Harper is clearly an AGENDA man .. bolster the economy building prisons.. because they're such a great investment right ? .. but wait.. you need PEOPLE to put in PRISONS.. dont you ?.. Oh ,, where do we get people for new prisons , from .. Hmmmm Oh yeah .. ANYONE who falls under the wheels of the SYSTEM.
Mr. Harper has just struck a free trade agreement with Honduras Now let's try to figure out how that could possibly be good news for Canadians. I guess when a number of Canadian businesses shut down operations here in Canada and move out to Honduras where they can pay workers less than half what they are currently paying in wages here, the business owners can thank Steve. The unemployed Canadians can blame themselves for voting in this fool. And if you complain, he'll say you're a whiner.
Fuck the Liberals. They butchered the west coast of canada for decades and two of the three biggest provincial economies are out here. Liberals and all the supporters advocate open borders, socialism and bias quebec nonsense. Your scum!
Oh yes, I forgot. The cold and calculating Stephen Harper. The one with the "hidden agenda". How did that tripe work for you in the last election? Harper is neither a moron or an evil leader. For Christ sake, are you telling me Harper is an evil dictator? Why don't you go live in Zimbabwe for a while and then comment on how similar Harper and the govt. of Zimbabwe are. Only in a liberal mind.
@lordrazr well why mention Canada and Zimbabwe in the same sentence unless comparing?What's better? Minority governments where nothing gets done but political grandstanding by the opposition? I'd tell you to wise up but it sounds like it's not possible.
@just4tunes holy fuck, are you serious? The commonality is evil leaders, morons running a country, etc. That's it bro, i cannot believe you could take his comment any other way!
Do you know why I referred to religion?? Because religous people take their belief as unchangeable..and then try to justify it in any way they can. You are doing the same in politics. Any rational person (we are speaking about politics now) looks at facts and rationale FIRST and then makes up their minds about beliefs. By being stubborn in thought, you are setting yourself for manipulation by ANY politician..as truth is NOT their priority. Staying in power IS their priority...
LOL..just read your stubbornness of thought...and that says it all. It was entertaining just to sit back and see what you do when I say I'm going elsewhere. ...Anyhow, I AM going to bed. And this is not ending because of disagreement. It is ending because you are NOT taking the time to listen properly and to back your arguments with numbers. Economics IS about numbers..no matter how much you want to bullshit yourself. I NEVER asked you to respond right away. Get your numbers and facts..
Good luck. We have profound disagreements...and i am only moving on to other more worthwhile debate. You are clearly not researching anything in any depth here. Your synopsis of the subprime crisis was so incredibly lame...for someone who claims to have knowledge of economics. Sorry..time to go to bed...
I NEVER said any of the bullshit you're spouting that I said. Quote me on where I said any of that bullshit. I said that tax cuts are plain stupid when you have created a huge deficit...because you are financing them with debt. Quit misquoting me.....and read properly...
I'm giving up real soon... Do we end up with more...if we raise taxes and finance them ith debt..and then paying debt maintenance for endless years to finance them??? We end up with LESS money in the end...and the middle and working class will pay the price...because they carry the tax burden. If you want to keep discussing...you need to start using numbers..or I give up on you...Sorry...
Did I connect the subprime mortgage crisis to tax cuts?? Holy shit... The prime reason for the sub-prime mortgage crisis was the packaging of financial instruments by Goldman Sachs to sell mortgages in a stock form..with a falsely overrated risk rating. Do you understand this? If the mortgages were sold at the proper risk rathing...then the possiblity of default would have been recognized by the market and they would not have been allowed to happen by pure market forces.. LOL..do research..
@paulfornasier So you admit what I said! Corp tax cuts didnt cause the subprime mortgage crisis, and the bush tax cuts did not cause the crash! So u agree with me when I say that it wasnt tax cuts, but overspending on 2 wars and a housing market crash that caused the debt, not lower taxes.
@MyDormantSoul You are fighting like a child...never looking at the big picture and quibbling about stupidity..and just trying to prove endlessly that your'e right in some way. Do you realize the immaturity of that??..and you NEVER procuce any solid financial facts and figures. Keep fooling yourself.... and go satisfy your petty ego elsewhere please....
@paulfornasier stop making personal attacks, and no I am addressing your comments, you are the one whos getting emotional, you r the one whos ignoring my counter arguments, basic fundamentals that poke holes in your alarmism. just look at what you are saying.
@MyDormantSoul You are constantly misquoting me. I never linked tax cuts to the subprime crisis ever. I always link them to using debt to finance them,......and you keep going back to linking them constantly..LOL.. AND you NEVER provide clear facts and numbers about anything. AND you keep spouting partisan crap that I clearly don't give a shit about... Numbers is what makes economics. If you REALLY have studied economics, you would know that....
@paulfornasier No, you are using numbers to talk about interest rates, I am using fundamental arguments, those that r the base of a certain political and economic strategy, that dont necessarily contain numbers in the given context, and using them to talk about the economy as a whole as well as to discuss the subprime mortgage crisis, as well as the moves of the bush era. I am addressing your issues of interest rates with a counter argument that there is more to the economy than that one subject
@MyDormantSoul So, you are basically saying that numbers are irrelevant to economics? YOU are the simplistic one that is solely focussing on tax cuts as some kind of incredible solution to everything. You are the one who acts like your favourite politician is incredibly trustworthy...LOL I am looking at a multifaceted balance of economics..where there is a time for cutbacks...tax cuts..refraining from cuts...looking that debt, interest rates...GDP...debt to GDP ratio... Give me a break..LOL..
@paulfornasier you are misunderstanding what I am saying and you are running away. I am currently writing down all your contradictions on a WORD page. You seem to believe that the numbers that you have given are highly complex and that I ignored them, I am not and many economists on my side of politics are not either, you are not smarter than me, you are not more advanced than the economics of the conservative party, you are not in the right, you are running away now.
@MyDormantSoul LOL..and when did I say that my numbers are "highly complex"?? You seem to be making life more difficult for YOURSELF by thinking that the numbers are complex. They are simple numbers and simple to figure out...for anyone who wants to work them out, or research them. Google...works wonders for research.... I never said anything DIRECTLY about me being smarter than you..I just ask you to deal in facts. Yes..I get frustrated by stubbornness and indirect answers...who doesn't??
@MyDormantSoul From your last post..I won't be surprised if you come back with attempted personal attacks on credibility, as opposed to sticking to fact..where this whole debate started..and the only place where we can actually learn something. Do you love it when poliiticians avoid answering questions directly? DO you like it when they give vague financial figures? Do you love the personal attack style, as opposed to talking about real issues, educating, and actually making REAL commitments?
@MyDormantSoul "you are using numbers to talk about interest rates, I am using fundamental arguments..."
Do you realize how idiotic that sounds? I find fundamental arguments are usually flawed and illogical. Are you sure that's what you want to base your side of the debate on rather than numbers? and if you look at those numbers, you'll see paulfornasier is right.
Do you understand the cycle of economics at all??? Do you understand that markets ALWAYS rise and fall?? DO you understand that good economics follows that cycle and has to take it seriously into account. Do you realize that Martin got us through the tech crash around 2000, without going into deficit AT ALL???
Your lack of thought is the same bullshit thought that allowed Bush to destroy the American economy for decades to come. Doesn't matter who is in power. Our Liberal govt in BC fucked us over...by overspending and cutting taxes right at the peak of an economic boom... And now we're in huge deficit..and what do they want to do??? Raise taxes now.... Is that a suprise??? AND the tax they want to keep is the most regressive tax...that again feeds money to corps....the HST...
Smart idiots are the worst! And we used to laugh at Bush. Not so funny anymore, now that its in Canada with a majority. I had no idea how many of my fellow countrymen were morons.
all of you fucking leftists can go fuck yourselves. We have a majority and we will save our long term economic health. Go take a seat at the online blog scene where you can brandish the only power you have left. Go complain, go dig up petty dirt, its easy to do that for a pm whos actually been in power. Fuck you liberals, the NDP does a better job than you ever could, and im glad theyre the official opposition. Now we can have a real two party nation. and the conserv's can actually do their job
@BoredomCorner you can call liberals centerist all you want, and you can call a member of an opposition party a Fascist all you want but that doesnt change the fact that the Liberals rely on raising corporate taxes for government investment. That is a left wing strategy. Liberals believe in social programs spent by government, that is left wing strategy. The left wing treats government like its a charity, concentrating social power from voluntary, non gov orgs to the forced taxation of the state
@MyDormantSoul NDP is leftist, liberal is centerist. That's how it is. Honestly all parties are screaming foul play when a party does something ignorant/dishonest, but in the end all of them would probably do the same thing in that situation. So... are you saying we let them be dishonest or we deamnd a change?
@ProjectDraco I respect your political posture but I still stand by my post The liberals are leftwing and the NDP are far left. Both parties use government intervention as an attempt at economic stimulus and social welfare. It is only the conserv's whose strategy revolves around lowering tax rates and cutting social programs, the other parties create such programs only to be forced to cut them 5 years later to reduce debt Even the current conservs can be seen as centrist with all their spending
@MyDormantSoul I see your point. To be completely frank I agree to a certain point. You make valid arguments; something very rare on a youtube comments forum :) At this point I can only point out that my opinion of social programs is drastically different from yours, and no amount of arguing will change that. If the conservatives manage to cut down our debt and lower taxes, I will be incredibly relieved. However, that is not exactly the way we are heading with the current cons policy.
@MyDormantSoul That is a totally flawed analysis,because history doesn't back it. You're likely just using the one issue of economic stimulus from the recent downturn..when Dion led the Liberals. Are you gonna tell me that the Liberals under Chretien and with Martin as finance minster were left wing? Are budget balancing and surplusses left wing? Is cutting back on govt, and govt spending left wing? Harper has been having the largest cabinets in Canadian history,and has expanded size of govt..
@MyDormantSoul Is expanding govt right wing? Is creating massive deficits right wing? Alot of hypocrisy from all sides is probably more the truth than trying to attach political spectrum theory to everything. They do what supports their best interests ...and they sometimes do small items to keep their support. We all know the dirty games of politicians from ALL parts of the spectrum. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Those who truly serve Canadians are very very rare..
@paulfornasier political spectrum theory exists because it is what characterizes and dictates what a party does and where it gets its voters. Harper is not creating a massive deficit, he is simply creating a deficit, every party would have done that, regardless. He is doing the opposite of expanding govt, he is cutting spending on social organizations and he is investing money in existing branches like the army and the criminal justice system, I dont where your getting this idea of expanding gov
@MyDormantSoul Check out the facts. If the actual size of govt is getting bigger....more employees...than govt is increasing. Bush did the same.. Also, check it out yourself...add up the cost of the GST cuts, the personal tax cuts...and corp tax cuts. The research I have looked at adds the total cost of lost revenue since Harper started governing.. The total lost revenue per annum for 2012/13 is estimated to be over $40 billion. This is far beyond the estimated deficit for that year..
@MyDormantSoul Do you know how much money get transferred into corporate hands with the intro of the HST..a tax clearly supported by Harper? A VERY regressive tax..Now that corporate taxes have been reduced so drastically, who is/will be paying the interest costs on the debt. The main burden will be the middle class hourly workers..who get screwed on virtually every policy.This is the REAL problem with this govt. I run my business as a corp actually,but I HATE to see so many people get screwed..
@MyDormantSoul We are now at record debt levels and rising. I believe we are supposed to incur at least another $100 bill in debt above the record levels. What will happen if interest rates start rising due to inflation? Look at how much profit corporations are making right now.. banks and oil companies especially..and yet we keep feeding them money form the hands of people who are really struggling with debt. We were paying $30 bill per year in interest in 2008. Just think what could happen...
@paulfornasier I understand that corporations have many negative aspects as you say, but the simple fact is, when corporations dont have money they lay ppl off, when they do have money they invest and grow. They will pay their shareholders either way, but they will lay off employees as soon as they have to, lets not let them do that and cut their taxes, so they be useful idiots and start charities and create jobs. And every party was going to go into deficit, not just the conservatives.
@MyDormantSoul What you are TOTALLY neglecting is the concept of FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY and the ramifications of ignoring it. You are not assessing responsibility for actions. With Bush, he initiated war. He could have made a surgical strike on Bin Laden..and stopped there..but he chose to create a major war that continues to this day in Afghanistan..that has very little or nothing to do with the original reason for the attack. AND he chose to go into Iraq..totally unjustified as we all know.
@paulfornasier Remember that tax cuts serve the RICHEST corps the most...so do personal tax cuts serve the richest people the most. Let's not fool ourselves.... If you're rich..you may justification in playing into their dogma and irresponsiblity. If you're just in the middle...you're seriously getting fooled..and I don't mince my words.... Mark my words....sometime in the future...we will face a similar crisis again..as in the 90's when Martin had to cut back govt big time to get balance..
@MyDormantSoul I run a corp..so don't feed me bs about what corps do and don't do. We did just fine during the 90's with a surplus. These is not evidence to show we have done any better with the extreme and unbalanced tax cuts that Harper has initiated. Who will pay for the extra 50% national debt that Harper will have added by 2014?? In 2008, we were paying around $30 billion per year in interest on the debt. We all know that interest rates will rise..as inflation is becoming a factor...
@MyDormantSoul interest rates at 2008 levels will mean an additional $15 billion per year in added interest costs due to the projected rise in our debt. Is this worth it? No once could EVER justify giving away $15 billion per year to banks or other debt holders to justify tax cuts. How are we EVER going to pay back this extra $200 billion in debt that they are projected to add??.most of which is already confirmed. $40 billion per year lost in tax cuts by 2012/13...not including debts costs...
@MyDormantSoul Do you understand the HST and how it works for corporations. I make an additional 7% on all the materials I purchase as a contractor these days...as compared to the non-HST days. This is a HUGE transfer of money from consumers to corporations I never got a rebate for PST before..and now I get a full rebate on it The only people that got a rebate on PST before were retailers... Prior to the HST, the PST was only a tax deduction..BIG DIFFERENCE.
@MyDormantSoul YOu can play partisan politics all you want..but I don't give a shit who is in power.. If they are NOT fiscally responsible...and they can't prove why they are in debt with REAL: facts....then I have a BIG problem with them.....and so should all Canadians. AND if you're a working person getting paid by the hour....you better care a hell of alot. Tell me why they increased EI premiums also...at the same time as cutting taxes to serve the rich corps....
@MyDormantSoul When you add 50% to debt without real justification..there will be a price to pay. Look at the GOP..idiots..still wanting tax cuts..when the US is in abominable fiscal shape. Deep cuts to spending..I can understand ..but borrowning for tax cuts as an ongoing policy is stupid and sadly..typical short term politics. Us citizens suffer so the politicians can get another term in office.. is this what we REALLY want from people who are elected & spend OUR money & that of our children??
@MyDormantSoul Now..check out how much of the deficit is stimulus at this point. Stimulus is almost completely wrapped up at this point...and still the deficit is over $30 billion. How do you explain that? Most Canadians are too uneducated to figure out anything about how govts are spending their money...but even so...why would we let ourselves get fooled when we have access to the real figures? THe problem with ALL politicians is that they are too busy trying to get elected or stay elected...
@MyDormantSoul Regarding expanding or shrinking govt...check out what Paul Martin did in the late 90's. THAT was reducing govt. Look at the size of Harper's cabinets....record size almost every time he makes a change now.. He's following the new trend to create junior posts as little prizes and wasting our money... He is following what Bush did so closely. Notice how Bush kept lowering taxes, even when he was ridiculously out of fiscal balance?? He fooled the poor and catered to the rich.
@paulfornasier You have to tread carefully when discussing Bush policy and comparing him to conservatives alike. Bush was in office during wartime, and as such, the moron overspent on military and neglected focus on the economy. That doesnt mean his use of tax cuts was bad, it just came at the same time of military spending. Coporate tax cuts are a long term beneficiary, when foreign companies want to invest, they go to the countries with the lowest taxes, this did not create their deficits
@MyDormantSoul Question for you....how did Martin manage to get us through the tech crash and recession around 2000 without going into deficit at all??? That was big crash..but yet we still remained in balance or surplus. Why is Harper putting us through at least 6 years of debt?? ..when it is clear by the figures that it is ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY??? It pisses me off to no end...of course it's deception of the middle class. Corporations pay so little tax. and even less because of the HST.
@MyDormantSoul The HST is a totally regressive tax..as it is applied the same to the poor, as to the rich...same with the old GST. Is it no wonder that they are all products of Conservative governments?? In my opinion, tax cuts only work, as long as our debt costs are low....and as long as we are NOT creating debt. Otherwise, you have to balance in the cost of creating LONG TERM debt...and there is little chance you can EVER justify that..especially when we were already over $30% of gdp...
@paulfornasier None of what u said proved that he "fooled the poor." Thats why we must tread carefully with bush, because there is a high density of rhetoric connected to his name, and unless u r prone to conspiracy theorem, then we must look at him with a critical eye and watch our sentences. Now lets look at harper. yes he is lowering taxes, yes he is investing in military, but he is not spending trillions, he is not initiating patriot acts and he is not at war, he is updating 30 yr old jets
@MyDormantSoul Let's deal with facts and numbers....that is how you get a balanced budget, and this is what is expected of a fiscally conservative govt. I don't give a shit who is in govt...I want a govt that takes care of my money. This is where Bush failed miserable in the US...and that is such a huge understatement. And not Harper is doing the same. Let's say interest rates come back to 2008 levels..and this is not far-fetched....
@MyDormantSoul And hey..every party wanted STIMULUS... That does not translate to every party wanting to go into DEFICIT. Listen to Harper himself. in the end, they justified stimulus as a support for the world economy, based on the meetings of ministers from around the world. They DID NOT blame it on other parties...as many Conservatives on Youtube love to do. They were the governing party...and anything they do is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY...not the responsiblity of anyone else....
@paulfornasier you seem to think that tax cuts for the rich = deficits. Its one thing for a gov't to spend into a deficit its another for them to maintain high tax credits for businesses. The NDP would have run a deficit TOO, the only difference is that they would have taxed businesses, and spent the money on welfare programs that dont even sustain themselves. Harper cut spending to tons of programs so that he could secure the long term stability of Canada.
@MyDormantSoul Tell me where Harper cut spending on programs. Harper has actually Increased the size of govt significantly...just as Bush did in the US.....the exact opposite of what a Conservative is supposed to do. AND once again..the other. You blame stimulus on the other parties. See what Harper and Flaherty have to say about that....AND you equate deficts with stimulus. There is virtually no stimulus happening anymore and we are still in huge deficit...LOL.. Where is your l;ogic???
@paulfornasier Y do u keep saying that I lack logic? Cutting taxes isn't spending. Stop being a fear monger and an alarmist, this isnt the US, the govt has already made arrangements to clear the deficit by 2014, wtf r u going on about? Every country runs a deficit, its technically called a "strategic deficit" ppl go into debt, and they repay it, so calm down, our economy is not going to collapse from a deficit. And yes, the NDP also considered a strategic deficit, they r Keynesian economists.
@MyDormantSoul You have no idea about economics... We were in dire straits in the early 90's when Martin began as finance minister. We have now surpassed that level of debt again..and will likely add at least another 15 - 20%. How do you run your own finances?? Do you neglect interest costs?? We are going into record territory....and it is dangerous to go there unnecessarily. And YES....cutting taxes is cutting the supply side of revenue...
@paulfornasier your not listening, u keep going off on alarmism, your not listening. They already worked out how theyre going to pay the deficit off, its in their budget proposal. its in their budget proposal. its in their budget proposal. We dont have a federal reserve, we are cutting costs, i just showed you how harper cut costs. He is keep taxes low so that foreign investors will come in, employ ppl, and pay taxes. How do they "keep spending" they bought the jets, they built the jails. done
@MyDormantSoul You are a total fool to believe the words of a politician the way you do. I can't say it any better... You are not parroting all the bullshit you hear. Yes..I am listening to every word you say...and I hear NO INDEPENDENCE OF THOUGHT. That is how you get screwed. Why do you think I looked for research on the cost of tax cuts??? Watch what happens down the road when interest rises and we get into trouble. Will you be whining about the same guys you're supporting???
@paulfornasier its in the budget proposal, its passed and scrutinized through parliament, no one is saying the country is going to collapse, no one is saying the strategic deficit is going to destroy us. Theres the opinions of a politician and theres the outline of a government budget. What dont you understand about that?
@MyDormantSoul Look...the budget parliamentary officer also has trouble with the COnservative forecast for balance. DO you realize that?? I bet you don't. Again..you're jsut parroting bullshit...without doing any research. You will be the fool in the end...I guarantee it. If you think believe a politician and never questioning their decisions is good....then you go ahead. If you run a corp...yes..you will benefit..as I do....but you don't see the big picture AT ALL ...
and dont think I dont have an independence of thought. dumber ppl would appeal to the emotional panderings of a sympathetic NDP plan, I accept the costs and the harsh face of the conservative platform and I choose my political party. Im not parroting so much as Im reiterating the facts. Ive seen my fair share of economic alarmism and doom prediction, I know your discourse, and Im saying its wrong, dont insult my intelligence.
@MyDormantSoul You are the typical dogmatic supporter of the Conservatives. Are you religious?? ...because it's often religious people that don't talk rationally and operate with FACT. They make politics like religion..where it's about faith and belief, instead of fact and logic.. I gave you numbers about tax cuts...we are talking numbers about deficit...and you have refuted absolutely nothing with fact or logic in regard to the solid research I gave you. That SAYS ALOT..
@MyDormantSoul How long did it take us to pay off just over $100 billion of debt? With constant tax cuts..how are we EVER going to pay off any debt down the road. My bet is it will be left to a future govt to raise taxes, which is absolute bullshit. You can't cut your supply SO DRASTICALLY and expect to balance the books. Where are the cuts going to come from. My guess-we will achieve balance if lucky..and then the boom will crash,as is normal,and back into more deficit-total bullshit economics
@paulfornasier so u want low costing employment insurance, but then u want hardlined fiscal policy, so what is it? The conservatives r the most fiscal of all the parties, I have pretty much just showed u that. The liberals might have had a chance, but theyre done now. So stop getting pissed at harper, hes the best one out there, and while u dont have to like every single piece of his policy, u can still respect him and not call him a fascist like too many have done.
@MyDormantSoul Higher EI screws the working guy. Our EI is already so high...and the extra revenue for EI is NOT NEEDED. It's another way of funding tax cuts to corps. Is that fair?? You are SO FUCKING BLIND..excuse my language... Do you know how much extra tax burden has been added to the middle and lower classes with this govt? Who will carry the burden of the debt that is created now?? Yes..NOT the corporations....
@paulfornasier Im not blind, theres a clear strategy to corporate tax cuts. There are economic benefits from corporate tax cuts, the working class will have a hard time regardless. like I said before, every country runs a deficit, does that mean every country is going to collapse? No, America might, theres is in the trillions. Ours deficit has JUST formed. What do u want to do? Wipe the slate clean? Just magically form a surplus? That takes investment and employment, via corporate invesment
@MyDormantSoul Our deficit is in RECORD territory... What the hell difference does it make if the debt is NEW debt...LOL... The figure to look at is % of GDP... The concern has to be about future interest rates.... Do you understand that?? Come on...stop this stupidity of justifying it because others are in debt. Is that how you justify your own stupid debts??? ...and there are many countries in trouble now because of high deficits. Do you know what is happening in Europe??
@paulfornasier no i am not religious, not all supports of conservativism r likened to FOX news, Bush, and the TEA party, stop insulting my character, u dont know me or my philosophical endeavours. U r making the same tipical arguments of an american leftist. Bush caused the defict because of spending on 2 WARS, not from tax cuts. And lowering interest rates only causes bubbles, so dont go thinking that as a solution to growing debt.
@MyDormantSoul I give up on you. You have neglected numbers totally. I NEVER said you were religious. I asked you if you were...because you were acting like religious people do when they vote. I NEVER said anything about lowering interest rates. I cautioned about RISING interest rates...as we CAN'T lower them any further...LOL. We have NO ROOM for movement to lower now..and that is a big risk in itself. Good luck with your idea of cutting taxes endlessly.
@MyDormantSoul You ARE blind!! Do you understand debt maintenance costs. Before the crash in 2008, the Conservative govt was paying about $30 billion in interest payments on the debt. Adding 50% more debt will mean an additional 50% added to those interest costs. Do you understand this basic enonomics? If interest rates rise to the 2008 level, we will be losing $15 billion PER YEAR to interest...and this will continue until we are back to the 2008 principal level of debt.....
@MyDormantSoul Do you understand basic numbers?? Who gets screwed when we have $15 billion per year less for govt programs...yes...mostly the middle and working classes again.....and in the end...everyone loses...because the regular consumer stops spending... Do you understand these basics?? The US is screwed now for the same reason....the regular guy has little money to spend as house prices are still staying at around FIFTY PERCENT of the 2008 level. People save when they don't have money.
@paulfornasier And youve just supported my claim y we need more privatization and less govt programs. By increasing corporate investment, we allow our industries to flourish independent of govt budgets. Thats y we shouldnt allow ppl to become dependant on welfare programs, y we need less focus on EI and more on job creation. I am aware of the debt clock too, and conservatism is the best bet. They are already cutting party subsidies which will save tons of money.
@paulfornasier when u raise taxes, u give ppl less money and thus they will not spend it. The economy will become weaker with raised taxes and artificially lowered interested rates. And like I said, every country is in debt, there exists more interest than actual money. THATS THE CONTEMPORARY FINANCIAL SYSTEM. whos going to call in debt on every country in the world? The banks? no, they r beholden to those same countries that keep their revenues pumping.
@MyDormantSoul Creating debt takes money away from the country in a signigicant longterm way. Do you actually get that fact??? Do you understand how much you pay in interest on a longterm mortgage?? Do you understand that you most likely pay at least twice the value of your house over time??? Do you understand that money paid on interest is a longterm suck on the economy..especially at the level we're at?? Do you understand short term politics???
@MyDormantSoul In regard to Bush..do you understand the impact of the sub-prime mortgage crisis ..and the amount of debt that that caused?? Do you know the cost of the tax cuts the GOP instituted and keep wanting to institute...and the long term cost of the debt being used to finance those cuts?? You are being SO INCREDIBLY SIMPLISTIC to just state that war is the cause of their debt. In isolation, it's a ridiculous statement. Yes,,,it's a bad part of what he did...but not nearly the worst..LOL
@paulfornasier The subprime mortgage crisis came from ppl borrowing more money than they could make back, how is that a result of tax cuts. Its simplistic because its a simple fact, when businesses have money they tend not to lay off more ppl. Foreign investors choose the countries with the least taxes, I have to keep reiterating that because its a simple truth. U want to raise taxes, give ppl less money so that they wont buy a house that they wont be able to pay off either way? thats foolish
@MyDormantSoul Your description of the subprime mortgage crisis was laughable. Do you think the whole western world would have been fooled by something as transparent as you describe??? No...they got fooled by total fraud.... Anyone with a brain could see that... You think that longtime banks and investors could get ripped of by something as simple as you describe.??? Hehe...
@paulfornasier wtf r u talking about? its quite simple really. The crisis came from subprime borrowers, those who werent likely to pay off their interests but borrowed the money anyway. Then all their debts were called in and they couldnt pay them off. resulting in foreclosures, tax cuts didnt have shit to do with it.
@MyDormantSoul LOL..I'll quit befor this gets stupid. YOu have done NO research at all..if you believe that the subrpime mortgage fiasco is not related to the packaging of financial instruments.. Please take your dumbed down debate somewhere else... DO you trade stocks or do any investment?? if you did. you would know the details of the subprime mortgage crisis. I read Bloomberg news almost every day....
@paulfornasier and now your running away just as im about to quote all your contradictions and foolish arguments. No really, you actually are contradicting yourself in many instances and r getting too emotional for a good argument. Just because you threw in a few numbers doesnt mean your right.
@MyDormantSoul Stop justifying yourself with whining now...just GIVE the freakin facts.....so we can discuss something real. AND it is absolutely true that you need to do research if you want to keep your govt accountable. Seriously...do you REALLY think you can trust everything your favourite poltician says to you? If I was a major corp shareholder...or very rich...it would be fine..because you know that regardless of what happens...you won't be responsible for much...
@paulfornasier Im sorry but its not simply what politicians tell me. its what is officialized on public broadcasts as well as through the scrutiny of a parliament. I hear this from the counter arguments of opposing parties and i hear it from third party watch dogs, this is not me simply taking the word of a politician. I am aware of your discourse, so calm down and stop calling me one of the many slurs you have leveled against me.
@MyDormantSoul You're saying economics and numbers are not related. A statement like that kills one's credibility. I don't think you want to be that guy.
@paulfornasier I hope you received all three of these comments, it appears that you are reading my earlier comments later than i post them as they are not all identified as separate notifications on the youtube inbox. That said, you say you were hoping for an intelligent discussion with me. Does an intelligent discussion with you involve agreeing with you? Does it involve accepting your reiterations of someone else's ideas, something we both do? What is wrong with taking a particular stance?
@MyDormantSoul DO you realize the misinformation that gets spouted on Youtube. Do you realize in real debate that you are wasting people's time if you spout things without backing them properly...and continue to justify them without proper research? Ya..it's fine for stupid arguing that amounts to nothing. I started debating you because I thought you were going to respond with intelligent info...and back yourself up..but you don't...
@paulfornasier i am backing myself up. I am using an economic and political strategy that doesnt necessarily need the phrasing of numbers to counter argue you. I could dig up numbers to back that up, but i am currently in the middle of debating you.
@MyDormantSoul You are so vague...... How did Martin get us into surplus?? He did it by NOT lowering taxes...and by cutting govt ruthlessly to get into balance. In good times, he lowered taxes and kept a surplus..and in harder times, he maintained the course to keep us in surplus. The impression I get is that you have absolutely no idea about financial management and fiscal balance.. Corp tax cuts are ONLY worthwhile when they are producing NET GAINS in regard to govt revenue and GDP.
@paulfornasier Sorry Im not an economist, but neither r you. I have done my independant research as a university student and I have many numerous inquires about economics and Canadian politics. The simple fact of the matter is, YOU are saying that corp tax cuts are only worthwhile when they are "producing net gains" for government revenue. Last time I checked, corporations were independant of government, and creating jobs and giving taxpayers more money did not depend on "govt revenue"
@MyDormantSoul Again...you are being siimplistic....corp tax cuts work if they produce net GDP gains...and the tax revenue part is a natural gain if the GDP rises...AND....if you finance with debt..then the tax cut HAS to produce a NET revenue gain....or it is not worthwhile to do it. Why do a tax cut that will put you in negative territory in regard to revenue?? That is plain stupid economics.. And we elect our govt to take care of OUR money. Who give a shit if corps are independent...
@MyDormantSoul And you are stupid to dumb yourself down by saying that you can't figure out the economics of your govt. You can believe that about yourself..but quit inflicting your excuses for ignorance on someone else. You have give absolutely NO figures at all..and fail to respond to ANYfigures I give.. THAT says alot....
@paulfornasier just because im not throwing numbers into my comments doesnt mean my comments are invalid. stop trying to argue that. I am addressing your arguments, Im saying the conservative govt is better than any other party, hes reducing the most spending. Hes strengthening our economy through said tax cuts, he or any other leader is going to clear the national debt, but he can manage the deficit. U seem to be likening the national debt to the deficit.
@MyDormantSoul You're fighting partisan politics again...exactly what I said you would do..when I made the comment about religion. I DON"T give a shit about partisan politics. DId I make that clear earlier. I care about fiscal responsbility...keeping my govt in check..... I care about what they are ACTUALLY doing..and not what they SAY they are doing. I'll say it bluntly...you have to be an idiot to trust polticicans by their word..
@MyDormantSoul Read you last post completely, especially the end part...and tell me whether you are making any logical sense at all... You are starting to flail, rather than settling down and using facts that debate..... Numbers is what economics is about..and you provide NONE at all....
@paulfornasier Ndp wants "a more generous employmant insurance for families that must leave work to care for their dependants," wants to "$1500 a year to caregiver families," wants to "transfer 800 million to provinces to lower tuition fees." and the list goes on. U wanna worry about spending? These ideas all sound nice but do not pump back money, do not create any jobs, and involve the taxation of oil industries, businesses, and involve a failed cap&trade system and carbon taxation. see NDP.ca
@MyDormantSoul You keep spouting partisan bullshit. Do you want responsible govt or not?? Then quite fucking fooling yourself about what our govt is doing. How fooled were the Americans with Bush, and they elected him for 2 terms. The electorate is plain stupid a large percentage of the time, and we all know it..and then they bitch like fools afterwards. Have a fucking independent mind. Do you actually think any politician tells you the truth most of the time??? Think again.....
@MyDormantSoul If your govt is going to work properly. we have to speak up. Otherwise, any polician will play short term politics...and we all get screwed in the end...the regular folk anyway. Do you think Bush actually served all his supporters. No....he made it VERY CLEAR several times..when caught...that he ws serving the rich...as they were his main support. All the regular and poorer people...especially the fool conservative christians got royally screwed by him...
@paulfornasier prisons stop overcrowding and create jobs, our older jets were from the 80s, and the tax cuts will bring investment to Canada instead of USA, who have higher corp taxes than us. You may not like the idea of saving money for the rich (who are going to be rich eitherway) but I prefer creating jobs over creating welfare programs that only waste money and do not pump it back in. How many times do I have to say: every party was going to run a deficit. U CANT HAVE A SURPLUS FOREVER
@MyDormantSoul You FAIL to a choice to cut taxes when the cost of all the Conservative tax credits will amount to over $40 billion lost per year in revenue as of 2012/13. How do you explain the decisions to pursue them....when we really didn't have a big longterm impact on our country due to this recesssion. At this point, the biggest impact IS the defict created. Out here in BC, construction is booming again... We are looking at about $200 billion in debt created...that is insane...and why??
@paulfornasier And yes, Harper has cut govt spending. he cut spending to military generals and base personnel, he cut the $5 billion Kelowna accord, 1.2 billion from childcare, cut science research by 138 million, cut funding to women's advocacy groups by "43%" He is cutting spending so that he can balance the budget and make his payments in the future. The NDP wants to "double the benefits within the Canada/Quebec pension plan, increase the guaranteed income supplement for every senior."
@MyDormantSoul Do you pay a mortgage?? Do you realize the full cost to longterm debt. Do you see what Bush economics has done to the US?? How do you ever make up for $40 billion in cuts?? That is insane..and they keep spending... Do you really understand what FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY is? This used to be a solid principle of Conservatives....and it is totally falling by the wayside. Do you realize that they have raised EI premiums and justify it?? The working guy gets fucked by Harper..
@MyDormantSoul Who gives a shit what other parties want. The problem is lack of fiscal responsibility. The Conservative said alll kinds of bullshit when they were in opposition. Quit the blaming, and look at whether this govt is doing the right thing. I'm not a fucking NDP'er or Liberal, dude. I just want fiscal responsiblity and WE ARE NOT GETTING iT....no matter how much you want to bullshit....
@MyDormantSoul "You seem to equate tax cuts for the rich = deficits" ... Do you do math at all....like an economist should???? $40 billion per year in lost revenue.....not including the huge cost of longterm debt....and a current deficit projection of between $30 and $40 billion for the past year... No logic for you there??? If you have any descendants at all, you should be seriously worried about their longterm debt. We are going to be SERIOUSLY into record debt in the next few years....
@paulfornasier I may not agree with the jets but our last ones were from the 80s, but I do the like the tax cuts and im intrigued by the prisons. The prisons create jobs for local communities and create innovation in the prison system, which allow for greater surveillance techniques and less inmate crime. plus we wont ever have to worry about overcrowding issues for decades. And he doesnt have absolute power he has a majority in a parliament, where left wing parties outnumber conservative ones
@MyDormantSoul So, what does it say when a govt states that the reason for the deficit is the economic downturn, when it is absolutely clear that the deficit was largely created by their policies. And at this point...we can say SOLELY created by their policies. How about he increase in EI premiums they have now introduced? Who pays the large part of the debt maintenance now that they are projected to increase our national debt around 50% above when they first took power? That is a HUGE rise.
@paulfornasier I don't think the scare tactics of this ad are the main issue at all. It's the incredible deception of the regular people in this country. The fact that we DO NOT need to be in deficit anymore... The stimulus forms a small amount of our deficit right now... Canada did NOT suffer so much in the downturn. Most of our fiscal suffering is clearly linked to tax cuts from the COnservatives...AND ..I DON"T believe in the trickle down theory. Corp profit goes to shareholders...
LEAVE CANADA WHILE U CAN..NO FUTURE HERE...OVERTAXED, HIGH GAS, HOME AND RENT. THERE R FEW JOBS LEFT. NO MATTER WHO VOTE 4..THEY WILL RAISE THE HAPPY SALES TAX. OR CREATE ANOTHER TAX...JUST 2 GET A COUPLE MORE BUCKS 4 THEIR PENSION'S.... AND IF QUEBEC SPLIT'S WHO CARES. AND IF ALBERTA SPLIT'S...THERE GOES CANADA..WE WILL B BROKE...4 SURE....
@Bribickhed6 Oh really? Harper dug us deeper into debt than any PM in history, ignored the recession, and has crushed dissent a lot even with a minority. This video is prescient.
@Bribickhed6 prove they aren't lies. Although I do agree they aren't all truth (why exaggerate the facts when you could stick to a modestly compromising truth?) I can find you actual quotations by Stevie himself that prove parts of the video.
But I do agree, instead of smear campaigns wouldn't it be nice if a party could get elected on their merits alone?
jcjccjcj@bs.com Harper is actually doing this. He IS closing Womens Advocate and Resourse Centers. My City Womens Resource closes April 27,2011. Funding cut off. What do the members of his "Consertive Party" or "Dictatorship " feel about this. Is Harper just allowed to willy nilly close whatever HE chooses? Perhaps he does think he's GOD. He is a liar. He knew about the CRIMINAL RECORDS of his associates.BUT they are his CRONIES. Be ashamed if you running Conservative Ticket.
The privilege to qualify to live in the green belt managed by NCC. Help me help you we are all about the environment. Cleaning the air we breathe, Just look at what’s been standing in our way, airadvocates on youtube there are some cool stop motion videos. NCC General Meeting air-medics.ca/newadventures/ web site. Look what they been standing in the way of. Help suport The Clean Air Party
I have not seen a single conservative commercial this election that isn't an attack ad. Does Harper have anything constructive to say? He's already gagging reporters by limiting them to 4 questions! And the one question he won't answer is why we can't ask question.
This man wants to be the prime minister, and yet he obviously can't think on his feet.
you sad misguided fools, dont you realize that the liberal coalition is going to implode? a selfish power-hungry liberal? a socialist? and a seperatist? good luck with that. Thankfully most Canadians have realized this, and the Conservatives are well on their way to a solid majority government :)
@teamgod maybe its just because everytime he does a speech, he doesnt say 'Canada' once, its just quebec this and quebec that. And its pretty well known (by people with common sense) that the bloc have wanted to seperate for a long time.
Vote BQ, NDP or Liberals. All are for the same thing, gettting Harper the fuck out of control! Work together to get this war loving, money wasting shit-fuck out of office!
Liberal goverment had allowed the "Tainted Blood, Hepatitus, Aids" scandal and wold not even compensate the thousands of victims. It was the Liberals who had the "campaign funds" scandal, Chetien money scandal, etc.. etc... Now anyone who votes Conservative is villified as Right Wing for simply wanting integrity in Government. Go figure!
Biased Media CBC which receives over a BILLION $ of your money for funding this propaganda.
We could save all AIDS patients in the World instead!
liberal mentality is scary to say the least. I sure don't want my son growing up in a liberal society, brainwashed, controlled by fear mongering dimwits. To me, liberals are freedom takers, they want bigger government and more useless feel-good laws. There is NOT ONE good government party, but to choose from these 2 evils, I, and my family, will always vote Conservative until there is a better choice. We need a government that listens to it's people. NOT LIEBERALS!
@fcarabat Um, you did notice that Harper has shut down Parliament to save his own ass, is covering-up torture, is violating Supreme Court orders, and turned Toronto into a police state, right? And that Harper's government is the largest in Canadian history? And that neo-cons tend to be the biggest fearmongers?
@yodasecondave You serious? What are they gonna do? Not protect their massive international meeting and LET the protestors storm the building? What country in their right mind, police state or not, is going to let thousands of protestors break into a high level, international government meeting? Some cops may have got a bit extreme, which once again, always happens in every country, but that doesn't mean fucking Canada is a police state. I would know if it was. I live just off of toronto.
@MyDormantSoul I think that may be a slight misrepresentation of the situation. Yes there was a need to enforce the law and protect property from the destruction caused by a few bad eggs. The vast majority of peaceful individuals exercising their right to assembly and protest did not call for the response that the Toronto police chose. p.s. Grew up @ dundas & college you are not the only Torontonian on line
@BoredomCorner peaceful? peaceful? peaceful? You call smashing the windows of small stores; ones owned by small business owners who can just barely manage to scrape a living in an unforgiving city, you call that peaceful? They burnt a bunch of cars, whipped rocks at everything in sight, and you call that peaceful? I like a good protest like the next guy, and yeah globalization is pretty fucked up and protest is good for the g20. But for fuck's sake, dont bitch at the cops for breaking up a riot
@MyDormantSoul Too bad they didn't break up a riot. They let the riot move right past them, and then beat up a thousand people who were just standing in the street.
Try reading articles or watching the many unedited videos on the G20.
@BoredomCorner So you're blaming a political party for the failings of a police force that got caught up in the heat of a chaotic riot? are you aware that every riot squad on aerth has gone off the handle when threatened by an outnumbering crowd of rioters? If what you say is true then are you saying the conservatives didnt spend enough in ensuring proper law enforcement at the time? Either way you just want a reason to get mad at the fuckin government and legitimize propaganda like this video.
@MyDormantSoul Are you aware that the G20 was a federal operation, and that the police force was ORDERED to behave the way that they did (particularly, ignore the Black Bloc riot)?
There are plenty of reasons to be mad at the government -- record deficits on useless projects, endless propaganda ads on our dime, total ignorance of the economy, contempt of Parliament, obstructing torture investigations, forging government documents, etc.
Mr Harper did everything that he said he would do...and more.not like Charest is doing to the people of Québec .Do you all remember the Coalition.Dion affiliated with Duceppe WTF.Thank you Harper for your 400$ a month beacause i got 4 kids and that fucking money helps me .and thank you Mr Harper to bring back the Diesel price back to be lower then regular .taxes wise i meen .thank you for bringing down the taxes 2% and fuel taxe 50%..For once i glade of my vote.
@dk234 That's why our international reputation is in the shitter, he's spending billions of dollars that we don't have, on things we don't even remotely need, and he's taking credit for Liberal policies that kept us mostly fine in the recession?
and its the Liberals who would love nothing more than for our military to have outdated equipment, thank God the Conservatives are in and aren't letting that happen.
@diehardcutie Yeah, the Conservatives are giving us jets that barely work, to fight enemies in the Arctic that don't even exist. They're REALLY an improvement.
@BoredomCorner they barely work? really, how so? says who? I guess Russia really isn't an enemy, they really don't want our arctic and the arctic doesn't really have anything worth fighting for. You're so right! Now if I had an IQ of a pancake like you, I'd agree with you. However since I don't and I actually have an education, I don't agree with you and I can laugh at how dumb you are for believing that bullshit
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Remember, conservative party of Canada is really just the reform party with a new name.
analtechcorp 1 week ago
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Harper is clearly an AGENDA man .. bolster the economy building prisons.. because they're such a great investment right ? .. but wait.. you need PEOPLE to put in PRISONS.. dont you ?.. Oh ,, where do we get people for new prisons , from .. Hmmmm Oh yeah .. ANYONE who falls under the wheels of the SYSTEM.
WeAskThePeople 3 months ago
I am a canadian with a brain and I support this ad.
ImSoOffended 5 months ago
@ImSoOffended You cant have a brain.
justanoldman1 2 months ago
Mr. Harper has just struck a free trade agreement with Honduras Now let's try to figure out how that could possibly be good news for Canadians. I guess when a number of Canadian businesses shut down operations here in Canada and move out to Honduras where they can pay workers less than half what they are currently paying in wages here, the business owners can thank Steve. The unemployed Canadians can blame themselves for voting in this fool. And if you complain, he'll say you're a whiner.
bboots100 6 months ago
no we need to know the platforme of the liberals we dont need attack ads STOP IT
gerryemery 7 months ago
@gerryemery
Fuck the Liberals. They butchered the west coast of canada for decades and two of the three biggest provincial economies are out here. Liberals and all the supporters advocate open borders, socialism and bias quebec nonsense. Your scum!
Reido2828 5 months ago
Oh yes, I forgot. The cold and calculating Stephen Harper. The one with the "hidden agenda". How did that tripe work for you in the last election? Harper is neither a moron or an evil leader. For Christ sake, are you telling me Harper is an evil dictator? Why don't you go live in Zimbabwe for a while and then comment on how similar Harper and the govt. of Zimbabwe are. Only in a liberal mind.
just4tunes 7 months ago
Thank God for Stephen Harper and our strong majority government.
just4tunes 8 months ago
@just4tunes Mugabe has a strong majority government too. Should the people of Zimbabwe thank God for that?
Libertyjack1 8 months ago
@Libertyjack1 Yeah..Canada - Zimbabwe. Same thing right? Wise up.
just4tunes 8 months ago
@just4tunes ummm I do not think he was comparing the 2 countries, just that having a majority is not always a good thing. Wise up
lordrazr 7 months ago
@lordrazr well why mention Canada and Zimbabwe in the same sentence unless comparing?What's better? Minority governments where nothing gets done but political grandstanding by the opposition? I'd tell you to wise up but it sounds like it's not possible.
just4tunes 7 months ago
@just4tunes holy fuck, are you serious? The commonality is evil leaders, morons running a country, etc. That's it bro, i cannot believe you could take his comment any other way!
lordrazr 7 months ago
Do you know why I referred to religion?? Because religous people take their belief as unchangeable..and then try to justify it in any way they can. You are doing the same in politics. Any rational person (we are speaking about politics now) looks at facts and rationale FIRST and then makes up their minds about beliefs. By being stubborn in thought, you are setting yourself for manipulation by ANY politician..as truth is NOT their priority. Staying in power IS their priority...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
LOL..just read your stubbornness of thought...and that says it all. It was entertaining just to sit back and see what you do when I say I'm going elsewhere. ...Anyhow, I AM going to bed. And this is not ending because of disagreement. It is ending because you are NOT taking the time to listen properly and to back your arguments with numbers. Economics IS about numbers..no matter how much you want to bullshit yourself. I NEVER asked you to respond right away. Get your numbers and facts..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
Good luck. We have profound disagreements...and i am only moving on to other more worthwhile debate. You are clearly not researching anything in any depth here. Your synopsis of the subprime crisis was so incredibly lame...for someone who claims to have knowledge of economics. Sorry..time to go to bed...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
I NEVER said any of the bullshit you're spouting that I said. Quote me on where I said any of that bullshit. I said that tax cuts are plain stupid when you have created a huge deficit...because you are financing them with debt. Quit misquoting me.....and read properly...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier i will gladly quote you, one moment
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
I'm giving up real soon... Do we end up with more...if we raise taxes and finance them ith debt..and then paying debt maintenance for endless years to finance them??? We end up with LESS money in the end...and the middle and working class will pay the price...because they carry the tax burden. If you want to keep discussing...you need to start using numbers..or I give up on you...Sorry...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
Did I connect the subprime mortgage crisis to tax cuts?? Holy shit... The prime reason for the sub-prime mortgage crisis was the packaging of financial instruments by Goldman Sachs to sell mortgages in a stock form..with a falsely overrated risk rating. Do you understand this? If the mortgages were sold at the proper risk rathing...then the possiblity of default would have been recognized by the market and they would not have been allowed to happen by pure market forces.. LOL..do research..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier So you admit what I said! Corp tax cuts didnt cause the subprime mortgage crisis, and the bush tax cuts did not cause the crash! So u agree with me when I say that it wasnt tax cuts, but overspending on 2 wars and a housing market crash that caused the debt, not lower taxes.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You are fighting like a child...never looking at the big picture and quibbling about stupidity..and just trying to prove endlessly that your'e right in some way. Do you realize the immaturity of that??..and you NEVER procuce any solid financial facts and figures. Keep fooling yourself.... and go satisfy your petty ego elsewhere please....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier stop making personal attacks, and no I am addressing your comments, you are the one whos getting emotional, you r the one whos ignoring my counter arguments, basic fundamentals that poke holes in your alarmism. just look at what you are saying.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You are constantly misquoting me. I never linked tax cuts to the subprime crisis ever. I always link them to using debt to finance them,......and you keep going back to linking them constantly..LOL.. AND you NEVER provide clear facts and numbers about anything. AND you keep spouting partisan crap that I clearly don't give a shit about... Numbers is what makes economics. If you REALLY have studied economics, you would know that....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier No, you are using numbers to talk about interest rates, I am using fundamental arguments, those that r the base of a certain political and economic strategy, that dont necessarily contain numbers in the given context, and using them to talk about the economy as a whole as well as to discuss the subprime mortgage crisis, as well as the moves of the bush era. I am addressing your issues of interest rates with a counter argument that there is more to the economy than that one subject
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul So, you are basically saying that numbers are irrelevant to economics? YOU are the simplistic one that is solely focussing on tax cuts as some kind of incredible solution to everything. You are the one who acts like your favourite politician is incredibly trustworthy...LOL I am looking at a multifaceted balance of economics..where there is a time for cutbacks...tax cuts..refraining from cuts...looking that debt, interest rates...GDP...debt to GDP ratio... Give me a break..LOL..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier you are misunderstanding what I am saying and you are running away. I am currently writing down all your contradictions on a WORD page. You seem to believe that the numbers that you have given are highly complex and that I ignored them, I am not and many economists on my side of politics are not either, you are not smarter than me, you are not more advanced than the economics of the conservative party, you are not in the right, you are running away now.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul LOL..and when did I say that my numbers are "highly complex"?? You seem to be making life more difficult for YOURSELF by thinking that the numbers are complex. They are simple numbers and simple to figure out...for anyone who wants to work them out, or research them. Google...works wonders for research.... I never said anything DIRECTLY about me being smarter than you..I just ask you to deal in facts. Yes..I get frustrated by stubbornness and indirect answers...who doesn't??
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul From your last post..I won't be surprised if you come back with attempted personal attacks on credibility, as opposed to sticking to fact..where this whole debate started..and the only place where we can actually learn something. Do you love it when poliiticians avoid answering questions directly? DO you like it when they give vague financial figures? Do you love the personal attack style, as opposed to talking about real issues, educating, and actually making REAL commitments?
paulfornasier 9 months ago
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@MyDormantSoul "you are using numbers to talk about interest rates, I am using fundamental arguments..."
Do you realize how idiotic that sounds? I find fundamental arguments are usually flawed and illogical. Are you sure that's what you want to base your side of the debate on rather than numbers? and if you look at those numbers, you'll see paulfornasier is right.
gricer1326 9 months ago
Do you understand the cycle of economics at all??? Do you understand that markets ALWAYS rise and fall?? DO you understand that good economics follows that cycle and has to take it seriously into account. Do you realize that Martin got us through the tech crash around 2000, without going into deficit AT ALL???
paulfornasier 9 months ago
Your lack of thought is the same bullshit thought that allowed Bush to destroy the American economy for decades to come. Doesn't matter who is in power. Our Liberal govt in BC fucked us over...by overspending and cutting taxes right at the peak of an economic boom... And now we're in huge deficit..and what do they want to do??? Raise taxes now.... Is that a suprise??? AND the tax they want to keep is the most regressive tax...that again feeds money to corps....the HST...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
Smart idiots are the worst! And we used to laugh at Bush. Not so funny anymore, now that its in Canada with a majority. I had no idea how many of my fellow countrymen were morons.
TheBairdo 9 months ago
all of you fucking leftists can go fuck yourselves. We have a majority and we will save our long term economic health. Go take a seat at the online blog scene where you can brandish the only power you have left. Go complain, go dig up petty dirt, its easy to do that for a pm whos actually been in power. Fuck you liberals, the NDP does a better job than you ever could, and im glad theyre the official opposition. Now we can have a real two party nation. and the conserv's can actually do their job
MyDormantSoul 10 months ago
@MyDormantSoul That's funny, Harper already attacked our long term economic health by splurging the surplus before we even had a recession.
(oh and by the way, the Liberal party was never leftist -- not that I'd expect a fascist to care about facts)
BoredomCorner 10 months ago
@BoredomCorner you can call liberals centerist all you want, and you can call a member of an opposition party a Fascist all you want but that doesnt change the fact that the Liberals rely on raising corporate taxes for government investment. That is a left wing strategy. Liberals believe in social programs spent by government, that is left wing strategy. The left wing treats government like its a charity, concentrating social power from voluntary, non gov orgs to the forced taxation of the state
MyDormantSoul 10 months ago
@MyDormantSoul NDP is leftist, liberal is centerist. That's how it is. Honestly all parties are screaming foul play when a party does something ignorant/dishonest, but in the end all of them would probably do the same thing in that situation. So... are you saying we let them be dishonest or we deamnd a change?
ProjectDraco 10 months ago
@ProjectDraco I respect your political posture but I still stand by my post The liberals are leftwing and the NDP are far left. Both parties use government intervention as an attempt at economic stimulus and social welfare. It is only the conserv's whose strategy revolves around lowering tax rates and cutting social programs, the other parties create such programs only to be forced to cut them 5 years later to reduce debt Even the current conservs can be seen as centrist with all their spending
MyDormantSoul 10 months ago
@MyDormantSoul I see your point. To be completely frank I agree to a certain point. You make valid arguments; something very rare on a youtube comments forum :) At this point I can only point out that my opinion of social programs is drastically different from yours, and no amount of arguing will change that. If the conservatives manage to cut down our debt and lower taxes, I will be incredibly relieved. However, that is not exactly the way we are heading with the current cons policy.
ProjectDraco 10 months ago
@MyDormantSoul That is a totally flawed analysis,because history doesn't back it. You're likely just using the one issue of economic stimulus from the recent downturn..when Dion led the Liberals. Are you gonna tell me that the Liberals under Chretien and with Martin as finance minster were left wing? Are budget balancing and surplusses left wing? Is cutting back on govt, and govt spending left wing? Harper has been having the largest cabinets in Canadian history,and has expanded size of govt..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Is expanding govt right wing? Is creating massive deficits right wing? Alot of hypocrisy from all sides is probably more the truth than trying to attach political spectrum theory to everything. They do what supports their best interests ...and they sometimes do small items to keep their support. We all know the dirty games of politicians from ALL parts of the spectrum. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Those who truly serve Canadians are very very rare..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier political spectrum theory exists because it is what characterizes and dictates what a party does and where it gets its voters. Harper is not creating a massive deficit, he is simply creating a deficit, every party would have done that, regardless. He is doing the opposite of expanding govt, he is cutting spending on social organizations and he is investing money in existing branches like the army and the criminal justice system, I dont where your getting this idea of expanding gov
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Check out the facts. If the actual size of govt is getting bigger....more employees...than govt is increasing. Bush did the same.. Also, check it out yourself...add up the cost of the GST cuts, the personal tax cuts...and corp tax cuts. The research I have looked at adds the total cost of lost revenue since Harper started governing.. The total lost revenue per annum for 2012/13 is estimated to be over $40 billion. This is far beyond the estimated deficit for that year..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Do you know how much money get transferred into corporate hands with the intro of the HST..a tax clearly supported by Harper? A VERY regressive tax..Now that corporate taxes have been reduced so drastically, who is/will be paying the interest costs on the debt. The main burden will be the middle class hourly workers..who get screwed on virtually every policy.This is the REAL problem with this govt. I run my business as a corp actually,but I HATE to see so many people get screwed..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul We are now at record debt levels and rising. I believe we are supposed to incur at least another $100 bill in debt above the record levels. What will happen if interest rates start rising due to inflation? Look at how much profit corporations are making right now.. banks and oil companies especially..and yet we keep feeding them money form the hands of people who are really struggling with debt. We were paying $30 bill per year in interest in 2008. Just think what could happen...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier I understand that corporations have many negative aspects as you say, but the simple fact is, when corporations dont have money they lay ppl off, when they do have money they invest and grow. They will pay their shareholders either way, but they will lay off employees as soon as they have to, lets not let them do that and cut their taxes, so they be useful idiots and start charities and create jobs. And every party was going to go into deficit, not just the conservatives.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul What you are TOTALLY neglecting is the concept of FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY and the ramifications of ignoring it. You are not assessing responsibility for actions. With Bush, he initiated war. He could have made a surgical strike on Bin Laden..and stopped there..but he chose to create a major war that continues to this day in Afghanistan..that has very little or nothing to do with the original reason for the attack. AND he chose to go into Iraq..totally unjustified as we all know.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Remember that tax cuts serve the RICHEST corps the most...so do personal tax cuts serve the richest people the most. Let's not fool ourselves.... If you're rich..you may justification in playing into their dogma and irresponsiblity. If you're just in the middle...you're seriously getting fooled..and I don't mince my words.... Mark my words....sometime in the future...we will face a similar crisis again..as in the 90's when Martin had to cut back govt big time to get balance..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul I run a corp..so don't feed me bs about what corps do and don't do. We did just fine during the 90's with a surplus. These is not evidence to show we have done any better with the extreme and unbalanced tax cuts that Harper has initiated. Who will pay for the extra 50% national debt that Harper will have added by 2014?? In 2008, we were paying around $30 billion per year in interest on the debt. We all know that interest rates will rise..as inflation is becoming a factor...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul interest rates at 2008 levels will mean an additional $15 billion per year in added interest costs due to the projected rise in our debt. Is this worth it? No once could EVER justify giving away $15 billion per year to banks or other debt holders to justify tax cuts. How are we EVER going to pay back this extra $200 billion in debt that they are projected to add??.most of which is already confirmed. $40 billion per year lost in tax cuts by 2012/13...not including debts costs...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Do you understand the HST and how it works for corporations. I make an additional 7% on all the materials I purchase as a contractor these days...as compared to the non-HST days. This is a HUGE transfer of money from consumers to corporations I never got a rebate for PST before..and now I get a full rebate on it The only people that got a rebate on PST before were retailers... Prior to the HST, the PST was only a tax deduction..BIG DIFFERENCE.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul YOu can play partisan politics all you want..but I don't give a shit who is in power.. If they are NOT fiscally responsible...and they can't prove why they are in debt with REAL: facts....then I have a BIG problem with them.....and so should all Canadians. AND if you're a working person getting paid by the hour....you better care a hell of alot. Tell me why they increased EI premiums also...at the same time as cutting taxes to serve the rich corps....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul When you add 50% to debt without real justification..there will be a price to pay. Look at the GOP..idiots..still wanting tax cuts..when the US is in abominable fiscal shape. Deep cuts to spending..I can understand ..but borrowning for tax cuts as an ongoing policy is stupid and sadly..typical short term politics. Us citizens suffer so the politicians can get another term in office.. is this what we REALLY want from people who are elected & spend OUR money & that of our children??
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Now..check out how much of the deficit is stimulus at this point. Stimulus is almost completely wrapped up at this point...and still the deficit is over $30 billion. How do you explain that? Most Canadians are too uneducated to figure out anything about how govts are spending their money...but even so...why would we let ourselves get fooled when we have access to the real figures? THe problem with ALL politicians is that they are too busy trying to get elected or stay elected...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Regarding expanding or shrinking govt...check out what Paul Martin did in the late 90's. THAT was reducing govt. Look at the size of Harper's cabinets....record size almost every time he makes a change now.. He's following the new trend to create junior posts as little prizes and wasting our money... He is following what Bush did so closely. Notice how Bush kept lowering taxes, even when he was ridiculously out of fiscal balance?? He fooled the poor and catered to the rich.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier You have to tread carefully when discussing Bush policy and comparing him to conservatives alike. Bush was in office during wartime, and as such, the moron overspent on military and neglected focus on the economy. That doesnt mean his use of tax cuts was bad, it just came at the same time of military spending. Coporate tax cuts are a long term beneficiary, when foreign companies want to invest, they go to the countries with the lowest taxes, this did not create their deficits
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Question for you....how did Martin manage to get us through the tech crash and recession around 2000 without going into deficit at all??? That was big crash..but yet we still remained in balance or surplus. Why is Harper putting us through at least 6 years of debt?? ..when it is clear by the figures that it is ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY??? It pisses me off to no end...of course it's deception of the middle class. Corporations pay so little tax. and even less because of the HST.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul The HST is a totally regressive tax..as it is applied the same to the poor, as to the rich...same with the old GST. Is it no wonder that they are all products of Conservative governments?? In my opinion, tax cuts only work, as long as our debt costs are low....and as long as we are NOT creating debt. Otherwise, you have to balance in the cost of creating LONG TERM debt...and there is little chance you can EVER justify that..especially when we were already over $30% of gdp...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier None of what u said proved that he "fooled the poor." Thats why we must tread carefully with bush, because there is a high density of rhetoric connected to his name, and unless u r prone to conspiracy theorem, then we must look at him with a critical eye and watch our sentences. Now lets look at harper. yes he is lowering taxes, yes he is investing in military, but he is not spending trillions, he is not initiating patriot acts and he is not at war, he is updating 30 yr old jets
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Let's deal with facts and numbers....that is how you get a balanced budget, and this is what is expected of a fiscally conservative govt. I don't give a shit who is in govt...I want a govt that takes care of my money. This is where Bush failed miserable in the US...and that is such a huge understatement. And not Harper is doing the same. Let's say interest rates come back to 2008 levels..and this is not far-fetched....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul And hey..every party wanted STIMULUS... That does not translate to every party wanting to go into DEFICIT. Listen to Harper himself. in the end, they justified stimulus as a support for the world economy, based on the meetings of ministers from around the world. They DID NOT blame it on other parties...as many Conservatives on Youtube love to do. They were the governing party...and anything they do is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY...not the responsiblity of anyone else....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier you seem to think that tax cuts for the rich = deficits. Its one thing for a gov't to spend into a deficit its another for them to maintain high tax credits for businesses. The NDP would have run a deficit TOO, the only difference is that they would have taxed businesses, and spent the money on welfare programs that dont even sustain themselves. Harper cut spending to tons of programs so that he could secure the long term stability of Canada.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Tell me where Harper cut spending on programs. Harper has actually Increased the size of govt significantly...just as Bush did in the US.....the exact opposite of what a Conservative is supposed to do. AND once again..the other. You blame stimulus on the other parties. See what Harper and Flaherty have to say about that....AND you equate deficts with stimulus. There is virtually no stimulus happening anymore and we are still in huge deficit...LOL.. Where is your l;ogic???
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Y do u keep saying that I lack logic? Cutting taxes isn't spending. Stop being a fear monger and an alarmist, this isnt the US, the govt has already made arrangements to clear the deficit by 2014, wtf r u going on about? Every country runs a deficit, its technically called a "strategic deficit" ppl go into debt, and they repay it, so calm down, our economy is not going to collapse from a deficit. And yes, the NDP also considered a strategic deficit, they r Keynesian economists.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You have no idea about economics... We were in dire straits in the early 90's when Martin began as finance minister. We have now surpassed that level of debt again..and will likely add at least another 15 - 20%. How do you run your own finances?? Do you neglect interest costs?? We are going into record territory....and it is dangerous to go there unnecessarily. And YES....cutting taxes is cutting the supply side of revenue...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier your not listening, u keep going off on alarmism, your not listening. They already worked out how theyre going to pay the deficit off, its in their budget proposal. its in their budget proposal. its in their budget proposal. We dont have a federal reserve, we are cutting costs, i just showed you how harper cut costs. He is keep taxes low so that foreign investors will come in, employ ppl, and pay taxes. How do they "keep spending" they bought the jets, they built the jails. done
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You are a total fool to believe the words of a politician the way you do. I can't say it any better... You are not parroting all the bullshit you hear. Yes..I am listening to every word you say...and I hear NO INDEPENDENCE OF THOUGHT. That is how you get screwed. Why do you think I looked for research on the cost of tax cuts??? Watch what happens down the road when interest rises and we get into trouble. Will you be whining about the same guys you're supporting???
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul meant to say..you "ARE" parrotting everything your hear....not you "ARE NOT"....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier its in the budget proposal, its passed and scrutinized through parliament, no one is saying the country is going to collapse, no one is saying the strategic deficit is going to destroy us. Theres the opinions of a politician and theres the outline of a government budget. What dont you understand about that?
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Look...the budget parliamentary officer also has trouble with the COnservative forecast for balance. DO you realize that?? I bet you don't. Again..you're jsut parroting bullshit...without doing any research. You will be the fool in the end...I guarantee it. If you think believe a politician and never questioning their decisions is good....then you go ahead. If you run a corp...yes..you will benefit..as I do....but you don't see the big picture AT ALL ...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
and dont think I dont have an independence of thought. dumber ppl would appeal to the emotional panderings of a sympathetic NDP plan, I accept the costs and the harsh face of the conservative platform and I choose my political party. Im not parroting so much as Im reiterating the facts. Ive seen my fair share of economic alarmism and doom prediction, I know your discourse, and Im saying its wrong, dont insult my intelligence.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Don't compare yourself to "dumber people"...LOL.. It doesn't flatter you...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You are the typical dogmatic supporter of the Conservatives. Are you religious?? ...because it's often religious people that don't talk rationally and operate with FACT. They make politics like religion..where it's about faith and belief, instead of fact and logic.. I gave you numbers about tax cuts...we are talking numbers about deficit...and you have refuted absolutely nothing with fact or logic in regard to the solid research I gave you. That SAYS ALOT..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul How long did it take us to pay off just over $100 billion of debt? With constant tax cuts..how are we EVER going to pay off any debt down the road. My bet is it will be left to a future govt to raise taxes, which is absolute bullshit. You can't cut your supply SO DRASTICALLY and expect to balance the books. Where are the cuts going to come from. My guess-we will achieve balance if lucky..and then the boom will crash,as is normal,and back into more deficit-total bullshit economics
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier so u want low costing employment insurance, but then u want hardlined fiscal policy, so what is it? The conservatives r the most fiscal of all the parties, I have pretty much just showed u that. The liberals might have had a chance, but theyre done now. So stop getting pissed at harper, hes the best one out there, and while u dont have to like every single piece of his policy, u can still respect him and not call him a fascist like too many have done.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Higher EI screws the working guy. Our EI is already so high...and the extra revenue for EI is NOT NEEDED. It's another way of funding tax cuts to corps. Is that fair?? You are SO FUCKING BLIND..excuse my language... Do you know how much extra tax burden has been added to the middle and lower classes with this govt? Who will carry the burden of the debt that is created now?? Yes..NOT the corporations....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Im not blind, theres a clear strategy to corporate tax cuts. There are economic benefits from corporate tax cuts, the working class will have a hard time regardless. like I said before, every country runs a deficit, does that mean every country is going to collapse? No, America might, theres is in the trillions. Ours deficit has JUST formed. What do u want to do? Wipe the slate clean? Just magically form a surplus? That takes investment and employment, via corporate invesment
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Our deficit is in RECORD territory... What the hell difference does it make if the debt is NEW debt...LOL... The figure to look at is % of GDP... The concern has to be about future interest rates.... Do you understand that?? Come on...stop this stupidity of justifying it because others are in debt. Is that how you justify your own stupid debts??? ...and there are many countries in trouble now because of high deficits. Do you know what is happening in Europe??
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier no i am not religious, not all supports of conservativism r likened to FOX news, Bush, and the TEA party, stop insulting my character, u dont know me or my philosophical endeavours. U r making the same tipical arguments of an american leftist. Bush caused the defict because of spending on 2 WARS, not from tax cuts. And lowering interest rates only causes bubbles, so dont go thinking that as a solution to growing debt.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul I give up on you. You have neglected numbers totally. I NEVER said you were religious. I asked you if you were...because you were acting like religious people do when they vote. I NEVER said anything about lowering interest rates. I cautioned about RISING interest rates...as we CAN'T lower them any further...LOL. We have NO ROOM for movement to lower now..and that is a big risk in itself. Good luck with your idea of cutting taxes endlessly.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You ARE blind!! Do you understand debt maintenance costs. Before the crash in 2008, the Conservative govt was paying about $30 billion in interest payments on the debt. Adding 50% more debt will mean an additional 50% added to those interest costs. Do you understand this basic enonomics? If interest rates rise to the 2008 level, we will be losing $15 billion PER YEAR to interest...and this will continue until we are back to the 2008 principal level of debt.....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Do you understand basic numbers?? Who gets screwed when we have $15 billion per year less for govt programs...yes...mostly the middle and working classes again.....and in the end...everyone loses...because the regular consumer stops spending... Do you understand these basics?? The US is screwed now for the same reason....the regular guy has little money to spend as house prices are still staying at around FIFTY PERCENT of the 2008 level. People save when they don't have money.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier And youve just supported my claim y we need more privatization and less govt programs. By increasing corporate investment, we allow our industries to flourish independent of govt budgets. Thats y we shouldnt allow ppl to become dependant on welfare programs, y we need less focus on EI and more on job creation. I am aware of the debt clock too, and conservatism is the best bet. They are already cutting party subsidies which will save tons of money.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@paulfornasier when u raise taxes, u give ppl less money and thus they will not spend it. The economy will become weaker with raised taxes and artificially lowered interested rates. And like I said, every country is in debt, there exists more interest than actual money. THATS THE CONTEMPORARY FINANCIAL SYSTEM. whos going to call in debt on every country in the world? The banks? no, they r beholden to those same countries that keep their revenues pumping.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Creating debt takes money away from the country in a signigicant longterm way. Do you actually get that fact??? Do you understand how much you pay in interest on a longterm mortgage?? Do you understand that you most likely pay at least twice the value of your house over time??? Do you understand that money paid on interest is a longterm suck on the economy..especially at the level we're at?? Do you understand short term politics???
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul In regard to Bush..do you understand the impact of the sub-prime mortgage crisis ..and the amount of debt that that caused?? Do you know the cost of the tax cuts the GOP instituted and keep wanting to institute...and the long term cost of the debt being used to finance those cuts?? You are being SO INCREDIBLY SIMPLISTIC to just state that war is the cause of their debt. In isolation, it's a ridiculous statement. Yes,,,it's a bad part of what he did...but not nearly the worst..LOL
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier The subprime mortgage crisis came from ppl borrowing more money than they could make back, how is that a result of tax cuts. Its simplistic because its a simple fact, when businesses have money they tend not to lay off more ppl. Foreign investors choose the countries with the least taxes, I have to keep reiterating that because its a simple truth. U want to raise taxes, give ppl less money so that they wont buy a house that they wont be able to pay off either way? thats foolish
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Your description of the subprime mortgage crisis was laughable. Do you think the whole western world would have been fooled by something as transparent as you describe??? No...they got fooled by total fraud.... Anyone with a brain could see that... You think that longtime banks and investors could get ripped of by something as simple as you describe.??? Hehe...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier wtf r u talking about? its quite simple really. The crisis came from subprime borrowers, those who werent likely to pay off their interests but borrowed the money anyway. Then all their debts were called in and they couldnt pay them off. resulting in foreclosures, tax cuts didnt have shit to do with it.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul LOL..I'll quit befor this gets stupid. YOu have done NO research at all..if you believe that the subrpime mortgage fiasco is not related to the packaging of financial instruments.. Please take your dumbed down debate somewhere else... DO you trade stocks or do any investment?? if you did. you would know the details of the subprime mortgage crisis. I read Bloomberg news almost every day....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier and now your running away just as im about to quote all your contradictions and foolish arguments. No really, you actually are contradicting yourself in many instances and r getting too emotional for a good argument. Just because you threw in a few numbers doesnt mean your right.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Stop justifying yourself with whining now...just GIVE the freakin facts.....so we can discuss something real. AND it is absolutely true that you need to do research if you want to keep your govt accountable. Seriously...do you REALLY think you can trust everything your favourite poltician says to you? If I was a major corp shareholder...or very rich...it would be fine..because you know that regardless of what happens...you won't be responsible for much...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Im sorry but its not simply what politicians tell me. its what is officialized on public broadcasts as well as through the scrutiny of a parliament. I hear this from the counter arguments of opposing parties and i hear it from third party watch dogs, this is not me simply taking the word of a politician. I am aware of your discourse, so calm down and stop calling me one of the many slurs you have leveled against me.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You're saying economics and numbers are not related. A statement like that kills one's credibility. I don't think you want to be that guy.
gricer1326 9 months ago
@paulfornasier I hope you received all three of these comments, it appears that you are reading my earlier comments later than i post them as they are not all identified as separate notifications on the youtube inbox. That said, you say you were hoping for an intelligent discussion with me. Does an intelligent discussion with you involve agreeing with you? Does it involve accepting your reiterations of someone else's ideas, something we both do? What is wrong with taking a particular stance?
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul DO you realize the misinformation that gets spouted on Youtube. Do you realize in real debate that you are wasting people's time if you spout things without backing them properly...and continue to justify them without proper research? Ya..it's fine for stupid arguing that amounts to nothing. I started debating you because I thought you were going to respond with intelligent info...and back yourself up..but you don't...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier i am backing myself up. I am using an economic and political strategy that doesnt necessarily need the phrasing of numbers to counter argue you. I could dig up numbers to back that up, but i am currently in the middle of debating you.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You are so vague...... How did Martin get us into surplus?? He did it by NOT lowering taxes...and by cutting govt ruthlessly to get into balance. In good times, he lowered taxes and kept a surplus..and in harder times, he maintained the course to keep us in surplus. The impression I get is that you have absolutely no idea about financial management and fiscal balance.. Corp tax cuts are ONLY worthwhile when they are producing NET GAINS in regard to govt revenue and GDP.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Sorry Im not an economist, but neither r you. I have done my independant research as a university student and I have many numerous inquires about economics and Canadian politics. The simple fact of the matter is, YOU are saying that corp tax cuts are only worthwhile when they are "producing net gains" for government revenue. Last time I checked, corporations were independant of government, and creating jobs and giving taxpayers more money did not depend on "govt revenue"
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Again...you are being siimplistic....corp tax cuts work if they produce net GDP gains...and the tax revenue part is a natural gain if the GDP rises...AND....if you finance with debt..then the tax cut HAS to produce a NET revenue gain....or it is not worthwhile to do it. Why do a tax cut that will put you in negative territory in regard to revenue?? That is plain stupid economics.. And we elect our govt to take care of OUR money. Who give a shit if corps are independent...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul And you are stupid to dumb yourself down by saying that you can't figure out the economics of your govt. You can believe that about yourself..but quit inflicting your excuses for ignorance on someone else. You have give absolutely NO figures at all..and fail to respond to ANYfigures I give.. THAT says alot....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier just because im not throwing numbers into my comments doesnt mean my comments are invalid. stop trying to argue that. I am addressing your arguments, Im saying the conservative govt is better than any other party, hes reducing the most spending. Hes strengthening our economy through said tax cuts, he or any other leader is going to clear the national debt, but he can manage the deficit. U seem to be likening the national debt to the deficit.
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You're fighting partisan politics again...exactly what I said you would do..when I made the comment about religion. I DON"T give a shit about partisan politics. DId I make that clear earlier. I care about fiscal responsbility...keeping my govt in check..... I care about what they are ACTUALLY doing..and not what they SAY they are doing. I'll say it bluntly...you have to be an idiot to trust polticicans by their word..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Read you last post completely, especially the end part...and tell me whether you are making any logical sense at all... You are starting to flail, rather than settling down and using facts that debate..... Numbers is what economics is about..and you provide NONE at all....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier Ndp wants "a more generous employmant insurance for families that must leave work to care for their dependants," wants to "$1500 a year to caregiver families," wants to "transfer 800 million to provinces to lower tuition fees." and the list goes on. U wanna worry about spending? These ideas all sound nice but do not pump back money, do not create any jobs, and involve the taxation of oil industries, businesses, and involve a failed cap&trade system and carbon taxation. see NDP.ca
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You keep spouting partisan bullshit. Do you want responsible govt or not?? Then quite fucking fooling yourself about what our govt is doing. How fooled were the Americans with Bush, and they elected him for 2 terms. The electorate is plain stupid a large percentage of the time, and we all know it..and then they bitch like fools afterwards. Have a fucking independent mind. Do you actually think any politician tells you the truth most of the time??? Think again.....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul If your govt is going to work properly. we have to speak up. Otherwise, any polician will play short term politics...and we all get screwed in the end...the regular folk anyway. Do you think Bush actually served all his supporters. No....he made it VERY CLEAR several times..when caught...that he ws serving the rich...as they were his main support. All the regular and poorer people...especially the fool conservative christians got royally screwed by him...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier prisons stop overcrowding and create jobs, our older jets were from the 80s, and the tax cuts will bring investment to Canada instead of USA, who have higher corp taxes than us. You may not like the idea of saving money for the rich (who are going to be rich eitherway) but I prefer creating jobs over creating welfare programs that only waste money and do not pump it back in. How many times do I have to say: every party was going to run a deficit. U CANT HAVE A SURPLUS FOREVER
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul You FAIL to a choice to cut taxes when the cost of all the Conservative tax credits will amount to over $40 billion lost per year in revenue as of 2012/13. How do you explain the decisions to pursue them....when we really didn't have a big longterm impact on our country due to this recesssion. At this point, the biggest impact IS the defict created. Out here in BC, construction is booming again... We are looking at about $200 billion in debt created...that is insane...and why??
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier And yes, Harper has cut govt spending. he cut spending to military generals and base personnel, he cut the $5 billion Kelowna accord, 1.2 billion from childcare, cut science research by 138 million, cut funding to women's advocacy groups by "43%" He is cutting spending so that he can balance the budget and make his payments in the future. The NDP wants to "double the benefits within the Canada/Quebec pension plan, increase the guaranteed income supplement for every senior."
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Do you pay a mortgage?? Do you realize the full cost to longterm debt. Do you see what Bush economics has done to the US?? How do you ever make up for $40 billion in cuts?? That is insane..and they keep spending... Do you really understand what FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY is? This used to be a solid principle of Conservatives....and it is totally falling by the wayside. Do you realize that they have raised EI premiums and justify it?? The working guy gets fucked by Harper..
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Who gives a shit what other parties want. The problem is lack of fiscal responsibility. The Conservative said alll kinds of bullshit when they were in opposition. Quit the blaming, and look at whether this govt is doing the right thing. I'm not a fucking NDP'er or Liberal, dude. I just want fiscal responsiblity and WE ARE NOT GETTING iT....no matter how much you want to bullshit....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul "You seem to equate tax cuts for the rich = deficits" ... Do you do math at all....like an economist should???? $40 billion per year in lost revenue.....not including the huge cost of longterm debt....and a current deficit projection of between $30 and $40 billion for the past year... No logic for you there??? If you have any descendants at all, you should be seriously worried about their longterm debt. We are going to be SERIOUSLY into record debt in the next few years....
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier I may not agree with the jets but our last ones were from the 80s, but I do the like the tax cuts and im intrigued by the prisons. The prisons create jobs for local communities and create innovation in the prison system, which allow for greater surveillance techniques and less inmate crime. plus we wont ever have to worry about overcrowding issues for decades. And he doesnt have absolute power he has a majority in a parliament, where left wing parties outnumber conservative ones
MyDormantSoul 9 months ago
@MyDormantSoul So, what does it say when a govt states that the reason for the deficit is the economic downturn, when it is absolutely clear that the deficit was largely created by their policies. And at this point...we can say SOLELY created by their policies. How about he increase in EI premiums they have now introduced? Who pays the large part of the debt maintenance now that they are projected to increase our national debt around 50% above when they first took power? That is a HUGE rise.
paulfornasier 9 months ago
@paulfornasier I don't think the scare tactics of this ad are the main issue at all. It's the incredible deception of the regular people in this country. The fact that we DO NOT need to be in deficit anymore... The stimulus forms a small amount of our deficit right now... Canada did NOT suffer so much in the downturn. Most of our fiscal suffering is clearly linked to tax cuts from the COnservatives...AND ..I DON"T believe in the trickle down theory. Corp profit goes to shareholders...
paulfornasier 9 months ago
LEAVE CANADA WHILE U CAN..NO FUTURE HERE...OVERTAXED, HIGH GAS, HOME AND RENT. THERE R FEW JOBS LEFT. NO MATTER WHO VOTE 4..THEY WILL RAISE THE HAPPY SALES TAX. OR CREATE ANOTHER TAX...JUST 2 GET A COUPLE MORE BUCKS 4 THEIR PENSION'S.... AND IF QUEBEC SPLIT'S WHO CARES. AND IF ALBERTA SPLIT'S...THERE GOES CANADA..WE WILL B BROKE...4 SURE....
chadberry75 10 months ago 2
@chadberry75 -Guess you are moving too?
bgibb101 10 months ago
Ha! what a hoax. This movie is full of nothing but bogas. these are all lies
Bribickhed6 10 months ago
@Bribickhed6 Oh really? Harper dug us deeper into debt than any PM in history, ignored the recession, and has crushed dissent a lot even with a minority. This video is prescient.
BoredomCorner 10 months ago
@Bribickhed6 prove they aren't lies. Although I do agree they aren't all truth (why exaggerate the facts when you could stick to a modestly compromising truth?) I can find you actual quotations by Stevie himself that prove parts of the video.
But I do agree, instead of smear campaigns wouldn't it be nice if a party could get elected on their merits alone?
ProjectDraco 10 months ago
Fuck the Liberals
BlondeEyeCandy 10 months ago
jcjccjcj@bs.com Harper is actually doing this. He IS closing Womens Advocate and Resourse Centers. My City Womens Resource closes April 27,2011. Funding cut off. What do the members of his "Consertive Party" or "Dictatorship " feel about this. Is Harper just allowed to willy nilly close whatever HE chooses? Perhaps he does think he's GOD. He is a liar. He knew about the CRIMINAL RECORDS of his associates.BUT they are his CRONIES. Be ashamed if you running Conservative Ticket.
charleneosland 10 months ago 2
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For a real FUCK UP... Vote for this dufus on election and watch the country go to the immigrants... anyone for mandarin or arabic
TheWatcherAngel 10 months ago
For a real FUCK UP... Vote for this dufus on election and watch nthe country go to the immi9grants... anyone for mandarin or arabic
TheWatcherAngel 10 months ago
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The privilege to qualify to live in the green belt managed by NCC. Help me help you we are all about the environment. Cleaning the air we breathe, Just look at what’s been standing in our way, airadvocates on youtube there are some cool stop motion videos. NCC General Meeting air-medics.ca/newadventures/ web site. Look what they been standing in the way of. Help suport The Clean Air Party
AirAdvocates 11 months ago
I have not seen a single conservative commercial this election that isn't an attack ad. Does Harper have anything constructive to say? He's already gagging reporters by limiting them to 4 questions! And the one question he won't answer is why we can't ask question.
This man wants to be the prime minister, and yet he obviously can't think on his feet.
RunSolo 11 months ago 2
after all they said i would still vote for harper over the slim ball ignatieff or layton
longliverocknroll5 11 months ago
Talk about two totally different top comments lol.
StealSandwich 11 months ago
you sad misguided fools, dont you realize that the liberal coalition is going to implode? a selfish power-hungry liberal? a socialist? and a seperatist? good luck with that. Thankfully most Canadians have realized this, and the Conservatives are well on their way to a solid majority government :)
zazszdzfzgzhzjzkzlzx 11 months ago
@zazszdzfzgzhzjzkzlzx
hahaha "a separatist"? where did you hear that? the fear-mongering attack ads the cons have been putting on TV? you're kinda dumb.
teamgod 11 months ago
@teamgod maybe its just because everytime he does a speech, he doesnt say 'Canada' once, its just quebec this and quebec that. And its pretty well known (by people with common sense) that the bloc have wanted to seperate for a long time.
zazszdzfzgzhzjzkzlzx 11 months ago
Vote BQ, NDP or Liberals. All are for the same thing, gettting Harper the fuck out of control! Work together to get this war loving, money wasting shit-fuck out of office!
DrinkSkateSleep 11 months ago
This man is the most uncanadian pm we ever had. How ever he would make a good governor to some southern state.
vincevince801 1 year ago 2
You know who was a disaster for Canada? Trudeau. Harper is good for Canada.
fatoni698 1 year ago
@fatoni698 Harper is systematically destroying our democracy -- how is he a good person?
BoredomCorner 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Liberal goverment had allowed the "Tainted Blood, Hepatitus, Aids" scandal and wold not even compensate the thousands of victims. It was the Liberals who had the "campaign funds" scandal, Chetien money scandal, etc.. etc... Now anyone who votes Conservative is villified as Right Wing for simply wanting integrity in Government. Go figure!
Biased Media CBC which receives over a BILLION $ of your money for funding this propaganda.
We could save all AIDS patients in the World instead!
bobisnohere1 1 year ago
liberal mentality is scary to say the least. I sure don't want my son growing up in a liberal society, brainwashed, controlled by fear mongering dimwits. To me, liberals are freedom takers, they want bigger government and more useless feel-good laws. There is NOT ONE good government party, but to choose from these 2 evils, I, and my family, will always vote Conservative until there is a better choice. We need a government that listens to it's people. NOT LIEBERALS!
fcarabat 1 year ago 2
@fcarabat Um, you did notice that Harper has shut down Parliament to save his own ass, is covering-up torture, is violating Supreme Court orders, and turned Toronto into a police state, right? And that Harper's government is the largest in Canadian history? And that neo-cons tend to be the biggest fearmongers?
Learn what you're talking about.
BoredomCorner 1 year ago
@BoredomCorner how the fuck is Toronto a Police State?
MyDormantSoul 1 year ago
@MyDormantSoul G20
yodasecondave 1 year ago
@yodasecondave You serious? What are they gonna do? Not protect their massive international meeting and LET the protestors storm the building? What country in their right mind, police state or not, is going to let thousands of protestors break into a high level, international government meeting? Some cops may have got a bit extreme, which once again, always happens in every country, but that doesn't mean fucking Canada is a police state. I would know if it was. I live just off of toronto.
MyDormantSoul 1 year ago
@MyDormantSoul I think that may be a slight misrepresentation of the situation. Yes there was a need to enforce the law and protect property from the destruction caused by a few bad eggs. The vast majority of peaceful individuals exercising their right to assembly and protest did not call for the response that the Toronto police chose. p.s. Grew up @ dundas & college you are not the only Torontonian on line
yodasecondave 11 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Too bad the protesters were not only peaceful, but NOWHERE NEAR the summit.
BoredomCorner 11 months ago
@BoredomCorner peaceful? peaceful? peaceful? You call smashing the windows of small stores; ones owned by small business owners who can just barely manage to scrape a living in an unforgiving city, you call that peaceful? They burnt a bunch of cars, whipped rocks at everything in sight, and you call that peaceful? I like a good protest like the next guy, and yeah globalization is pretty fucked up and protest is good for the g20. But for fuck's sake, dont bitch at the cops for breaking up a riot
MyDormantSoul 11 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Too bad they didn't break up a riot. They let the riot move right past them, and then beat up a thousand people who were just standing in the street.
Try reading articles or watching the many unedited videos on the G20.
BoredomCorner 11 months ago
@BoredomCorner So you're blaming a political party for the failings of a police force that got caught up in the heat of a chaotic riot? are you aware that every riot squad on aerth has gone off the handle when threatened by an outnumbering crowd of rioters? If what you say is true then are you saying the conservatives didnt spend enough in ensuring proper law enforcement at the time? Either way you just want a reason to get mad at the fuckin government and legitimize propaganda like this video.
MyDormantSoul 11 months ago
@MyDormantSoul Are you aware that the G20 was a federal operation, and that the police force was ORDERED to behave the way that they did (particularly, ignore the Black Bloc riot)?
There are plenty of reasons to be mad at the government -- record deficits on useless projects, endless propaganda ads on our dime, total ignorance of the economy, contempt of Parliament, obstructing torture investigations, forging government documents, etc.
BoredomCorner 11 months ago
It`s funny Federal Liberal party and the Bloc Québecois joined force
and Québec Liberal party and partie Québecois joined forces too.
Dion and Duceppe for the coalission and Charest and Marois to get Dumont out of Opposition .
sidekick418 1 year ago
Mr Harper did everything that he said he would do...and more.not like Charest is doing to the people of Québec .Do you all remember the Coalition.Dion affiliated with Duceppe WTF.Thank you Harper for your 400$ a month beacause i got 4 kids and that fucking money helps me .and thank you Mr Harper to bring back the Diesel price back to be lower then regular .taxes wise i meen .thank you for bringing down the taxes 2% and fuel taxe 50%..For once i glade of my vote.
sidekick418 1 year ago
It is because of Harper that Canada is doing really well. That is a fact.
dk234 1 year ago 2
@dk234 Because you say it's a fact doesn't make it a fact.
However, these are facts:
- the Conservatives opposed the bank regulations that the Liberals passed.
- the Conservatives brought our country into deficit before the economic crisis even hit us.
- the GST cut was a political decision, not a rational economic decision. Cutting income tax is widely accepted as a more prudent tax measure.
Take a swig of reality.
It's funny, but this attack ad isn't far from the truth.
avenuePad 1 year ago
@dk234 That's why our international reputation is in the shitter, he's spending billions of dollars that we don't have, on things we don't even remotely need, and he's taking credit for Liberal policies that kept us mostly fine in the recession?
BoredomCorner 1 year ago
and its the Liberals who would love nothing more than for our military to have outdated equipment, thank God the Conservatives are in and aren't letting that happen.
diehardcutie 1 year ago
@diehardcutie Yeah, the Conservatives are giving us jets that barely work, to fight enemies in the Arctic that don't even exist. They're REALLY an improvement.
BoredomCorner 1 year ago
@BoredomCorner they barely work? really, how so? says who? I guess Russia really isn't an enemy, they really don't want our arctic and the arctic doesn't really have anything worth fighting for. You're so right! Now if I had an IQ of a pancake like you, I'd agree with you. However since I don't and I actually have an education, I don't agree with you and I can laugh at how dumb you are for believing that bullshit
diehardcutie 1 year ago
@diehardcutie The US air force said that.
Look it up, you troll.