Bob Jones University - Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Abuse

[trueedge2097]

I really hesitate to respond to this video. I'm not a BJU grad or even a BJU supporter per se. I do however understand extensively the history of fundamentalism in America. I will just say this. The statements made in this video are correct, to some degree. What's not right, though, is the manner in which it is painted. The vid makes it seem like BJU did these things just because ("us v. them). But that's really not the case at all. They had good reason to separate from Billy Graham and others.

[StockportWesleyanC]

What did you mean by "unhealthy striving for purity and holiness?"

[SC1337]

that's place scares me beyond belief I'll never forgive my father for making me go there.

[pinknoted]

I knew right away that my sister was in trouble when she decided to attend this university. It scares the living daylights out of me how much this school has changed her for the worse.

[parksharp]

Wow, that was a lot of accusations. I failed to notice any proof of wrong doing by anyone in BJU. Are they a cult? In what sense? Its not Jim Jones University, no one has been accused of teaching anything that they dont have a legal right to believe. They are a cult in the strict definition but so is any other religion. They dont keep people there against their will. They dont force people to become students. I know that they have strict rules of morality. I dont see your case.

[WhatUGawkinAt]

@parksharp Actaully man, there is SOME degree of credibility. I went to a fundamental christian school for 11 years. The parents of these kids (if they had the same mindset as the teachers) would not allow their kids to attend any other college other than 1-2 others that the school has to completely agree with. For alot of kids it's not their say in what they do and where they go after high school. The faculty at some schools have such tight hold of their morals it's almost cult-like.

[HumbleServantToHim]

I'm a proud IFB teenager and I plan on going to Bob Jones University. This is not a cult, we're not forced to do this. I decided on my own to join the IFB church, my parents are agnostic so I was in now way, shape, or form, pressured into this. It's a good church

[tron81]

@HumbleServantToHim I'd suggest you rethink going to Bob Jones. It may be a good church, but it's not a good school. You'll get a much better education elsewhere, and you can still find a good church to attend. I considered attending BJU because I lived nearby, but I'm glad I attended a good state school instead.

[8646099127]

"IFBabuse" could be taken to court for lying like this ... I wonder if anyone could sue them or if you would have to be from this university? Does anybody know? Of course, I would think the FCC has laws on things like this ... might make some bigtime money.

[bgavtek]

@8646099127 The "IFBabuse" is perfectly within their legal right to produce this video (although there is very little truth in it). the FCC does not have jurisdiction over the internet. No one has jurisdiction over the internet which is why there is so much junk on it.

[idkurmother]

are challenged on something. geez

[idkurmother]

this video was made by someone dis-gruntled. ive been in the bj system for years. i dont agree with much of their 'beliefs'. however the university's core is very solid and VERY biblical. allowing one teachers radical view of something to describe the whole universitys standpoint is obviously wrong. also notice the change in the last several years, the stick to what is needed in a christians life, outside of that they force nothing. pay attention and stop getting so defended when you

[sthoner1]

I attended Bob Jones in the mid 90's. I saw very little truth in this video, and those truths were twisted. What I saw at the university was a group promoting STANDARDS. There is nothing wrong with standards. They took a strict stance on biblical belief. The belief that the Bible is the word of God, not a book left for individual interpretation. If you wish to denounce the Bible, you denounce God. You can't believe one part and not another. It is a whole.

[ras14007]

@tgillspy1 Why were your other comments removed?

[ras14007]

The law demands strength from one that has none, and curses him if he cannot display it. The Gospel gives strength to one that has none, and blesses him in the exhibition of it. The law proposes life as the end of obedience, the Gospel gives life as the only proper ground of obedience.

You have it all backwards. 

[ras14007]

Rom8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." Rom6:13-15 "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?God forbid."

[ras14007]

Hey lizzlefish, you accuse me of legalism but not Str8Talker365??? Is that because he's at least willing to speak negatively of Bob Jones University?

[nathanbp19]

thechosenwhites wordpress com wants your stories about the psychological, spiritual and physical abuse of Bob Jones University! Contribute and spread the word! United we can stand. Divided they win...again and again and again. It's time to make the wrongdoers fear instead of the victims!

[lizzelfish]

Defending Pharisee'ism and competitive holiness is so sadly common. Once you taste true grace and freedom in Christ that all goes away. With that freedom comes love and joy - something I never saw in any of the 3 IFB churches I helped start or the numerous ones I've worked in on staff & as a layman. Legalism creates a sick false twisted caricature of the Lord.  I've been where you are - and I am glad I am where I am now.

[michaelbethhk09]

Amen to that brother, I am glad you see this as well...many do not, but there is a remnant...praise God!

[Str8Talker365]

@ras14007

Bob Jones University is not "separate" from the world. It practices Roman Catholic sun worship like the majority of Christendom by embracing the heretical trinity dogma of Constantine's NIcean Council, practicing the keeping of occult "holidays", and keeping sun god day as the Sabbath, thereby breaking the fourth commandment and teaching others to do so. The BJU art gallery is full of pagan art and sculptures.

Bob Jones University is a psuedo Christian cult school.

[ras14007]

@Str8Talker365 Like I told lizzlefish earlier, I'll take your word for it as far as Bob Jones University. I don't know them and I'm not defending them. By the way, read Hebrews 4. Jesus is our Sabbath, not a particular day of the week.

[Str8Talker365]

@ras14007

How is "Jesus our Sabbath"?!

The fourth command of GOD is very specific ... REMEMBER TO KEEP THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH HOLY. It is a DAY, not a person.

GOD hallowed (sanctified) the seventh day at creation. He wrote this command in stone. It is right in there with "do no murder", etc. It will be kept by the WHOLE WORLD in the future kingdom under the rule of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is NOT OUR SABBATH! The seventh DAY is GOD'S very specific command that most are ignoring.

[ras14007]

@Str8Talker365 Col. 2:16&17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Hebrews 4:10 (Read the whole chapter of Hebrews 4) says "For he that is entered into his rest (the rest we have in Christ through faith alone), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his." Everything points to faith in Christ, including the sabbath.

[Str8Talker365]

@ras14007

Paul teaches that only the body of Christ has any say in God's ways, His instructions for how to live.

While the world keeps occult days and times based on sun worship, God's ways stand out ... keeping the seventh day Sabbath instead of sun god day, keeping God's appointed times instead of the world's occult holidays, etc.

"There remains a "sabbatizmos" (sabbath keeping) for the people of God". Heb 4:9 This same Greek word is used in the LXX for a LITERAL Sabbath day.

[ras14007]

@Str8Talker365 Paul was so wary of those that tried to re-impose God's covenant with Israel that he questioned the very salvation of those who did so. "...how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain...I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you." Gal.4:9-11, 20.

[ras14007]

You can't go wrong just reading the Bible. I think maybe you're supplementing the Scriptures with some outside literature? The Bible is so clear about this topic, it's hard for me to understand how you are reasonably coming to this conclusion unless you are basing doctrine on outside sources. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us." Gal.3:13

[Str8Talker365]

@ras14007

God's commands and holy days are not "outside literature".

Jesus Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the law, which is the second death / lake of fire.

If the law has been "done away" as antinomians claim, then murder is okay now, stealing? not a problem, adultery? go right ahead.

However, all of those things are "sin" because of God's law that defines sin, I John 3:4.

Faith without works is dead, James 2.

[michaelbethhk09]

"Christian Rock" music is what I criticize a far cry from Luther's Mighty Fortress....yes I am born again and teach in my church and am quite doctrinally informed thanks....

[ras14007]

@michaelbethhk09 I understand what you're saying. I think there's a point where CCM can draw people who don't know God or are backslidden to heartfelt study of the Bible, but it strikes me as pretty empty otherwise. Lyrics never seem to touch on God's coming judgement, and many of the songs are so vague and doctrinally unsound it seems like it would just lead many to a generic, unsaved understanding of Christ. (The whole Rob Bell, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, "The Shack" type of God.)

[ras14007]

Also, lizzelfish, I'm sure there ARE IFB's that function similarly to how you outline them in this video, but I think you're doing a disservice by claiming all IFB's hold to these standards. I'm also confused by your comment suggesting that I'm using denial as a coping strategy. (Maybe you figured I was defending the University?) God bless!

[michaelbethhk09]

The fact is I am hardly religious but have seen the back wash on the so called CCM movemnent and it is killing American Christianity which has become "cultural Christianity" rather than Biblical Christianity...I listen to good music, but I do not "Jesusfy" it like the weaklings do.....like ur interests keep them out of the church, music is entertainment, rock that is, not Worship.....

[lizzelfish]

@michaelbethhk09 I'm confused Do you decry all contemporary Christian music? Around 1517 Martin Luther wrote a contemporary song called, A Mighty Fortress Is Our God. Around 1748 John Newton, an immature new (a weakling?) christian penned Amazing Grace In 1918 Haldor Lillenas wrote a contemporary hymn called "Wonderful Grace of Jesus." So, if you were alive then, would you criticize them? Just curious - are you a Christian, though "hardly religious"? & what do you think is "good music"?

[michaelbethhk09]

No debate here on "music" catholicism is also a bastard religion, as far as the music called "worship", this is only an American, or white man phenomenom, in the white culture, entertinment has become the theology not the Word of God, "lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God". Everyone I meet that imbibes the so called "Christian" music, is hardly what I would call a mature Saint in the faith, shaloow, worldy. Take the rattle away from the baby, it cries!

[lizzelfish]

@michaelbethhk09 No one is crying here. I spent 2 wks in Guatemala w/ a medical missions team giving the gospel & attended contemporary church worship services. Wife & son went to Togo for 2 wks evangelism - different worship music there, too. Don't shape this into a racist "white man's phenomena" Contemporary Christian music varies in it's depth of message as do the "old hyms" Tarring those worshiping differently than you comes across as arrogant & judgmental. Beware the Religious Spirit

[lizzelfish]

I attended BJU, wasted 3 years of my educational dollars towards a non accredited degree & everything this states is true. I personally read it there, heard it in a classroom, or chapel. As modern day Pharisees, they've invented, perpetuated and continue to virulently protect an extra Biblical behavioral set of rules & regulations but do nothing to lift the burden they place on student's shoulders. "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." Proverbs 14:12

[patty7beth]

"Haters for Christ." Political pull gets BJ grads jobs in fed & state legislatures, right-wing law & accounting firms, schools, etc..

Their "faith" is so contemptuous of other Christians, it limits jobs, but they don't want jobs that "compromise with apostates." (sane people)

Their hatred for Billy Graham, Charles & Andy Stanley and all post 1945 worship music clues you to their nutjob status quickly. Really, BJU? Graham's done "more to damage the cause of Christ" than anyone? Pharisees.

[ras14007]

This is a poorly researched presentation.

[lizzelfish]

@ras14007 Really? I went to BJU three (3) years. Everything I saw was true - and I saw/heard it all firsthand. Did you go to BJU?

[lizzelfish]

@ras14007 Nope..Right on target. The reality of You Tube is size limitations. If they were to give quotes of each issue withe supporting documentation it would not upload. I went there three years. Denial is not a coping strategy.

[ras14007]

@lizzelfish I'm not debating whatever Bob Jones University is doing, I'll take your word for it. When I said it's poorly researched I should've been more specific. You mention FBFI as the "official" fellowship network for IFB's, and then go into detail as to what IFB's believe. Independent Fundementalist Baptist's sole authority is the Bible, so I don't care how "official" they convinced you they are, they don't represent many IFB congregations, including the one I attend.

[HellVomit09]

*hides*



[Bagkaa]

I'm glad you broke away from this group.

[johnny102marvin]

Organized religion is just a bunch of people getting together to create their own CLUB. Roman emperor Constatine created the Catholic Club. Alexander Cambell created the Church Of Christ Club. Joseph Smith created the Mormon club. Wesley created the Methodist Club. Henry VIII created the Episcopal club. Bob Jones created his own Club. Jesus preached against organized religion - Pharisees and Saducees. They all want to control your life, money, and energy.

[ChavoMysterio]

It's more like JIM JONES UNIVERSITY.

[heidiadurham]

BJU is just list any other university that has rules. Before you attend you sign and agree to abide by them. If you go there and sign your name agreeing to their rules, and later complain and bash them then you are the idiot. I graduated from their in 08 and 10...while I don't agree with all the rules they have, I received an outstanding education and I can understand the need for order. It's not as bad as everyone says. “Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.” -Alexander Hamilton

[robertmike57]

@heidiadurham You did not receive an outstanding education at BJU. It's rules don't give order, but repression

[Kyouryuu5000]

Yeah, those IFB ministers are a bunch of jerkwads portraying themselves as "men of integrity."

[Yahwehsninja]

I went to BJU and I can state, with 1st hand information, that everything in this video is absolutely true.

[michaelbethhk09]

I agree that rock music in the church is a worldly thing, I do not agree that BJU should underpay the workers, but that is typical of BJU mentalities, I worked as a bus driver at a BJU led church in Colorado, they did pay me a little to drive, but the janitor and others that worked hard to do their jobs got a pittance or nothing, while the preacher lived in upper middle class home. Like a pyramid scheme, the leader gets the people under him that cannot make ends meet.

[lizzelfish]

@michaelbethhk09 Still having the music debate? Really? If you want to feel religious, go to a Catholic church. IFB music looks VERY worldly in comparison.

[michaelbethhk09]

BJU does have it's problems, I do not back this U, however, BG has endorsed the RCC for years, which is a cult and against the Word of God. Rick Warren is a worldly pop culture guru that does not stand solid on doctrine but employs "wallet driven purposes to promote his economy and his agendas. A Shepard of the flocks have little time to be globetrotting writing books etc, but Warren has taken this to new heights, makes millions of dollars and has a cult following. Rick is not to be endorsed.

[scooby1drful]

Would you rather attend the LSU? Leonard Skynyrd University? And yes Billy graham did irreparable damage to credibility of the gospel by way of his "wider mercy" remarks on Robert Schuller's Hour of Power and other similar interviews. Some trust in horses and some in chariots , but we will remember the name of the Lord. Love the botherhood- honour the King

[bradysmale]

This video is ridiculous. I could go on forever stating falsities in it but I am an Independent, Fundamental, Baptist and we do not even agree with BJU because they are not what they once were. We are IFB's but we have no tie to any other IFB church. We are Independent. People who go to an IFB college go there to be in the ministry, not to teach public schools. People come and go as they please. Women are subject to their husband, not men. Ephesians 5:22. We follow what the Bible says. KJV

[lizzelfish]

@bradysmale I challenge you to find any falsities in it. I went there three years. When did you go?

[mrdmabernathy]

Wow--there is certainly a lot of misinformation, assumption, and half-truths here. Not to be trusted.

[thelamb777]

Standards work period...I'm a subscriber to KJV onlyism for a good reasons...

[Christinewith4]

Ok, so i go to a IFB Church... this is NOTHING like our church. There are NO dress codes- heck I NEVER wear a dress- pants only for me. We have a ROCK BAND in our Sunday school class, not to mention various forms of music ON the pulpit platform.

We have well over 700 people in sunday morning service alone...I can not name even 1 family who homeschools at our church. there are definitely no "ifb schools" around here either. Every one I know utilitizes public school. etc etc

[Kyouryuu5000]

@Christinewith4

Perhaps you are referring to an organization called the Baptist Bible Fellowship International (BBFI).

[Christinewith4]

@Kyouryuu5000 ..

UM. NO. I think I KNOW what type of church I go to. We are IFB. and like others have posted, IFB stands for INDEPENDANT- meaning they are not connected to ANY other IFB church or any other church AT ALL. They are ALL DIFFERENT. These people need to stop trying to make a whole denomination look bad. Do a search on ANY denomination or other religion for that matter- you find a multitude of similar videos for each.

[Kyouryuu5000]

@Christinewith4

Thanks for explaining.

[go4thecrown]

BJU is NOT IFB. Bob Jones SR. was Methodist. There are people from all Protestant faiths there.

[savebygrace78]

MAKE MORE PLEASE!!!! I NEED TO MAKE ONE ABOUT PCC!!! I WENT THERE AND STILL HAVE FLASHBACKS!!!! LOL......GO REFORMED and LOOK TO THE CROSS AND NOT MEN AND STANDARDS!!!!  Grace will WIN the day!

[Kyouryuu5000]

@savebygrace78

Here is some information about the Independent Fundamental Baptist:

Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches worship dress codes, church membership, and tithing in that order.

Excerpt from biblelife (dot) org (slash) doctrines (dot) htm.

[pastorblward]

@Kyouryuu5000 I am the Pastor of an Indpendent Fundamental Baptist church and this video doesn't represent our beliefs and practices. Your comment is a mer generalization as we are all INDEPENDENT with no convention, association or board to rule or control us. Each church in our denomination is different. At my church, Yes we practice biblical separation, both on a personal level and as a church.

[pastorblward]

@Kyouryuu5000 HOwever, we worship God, we pray, we witness to others, we give tithes/offerings, we believe in church membership and the principle of modesty as taught in the Bible (we have no dress code aside from being modest and appropriate for the situation) IN THAT ORDER.

[Kyouryuu5000]

@pastorblward

Did you even look at the following link from biblelife (dot) org?

[pastorblward]

@Kyouryuu5000 didn't feel a need to as I am speaking from personal experience and therefore know what our beliefs and practices are for our local Independent Fundamental Baptist Church of which I am pastor. Besides with the excerpt being so blatantly incorrect (if you didn't pull it out of context) there is nothing of benefit for me there. Besides I don't go to the internet or any person to get my convictions and beliefs.I go to the Word of God, the Bible.Everyone is entitled to their thoughts.

[Kyouryuu5000]

@pastorblward

You could also study Hebrew and Greek to get to understand the Bible much better via Strong's Concordance.

[TuLithu]

There is some truth in all the points you bring up, though I feel that some are stated too strongly. My brother is a professor at BJU, I attended there for 1.5 years, and my ex-wife graduated from there. My brother has a Doctorate from Boston University in Voice Performance (music). My ex-wife was able to get her degree from BJU validated by Florida and is a certified teacher in the public school system (we had to jump through hoops to get that done, though. Wasn't easy). to be continued...

[bob62613]

The music in the video is very distracting but I think yo did a good job explaining the things to those on the outside who do not know about this religious group. It is a hard group to explain. This will be a a good video to show my friends when I want them to see why I'm so upset with the way I was raised. You should do a video with more modern pictures of BJU as well. I think that would even be better. But overall good job.