It's so strange that Christianists approach total strangers and proselytize, by inviting them to church, etc. It's not like atheists and agnostics walk up to strangers and invite them to drop by their agnostic discussion groups, conferences or rallies. (Well, not that there even are that many, actually...but still.) Weird. And rather insulting.
Planting a seed of doubt is all we can do and it is powerfull!! More often than not it will be the first time that they have ever even heard an opposing opinion. I like to ask people if they believe in god. When they say yes I ask them why??Most people just return with a blank stare. They have no idea why they believe.
I actually have told a Christian womens outreach donation collector at walmart that Jesus Christ was a myth and all religion is superstition. She had a bewildered look on her face and I almost felt bad for her but I figure it's not my fault people have been suckered by con artist theologians.I don't hesitate to say the truth no matter how hurtful it is.
Good to see you back. I had a productive discussion with 2 cute mormon girls who came knocking. I responded right away with the lack of evidence. I've never seen that result in a wall. Usually they bring up their book, and then we can talk about why it's no more evidence than "Cat in the Hat". I've found that if I have a pleasant demeanor and ask questions about their religion, they can't justify shutting down the conversation...and so it continues, and I get many "seeds of doubt" in their minds
@sugelanren "I don't get it. Why would you want to convert people away from their beliefs? Is "live and let live" really such a jaded notion these days?"
I find this quite a silly question, just ask yourself why religious people want to convert people to theri beliefs ?
Maybe because they are convinced that it's the truth ?
maybe because they care about people living a better and truthful life ?.
@sugelanren Funny you mention the "live and let live" philosophy. I agree... I will stop trying to "convert" Christians just as soon as homosexuals can marry in every state. Sorry, but I can't let Christian bigotry "live and let live". I will let it live once no more wars are started just because different variations of sky daddies.
@mrsalmon1984 Surely your problem is with the government, not christians? We have Gay civil partnership here, so it's not a big issue for us. I know your country is a bit backwards that way, but it would be equally backward to blame all christians for the fault of legislation me thinks.
@sugelanren You are right. My problem is with the government, but if you lived in redneck hell (I'm in Oklahoma) you would see that religion controls our political system. You were right, but I don't think you saw the connection I was trying to make... Christian groups lobby our politicians so they can get their "Christian morals" made into laws. Granted I should have elaborated more. Peace my friend :-)
@sugelanren My stance is still the same. I don't blame ALL Christians and please don't put words in my mouth. I blame the insanely zealous, bible thumping Christians. I do blame the government too because they are without integrity by accepting campaign bribes from lobbyists. America needs an enema! :-)
@sugelanren The difference is that non believers - and here, I assume you meant *some* of them, just as I am meaning now for believers - don't support bad things because of their non belief... :)
@Nardypants I did mean some. There are dicks of all ilk, i don't see the point in vilifying a group because of their radical elements...where would we be if we all thought that way (rhetorical) :)
@sugelanren If a belief is not harmful I really don't care. However I suspect thy are not meeting to plan a great secular community party. they are likely meeting to rally the troops to expand the church. And as noted in many of my videos there there is a variety of potential harm religion can support. A country can have a certain level of religous belief and it would be a non factor in society and I'd be discussing something besides religion but that is not yet the case in America.
@RelaxGodfolk I'dve been up front with them and tell them the church was not the place for me...I met a pastor when i was in New England last year (during a social event)...he seemed liberal, down to earth, and could drink with the rest of us...Maybe your area of America is different.
You’re right of course but I don’t see it as important to ‘wake up’ the deluded. To ‘respect’ some one’s beliefs is really just to feel sorry for that person’s misguidedness but to do so in secret. The secret is kept out of compassion rather than respect. It’s like refraining from telling stupid people that they are stupid. Good people are motivated to spare the feelings of others out of compassion and it is right that they do so.
@MarkLucasTube Have to disagree with you a bit here bro. If those beliefs have no ill effects I'd agree. Of course, I don't feel that is the case here. And in such cases I support respectful communication when possible and ridicule and outrage when the offense is deserving (though that's not my typical style). Communication is the key to any relationship and today we are all realated in an increasingly real way. Having said that there is a line and we must pick our battles.
theist have become atheist, and you never know what your role in that is. I know for myself, it was many many many people and things that added up to my tossing out my religion.
@gothatfunk thanks bro. Life is kicking my butt a bit. May have some changes coming up. All will be well. I've never "quit" mentally but i'm sure there will be breaks here and there as I regain sanity.
You the funny thing about planting "seeds" is thats exactly what I use to say as a Christian. B/c of course I KNEW I had the "truth" when I was a Christian and if nothing else at least I could plant that seed and let Christ take over. I wish I could follow up and see which seeds actually lead a person one way or the other, the seeds of doubt or the seeds of faith.
Good idea, confrontational does not work. Thats a good approach. I'm invited to a church today and I will go, so your video perfectly fits my current situation ... maybe there is a higher power after all ... ; )
This is a great way to go about it; I find that when you show Christians your conclusions, it becomes a passionate argument and usually goes nowhere. But when you speak from the heart and just say how you feel and how you changed, there's no argument. It becomes a discussion, which is a much better thing to have than an argument.
@El3ctricPenguin Well put! Just as we can't really argue against personal experience neither can they. Also it's beneficial to show them the path instead of the destiny. Am I turning into a theist?! ;-)
Ah, "The Wall." I know it well. I ran into that sucker hard a few years back (my fault). It needn't have ended the friendship like it did (my fault) but it definitely ended the conversation. If only I'd seen a couple of years of youtube before attempting my spiel.
@LazySundayClub that would be a nice title for a book. Avoiding the Wall (RelaxGodfolk's guide to effective communication) Maybe I'll get on that. haha
A very interesting discussion, RGF. To establish non-combative rapport with people it is necessary to make them feel safe with you. This is typically accomplished by finding and communicating common ground between you. If a theist hits you right away with the question of whether or not you are a theist and you answer that you aren't then very little progress can be accomplished. But if you can begin talking about some humanistic principles that are shared with the "ideals" rather than (cont.)
@1140Cecile (cont.) the actual practices of theists a non-combative rapport can be established. There are many ideals that were theoretically preached by Jesus and that are generally shared with humanists and these can offer at least a theoretical common ground. Their aversion to questioning anything surrounding their faith, however, will quickly become activated as soon as you begin to show you own questioning. Throwing the "seed" in has to happen just before they've re-constructed their wall.
@1140Cecile Sounds like good advice! I don't want this to sound like my approach is well thought out. It just is my natural approach to all conversation and I think it's been effective for me. I'm just trying to verbalize what it is for others, for what it's worth.
It's so strange that Christianists approach total strangers and proselytize, by inviting them to church, etc. It's not like atheists and agnostics walk up to strangers and invite them to drop by their agnostic discussion groups, conferences or rallies. (Well, not that there even are that many, actually...but still.) Weird. And rather insulting.
HollywoodHillsCookie 8 months ago
Now thats a true atheist! So fearless of death hes talking to himself looking down at his feet and Driving!!!
MrDelusionalPenguin 10 months ago
Planting a seed of doubt is all we can do and it is powerfull!! More often than not it will be the first time that they have ever even heard an opposing opinion. I like to ask people if they believe in god. When they say yes I ask them why??Most people just return with a blank stare. They have no idea why they believe.
iaov 11 months ago
I actually have told a Christian womens outreach donation collector at walmart that Jesus Christ was a myth and all religion is superstition. She had a bewildered look on her face and I almost felt bad for her but I figure it's not my fault people have been suckered by con artist theologians.I don't hesitate to say the truth no matter how hurtful it is.
Christian316316peace 11 months ago
: )
AtheistAddiction 1 year ago
Tell them about YouTube. They might go and have a look when they're all alone.
Welcome back!
wimsweden 1 year ago
@wimsweden hi bro. The line from A Few Good Men comes to mind "You can't handle the truth!" ;-)
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
Good to see you back. I had a productive discussion with 2 cute mormon girls who came knocking. I responded right away with the lack of evidence. I've never seen that result in a wall. Usually they bring up their book, and then we can talk about why it's no more evidence than "Cat in the Hat". I've found that if I have a pleasant demeanor and ask questions about their religion, they can't justify shutting down the conversation...and so it continues, and I get many "seeds of doubt" in their minds
wwwATHEISTATOMcom 1 year ago
@wwwATHEISTATOMcom you an asset to "our team"! :)
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
I don't get it. Why would you want to convert people away from their beliefs? Is "live and let live" really such a jaded notion these days?
sugelanren 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sugelanren "I don't get it. Why would you want to convert people away from their beliefs? Is "live and let live" really such a jaded notion these days?"
I find this quite a silly question, just ask yourself why religious people want to convert people to theri beliefs ?
Maybe because they are convinced that it's the truth ?
maybe because they care about people living a better and truthful life ?.
saintpine 1 year ago
@sugelanren Funny you mention the "live and let live" philosophy. I agree... I will stop trying to "convert" Christians just as soon as homosexuals can marry in every state. Sorry, but I can't let Christian bigotry "live and let live". I will let it live once no more wars are started just because different variations of sky daddies.
mrsalmon1984 1 year ago
@mrsalmon1984 Surely your problem is with the government, not christians? We have Gay civil partnership here, so it's not a big issue for us. I know your country is a bit backwards that way, but it would be equally backward to blame all christians for the fault of legislation me thinks.
sugelanren 1 year ago
@sugelanren You are right. My problem is with the government, but if you lived in redneck hell (I'm in Oklahoma) you would see that religion controls our political system. You were right, but I don't think you saw the connection I was trying to make... Christian groups lobby our politicians so they can get their "Christian morals" made into laws. Granted I should have elaborated more. Peace my friend :-)
mrsalmon1984 1 year ago
@mrsalmon1984 Boomshanka ( May the seeds of your loins be fruitful in the belly of your woman)... for comedic relevance go to /watch?v=QJLojFJeXmg
I know there is a lot of legitimate ire with christians in America, i just don't get it really...you have to be there i guess. Peace out. Huck
sugelanren 1 year ago
@sugelanren My stance is still the same. I don't blame ALL Christians and please don't put words in my mouth. I blame the insanely zealous, bible thumping Christians. I do blame the government too because they are without integrity by accepting campaign bribes from lobbyists. America needs an enema! :-)
mrsalmon1984 1 year ago
@mrsalmon1984 Where did i put words in your mouth (honestly confused here)...
sugelanren 1 year ago
@sugelanren Because their beliefs can cause them to support bad things, maybe?
Nardypants 1 year ago
@Nardypants And non believers don't support bad things?
sugelanren 1 year ago
@sugelanren The difference is that non believers - and here, I assume you meant *some* of them, just as I am meaning now for believers - don't support bad things because of their non belief... :)
Nardypants 1 year ago
@Nardypants I did mean some. There are dicks of all ilk, i don't see the point in vilifying a group because of their radical elements...where would we be if we all thought that way (rhetorical) :)
sugelanren 1 year ago
@sugelanren If a belief is not harmful I really don't care. However I suspect thy are not meeting to plan a great secular community party. they are likely meeting to rally the troops to expand the church. And as noted in many of my videos there there is a variety of potential harm religion can support. A country can have a certain level of religous belief and it would be a non factor in society and I'd be discussing something besides religion but that is not yet the case in America.
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
@RelaxGodfolk I'dve been up front with them and tell them the church was not the place for me...I met a pastor when i was in New England last year (during a social event)...he seemed liberal, down to earth, and could drink with the rest of us...Maybe your area of America is different.
sugelanren 1 year ago
You’re right of course but I don’t see it as important to ‘wake up’ the deluded. To ‘respect’ some one’s beliefs is really just to feel sorry for that person’s misguidedness but to do so in secret. The secret is kept out of compassion rather than respect. It’s like refraining from telling stupid people that they are stupid. Good people are motivated to spare the feelings of others out of compassion and it is right that they do so.
MarkLucasTube 1 year ago
@MarkLucasTube Have to disagree with you a bit here bro. If those beliefs have no ill effects I'd agree. Of course, I don't feel that is the case here. And in such cases I support respectful communication when possible and ridicule and outrage when the offense is deserving (though that's not my typical style). Communication is the key to any relationship and today we are all realated in an increasingly real way. Having said that there is a line and we must pick our battles.
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
theist have become atheist, and you never know what your role in that is. I know for myself, it was many many many people and things that added up to my tossing out my religion.
givingmantoo 1 year ago
@givingmantoo at least that's how I convince myself this stuff is worth my time. :)
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
great vid, geat to see ya back.
gothatfunk 1 year ago
@gothatfunk thanks bro. Life is kicking my butt a bit. May have some changes coming up. All will be well. I've never "quit" mentally but i'm sure there will be breaks here and there as I regain sanity.
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
You the funny thing about planting "seeds" is thats exactly what I use to say as a Christian. B/c of course I KNEW I had the "truth" when I was a Christian and if nothing else at least I could plant that seed and let Christ take over. I wish I could follow up and see which seeds actually lead a person one way or the other, the seeds of doubt or the seeds of faith.
AtheistKharm 1 year ago
@AtheistKharm haha and you were right back then. But now we spread "Seeds of Truth" which grow faster and stronger.
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
@RelaxGodfolk yea, I wish someone told me just some of the stuff that I've learned from Bart Erhman's books.
AtheistKharm 1 year ago
Don't videotape and drive. Its not save. Save that for the crazy people like jezuzfreak777.
michalchik 1 year ago 6
@michalchik lol it was a 12h drive, I had to talk to someone or go insane. I choose a very long straight road. :) thanks for your concern!
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
5 Stars:)
blondie973 1 year ago
@blondie973 the good ol days of stars. Much appreciated!
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
Good idea, confrontational does not work. Thats a good approach. I'm invited to a church today and I will go, so your video perfectly fits my current situation ... maybe there is a higher power after all ... ; )
Thanks for posting!
elTMorales 1 year ago
@elTMorales Cool, we'd love to hear more about your event!
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
This is a great way to go about it; I find that when you show Christians your conclusions, it becomes a passionate argument and usually goes nowhere. But when you speak from the heart and just say how you feel and how you changed, there's no argument. It becomes a discussion, which is a much better thing to have than an argument.
El3ctricPenguin 1 year ago
@El3ctricPenguin Well put! Just as we can't really argue against personal experience neither can they. Also it's beneficial to show them the path instead of the destiny. Am I turning into a theist?! ;-)
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
You were in Atlanta. I'm not trying to be cruel, but sowing a seed would have been the best by. . a country mile.
pumpstations 1 year ago
Thursday @ 5;00 PM, there will be a meeting of the little Mothers Club. All wishing to become little Mothers, please see the Minister in the Study...
gettingolder2 1 year ago
tell them to search computer technology in ancient texts.
solomonkane23 1 year ago
Ah, "The Wall." I know it well. I ran into that sucker hard a few years back (my fault). It needn't have ended the friendship like it did (my fault) but it definitely ended the conversation. If only I'd seen a couple of years of youtube before attempting my spiel.
LazySundayClub 1 year ago
@LazySundayClub that would be a nice title for a book. Avoiding the Wall (RelaxGodfolk's guide to effective communication) Maybe I'll get on that. haha
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago
A very interesting discussion, RGF. To establish non-combative rapport with people it is necessary to make them feel safe with you. This is typically accomplished by finding and communicating common ground between you. If a theist hits you right away with the question of whether or not you are a theist and you answer that you aren't then very little progress can be accomplished. But if you can begin talking about some humanistic principles that are shared with the "ideals" rather than (cont.)
1140Cecile 1 year ago
@1140Cecile (cont.) the actual practices of theists a non-combative rapport can be established. There are many ideals that were theoretically preached by Jesus and that are generally shared with humanists and these can offer at least a theoretical common ground. Their aversion to questioning anything surrounding their faith, however, will quickly become activated as soon as you begin to show you own questioning. Throwing the "seed" in has to happen just before they've re-constructed their wall.
1140Cecile 1 year ago
@1140Cecile Sounds like good advice! I don't want this to sound like my approach is well thought out. It just is my natural approach to all conversation and I think it's been effective for me. I'm just trying to verbalize what it is for others, for what it's worth.
RelaxGodfolk 1 year ago