But acorn was still defunded and those pussheads are still lying and this was not shown on CNN. They fail to tell the truth on their station as well. Or at least follow the truth of a fauz lie.
@tuesdayismoney Can you be more specific as to what else your saying Acorn did. It would be nice to know what BS your talinng about, there is so much with the Fox Propoganda maching making so much shit up.
He should sue Fox News for slander and libel. They deliberately twisted the facts and withheld facts to mislead the public, and they never issued a retraction or apology
Juan Carlos did not phone "the police" Maddow, he phoned "his cousin". With no evidence of when the report was made, we can just as easily assume Juan's family relation was covering for him when he suspected Vera's behind might fry.
Juan's clip was far from the most damning ACORN sting, the Baltimore sting is blatant. Try watching v=LtTnizEnC1U . Heck, how about the lady talking about killing her husband? Watch v=7s8w9GEpSzw .
@RavenRaving2Earth The events were listed as "Juan Carlos calls Detective Cousin", "Det. Cousin calls SD Police". Only "Juan Carlos calling Cousin" was described as "immediate". HOW LONG DID IT TAKE FOR DETECTIVE HERNANDEZ TO CONTACT SAN DIEGO POLICE? Did Hernandez only contact the police when it was clear Press would be involved?
Maddow seems to be suggesting this is an airtight series of events, but the quote from the report doesn't seem to suggest this at all.
@mwells219 Ah my bad, I only read one of your comments (the cousin one) and it sounded like you were on the other side of the fence. I agree with you, actually.
@dirtysteve24 You have a comprehension problem. He did contact the police directly. His cousin is a detective in the police department. It doesn't get much more direct than that. After seeing this story of conservatives illegally taping someone in order to slander, defame and frame him for a crime he didn't commit -- your outrage is that the victim of this hoax called his contact at the police department instead of the main switchboard??? Obviously, you are the partisan twit.
@HerbalG123 It's inappropriate to call a police detective when you have information about a possible crime being committed? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Even more ridiculous if you see nothing wrong with illegally videotaping someone without his knowledge, then editing the tape in a deliberately misleading way to make him look him look like a child prostitute smuggler.
@friendofthefunk It's inappropriate to call your cousin, he's biased. He should have called someone else to report the crime. What's ridiculous is that you see nothing wrong with it!
@HerbalG123 Hahaha that's absurd. Bias isn't even an issue. He called the police to report information. It doesn't matter which detective writes that information down. But for the sake of argument, let's say that you're right and the perfectly sensible act of calling his contact at the police department was somehow inappropriate -- is it any where near as inappropriate as the actions of these clowns that tried to frame him? Of course not.
@friendofthefunk "Bias isn't even an issue." I'm sure Monsanto and Halliburton agree.
"let's say that"..."calling his contact at the police department was somehow inappropriate"..."is it any where near as inappropriate as the actions of these clowns[?]"
You're basing your allegations of a "frame up" on the report Vera made to his family relation, and mainstream media talking points. Vera reported to a biased party, the reporters voluntarily released unedited footage. Who seems legit?
@HerbalG123 Seriously, are you just so closed minded that you need to cling to your first impressions of ACORN even when they have been destroyed, or are you just a troll fishing for arguments?
Plus, there's the whole entrapment issue at play. These two clowns were not reporters, and they had no investigative evidence prior to their "sting" to prove ACORN was helping pimps and prostitutes. They went in there fishing and entrapping blindly. It's disgusting and unethical.
@Pwells1 "Plus, there's the whole entrapment issue at play." There's no entrapment issue "at play" because the reporters were not law enforcement and only law enforcement can "entrap". Read it in any law dictionary.
..."you need to cling to your first impressions of ACORN"..."or are you just a troll". This is either supposition and ad hominem attacks, or you're a physic!
@HerbalG123 LMAO Who seems legit? Um, the guy who reported the whole thing to the cops. Not the guy who came up with the whole fake slavery ring idea in the first place, deliberately edited the footage in a misleading manner, edited in additional footage of himself in a pimp outfit for added effect, all in an admitted attempt to bring down a company. Your "biased party" claim is a joke.
@friendofthefunk "deliberately edited the footage in a misleading manner". Maddow showed the unedited footage, not the edited piece.
"Your 'biased party' claim is a joke." "Bias" is a word that actually has a definition, you see. It's "a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation". Do you think Vera's family relation meets the definition of "impartial"? If you were on trial, could your cousin serve on the jury?
@HerbalG123 False analogy. His cousin wasn't acting as judge or juror. Either explain what difference it would have made if he reported the information to a different cop, or drop it. You're not fooling anyone with that red herring; you're dwelling on the nonissue of which cop he reported the information to in order to avoid the issue of the actual crimes committed by the real "biased party" in this situation: the guy in the pimp suit who admitted his agenda included bringing down ACORN.
@friendofthefunk If the cousin would be too partial to serve on a jury, it's logical to conclude there could be impropriety in his reporting. If Vera made his statement to a different cop, Vera's claim would have been processed in an impartial way. Vera chose to report to his family relation, who was in a position to shield Vera from legal repercussions. The glossary of a critical thinking book doesn't change that fact.
@HerbalG123 "If Vera made his statement to a different cop, Vera's claim would have been processed in an impartial way." Huh? If Vera wanted to hide something, he could hide it from whomever he was reporting to. It would still be from him, so it wouldn't be any less "partial." Unless he was somehow granted immunity from any further questioning by any other investigating officers -- which he wasn't -- there is no relevant impartiality at play. You're really reaching here.
@friendofthefunk Obviously Vera could have lied to an impartial party, but only a biased party would assist him in lying and try to shield him from the repercussions. It's a real stretch to claim his cousin was an impartial party!
@HerbalG123 "If the cousin would be too partial to serve on a jury, it's logical to conclude there could be impropriety in his reporting." Huh? No, not at all. What if he had contacted his lawyer instead, and his lawyer submitted the information to the police on his behalf? By your logic it would be improper because his lawyer was a biased party. Even if Vera had reported directly to the chief of police, Vera himself is a biased party. So there's no difference in partiality. You're being silly.
@friendofthefunk "What if he had contacted his lawyer instead". Of course Vera and the reporters are biased parties, but they are not biased government officials. A lawyer is not a government official, and is certainly partial. If Vera's lawyer chose to report to Vera's cousin, do you suggest this would not be dubious? Vera chose to report his story to a biased official when he could have just as easily chosen an impartial one, and a reasonable person should question why.
@HerbalG123 Hahaha are you kidding? No reasonable person would question why someone with a contact in the police department would call that contact in a situation like this. It's completely reasonable.
"If Vera's lawyer chose to report to Vera's cousin, do you suggest this would not be dubious?" What I suggest is that if Vera's lawyer delivered Vera's story to the chief of police it would be no less partial than if Vera's cousin delivered it, which is what happened.
@friendofthefunk "What I suggest is that if Vera's lawyer delivered Vera's story to the chief of police it would be no less partial than if Vera's cousin delivered it". You are suggesting a family member of Vera, and an unrelated third party have the same bias. This is completely absurd.
@HerbalG123 Not just an"unrelated third party", silly. I'm suggesting that a person's LAWYER is not impartial. If it's absurd to you that a person you pay to represent your interests could be at least as biased with regard to your interests as a cousin would be, you are completely clueless.
@friendofthefunk "If it's absurd to you that a person you pay to represent your interests could be at least as biased with regard to your interests as a cousin would be, you are completely clueless." You didn't read my comments correctly, the lawyer is biased the same as a cousin is biased. It's nice to know we agree on something.
@HerbalG123 Now you're getting it. A cousin, a lawyer, and Vera himself would all be potentially biased with respect to Vera's interests, which is why it doesn't make any difference which one of those parties reports Vera's information to the proper authorities (e.g. San Diego police) so long as it does get reported to them (which it did). The police would obviously be aware of all those potentials for bias, unless the cousin somehow covered up his familial ties (which he didn't).
@friendofthefunk "which is why it doesn't make any difference which one of those parties reports Vera's information to the proper authorities". Vera sought a biased party when he could have just as easily sought to report to impartial authorities. The report was generated by a biased party, who had an uncertain role in the report's content and time of disclosure.
@HerbalG123 Bullshit. Two police departments, the Attorney General and multiple phone records confirmed that Vera immediately reported the incident -- he even left a voicemail with the detective's office. No effort seems to have been made by Vera's cousin to conceal the report from the rest of the department or to conceal his relationship with Vera. In short, there is no evidence that Vera or Detective Hernandez did anything wrong and there is ample evidence that O'Keefe and Giles did.
@friendofthefunk "Two police departments, the Attorney General and multiple phone records confirmed that Vera immediately reported the incident". [citation needed]
@HerbalG123 Keep reaching. I would call someone I know BECAUSE I KNOW THEM AND HAVE A DYNAMIC WITH THEM. His cousin knows the job of this guy. He knows what he does day in day out. So already, he doesn't have to explain all that. Going to someone you know means they already understand the dynamic that much easier because they know about who you are and what you do. JESUS CHRIST use your head.
And I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue.
@Pwells1 "I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue." Already answered: There's no entrapment issue "at play" because the reporters were not law enforcement and only law enforcement can "entrap". Read it in any law dictionary.
@Pwells1 "I would call someone I know". Like a family member who will likely want to protect you, right?
"And I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue." Already answered, one must be a police officer or official to "entrap". There is no "entrapment issue".
@HerbalG123 Oh my god you just keep splitting hairs! The people acted like law enforcement/investigative reporters, yet exercised none of the ethics involved in either practice. They had no prior evidence to even suggest that ACORN was acting in this way. They just performed a fishing expedition in the hopes of creating a story out of nothing.
@Pwells1 "They had no prior evidence to even suggest that ACORN was acting in this way." An "investigation" is something you do to gather "evidence". Are you suggesting that investigation is always entrapment?
@HerbalG123 WTF are you talking about? He called his cousin because that's the police officer he knew. Since he had done no wrong doing himself, why not call his cousin? He was probably thinking "Holy crap. That was really weird." and immediately wanted to get the information to someone who could deal with it.
@HerbalG123 The man was probably confused on how to approach this bizarre situation, and thus called his cousin not only to report the crime, but to ask "WTF do I do, and what just happened?" and to talk about it.
As an example, lets say for instance I found out that I thought my friend had been raped a couple weeks ago, but didn't report it. But she told me some details. If I had an uncle at the police dept, I would call him FIRST to report what I knew and to ask what else I should do.
@Pwells1 "lets say for instance I found out that I thought my friend had been raped a couple weeks ago, but didn't report it. If I had an uncle at the police dept, I would call him FIRST to report what I knew and to ask what else I should do."
You would be calling your uncle because he's a biased party with a vested interest in shielding you from the law and keeping you out of jail. If you're doing the right thing, why not just call the switchboard?
@HerbalG123 Keeping me out of jail for what exactly? I'm reporting a possible rape, and that my friend might be a victim. I have nothing to fear or hide. I would call my uncle because he understands police procedure and could better inform me on what I should do. it's a tricky situation, because my friend isn't reporting it herself, and I'm not directly involved, so I don't know what to do.
Here, the guy wasn't sure on how to proceed. So he called his buddy for advice and with information
@Pwells1 "I would call my uncle because he understands police procedure and could better inform me on what I should do." Any police officer would know what to do in that situation! You specifically reporting to your uncle insinuates impropriety. Another way, why report to your family relations when you could have reported to an unbiased third party?
@friendofthefunk "If his cousin hadn't passed the word on, you might have a point." Perhaps detective-cousin only passed along Vera's claims when it became clear Vera had been conversing with reporters. This is the question raised because Vera chose to contact a party who was partial. For the same reasons you distrust FoxNews, it would be wise to distrust all mainstream media outlets. Are your own biases hindering your scrutiny?
@HerbalG123 Yawn. Still waiting for you to explain how it would have made any difference if he had reported to a different person at the police department. You can't because it wouldn't make any difference. It's a red herring and you know it.
@HerbalG123 Oh please. You still can't explain how it makes a difference in this situation. And you're still avoiding addressing the actions of the other parties involved. Wave your red herring around all you want, but like I said, you're not fooling anyone.
@friendofthefunk ..."can't explain how it makes a difference in this situation." Why not take Vera's word at face value, that he has contacts involved in human smuggling? After suspecting he'd been stung, Vera contacts detective-cousin. If the reporters come forward with a story the detective counters by saying Vera reported their suspicious behavior. If no one comes forward, there's no report. Would Vera's cousin not be inclined to protect his family member? This is called "bias".
@HerbalG123 Haha you mean setting aside how far-fetched it is to think that the pair of clowns that admitted they made up the Mexican human smuggling story to discredit ACORN -- happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling? Hahaha ok, well even in that magical universe your logic doesn't make sense because it would still take the collusion of the whole San Diego police department to shield Vera in any ensuing investigation.
@friendofthefunk "how far-fetched it is to think that the pair"..."happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling?" Vera claims to have human smuggling contacts in Tijuana. We are to believe he's lying about this, and now being truthful?
@friendofthefunk "how far-fetched it is to think that the pair"..."happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling?" Are you suggesting Vera was being deceitful about this claim, and truthful in his subsequent statements? Why not simply tell the pair he would not be a party to illegal activity, or discreetly contact the authorities during the meeting?
@HerbalG123 "Why not simply tell the pair he would not be a party to illegal activity, or discreetly contact the authorities during the meeting?"
It seems perfectly reasonable to call the cops immediately after they leave, rather than try to "discreetly" call the cops on someone sitting across the desk from him.
@friendofthefunk "how far-fetched it is to think that the pair"..."happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling?" Not very far-fetched, when that's exactly what Vera claimed on videotape.
@HerbalG123@HerbalG123 Come on, use your head. By that logic, Giles is probably an actual prostitute since she said so in the video.
"Vera claims to have human smuggling contacts in Tijuana. We are to believe he's lying about this, and now being truthful?" Um yes, we are to believe he was not being truthful to the strange couple that came into his office with a crazy story, and that if he were serious about being involved in something highly illegal he wouldn't call the police about it.
@luchpockets Agreed. This should be a class action lawsuit for the hundreds that lost jobs when their funding was cut. I've read there are 20 unnamed defendants in the lawsuit as well, hopefully Hannity, Ailes and Murdoch are among them.
send their lying asses to jail!
lapere 11 months ago
But acorn was still defunded and those pussheads are still lying and this was not shown on CNN. They fail to tell the truth on their station as well. Or at least follow the truth of a fauz lie.
ValyTraveler 11 months ago
I'm feeling so much hate right now.
TheFunkadelicFan 11 months ago
Republicans don't care about Facts, they only get in the way.
lifeinpictures 1 year ago
Wow...so this ONE story now negates all of the other ACORN offices and what they were doing? Rachel Maddow is so stupid.
tuesdayismoney 1 year ago
@tuesdayismoney, my God, you children of Satan detest the Truth, Hate the Truth, Writhe in Agony at the Truth, you know, God.
StartLoving3 1 year ago
@tuesdayismoney What's sad is a dummy like you is so stupid that your tiny brain makes you believe you're smarter than Rachel Maddow.
NewYorkCityUSA7 1 year ago
@tuesdayismoney Can you be more specific as to what else your saying Acorn did. It would be nice to know what BS your talinng about, there is so much with the Fox Propoganda maching making so much shit up.
xinecallaw 1 year ago
shut up, cum bucket.
Pelonetillo 11 months ago
Anyone can file a lawsuit in America. For the "hell of it" I would sue Sean Hannity just to piss him off! Even if I didn't get ONE RUSTY NICKEL!
Great posting by "StartLoving3" and Great job as usual by Rachel Maddow!
whiteliberal1 1 year ago
He should sue Fox News for slander and libel. They deliberately twisted the facts and withheld facts to mislead the public, and they never issued a retraction or apology
Pwells1 1 year ago
how does acorn get shut down after this and halliburton gets away with FUCKING EVERYTHING!
casteldredge 1 year ago 3
@casteldredge, simple. Halliburton fights for what they want, and we just talk.
StartLoving3 1 year ago
@StartLoving3
Really? One has the support of republicans and the other has the support of the democrats. Bullies vs the Spineless.
bigvi 1 year ago
@bigvi, hmmmm, spineless whiner - makes me think of you.
StartLoving3 1 year ago
this proves what lecherous and diabolical douche bags Republicans are willing to be prostitute their agenda. (pun intended)
CassAnayadotcom 1 year ago 3
Money and morals don't mix.
darabblerouser 1 year ago
i think there needs to be a class action lawsuit filed against fox news for millions of dollars for the wrongful slanderous reporting they have done.
mwells219 1 year ago
Fox News lie and make up their own bullshit stories to fit their ideological message? Color me shocked.
EscapeKey 1 year ago
hahaha, James Okief looks like a fuckin idiot.
prodrumma 1 year ago
Juan Carlos did not phone "the police" Maddow, he phoned "his cousin". With no evidence of when the report was made, we can just as easily assume Juan's family relation was covering for him when he suspected Vera's behind might fry.
Juan's clip was far from the most damning ACORN sting, the Baltimore sting is blatant. Try watching v=LtTnizEnC1U . Heck, how about the lady talking about killing her husband? Watch v=7s8w9GEpSzw .
Stay classy, ACORN!
dirtysteve24 1 year ago
@dirtysteve24 : Juan Carlos immediately called his cousin, a detective (whose name was given) at the National City Police Dept.
I hope the Repubes who perpetrated this fraud get to pay big time for their crime, and have to pay restitution for all the harm they've caused.
RavenRaving2Earth 1 year ago
@RavenRaving2Earth The events were listed as "Juan Carlos calls Detective Cousin", "Det. Cousin calls SD Police". Only "Juan Carlos calling Cousin" was described as "immediate". HOW LONG DID IT TAKE FOR DETECTIVE HERNANDEZ TO CONTACT SAN DIEGO POLICE? Did Hernandez only contact the police when it was clear Press would be involved?
Maddow seems to be suggesting this is an airtight series of events, but the quote from the report doesn't seem to suggest this at all.
dirtysteve24 1 year ago
his cousin who works for the police. don't even try and defend this you sound just sound like an idiot.
mwells219 1 year ago
@mwells219 Really? I mean... Really?
rapidsnow 1 year ago
yes. you conservatives attacked an organization that helped poor people. i hope you all feel like the scum you are.
mwells219 1 year ago
@mwells219 Are you kidding, these people have no conscience to begin with. I hope he also sues Faux Noise for this too.
decider43 1 year ago 2
@mwells219 Ah my bad, I only read one of your comments (the cousin one) and it sounded like you were on the other side of the fence. I agree with you, actually.
rapidsnow 1 year ago
@mwells219 He should have called the police directly, and not his "cousin". Go get an education, you partisan twit.
dirtysteve24 1 year ago
that's right, when all else fails just sling insults at people. that'll show all these people what a tough guy you are on the internet.
mwells219 1 year ago
@dirtysteve24 You have a comprehension problem. He did contact the police directly. His cousin is a detective in the police department. It doesn't get much more direct than that. After seeing this story of conservatives illegally taping someone in order to slander, defame and frame him for a crime he didn't commit -- your outrage is that the victim of this hoax called his contact at the police department instead of the main switchboard??? Obviously, you are the partisan twit.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk Vera called a biased party when reporting the crime. Why didn't he just call the switchboard? Sounds like impropriety to me.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 It's inappropriate to call a police detective when you have information about a possible crime being committed? Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Even more ridiculous if you see nothing wrong with illegally videotaping someone without his knowledge, then editing the tape in a deliberately misleading way to make him look him look like a child prostitute smuggler.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk It's inappropriate to call your cousin, he's biased. He should have called someone else to report the crime. What's ridiculous is that you see nothing wrong with it!
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Hahaha that's absurd. Bias isn't even an issue. He called the police to report information. It doesn't matter which detective writes that information down. But for the sake of argument, let's say that you're right and the perfectly sensible act of calling his contact at the police department was somehow inappropriate -- is it any where near as inappropriate as the actions of these clowns that tried to frame him? Of course not.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "Bias isn't even an issue." I'm sure Monsanto and Halliburton agree.
"let's say that"..."calling his contact at the police department was somehow inappropriate"..."is it any where near as inappropriate as the actions of these clowns[?]"
You're basing your allegations of a "frame up" on the report Vera made to his family relation, and mainstream media talking points. Vera reported to a biased party, the reporters voluntarily released unedited footage. Who seems legit?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Seriously, are you just so closed minded that you need to cling to your first impressions of ACORN even when they have been destroyed, or are you just a troll fishing for arguments?
Plus, there's the whole entrapment issue at play. These two clowns were not reporters, and they had no investigative evidence prior to their "sting" to prove ACORN was helping pimps and prostitutes. They went in there fishing and entrapping blindly. It's disgusting and unethical.
Pwells1 1 year ago
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@Pwells1 "Plus, there's the whole entrapment issue at play." There's no entrapment issue "at play" because the reporters were not law enforcement and only law enforcement can "entrap". Read it in any law dictionary.
..."you need to cling to your first impressions of ACORN"..."or are you just a troll". This is either supposition and ad hominem attacks, or you're a physic!
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 LMAO Who seems legit? Um, the guy who reported the whole thing to the cops. Not the guy who came up with the whole fake slavery ring idea in the first place, deliberately edited the footage in a misleading manner, edited in additional footage of himself in a pimp outfit for added effect, all in an admitted attempt to bring down a company. Your "biased party" claim is a joke.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "deliberately edited the footage in a misleading manner". Maddow showed the unedited footage, not the edited piece.
"Your 'biased party' claim is a joke." "Bias" is a word that actually has a definition, you see. It's "a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation". Do you think Vera's family relation meets the definition of "impartial"? If you were on trial, could your cousin serve on the jury?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 False analogy. His cousin wasn't acting as judge or juror. Either explain what difference it would have made if he reported the information to a different cop, or drop it. You're not fooling anyone with that red herring; you're dwelling on the nonissue of which cop he reported the information to in order to avoid the issue of the actual crimes committed by the real "biased party" in this situation: the guy in the pimp suit who admitted his agenda included bringing down ACORN.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk If the cousin would be too partial to serve on a jury, it's logical to conclude there could be impropriety in his reporting. If Vera made his statement to a different cop, Vera's claim would have been processed in an impartial way. Vera chose to report to his family relation, who was in a position to shield Vera from legal repercussions. The glossary of a critical thinking book doesn't change that fact.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 "If Vera made his statement to a different cop, Vera's claim would have been processed in an impartial way." Huh? If Vera wanted to hide something, he could hide it from whomever he was reporting to. It would still be from him, so it wouldn't be any less "partial." Unless he was somehow granted immunity from any further questioning by any other investigating officers -- which he wasn't -- there is no relevant impartiality at play. You're really reaching here.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk Obviously Vera could have lied to an impartial party, but only a biased party would assist him in lying and try to shield him from the repercussions. It's a real stretch to claim his cousin was an impartial party!
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 "If the cousin would be too partial to serve on a jury, it's logical to conclude there could be impropriety in his reporting." Huh? No, not at all. What if he had contacted his lawyer instead, and his lawyer submitted the information to the police on his behalf? By your logic it would be improper because his lawyer was a biased party. Even if Vera had reported directly to the chief of police, Vera himself is a biased party. So there's no difference in partiality. You're being silly.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "What if he had contacted his lawyer instead". Of course Vera and the reporters are biased parties, but they are not biased government officials. A lawyer is not a government official, and is certainly partial. If Vera's lawyer chose to report to Vera's cousin, do you suggest this would not be dubious? Vera chose to report his story to a biased official when he could have just as easily chosen an impartial one, and a reasonable person should question why.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Hahaha are you kidding? No reasonable person would question why someone with a contact in the police department would call that contact in a situation like this. It's completely reasonable.
"If Vera's lawyer chose to report to Vera's cousin, do you suggest this would not be dubious?" What I suggest is that if Vera's lawyer delivered Vera's story to the chief of police it would be no less partial than if Vera's cousin delivered it, which is what happened.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "What I suggest is that if Vera's lawyer delivered Vera's story to the chief of police it would be no less partial than if Vera's cousin delivered it". You are suggesting a family member of Vera, and an unrelated third party have the same bias. This is completely absurd.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Not just an"unrelated third party", silly. I'm suggesting that a person's LAWYER is not impartial. If it's absurd to you that a person you pay to represent your interests could be at least as biased with regard to your interests as a cousin would be, you are completely clueless.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "If it's absurd to you that a person you pay to represent your interests could be at least as biased with regard to your interests as a cousin would be, you are completely clueless." You didn't read my comments correctly, the lawyer is biased the same as a cousin is biased. It's nice to know we agree on something.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Now you're getting it. A cousin, a lawyer, and Vera himself would all be potentially biased with respect to Vera's interests, which is why it doesn't make any difference which one of those parties reports Vera's information to the proper authorities (e.g. San Diego police) so long as it does get reported to them (which it did). The police would obviously be aware of all those potentials for bias, unless the cousin somehow covered up his familial ties (which he didn't).
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "which is why it doesn't make any difference which one of those parties reports Vera's information to the proper authorities". Vera sought a biased party when he could have just as easily sought to report to impartial authorities. The report was generated by a biased party, who had an uncertain role in the report's content and time of disclosure.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Bullshit. Two police departments, the Attorney General and multiple phone records confirmed that Vera immediately reported the incident -- he even left a voicemail with the detective's office. No effort seems to have been made by Vera's cousin to conceal the report from the rest of the department or to conceal his relationship with Vera. In short, there is no evidence that Vera or Detective Hernandez did anything wrong and there is ample evidence that O'Keefe and Giles did.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
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@friendofthefunk "Two police departments, the Attorney General and multiple phone records confirmed that Vera immediately reported the incident". [citation needed]
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Keep reaching. I would call someone I know BECAUSE I KNOW THEM AND HAVE A DYNAMIC WITH THEM. His cousin knows the job of this guy. He knows what he does day in day out. So already, he doesn't have to explain all that. Going to someone you know means they already understand the dynamic that much easier because they know about who you are and what you do. JESUS CHRIST use your head.
And I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue.
Pwells1 1 year ago
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@Pwells1 "I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue." Already answered: There's no entrapment issue "at play" because the reporters were not law enforcement and only law enforcement can "entrap". Read it in any law dictionary.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
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@Pwells1 "I would call someone I know". Like a family member who will likely want to protect you, right?
"And I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue." Already answered, one must be a police officer or official to "entrap". There is no "entrapment issue".
HerbalG123 1 year ago
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@Pwells1 "And I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue." There is no entrapment issue, to "entrap" you must be law enforcement.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@Pwells1 "And I see you completely dodged the entrapment issue." To "entrap", you must be law enforcement. There is no "entrapment issue".
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Oh my god you just keep splitting hairs! The people acted like law enforcement/investigative reporters, yet exercised none of the ethics involved in either practice. They had no prior evidence to even suggest that ACORN was acting in this way. They just performed a fishing expedition in the hopes of creating a story out of nothing.
Pwells1 1 year ago
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@Pwells1 "They had no prior evidence to even suggest that ACORN was acting in this way." An "investigation" is something you do to gather "evidence". Are you suggesting that investigation is always entrapment?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 WTF are you talking about? He called his cousin because that's the police officer he knew. Since he had done no wrong doing himself, why not call his cousin? He was probably thinking "Holy crap. That was really weird." and immediately wanted to get the information to someone who could deal with it.
Pwells1 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 The man was probably confused on how to approach this bizarre situation, and thus called his cousin not only to report the crime, but to ask "WTF do I do, and what just happened?" and to talk about it.
As an example, lets say for instance I found out that I thought my friend had been raped a couple weeks ago, but didn't report it. But she told me some details. If I had an uncle at the police dept, I would call him FIRST to report what I knew and to ask what else I should do.
Pwells1 1 year ago
@Pwells1 "lets say for instance I found out that I thought my friend had been raped a couple weeks ago, but didn't report it. If I had an uncle at the police dept, I would call him FIRST to report what I knew and to ask what else I should do."
You would be calling your uncle because he's a biased party with a vested interest in shielding you from the law and keeping you out of jail. If you're doing the right thing, why not just call the switchboard?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Keeping me out of jail for what exactly? I'm reporting a possible rape, and that my friend might be a victim. I have nothing to fear or hide. I would call my uncle because he understands police procedure and could better inform me on what I should do. it's a tricky situation, because my friend isn't reporting it herself, and I'm not directly involved, so I don't know what to do.
Here, the guy wasn't sure on how to proceed. So he called his buddy for advice and with information
Pwells1 1 year ago
@Pwells1 "I would call my uncle because he understands police procedure and could better inform me on what I should do." Any police officer would know what to do in that situation! You specifically reporting to your uncle insinuates impropriety. Another way, why report to your family relations when you could have reported to an unbiased third party?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 That's stupid. If his cousin hadn't passed the word on, you might have a point. But he did and you don't.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "If his cousin hadn't passed the word on, you might have a point." Perhaps detective-cousin only passed along Vera's claims when it became clear Vera had been conversing with reporters. This is the question raised because Vera chose to contact a party who was partial. For the same reasons you distrust FoxNews, it would be wise to distrust all mainstream media outlets. Are your own biases hindering your scrutiny?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Yawn. Still waiting for you to explain how it would have made any difference if he had reported to a different person at the police department. You can't because it wouldn't make any difference. It's a red herring and you know it.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "Family member" equals "bias", it's really not hard to figure out. ;)
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Oh please. You still can't explain how it makes a difference in this situation. And you're still avoiding addressing the actions of the other parties involved. Wave your red herring around all you want, but like I said, you're not fooling anyone.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk ..."can't explain how it makes a difference in this situation." Why not take Vera's word at face value, that he has contacts involved in human smuggling? After suspecting he'd been stung, Vera contacts detective-cousin. If the reporters come forward with a story the detective counters by saying Vera reported their suspicious behavior. If no one comes forward, there's no report. Would Vera's cousin not be inclined to protect his family member? This is called "bias".
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 Haha you mean setting aside how far-fetched it is to think that the pair of clowns that admitted they made up the Mexican human smuggling story to discredit ACORN -- happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling? Hahaha ok, well even in that magical universe your logic doesn't make sense because it would still take the collusion of the whole San Diego police department to shield Vera in any ensuing investigation.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
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@friendofthefunk "how far-fetched it is to think that the pair"..."happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling?" Vera claims to have human smuggling contacts in Tijuana. We are to believe he's lying about this, and now being truthful?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
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@friendofthefunk "how far-fetched it is to think that the pair"..."happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling?" Are you suggesting Vera was being deceitful about this claim, and truthful in his subsequent statements? Why not simply tell the pair he would not be a party to illegal activity, or discreetly contact the authorities during the meeting?
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 "Why not simply tell the pair he would not be a party to illegal activity, or discreetly contact the authorities during the meeting?"
It seems perfectly reasonable to call the cops immediately after they leave, rather than try to "discreetly" call the cops on someone sitting across the desk from him.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
@friendofthefunk "how far-fetched it is to think that the pair"..."happened to fortuitously end up in the office of an ACORN rep that actually had contacts in Mexican human smuggling?" Not very far-fetched, when that's exactly what Vera claimed on videotape.
HerbalG123 1 year ago
@HerbalG123 @HerbalG123 Come on, use your head. By that logic, Giles is probably an actual prostitute since she said so in the video.
"Vera claims to have human smuggling contacts in Tijuana. We are to believe he's lying about this, and now being truthful?" Um yes, we are to believe he was not being truthful to the strange couple that came into his office with a crazy story, and that if he were serious about being involved in something highly illegal he wouldn't call the police about it.
friendofthefunk 1 year ago
I would bet that FOX was aware that the film footage was bogus, but since it fit their agenda it was approved and used !
luchpockets 1 year ago 2
Lying? Fox? You can't be serious!?
patriciaredstone 1 year ago
Waiting for the follow up on faux news!
MyJaySeven 1 year ago
Then people on youtube argue that foxnews is credible......
MegaMusicBoi 1 year ago 12
Great job !
Juan Carlos Vera, should up his damages in the lawsuit !
How much did these two bozos cost the country, wasting man power investigating this bogus scheme ?
Let's not forget all the people that lost their jobs and reputations !
luchpockets 1 year ago 28
@luchpockets Agreed. This should be a class action lawsuit for the hundreds that lost jobs when their funding was cut. I've read there are 20 unnamed defendants in the lawsuit as well, hopefully Hannity, Ailes and Murdoch are among them.
WarofMan 1 year ago 3
FOX distorts you decide.
muttgooch 1 year ago 4