I received a similar response from Alfred Kroener this morning. I hadn't seen this video or I wouldn't have bothered him. I'm pretty sure his "hundreds" is up to "thousands" by now, poor bloke.
When Jeremias contacted me and said he would and could contact Kroner directly I knew it was game over. The lesson I took from it was how naive the scientists were at the time to attend the conference. I doubt that naivety about Islam still exists today and such media ambushes are now almost impossible. Though the damage that one conference did is still all over YouTube and elsewhere.
Phil, I note with some amusement that several of your detractors have accused you of being arrogant and self serving. I ask you, what could possibly be more arrogant and myopic than the notion that the entire universe, inconceivably vast and ancient, exists solely for the benefit and contemplation of mankind in his brief and fleeting blip of an existence therein? The day WILL come when we evolve beyond the need to derive answers and comfort from mythologies and superstitions.
To all muslims out there who are citing this geologist clearly misquoting his real thought. Do you really need such tricks? Are your arguments so weak and trembling that you need to turn to manipulating scientists in this way? I'm surprised, I thought you had better arguments than that. Luckily for you, I'm certain there are far more intelligent true muslims out there, who won't play games and tricks, and with whom a better understanding of each other is possible.
He is right, NO DOCTRINE tells us of the big bang, The big bang remains a THEORY, The qurans explination of the big bang is one VAUGUE line which tells us of the seperation of the heaveans and earth which to my knoweldge is flawwed because matter did not exist before the BB, also earth was born a considerable amount of time after the big bang the theory states.Also the quote could be tlakin exclusively about the earth not all the matter in the universe.
Your absolutely right, I'm not a judge or jury, but I can see a liar. Plus you called me the same thing, so I can say it back to you. You find me guilty but you are not the whole jury.
Just because you call someone irrational doesn't mean that person is. Stop all of your assumptions and labeling. Some people simply require more proofs. Everyone is different. I personally know people who have converted to Islam and required little evidence and others who required more. And YES, pride, arrogance and egos do exist and can hinder some people Phil. Peace.
BonsaiSky, if you are merely basing your life on a different definition of what proof is, and you consider that religions are proven by your definition, then do you believe that every religion is true, even the ones that say that their religion is the only one. Are they all true? At most one is right. How do you select which one is true, it's a cruel lottery.
theinquisitor. Mankind needs a religion because how do you decide what is good and what is bad? Some things that are acceptable here are deemed as unacceptable practices. God has to decide and the Qur'an obtains all the best of all religions. The Qur'an is the only Holy book on earth that withstand criticism. We are all arguing about translations; a choice of words. Nothing is like the original and I implore you to actual look into it further without accepting Phil as your source of knowledge.
Unacceptable practices. Like gay sex right? Yeah god made making love to your partner a sin if he happens to have the wrong meat between his legs. Like the all powerful creator of the universe would give a shit. It's ridiculous.
You don't know that god wrote the quran, you were just told that and it's just what it says in the book. That's it. The quran is a BOOK. Ink on paper. You can't prove it's anything other than that. It's pathetic.
Why are we discussing anything when you haven't even read the book in question? Read the Qur'an, you may be pleasantly surprised. No need to get rude please. Peace.
The religious do not pause to discuss science with no understanding whatsoever of even what science is, and you speak of arrogance. Your belief in the quran has no basis and you speak of assumptions. The claims of theists are that they know god's will, and they know this truth to be absolute, but if you knew god's will you would be a god. THAT is arrogance. THAT is assumption.
Why don't you just check it out for yourself. What do you have to lose. The Qur'an is not a book of science. It is a book of signs that contain verses of a scientific nature. Concepts that was not known in the 7th century. I am not arrogant and would appreciate it if you stop assuming things. Either the Qur'an is the word of God or it isn't. Read it for yourself objectively. I happen to believe it is. Peace.
Haha, you can't ask questions and then say just leave it :) - It is not like one word can have 100 different meanings, its not like that. I mean its explaining the big bang in a nutshell. They probably tried to envision it but that concept or idea wasn't even around in the 7th century so it was hard for them to grasp. I will check on the commentary from classical scholars to see what they say about that verse. I'll let you know what I find. Peace.
Simply because the Qur'an is a book for all times. If it was the last revelation then it should consist of verses not fully understood at the time when it was revealed only to be understood properly later. That's it. I am being rational and that is a reasonable explanation. It is true that some Arabic terms have various meanings but it is not my fault there aren't enough English terms to fully capture what the Qur'an is saying. We'll have to agree to disagree mate. Peace.
What Muslims are not in agreement? The Qur'an is not a science book. It obtains verses that make scientific claims in simple terms as we will never completely understand the complexity of life. As you say Muslims are blinded, I would say that the atheists are blinded by their own egos. Most atheists in my humble opinion have a superiority complex. We don't know everything and never will. Life is simply too intricate, detailed and complex to not have a Creator. Peace.
What would be wrong with a script? Many times people have prepared statements they read. What is wrong with that? Look, insinuating that these people who make statements supporting the Qur'an as being on the Saudi payroll is conjecture and nothing more in my humble opinion. Peace.
I can't believe how much you lie Phil and how much all these idiots believe you. You are rotten because we all know that you made that up because go watch vittorio new video which he has a link to see Kroner in a video, so try nic phil you got caught lying again.
We were making the point that you do indeed have a Hamza Yusuf-like goatee. Of course, you know HY, the Sunni Muslim American scholar. Maybe you can work on having a full, long beard like a Shii Ayatallah. :D
Chris, with all due respect, I disagree. Saudi oil money has nothing to do with anything. Vittorio provided the video backing his quote. Whether there was more said that would dispute the quote is another issue. Vittorio did not lie and if it was a misunderstanding then it was not intentional misleading on his part. Peace.
Arrogance. That's what can make a man reject. Some people require more proofs than others and with some people no matter how many proofs you give will not believe. Peace.
look the whole point of this is mute, even if an islamic scholar had the idea for an expanding universe or even the idea of a sigular beginning, aka big bang 1400 years ago then it would be just that,
a human with an idea, shock horror whats so mystical about that?
I mean we were building pyramids 4,000 years ago so its not too much of a stretch to believe that humans actually have brains and imaginations.
hey Phil, Excellent video, a point most eloquently made,
you seem to have an almost identical library to mine!
I just read an interesting book written by Richard Wiseman called "the luck factor" it gives the rational skeptics viewpoint on why some people seem to be luckier than others, very interesting stuff,
hey, keep up the fight and maybe the human race will finally grow up.
I've always wondered why the Muslims I've seen recently (TheCount4 and Vittorio203) either don't show themselves on their video or they highly censor their image. Seems to me they don't want you reading their body language. Body language can be VERY telling as to what a person is thinking versus what they are saying. (like lie detecting)
Well done, it was quite obvious to me that they were taken out of context, and distorted simply by objectively reading sites like quranicstudies dot com among others, the analogy I made yesterday of a scientist saying it was impossible for moses to have parted the red sea, and a Christian saying his statement had confirmed it had been done by god is quite fitting.
True, a lot is lost. But the remaining medieval Arabic manuscripts are estimated at 250.000, in the field of astronomy its around 10.000.
The works of many Arabic astronomers had been translated to European languages anyway because the precision of their calculations was unmatched in Europe.
Clean, clear, concise; utter, total and complete PWNAGE.
That was so perfect. Damn.
2eelShmeal 1 month ago
I received a similar response from Alfred Kroener this morning. I hadn't seen this video or I wouldn't have bothered him. I'm pretty sure his "hundreds" is up to "thousands" by now, poor bloke.
TheRationalizer 1 year ago
All the time I could almost hear a chainsaw approaching this twat's head.
And God, in the end, what a bloodbath.
arsenelupin123 2 years ago
When Jeremias contacted me and said he would and could contact Kroner directly I knew it was game over. The lesson I took from it was how naive the scientists were at the time to attend the conference. I doubt that naivety about Islam still exists today and such media ambushes are now almost impossible. Though the damage that one conference did is still all over YouTube and elsewhere.
philhellenes 2 years ago 3
owned to the power of infinity if such a thing is possible.
LiberateBDesh 2 years ago
hahaahah so owned
abigor315 3 years ago 6
Crippling ownage :)
holyhell5050 3 years ago 8
This comment has received too many negative votes show
what so many people have to take so many books to write... God Almighty can do it in Lines!
lilgiant84 5 years ago
That's it? Thats all you have?
smsavage32 4 years ago 9
You are denying reality. It means you are at least partially mentally ill. Religion is fact and the Koran is no science book.
baconeater 5 years ago 3
The Koran doesn't agree with evolution. In other words it is not a science book and Muslim apologists who say it is are laughable.
baconeater 5 years ago
Phil, I note with some amusement that several of your detractors have accused you of being arrogant and self serving. I ask you, what could possibly be more arrogant and myopic than the notion that the entire universe, inconceivably vast and ancient, exists solely for the benefit and contemplation of mankind in his brief and fleeting blip of an existence therein? The day WILL come when we evolve beyond the need to derive answers and comfort from mythologies and superstitions.
Leatherup 5 years ago
smoking isnt good for you old man :P its clogging ur brain and making you stupid -_-' i feel bad for you. YOU MAKE ATHEISTS CRY!
solarbuu 5 years ago
To all muslims out there who are citing this geologist clearly misquoting his real thought. Do you really need such tricks? Are your arguments so weak and trembling that you need to turn to manipulating scientists in this way? I'm surprised, I thought you had better arguments than that. Luckily for you, I'm certain there are far more intelligent true muslims out there, who won't play games and tricks, and with whom a better understanding of each other is possible.
schrodcat 5 years ago
So where are they? Are there some on youtube?
theinquisitor 5 years ago
He is right, NO DOCTRINE tells us of the big bang, The big bang remains a THEORY, The qurans explination of the big bang is one VAUGUE line which tells us of the seperation of the heaveans and earth which to my knoweldge is flawwed because matter did not exist before the BB, also earth was born a considerable amount of time after the big bang the theory states.Also the quote could be tlakin exclusively about the earth not all the matter in the universe.
theboy01 5 years ago
Great, I'm glad I have pleased you for once :)
TheCount4 5 years ago
Your absolutely right, I'm not a judge or jury, but I can see a liar. Plus you called me the same thing, so I can say it back to you. You find me guilty but you are not the whole jury.
TheCount4 5 years ago
Just because you call someone irrational doesn't mean that person is. Stop all of your assumptions and labeling. Some people simply require more proofs. Everyone is different. I personally know people who have converted to Islam and required little evidence and others who required more. And YES, pride, arrogance and egos do exist and can hinder some people Phil. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
BonsaiSky, if you are merely basing your life on a different definition of what proof is, and you consider that religions are proven by your definition, then do you believe that every religion is true, even the ones that say that their religion is the only one. Are they all true? At most one is right. How do you select which one is true, it's a cruel lottery.
theinquisitor 5 years ago
theinquisitor. Mankind needs a religion because how do you decide what is good and what is bad? Some things that are acceptable here are deemed as unacceptable practices. God has to decide and the Qur'an obtains all the best of all religions. The Qur'an is the only Holy book on earth that withstand criticism. We are all arguing about translations; a choice of words. Nothing is like the original and I implore you to actual look into it further without accepting Phil as your source of knowledge.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Unacceptable practices. Like gay sex right? Yeah god made making love to your partner a sin if he happens to have the wrong meat between his legs. Like the all powerful creator of the universe would give a shit. It's ridiculous.
You don't know that god wrote the quran, you were just told that and it's just what it says in the book. That's it. The quran is a BOOK. Ink on paper. You can't prove it's anything other than that. It's pathetic.
theinquisitor 5 years ago
Why are we discussing anything when you haven't even read the book in question? Read the Qur'an, you may be pleasantly surprised. No need to get rude please. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
The religious do not pause to discuss science with no understanding whatsoever of even what science is, and you speak of arrogance. Your belief in the quran has no basis and you speak of assumptions. The claims of theists are that they know god's will, and they know this truth to be absolute, but if you knew god's will you would be a god. THAT is arrogance. THAT is assumption.
theinquisitor 5 years ago 2
Why don't you just check it out for yourself. What do you have to lose. The Qur'an is not a book of science. It is a book of signs that contain verses of a scientific nature. Concepts that was not known in the 7th century. I am not arrogant and would appreciate it if you stop assuming things. Either the Qur'an is the word of God or it isn't. Read it for yourself objectively. I happen to believe it is. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Haha, you can't ask questions and then say just leave it :) - It is not like one word can have 100 different meanings, its not like that. I mean its explaining the big bang in a nutshell. They probably tried to envision it but that concept or idea wasn't even around in the 7th century so it was hard for them to grasp. I will check on the commentary from classical scholars to see what they say about that verse. I'll let you know what I find. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Simply because the Qur'an is a book for all times. If it was the last revelation then it should consist of verses not fully understood at the time when it was revealed only to be understood properly later. That's it. I am being rational and that is a reasonable explanation. It is true that some Arabic terms have various meanings but it is not my fault there aren't enough English terms to fully capture what the Qur'an is saying. We'll have to agree to disagree mate. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Actually that is not true. Your way of discrediting Islam and religion in general enforces your own belief that there is no God.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
What Muslims are not in agreement? The Qur'an is not a science book. It obtains verses that make scientific claims in simple terms as we will never completely understand the complexity of life. As you say Muslims are blinded, I would say that the atheists are blinded by their own egos. Most atheists in my humble opinion have a superiority complex. We don't know everything and never will. Life is simply too intricate, detailed and complex to not have a Creator. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
What would be wrong with a script? Many times people have prepared statements they read. What is wrong with that? Look, insinuating that these people who make statements supporting the Qur'an as being on the Saudi payroll is conjecture and nothing more in my humble opinion. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
I can't believe how much you lie Phil and how much all these idiots believe you. You are rotten because we all know that you made that up because go watch vittorio new video which he has a link to see Kroner in a video, so try nic phil you got caught lying again.
TheCount4 5 years ago
Good video, Phil. I enjoyed it tremendously. Research is a great tool, and often under used by those that make claims.
howtofoldsoup 5 years ago
The Quran may not give an indepth explanation as to the big bang theory, but it certainly does enligten us about the evilness of alligators.
braveorslave 5 years ago
We were making the point that you do indeed have a Hamza Yusuf-like goatee. Of course, you know HY, the Sunni Muslim American scholar. Maybe you can work on having a full, long beard like a Shii Ayatallah. :D
Polite430 5 years ago
Chris, with all due respect, I disagree. Saudi oil money has nothing to do with anything. Vittorio provided the video backing his quote. Whether there was more said that would dispute the quote is another issue. Vittorio did not lie and if it was a misunderstanding then it was not intentional misleading on his part. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Arrogance. That's what can make a man reject. Some people require more proofs than others and with some people no matter how many proofs you give will not believe. Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Hey Mister Atheist Man! why do have a goatee like Hamza Yusuf!!!!
Polite430 5 years ago
Hey Mister Atheist Man! why do have a goatee like Hamza Yusuf!!!!
Polite430 5 years ago
Hey Mister Atheist Man! why do have a goatee like Hamza Yusuf!!!!
Polite430 5 years ago
Not being lazy, why re-invent the wheel. I'll contact Jeremias. Thanks.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Can you just paste the website URL here or mail it to me please. With peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
Victorio has the link to the the video of Kroner's statement. Please check it out. By the way, what is that email address? Peace.
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
I sent Alfred Kröner´s URL to vittorio203. I will not put it in any comment section, because I do not want Kröner to be spammed to.
Jeremias1111 5 years ago
look the whole point of this is mute, even if an islamic scholar had the idea for an expanding universe or even the idea of a sigular beginning, aka big bang 1400 years ago then it would be just that,
a human with an idea, shock horror whats so mystical about that?
I mean we were building pyramids 4,000 years ago so its not too much of a stretch to believe that humans actually have brains and imaginations.
watchtheskies 5 years ago
Their argument is that an invisible all loving god is in the sky. How can science help them to prove this?
Mjhavok 5 years ago
Heh - not all Muslims are bad, at least they make the ugly women cover their faces so the rest of us don't have to look at them.
VOETSEK111 5 years ago
That was rude. Why would you say such things? You have to respect the womb that bore you, no?
BonsaiSky 5 years ago
You're right, it was rude. I retract and apologise unreservedly.
VOETSEK111 5 years ago
My pleasure!
Jeremias1111 5 years ago
Hey Phil. Do I need to tell you how many stars you get?
phaexus 5 years ago
3:58 sorry phil ... ahm.. but YOU kindda walked right into it!! LOL
teabagdeer 5 years ago
hey Phil, Excellent video, a point most eloquently made,
you seem to have an almost identical library to mine!
I just read an interesting book written by Richard Wiseman called "the luck factor" it gives the rational skeptics viewpoint on why some people seem to be luckier than others, very interesting stuff,
hey, keep up the fight and maybe the human race will finally grow up.
watchtheskies 5 years ago
Checkmate.
Thanks Philhellenes and Jeremias1111, outstanding effort.
5/5 and all that.
ashboxtoo 5 years ago
Phil the destroyer of myths! Vittorio the king of idiots!
xJediHowieX 5 years ago
exactly!!!
firetosvm 4 years ago 6
He shoots he scores. The final whistle has gone. The victor is PHIL.
Mjhavok 5 years ago
Dude what are all those books. Hard to see some cause of shine.
Mjhavok 5 years ago
Loving them there cuts Phil! Who taught you that? It's fabtastic.
ourben 5 years ago
1.you talk crap. 2. where is the evidence of this supposed email. 3. what about the other scientists i mentioned?
vittorio203 5 years ago
I've always wondered why the Muslims I've seen recently (TheCount4 and Vittorio203) either don't show themselves on their video or they highly censor their image. Seems to me they don't want you reading their body language. Body language can be VERY telling as to what a person is thinking versus what they are saying. (like lie detecting)
Hentakkun 5 years ago
I agree, i've noticed that too.
willmed 5 years ago
Oh my... so owned.
VegasBatman 5 years ago
Medieval Arabic Astronomy is well known because of this. They adhered to the Ptolemaic system, though they improved it a lot.
So they though the Earth is in the middle of the Universe, Moon, Sun, planets and stars are revolving attached to spheres around it.
Jeremias1111 5 years ago
Well done, it was quite obvious to me that they were taken out of context, and distorted simply by objectively reading sites like quranicstudies dot com among others, the analogy I made yesterday of a scientist saying it was impossible for moses to have parted the red sea, and a Christian saying his statement had confirmed it had been done by god is quite fitting.
TheOptimisticSkeptic 5 years ago
True, a lot is lost. But the remaining medieval Arabic manuscripts are estimated at 250.000, in the field of astronomy its around 10.000.
The works of many Arabic astronomers had been translated to European languages anyway because the precision of their calculations was unmatched in Europe.
Jeremias1111 5 years ago
man I wish I could see Vittorio's face when he sees this
I'm sure it'd be just priceless
Keep up the good work, old man.
Dashes000 5 years ago
Prost, Herr Kröner. Und dich auch, Phil.
RobnJake 5 years ago
What! Creationists lying and taking fabricated quotes out of context, that's unheard of!, I'm shocked!.
Good job, I considered emailing Kröner myself for a while.
CauchySchwarz 5 years ago