Proper battle rifle zero- From Navy Seal Kyle Defoor

[Armory52]

@puddynuts. Sir the grannysmith method would be the best for your application

[puddynuts]

I like to shoot apples off of my grandma's head at 50 yards. What zero shoot I use? I'm thinking a 300 yard zero so I'll have to aim well low of the apple. I think that would be the safest course of action.

[leongaines]

@akjunkie, yes, but when you start to reach out beyond 200 yards, lets say 300 yards with a 100 yard zero, your adjustment to make the shot will be greater than the adjustment needed when you already have a 50/200 yd zero, shooting at closer ranges works out equally as good.

[leongaines]

@jetfuel545 - Yes sir, I agree. All depends on the application. In competition, paper or clay shooting, yes, I would zero at the distance that I know I am shooting. If we're talking about battlefield type environment the distance is always a variable..

[leongaines]

@bighitter42 I see you're dropping all these fancy names.If you're a follower and cannot come up with what works for YOU then do what they say, doesnt bother me one bit.You say the 50/200yd zro has weak points.Okay big guy name them compared to the 100yd zero. If you know ballistics you know the 100yd is the high point of the trajectory with only one cross point. Why have one zero when you can have 2?

[rcroach23]

i just got done zeroing my ar's irons and eotech at 50 yds, maybe ill try the 100 meter zero next time on my other ar.

[akjunkie]

Zeroing @ 100yds is pretty much the same thing as doing the 50yd/200yds BZO.

As others have said, doing a 50yds zero will let U shoot 1.5in High @ 100.

[oldmoney74]

Shit, that gun isn't ready for plinking much less war. I want one and two inch groups at 100 yards.

[leongaines]

A 100 yard zero only intersects at 100 yards then gravity takes over.  Use a 50/200 yard zero. AR15 zero at 200 is perfect, the ballistics of a 5.56 round is that the trajectory will intersect your target at 50 (on the way up) AND 200-216 yds(on the way down gravity). therefore a 200yd zero will be a hit at 50 & 200 yds. Then when aiming at 100 yds your shot will be about 1.5" high and 300 yards, about 1.5" low. Beyond that use MOA . I am using an aimpoint comp m3 w 3x scope.

[jetfuel545]

@leongaines Thanks for the info. My friend Semiauto is a big fan of the 50/200 yard zero. I think it is best to zero at whatever range you are shooting at most, or per target you are shooting at. At a man size target the 50/200 is great, but if you are shooting paper or clay's for instance at 100 then a 100yd zero makes sense. I just believe its best to zero for the particular cartridge and intended use.

[bighitter42]

@leongaines What are your qualifications?  Are you a former Navy SEAL who trains thousands of civilians, SO types, and LEO's like Kyle or Jeff Gonzales? Are you a former Delta member like Paul Howe, Larry Vickers, Pat Macnamara, or Jim Smith?

They advocate the 100 yard zero...who the hell are you? Have you shot a lot of people on Uncle Sam's dime? There's nothing wrong with a 200 yard zero...but it has it's weak points just like every other zero.

[saka1ish]

@leongaines Gravity is acting on the bullet the moment it leaves the barrel. The reason for the arc in the bullets trajectory is because the barrel is actually raised at the muzzle end when you look through the sights. Bullets are just metal flying through the air, they do not magically rise up. This is a common misconception. Also, the 200 yd zero is a technique that knowingly limits the capability of the weapon system. Stick with the 300 yd zero to get the most out of your rifle.

[jetfuel545]

@saka1ish Good info on the trajectory curve. Many guys, especially new to longer range shooting may not get the ballistic curve. For anyone not engaging in combat and just wanting to practice at the range the 300 zero put shots quite high and may be very confusing for new guys trying to shoot at ranges mid way where the bullets rise will be max some 7" high above point of aim. For these shooters a 100yd zero becomes easier to learn with. That is what I have seen.

[saka1ish]

@jetfuel545 Great point, Jetfuel. I agree that it's best to keep things simple and not overload a new shooter. At the end of the day, they are all just techniques.

[ELITEHAMSTER123]

@jetfuel545 For those having trouble choosing a good zero, this is how my AK is set up, a 100 yard zero on the iron sights and a 200 zero on the optic. I am sure you could do the same on your AR.

[danthman114]

i dialed my optics in at 100 and my irons in at 200. what miller and kyle said is true. 100 will mess up the bdc but those are just ballpark anyway depending on environment when you get up to 500. i dont think i ever had an m16 that the 5 was ever matched with 500. it was always +- 2 clicks.

[jetfuel545]

@danthman114 Wise words, thanks for the comment.

[scuds03]

From what I've experienced on my last deployment we relied on soldiers using the larger caliber weapons to handle enemy personnel at distances greater than 300 meters while we provided security and cover fire for them.

[jetfuel545]

@scuds03 Thank you for your service. What branch? And do youf find most guys have some sort of optic/ red dot type on their rifles?

[scuds03]

@jetfuel545 Army, mostly CompM4's, Acogs, and PEQ boxes

[Hinatadog]

@scuds03 Still no excuse why you can't hit up to 600 there killer. I know the AN-PVQ31B's are ballistic for M4s. Should be 4 targets, 4 rounds.

[scuds03]

@Hinatadog Not making excuses, I shoot expert with both the M16 and M4..I'm just saying that from what I've seen/done, we just let the 240 and mk19 gunners lob them out there while focusing riflemen on closer sectors of security for the big guns.

[m249a1]

reduced sized target at 25 yds still works for the corps when it comes to zeroing! 

[troopcom]

I feel better about my sks, i can shoot 2.5 to 3" groups of 5 shots at 100 yards. I think it is battle ready.

[semiautoriflelover1]

@troopcom That is good accuracy, my friend SKS I can get around 3-4" with the Yugo surplus.

[millerusaf]

The bad thing about this zero is you pretty much ruin the BDC on the A2 style sights. There's been alot of AARs coming from Afghanistan detailing how the enemy is engaging at far distances on a regular basis (300 to almost 700 meters away). During my combat skills training refresher last fall, we were shown these AARs and the emphasis was to not rely on guesswork (Kentucky windage/elevation) even at longer ranges.

It all depends on the environment, though.

[jetfuel545]

@millerusaf I agree, that it depends on the environment.  I also believe it depends on the sight/optic used. There are a ton of options available. Each one should be set for its most effective use and the condition in which it will be used in. Thanks for the comment.

[millerusaf]

@jetfuel545 I do think this shorter range sighting would be optimal for law enforcement, though. Police officers aren't really going to be shooting out to long ranges, so I see this type of bzo as the better option for their patrol carbines.

[semiautoriflelover1]

@millerusaf Kyle Defoor said he went to war with the 200 meter zero and he has combat kills as a Seal, I trust what he says, I've been using the 200 zero for 10 years and it's only 1.5" high at 100. There must be a reason why so many people who were in combat have switched from 300 zero? They didn't like the trajectory and as you said before most shots are under 200 in combat. Defoor has said that when they went on mission they used scoped accurate rifle for shooting past 300 meters. 1 shot kill

[semiautoriflelover1]

@millerusaf You can still use the clicks, just add paint to show each distance, i did that with mine when I used the Santose battlezero. The Seals and Larry Vickers like the 100 and 200 zero better because they found that 90% of their shots were at 100 meters and head shots and they just wanted to aim dead on, for 300 meters shot its easy with red dot just hold above the guys head or plate in my case. You have all that distance to get it right but at 100 you don't have time.

[biguy525]

Good video.

[MavHunter20XX]

Check out the ziptie on his buttstock

[rogermcgee1]

Interesting. Helpful. Can't argue with a Navy SEAL

[SpencerAK74M]

Excellent! I assume this will carry over to AKs.... Perhaps fiddle with the range a bit

[jetfuel545]

@SpencerAK74M Correct, this should be applied to any battle rifle. The 300M zero never made sense to me. Why you would want to hit point of aim at 300 and for everything closer where the vast majority of shots will be taken you have to use Kentucky windage. Thats silly. A quote of Defoor I really enjoy is if you are shooting at 300 you have that distance to figure it out, no big deal.

[semiautoriflelover1]

@SpencerAK74M For my AK74 I found that I liked it dead on at 200, I place rear sight at 200 then zero dead nuts at 50 then shoot at 100 and 200 and confirm, the 5.45 is very flat shooting so from 50-200 you just aim dead center and it's a hit easy, no way you want the shots at 100 to be super high with AK74 like Soviets.

[black1705f]

I usually do a 50 yard zero because it's easier to get a tight group to make adjustments to and just more convenient. I think its not much more than an inch off at 100 yards anyways and at that range the deviation isn't hardly noticeable.

[jetfuel545]

@black1705f Mr Defoor would call that lazy, lol. its also why its so critical to use a stable rest when you are doing sight adj/zero I know you already know all that. If the majority of your shooting is at 50 then a zero at 50 makes sense, but if you try to go for X ring at 100 or fatal T or a heart shot, you will be outside the window. I really like one of his quotes "Close is fine for competitors, close is not good enough for killers. "

[black1705f]

@jetfuel545 I noticed his group wasn't all that great not to mention he wasn't shooting very well from the prone. I think he would have done better from a bench or at least from some sort of support at the prone as opposed to jamming the magazine in the dirt for support. I don't know if I'd want the responsibility of having to put a round in a guys sinus cavity at 100 yards if he has some sort of hostage. In his chest I'd do it all day long. I've shot my 50 yard zero at 100 and it does ok.

[jetfuel545]

@black1705f I fully agree with you. his group was not that good and he should have been shooting from the bench. What I was getting at regarding shot placement was a reference he made in the vid where he said poor zero is in his opinion why the 5.56 has a bad rep for stopping effectiveness. it makes sense. Aiming at center mass and having you bullet strike in upper chest is not going to drop him as if your poi should have been in the vitals where you were aiming.

[black1705f]

@jetfuel545 It would be nice that bad guys would even sit still that long to let me shoot them in the chest. I like shorter range zeros anyways like 50 or 100 yards. Especially with red dot optics hold over a target is easy compared to irons where you won't be able to see the target if you hold over too much. I've always been quick to embrace Kentucky windage

[semiautoriflelover1]

@black1705f If you zero at 200 the shots will be 1.5" high at 100 and if you zero at 100 the shots will be close to dead nuts still at 200. either one is great for carbines in my opinion and the opinion of Larry Vickers and Navy Seals, they say "close is good enough for competitions but not good enough for killers". The guy in this video has combat kills.

[Lardman678]

@black1705f

A 150-200 yard zero would make more sense to me, considering with that at 100 yards, all you would need to do is aim for pelvis to get center mass, and aim for sternum to get head shots. Plus, now you can really reach out at longer distances, and kentucky windage for 300 yards won't be nearly as severe if you were using a 100 yard zero. Just my opinion.

[black1705f]

@Lardman678 I'd have to say that holding under a target is a lot easier than holding over a target with irons. I don't really have access to anything beyond 100 yards to shoot at. I don't hump across a third world countries with miles of open ground either. The times I've employed a carbine it's actually been at fairly close ranges and fortunately for the other guy compliance was achieved and no shots were fired. A 50 yard zero POI is supposed to be close to 200 yards POI or so they say.