Integral "Third-Way" Politics

[jerkdoggaa]

I wonder how many blunts were smoked before this meeting

[integraleric]

I'll be sure to check out your channel. thanks.

[bass109]

LORD JESUS IS KING OF ALL WORLD!

[MrCuntyballs2U]

Too heady..... Where is the heart?.......show me an intellectual and I will show you a coward

[CandyLeeLong]

@MrCuntyballs2U

The heart is just a muscle.

Compassion = Understanding = Knowledge.

Love happens in the mind.

Cognition is being able to take the perspective of other and in this way cognitive development is necessary for moral development.

If you can't see the other then you can't love them.

You cannot deny reason with reason.

[MrCuntyballs2U]

@CandyLeeLong Good effort......half right

[LooksAeterna]

12:21 It is difficult to get healthy integral politics to operate, but not to get 2nd tier power holders into power, because the internationally operating bankers have been on 2nd for centuries - or do you actually believe the politicians on TV are in power ? Could you be THAT naive ?

The problem is only how to rid us of pathology ! Those problems are not addressed at all: we have to abolish 1. the interest system, and mainly 2. economic values as part of women's choice of sex partners.

[LooksAeterna]

Notice mainly how the guy in the beginning asks about hidden power holders, that is NOT the politicians and public actors, and Wilber simply disregards that most important of all aspects altogether and answers as if the other guy hadn't asked that - unless when speaking of "wise" he means that shadow gov :O

And of course, if he wants to have his books respected by the Clintons and their likes, of course he has to buy into their mainstream myths and participate in mainstream propaganda himself.

[LooksAeterna]

7:00 They are interested in integral politics in a pathological way. Wake up, Ken ! Second tier power holders are interested not in equal opportunity to develop up to 2nd for all, but to build (!) on this planet a biotope for those already 2nd AND rich to stick among themselves.

You're - consciously or unconsciously - the ideological mechanic for a plutocracy !

[LooksAeterna]

2:06 "In today's world of transparency"

What ??????? "...of obfuscation" would make more sense.

[TheLittleBlackBear]

30:23

"We are the oldest democracy on the planet... and that is not something you want to tamper with lightly; and yet if we don't, I think we're going to get stuck with some of these real, real problems... about the transparency of justifying Integral in a world that claims to be egalitarian... that's something to think about."

Integral Politics still subscribes to the premise that 10% of the people can justifiably rule over 90% of the rest... Integral World, Matrix 2.0, gotta wake up, son!

[TheLittleBlackBear]

Ken Wilber's "House of Wisdom" = Illuminati?

[TheLittleBlackBear]

why is it that my own depression seems so inextricably linked with the economic depression of the times?

[TheLittleBlackBear]

"Every personal problem is rooted in society, and every one of humankind's problems is rooted in the individual" - Enoch Page, my anthropology teacher :D

[TheLittleBlackBear]

if you want to see orange and green get together, watch The Liberation of Canary Wharf!

[TheLittleBlackBear]

10:15 "Three Houses"

1) Illuminati 2) Masons 3) Magicians

11:45 "how do you dare justify a ruling elite that is developmentally smarter than 90% of the population? I don't know, Ken, how? It's a real problem isn't it!

[TheLittleBlackBear]

i'm intrigued by his reptilian arms ;)

[TheLittleBlackBear]

if you like this, google: Everything is Ok, and the Love Police :)

[tetherball23]

I am pretty sure he called women an "ethnic minority" at 15:55.

[LooksAeterna]

@tetherball23 Yes you are right.

Of course, women are the majority since men die sooner. They are also in power since power involves not having to work hard to get influence, and also their voting power is greater. They also are richer since they make most of the purchasing decisions and spend also the men's money, not just their own. etc. etc.

People like Wilber should read stuff like "The Myth of Male Power" by Warren Farrell. Google that title along with the word "excerpts". First link.

[HumansAreAnimals]

@LooksAeterna

While I'm not in agreement with your opinion, I'm really into actually reading what other people have to say and trying to be open minded about it.

I'd like to read this work, but I was wondering if you could answer a question for me first. Does Warren Farrell take account of the jaw-dropping rates of violence against women? Does he have a "take" on this? Just curious about how holistic the man is viewing the subject.

[LooksAeterna]

@HumansAreAnimals "Does Warren Farrell take account of the jaw-dropping rates of violence against women? "

1. Naturally he does because Farrell is a well known ferminist.

2. The violence against women - while jaw dropping - pales against the violence against men.

3. The mere presence of violence proves the absence of power because real power makes violence unnecessary.

4. You remark is irrelevant here.

5. Why ask ? LOOK:

warrenfarrell. org/ TheBook/ index. html

Remove spcs.

[tetherball23]

According to Wilber: "The founding father's replaced slavery with freedom from that" HA! Freedom for WHO? Nothing could be further from the truth. The majority of the founders owned slaves! They did not give freedom to women either!

[tetherball23]

Wow. Wilber thinks that the founding fathers were beyond ethnocentrism? What abstract world does he live in? America was built on slavery and the destruction of indigenous peoples - staunch ethnocentrism according to people who know the real history. The founding fathers just wanted to control their own money, be independent, but they sure as hell were not beyond ethnocentrism. Ken embarrasses himself in this video. Funny how he "steps back" and doesn't really answer the question.

[yoseph89]

hey ken, i know how to justify it, talk to me

[pocushocus24]

'we must take responsibility for our lives'. This one of the sloguns that really pisses me off- New Labour used 'rights and responsiblitys'. People have ALWAYS been responsible for their lives, throughout time. But sometimes markets take away our ability to make rational choices. The third way tries to be a philosophy- it is not, a load of smart words for a theory that isn't that smart at all.

[pocushocus24]

The third way is not a third way at all It is just another strategy for capitalism. Instead it involves the growing authoritarianism of the state on individuals after the catastrophe of truly setting people free from the constraints of society and the state (neoliberalism). That is about as far as the socialism of it gets- not the redistribution of wealth but an ever narrowing definition of freedom "You are as free as we tell you"

[taboosun]

Big mind is fun!

[taboosun]

I have often wondered for a while now how much of humanity can really make it and connect to this one basic intrinsic place that is timeless.

Ken asked a very good question here about how we justify the 10 percent believes that are smarter than 90 percent of the population.

I think that was one of the most important question I have heard thus far in my life, no joke. I like Ken, there is a certain genuine energy signature to him when he speaks that brings me to I amness.

[PsykodelikCyoldier]

interior and exterior cause is Free Will and Determinism. Balance is the most supreme.

[jackinla8]

dirty hippie

[MaBu888]

Especially if you don't read the video description and click the link for more information.

[MaBu888]

He don't do no street drugs if that's what you're wondering.

[davidspoo]

I feel like I missed the part where he explained his color chart. I have no idea what his colors mean. DO you?

[IntegralNaked]

Hey davidspoo--all the colors are described in the video description.

[topstot]

'I hardly accept the moto that government is best that governs least...government is best that governs not at all'

(Thoreau)

[arsewipe24]

nonsense

[MaBu888]

Read concurrent books....

[TheObnubilators]

i realize that it probably has its merits. i like the metaphor of a map when talking about spiral dynamics. this doesn't undermine it's importance in anyway, for we need maps in order to navigate. thus we need something like spiral dynamics to literally navigate reality in it's totality. What I'm most interested in though is how to integrate something like SD into the human being, and ultimately what it looks like as a finished project.

[MaBu888]

That same interest grabs me too.

[rmfurr]

I really enjoy Ken Wilber's Integral Theory for personal growth. But I really don't see it helping much in politics. The interior view is more enlightened, and has nothing to do with Left or Right. In psychology it's known as the "locus of control" and people who have an internal locus of control are much happier and successful in whatever they choose to do. It's commonly taught in most positive thinking ideas. We must take responsibility for our lives.

[TheObnubilators]

brilliant budding ideas there at the end

[TheObnubilators]

"it's easier to unite red and amber(republicans), than it is to unite green and orange (democrats). The republicans are gonna win"

Hey Obama your so fine your so fine you blow my mind, Hey Obama! Hey Obama!

[TheObnubilators]

when it comes down to it, I love this man

[lolll666]

i just want to point out that in the "Red section," you mention Ultimate Fighting contests. first of all, it's not called MMA, and anyone who watches it can instantly point out someone who has no clue what they're talking about when they call it "UFC" or "Ultimate fighting."

secondly, there have been over 50 fixed rules for something like 10 years.

this tells me you didn't research at all, which tells me that you probably have poor research for everything else not within your experience.

[hrssmntpanda]

people research what proves their points. He could have called it "Nu-wrestling" for all I care. the trick is to not get offended when someone underappreciates something that you care about.

Citing his misuse of UFC (which I didn't notice, though I was doing dishes) and choosing to abandon an avanue of wisdom on a singular basis is poor reasoning. Accept the fact that he misused it, but listen to what else he's right about. If you aren't sure, look it up yourself.

[georgeedmondson]

k-dub is dope as hell. thanks for the post!

[mmcplaid2086]

I wonder what color/level of consciousness realizes that the most integral and healthy society would be one in which there is no government. What colors/levels of consciousness would be required for most people in a society in order for people to not cling to the notion of government as necessity?

Anybody have any thoughts?

[MaBu888]

After turquois or even during turquois.

[TheObnubilators]

If you are speaking of like modern day anarchists, than I would say green. "Just love everything and all will be alright. Who needs government when everything is love"- yeah green for me.

But if you speak of an experience of society where we've "evolved to such a point where we kind of transcend the notion of government (which I think you do with your reference of integral), yeah all about turquois and beyond, as MaBu said.

[mmcplaid2086]

I was referring to a society in which there is no monopoly of force that the general public deems "legitimate." Dispute resolution and protection services would likely remain, but they operate on an open market like anything else and are not paid for via theft. So, yes, transcending the notion of government as an ethical or effective approach for solving problems.

[TheObnubilators]

coolio, i like it

[TheObnubilators]

but I hate speaking like this because it's obviously not so cut and dry. As Wilber says in the vid, it's an extremely complex issue. And he wrong about the turnout of the election, so even he doesn't have some kind of infallible insight over everything.

Sometimes I feel like spiral dynamics is complexifying black and white. It's so difficult for me to take seriously sometimes. My mind doubts too much manybe

[MaBu888]

Spiral dynamics is very concise and very over-arching, preliminary... and very simplified... although it has become more complex as a concept since the days of Graves.

[mmcplaid2086]

"In today's world of transparency, how do you actually get people with higher levels of consciousness... into office, when their only justification is, 'I'm better than y'all?'"

Ken Wilber is kind of like a Federalist, only in regard to spirituality/consciousness, instead of class.

[davecourtney08]

Ken Wilber majorly sidestepped the original question about the people with the real power that get no coverage in the press and remain anonymous. He looked really uncomfortable with it and never actually answered it. He just continued on with his theories and dealt with it just as a politician would. Disappointing.

[MaBu888]

Yes he is a pan dit.

[EricOerinToo]

I think that your assessment of Obama's spiritual and intellectual underpinnings underestimates the situation. Obama will be making transformative change and raising the consciousness of the public Paulo Freire style.

[apks2004]

Right On the money Video!

[Yoopta]

Ken Wilber says himself that he is communicating to %5 of the Population . So yeah 95% of viewers will not understand. Simply KW is one onto it guy. Very wise offering solutions that could help with the future destiny of our spieces, very well respected .

[MaBu888]

Off topic, I'd like to know why he seems 10 years older than in previous videos? He's extremely groggy but energetic at the same time...

[TheObnubilators]

yeah I noticed that too. I know he had some type of stroke I think in 06, I think. I like the way he looks though

[delerium2k]

Hillary isn't exactly integral imo. An integral presidency would be a cross between Paul, Kucinich, Gravel and Nader. A truly integral politics would be enlightened anarchy, at least as I see it.

[greenalphabet]

thanks Ken for some awesome Sat (in your writings), a womb with a view

[mrfatd]

i am speechless, this mind stupefying nonsence is just mysticism combined with pseudophilosophy and ppl who take this garbage seriously are very stupid

[MaBu888]

That's not a valid criticism.

[rocktheflow]

stupid because this sort of stuff is really quite mentally challenging, and you do not understand it, or stupid because calling people names simply makes you feel better about yourself?

[mrfatd]

i do not like insulting ppl and its not that mentally challenging so neither. perhaps i need to read him

[arsewipe24]

social engineering.full stop

[rocktheflow]

oh you mean like what the media does?

[arsewipe24]

good point

[rocktheflow]

think about it this way, this guy is challenging modern thought. That can only be a good thing ;)

[arsewipe24]

modern nonthought

[rocktheflow]

because clearly these people aren't thinking... *rolls eyes*

[arsewipe24]

but it's plainly bullshit

[rocktheflow]

I'm still waiting to hear any actual reason from you as to why... rather than just putting it down. So unless you can give an intelligent, constructed argument as to why this is bullshit, I'm more likely to lean towards the fact that you simply don't understand it.

[arsewipe24]

yeah,your right.i'm not intelligent enough....

I'd say fabians would be smug.and how do you measure these levels of conciousness?

[rocktheflow]

they're stages of development of awareness, realistically. Just like every other form of self-development, it's measured by others' experience, compared with your own.

[arsewipe24]

so people who live life are on a different stage to those who are into self development and group analysis?

ps is tony blair one?

[rocktheflow]

Well what you've insinuated there is really quite an insult. What you're saying is anyone who participates in this kind of ideal, isn't living life fully. I'd have to argue that it's quite the contrary. I have no idea about Tony Blair, never looked into his beliefs/studies.

[arsewipe24]

what's insulting is that people at "higher stages" will run our future with the so called left and right melding(as was planned).the permanant revolution.

"the propagandist must get the unsuspecting subject to accept two distinct and opposing concepts or ideas at the same time.this is known as cognitive dissonance.....a continuous victim of a fabian society generated propoganda barrage designed to induce c.d.The unsuspecting ,well meaning and sincere literary elite has aided this process"

[MaBu888]

I'm interested in the source of that interesting and relevan quote, arsewipe, please. THX in advance.

[j0hnwi11iams]

I think maybe he is missing the 300 lb gorilla. The reason why people have such unbalanced views is because they are ignorant and misinformed, mostly by leaders of social organizations that have a vested interest in maintaining tensions with the outside world. The republicans are scam artists, plain and simple, and the rubes have fallen for it.

[MaBu888]

What kind of physical ailments does Ken Wilber have in this video?

[vicinatlanta]

I love Ken Wilber!

[racetoinfinity]

Ken's comments about Dems having 2 camps, green & orange, and Repubs having 2, orange & blue are right on target and easy to understand, once one gets what the color memes represent. I think this is a very useful addition to our political analysis now, and intend to link to it. I'd say green-progressives hate corporatism more than capitalism per se. See DVD & book "The Corporation" I consider corporations to be basically path. (red-egoic) orange since given rights as persons 150 yrs ago.

[racetoinfinity]

For "blue", I meant to say "amber"; KW replaced the SD level designation color "blue" with "amber" some time ago.

[kenjifoo]

personally i like to add, that as a scizoid kafkaesk type with totally mad warchild parents, the understanding of levels is of huge value in understanding where my issues are comming from and finding a solution or getalong, as in: lord gimme the power to change whats changeable and the wisdom to tell them apart. if you dont get the value of colors, you never tried to solve a social/psychological problem, an that is to "gooey" (sic XXi_ldNRNtM), even for me. its like pre-orange. fuck flatland DSM

[MaBu888]

We must find out how we can transform the flatlandish pluralists who think all views are equally right and useful, into people who see more objectively the evolution of consciousness and the evolution of culture. Fuck the flatland so much until it's fertility is apparent - the cause of integral consciousness to arise!

[kenjifoo]

about colors, part 1: level coding aplies to all lines of intelligence, most interestingly those that are part of your 'self', like typological functions.

the concept of "moral" is just another line, more or less a distinct one or rather one that manifests in the realm of empics, that is in behavior and the abstract evalutation of it.

[kenjifoo]

about colors, part 2: color coding those levels is highly abstract and complicated, because different lines in one person are usualy on different levels, but tasks are often acomplished with several lines at once or alternating. if colorcoding fails, its usualy not the fault of the attempt to do colorcoding, but the lack of perceived horizontal sepperation of lines or tasks by the person who does the coding.

[kenjifoo]

about colors, part3: abstraction skills depend on both a certain line, and a level, so here is a good reason why people are not so much ideologically against colorcoding, but perceive that it is just factualy false, in a given special case. people are more or less tollerant to vagueness in linguistical expression, for different reasons. i love vagueness, i can dance to it, and i often understand vague people exactly, if they think fairly exactly, but in a nonlinguistical realm of thoughts.

[kenjifoo]

about the tolerance for vagueness or brilliant abstractions. it differs in for reasons like that: green folks fear that orange+amber folks use it to tear them down, as individuals who learn by experiance and want judged by their potential, not by some vague science of the employmentagency. prickly types, as allan watts calls them (see video XXi_ldNRNtM) or orange folks fear worlddomination by the inquisition. fears that are justified by experience, but not integral perceptions.

[DonkeyofHeaven]

I find the vernacular of the color coding to be a real turn off.

[sacca7]

We rank people all the time by their skills, a pro basketball player is different from someone playing in a community league. Here the color coding is representative of levels of moral development. As in the Burmese government is probably at a low level of red as they still don't know the value of being more open. They don't see it yet. As one understands, there is no need to point it out, so some still get upset that hierarchy exists. thanks for your note.

[greenalphabet]

Joseph Cambell doesn't charge $

Democracy was a theory as Integral is a theory. Democracy implemented by people with--EGOs--gets the democracy we so disppasionately talk about today.Integral Naked is run by people with--EGOs so it is natural/unavoidable it is and will suffer the same follies, maybe with with different labels and different rationalizations.Can a person looking at hypocrisy transcend and include Intergral Naked even if Integral Naked won't do the same for them on their website?

[curtisefontaine]

thank god for these videos

[ArgonTheAware]

It seems that getting an Intregral Framework past an electorate is giving them an amber reason, an orange reason, a green reason to think it's a good idea since they won't accept only a turquiose reason.

Since only 10% would accept the goals they way they are, it would take putting them is different perspective to go along with the motivations of at amber or at orange or at green to get agreement on them.

[greenalphabet]

Does an integral politician of the 21st century needs to speak turquoise:Does this mean to speak all three languages of of amber,orange and green and maybe even red in one conversation?Do politicans already

play this game,but not with the integrity of integral(turquoise)or maybe with it and it is not seen at work?Ineluctable media has changed the landscape of perception as all groups at all levels listen to the same message at the same time?Is assimilation of integral ideas slowly occuring now?

[greenalphabet]

Integral of Contingency. Intergral Naked web site charges $/month to join with levels. It reminded me of classes in society; a dominant hierarchy with perks at different levels (is this hypocrisy--is it transcending and including only those who can pay? blasphame! tongue in cheek ;) . I think the Intergral Naked web site is only a part of Intergral Naked. Youtube is Integral Naked and transcends and includes without a monthly fee, so do free librarys with Kens books, and conversations

[kenjifoo]

by excluding jobless folks they exclude manly infrared robots like myself, plus some beige folks. they are not keeping first meme people out. thats what SEEMS to be their intention and if they were doing that, i 'd be okay with it. but they take money from red folks, to finance their second tier elite, in return allowing them to feel like a part of it. its like selling letters of indulgence to poor devils. so its not elietish enough to be "fair" lol. (trying to make a ponint, sort of ironic)

[kenjifoo]

but the TRUTH is - if you ask wilber, they are not making you pay for beeing part of a second or third tier elite, but for NOT flodding you with the same BS flatland info that you would get in any other community. sounds fair. he explains that in videos on this channel

[kenjifoo]

personally it think, there should be free integral comminities. if no one pays them, then by the logic explained in the other comment, they will not have the resources to exclude flatland BS. no quality controll. but that is just what i want - for free. they could still offer what any other free BS flatland group offers: bandwidth. id rather have a free flatland BS community with some integral spirit in it, than without

[kenjifoo]

no matter how fair it is though, it is weak. it is just another frelling product. like "pay us and get the (r)evolution - on streaming video" but teasing videos are all we will be getting, cause there wont be a (r)evolution, IF every (r)evolutionary wants to be paid, for not beeing another source of flatland BS and for still talking to anyone but the other solid third 2nd/3rd tier buddy.

but they arent realy like that, they talk for free. that is, if you can find them, and invade their place.

[kenjifoo]

on a sidenote, 1: im sorta sick of hearing green beeing described as it appears in ordinary folks, istead as it is formed by its archetype. true archetypal green in my book takes progressively responsibiliy for interiors - for feelings. thus its not bitchin about beein hurt by the outside. its red n amber and beige hiding in green-talk, that bitches about insults and goes to trial.

[kenjifoo]

on a sidenote, 2: green does not need to abandon organge, just because it lacks complete visionlogik. it may rather confuse its recent orange values with its current pluralism, and therefore eats shite, cause deserving full load of shite for beein just human is somethin that you always have to consider, espeacialy since there always is lots of orange argument for that. im green by altitude, just getting started with floding the whole horizon in green, rape me now. i dont even vote any more.

[kenjifoo]

i mean, its a perspektive right? how can i not be deserving doom through the fists of a red stalking cop.

[kenjifoo]

why is it that all green folks that i know that act like wilber describes green boomers have never been rational in the first place on a broader horizontal widht than the ability to use a mac? personaly i started only deepening my rationaly in terms of horizontal broadness, after i got pluralistic (green) enough, to allow it to contradict blue emotional needs. its a typology thing. how a type grows, acceses its inferior functions for the first time, at the possilbe cost of a secondary function.

[kenjifoo]

being mostly infrared as a whole person, I wonder if my willigness to vote for a house of people higher than me, implies that i cant be higher than blue, as a motivational beeing - despite beeing yellow by intuition - given wilbers statement, that green altitude folks would not accept that. my only worry is, that i can not personaly inspect the integrity of of high folks, cause i cant see their ways. i can only inspect folks up to a late green _altitude_, at best.

[kenjifoo]

me can has pride in mad english paragraph construct

[kenjifoo]

> "i can only inspect folks up to a late green _altitude_, at best. "

sure there is a tendency to mistrust the ones you can not look through, but that does not mean you dont vote for them, given that you can trust in the untrostworthyness of the alternative folks, the pre-green altitude green preachers.

i m not saying this to oppose wilbers view, that a 'green population' support is not going to happen anytime soon. but i just think, that is only because green is not as green as it talks.

[atomsmasher23]

Thanks Ken, great stuff, especially the last ten minutes, keep it coming!

[Satori1800]

thanks for great video:)