 On a video that is meant to praise someone, I instead criticize him. The intended audience of this video disagrees with me. This is something I expected, but did not allow to silence me. If FOX news was interviewing me, I would still give all of my honest Left-Wing opinions to them as well, with no expectation to be received positively by their audience either. It is a risk I am willing to take to get my voice out there, for I support Democracy. Enjoy your day.
bodinian 2 months ago
@bodinian I support Democracy as well. But since leftists and liberals only account for 20% of the American population, your negative votes mirrors that of the rest of the country when it comes to leftist views. Enjoy your day.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 Leftists and Liberals? 20%? I am intrigued how one can use numbers subjectively in the Republican party. The word Leftist is intentionally vague so that it may group together a large portion of the world, who have vastly different views among themselves, into one category; this makes slander more compact. While Liberals are only a portion of the Democratic party, the Democratic party is at least 31% of the population and Repubs are 29%. Milton had numbers to back him up at least.
bodinian 2 months ago
@bodinian : I am not part of the Republican Party, so your assumption is false, as are most assumptions based on no facts. 20% call themselves liberal, while 41% independent and 39% conservative. Not party affliations. And Leftist is not a vague term nor is conservative. They are what they are. Or a perhaps you aspire to the Clinton way of saying what the acutal meaning of "IS" is.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 Enjoy a great socialized resource and check the statistics out for yourself. You may refer directly to the Gallup poll for 2010, or go to Wikipedia on the Democratic party. I fear that your careless procurement of false statistics has greatly effected your credibility, in my eyes. I want someone like Milton, a man of intelligence and good debate skills, to go against, not someone who makes me have to pull out resources to prove is talking non-sense.
bodinian 2 months ago
@bodinian : well, then perhaps youtube is not the place for you. The Gallop poll,not a conservative rag is the source for the percentages. I fear that the careless inability to accept facts and or reality has greatly effected your credibility. If you cannot deal with the terms presented then perhaps you should visit only liberal websites that push the liberal propaganda that you evidently seem to be more perceptive too, along with the snobbish liberal attitude.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 Perhaps YouTube is not a place for intelligent debate, because my issue with your false statements comes off as a sign of my weakness, in your mind. I never said I was a Liberal and you have inferred that I was, just as I, perhaps mistakenly, inferred you were a Republican. It seems that this was pointless to begin with, as no valid points I make will penetrate your psyche to change your mind and nothing you make up will go through mine. We must go our separate ways. Shame really.
bodinian 2 months ago
@bodinian well, there is a difference between liberal and so forth. Republican infers to the party, which I am not. And yes, youtube is not the place for an IQ piss test.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 Enjoy your Friedman, enjoy your weasel words, enjoy it all now. For once you are dead you will have missed the opportunity to enjoy it. If this makes you happy, I will not interrupt. But do not harass me for I find solace in a different perspective. It only makes you appear insecure in your own, my friend.
bodinian 2 months ago
@bodinian I am very secure, both mentally,physically and financially. I find solace as well, but more so in the debunking of leftist drivel and communist/soclialist propaganda. Almost as sweet as candy to be true. My you find your own solace in the fantasy land of leftist and communist/socalist revisionism.
usaeagle1776 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 Someone else with a late reply to my old posts brought me back here again.I'm not a Socialist, if you somehow got that idea. But I respect Socialism as a valid economic structure that runs stable nations, not like the utopia you want to think of it as. You may as well say that a country with Spanish as its official language is a Utopian pipe dream when, in fact, there are plenty of examples of it in practical use.I don't get how supporting one position makes you ignorant of another
bodinian 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 I support Capitalism but I see both the benefits AND the flaws inherent in the system. To support something and to be a fanatic are not the same. If you are a Christian, you are not automatically required to think all other religions are full of shit. You may humbly disagree with their message but acknowledge their significance. Not everything is a battle. I disagree with Milton's crony ideology, and you call me a leftist for that. Don't shut out different views as always bad ones.
bodinian 2 months ago
@usaeagle1776 This is an example of a video that I agree with Milton on, /watch?v=be5Ty5tP8us&feature=related . I do not think all of his ideas are so bad, but by no means do I see his word as the end-all-be-all.
bodinian 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@usaeagle1776 Through my experience of studying both free-market economics and socialism I have come to the conclusion that those who advocate free-markets, or capitalism, define socialism very differently than those who advocate socialism itself, and vice-avers.
And that those who advocate socialism define capitalism very differently than those who advocate capitalism, and vice-avers.
We need to understand each others' philosophies before we just hate each other y'all.
bodinian 2 months ago
@bodinian solace? what the fuck. Telling. Socialism isnt an attempt at improving things, its a utopian religious style ideal to make you feel better about yourself. Leave the economy to people interested in reality, kthx bai.
DazedSpy2 2 months ago
@DazedSpy2 Oh my, I see you are a real expert on the subject. It is a shame you are here, locked up in the YouTube comments section of an obscure video, you should be out fixing all of the problems in our country. Go, now, while there is still time! We need your enlightenment in this world!
bodinian 2 months ago
These imbecile Scandinavian socialists were brought up on socialism and the idea of big government, and now they want to export that to the rest of the world victimizing all of us and telling us how stupid we all are for not wanting a collectivist society taken care of by the government from cradle to grave. Western propaganda when it comes to collectivism, has two sides, one is Israel, which preaches expansionism via the government, then you have Norway which preaches socialism via the state.
Otzmatron 3 months ago
@Otzmatron Yes.. Norway has what 6 million people? What would happen to them if they took the nanny care away? The prices for private care there is through the roof expensive.. And sub par, in spite of the garbage you hear about how great it is.. If socialists countries start collapsing (Italy, Greece, Spain etc...) you will see huge panic.. Look at Germany getting a taste of what we have here. Bailing out Greece? Like Tn bails out Ca.. I think collectivists should be collected. In the Atlantic
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
I love Milton Friedman. He's so cute. I just want to give him a hug. All the great ones were under-appreciated in their time.
dslkflkdsfskldfj 3 months ago
Milton Friedman is one of the most brilliant men to ever live.. Yes, he is hated by all morons..
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 I live a stones throw from sevral universities, and almost every student and teacher who is teaching or has studies in the field of economics reject his theories. Have you noticed that when they are used the have, in all cases, failed for the vast majority of the people of the countries they are used in, and only a very small group profits from it in the end.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 You have no clue of what you are talking about.. In the countries his theories have been used in they have thrived.. Secondly, I HAVE a degree in economics.. The reason why you find Keynesian economists in school and not in the REAL world is because they are ALL teachers NOT practitioners of economics.. None of them have had a job in the private sector.. They are ALL government employees. They depend on monetary policy that prints money to keep them in work and with retirement..
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 1) Your joking right? Chile 1974, Friedmans policies implemented, millions unemployed, poverty skyrockets to 40%, Russia 1992, same story, poverty rises to 50%, well above that under the communist party. Poland 1990, his policies are used, and even after trying to reverse it unemployment is still at 40%. UK 1982, unemployment triples after Thatcher paces anto-union policies.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 2) The US 1980-1990, top 1% income rises 73%, almost no change in all other brackests and lowerst 20% loses 5% of their income. Only 2 people would not see the failures of his policies, a mad man and an economist.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 those numbers are simply wrong. all income levels rose during reagan's presidency, the median household income rose more than 12%
Welsh77 3 months ago
@Welsh77 Median income may have rose, but it was only a significant amount for the top income bracket. The numbers I gave come straight from the IRA.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 IRA? guess u mean IRS. and i really don't care how rich the rich got, comparing everyone to the rich will always make you unhappy. there has always been a rich class in every society, the question is whether the common man is making progress. and the answer here is YES, which isn't natural throughout history and is not to be expected. we've accomplished alot, and we're ungrateful for what we have. all income levels rose. close the borders, youll see the distribution get more even
Welsh77 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Wrong completely and utterly wrong.. The Chilean economy was in the tank.. Today, if they had not implemented the free market principles that Milton set forth, long after Pinochet was gone, they would NOT have the economy they have.. They would be like Cuba or Venezuela.. So that you are saying is a bold face leftist propaganda bullshit lie.. I will no longer tolerate the leftist lying bullshit machine.. You want this country like an inner city that the leftists created? Fuck off
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 1) Interesting your mention Cuba and Venezuela, as Cube has the best economy of any Carabian nation (including Puerto Rico) as well as a health care system that is better then that of the US (but thats not saying much). And Venezuela has the largest middle class in Latin America, and even the rich are doing better now then they where in the 80s and 90s before the social-democratic revelution.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 1st off, if you think that Cuba has a great economy? Then you are not even remotely qualified to discuss anything.. Let's just let it go now shall we? You are pretty much insane.
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Did I say the economy was great? No, I said it was better then its neighbours, which if you actualy went to there you would now it to be true, oh wait thats right Americans are not allowed to go to places that their puppet dictators got overthrown in. Cuba may not be great, but its a hell of a lot better then Jamaica, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Puerto Rico, etc.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 And as compared to America? It is a shit hole and a half. Look we have 330 million people in our country. We have the highest standard of living by a long shot..1/5 of our middle class is wealthier than every single person in Germany..Where we went wrong is by adopting ANY of the socialist policies that has NOTHING to do with what America is all about. We are a productive free society that has been stopped by those like Obama.. It must and will return. If we have to rip it from you
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 1) Those same socialist policies are what created the middle class, or does getting payed 2$ a day for 12 hours work constitute the "Middle" class. And yes, the US does have a higher standard of living then Cuba, but it's still behind: Germany, Denmark, Norway, Canada, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, etc. If you looked into a history book you'd notice that all 1st world nations became strong at the same time as their socialist policies where used, not before.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 2) And if the US is so great, why is it that it has, only 3 times, been in the top ten in quality of life, and never been above 6. And if it's so great why is the poverty rate in the US the highest in the 1st world? And the highest in income inequality? Lowest in education AND health care to the point where even Cuba has a better one? And at the same time as Friedman's policies where put in place the rich saw their income rise but no one else did, and the poor saw it fall
dave19941000 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 3) and You think Obama is a Socialist? Don't insult me, he's center-right at best, at worst he's just another far right loon. His health care reform was so watered down it's the type of thing Bush would have passed, and 40% of Americans in polls said it did not go far enough in it's reform. And his jobs bill is nothing, comparing it to something like the New Deal is like comparing the Iraq occupation to the Marshal Plan, it's nothing but right wing bull in disguise.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Everything you said? Is a bullshit lie.. I really am not even going to respond to it it is so ludicrous.. The healthcare bill is going to end America.. That is why it is going down.. And people reject it because we can handle our own healthcare.. We need government OUT of it so competition can return and prices will be driven down.. Government fucks everything up always ALWAYS.. Only morons cannot see it.. GOODBYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Typical right winger, call names, make no real argument, and claim victory. You have not addressed any of the point I brought up. Also, in the US you get health care based on how much money you have, in every other 1st world country you get i bassed on your need, which, considering the millions of americans who can not afford health care, seems like a better deal then being left out to die. And if you want me to not respond to you, dont respond to me.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Yeah Karl Marx agrees with you so you have a moron that is on your side.. And no, there isn't anyone in the United States that goes without healthcare.. If someone is in serious need, the doctors take a Hippocratic Oath.. They must care for them.. And I am a guitarist.. I play guitar for a living.. Got it? I make well over 6 figures a year, own a beautiful home and have 3 cars... Nowhere else on earth is that possible.. And 280 million have their own insurance.. How many people P1
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 1) Oh you make 6 figures eh? So your admiting that you dont live the life style of the avarage american (the avarage income in $48 000). You are admiting to the fact you do not understand how the majority of americans live. Id like you to drive throught Northern Michigen or the Lower Ninth Ward and tell me the US is the best country to live in. Atleast in every other 1st world country everyone gets health care that is high in quality AND will not make you go bankrupt.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 2) Also, 280 million people covered in a country of 312 million is not something to be proud of, its something to be ashamed of. To say that something that works on the small scall can not work on a larger one is like when Soviets say their system only doesn work because it needs to be global to work. Economic-political models work just as well on the large scale as they do on the small scale. If you lived the life of the avarage person mabye youd have a realistic view.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 First off.. I have earned everything I have got.. Understand me? It wasn't handed to me, I had to be better than everyone else.. Wonders of the free market.. Getting paid according to your REAL value huh? So I make no apologies.. And the poor need help yes, but how? Well you brought it up so let's look at it.. In the inner cities such as Detroit, it is the FAULT OF GOVERNMENT.. They have taxed, sided with unions, and driven the entire economy into the ground by leftist policies P1
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (part 1) You earned it? Did you go to the same school as every other person in teh country, comming from the same household in the same income area as every person in the US? I dont think so. Did you know that almost every millionair and billionair who earned their money came from an upperclass family? I want you to take a real long look at the US, not the pritty horse whit that everyone sees, but the places where people live outside of Suburbia, and look at the people there.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 And for your information.. I came from a lower middle class family.. And I earned my here.. So did my brother and eventually my father.. And another thing you thief, I have NEVER taken a government handout.. I got through life just fine on my fathers health insurance and then my own when I got older and had that responsibility.. You are worthless if you are asking me or my neighbor to pay for your healthcare..
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 I never asked you to pay for my helth care, I myself come for an upperclass family, and I have everything to loose with universal health care, but you know what? For the vast majority, and by vast I mean about 85% of the country, Socialism is the better of evils when it comes to Socialism and Capitalism, because in Socialism the workers, the people who create the wealththe rest of the population uses, own the means of production, which makes companies more efficient.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Isn't it funny the places you mentioned are ran by leftists.. Your friends!! How you help is charity.. It saves trillions in tax dollars and it goes directly to the people who TRULY need it.. Secondly, not ONE of the places who have the crazy universal healthcares citizens could afford it without help.. Shotty care, at shotty distribution.. Now, onto the 280 million people.. Did you see the images for the people on black Friday? These are people who are clammering over a P2
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@dave19941000 2000 flat screen tv.. Do they appear to be poor? Or in need? These are the same people that are screaming for their healthcare to be paid by me, yet they are getting expensive items for Christmas? Guess what? They could money manage and afford health insurance for their entire family with what they were fighting for.. And to finish this all off?Their isn't one single country that is socialist that isn't in real trouble..That is how the EURO got created in the first place, by design
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@dave19941000 See, I really cannot understand this.. I have no idea of your age, but my guess is you are really really young.. You bought into the propaganda that government cares for you or are interested in your welfare.. They are not.. It is true of every system in the world.. Crony Capitalism is ours, Socialism is the rest of the worlds.. To where government controls things.. Which means the richest? ARE IN GOVERNMENT.. And are there for that reason and that reason alone!!
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 Considering the economic problems of Corny Capitalism, and the fact that for well over 85% of the population Social-democracy is the better system, Im going to take the lesser of the two evils. And your right, Socialism would not work in the US, you people cant understand how the system works in the first place. (the problem in the EU has to do with a combination of banking malpractice and bad interconetions in their economy) American Corny Capitalism only helps the rich.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 We have it hear.. It is not better.. I have traveled the world and seen it.. The free market is for the people.. Equality and social justice only benefits those in cahoots with government.. It is seen in every single country I have been to.. I wouldn't trade America for one other nation.. I could only imagine my life somewhere else.. And a heads up? People didn't come here by the millions because they wanted government handouts.. They came here for opportunity. CASE CLOSED.
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 And again, all youve done is claimed to see the world (takea look at your back yard and look at the parts of the US youd rather not first), but If you had ever set food in Western Europe or Japan, or Australia, or Canada, or New Zealand, then you would not be saying the US system is better. Yes people left Europe by the millions, but it was in the days regular people could not own land and wages where low, back when the US was the Socialist one.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 No it doesn't.. Socialism creates a class of people who rely on what crumbs the government leaves them.. Monopolies are created which hurt the people by not creating competition to give choice.. Then your government works overtime to "sell" socialism to the people.. Which is underhanded.. You get a class of people who survive NOT live.. They live off the crumbs from the government's back.. The government official do not play by the same rules as the citizen. They have Part 1
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 1) Your argument about why Socialism is bad could, if used word for word, but substituting the word Socialism for Corporations, discribe Capitalism. And about ditch digers maing as much as doctors, your mixing up Socialism with Communism, which are as different as Capitalism is to both of them. In Socialism the workers own the means of production, anything else can go either way and be called Socialism..
dave19941000 3 months ago
@SuperGuitarman69 (Part 2) The problem is balance, just like some European countries are to Socialist (Greece, Italy), the US is to Capitalist, allowing itself to have an education and health care system comparable to 3ed world countries, as well as income inequality. Germany and the Nordic countries on the other had have found the balance needed, and they should be viewed as the examples, not the to Socialist Southern Europeans or the Communists, and especialy not Friedmans followers.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Look.. I am getting bored with this.. You do not understand economics.. Yet you are arguing with a guy that wouldn't have a degree if he didn't study economics because it is my major. America has socialism.. Our schools are socialist.. Medicare and Medicaid are both socialist policies.. So criticizing our schools and Medicare and Medicaid? Isn't in your favor. Because they are socialist just like yours..They need to be free market.. Roads and military is all we need from government
SuperGuitarman69 3 months ago
@dave19941000 You are making a fool of yourself the US is socialist. Do you see that video on the right of the screen with greenspan in it "there is no free market" watch it. Money manipulation by the fed, to prop up the corporate and banking interests, who lobby an overly inflated govt, for benefits that they shouldn't be able to dole out, are reaping all the benefits of the once very prosperous nation. Trade deficits along with an inflated service sector highlights how weak the US economy is!
KevinSheerin 3 months ago
@KevinSheerin Lack of free trade does not equal socialism. The US is corporatist (which is basicly Libertarian but with the government helping the corporations). Every country has some socialism (exept for Somalia), just as all have some form or free-market, the difference is balance, and the US is far to much of the Free-market side of the balance for its own good. After all the past 30 years have shown that the liberalization of the US economy has done more harm then good.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 give me the excessive free market influences that are causing the downfall of the US then.
KevinSheerin 3 months ago
@KevinSheerin The lowering of teriffs with China as well as other Asian countries which have made it more profitable to produce manufactured goods overseas which has destroyed the american industry that was the backbone of the economy. A strong manufacturing sector means a strong economy, and the state of the US economy has gone down at the same time and speed as industry being moved to Asia and Mexico.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 the lowering of tarrifs was lobbied for by corporate interest so that they could move their manufacturing base to a lower cost base and have no import penalty to the US.That is 1 of the strange times where tarrifs should never have been imposed in the 1st place but upon their eventual removal the underlying issues of govt intervention in the free market rose their head. American producers would never have moved their manf base if wage inflation caused by the fed had never occured!
KevinSheerin 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Also as i states already thegovt in th us has inflated to a point where business can influence the govt for their own interests and incentives although capitalism gets you to the point where big business can use the wealth they have created to lobby govt for incentives the point is that govt should never have the ability to dole out the benefits that corporate interest lobby them for, that is not a free market system anymore it is a socialist one!
KevinSheerin 3 months ago
@KevinSheerin And if the Us does have socialism (if you call it that, the form the US has is a twisted version when compared to the rest of the 1st world), then why not try to modle it after that of the Nordic coutnries? It has led them to having the highest qualities of life in the world, as well as stable economies and good income equality, a sharp contrace to the US which has only been in the top 10 a few times, has a fragile economy and has 3ed world levels of income inequality.
dave19941000 3 months ago
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KevinSheerin 3 months ago
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@dave19941000 I don't know about the nordic socio economic model but the reasons that the US can not use the models you advocate AND be as prosperous is because the US is far to population dense for it to be a perpetual drain on the global economy. The Us currently has almost double the population of the nordic economies AS A WHOLE on food stamps and socialism is what has put those people in that position!
KevinSheerin 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Actually the only way that the Nordic countries were able to provide that high standard of living was through markets and capital formation. The socialism which is just using tax men with guns pointing at people's head is inefficient compared to voluntary public choices such as charities, simply because you are letting the government (which is a monopoly) take over other functions of society as a monopoly.
Baccanaso 3 months ago
@Baccanaso Charity funding social programs does not work. When you look at who gives how much, for people making under 100 000$ each year the loss you make will mean your more likely to give money to charity, with people making more less likely with the exeption of the ultra-rich like Bill Gates who can afford to give half their money away and still have more money then then know what to do with. You get what you pay for, thats why american social programs are as bad as they are.
dave19941000 3 months ago
@dave19941000 Actually people give to charities and would even give more given that they weren't being taxed to death by our government. Also, the money that your government takes in barely sees the light to day. The average welfare recipient should be receiving more than 100k a year, obviously they don't, so no, gov "social" programs have proven that they do not work, and do not help people get back up on their feet. Also, I don't care what your motive is, you don't force people to pay.
Baccanaso 3 months ago 28
@Baccanaso You are a fucking chump. Yes, if we didn't tax anybody then everybody would donate it and all the social ills would be solved by charities. That's been tried before. It was called the 19th century in America, you dip shit. Go read a fucking history book and see what life for the average person was like. If you just leave it up to people to do the right thing then, that's what they'll do! Right? How do morons like you believe this shit?
bbnatedogg 1 month ago
@bbnatedogg aww did your panties get in a bunch? Herp Derp I want the state to force people to fund some programs that I think are right. Again the govs philosophy is "Throw enough shit on the wall so at least some of it will stick" Fucking inefficiency at is finest. Also you are a giant fucking idiot to think that somehow we will go to the tech conditions of the 19th century. Ergo, get that dick out of your mouth and actually write something that makes sense you fascist piece of donkey shit.
Baccanaso 1 month ago
@Baccanaso Did I say the "tech conditions"?? You really must be a fucking short busser to think that's what I meant. I meant the political-economic conditions where people had no safety net, no labor rights, lived in putrid slums, and huge monopolies ruled the major industries. Oh wait, a putrid slum probably doesn't sound that bad to you considering you spent 9 months in your filthy, whore mother's rat-infested, hairy, smelly taco! Pull your head out of your ass, you will see better
bbnatedogg 1 month ago
@bbnatedogg aww you're resorting to insulting my mother now, it's personal for you, butthurt much? The safety net again is decentralized to either states or different forms of charities. Oh, and the monopolies were sanctioned by the Gov. God you are dumb! But some fascist kunt fuck like you wouldn't know anything about live and let live after all right? P.S. A worker for Ford in the 1910's would make 2500 today adjusted for inflation...yeah, learn some econ you stupid fucking obamabot ignoramus
Baccanaso 1 month ago
You're so fucking retarded that you make all my arguments for me.2,500 adjusted for inflation?Is that supposed to be good?Maybe you should spend less time pontificating about your incoherent bullshit and go back to English class.You can't even fucking spelling or put a proper sentence together!The monopolies were eventually sanctioned by the government in the 19th century but, they didn't start out that way. They didn't need government sanction to build monopolies, just to not lose them.
bbnatedogg 1 month ago