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From: pennilesscripple
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  • Rest in peace Mr. Zinn ... =.. I

  • ;...(

  • My Sensi always has said all one needs is a robe a hut a bowl of rice and fresh water. everything else is nothing more then a want i want to able to at least get those last 2 needs meet.direction we are head may make that impossible

  • yes one out of six people on the planet don't have access to fresh water

    and if you have access to really fresh, untreated water, you are indeed blessed in these times

  • One would be terribly malnourished living on rice and water alone.

    I don't even think a child could survive to adulthood on that diet.

  • how wrong you are my young grass hopper.

    With high nutrients, rice is a good source of insoluble fiber, which is also found in whole wheat, brand and nuts. Insoluble fiber reduces the risk of bowel disorders and fights constipation. Among other nutrients, rice is rich in carbohydrates, the main sources of energy, low in fat, contains some protein and plenty of B vitamins.

  • In "some protein" the key word is "some."

    Rice is low in lysine, and essential amino acid, and is also low in Vitamin A. Deficiencies in the latter can cause night blindness.

    I'm not sure if a child could survive on a diet like this. Especially considering that, if you're eating only rice, you probably don't have very much of it to eat.

    Point is, one doesn't just want foods other than rice. One needs them.

  • an* essential amino acid

  • The Richard Grossman video you linked has been removed due to terms of use violation. Just letting you know :)

  • bummer

    weird

    thanks, saerii

    sheesh you'd think grossman would want as many people as possible to hear what he has to say

  • You are the stupid fuck who doesn't know shit!

  • true enough

  • what part of their comments gives the assumption they dont know shit? Sounded pretty intelligent to me.

  • the title is ironic

    i gave it that title because a lot of people on youtube tend to say that older people aren't trying to make a difference

  • Word!

    oNE lOVE

  • onelove

  • As in all these "progressive" videos, we are outnumbered a million to 1. For every one of us there's an untold number who worships the status quo and will have nothing to do with any change, period. Just go out during this commercial Christmas shopping madness & see how absorbed the great majority are in plastic & petroleum based products which are IMHO one step from the trash bin to continue the cycle of pollution & genocide. I'm very pessimistic. I think we're royally screwed as a society.

  • i certainly understand that sentiment, and have been there myself. but those untold numbers will cease to worship a failing system.

    also, the logical outcome of your point of view is that nothing can be done, and that's simply not an option

    if anything, feeling 'outnumbered' means it is time to fight harder

    check the video for what david suzuki says about this...as well as the video this is attached to

    if you say nothing can be done, then which side does that put you on?

  • I'm on your side! :) I was somewhat playing devil's advocate and also expressing a true sentiment, at the same time. But I'm fighting on, brother as there's -as you so well put it- nothing else one can practically do and doing otherwise is NOT AN OPTION, I agree. I kept thinking -as I made this comment- about what Suzuki says, even on this video: Shut up & get outta here! LoL I do what I can. We need this system to totally fail. Abolish money and have FREE ENERGY! Peace!

  • i disagree with jdtrickster that we are outnumbered a million to 1. at least in the sense that i think a lot of people, a lot more people than the media would have us believe are exposed to anti-civ/left/whatever ideas and have thought about the nature of our existence and realize the world is fairly shit(to be unreasonably general).

    1/2

  • however, each one exposed to anti-civ ideas continues to support civilization. there are some who have done great things(theodore kaczynski) yet their long-term impact has been minimal if it were possible for their influence to be evaluated at the present moment.

    2/2

  • regardless of whatever ideology, people will still invariably go to school, study at university, go to bars and clubs, buy alcohol, buy chocolates, buy cars-buy petrol, buy numerous items we can deem useless post-civilization.

    in other words, the cycle will continue...

    3/?????????????????

  • We are not inheriting this world from our parents, we are borrowing it from our children

  • Take the toys, from the boys- men make good chefs

  • Why all men's names, up there?

  • because they are all men?

  • I cant really identify- Matriarchy for the win! Eco-radical feminism is the way, to The Golden Age-

  • hierarchy with women in power is still hierarchy

    if you can only identify with what women say, i feel sorry for you, because you are missing out on a lot

    men are human too

    the whole point of this video is that these men are wise, caring, and doing their very best to bring forth a saner future

  • yeah eco radical feminism.

  • They've seen so much more than many of us ever have or will. We are such a short-lived species that the only people who know their assess from their elbows are the older ones. They preach to the young, who hopefully will heed them and act upon these beliefs with the enthusiasm and mental plasticity needed. Peace be with all, for we are headed for more trials than those that already face us.

  • Excellent video!!!

    David Suzuki is one of my mentors. Like he said either be part of or participate in the solution or get the fuck out of the way. And conglomerates with their culture of greed and bottom lines have been in the way for to long and have been obstructing progress (eg. GM and the EV1).

    I think it's time for direct democracy to take root and let David Suzuki and his kind be appointed as humanist/environmentalist/scie­ntific/economic/legal/medical ephors of some kind.

  • by the way ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

  • it's a plan you have been conditioned and now they want your childerens minds. don't let them. Home school or private schools.

  • i agree with all in thsi video u know why becasue its the freaking truth men. RIP GEORGE CARLIN he gave the truth in a comedians point of view

  • So what are we waiting for? Why are we still allowing our civilization to survive? How much more in denial do we have to be in? Let us give peace, love and simplicity a chance. Let us create change, one persona at a time.

    Peace to all

  • david suzuki aside all these people are white men.

  • yes

    and?

  • Who is the gentlemen at 2:22? GREAT VID! I fav'd this a while ago but am watching it again! So Poignant! Di:)

  • see sidebar

    david suzuki

  • "aged minds hold the untold stories"... Me

  • good quote soja

  • all power , all glory, all honor, all dominion, all the riches, all the fame

    What do we believe in?

    I believe in love

    period.Love is the only

    thing worth believing in everything

    else will fade and burn one day.

  • I like this message. There is something attractive about doing small things while hoping for big change. Eat an elephant one bite at a time kinda thing. Excellent.

  • yeah nlpnvc that's the way change happens

    like what if everyone just refused to use technologies of destruction?

    check out my video called 'the hummingbird and the forest fire' for a really inspiring story that speaks to the same thing

    (good grief that sounded like an ad, but it wasn't. i think you'd dig the story.)

  • There is but one answer. TAKE THE MONEY OUT OF IT. As long as the focus is money, the destruction will continue. If it's only about money...whatever the issue...refuse to cross the line. It takes being a warrior of the mind, But, it can be done.

  • I agree with you 100%

  • yeah blue like grossman says

    a lot of the work is 'up here'

    (pointing to the head)

    it helps when you know you are not alone

    and have the support of others

  • great video bro!

  • Great video, Penni...loved it.

  • thanks patti

    nice to seeya

  • YES WE DONT!

  • I dont know if the title is sarcastic...

  • Good message

  • yes books it is in response to the people who say that the older people are what is wrong with our society--when many of them are doing everything they can to address the urgent situation we are in, like these bright and aware and caring men are

  • What some of the old farts are saying is correct hey guys we have been brainwashed with the wrong shit since we were born. We need to think for ourselves :P Get ready for major changes

  • This vid is deep PC. Great work!

    EVERYBODY needs to see this and reflect on it.

  • Brilliant Compilation.

  • Everyone just needs to keep using your mobile microwave transmitting cancer/cell phones and make sure all your kids get one young, and then that's the future for the majority of humanity taken care of in a slow (50/50 after 10yrs use) incurable brain tumour sort of way. Technology really can save this planet .

  • hmmm

    i'll have to reconsider my 'technology won't save us' stance :P

    problem is, dickyco, that's mighty slow and messy

    i'd like to see us walk away from this culture of maximum harm right away--the sooner we do, the less damage there will be in the long run for humanity and the animals and ecosystems we share the planet with

    thanks for visiting

  • thats why everones getting more delusional. we have to be to let it keep going.

  • If ratings were turned on, this would be five stars.

    I hope that these young whippersnappers from the Reagan/Bush/Clinto/Bush interregnum wake up and realize thgey've been had before the last salmon dies in the Klamath.

  • young and old

    all ages

    need to awaken

  • I'm an old fart...and you're right on!! 5 stars...

  • Something need to happen soon ....if it is not allready to late....shit is getting ready to hit the fan....maybe this summer....

  • yeah i kinda have a feeling about this summer too, cheese

  • I am so tired of it all,I do not know what to do,I started a playlist called the government blues to turn some folks on to the complexities of it all...but other than that...what the hell should I do...Reminds me of a question my history teacher asked us all in 8th grade. "if you were able to go back in time with a gun and kill Hitler before the he was able to do the evil that he did, would you pull the trigger?" Are we obliged to do more than talk about these bastards? I am not a violent man..

  • ...but sometimes it looks to me that the only means of reprisal is to end some of these evil bastards, but than I think that this is the same mentality as the suicide bombers, a last ditch effort. Thomas Jeffersons said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants, it is a natural manure." Our comfy little lives of complaceant consumerism is about to change drastically...or maybe I'm just a whack job conspiracy theorist as I have been told...

  • you're not alone in the way you think and feel, cheese, not by far. and yes there are people who are doing a great deal of harm, and they need to be stopped somehow.

    i don't have any pat answers, except i know it is really important to stay in the question, to talk with others, and to be ready to take the right action at the right time.

    we need to stop agreeing to be part of the machine. if we refuse to be cogs, the culture of maximum harm will dwindle away.

  • poignantly edited, wonderfully articulated, valid compilation......

    You're posts are such a bright spot on this video medium. Continued thanks.

  • thanks kewpie

    and aw thanks for noticing the care i took with it too

    your comments are a bright spot on my videos :o)

  • i guess old farts do know after all!

  • yeah that was my point!

    we have to let go of this younger generation/older generation split

    (that was one of the errors of the sixties)

    there are some old folks who care very much about the world today, and some who don't

    and there are some young folks who care very much about the world today, and some who don't

    we need to work together

    thanks wasy

  • George carlin don't know shit? Yeah right he's smarter than any fuck who comments on this page. Hes a genius.

  • the title is a joke

    clearly all of these men are very wise

  • lol ok my bad.

  • Great vid.

    Hopefully earning money is not their main concern. If they reach the level of CEO, (usually by their main concern being money), their job will consist mainly of maximizing shareholders wealth which can directly effect the people they employ and the environment, negatively or positively depending on their opinion of what is right and wrong.

  • thanks

    good point

    maximizing wealth is portrayed as a good thing in this culture, but if you look at it closely, it causes a great deal of harm on many levels

  • That one guy said something like "people are starving more and more... and one of the reaons for that is industrialisation..."

    Excuse me, but didn't industrialisation massively increase productivity in every industry, leading to more prosperity for everywhere it touched?

  • well davy what you say is the standard propaganda about the matter, but if you look at it closely, you'll see that industrialization has brought a great deal of harm to people and the environment they depend on

    your statement is based on the assumption that economic growth equals health and happiness--there's a great deal of evidence that that is far from true

  • the prosperity you speak of is material (and debatable whether it improves life), and it doesn't help everyone it touches...it harms many...extracting the life force from people, trees, animals, etc.

    increased productivity accelerates the harm

    for example, 1 out of 6 people on earth don't have clean water. this used to be our birthright. as was healthy food. people used to be able to scoop salmon out of the rivers in baskets. if we don't stop the machine soon, there will be no salmon at all.

  • It's not debateable wether increased productivity helps people. The righteousness of somebody like yourself saying that, after you've no doubt spent time checking your email and editing together nice little videos of other white dudes who were born into countries that thankfully recognise property rights telling other people that progress is bad... haha... go live in a mud hut then dude if you hate progress so much. don't wear clothes either, or use electricity, or medicine.

  • actually davy if you check out current cultural anthropology you'll find that the indigenous people who live in mud huts are fighting valiantly to keep industrial civilization from invading their culture and their ancestral lands

    the real poverty occurs in the third world, and that poverty is created by the first world

    all cultures have medicine. most cultures have clothing--the few that don't see no need for it. no one needs electricity.

  • Lol, the 0.001% of the human population who are truely hunter gatherers in new guinea might not want prgoress. they are probably scared of cameras or something. The 99% of people in poverty in Africa are not "fighting valiently to stop industrial civilisation" rather they are trying valiently to feed themselves. Something that's difficult to do when you have tyranical goverments not respecting property rights. "the west" doesn't make people poor. Rather goverments in all guises and countries do.

  • i respectfully suggest that if you're interested in this subject, davy, that you read more in the field

    gatherer-hunters throughout history have resisted the forces of civilization because their way of living *works* & civilization doesn't work. they see that very clearly because they aren't among the brainwashed 'civilized'

    i spoke not of 'the west,' but of civilization

    if people have tyrannical govts, they aren't gatherer-hunters--they're civilized

    i agree that governments cause poverty

  • Well if your definition of civilised is one group of humans telling others what to do with the barrell of a gun then I agree, civilisation sucks. But if you think medicine, technology, electricity, architecture etc. etc. sucks then I have to disagree with you. All these things blatantly improve living for everyone who is allowed to enjoy their benefits. And it's not a zero sum game. Noody in africa *needs* to go without for us to enjoy sneakers and chocolate. If they do, it's only because of gov

  • Great video.

  • thanks

    great dudes

  • All The Young Dudes Carry The News. I interviewed Suzuki 12yrs ago. Turn up the Bowie DAMMIT!

  • heh heh it's hard to balance sound with youtube videos. i figured the words of the wise elders were more important than the bowie.

  • THE Bowie indeed at 62 remains infinitely more lucid/creative/articulate/ intellectual/hilarious/self-ef­facing and brilliant than his industry peers. You weren't suggesting that art isn't a critical function in human society were you comrade(hehe)?Had me worried for a nano-second.Bowie is easily the most diversified artist in contemporary culture to expose the widest spectrum of the arts within the public/private sphere(domain).Celebrate creative diversity, without it as a species we're f*cked.

  • Awesome red....

  • the ones who are saying something are locked in the truck. good analogy!

  • this is a very inspiring video.

    Thank you PC.

  • came back for more links.

  • Having watched your videos in a concentrated time frame, I've come to notice (at least) one thing: everybody and their grandmother uses transportation metaphors to describe "where we're headed." It's like we're all in a helicopter going straight up and we're going to suffocate in space and everyone's arguing about which way to face the chopper for the best view.

  • yeah canoes going over falls, trains going off of cliffs, helicopters going into space...it's all good heh. metaphors are really helpful because the heart doesn't understand words--it understands symbols. and we've got to reach people's hearts.

  • george carlin's got it down.

    i saw that video and hes the shit

  • Wow, extensive commentary.

    As a middle aged fart I have little to offer. My personal conclusion is that man is motivated by two things, fear and greed. The only cure for fear is security, the only cure for greed is limits.

    Never vote for a businessman to run your government. The goal of a businessman is to increase profits, and profits are always highest when things are going to ruin.

  • that's a pretty dim view of humanity there, nolike...i don't know about you, but love motivates me to do pretty much everything i do, including making this video....

    the only real security we can have comes from being connected to the earth and each other. contrary to modern belief, security can't be "bought."

    i do agree that the greedmongers make a killing, in more ways than one, from tragedy and destruction

  • In the past there have been a few men who talked a little about love. They never wrote anything down though, so all we know of them is second hand.

    I guess in my seemingly dim view, love is the security that cures fear. Love is also the way to limit greed.

    Again I have very little to offer.

    Thank you for your time

  • there have been more than a few who talked (and still do) of love, and many of them wrote things down

    yes love and connection make greed unnecessary. greed really comes from alienation, fear of lack of connection, security. when connection is in place, greed doesn't even come to mind--sharing does.

    and you have a lot to offer, nolike...thanks for visiting

  • (Pennilesscripple) Nice to meet you too sweetie! (grin) I cleaned house just in time to favorite this one! LOL Thank you my friend. (smile)

  • fantastic videos pennilesscripple

  • thank you mike

  • That's true what that guy says at the beginning.....very very true

  • pete seeger? yes

    check the sidebar for names and links

  • It's hard not to be pessimistic and to feel like it's too late, and what's the point of even trying to make a difference at this point. I feel like I just got a stern talking to by that guy, though. Ok...I'm not giving up...don't be mad at me anymore. Haha :op

  • heh yeah really

    well knowing that are other soldiers in the struggle helps

    and when you feel despair, feel despair

    it's part of it

    i feel it all the time, but it passes and i get on with the work

  • We are attacking the very foundation of nature itself ,screw the community,at this rate we facing an ecological crash on a global scale. Ever heard of wide scale population die off?

  • Wisdom takes a while to acquire, I guess.

  • thx for the links!!! -maxwell

  • *we're locked in the trunk*

    What a statement! It sure does feel that way sometimes.

  • This video is fucking awesome. Seriously. The top 2 I've seen in a long time.

  • aw man thank you everything

    i had awesome material to work with

  • bhv i didn't say anything like that. it's just that you and i have talked about these things before and we obviously can't find any common ground, and i'm not really interested in hashing over the same points repeatedly. i really don't care if you 'accept my standard of truth,' whatever that means. you have a right to your opinions. i just don't want to talk about the same issues that we've already discussed. talk all you want, just don't expect me to engage with the same questions repeatedly.

  • Nice. I love Pete Seeger's idea right at the very beginning. "I honestly believe that if the world is going to be saved, it's going to be saved by tens of millions of little things."

    Because the good things we do sometimes seem so infinitesimally tiny in the grand scheme of things. It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks there may be a point to them regardless.

  • That's comforting. Thanx RI.

  • yeah that's what i mean when i say there's no one big plan that will save the world....

  • Call me Peter. :)

  • I'm not sure if we should concern ourselves with "getting out of the trunk." When the car crashes, we'll fall out. Our job isn't to get out before the crash, our job is to make sure people don't get into the car the next time around. The seeds that we plant today will prevent us from repeating our accident tomorrow. Great video Penni!

  • thanks blue

    great point, well taken

    (extended metaphors always get me in trouble) ;^)

  • It's unfortunate but when you hit the age of about twenty nine and a half, whatever integrity, interest in truth or even sincerity you once might have had, all suddenly evaporate and never return! Penniless, this is a huge video. It's going to take me How Many Hours to check out the links, etc.

  • thanks tees you make me laugh and warm my heart

    yeah i made this video because i was watching all these awesome young old dudes and i realized that the average youtuber wouldn't even click on their videos, much less listen for an hour. i also wanted to address ageism on youtube, which flies both ways. a 15- year-old girl linked this video on her myspace page, so my work here is done.

  • That's something to feel good about.

  • his money-grubbing schemes?

    Daniel Quinn is a writer. inside of civilization you do what you are good at to make money.

    I don't really understand. You'd listen to a hobo with leaflets sooner than a published author?

  • i might listen to a poor man on a soap box sooner than an elected presedent. wouldnt you?

  • in our society, a poor man on soap box speaking truth would soon be hauled away. finding and establishing a platform so you can be heard is a necessity in this society. publishing a book provides a platform. yes i tend to listen to the underdogs instead of the overdogs. quinn, jensen, and others are underdogs who have a voice. they are pretty much constantly maligned.

  • not only are they constantly maligned, they are also not given a forum in the corporate media. national public radio, the u.s.'s 'liberal' media, has never featured jensen, quinn, jerry mander, and many others who articulate strong and useful insights about these times--never mind television--they'll never be on television, except perhaps to be ridiculed.

  • it's sad that you wish to defend profit and greed and the lie 'go buy my book and you'll feel better.' if you are tired of it PC, then let it be your decision to get out of here! I trust that you will see the importance of why people such as Daniel Quinn has a responsibility not to collude with greedy corporations in making a fast buck off people's struggle with this sick culture.

  • Well, Daniel Quinn's got a great part where he talks about civilization as pyramid scheme.

    He says civilization is great for those on top of the pyramid and awful for those on the bottom.

  • Those books ARE free. You just put them in your hand and walk or run away.

    They just say things cost money. We've got to stop reinforcing that bullshit.

    Just because Daniel Quinn made it in civilization and succumbed to its greed doesn't mean when he says "this culture is based on greed" it's not true.

    I've spent 20 years worshipping greed. some of you have spent a lot more than that.

  • i need them on the internet because they are not published in english in spain. so i cant steal them.

  • i'll mail them to you, paul. let me know where to send them, and what books you want to read.

  • if you give me your address, i'll give you my address, you mail me enough money for packaging fees, and i'll mail you my copy. (the only reason you need my address is because i actually only own about three dollars. this is also a reason why i don't just get up and buy a plane to africa and learn how to live in the bush. because i don't have money for a plane ticket.

  • if i can raise the money for your plane ticket to africa i will you promise to go?

  • if you live in industrial civlization, you are not allowed to live the way that people lived for 99% of their existence. if you live outside of industrial civilization, your culture is under severe threat (and you're not on youtube). 'going off somewhere and living outside of civilization' may have been a short term solution for some, say in the 1800s, but it is no longer an option. it can't be done alone...it requires community.

  • lol, i'm bored. think i'll go to africa, tra la! i like the scenery its pretty there! bush what bush? i hear there are some great gated condo communities in zanzibar, why, some of them come with jaccuzis and free maid service to scrub out the tub for ya... slaves? who's a slave? what's the rent cost? an average african's annual salary for one month of gracious gated condo living. cheap, by american standards...

  • great! i'll email you may address and leave it to whatever you recommend.

  • no lending libraries in spain? hard to believe that, angry p. no bookstores that carry, or can order, books published elsewhere? really?

  • dude you are a fool

    all we ever bitch about is "i'm a slave i'm trapped we've been conditioned i'm a slave we're all slaves"

    and your ass says "Well, gee, shucks. You should stop being a slave!"

    coming from the slave

    in the cell

    with the chains

    where's your file?

  • dude my lame ass is telling me that RISISTANCE can be begun by refusing to let ANYONE including bourgeois intellectual novelists tell me how to live.

  • Ok. Daniel Quinn's advice is "there's no right way to live." YOu can take his advice or not take his advice but as long as you take THAT advice, even if you call it your own advice, that's cool.

    Wait: there is no right way to live, but if your way to live kills me, or my planet, or my land, i'ma fuck you up.

  • they're not telling you how to live, paul, and neither am i. they're just speaking their truth. you can choose to listen to their truth or not. no one is saying 'you must live this way.' in fact, most of the people we're talking about care that you are allowed to be paul, just paul. right now that's not an option.

  • if you are in the system, you are in the system, and you chant it down from within its walls, using whatever tools you have available

    if you are outside of the system, you defend yourself from its encroachments, because you know it will soon come to enslave and/or destroy you and your people

  • it never ceases to amaze me how youtube culture has an automatic (mostly negative) reaction to form and ignores content--of all the comments on this video, very very few actually continue and engage with the conversation/content found in the video

    jensen is very generous with sharing his work on his website if you are interested in doing something other than being youtubic

  • there are also a number of good videos--redpharmacist has a good playlist, and there are some extended talks on philosopherseed

  • Did this video get flagged? There's no honours now.

  • no. the daily honors go away at some point (who knows when) each day.

  • and i guess it didn't reach any week / month honors, or anything for a subcategory.

  • it could still get there. share it, favor it, feature it, etc. its an enormous tube and there is no end to the possibilities if we keep trying.

    best2u ghost!

  • i don't know...the day switched or something, or perhaps the assassination bumped everything down. doesn't really matter, but thanks for the concern.

  • it's too bad i didn't see the video sooner, i would have left more comments to float it higher.

  • aw thanks that's kind of you

    i don't really care for youtube faminess

    but i would like to see these old farts get listened to

    when i listened to richard grossman, i realized very few people on youtube would listen to his talk because it's an hour long and everyone on youtube has a 21st century attention span. i figured even five minutes was pushing it ha....

  • well, i wasn't thinking of fame, just the importance of spreading the message to as many people as possible. i wouldn't have seen the video if i hadn't been scanning most discussed.

    as for attention span.. what can you do? there's just so much to filter and watch even for the patient people. thanks for this teaser.

  • that's great yeah i was really happy when i started seeing unfamiliar folks commenting...that was my intention

  • BTW, why call this video, "old farts don't know shit" ?

    Firstly I don't think you see the people on here as "old farts", and nor do I think you want people to think of these peopls as "old farts" who "don't know anything". Was it just shock value title???

  • i've always felt that these sort of videos should have been the top watched and discussed videos on YouTube. this is what really matters.

  • yeah sigh me too. this is the only conversation that matters given our current situation.

    but while the world burns, we can watch videos of ice cream melting.

  • Sustainability is the key to the future and now.

  • yeah ghost we just have to be really clear about what 'sustainability' means as the corporatocracy is co-opting that word as fast as it can. the ceo of wal-mart is now talking about 'sustainability' and 'going green.' by my definition of the word that would mean he would announce that he was going out of business--by his definition it means he hopes to increase his business by appealing to the 'green market'.

  • i know what you mean, i cringe when i see advertisements that are promoting themselves as green just because 1 or 2 miles were added to the gallon or a light bulb was switched.

  • yeah for example i just saw a toyota ad that says "toyota and lexus hybrids around the world have kept billions of pounds of CO2 out of the atmosphere." no they haven't. they have put billions of pounds of CO2 *into* the atmosphere.

  • Man has artificially extended his life span, creating a world that's unfit to live in.

    "cant stop progress" , yet - we*can - choose how - its created . . .

    BL*M

  • yeah we can stop it

    and it's not progress!

  • stopped it is not progress, guided toward a sustainable reality is progressive, stopping it, is simply creating more of the same, a cycle of abuse and violent change . . .

  • i meant stop the harm, peaceprofit

    to me the standard economic/industrial/political use of the word "progress" is synonymous with "harm" and actually means the opposite of "progress"

  • good point there PP

  • these old farts are awesome.

  • aw my loss on the crazy long poofed post

    thanks for the appreciation lampy

    "crucial"...oh my....

    that's my best christmas present :o)

    crucial dudes

  • I'd comment, but I don't know shit.

  • heh HEH heh heh

  • Let's talk about the system. Does the system create the person, or do the people create the system?? If it is both...

    how does one change a system when the system has made the person? One must go against everything that he knows..

  • okay mista i'll bite. i was just thinking about this earlier. let's use dick cheney as an example. he is a very successful end product of his culture. if he had been born into the piraha tribe, would he have grown up to be the dick cheney we know? or would he have been someone who valued sharing over hoarding, connection over dissociation, etc.?

  • i would argue our culture created him--so when people say we need to get rid of the 'bad men,' they are just the end products of industrial civilization, which is going to 'raise' greedy, destructive people.

  • dick cheney is a very good example of the end result of civilization. good call.

    i think probably not everything is genetic... he would have been genetically inclined to be a certain way--domineering and pathological--but he would have learned to not favor that aspect of his character by living in a society that didn't favor that in anyone's character. Or is that naive?

    Have we totally changed to suit civilization? I vaguely remember me saying something like I wasn't suited for civilization.

  • tribal cultures discourage egotism and self-serving behavior. our culture encourages it. none of us are suited to civilization. if you look at (alternative, not schoolroom) history, you'll see a pattern of resistance to civilization throughout the ages. like hakim bey says in this video, in spite of all of it, we find ourselves and find each other.

  • I've read A People's History of the U.S. Just like there has been resistance to civilization, civilization is a wholesale protest of tribalism. I think one without the other is destined to fail. For just as traditional collapses of civilizations leave behind the wreckage of dead cities, so too does the collapse of tribes result in the formation of them. Communication and commerce are what civilization has to offer.