well i disagree of what you are saying. i love the way mark kielar teach. at least he's teaching the truth about gods word, cause we all know that regarless of our own opinion gods word and the truth in it still gone stand. i rather listen to the truth than a lie. we got enough false prophet's in the world as it is.
What is this? The pope of Rome digging up the bones of John Wycliffe after the man of God went home to be with the Lord? We would not have had an abolitionist movement without Finney. Have any of you read Donald Dayton's book the Discovering an Evangelical Heritage? Winkie Pratneys book on Revival? Both of these authors give high marks to Finney's consecration to God. Just because you have a preference for ministry does not nullify another man's work. Like others Finney dealt issues of his day.
You people are a disgrace! Have you ever read anything that Finney taught? You and your MAN-MADE "tulip" doctrines. You twist God into a being worse than Hitler and then call that Love and say that everyone else is teaching false doctrine. You are so arrogant and sure that you have it all figured out that you are willing to abandon logic in the name of your interpretation of the Bible. This video is a complete sham!
What is wrong with you people!!!! Such distortion and twisting of other people's words!!! And you claim to be christian. What a joke! (The first line of the recording being played is so blatantly over-interpreting!) You are forcing your opinion, which doesn't in anyway resemble the bible, on to other people. Jesus Preaching wasn't dry or passionless... was it?
Finney was clearly demonized just look at his eyes if you can see. He taught salvation by good works, deeds, being good & doing the right thing in an effort to distract people from the truth that a person can never DO ENOUGH to get into heaven. We must accept Jesus and he gives us HIS righteousness and forgives our sins. This is what the Bible teaches but Finney appeals to mans pride by teaching that you can live a good life on your own and that you don't need the righteousness of Christ.
I've read Finney's journal. The guy speaking about Finney obviously didn't read the journals. He was pretty tough and definitely NOT a Joel Osteen type. The audio guy being quoted with the "background on Finney" seems like a liar to me. Finney could be harsh, Biblical, and legalistic, but he also had heavy-duty guilt-tripping. He definitely knew about the work of grace. It's best to be honest when we challenge Christians. Picking and choosing scattered comments makes you look dishonest.
Christians will continue to be confused and easily led astray until they wake up and realize that Paul was the full embodiment of anti-Christ predicted by both Jesus and Peter. Christ is the answer, not Paul's self-admitted hypocritical 'righteousness'.
god requires faith and works? but do we muster those up ourselves? both are are gifts. we can do no work pleasing to god nor can we have true faith unless we have been changed by god. born again.
So Finney was an apostate because he did not agree with your heresies.
Jesus said the path is narrow and many will not find it.
Do you understand that 100% of your doctrines are solely based on Paul's epistles? You totally reject every word spoken by Jesus about the law, even making doctrines to make Jesus word redundant, you call this dispensational theology. Jesus says to repent, He speaks may parables concerning works and salvation, but you want cheap grace, is the God of Sinai Dead?
Ok honestly what glory is this bringing to God. All we have is people fighting against other people. First of all the video lied because if you look at history Finney had an 85% success rate with conversion. The reason revival happened everywhere he went was before a revival he would always have all of the leaders pray for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I just want to say whoever posted this video lacks love and intimacy and therefore I must question their salvation. I will pray for you.
Charles Grandison Finney led millions, indirectly and directly to the Cross. Doesnt sound like a flop to me. Matbe more study should be taken..............Love Ya..............Rev. Charles Finney
It's very sad that Asahel Nettleton, a Calvinist evangelist who was a contemporary of Finney, is virtually ignored by the church, as he brought true conversions through the Spirt, and not through hyped-up altar calls.
What ignorant butchery. I have read Finney's autobiography
And Finney's Systematic Theology. He called the Pastors to pray for as long as it took for God to move. People were getting saved before they even heard Him from the presence of God with him. What hear say and falseness is being spewed here. I am not sure how attacking a dead man is preaching Christ. Already Finney is ahead of this video author.
I love the words "clearly taught." I see it time and again that the only Christians that truly understand the Bible are the reformed thinkers. The thing is, you can't understand God's Word unless you are one of the elect. God is not regenerating anyone that He doesn't choose, so you CAN'T understand Bible Truth. You are lost and will forever be lost. God hates you and doesn't want you to be able to understand. Guys like Comfort, White, Piper, Driscoll are the elected ones to give you Truth
@razputin34 The Bible is God's Word and the Truth is there to be mined. If you want to know Christ, simply come to Him. God presents to us a way and we have a choice. Any person can come to Him and ask for forgiveness. You can choose this life or turn to Him and let Him lead your life. It is really that simple. Either this world is your master or Christ is. God has revealed Himself to us. You must recognize that is His way and not your way. Relationships are about commitment and trust.
@razputin34 You're wrong about that God loves them He hates their sin that's why He sent Jesus just so He could be close to them and eliminate their sin that He hates. The whole Bible is about God trying to get close to man and man rejecting Him. Do you know God? God did not speak through you just now.
@kindahokey I am not sure you understood what I was saying. My point was that if Calvinism is correct, then God doesn't love people that He forces to go to hell. I am not a Calvinist. That statement was aimed at them. I don't understand their views on God at all. Listen to Mr. Kielar. This man says things that sound borderline ridiculous. I am one that believes that God loves us and sent His son to die for us. I have some differing views on the nature of the Atonement.
The Apostle Paul and the entire first century church never heard of trinitarianism. It's a catholic doctrine. Lord please help everyone to understand that you have always been a binitarian. The Father and the Son. The two are one. There is none other. Thank you that we believers are all filled with your spirit. Thank you that it is forever. We love you.
Lane, i wanted to send you an email concerning Finney (i don't care for the argumentation from either side of this silly debate) but i noticed that i couldn't send you an email unless we were youtube friends
Charles Finney is recorded as being the only evangelist who has let thoundsands to christ with very few people back slidding.
This man from LaneCh is tryin to compare the failures of the church today with Charles F. You can't do that the church of todays evanglism are big failures for sure but it does not have its roots in Charles F. Most church's wouldn't even invite Charles F to preach because they do not like to know about their sin.
@lovethecaribbean1 The thing is I don't know why a Calvinist is worried about any of these "false" teachers. The elect cannot be snatched away by false doctrine. The elect WILL come to Christ and nothing can thwart that. Why waste an ounce of time discussing "heretics?" They are babbling jibberish to the elect. Finney has no power over the true believers. He can't "fool" the elect. The man who is elect will hear the truth and will be drawn to Christ, not hoodwinked by Finney.
Finney died 135 years ago....he doen't influence today. These guys are building up a straw man and then tearing him down with their great wisdom. This Mark Kielar may be a real smart feller but he is one arrogant little punk too! I'm not violent but I'd like to jack this dudes jaw just once.
this is ungodly false character assasination. based on LIES and misrepresentations.. but that is comon among people like lane and kiefer. The self contradiction is funy to. If God elects those who are saved, how could finey turn people away because of his failed method hardenign them agaisnt Christ? You pharasidical calvanists need to get your doctrine straight.
Exegesis is key I will grant, but that is not what you are giving here. In fact you are pulling pieces of history and ignoring others to speak out against a man and the church I find this frightening to say the least. You have fallen into the category of Pharisee. Though you have some to what end are you using it. To seek the kingdom and Guide, no, but to bash those that are teaching. Remember: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Just think before you speak.
@DarknessEats You are correct. the accounts of Finney speaking out against the church of the day were in fact against the method and that there was a total lack of passion for a lost world. To compare Finney to some of what is going on in Mega churches around the U.S. is a great leap and one I would caution against.
This video is a total mis-representation of Finney all done to protect Calvinism. At the outset of his life, Finney was a bored to death, desperate for Christ, Presbyterian-Congregationalist until Baptisted by Jesus Christ with the Holy Ghost. He then became a modern day, Paul.
OMT: No doctrine has caused more converts to backslide than, Calvinism. Think about as you formulate your excuses.
We weren't born depraved and your interpretation of the passage is skewed. Read Romans 1, especially vs 28 (also written by Paul). Tell me, did men believe God at the outset, i.e., before God handed them over to do the depraved thing?
This is a good point. My church isn't like this, but there are some churches who say 'no redemption necessary' and such lies. This is why it is important for christians not only to live a christian life, but to guard their own hearts from decite.
Just curious, when was all this found out? Leonard Ravenhill always spoke good of him. Thank God for the internet so people are able to expose these wolves worldwide.(Charles Finney, not Ravenhill of course).
@blakeash2 thank god for the internet because you chose to believe these twisted messages? Oh, finey is bad now because this twit whereever he is from gave some absurd lie filled misrepresentation of a man? Finey is evil, but men must know verses from romasn 9 to be "correctly" saved. What a pathetic joke. SHAME on these people!
I don't understand your beef; you have a calvinist ax to grind, so the elect whoever they, are will be saved regardless of who is spreading the word, Finney or some calvinist who passes your litmus test. do you just find it annoying that not all Christians subscribe to your calvinist dogma?
Finney was one of the worst heretics that America ever produced. He was a Pelagian, rejected humanity's natural depravity, and preached works-salvation. He was not a servant of God but a servant of the devil.
@jubetuber Interesting comment, you know that Jesus required faith and works. Read Revelation; we will be judged by our deeds, those lacking deeds are written in the book of death.
Why is this lane channel filled so much with videos that attempt to justify Calvinism? Where are the videos justifying Christianity History? Where are the vidoes trying to prove that the Bible is true? ... Why do so many calvinist spend the majority of their time defending calvinism before Christianity itslef? I think lots of people need to spend more time in the bible! Be sure of your own salvation and preach the Word of God, not the word of Calvin! God will sort out the sheep from the goat....
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Timothy 4:16)
If one is to defend Calvinism one must study the Bible. Calvin was a man who studied the scriptures deeply and passionately, it just so happens that his study of God's sovereignty and grace had a label placed upon it. Calvinism, mainly God's sovereignty over all and his grace given to men who are unable to obtain it on their own, is Christianity itself.
As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." Romans 3:10-12
In the beginning, to clear any doubt that all men are wicked, the Spirit directs Paul to clarify with, "not even one." This means that at any point in history no person has ever been righteous. If we aren't born depraved, then this verse isn't true.
We weren't born depraved and your interpretation of the passage is skewed. Read Romans 1, especially vs 28 (also written by Paul). Tell me, did men believe God at the outset, i.e., before God handed them over to do the depraved thing?
Ormly, I will investigate with an open mind any instances of someone that preached this doctrine of Calvinism (only describing it through scripture) that was a 'bane' if you provide me with a link. I will consider your point of view if you provide me with evidence. Just let me know.
Would you say the same thing of Christ, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc. who all called for the silencing of incorrect doctrine? Finney's theology is widely accepted, yet if one accepts his beliefs they deny the Gospel. It's sad how some people limit Christianity to soul winning and nothing else... I believe YOU are the one in need of reading your Bible, dear brother.
At it's base, Finney's idea of a God that desperately wants to save all, is non-Biblical. Oh yes, it is popular, but then so were the messages of the false prophets at the time of Jeremiah.
Is it any wonder, though, that the undiscriminating forgiveness and unthinking acceptance of Finney's 'God' should reveal its shallowness once the music has died down and the sermons fade in the memory?
I think a glance at the context will show 1 Timothy 2:4 is referring to all KINDS of men, even including the kings, etc. who were lreaady persecuting the followers of Jesus. Only God knows the identity of the Elect, written on the Book of Life. Therefore we should always pray for our leaders, for who knows what God has in store?
For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.(Romans 9:15-16)
But didn't Jesus also physically blind Paul and talk to him directly? Paul also had most of the Old Testament memorized, as he was a Jewish scholar. Paul had a vast knowledge of the scriptures. Finney, however, did not. I think that was the point the video was trying to make. Would you say that is an accurate statement?
Joel Osteen has reached more people in his life than Jesus did when he was on earth. Would you say he is doing the right thing? Noah was a preacher for a over a century and he didn't convert anyone. Would you say he did the right thing? If you say that great numbers is the mark of Gods anointing, that, my friend, is pragmatism. This would mean that Jesus and Noah were both terrible failures.
I dont see God moving in revival through Joel Osteen. and if you think that by Joel having people pray a prayer is "reaching" them, that my friend, is blasphemy.
I totally agree, that is exactly my point. Finney had large numbers (just like Osteen) but no real Spirit filled, lasting fruit. Osteen's ministry is blasphemous. The number of people coming to hear you or making confessions of faith in your presence has nothing to do with God. Lasting fruit is the true test. Example: Osteen has more people listening to him than John Piper. Which person's ministry will have lasting fruit?
TurretinFan seems to be attempting to sort out a controversy between two others. What he did say about Finney is for the most part accurate, as far as quoting what Finney said. I think understanding what he said is taken out of the greater context of what he was teaching and it is taken out of the context of his message and theology as a whole.
I've read everything I could get my hands on by Finney and the above video is mistaken distortion at best.
Western New York is still a burned over area. This is not at all surprising that there has never been another genuine revival since Finney crusaded around the area. I know this firsthand because I spent two-thirds of my life there.
I guess since I have to answer to your condescension (and your reply to my question WAS condescending), I'll ask again. John, will you please tell me if you've ever been through Western New York?
that's just the thing... these quotes are not in context. I've read dozens of Finney sermons, and his systematic theology. This is not an accurate accounting of his message or ministry, or even close.
I don't know. My impression is he doesn't lie, at least in his videos. Getting back top your question, though - how do you manage your continual lying? Was it built up in stages or born fully-formed? Enquiring minds need answers(!)
I'm not sure what "jingling30" meant. My ego or Finney's? I've read Finney's autobiography, several sermons, a biography by Lewis Drummond, and 3/4 of his "Lectures on Revival". No, I haven't read his Systematic Theology yet.. However, I think I have read enough by and about Finney to have a fairly good idea as to what he taught. And, yes, his ego often rears its head in his writings.While I admire his energy and his forceful, convicting preaching, much of his theology is in error.
Yes, there is a danger of antinomianism resulting from a misguided understanding of Calvinism just as there is a danger of legalism in a misguided understanding of Arminianism. What the Christian needs to do is to see which teaching is most in line with Scripture. Personally, reading through the Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians leads me to believe that Calvinism is the correct interpretation.
I'm not sure what happened to my first post, but the narrative to which I refer is Charles Finney's autobiography, which I read some years ago, After all, I had read some remarkable sermons in pamphlets put out by Last Days Ministries and wanted to learn more about this evangelist. Certain elements in the biography were disturbing, however. Yes, Finney had a lawyer's mind and could present his arguments effectively. However, he should have used scripture to back up his arguments,
(continued) ...but I couldn't help but detect a streak of arrogance throughout his narrative. First, his denial of original sin and that man has a sinful nature. Second, that he was ordained in the Presbyterian Church despite the fact that he admitted that he was actually ashamed of the Westminster Confession. Third, the way he stood in front of the Presbyterian divines and declined theological training saying that he didn't want to end up preaching like any of them. Talented? Yes. Humble? Hmm..
Calvinist are the most rediculous groups of people. The modern church is very apostate, but to claim Finney's theology has anything to do this is wrong. This is a bad attempt to ruin Finney because he believed the Bible teaches the free will of man. God created man in His own image-- God has intellect, emotions, and will-- thus, so does man.
I go to a renound calvanist church and they are all living Antinomianist. They just live off the curt tails of their pastor. They spout cliches and cannot articulate a single doctrine via scripture
Finney denied scripture... period! Theology is the study of religion. There is no faith in theology. By faith through grace we are saved. God hardens harts. It has little to do with false doctrine. Finney's doctrine was so successful because it scratched itching ears, but remember those who have itching ears gather teachers who will provide them with what leases their flesh.
This is slander and garbage. You misrepresent the man totally. A. Read Systematic Theology for yourselves people and the truth of it will open your eyes to many things, not least of which is why this video was made to put down Finney: because his theology was unanswerable to this person's heroes and made them look foolish because it showed how nonsensical their doctrine was.
So do you deny original sin and penal substitutionary atonement?
(PS. This is your warning: Stay away from ad hominems. For one they don't help your arguments. Two, the employment of them show how ignorant a person is. Three, you will be blocked if you persist.)
Didn't you just employ an Ad hominem on the above by saying he's ignorant for using Ad hominems?? lol. What is this a fascist policing state?? He didn't say anything unreasonable he just expressed a perfectly legitimate view.
@LaneCh Who are you to judge a devout man like Finney who got the good fruit of results while you in your theological castle look down upon him who is unable to be here to defend himself. You vainly judge your better. What are your Evangelical credentials to post spiritual darkness?
Produce concrete evidence to back up your claims! I for one would like to see it. The issue is too important to just make blanket statements without support.
@Faustulus777: All one has to do is read Finney's preface in his "Lectures on Systematic Theology" to see the gross error. Much less the rest of the book.
@Faustulus777 This guy IS a Calvinistic blasphemer but ALL Arminian/lose your salvation are "Arminian works devils'' who believe in salvation by WORKS. ALL'' lose your salvation'' is salvation by works. Only Calvinism worships the devil as much as '' lose your salvation''
@toobfunnybunny I have not read Finney, so I am not going to comment directly on that point. Why does it matter if Finney is false teacher? He can't fool any of the elect. Why would Calvin care if Servetus was preaching anti-trinitarian doctrines? They have no power over the elect. No one can snatch those elect from Jesus and those elect WILL be raised up on the last day. This was all predestined correct? Finney is only doing what God wants him to be doing.
Although I agree this video does not do the man justice at all, I agree that the ad hominems should stay away. That aside, I would like to know why the only way people attack Finney is by getting at his young beliefs and seemingly innocent ideas of old.After conversion, his distaste for Counterfeit Conversion was very Christlike in my eyes. People would shout in the middle of his services because of the convictions they had. From my studies of him, he never "played to the crowd"
Well, there is a lot of truth to Billy Sunday's guilt. That is a good film. But Finney is not without any guilt in the process, and his evangelism tactics were responsible for the flop that followed the 2nd Great Awakening.
Hahaha, love how it says teaching with stories and in a gripping manner is unbiblical, and that the men who dont have the spirit cant understand whats of the spirit. Have you ever read Jesus' preaching, overflowing with parables and allegories to make it applicable to all men, not the elite few. lol. Neo-calvinism when will they learn..
gassfactor SAID: Have you ever read Jesus' preaching, overflowing with parables and allegories to make it applicable to all men, not the elite few. lol.
The bible says: Mat 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
I acknowledge what you're saying but the bible makes it pretty clear that Jesus came as the 'saviour of all men' (1 tim: 4.) The point I was making in reference to the video is that Paul the apostle clearly says that he'll become 'all things to all men' in order to spread the gospel, and if that means engaging with people with philosophy, stories, debates, parables, comedy etc then he'll do it.There is simply inadequate biblical support upon which to construct the Theology of evangelism stated.
Right, all kinds of men... Not just Jews. But not ALL men are going to be saved, so you cannot say He is the savior of all men in a sence of ALL, but in that all races, tribes, and tongues will be saved by Christ, and only by Christ.
I believe the biblical support is not only adequate, but historically displayed and extensively expounded by faithful ministers of church history.
Thankyou for the point, but I was not arguing that the bible proposes Universalism. What I was saying is that Jesus was reaching out to men from all social and religious strata displaying an intent to reach them. He was opposed to those who had already hardened their hearts in religious hypocrisy. Feel free to disagree but I again state the belief that there is no substantial biblical evidence for this monumental doctrine. Although I am intrigued as to what you mean by historically displayed?
I am glad that is not what you meant. But, people are saved by a work in their hearts that is done when disciples preach the Word (or the gospel) and the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, and shows them the truth of Christ, according to the Word of God. At this time, that person repents and trusts Christ's work for their salvation and they are saved. And God does this all through the bible without comedy, or cool t-shirts, or altar calls. Though those things aren't evil in themselves.
So you don't believe any non-christians, or people who haven't heard the gospel preached are ever convicted of sin?! You have a theoretical layout here but let's be honest about reality. And secondly the soteriological position of the bible is considerably more complex than the one your asserting, I suggest you come to grips with second temple Judaism's belief system first. Calvin was constructing Theological super-structures on the basis of very rare passages which are often contradicted.
Wrong, "God is the savior of all men, especially those that believe" 1 tim 4:10
It is obvious here that there are two types of people being referred to, those that believe and all other men(those who dont believe). God is the savior of both believers and unbelievers. But he is especially the savior of believers in that we are saved by faith, whereas they are saved by fire(1 Cor 3:15).
(1 Cor 15:22)As in adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive. The same word in the greek for all is used for both those that are made alive and those that die. The same all which die because of Adam, and we know that means every single person ever born on the planet, are the same all that will be made alive in Christ. Or are you trying to say only some of all types die because of Adam? I dont think so.
Context. All almost never actually means all. We say all, all the time. No we don't. All is addressed to the audience... The bretheren [v.1] then followed by pronouns of you, we, ye, etc. The all is specifically refering to THOSE THAT FELL ASLEEP IN CHRIST [v. 18, 20] and to we, that is believers.... the brethren. You must follow the pronouns to get the right context.
first of all, if you are saying all means only some in that passage when it says shall be made alive in Christ, then only some people die in adam. The same word and the same usage apllies to the comparison being made between them. You aregument breaks down in that light as we all know all means all when it applies to who dies because of original sin. The same all that die are the same all that will be made alive.
Do you remember Jesus's explanation for WHY He spoke in parables?
so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
"To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables
I don't like this video because I do not like Calvinism and it's false teaching called "Eternal Security" . I think it's all bunk and unbiblical. I agree with the man above who assails systematic theology.
Systematic Theology is JUNK. It supposes that One person or a few people can discern all the nature of scripture once and for all. then bend everything to it.
All it does is pull verses out of context and force them into a preconceived pattern that looks good on the surface but is FLAWED because it never lets the text speak for itself.
Maybe you should all do a study about Darby and his life. He was a Scottish mason and a complete wolf in sheep's clothing as well.
This video begins with a dishonest representation of what Finney says then proceeds to destroy the straw man. Finney spoke against the lust for entertainment. The unction Finney regarded necessary was that which comes from honest inward conviction that drives a person to live what he teaches rather than rattling off empty words with no real concern or conviction.
If you are going to oppose Finney, please do so speaking truthfully about what he says rather than lying and opposing the lie.
The video provides quotes and you provide rhetoric. Prove the inaccuracy you are claiming with facts. At the end of his life, Finney realized that his twisted theology and psychological tactics were problems and regretted it.
This kind of nonsense still infects the church today.
I love it when I see Christians such as Ironclad understanding the what's behind today's evangelical "preaching". What we all need to get is the fact that the Kingdom of God is RELATIONAL! We gotta get out of this legal, quip pro quo, courtroom attitude.
Imagine if Peter had not given an altar call at Pentecost. Imagine if he said, after the men cried out "what must we do?" Imagine if he said, "well, you can't respond right now because you may not be sincere. Wait a while to see if you are sincere or not and then we will show you what you must do." Imagine that?
there was no altar call...he was responding to the cry of the people. you said it yourself.
Peter was responding to an obvious work of the Spirit, he had no time to make an altar call. if the same thing happened in churches today, again, there would be no need for an altar call but just to keep preaching the gospel.
I do not know who or what JTTN ministries is. I really do not care. But whoever or whatever it is, it is nothing that can discern truth. Finney, Hybels, and Rick Warren are heretics. Finney's Systematic Theology is pure rubbish. Mark Kielar is a Godly man.
JTTNMinistries, have you watched this CrossTV series or heard this sermon completely through? If not, then why are you employing a double standard in stating that someone has to read something in its entirety to comment on portions of it that they have read/heard when you say, "I almost guarantee he hasn't read Finney's Systematic Theology." then, in the very next sentence say, "This video is pure propaganda." (draw a conclusion on this sermon based on a snippet). That's called hypocrisy, sir.
I have watched this series that is available here on YouTube and your other Finney videos. That is how I know this video is pure propaganda because it either 1) Is ignorant of Finney's actual theology (which I hope) or 2) Has intentionally and willfully misrepresented Finney.
Now it is your turn. Please answer if you have read his Systematic Theology through or if the narrator has to your knowledge.
By the way Finney NEVER stated that Salvation is a work of man
Ah, you see, there's a difference between dodging a question and determining the validity of one. Asking the informal logical fallacy of the loaded question doesn't help your position, either.
Here's the case. You asked if I had read a complete work of Charles Finney before judging what I had read. You now have answered that you haven't heard this entire sermon before judging that "This video is pure propaganda." So, not that I agree with your inane standard, but why do you employ it when it's clear by your own admission that you don't follow that standard yourself when determining the validity of what someone has said?
Again, sir, that is called hypocrisy, and the only way of addressing it is by rightly calling it out. So your assertion that I was "dodging the question" is hereby refuted along with your hypocritical standard for making conclusions about the statements people make without reviewing an entire work by them which you, self-admittedly, don't follow yourself. Now's the time to save some face and admit that your standard is inane, and you've demonstrated that you don't follow it yourself.
What is there ambiguous about it? I've watched this program, the "Finney said salvation is the work of man" video and "dangers of Charles Finney's Theology" all the others I could find on your LaneCH.
Please eventually answer this question. Have you read Finney's Systematic Theology?
I hope the answer is a resounding NO because if you have it was been horribly misrepresented.
I see. Well, that would be kind of hard to listen to the entire sermon on Youtube since it isn't posted on Youtube.
Now, since you don't hold to your standard of doing things, why are you trying to put the same standard on others? Again, sir, that's called hypocrisy. If I can't make conclusions about people's theology based on portions of what I've seen/read, why is it alright for you? Again, I am addressing your question. I'm just proving that it's an inane standard that you don't follow.
Sir you are deliberately lying about a man of God. You are headed for hell fire if you don't repent. Repent of your false religion of Calvinism and live.
Repent of your lies and misrepresentation of both Finney and men like myself who are exposing your lies
Why don't you address your hypocrisy (either by affirming it and repenting or proving, although I don't know how you could honestly, that you don't hold a hypocritical double standard). After that, perhaps someone might find your new critique persuasive and reputable. I believe it was you earlier who was addressing the subject of dodging issues... hmmm?
I'm not doing anything hypocritical. I've watched everything possible on this subject I have found plus read on other websites. You are judging falsely and show that YOU are the hypocrite.
You're a false teacher misrepresenting a man of God which is a damnable thing to do.
I see. Not only are you a Pharisee by definition (minus the Jewish heritage), but you're an unrepentant one. Very telling. Thank you for demonstrating the strength of the "humbleness and humility" of your religion for all to see here. Have a great life.
LaneCh, you said: Keep in mind I'm not asking for your subjective opinions regarding Finney. Those are irrelevant..."
Uhhh... Perhaps you'd like to properly source this material??? I mean, apparently someone did actually bother to speak this message, but there was no attempt to do what you are asking of others, namely, to document it, and with context. So, until you do that, you are a hypocrite.
Um... go to a comment I made on this very video about 11 months ago. There I provide two links to even more source material from Finney and two pastors who comment on that actual source material. I've also provided primary quotes with citations on other videos about him before. Perhaps in the future it would help to do a little more research before you make generalizations about people.
sad but true-this is a perfect hitjob.I can't understand how this person got from "Finney was bored with the preaching in his town" to "because of this Finney's viewed preaching should be entertaining" This is rubbish, purely suggestive and subtle trickery.
God works in many ways (stress work).He spoke everything into existence but created man with his hand.He showed his power in Egypt, but he did nothing similar in bring the exiles from Babylon
How many modern day evangelists spend weeks in prayer before going to a town to preach. Also, as Ravenhill recalls and to paraphrase, "Finney never made an alter call in the first 3 weeks of any crusade. He would preach, preach, preach until peoples consicences came alive, until they had nightmares, and they'd stop him in the streets and cry out is there any mercy?"
Ravenhill also recalls that Finney had a larger number of true converts then most other (yes even reformed) revivalists.
This video is absurd and is boredline a lie straight from hell itself! To tie modern day evengelism to Finney is absurd. It is blatant to see that this person has a hidden religous agenda to promote. There is enough legitimate concern over Finneys systematic theology that we need not produce GARBAGE and outright lies like this. What religion devoid of the Holy Spirit I see here. So disappointed that you would stoop this low Lane.
Not to justify or defend Finney, but... The more people you can "call to Christ" the better. The "Predestined" will come forward and the others were lost anyway. In order to call out the predestined doesn't someone have to introduce them to Jesus? I must still be missing something about Calvinism...
I agree with you about calling people to Christ. BUT we have to call them by the means of PREACHING THE WORD OF GOD. THAT is the call. It is not: "Are you a sinner?... So pray this prayer." The thing about this false-calling is that it trys a different way of calling people to Christ, a man's way to call them to Christ, and that leads to distruction. To expose sin, and the sinful nature of man, and tell them about the gospel. Paul Washer does it very well. Modern preacher DON'T expose sin.
I've been reading "Revivals Of Religion" by Finney, and contrary to what you Calvinist say, he DOES state that man will never obey God apart from the influence of God's spirit. Now stop slandering a man of God who is not even alive to defend himself!
Can you provide the primary source material for this, and we can read what he's written in context? Finney has explicitly stated that man can be righteous apart from the Fall. He lied about original sin.
You stop making statements that you don't document or back up. I and I'm sure any other honest Christian will gladly admit your allegation as true if you can demonstrate it to be true. documentation!
I have posted other comments with documentation which were obviously rejected by LaneCh and thus not on here. Finney beleived in Justification By Faith "Answers To Prayer" pg 24. Finney beleived in the atonement. Sorry I don't have the proof. I read this in one of his own sermons. Although he did deny origional sin, he strongly beleived that all have sinned, thus he always taught repentence as turning from sin to God. See his autobiograghy as well as Answers to Prayer, Revivals of religion.
Folks, that's all it takes---read Finney and the Bible will begin to make sense to you once you get rid of all the crap this guy (with the lame video) is trying to sell you: old mistakes Finney disproved long ago. How someone can slander Finney without ever having read the WHOLE Systematic Theology is BIZARRE!
Mark, I want to thank you in the LORD for everything you have posted on YouTube. LaneCh is a great hub for solid Biblical teaching, and I can't say how important that is. The Lord bless you brother!
Can you provide what's false about it? (Keep in mind I'm not asking for your subjective opinions regarding Finney. Those are irrelevant when someone claims "this is a false message." Professing atheists do the same thing when they comment on videos I post about the Bible. I'm asking for something objective and substantial.
Sorry, you all want not to study the real thing in Finney's preaching. If you do you will come up with real facts why those 'wird things, as we call it' came to pass. You all look to 'the things' but can't place them, so you will never come to some Godly revelation about it! I explained before why Benny Hinn's wird things are comming tp pass. I proved his 'doing' as devilish on my channel 'discernment'. So I did with Todd Bentley before he came up in Lakeland... But if you don't want to search..
Love the 'not so subtle' darth maul and discordant violin music going on in the back of the Finney clips. Did you put that in or is that a part of the actual production? I also notice how you photoshopped the eyes of Finney in each picture of him giving him a crazed look. Very deceptive yet effective. By the way, there's a lot of talk of men in all this and many of the posts but ... where's Christ?
well i disagree of what you are saying. i love the way mark kielar teach. at least he's teaching the truth about gods word, cause we all know that regarless of our own opinion gods word and the truth in it still gone stand. i rather listen to the truth than a lie. we got enough false prophet's in the world as it is.
phillyloki 1 month ago
What is this? The pope of Rome digging up the bones of John Wycliffe after the man of God went home to be with the Lord? We would not have had an abolitionist movement without Finney. Have any of you read Donald Dayton's book the Discovering an Evangelical Heritage? Winkie Pratneys book on Revival? Both of these authors give high marks to Finney's consecration to God. Just because you have a preference for ministry does not nullify another man's work. Like others Finney dealt issues of his day.
fothgt 3 months ago
You people are a disgrace! Have you ever read anything that Finney taught? You and your MAN-MADE "tulip" doctrines. You twist God into a being worse than Hitler and then call that Love and say that everyone else is teaching false doctrine. You are so arrogant and sure that you have it all figured out that you are willing to abandon logic in the name of your interpretation of the Bible. This video is a complete sham!
wupeide 4 months ago
What is wrong with you people!!!! Such distortion and twisting of other people's words!!! And you claim to be christian. What a joke! (The first line of the recording being played is so blatantly over-interpreting!) You are forcing your opinion, which doesn't in anyway resemble the bible, on to other people. Jesus Preaching wasn't dry or passionless... was it?
wupeide 4 months ago
Finney was clearly demonized just look at his eyes if you can see. He taught salvation by good works, deeds, being good & doing the right thing in an effort to distract people from the truth that a person can never DO ENOUGH to get into heaven. We must accept Jesus and he gives us HIS righteousness and forgives our sins. This is what the Bible teaches but Finney appeals to mans pride by teaching that you can live a good life on your own and that you don't need the righteousness of Christ.
stuword323 5 months ago
I've read Finney's journal. The guy speaking about Finney obviously didn't read the journals. He was pretty tough and definitely NOT a Joel Osteen type. The audio guy being quoted with the "background on Finney" seems like a liar to me. Finney could be harsh, Biblical, and legalistic, but he also had heavy-duty guilt-tripping. He definitely knew about the work of grace. It's best to be honest when we challenge Christians. Picking and choosing scattered comments makes you look dishonest.
scifiwritir1 6 months ago
Christians will continue to be confused and easily led astray until they wake up and realize that Paul was the full embodiment of anti-Christ predicted by both Jesus and Peter. Christ is the answer, not Paul's self-admitted hypocritical 'righteousness'.
MrRoycelong 7 months ago
I don't go to your churches because they are FILLED with the unregenerate!
Pfsif 8 months ago
god requires faith and works? but do we muster those up ourselves? both are are gifts. we can do no work pleasing to god nor can we have true faith unless we have been changed by god. born again.
gwayne11000 9 months ago
I had to do an altar call about a year ago. Didn't much care for it.
theveryelect24 9 months ago
So Finney was an apostate because he did not agree with your heresies.
Jesus said the path is narrow and many will not find it.
Do you understand that 100% of your doctrines are solely based on Paul's epistles? You totally reject every word spoken by Jesus about the law, even making doctrines to make Jesus word redundant, you call this dispensational theology. Jesus says to repent, He speaks may parables concerning works and salvation, but you want cheap grace, is the God of Sinai Dead?
Darth3456 9 months ago
Ok honestly what glory is this bringing to God. All we have is people fighting against other people. First of all the video lied because if you look at history Finney had an 85% success rate with conversion. The reason revival happened everywhere he went was before a revival he would always have all of the leaders pray for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. I just want to say whoever posted this video lacks love and intimacy and therefore I must question their salvation. I will pray for you.
garywilliams478 10 months ago
@garywilliams478 how could a human ever know what the success rate was? impossible.
gwayne11000 9 months ago
Charles Grandison Finney led millions, indirectly and directly to the Cross. Doesnt sound like a flop to me. Matbe more study should be taken..............Love Ya..............Rev. Charles Finney
albenia1935 11 months ago
It's very sad that Asahel Nettleton, a Calvinist evangelist who was a contemporary of Finney, is virtually ignored by the church, as he brought true conversions through the Spirt, and not through hyped-up altar calls.
Outrider74 11 months ago
What garbage.
nevillegsolomon 11 months ago
What ignorant butchery. I have read Finney's autobiography
And Finney's Systematic Theology. He called the Pastors to pray for as long as it took for God to move. People were getting saved before they even heard Him from the presence of God with him. What hear say and falseness is being spewed here. I am not sure how attacking a dead man is preaching Christ. Already Finney is ahead of this video author.
gdcgray1 11 months ago
I love the words "clearly taught." I see it time and again that the only Christians that truly understand the Bible are the reformed thinkers. The thing is, you can't understand God's Word unless you are one of the elect. God is not regenerating anyone that He doesn't choose, so you CAN'T understand Bible Truth. You are lost and will forever be lost. God hates you and doesn't want you to be able to understand. Guys like Comfort, White, Piper, Driscoll are the elected ones to give you Truth
razputin34 1 year ago
@razputin34 The Bible is God's Word and the Truth is there to be mined. If you want to know Christ, simply come to Him. God presents to us a way and we have a choice. Any person can come to Him and ask for forgiveness. You can choose this life or turn to Him and let Him lead your life. It is really that simple. Either this world is your master or Christ is. God has revealed Himself to us. You must recognize that is His way and not your way. Relationships are about commitment and trust.
razputin34 1 year ago
@razputin34 You're wrong about that God loves them He hates their sin that's why He sent Jesus just so He could be close to them and eliminate their sin that He hates. The whole Bible is about God trying to get close to man and man rejecting Him. Do you know God? God did not speak through you just now.
kindahokey 11 months ago
@kindahokey I am not sure you understood what I was saying. My point was that if Calvinism is correct, then God doesn't love people that He forces to go to hell. I am not a Calvinist. That statement was aimed at them. I don't understand their views on God at all. Listen to Mr. Kielar. This man says things that sound borderline ridiculous. I am one that believes that God loves us and sent His son to die for us. I have some differing views on the nature of the Atonement.
razputin34 11 months ago
The Apostle Paul and the entire first century church never heard of trinitarianism. It's a catholic doctrine. Lord please help everyone to understand that you have always been a binitarian. The Father and the Son. The two are one. There is none other. Thank you that we believers are all filled with your spirit. Thank you that it is forever. We love you.
gusanotaylor 1 year ago
Carlton Pearson's gospel of inclusion certainly indicates God's sovereignty and grace given to all men.
k0smon 1 year ago
Lane, i wanted to send you an email concerning Finney (i don't care for the argumentation from either side of this silly debate) but i noticed that i couldn't send you an email unless we were youtube friends
DarknessEats 1 year ago
This man knows not of what he is talking about.
Charles Finney is recorded as being the only evangelist who has let thoundsands to christ with very few people back slidding.
This man from LaneCh is tryin to compare the failures of the church today with Charles F. You can't do that the church of todays evanglism are big failures for sure but it does not have its roots in Charles F. Most church's wouldn't even invite Charles F to preach because they do not like to know about their sin.
lovethecaribbean1 1 year ago
@lovethecaribbean1 The thing is I don't know why a Calvinist is worried about any of these "false" teachers. The elect cannot be snatched away by false doctrine. The elect WILL come to Christ and nothing can thwart that. Why waste an ounce of time discussing "heretics?" They are babbling jibberish to the elect. Finney has no power over the true believers. He can't "fool" the elect. The man who is elect will hear the truth and will be drawn to Christ, not hoodwinked by Finney.
razputin34 1 year ago
Finney died 135 years ago....he doen't influence today. These guys are building up a straw man and then tearing him down with their great wisdom. This Mark Kielar may be a real smart feller but he is one arrogant little punk too! I'm not violent but I'd like to jack this dudes jaw just once.
kingseller1 1 year ago 2
this is ungodly false character assasination. based on LIES and misrepresentations.. but that is comon among people like lane and kiefer. The self contradiction is funy to. If God elects those who are saved, how could finey turn people away because of his failed method hardenign them agaisnt Christ? You pharasidical calvanists need to get your doctrine straight.
TheHellbinder 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
commercial -_- why?
nfsdrt 1 year ago
I can not find P2
meinaim 1 year ago
"YOU ALL NEED TO0 BE BORN AGAIN OF THE WATER AND THE SPIRIT" Jesus.
ronhanish 1 year ago
Exegesis is key I will grant, but that is not what you are giving here. In fact you are pulling pieces of history and ignoring others to speak out against a man and the church I find this frightening to say the least. You have fallen into the category of Pharisee. Though you have some to what end are you using it. To seek the kingdom and Guide, no, but to bash those that are teaching. Remember: "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Just think before you speak.
4theSAKEofONE 1 year ago
He's using John Macarthur to refute Finney?!?!?!? Macarthrur denies the blood!!!!!
dscote2001 1 year ago
@dscote2001 when, where and how?
meinaim 1 year ago
Lane
i respect you a lot, i watch many of your videos
however... after the first three and a half minutes of this video i had to stop listening
they represent Finney as having believed that preaching was supposed to be filled with humor and entertainment
this is simply not his position
I've read his autobiography and his lectures on revival, he actually spoke so strongly against what he called levity that it gave me pause
DarknessEats 1 year ago
@DarknessEats You are correct. the accounts of Finney speaking out against the church of the day were in fact against the method and that there was a total lack of passion for a lost world. To compare Finney to some of what is going on in Mega churches around the U.S. is a great leap and one I would caution against.
4theSAKEofONE 1 year ago
This video is a total mis-representation of Finney all done to protect Calvinism. At the outset of his life, Finney was a bored to death, desperate for Christ, Presbyterian-Congregationalist until Baptisted by Jesus Christ with the Holy Ghost. He then became a modern day, Paul.
OMT: No doctrine has caused more converts to backslide than, Calvinism. Think about as you formulate your excuses.
Ormly 1 year ago
We weren't born depraved and your interpretation of the passage is skewed. Read Romans 1, especially vs 28 (also written by Paul). Tell me, did men believe God at the outset, i.e., before God handed them over to do the depraved thing?
Ormly 1 year ago
This is a good point. My church isn't like this, but there are some churches who say 'no redemption necessary' and such lies. This is why it is important for christians not only to live a christian life, but to guard their own hearts from decite.
fishyfacedgurl16 1 year ago
Just curious, when was all this found out? Leonard Ravenhill always spoke good of him. Thank God for the internet so people are able to expose these wolves worldwide.(Charles Finney, not Ravenhill of course).
blakeash2 1 year ago
@blakeash2 thank god for the internet because you chose to believe these twisted messages? Oh, finey is bad now because this twit whereever he is from gave some absurd lie filled misrepresentation of a man? Finey is evil, but men must know verses from romasn 9 to be "correctly" saved. What a pathetic joke. SHAME on these people!
TheHellbinder 1 year ago
are comments turned off for this video?
roaringwaterbay 1 year ago
I don't understand your beef; you have a calvinist ax to grind, so the elect whoever they, are will be saved regardless of who is spreading the word, Finney or some calvinist who passes your litmus test. do you just find it annoying that not all Christians subscribe to your calvinist dogma?
roaringwaterbay 1 year ago
You guys will attack anyone that isn't a Calvinist.
ChristsArmorBearer 1 year ago
Finney was one of the worst heretics that America ever produced. He was a Pelagian, rejected humanity's natural depravity, and preached works-salvation. He was not a servant of God but a servant of the devil.
jubetuber 2 years ago 15
@jubetuber Interesting comment, you know that Jesus required faith and works. Read Revelation; we will be judged by our deeds, those lacking deeds are written in the book of death.
Darth3456 9 months ago
Why is this lane channel filled so much with videos that attempt to justify Calvinism? Where are the videos justifying Christianity History? Where are the vidoes trying to prove that the Bible is true? ... Why do so many calvinist spend the majority of their time defending calvinism before Christianity itslef? I think lots of people need to spend more time in the bible! Be sure of your own salvation and preach the Word of God, not the word of Calvin! God will sort out the sheep from the goat....
FlamingBladeMinistry 2 years ago
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Timothy 4:16)
If one is to defend Calvinism one must study the Bible. Calvin was a man who studied the scriptures deeply and passionately, it just so happens that his study of God's sovereignty and grace had a label placed upon it. Calvinism, mainly God's sovereignty over all and his grace given to men who are unable to obtain it on their own, is Christianity itself.
mrich21087 1 year ago 10
RE: Jubetuber, Man does not possess a natural depravity. The word "depravity", in the sense you apply to all mankind, is nowhere found in scripture.
Ormly 1 year ago
@Ormly
As it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." Romans 3:10-12
In the beginning, to clear any doubt that all men are wicked, the Spirit directs Paul to clarify with, "not even one." This means that at any point in history no person has ever been righteous. If we aren't born depraved, then this verse isn't true.
mrich21087 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mrich21087
We weren't born depraved and your interpretation of the passage is skewed. Read Romans 1, especially vs 28 (also written by Paul). Tell me, did men believe God at the outset, i.e., before God handed them over to do the depraved thing?
Ormly 1 year ago
@mrich21087 . . . .and you are wrong as well. Calvinism has been a 'bane' to Christianity.
Ormly 1 year ago
@Ormly
Ormly, I will investigate with an open mind any instances of someone that preached this doctrine of Calvinism (only describing it through scripture) that was a 'bane' if you provide me with a link. I will consider your point of view if you provide me with evidence. Just let me know.
mrich21087 1 year ago
There is a song:
It's me (3x), O Lord
Standing in the need of prayer
Not my brother, not my sister but it's me O Lord
Standing in the need of prayer
pulangsurot 2 years ago
I just want to ask one question.
If I don't know how to get to heaven, can this video teach me to or lead me to confusion.
Please don't soak in being a great theologians, the last time I checked my Bible, I don't see aby reward in heaven for this.
What we need is soulwinners. I don't care what you know about the Bible, what I care, if you can lead me to heaven through the Bible. Get over it!
pulangsurot 2 years ago
Would you say the same thing of Christ, Paul, Peter, Timothy, etc. who all called for the silencing of incorrect doctrine? Finney's theology is widely accepted, yet if one accepts his beliefs they deny the Gospel. It's sad how some people limit Christianity to soul winning and nothing else... I believe YOU are the one in need of reading your Bible, dear brother.
AnkomaP 2 years ago 2
I'm on your side that Finney's theo is wrong.
But do you suppose that someone who believes Finneys "Theology" will believe on this vid? I think not.
pulangsurot 1 year ago
A FALSE EXPOSURE OF CASES IN THIS VIDEO
kcenhguor 2 years ago
At it's base, Finney's idea of a God that desperately wants to save all, is non-Biblical. Oh yes, it is popular, but then so were the messages of the false prophets at the time of Jeremiah.
Is it any wonder, though, that the undiscriminating forgiveness and unthinking acceptance of Finney's 'God' should reveal its shallowness once the music has died down and the sermons fade in the memory?
curvalecce 2 years ago
Gulp ? What of the passage which says that God wishes that ALL men come to repentance ? mmmm?
aerycksmusic 2 years ago
I think a glance at the context will show 1 Timothy 2:4 is referring to all KINDS of men, even including the kings, etc. who were lreaady persecuting the followers of Jesus. Only God knows the identity of the Elect, written on the Book of Life. Therefore we should always pray for our leaders, for who knows what God has in store?
curvalecce 2 years ago
For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.(Romans 9:15-16)
mrich21087 1 year ago
it said that finney shouldnt of preached so quickly after his conversion... Paul preached 5 days after his conversion
christsaves1212 2 years ago
But didn't Jesus also physically blind Paul and talk to him directly? Paul also had most of the Old Testament memorized, as he was a Jewish scholar. Paul had a vast knowledge of the scriptures. Finney, however, did not. I think that was the point the video was trying to make. Would you say that is an accurate statement?
mrich21087 1 year ago
sure. but Finney was mightily used of God when he began ministry. So I would say he was doing the right thing
christsaves1212 1 year ago
Joel Osteen has reached more people in his life than Jesus did when he was on earth. Would you say he is doing the right thing? Noah was a preacher for a over a century and he didn't convert anyone. Would you say he did the right thing? If you say that great numbers is the mark of Gods anointing, that, my friend, is pragmatism. This would mean that Jesus and Noah were both terrible failures.
mrich21087 1 year ago
I dont see God moving in revival through Joel Osteen. and if you think that by Joel having people pray a prayer is "reaching" them, that my friend, is blasphemy.
christsaves1212 1 year ago
I totally agree, that is exactly my point. Finney had large numbers (just like Osteen) but no real Spirit filled, lasting fruit. Osteen's ministry is blasphemous. The number of people coming to hear you or making confessions of faith in your presence has nothing to do with God. Lasting fruit is the true test. Example: Osteen has more people listening to him than John Piper. Which person's ministry will have lasting fruit?
mrich21087 1 year ago
There is so much distortion and misrepresentation in this video that I cannot believe there is any integrity in the intent of it.
benhuey 2 years ago
What do you say to this video?
watch?v=hFaVtRoc2Kk
APSOC38 2 years ago
go see.
benhuey 2 years ago
I watched it before I referenced it to you. What are your thoughts on what TurretinFan said?
APSOC38 2 years ago
TurretinFan seems to be attempting to sort out a controversy between two others. What he did say about Finney is for the most part accurate, as far as quoting what Finney said. I think understanding what he said is taken out of the greater context of what he was teaching and it is taken out of the context of his message and theology as a whole.
I've read everything I could get my hands on by Finney and the above video is mistaken distortion at best.
benhuey 2 years ago
Western New York is still a burned over area. This is not at all surprising that there has never been another genuine revival since Finney crusaded around the area. I know this firsthand because I spent two-thirds of my life there.
APSOC38 2 years ago
How does Pastor Mark think he can get away with continual lying?
johnmcglone4 2 years ago
How could he be lying if Finney is being quoted verbatim and in context?
APSOC38 2 years ago
not verbatim or in context. See:
refutingCalvinism's account for details...
johnmcglone4 2 years ago
As redundant as "birds of a feather flock together sounds", there is so much truth in that, and you and Kerrigan prove this with each passing day.
APSOC38 2 years ago
John, answer me this. Have you ever been through western New York? Tell the truth.
APSOC38 2 years ago
Why should I tell you anything? Have you ever heard of the word please?
johnmcglone4 2 years ago
I guess since I have to answer to your condescension (and your reply to my question WAS condescending), I'll ask again. John, will you please tell me if you've ever been through Western New York?
APSOC38 2 years ago
yes, twice.
johnmcglone4 2 years ago
Since you've been through western New York State twice, have you noticed how incredibly spiritually dead that part of the country is?
APSOC38 2 years ago
that's just the thing... these quotes are not in context. I've read dozens of Finney sermons, and his systematic theology. This is not an accurate accounting of his message or ministry, or even close.
benhuey 2 years ago
I don't know. My impression is he doesn't lie, at least in his videos. Getting back top your question, though - how do you manage your continual lying? Was it built up in stages or born fully-formed? Enquiring minds need answers(!)
curvalecce 2 years ago
I'm not sure what "jingling30" meant. My ego or Finney's? I've read Finney's autobiography, several sermons, a biography by Lewis Drummond, and 3/4 of his "Lectures on Revival". No, I haven't read his Systematic Theology yet.. However, I think I have read enough by and about Finney to have a fairly good idea as to what he taught. And, yes, his ego often rears its head in his writings.While I admire his energy and his forceful, convicting preaching, much of his theology is in error.
digitalclock 2 years ago
Yes, there is a danger of antinomianism resulting from a misguided understanding of Calvinism just as there is a danger of legalism in a misguided understanding of Arminianism. What the Christian needs to do is to see which teaching is most in line with Scripture. Personally, reading through the Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians leads me to believe that Calvinism is the correct interpretation.
digitalclock 2 years ago
I'm not sure what happened to my first post, but the narrative to which I refer is Charles Finney's autobiography, which I read some years ago, After all, I had read some remarkable sermons in pamphlets put out by Last Days Ministries and wanted to learn more about this evangelist. Certain elements in the biography were disturbing, however. Yes, Finney had a lawyer's mind and could present his arguments effectively. However, he should have used scripture to back up his arguments,
digitalclock 2 years ago
(continued) ...but I couldn't help but detect a streak of arrogance throughout his narrative. First, his denial of original sin and that man has a sinful nature. Second, that he was ordained in the Presbyterian Church despite the fact that he admitted that he was actually ashamed of the Westminster Confession. Third, the way he stood in front of the Presbyterian divines and declined theological training saying that he didn't want to end up preaching like any of them. Talented? Yes. Humble? Hmm..
digitalclock 2 years ago
Fallacy ad hominum - what is at steak is more important than your ego.
jingling30 2 years ago
Calvinist are the most rediculous groups of people. The modern church is very apostate, but to claim Finney's theology has anything to do this is wrong. This is a bad attempt to ruin Finney because he believed the Bible teaches the free will of man. God created man in His own image-- God has intellect, emotions, and will-- thus, so does man.
redVision2 2 years ago
I go to a renound calvanist church and they are all living Antinomianist. They just live off the curt tails of their pastor. They spout cliches and cannot articulate a single doctrine via scripture
jingling30 2 years ago
PLEASE BLOCK ME! Have fun playing with your blocks!
Faustulus777 2 years ago
Finney denied scripture... period! Theology is the study of religion. There is no faith in theology. By faith through grace we are saved. God hardens harts. It has little to do with false doctrine. Finney's doctrine was so successful because it scratched itching ears, but remember those who have itching ears gather teachers who will provide them with what leases their flesh.
GospleWarior 2 years ago
This is slander and garbage. You misrepresent the man totally. A. Read Systematic Theology for yourselves people and the truth of it will open your eyes to many things, not least of which is why this video was made to put down Finney: because his theology was unanswerable to this person's heroes and made them look foolish because it showed how nonsensical their doctrine was.
Faustulus777 2 years ago
So do you deny original sin and penal substitutionary atonement?
(PS. This is your warning: Stay away from ad hominems. For one they don't help your arguments. Two, the employment of them show how ignorant a person is. Three, you will be blocked if you persist.)
LaneCh 2 years ago
Didn't you just employ an Ad hominem on the above by saying he's ignorant for using Ad hominems?? lol. What is this a fascist policing state?? He didn't say anything unreasonable he just expressed a perfectly legitimate view.
gassfactor 2 years ago
@LaneCh Who are you to judge a devout man like Finney who got the good fruit of results while you in your theological castle look down upon him who is unable to be here to defend himself. You vainly judge your better. What are your Evangelical credentials to post spiritual darkness?
MegaSage007 1 year ago
@Faustulus777 -
Produce concrete evidence to back up your claims! I for one would like to see it. The issue is too important to just make blanket statements without support.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@Faustulus777: All one has to do is read Finney's preface in his "Lectures on Systematic Theology" to see the gross error. Much less the rest of the book.
theocratickingdom30 1 year ago
@Faustulus777 This guy IS a Calvinistic blasphemer but ALL Arminian/lose your salvation are "Arminian works devils'' who believe in salvation by WORKS. ALL'' lose your salvation'' is salvation by works. Only Calvinism worships the devil as much as '' lose your salvation''
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
@Faustulus777 i have read finney's systematic theology: that's how i know he is a heretic. he denies substitutionary atonement.
toobfunnybunny 1 year ago
@toobfunnybunny I have not read Finney, so I am not going to comment directly on that point. Why does it matter if Finney is false teacher? He can't fool any of the elect. Why would Calvin care if Servetus was preaching anti-trinitarian doctrines? They have no power over the elect. No one can snatch those elect from Jesus and those elect WILL be raised up on the last day. This was all predestined correct? Finney is only doing what God wants him to be doing.
razputin34 1 year ago
@Faustulus777
Although I agree this video does not do the man justice at all, I agree that the ad hominems should stay away. That aside, I would like to know why the only way people attack Finney is by getting at his young beliefs and seemingly innocent ideas of old.After conversion, his distaste for Counterfeit Conversion was very Christlike in my eyes. People would shout in the middle of his services because of the convictions they had. From my studies of him, he never "played to the crowd"
ranago123 1 year ago
You will ALL likewise perish
Good tidings to ALL men
ALL the world should be taxed
Should have ALL things in common
ALL should be destroyed
bereansearch 2 years ago
Well, there is a lot of truth to Billy Sunday's guilt. That is a good film. But Finney is not without any guilt in the process, and his evangelism tactics were responsible for the flop that followed the 2nd Great Awakening.
bereansearch 2 years ago
Hahaha, love how it says teaching with stories and in a gripping manner is unbiblical, and that the men who dont have the spirit cant understand whats of the spirit. Have you ever read Jesus' preaching, overflowing with parables and allegories to make it applicable to all men, not the elite few. lol. Neo-calvinism when will they learn..
gassfactor 2 years ago
gassfactor SAID: Have you ever read Jesus' preaching, overflowing with parables and allegories to make it applicable to all men, not the elite few. lol.
The bible says: Mat 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
How2BecomeAChristian 2 years ago
I acknowledge what you're saying but the bible makes it pretty clear that Jesus came as the 'saviour of all men' (1 tim: 4.) The point I was making in reference to the video is that Paul the apostle clearly says that he'll become 'all things to all men' in order to spread the gospel, and if that means engaging with people with philosophy, stories, debates, parables, comedy etc then he'll do it.There is simply inadequate biblical support upon which to construct the Theology of evangelism stated.
gassfactor 2 years ago
Right, all kinds of men... Not just Jews. But not ALL men are going to be saved, so you cannot say He is the savior of all men in a sence of ALL, but in that all races, tribes, and tongues will be saved by Christ, and only by Christ.
I believe the biblical support is not only adequate, but historically displayed and extensively expounded by faithful ministers of church history.
bereansearch 2 years ago
Thankyou for the point, but I was not arguing that the bible proposes Universalism. What I was saying is that Jesus was reaching out to men from all social and religious strata displaying an intent to reach them. He was opposed to those who had already hardened their hearts in religious hypocrisy. Feel free to disagree but I again state the belief that there is no substantial biblical evidence for this monumental doctrine. Although I am intrigued as to what you mean by historically displayed?
gassfactor 2 years ago
I am glad that is not what you meant. But, people are saved by a work in their hearts that is done when disciples preach the Word (or the gospel) and the Holy Spirit convicts them of sin, and shows them the truth of Christ, according to the Word of God. At this time, that person repents and trusts Christ's work for their salvation and they are saved. And God does this all through the bible without comedy, or cool t-shirts, or altar calls. Though those things aren't evil in themselves.
bereansearch 2 years ago
So you don't believe any non-christians, or people who haven't heard the gospel preached are ever convicted of sin?! You have a theoretical layout here but let's be honest about reality. And secondly the soteriological position of the bible is considerably more complex than the one your asserting, I suggest you come to grips with second temple Judaism's belief system first. Calvin was constructing Theological super-structures on the basis of very rare passages which are often contradicted.
gassfactor 2 years ago
Wrong, "God is the savior of all men, especially those that believe" 1 tim 4:10
It is obvious here that there are two types of people being referred to, those that believe and all other men(those who dont believe). God is the savior of both believers and unbelievers. But he is especially the savior of believers in that we are saved by faith, whereas they are saved by fire(1 Cor 3:15).
Ironmaw1776 2 years ago
(1 Cor 15:22)As in adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive. The same word in the greek for all is used for both those that are made alive and those that die. The same all which die because of Adam, and we know that means every single person ever born on the planet, are the same all that will be made alive in Christ. Or are you trying to say only some of all types die because of Adam? I dont think so.
Ironmaw1776 2 years ago
Context. All almost never actually means all. We say all, all the time. No we don't. All is addressed to the audience... The bretheren [v.1] then followed by pronouns of you, we, ye, etc. The all is specifically refering to THOSE THAT FELL ASLEEP IN CHRIST [v. 18, 20] and to we, that is believers.... the brethren. You must follow the pronouns to get the right context.
bereansearch 2 years ago
specially (KJV) = gk. malista 1) especially, chiefly, most of all, above all
neuter plural of the superlative of an apparently primary adverb mala (very)
And you could say, based on its usage in the sentence and the context... SPECIFICALLY those that believe
Those that do not believe are not saved. Otherwise no one goes to Hell and the scripture erred.
bereansearch 2 years ago
first of all, if you are saying all means only some in that passage when it says shall be made alive in Christ, then only some people die in adam. The same word and the same usage apllies to the comparison being made between them. You aregument breaks down in that light as we all know all means all when it applies to who dies because of original sin. The same all that die are the same all that will be made alive.
Ironmaw1776 2 years ago
Comment removed
How2BecomeAChristian 2 years ago
Do you remember Jesus's explanation for WHY He spoke in parables?
so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
"To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
bereansearch 2 years ago
I don't like this video because I do not like Calvinism and it's false teaching called "Eternal Security" . I think it's all bunk and unbiblical. I agree with the man above who assails systematic theology.
saintcorvette00 2 years ago
i think Billy Graham is a free mason.
but i dont have proof.
agentorangetechno 2 years ago
The Hillbilly pastors love Charles Finney. He is their scapegoat for the horrible practices they use.
sixfigures1 2 years ago 2
Systematic Theology is JUNK. It supposes that One person or a few people can discern all the nature of scripture once and for all. then bend everything to it.
All it does is pull verses out of context and force them into a preconceived pattern that looks good on the surface but is FLAWED because it never lets the text speak for itself.
Maybe you should all do a study about Darby and his life. He was a Scottish mason and a complete wolf in sheep's clothing as well.
TheHellbinder 2 years ago
This video begins with a dishonest representation of what Finney says then proceeds to destroy the straw man. Finney spoke against the lust for entertainment. The unction Finney regarded necessary was that which comes from honest inward conviction that drives a person to live what he teaches rather than rattling off empty words with no real concern or conviction.
If you are going to oppose Finney, please do so speaking truthfully about what he says rather than lying and opposing the lie.
danieljdick 2 years ago
The video provides quotes and you provide rhetoric. Prove the inaccuracy you are claiming with facts. At the end of his life, Finney realized that his twisted theology and psychological tactics were problems and regretted it.
This kind of nonsense still infects the church today.
garansbarans 2 years ago
I love it when I see Christians such as Ironclad understanding the what's behind today's evangelical "preaching". What we all need to get is the fact that the Kingdom of God is RELATIONAL! We gotta get out of this legal, quip pro quo, courtroom attitude.
KingdomUploader 2 years ago
"What we all need to get is the fact that the Kingdom of God is RELATIONAL! We gotta get out of this legal, quip pro quo, courtroom attitude."
Is that your "ironclad understanding"? Tsk, tsk, you didn't form a relationship with me before you gave this advice.
LaneCh 2 years ago
Imagine if Peter had not given an altar call at Pentecost. Imagine if he said, after the men cried out "what must we do?" Imagine if he said, "well, you can't respond right now because you may not be sincere. Wait a while to see if you are sincere or not and then we will show you what you must do." Imagine that?
joshmead2005 2 years ago 2
well said
godfatherenniskillen 2 years ago
there was no altar call...he was responding to the cry of the people. you said it yourself.
Peter was responding to an obvious work of the Spirit, he had no time to make an altar call. if the same thing happened in churches today, again, there would be no need for an altar call but just to keep preaching the gospel.
eagles5o7 2 years ago 2
Finney was said to be disgruntled and regretful of his altar call method toward the end of his life. He was sorry for ever proliferating it.
reformedman 2 years ago
Unfortunately, it's still with us. I cringed at a recent youth convention where they pulled a textbook case of exactly what was exposed in this video.
Tragic and disheartening. It's extremely frustrating
garansbarans 2 years ago
I do not know who or what JTTN ministries is. I really do not care. But whoever or whatever it is, it is nothing that can discern truth. Finney, Hybels, and Rick Warren are heretics. Finney's Systematic Theology is pure rubbish. Mark Kielar is a Godly man.
ZoaLogos 3 years ago
Again, I would like to know if LaneCh or this host has read through Finney's Systematic Theology.
Please give an answer.
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
I almost guarantee he hasn't read Finney's Systematic Theology. This video is pure propaganda.
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
JTTNMinistries, have you watched this CrossTV series or heard this sermon completely through? If not, then why are you employing a double standard in stating that someone has to read something in its entirety to comment on portions of it that they have read/heard when you say, "I almost guarantee he hasn't read Finney's Systematic Theology." then, in the very next sentence say, "This video is pure propaganda." (draw a conclusion on this sermon based on a snippet). That's called hypocrisy, sir.
LaneCh 3 years ago
Why did you dodge the question?
I have watched this series that is available here on YouTube and your other Finney videos. That is how I know this video is pure propaganda because it either 1) Is ignorant of Finney's actual theology (which I hope) or 2) Has intentionally and willfully misrepresented Finney.
Now it is your turn. Please answer if you have read his Systematic Theology through or if the narrator has to your knowledge.
By the way Finney NEVER stated that Salvation is a work of man
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
Ah, you see, there's a difference between dodging a question and determining the validity of one. Asking the informal logical fallacy of the loaded question doesn't help your position, either.
(Cont....)
LaneCh 3 years ago
Here's the case. You asked if I had read a complete work of Charles Finney before judging what I had read. You now have answered that you haven't heard this entire sermon before judging that "This video is pure propaganda." So, not that I agree with your inane standard, but why do you employ it when it's clear by your own admission that you don't follow that standard yourself when determining the validity of what someone has said?
(Cont...)
LaneCh 3 years ago
Again, sir, that is called hypocrisy, and the only way of addressing it is by rightly calling it out. So your assertion that I was "dodging the question" is hereby refuted along with your hypocritical standard for making conclusions about the statements people make without reviewing an entire work by them which you, self-admittedly, don't follow yourself. Now's the time to save some face and admit that your standard is inane, and you've demonstrated that you don't follow it yourself.
LaneCh 3 years ago
I'm sorry? I HAVE heard this entire sermon! That's what I said! I HAVE watched all the Finney videos on your site!
I am not in hypocrisy.
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
Um... so just let me get this straight so there is no ambiguity. You heard the entire sermon on this site?
LaneCh 3 years ago
What is there ambiguous about it? I've watched this program, the "Finney said salvation is the work of man" video and "dangers of Charles Finney's Theology" all the others I could find on your LaneCH.
Please eventually answer this question. Have you read Finney's Systematic Theology?
I hope the answer is a resounding NO because if you have it was been horribly misrepresented.
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
I see. Well, that would be kind of hard to listen to the entire sermon on Youtube since it isn't posted on Youtube.
Now, since you don't hold to your standard of doing things, why are you trying to put the same standard on others? Again, sir, that's called hypocrisy. If I can't make conclusions about people's theology based on portions of what I've seen/read, why is it alright for you? Again, I am addressing your question. I'm just proving that it's an inane standard that you don't follow.
LaneCh 3 years ago
Sir you are deliberately lying about a man of God. You are headed for hell fire if you don't repent. Repent of your false religion of Calvinism and live.
Repent of your lies and misrepresentation of both Finney and men like myself who are exposing your lies
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
Why don't you address your hypocrisy (either by affirming it and repenting or proving, although I don't know how you could honestly, that you don't hold a hypocritical double standard). After that, perhaps someone might find your new critique persuasive and reputable. I believe it was you earlier who was addressing the subject of dodging issues... hmmm?
LaneCh 3 years ago
I'm not doing anything hypocritical. I've watched everything possible on this subject I have found plus read on other websites. You are judging falsely and show that YOU are the hypocrite.
You're a false teacher misrepresenting a man of God which is a damnable thing to do.
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
I see. Not only are you a Pharisee by definition (minus the Jewish heritage), but you're an unrepentant one. Very telling. Thank you for demonstrating the strength of the "humbleness and humility" of your religion for all to see here. Have a great life.
LaneCh 3 years ago
it is always fun to watch people who know nothing about theology debate theology. ahh, the double edged nature of the 'freedom of speech'....
replikantzero 3 years ago
LaneCh, you said: Keep in mind I'm not asking for your subjective opinions regarding Finney. Those are irrelevant..."
Uhhh... Perhaps you'd like to properly source this material??? I mean, apparently someone did actually bother to speak this message, but there was no attempt to do what you are asking of others, namely, to document it, and with context. So, until you do that, you are a hypocrite.
brntoki 3 years ago
Um... go to a comment I made on this very video about 11 months ago. There I provide two links to even more source material from Finney and two pastors who comment on that actual source material. I've also provided primary quotes with citations on other videos about him before. Perhaps in the future it would help to do a little more research before you make generalizations about people.
LaneCh 3 years ago
sad but true-this is a perfect hitjob.I can't understand how this person got from "Finney was bored with the preaching in his town" to "because of this Finney's viewed preaching should be entertaining" This is rubbish, purely suggestive and subtle trickery.
God works in many ways (stress work).He spoke everything into existence but created man with his hand.He showed his power in Egypt, but he did nothing similar in bring the exiles from Babylon
juine23 3 years ago
How many modern day evangelists spend weeks in prayer before going to a town to preach. Also, as Ravenhill recalls and to paraphrase, "Finney never made an alter call in the first 3 weeks of any crusade. He would preach, preach, preach until peoples consicences came alive, until they had nightmares, and they'd stop him in the streets and cry out is there any mercy?"
Ravenhill also recalls that Finney had a larger number of true converts then most other (yes even reformed) revivalists.
fleebabylon 3 years ago
This video is absurd and is boredline a lie straight from hell itself! To tie modern day evengelism to Finney is absurd. It is blatant to see that this person has a hidden religous agenda to promote. There is enough legitimate concern over Finneys systematic theology that we need not produce GARBAGE and outright lies like this. What religion devoid of the Holy Spirit I see here. So disappointed that you would stoop this low Lane.
-Jim
fleebabylon 3 years ago
Thanks for your unsubstantiated rant. :)
LaneCh 3 years ago
Excellent videos, LaneCh. Keep up the great work.
winecheesery 3 years ago
Not to justify or defend Finney, but... The more people you can "call to Christ" the better. The "Predestined" will come forward and the others were lost anyway. In order to call out the predestined doesn't someone have to introduce them to Jesus? I must still be missing something about Calvinism...
randy95023 3 years ago
I agree with you about calling people to Christ. BUT we have to call them by the means of PREACHING THE WORD OF GOD. THAT is the call. It is not: "Are you a sinner?... So pray this prayer." The thing about this false-calling is that it trys a different way of calling people to Christ, a man's way to call them to Christ, and that leads to distruction. To expose sin, and the sinful nature of man, and tell them about the gospel. Paul Washer does it very well. Modern preacher DON'T expose sin.
dudastabel 3 years ago
randy, it doesn't sound like you're missing anything from your post. We must preach the word to as many people as possible!
SeinUndZeit 3 years ago
I've been reading "Revivals Of Religion" by Finney, and contrary to what you Calvinist say, he DOES state that man will never obey God apart from the influence of God's spirit. Now stop slandering a man of God who is not even alive to defend himself!
Joshpb80 3 years ago
Can you provide the primary source material for this, and we can read what he's written in context? Finney has explicitly stated that man can be righteous apart from the Fall. He lied about original sin.
LaneCh 3 years ago
You stop making statements that you don't document or back up. I and I'm sure any other honest Christian will gladly admit your allegation as true if you can demonstrate it to be true. documentation!
SeinUndZeit 3 years ago
I have posted other comments with documentation which were obviously rejected by LaneCh and thus not on here. Finney beleived in Justification By Faith "Answers To Prayer" pg 24. Finney beleived in the atonement. Sorry I don't have the proof. I read this in one of his own sermons. Although he did deny origional sin, he strongly beleived that all have sinned, thus he always taught repentence as turning from sin to God. See his autobiograghy as well as Answers to Prayer, Revivals of religion.
Joshpb80 3 years ago
Which comments did you post? There are none on here pending.
LaneCh 3 years ago
Folks, that's all it takes---read Finney and the Bible will begin to make sense to you once you get rid of all the crap this guy (with the lame video) is trying to sell you: old mistakes Finney disproved long ago. How someone can slander Finney without ever having read the WHOLE Systematic Theology is BIZARRE!
Faustulus777 2 years ago
Mark, I want to thank you in the LORD for everything you have posted on YouTube. LaneCh is a great hub for solid Biblical teaching, and I can't say how important that is. The Lord bless you brother!
FishersofMenCanada 3 years ago
This is a absolutely false message... read his own biography
kcenhguor 3 years ago
Can you provide what's false about it? (Keep in mind I'm not asking for your subjective opinions regarding Finney. Those are irrelevant when someone claims "this is a false message." Professing atheists do the same thing when they comment on videos I post about the Bible. I'm asking for something objective and substantial.
LaneCh 3 years ago
kcenhguor, if you can't document anything then doesn't that prove your assertion false?
SeinUndZeit 3 years ago
Sorry, you all want not to study the real thing in Finney's preaching. If you do you will come up with real facts why those 'wird things, as we call it' came to pass. You all look to 'the things' but can't place them, so you will never come to some Godly revelation about it! I explained before why Benny Hinn's wird things are comming tp pass. I proved his 'doing' as devilish on my channel 'discernment'. So I did with Todd Bentley before he came up in Lakeland... But if you don't want to search..
kcenhguor 3 years ago
Love the 'not so subtle' darth maul and discordant violin music going on in the back of the Finney clips. Did you put that in or is that a part of the actual production? I also notice how you photoshopped the eyes of Finney in each picture of him giving him a crazed look. Very deceptive yet effective. By the way, there's a lot of talk of men in all this and many of the posts but ... where's Christ?
icartoon2